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Computer Science Enrollment Up 10% Last Fall

CmdrTaco posted more than 3 years ago | from the turing-isn't-complete-yet dept.

Education 173

dcblogs writes "Computer science enrollments increased 10% last fall, according to the Computer Research Association. At the peak of the dot-com era, the average enrollment in computer science departments was 398, but by 2007 it had declined in half. Enrollments now average 253 students per department. Enrollments have now increased in the last three years. The CRA's annual survey tracks students enrolled at Ph.D.-granting institutions. Compared to the dot-com era, the interest today in computer science may be 'a more reasoned response to a field that seems positioned at the hub of just about every national priority.'"

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173 comments

IT'S A TRAP! (3, Funny)

bmacs27 (1314285) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794432)

Ackbar said it best.

Re:IT'S A TRAP! (1)

kiehlster (844523) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794888)

Actually, this really isn't a joke in this context. I can definitely see history repeating itself. I joined the roster of CS students during a period when Computer Science was suddenly a hot topic only to find that, come graduation, those hot jobs all dried up. I guess I should put my umbrella up for the coming mass of inexperienced job applicants. The buzz is a trap, I tell you.

Re:IT'S A TRAP! (1)

bmacs27 (1314285) | more than 3 years ago | (#35795596)

I wasn't joking. Honestly, if you want a job, become a Mech E. Talk about central to all the problems we currently face... It seems every time I think my CS degree should be good for something useful, I realize that making useful things often has very little to do with computational complexity, or operating system design. Basically everyone needs to be able to program, which is why some cursory programming should be broadly required with other basic skills like writing and math. That might do something to prick the balloon.

Script Kiddies (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35794434)

Computer Science drop out rate will increase.

Re:Script Kiddies (1)

Gutboy (587531) | more than 3 years ago | (#35795722)

I'd be more interested in seeing the graduation rate. I see a lot of people on programming forums who have no business being in a CS program.

Re:Script Kiddies (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35796508)

In many state schools who are looking hard to keep enrolments up, this will not happen. Instead the program gets watered down and watered down to keep students in the programs. I know of more than a few recent graduates who not only can not program, they struggle to do even minimal work with GUIs and lots of help. To be fair, I also know of graduates from the same program who are doing well in tough graduate programs and serious jobs.

The criminal potential is amazing (2, Interesting)

countertrolling (1585477) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794440)

After seeing what Goldman Sachs can do with a computer, who wouldn't sign up?

Meh, not so much (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35794762)

After seeing what Goldman Sachs can do with a computer, who wouldn't sign up?

The computers (and the people who programmed them) were just patsies. It was the lawyers and lobbyists that let Goldman do what it did.

Re:The criminal potential is amazing (1)

geekmux (1040042) | more than 3 years ago | (#35795030)

After seeing what Goldman Sachs can do with a computer, who wouldn't sign up?

Uh, after looking at what Goldman Sachs did and got away with, what "criminal" activity are you referring to? To them, it was merely a rather large business decision, nothing more.

For further clarification, my sig speaks volumes.

Re:The criminal potential is amazing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35796536)

After seeing what Goldman Sachs can do with a computer, who wouldn't sign up?

Uh, after looking at what Goldman Sachs did and got away with, what "criminal" activity are you referring to? To them, it was merely a rather large business decision, nothing more.

For further clarification, my sig speaks volumes.

I don't think he used the word 'criminal' anywhere...

Did CS departments start teaching anything useful? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35794458)

Are there any useful skills being taught in these departments or is it still just an arbitrary requirement to have a CS degree when applying for jobs?

Re:Did CS departments start teaching anything usef (1)

geoffrobinson (109879) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794634)

I'm not going to say that a CS degree is worthless, but pretty much all of college is for employment.

Re:Did CS departments start teaching anything usef (1, Interesting)

mini me (132455) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794674)

A $100,000 marketing campaign will land you far more jobs than a $100,000 degree. If you are only in college to find a job later in life, you're doing it wrong.

Re:Did CS departments start teaching anything usef (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35796688)

Some of us went to college to learn how to raise funds for our $100,000, marketing campaign.

Sure: DataStructures is one, DB/SQL's another (0, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35794668)

See subject-line: Those are 2 that are extremely useful in today's "MIS/IS/IT" world (the most prevalent coding going on ever, because EVERYONE's INFORMATION IS DIFFERENT & PROCESSED DIFFERENTLY, often using diff. tools - you will do conversion of data + DB work, like mad...):

"Are there any useful skills being taught in these departments or is it still just an arbitrary requirement to have a CS degree when applying for jobs?" - by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 12, @11:46AM (#35794458)

DB work? It's everywhere... SQL is DEFINITELY YOUR BUDDY! DataStructure is more "theoreticals" but... it shows you tricks with data & algorithms that WORK for performance mostly (sorts especially & which ones are BEST on which size of data etc., for example).

See above, for just a couple of what I felt are EXTREMELY VALUABLE COURSES I took for a CSC degree... For me, lately?

Learning stuff like PyThon lately for me has been a godsend too (this is on my own though, to do various tasks like "screen scrapes" off the web of data)...

I come out of the C/C++/Assembly/ObjectPascal-Delphi/VB world of the mid 1990's, & things are changing.

To do string processing work, using those language's native string processing (Delphi & VB's rock, but pale compared to REGEX ability for data conversions imo @ least) minus REGEX's, as I used to in those languages I noted?

Like trying to dig down a mountain with a spoon... REGEX gave me DYNAMITE to do it (faster & efficient, since Python's written iirc, in C++).

Yes, those other languages NOW have REGEX libs/dlls/toolkit addons (for a while now, but not when I used them @ least, or I wasn't aware of it in the 1990's there was).

Much of what you need, you have to pay attention to job want ads for... & what you see being used a LOT? You get into... it's THAT simple.

I never personally REALLY used the math they make you take (discrete & calc being prime examples) in MIS/IS/IT work (databasing, what I primarily do since 1994 professionally) but... they DO help you understand that you take a problem, bust it into manageable parts, & work on each till the WHOLE THING, works.

I suppose were I into say, game programming & AI, plus scientific or engineering related work, I'd need to use them... but, in db work? Heh, never... never over 17++ yrs. now coding as a pro...

APK

P.S.=> STILL: I'll NEVER knock academia - They teach you things there, IN PRINCIPALS ALONE, that will save you years of mistakes & "reinventing the wheel" + possibly, poorly. Programming's NOT about SYNTAX - it's a SYSTEM OF THOUGHT! apk

moderation (5, Funny)

mevets (322601) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794934)

Really we need more categories.
+1 incoherent
+1 too many ellipses
+1 imaginative use of mixed case
+1 disturbing
+1 peculiar
+1 could be charlie sheen

UR OffTopic /. has no english critique forum here (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35795420)

So please: Try to stay ON TOPIC (there's no question that YOU, are)... & again: /. HAS NO SUCH FORUMS SECTION HERE (on English writing style critique, you wannabe PHD in English, off-topic troll, lol!):

"Really we need more categories.
+1 incoherent
+1 too many ellipses
+1 imaginative use of mixed case
+1 disturbing
+1 peculiar
+1 could be charlie sheen"
- by mevets (322601) on Tuesday April 12, @12:12PM (#35794934)

A list of suggestions just for you:

1.) IF you don't like it? DON'T READ IT!

2.) IF it's above your head/understanding? Again, see #1...

3.) When you get a PHD in English, then, & perhaps ONLY THEN, would you even be REMOTELY worth listening to (not that it'd matter - this is just a forums, not business correspondence or a legal instrument, for Pete's sake!)

4.) When you get your PHD in Psychiatry, & a license to practice it, with years-to-decades of professional hands-on experience in it? Then, perhaps only then, can you libel me as you have via insinuations that I am "crazy" etc./et al...

5.) Learn to read - Get "Hooked on Phonics", you need it.

6.) PLENTY OF PEOPLE, by the hundreds, have modded up my postings (mostly ON TECHNICAL issues no less). See list (where you are outnumbered in your "mere opinion" by roughly 200++:1 ratios):

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Roughly 200++ of them & I post as AC (hard to get even +1, as /. hides our posts):

+5 'modded up' posts by "yours truly" (8):

http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1139485&cid=26975021 [slashdot.org]

http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1884922&cid=34350102 [slashdot.org]

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+4 'modded up' posts by "yours truly" (4):

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=161862&cid=13531817 [slashdot.org]

http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=167071&cid=13931198 [slashdot.org]

http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1290967&cid=28571315 [slashdot.org]

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+3 'modded up' posts by "yours truly" (6):

http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=155172&cid=13007974 [slashdot.org]

http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=166850&cid=13914137 [slashdot.org]

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http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1021873&cid=25681261 [slashdot.org]

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+2 'modded up' posts by "yours truly" (30):

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http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1361585&cid=29360367 [slashdot.org]

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HOSTS MOD UP -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1490078&cid=30555632 [slashdot.org]

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+1 'modded up' posts by "yours truly" (112) & we AC's start at ZERO, not 1 or 2 like registered users on /. do:

http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1719570&cid=32907418 [slashdot.org]

http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1530066&cid=30965192 [slashdot.org]

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http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1842764&cid=34046376 [slashdot.org]

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BIASED JOURNALISM SELLS MORE MAGAZINES http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1638094&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=32063412 [slashdot.org]

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http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2040490&cid=35508400 [slashdot.org]

LINUX WENT DOWN 2x in LESS THAN 1 YEAR @ London Stock Exchange http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1999478&cid=35231358 [slashdot.org]

DO YOUR BEST WORK OUR YOUNG MENS LIVES RIDE ON IT http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1898806&cid=34472826 [slashdot.org]

APK MS SECURITY in 2011 3x less bug than Linux in kernel alone and entire dev suite has only 1 more (7 total bugs):

http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2059420&cid=35656126 [slashdot.org]

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* THE HOSTS FILE GROUP 20++ THUSFAR (from +5 -> +1 DESCENDING):

HOSTS MOD UP -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1461288&cid=30273506 [slashdot.org]
HOSTS FILE MOD UP FOR ANDROID MALWARE -> http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1930156&cid=34713952 [slashdot.org]
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HOSTS MOD UP -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1592276&cid=31583826 [slashdot.org]
HOSTS MOD UP -> http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1913212&cid=34576182 [slashdot.org]
HOSTS MOD UP -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1907528&cid=34532574 [slashdot.org] (someone copied my older HOSTS posts for it & posted as me, minus bolding & altered title though, giving away they copied me stuff & copy/pasted it, while impersonating me)
HOSTS MOD UP -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1891254&cid=34403798 [slashdot.org]
HOSTS MOD UP -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1905218&cid=34514626 [slashdot.org]
HOSTS MOD UP -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1907528&cid=34535412 [slashdot.org]
HOSTS MOD UP vs. HAIRYFEET TOO -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1916240&cid=34612834 [slashdot.org]
HOSTS FILE MOD UP FOR ANDROID MALWARE -> http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1930156&cid=34714024 [slashdot.org]
HOSTS MOD UP with facebook known bad sites blocked -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1924892&cid=34670128 [slashdot.org]
HOSTS MOD UP http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2059420&cid=35654066 [slashdot.org]
HOSTS MOD UP -> http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1725068&cid=32960808 [slashdot.org]
HOSTS MOD UP ZEUSTRACKER -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2059420&cid=35654066 [slashdot.org]

---

7.) You are off-topic, period.

APK

P.S.=> What is it w/ the trolls around here lately? They aren't even GOOD @ trolling... Trolls, especially OFF-TOPIC ones with "delusions of grandeur" of being psychoanalysts - They're just "too, Too, TOO EASY - just '2EZ'" to "put in their places"... as off-topic unqualified wannabe "/. SiDeWaLk ShRiNKs", & just easy to get the best of, everytime, too easily & facts do that, easily, per my list above (as to my writing style being not only readable, but modded upwards MANY times by others here)... apk

Re:UR OffTopic /. has no english critique forum he (1)

hoggoth (414195) | more than 3 years ago | (#35795562)

Heh...

Mr. Big: "So, Mr. APK, I see here on your resume that you've got plenty of +5 moderations on Slashdot... We could really use a man like you here..."

That wasn't "good enough"? Ok, see this instead: (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35796230)

"My Name is Ozymandias: King of Kings - Look upon my works, ye mighty, & DESPAIR..."

----

Windows NT Magazine (now Windows IT Pro) April 1997 "BACK OFFICE PERFORMANCE" issue, page 61

(&, for work done for EEC Systems/SuperSpeed.com on PAID CONTRACT (writing portions of their SuperCache program increasing its performance by up to 40% via my work) albeit, for their SuperDisk & HOW TO APPLY IT, took them to a finalist position @ MS Tech Ed, two years in a row 2000-2002, in its HARDEST CATEGORY: SQLServer Performance Enhancement).

WINDOWS MAGAZINE, 1997, "Top Freeware & Shareware of the Year" issue page 210, #1/first entry in fact (my work is there)

PC-WELT FEB 1998 - page 84, again, my work is featured there

WINDOWS MAGAZINE, WINTER 1998 - page 92, insert section, MUST HAVE WARES, my work is again, there

PC-WELT FEB 1999 - page 83, again, my work is featured there

CHIP Magazine 7/99 - page 100, my work is there

GERMAN PC BOOK, Data Becker publisher "PC Aufrusten und Repairen" 2000, where my work is contained in it

HOT SHAREWARE Numero 46 issue, pg. 54 (PC ware mag from Spain), 2001 my work is there, first one featured, yet again!

Also, a British PC Mag in 2002 for many utilities I wrote, saw it @ BORDERS BOOKS but didn't buy it... by that point, I had moved onto other areas in this field besides coding only...

Being paid for an article that made me money over @ PCPitstop in 2008 for writing up a guide that has people showing NO VIRUSES/SPYWARES & other screwups, via following its point, such as THRONKA sees here -> http://www.xtremepccentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=ee926d913b81bf6d63c3c7372fd2a24c&t=28430&page=3 [xtremepccentral.com]

Lastly, lately (this year)?

It's also been myself helping out the folks at the UltraDefrag64 project (a 64-bit defragger for Windows), in showing them code for how to do Process Priority Control @ the GUI usermode/ring 3/rpl 3 level in their program (good one too), & being credited for it by their lead dev & his team... see here -> http://ultradefrag.sourceforge.net/handbook/Credits.html [sourceforge.net]

AND lastly: http://g-off.net/software/a-python-repeatable-threadingtimer-class [g-off.net] where I got other programmer's work WORKING RIGHT (in PyThon no less, which I just started learning only 2 week ago no less) by showing them how to use a "Dummy Proxy Function" as I call it, to make a RepeatTimer class (Thread sub-class really) to take PARAMETERIZED FUNCTIONS, ala:

def apkthreadlaunch():
                  getnortonsafeweb(sAPKFileName = "APK_1_NortonSafeWeb360Extracted.txt".rstrip())

a = RepeatTimer(900, apkthreadlaunch) # 900 is 15 minutes... apk

Where it was NOT working for many folks there, before (submitted to the maker of the RepeatTimer class no less, & yes, it WORKS!)

----

What do I have to say about that much above? I can't say it any better, than this was stated already (from the greatest book of all time, the "tech manual for life" imo):

"But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me." - Corinthians Chapter 10, Verse 10

(And, because I got LUCKY to have been exposed to some really GREAT classmates, professors, & colleagues on the job over time as well)

---

Yes, for decades now? I out there helping others, EVEN OTHER PROGRAMMERS, fix their messes... amongst other things (like doing well in freeware/shareware + commercial code to my credit/name also, & far more in respected written publications in the art & sciences of computing) instead of "off topic trolling others" as you do, troll.

(Even the "great ones" like Dr. Mark Russinovich of Microsoft have take correction from me, on his PageDefrag.exe program, which was RIDDLED with hardcodes which I showed him not only HOW to correct it in bootup by recovery console mode operations, but also WHY (and getting the best of him on Memory defragmentation later @ Windows IT Pro mag forums whom he writes for, where I proved that Clearmem.exe (the 1st memory optimizer as they are commonly called) & I wrote up the 1st GUI model, which FIXES CRASHES & STALLS in 32-bit Exchange Server... to which he thanked me for via email no less on ALL counts!)

Would you like my resume & how many times I've worked in the FORTUNE 100-500 too??

APK

P.S.=> So, in the end, now that that's "all said & aside": Well - The day you can show us ALL that you've done more in computing (that's only a SMALL PARTIAL LIST of my favs. no less) & before I did, to greater acclaim + more times? Is the day you can even BEGIN to talk the way you have to myself... apk

Re:UR OffTopic /. has no english critique forum he (1)

Skidborg (1585365) | more than 3 years ago | (#35795872)

Also:

+ 1 Overly Dramatic

How are you "on topic"? Explain that please, troll (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35796364)

Would you care to explain to us all reading HOW that is "on topic" here per this article today?

Also:

  + 1 Overly Dramatic" - by Skidborg (1585365) on Tuesday April 12, @01:05PM (#35795872)

?

APK

P.S.=> As again, this thread's NOT about "English writing style critiques" (&, there's NO SUCH SECTION on /. FORUMS, little "clue" for you there - Some "FYI-New NEWS", 4U!)... & nor is it a critique of "Drama" either, troll... You are blatantly off-topic trolling & wasting your life in a juvenile manner...apk

Re:How are you "on topic"? Explain that please, tr (1)

Skidborg (1585365) | more than 3 years ago | (#35796672)

I suppose a large ham like yourself can't help but feed the trolls.

Yes - A "ne'er-do-well" troll, like U, is just a (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35796778)

A waste of LIFE itself.

"I suppose a large ham like yourself can't help but feed the trolls." - by Skidborg (1585365) on Tuesday April 12, @02:01PM (#35796672)

So, you show us all reading here that you've done MORE than I have, to greater acclaim in respected written publications in the art & sciences of computing, BEFORE I did & more times, before you give me any guff...

See, because the simple fact remains that, until you do?

You're only showing us ALL you're a "ne'er-do-well" & an off topic troll (who clearly has no accomplishments to his name/credit vs. an only PARTIAL LIST of my favorites from 1996- the present in the field of computing).

APK

P.S.=> So, go try your "troll games" on someone else, or better yet - get an education & degree in CSC or CIS, & try to do something WORTHWHILE with your wasted & miserable life, instead of trying to ruin others' day for them!

ME? You can't do that to ME... I just laugh @ "the trolling off topic likes of you" & publicly EMBARASS you as I have, easily... just "too, Too, TOO EASILY - just to 'EZ'ily", in fact

(Because I & others here reading certainly don't see you producing a greater list of accomplishments than I can & have & earlier than I have to better acclaim/notoriety, vs. your off topic b.s. & trolling of myself!)... apk

Re:moderation (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35795566)

Haha, you have dared to respond to the famed apk! Prepare for war.

http://jeremyreimer.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=4128&highlight=&sid=3b77713758aff7096445753a63adab63 [jeremyreimer.com]

Reimer: I busted U 4 trolling me as AC this week: (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35795868)

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2074342&cid=35762566 [slashdot.org]

and here as well as proof of what I stated in the URL above:

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2074342&cid=35768352 [slashdot.org]

So, you can go away now, now that you've been further exposed in your BLATANT stupidity & off-topic trolling, as per usual (by your own mistakes & yes, misdeeds), such as this one, where you ADMIT you impersonated me @ the Windows IT Pro forums no less (where you stalked & harassed me further at years ago):

"Anyway the "APK" registered here is just an affectionate clone of the original. In fact I prefer him to the original." - Jeremy Reimer - March 25, 2005

So, you & your pals from arstechnica were caught in impersonating me, editing posts I did do (@ arstechnica) & FAR more, see below...

APK

P.S.=> Lastly - I'm sure you don't want the fact exposed you've trolled me & stalked me online before, and were busted by your ISP/BSP for email harassing me, IMPERSONATING ME on your personal OSY/Pegasus "forums" - what a joke it is, you self-published "Lulu LUUUuuuZer", lol... where your ISP/BSP Shaw put You on a tracking ticket, & forced removal of parts of your website for libel of myself also - which you then went to a diff. hosting provider & just started it up again... (where your website and your friend's Jay Little were removed in their ENTIRETY or parts, for libel & even DEATH THREATS directed my way, & with help from a Det. Felton of the B.C. RMCP where you live, in British Columbia Canada)... apk

Re:Reimer: I busted U 4 trolling me as AC this wee (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35796066)

I'm not Jeremy Reimer, just another AC who had a good laugh at that crazy thread.

Ahem: "BULLSHIT"... apk (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35796580)

"I'm not Jeremy Reimer, just another AC who had a good laugh at that crazy thread. - by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 12, @01:17PM (#35796066)

How many posts would you LIKE from this very website alone, in fact, where I can show you that ARSTECHNICA TROLLS like Jeremy Reimer & others have trolled me here?

Here's one such clear example, in fact:

http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1300193&cid=28678549 [slashdot.org]

From over a year agom here... & I haven't been to arstechnica since 2001, & yet, those trolling, stalking, libelling & impersonating others DOLTS do that to me?

Please... & simply because I asked them ALL a simple question back in 2000-2001 of:

"What has any of you EVER done that was well noted in respected written publication in the art & sciences of computing?"

When they gave me guff...

(& not a SINGLE ONE of them ever had such a set of things to their credit & BY THAT POINT? I had nearly a dozen such items to my name, like MsTechEd 2000-2002 finalist placement for my work & techniques in its hardest category - SQLServer Performance Enhancement + commercial code to my credit/name for it too on PAID contract w/ SuperSpeed.com)

LOL, that even ended up with a forums being created for their "arsware" (arsehole ware)!

So, later, I even corrected 2 of their coders on various techniques!

---

1.) Coolmon needed err trapping because it FAILED if a user turns off "performance counters" (Not using them? Don't waste CPU or other forms of IO + memory generating them, for best performance) & I told its coder how to do THAT much regarding registry performance counters & he did EXACTLY what I said to do, the worst way, because a registry read & if-then would have been better or using errtraps even) - this happened over @ MajorGeeks.com in fact... & they "stalked me" there, but ended up using MY IDEAS to fix their busted crap!

2.) The late Aryeh Holzer of SETISpy, & how to do LOW PROCESS PRIORITY THREAD CONTROL in his app while it runs in the background, minimized (he is dead though, literally (too bad... nice guy))

---

So, that said? Well - The "arseholes" are not ALL bogus, but Jeremy Reimer certainly is... no questions asked!

Fact is - I prove that ALL thru this exchange with you trolls in fact, many times, with valid proofs.

(Where the blatant FAKE & self-published "Lulu LUUUuuZer" Jeremy Reimer, lol, as well as email harasser, impersonator of others like myself online, & unqualified fake/charlatan in the field of computing with no degrees to his credit in this art & science or REAL "hands-on" years-to-decades working in the trenches either to his name/credit gets "SHOT DOWN IN FLAMES" for his bogus stupidities over time, especially vs. myself, repeatedly!)

APK

P.S.=> Try being "on topic" for once though, troll... thank you! apk

sooo (1)

mevets (322601) | more than 3 years ago | (#35795946)

APK is a travesty generator? Does it script ./ to auto-reply to posts? Its kinda funny, and I wonder if we could replace Charlie Sheen with a similar program...

You're STILL "off topic" troll... apk (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35796652)

Explain how this quote from you, is "on topic", please:

"APK is a travesty generator? Does it script ./ to auto-reply to posts? Its kinda funny, and I wonder if we could replace Charlie Sheen with a similar program..." - by mevets (322601) on Tuesday April 12, @01:09PM (#35795946)

Then again, a "ne'er-do-well" juvenile off topic troll such as yourself has nothing better to do, because you're a miserable waste of life...

APK

Re:Sure: DataStructures is one, DB/SQL's another (1)

NoSleepDemon (1521253) | more than 3 years ago | (#35795432)

Sounds like they also taught you a little bit about necromancy.

Necromancy? Not trying to "raise the dead" here! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35795640)

"Sounds like they also taught you a little bit about necromancy." - by NoSleepDemon (1521253) on Tuesday April 12, @12:40PM (#35795432)

I don't get it, but see subject-line above... lol!

Plus - since you mentioned "magic" (ala sorcery, not mere "prestidigitation")?

I am not a magician... I am more of a "wizard"!

(Per the film "The Prestige")

Yes, & when you're a coder? Yes, you CAN say that... how/why??

Because as Michael Caine put it so eloquently in "The Prestige":

"Oh, no sir: This wasn't built by a magician - this was built, by a wizard (a man that can actually DO, what magicians only PRETEND to do)" - Michael Caine in the film "The Prestige"

See that EXACT scene here, in regards to "Angier's Machine":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yF5kgtyuFd4&feature=related [youtube.com]

From 5:45 onwards... GREAT FLICK, by-the-by!

The reason I can state that, is simple (having BEEN both people over time in the art & science of computing):

Programmers INVENT what techs/networkers/users merely USE & pretend with said inventions that THEY are the ones "doing the magic"... & therein, lies the DIFFERENCE!

APK

P.S.=> Here endeth the lesson... apk

does it auto reply? (1)

mevets (322601) | more than 3 years ago | (#35796080)

test

Re:does it auto reply? (1)

Skidborg (1585365) | more than 3 years ago | (#35796720)

Bummer, eh?

Re:Sure: DataStructures is one, DB/SQL's another (1)

Sectoid_Dev (232963) | more than 3 years ago | (#35795464)

I'd recommend a minor in written communication while I was at it.

200++:1 odds are against your "mere opinion" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35795980)

So, please: First, won't you show us proof you have a PHD in English or communications to YOUR name/credit, ok?

(NOT that it'd matter: This is just a forums, not legal correspondence or a paper for a grade in ENGLISH - of which slashdot has no such "english writing critique" section, mind you, making YOU, off topic, clearly)

However, since you offer your "mere unqualified opinion" on that note, off topic trolling though it is?

Ok, read these modded up posts of mine (which put away your off topic trolling b.s. easily, because others thought QUITE otherwise of my posts here on /., due to upward moderations):

160++ of them

+5 'modded up' posts by "yours truly" (8):

http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1139485&cid=26975021 [slashdot.org]

http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1884922&cid=34350102 [slashdot.org]

http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1872982&cid=34264190 [slashdot.org]

http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1139485&cid=26974507 [slashdot.org]

http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=170545&cid=14210206 [slashdot.org]

http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=175774&cid=14610147 [slashdot.org]

http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1806946&cid=33777976 [slashdot.org]

http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1901826&cid=34490450 [slashdot.org]

----

+4 'modded up' posts by "yours truly" (4):

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=161862&cid=13531817 [slashdot.org]

http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=167071&cid=13931198 [slashdot.org]

http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1290967&cid=28571315 [slashdot.org]

----

+3 'modded up' posts by "yours truly" (6):

http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=155172&cid=13007974 [slashdot.org]

http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=166850&cid=13914137 [slashdot.org]

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=175857&cid=14615222 [slashdot.org]

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=273931&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&cid=20291847 [slashdot.org]

http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1021873&cid=25681261 [slashdot.org]

----

+2 'modded up' posts by "yours truly" (30):

http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=158231&cid=13257227 [slashdot.org]

http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1361585&cid=29360367 [slashdot.org]

http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=158310&cid=13263898 [slashdot.org]

http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=158231&cid=13257227 [slashdot.org]

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=290711&cid=20506147 [slashdot.org]

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=245971&cid=19760473 [slashdot.org]

http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=416702&cid=22026982 [slashdot.org]

http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=174759&cid=14538593 [slashdot.org]

http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=233779&cid=19020329 [slashdot.org]

http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=970939&cid=25093275 [slashdot.org]

http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=978035&cid=25176955 [slashdot.org]

http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=978035&cid=25176841 [slashdot.org]

http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1001489&cid=25441395 [slashdot.org]

http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1010923&cid=25549351 [slashdot.org]

http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1021733&cid=25675515 [slashdot.org]

http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1135717&cid=26941781 [slashdot.org]

http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1143349&cid=27012231 [slashdot.org]

http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1162247&cid=27211247 [slashdot.org]

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=978035&cid=25176841 [slashdot.org]

http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1309763&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=28768721 [slashdot.org]

http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1218837&cid=27787281 [slashdot.org]

http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1497268&cid=30649722 [slashdot.org]

HOSTS MOD UP -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1490078&cid=30555632 [slashdot.org]

http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1754650&cid=33255474 [slashdot.org]

http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1957608&cid=34933062 [slashdot.org]

http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1973914&cid=35056454 [slashdot.org]

----

+1 'modded up' posts by "yours truly" (112) & we AC's start at ZERO, not 1 or 2 like registered users on /. do:

http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1719570&cid=32907418 [slashdot.org]

http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1530066&cid=30965192 [slashdot.org]

http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1686094&cid=32581292 [slashdot.org]

http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1842764&cid=34046376 [slashdot.org]

http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1546446&cid=31106612 [slashdot.org]

http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1546446&cid=31109564 [slashdot.org]

http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1618508&cid=31847246 [slashdot.org]

http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1511346&cid=30776562 [slashdot.org]

http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1314993&cid=28827429 [slashdot.org]

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1504756&cid=30711074 [slashdot.org]

http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1244697&cid=28100153 [slashdot.org]

http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1273501&cid=28375697 [slashdot.org]

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=154725&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&tid=109&mode=thread&pid=12973723 [slashdot.org]

http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=157615&cid=13208800 [slashdot.org]

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=157321&cid=13190570 [slashdot.org]

http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=154868&cid=12988150 [slashdot.org]

http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=160244&cid=13414756 [slashdot.org]

http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=160290&threshold=1&commentsort=0&tid=109&mode=thread&cid=13419053 [slashdot.org]

http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=161697&cid=13526010 [slashdot.org]

http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=162717&cid=13598832 [slashdot.org]

http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=165958&cid=13843462 [slashdot.org]

http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=166174&cid=13863159 [slashdot.org]

http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=164039&cid=13698742 [slashdot.org]

http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=168793&cid=14070783 [slashdot.org]

http://books.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=168931&cid=14083927 [slashdot.org]

http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=236367&cid=19291677 [slashdot.org]

http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=237091&cid=19362755 [slashdot.org]

http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=170296&cid=14192885 [slashdot.org]

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=154997&cid=12998477 [slashdot.org]

http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=235621&cid=19229493 [slashdot.org]

http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=174277&cid=14498965 [slashdot.org]

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=170983&cid=14242283 [slashdot.org]

http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=359507&cid=21347933 [slashdot.org]

http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=173564&cid=14442403 [slashdot.org]

http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=233227&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&cid=18969947 [slashdot.org]

http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=447752&cid=22361236 [slashdot.org]

http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=173016&cid=14398069 [slashdot.org]

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BIASED JOURNALISM SELLS MORE MAGAZINES http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1638094&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=32063412 [slashdot.org]

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LINUX WENT DOWN 2x in LESS THAN 1 YEAR @ London Stock Exchange http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1999478&cid=35231358 [slashdot.org]

DO YOUR BEST WORK OUR YOUNG MENS LIVES RIDE ON IT http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1898806&cid=34472826 [slashdot.org]

APK MS SECURITY in 2011 3x less bug than Linux in kernel alone and entire dev suite has only 1 more (7 total bugs):

http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2059420&cid=35656126 [slashdot.org]

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* THE HOSTS FILE GROUP 20++ THUSFAR (from +5 -> +1 DESCENDING):

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Nuff said... you're "mere unqualified opinion", vs. 200++ others who felt clearly otherwise about my writing & what I stated in those posts, which is harder on us AC posters, because slashdot starts us @ 0/zero rating & hides our posts due to this new stupid "Web 2.0 filtering"...

APK

P.S.=> Get a life troll... & above ALL else - IF you don't LIKE what I write, or you cannot understand it because it's beyond your ken? DON'T READ IT, simple... apk

Where will the jobs... (2)

BigDaveyL (1548821) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794490)

... befor these newly minted CS people? It seems that every company doesn't want anything to do with recent grads or those that want to change fields/jobs within it (i.e. moving up from say help desk or QA) .

Re:Where will the jobs... (1)

Mongoose Disciple (722373) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794604)

That's true, but it was true ten years ago, too, and we all found some way to manage.

I've got jobs, you looking for work? (3, Interesting)

RingDev (879105) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794750)

Unemployment in the IT field is under 5%, even with the economic down turn. There are jobs for new grads.

For example, the company I work for is currently looking for a new DBA (preferably senior), a new BI guy, a new SharePoint person, and likely 2 more business/IT analysts. We'd take college grads for any of them but the DBA, and possibly for the DBA if it's the right kind of person.

Experience is important, but we've got work that needs doing and we're not going to waste money waiting for the perfect hire when we can get a skilled person in and spin them up.

-Rick

Re:I've got jobs, you looking for work? (1)

BigDaveyL (1548821) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794832)

Then you are in the minority, I guess. I'm not saying there are not oppurtunities... However, it's discouraging to read job descriptions and have recruiter's either get your hopes up or told by them that companies don't want you because your experience doesn't fit the typical molds.

Re:I've got jobs, you looking for work? (3, Insightful)

2names (531755) | more than 3 years ago | (#35795158)

Everyone pay very close attention to this next statement please.

RECRUITERS DON'T GIVE A DAMN ABOUT YOU.

To them, you are a commodity, a way to make sure little Johnny gets his new XBox 360 game, and nothing more.

If you want to find a job, you have to market yourself to the companies at which you would like to work. Get to know the company, try to meet the people in the department in which you are interested, make yourself available to these people, offer to volunteer on a project, etc. If you work this plan at several companies you will be much more likely to find a job that you fit and that also fits you.

Nice, but... (1)

bhunachchicken (834243) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794500)

... I don't mean to sound negative, but I expect a number of these aren't people who are genuinely interested in computer science, more the kind of person who wants to write an iPhone app and retire a millionaire within 5 years...

Re:Nice, but... (1)

countertrolling (1585477) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794766)

What are you? nuts? Be a millionaire writing for Apple? I don't think so. Screw that They're going to work on Wall Street and be a billionaire in two years.

Re:Nice, but... (1)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 3 years ago | (#35795204)

No, not writing for Apple, writing iPhone apps. Or Facebook games. Or Android apps. Before then, it was writing web pages. Before then it was writing games for microcomputers. Every few years, a few people who jump on a bandwagon in computing make a large profit and the press hypes it. A huge number of people think that they can reproduce this success and enrol in computer-related courses. Then they realise that computer science and programming both actually require the use of the brain and either switch fields or end up unemployed. The press then interviews a few of them and runs articles about how there are loads of 'IT pros' but no jobs for them, and applications drop off again. Then the press discovers a new buzzword and the cycle starts.

It doesn't seem to happen so much in other subjects. No one goes into Physics or Geography to get rich quick, and people do Law degrees and MBAs to get rich quick irrespective of whether there's actually any demand for them.

Re:Nice, but... (1)

countertrolling (1585477) | more than 3 years ago | (#35795282)

When you want to sell an iPhone app, it has to be approved by Apple, and they take a small chunk of the profits. You are working for Apple. They control what you can do. They can even 'fire' you if they don't like you.

Re:Nice, but... (1)

gad_zuki! (70830) | more than 3 years ago | (#35796292)

To be fair, one's motivations aren't exactly a face tattoo. Sure, maybe Jane gets in CS for make a killing at a startup. Maybe she wants to write apps. Maybe she does. Just because her motivation is money-based or prestige based in the beginning doesn't mean she can't do great things later.

Yes, physicists are prestige & money-based too. Talk to one. Ask them where they work and why. Ask them why they chose that particular phd program. Sure, there's perhaps more geeky love in hard sciences but there's a lot of competition for the well-paying universities, tenure, hard to get into phd programs, getting published, etc.

One of the very nice things about CS or Software Engineering or whatever is that you'll meet some really motivated guys who want to build things. They want to make new things. They have lots of ideas. In business school, law school, etc you just have drones who just care more about the big money and paying off their massive loans than the art of becoming a self-starter or making anything other than more TPS reports.

Look, all humans are greedy animals. We are just trying to maximize our cash, prestige, standing, intelligence, etc. This is how capitalism works. CS majors are no different. Don't piss on the guy who wants to run a startup, because he might and you might be calling him boss soon.

Re:Nice, but... (1)

bieber (998013) | more than 3 years ago | (#35795226)

That's how CS students usually are. They're either in it for the money, or they're in it because they like video games and think it will be fun to make them, having no idea what's actually involved. Those kinds of students either drop out/switch majors after a year or two (at my University they require passing a foundation exam before moving on to any 3000-level CS classes, and the pass rate is typically around 30%), or they barely scrape by, get their degree, and subsequently wonder why they're not pulling in six figures as they drift around never really caring enough to learn to be great at what they do.

On the bright side, it makes it easier for the students who really want to be in CS to stand out. On the not-so-bright side, it makes group projects a real pain.

Re:Nice, but... (1)

dev.null.matt (2020578) | more than 3 years ago | (#35795230)

When I was a freshman in college (God, that was over 10 years ago!) there was a girl on my floor who was majoring in computer engineering. She had seriously never used a computer before. She lasted about two weeks.

I assume these are the kinds of people you are referring to.

Re:Nice, but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35795804)

Girls in the dorm?

I'm going back to college...

Re:Nice, but... (1)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 3 years ago | (#35795386)

Two words: "Weeder Course".

Now, if the college just wants to move warm bodies through the door, they won't put one in place; don't want to discourage the customers until they've finished paying, after all. At the better class of institutions, though, it shouldn't be too hard to arm-twist the department's Serious Theory dude to run a brutal class that will fairly swiftly divide the 'CS' student population into 'actual CS students', 'purely vocational software engineers', and 'just in it for the money, have you considered a business major?'.

The fact that everything from 'intro to MS Office 101' to 'Nightmares at the edges of computability 895, instructor permission required' gets placed under the heading of 'CS' seems to be the real problem. It'd be like having computational fluid dynamicists, plumbers, and civil engineers all being produced by the same department...

What is ironic about the dot com era... (4, Insightful)

CrazyJim1 (809850) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794506)

If you were in college when the dot com era happened and graduated after the bust, you were in worse shape than people who went straight to work out of highschool. The reverse is true now. Since the job market is awful, it is good to be in school now.

Re:What is ironic about the dot com era... (3, Interesting)

BigDaveyL (1548821) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794596)

I was in school during the boom and graduated (in 3.5 years) in Dec. 2001. During the boom years, I'd get called every couple of weeks for internship oppurtunites. When the bust hit, it was like pulling teeth. And trying to find a real job was painful - so painful, that I stayed on an extra year and a half to get an MS degree in a related field. And it's been hit or miss since then. It seems like companies are more adverse to actually training/investing in staff then they were evevn 10-12 years ago.

Re:What is ironic about the dot com era... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35795802)

I did the same and went back to school for a second degree after a few years of meaningless manual labor, I graduated again just in time to have 9mo experience when the stock market crashed in sept 08. I got laid off when the companies value became pennies instead of dollars, but still managed to find work quickly enough.

The people who are really screwed right now are the architects and drafters who graduated just in time for the housing crash like my little sister. She still can't get a job.

Re:What is ironic about the dot com era... (1)

bberens (965711) | more than 3 years ago | (#35796534)

Could have been worse, you could have dropped out to work when they were all calling, only to get laid off and find yourself without a degree a year or two later.

Re:What is ironic about the dot com era... (3, Insightful)

jd (1658) | more than 3 years ago | (#35795370)

That depended. If you were in a college that taught according to the market (ie: Java and web applications) rather than according to the discipline, you were ruined.

If you were in a college that gave you a flexible background, skills that were transferrable across the industry, and exposure to a range of languages, you could find work that paid damn well after the crash.

Colleges should NEVER focus on what the marker wants this week. Even without the crash, what's wanted today will NOT be what's wanted 4 years down the road and won't even begin to resemble what's wanted when you're 20-30 years in. If you want to survive in an industry that evolves faster than you can learn a new skill, you have to have learned all the skills you will ever need in the business by the time you step out into the world. Everything beyond that point HAS to be pure reference work for the latest syntax. Do that and the market is irrelevant. You will always be employable.

Re:What is ironic about the dot com era... (1)

Kjella (173770) | more than 3 years ago | (#35796058)

If you were in a college that gave you a flexible background, skills that were transferrable across the industry, and exposure to a range of languages, you could find work that paid damn well after the crash.

If you're the kind who sought that kind of study and did well at it, you'd also be one of those kept on staff during the crash if you'd started working straight from high school. It's easier to stay once you have a foot inside than hit the "we're not hiring" wall, no matter if you're God's gife to CS. I graduated during a slump, two years earlier or two years later I'd be hired flat but not there and then.

Re:What is ironic about the dot com era... (3, Insightful)

DoofusOfDeath (636671) | more than 3 years ago | (#35795430)

Since the job market is awful, it is good to be in school now.

That statement probably should be qualified. There appears to be a price bubble in education at the moment, forcing many students to take loans with onerous terms ( impervious to bankruptcy ). And there's no certainty that the U.S. economy will offer jobs that would let even reasonably-sized student loans be paid off in a reasonable amount of time.

So honestly, the best I hope for is that the education price bubble will have popped by the time my young kids are done with high-school.

How many are actually studying computer science? (2)

DerekLyons (302214) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794520)

How many are actually studying computer science and how many are actually in hopped up vocational programs?

Re:How many are actually studying computer science (2)

Qzukk (229616) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794618)

Universities are still teaching computer science, much to the chagrin of people like this AC [slashdot.org] who apparently thinks that the degree should be a hopped up vocational program.

Personally, if employers want votech students they should say so and stop demanding a degree. If they want a degree, they should stop whining about how the degree isn't votech.

what about on the job training votech is better th (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35794686)

what about on the job training votech is better then CS class for work place skills but still certs / votech is still some ways from real IT job skills and what stuff that is not the book / ms way is done.

Re:How many are actually studying computer science (1)

RingDev (879105) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794814)

I think it matters on your goal. If you want skills for a job, go to a vocational school and get a tech degree.

If you want to be doing non-line of business work, go to a university and get a comp sci degree.

But there are a LOT more jobs that demand CS tech knowledge than CD university knowledge. Not that there is anything wrong with that, it's just the market.

-Rick

Re:How many are actually studying computer science (1)

bberens (965711) | more than 3 years ago | (#35796562)

Every programming job I've had has been more vocational tech than computer theory. Every programming job I've had required a bare minimum of a computer science degree.

stop demanding a degree.... (1)

mevets (322601) | more than 3 years ago | (#35795190)

Not just that, they should articulate what it really is that they are looking for so schools can stop shooting wildly.

I suspect the problem is that they don't know; that they want "someone that is good". To someone skilled in the arts of Human Resources, this can only mean good degree from a good school.

Re:How many are actually studying computer science (1)

ciggieposeur (715798) | more than 3 years ago | (#35796312)

Personally, if employers want votech students they should say so and stop demanding a degree. If they want a degree, they should stop whining about how the degree isn't votech.

And if they want a pliable class of debt slaves, they should keep doing what they are now.

Re:How many are actually studying computer science (1)

Lord Ender (156273) | more than 3 years ago | (#35796494)

Do you think engineering is "vocational?"

"Algorithm Science," which has been misnamed "Computer Science" in the US, is really a little-needed and little-appreciated discipline. What students want is "Software Engineering." This is also what industry wants. So why are all schools still teaching Algorithm Science, while only a few teach what everyone in that major actually wants?

Incompetence by school administrators. Cut computer science departments to a fraction of their size. Stick them under Mathematics. Then start teaching engineering. Algorithm Science is only a tiny fraction of what Software Engineering is. Focusing on it for four years is insanity for most people.

Re:How many are actually studying computer science (2)

xMrFishx (1956084) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794658)

Nothing wrong with a good vocational program as long as it is properly structured and teaches useful skills. You could say "and how many are hopped up degree programs". Looking back at my degree, having done education in both a vocational and a, whatever the opposite word is, standard degree format, I find I have learned considerably more through vocational methodology. My coursework marks have always been consistently better than my exam results. Shame about my English skills, but I'm an engineer not an author.

Re:How many are actually studying computer science (1)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 3 years ago | (#35795268)

The problem is not vocational programs in general, it's vocational programs that masquerade as academic degrees. These typically end up combining all of the disadvantages of both: they're light on theory and don't teach things that are current in industry. A lot of people would be better off doing vocational courses, but only if they're good vocational courses. Calling them degrees devalues both good academic qualifications and good vocational courses.

Re:How many are actually studying computer science (1)

xMrFishx (1956084) | more than 3 years ago | (#35795414)

Point taken on that, I understand what you're getting at now. Thanks.

Re:How many are actually studying computer science (1)

vlm (69642) | more than 3 years ago | (#35795032)

How many are actually studying computer science and how many are actually in hopped up vocational programs?

Don't forget option 3, which is the "IT" department in the business department, as opposed to "CS" which is in the math department.

Amusingly the report is about "CS" enrollment, which is all about analysis of algorithms, Knuth, and Scheme/LISP, but all the comments on /. so far are about "IT" jobs, which are all about SQL, TPS reports, and the "COBOL of the New Millennium aka Java"

Re:How many are actually studying computer science (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35795500)

COBOL [sourceforge.net] will never die.

Re:How many are actually studying computer science (1)

slyrat (1143997) | more than 3 years ago | (#35795586)

How many are actually studying computer science and how many are actually in hopped up vocational programs?

Don't forget option 3, which is the "IT" department in the business department, as opposed to "CS" which is in the math department.

Amusingly the report is about "CS" enrollment, which is all about analysis of algorithms, Knuth, and Scheme/LISP, but all the comments on /. so far are about "IT" jobs, which are all about SQL, TPS reports, and the "COBOL of the New Millennium aka Java"

The reason for this is that unless you are in a city or town that has a good CS undergrad program the private industry won't know how to tell the difference. So a lot of times if you get a good CS degree you'll still be doing "IT". This isn't entirely to blame on the managers, a lot of times it is the fault of HR that don't know how to tell the difference.

Re:How many are actually studying computer science (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35795708)

Mod parent -1, didn't even bother to read the summary. Ph.D granting institutions generally do not have "hopped up vocational programs"

Woo for scarcity! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35794670)

Good, less competition for the rest of us.

I'm 37.. I'm not old! (2)

Markvs (17298) | more than 3 years ago | (#35794676)

I started my Master's about 18 months ago after graduating with a Bachelor's in 1995. Why? Cash. Simply put, after a bit over 15 years in the industry you can't advance too far from "Senior SysAdmin" without a Master's. Oh, there are some possibilities but the cold hard fact is that to get anywhere fast it's the way to go, just like having the Bacehlor's kept me ahead of the competition during the .COM days. Sure, I didn't make outrageous money but I've been very comforable since I started working and that's no bad thing.
Did I learn anything then or am I learning anything now? Not anything directly useful on the job, no. But that's not the point of school anyway. You're there to hone your thought process and take in ideas and points of view you otherwise wouldn't encounter. Science knows, I'd never have taken Java last year if they didn't make me do it for the degree.
Bottom line: We need more IT professionals that are... IT *professionals*. Too often I've interviewed people that can't write or speak professionally (no, I don't care about accents!), or are just plain sloppy either in their manner of dress, their grasp of their skills, or (worst) their grasp of what work is about. The money is out there to be made, but getting the right person for an IT job in a financial firm is often a long process. A degree in CS is a good starting point and if nothing else lays a foundation for becoming a professional.

Re:I'm 37.. I'm not old! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35795048)

The fact you took a class on Java tells me you don't have a real CS degree. Computer science degrees are Math degrees, not Engineering degrees. No, programming is not a degree either, regardless of what the commercials say. Discrete math and combinatorial algorithm development are CS, not writing java classes...

Re:I'm 37.. I'm not old! (1)

Jerslan (1088525) | more than 3 years ago | (#35795452)

Agreed that Java should not be taught in intro to CS classes... Software Engineering, however, is the *application* of Computer Science. Having a CS degree is essential to that, and no I'm not one of those crazy people who argues for the removal of Math from CS programs; even though I never use Calculus, it did teach me how to think about things in a more analytical light.

Re:I'm 37.. I'm not old! (1)

pak9rabid (1011935) | more than 3 years ago | (#35795612)

I started my Master's about 18 months ago after graduating with a Bachelor's in 1995. Why? Cash. Simply put, after a bit over 15 years in the industry you can't advance too far from "Senior SysAdmin" without a Master's.

Absolute rubbish. Our previous software architect is easily the most brilliant software engineer that I have ever met and he didn't even have a bachelors degree. Now he's giving lectures about functional programming at campuses across the US (including MIT) and is a co-author of a book of the same subject matter (that will probably end up making an appearance on Slashdot in a few years).

On the flip side, I've seen people with a Master's in CS that couldn't even handle a SysAdmin gig. Just having the credentials doesn't necessarily make you a rock star in your field of study, it takes the willingness to push yourself and a genuine interest in what you're doing.

Not to shit on your parade, but I'd imagine the reason why you couldn't advance too far from "Senior SysAdmin" is simply because you either lack the proper skills for software development/engineering, or just simply don't push yourself hard enough to do something better.

Re:I'm 37.. I'm not old! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35795806)

I would venture that his problem is one of pigeonholing. Once you start down a career path it is difficult to switch. After 15 years as an admin, you will not be considered for most development positions. It's the same with support jobs, and likewise moving from engineering to management.

In his case, getting his MS opens up a lot more doors.

So sure, your rock star architect is not typical. Most of us are simply not rock stars, even though we wish we were.

Re:I'm 37.. I'm not old! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35796296)

I started my Master's about 18 months ago after graduating with a Bachelor's in 1995. Why? Cash. Simply put, after a bit over 15 years in the industry you can't advance too far from "Senior SysAdmin" without a Master's.

Absolute rubbish..

Sheesh, do you think you are being a bit too black-and-white? Markvs makes some good points.
True, many of us know or have heard about the geniuses who don't have degrees. And, some with degrees are duds. And, yes, credentials don't make anyone a rock star.

But, the majority of us are within one s.d. of "average" and education is a good thing when trying to advance one's career. If we can agree on that point, then we can have a meaningful discussion on what education is needed, what sort of advancement it is good for, etc.

---Paul

Re:I'm 37.. I'm not old! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35796532)

congrats - you managed to find the single outlier.

School Enrollment Always Increases +3, Plusgood (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35794834)

when the e-CON-omy decreases.

Yours On Wall Street,
Kilgore Trout

positioned at the hub of just about every national (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35794858)

positioned at the hub of just about every national priority

like plumbers and janitors, right?

And the reason is ... ? (4, Interesting)

ect5150 (700619) | more than 3 years ago | (#35795040)

Enrollments are up because unemployment is up. Pure and simple. People lose a job, they go back and get retrained. Enrollment is up across the board - not just in Comp Sci.

Re:And the reason is ... ? (1)

Anubis IV (1279820) | more than 3 years ago | (#35796020)

Enrollments are up 25% because of unemployment? Somehow I find that unlikely. More likely is that we finally have some star companies for the current generation. They see Facebook, Twitter, Google, Apple, game developers, and others that are developing products that are new, exciting, and targeted at them, and they want to get involved in the process that makes those products. The kids before that saw the .com bubble burst and probably had a bad taste in their mouths when thinking about the prospects offered by Computer Science. Plus, CS just makes good practical sense, since it's turned out to be harder to outsource than initially expected, and it's integral to pretty much everything that's made today in some way or another.

Computer Science != IT (4, Interesting)

teknopurge (199509) | more than 3 years ago | (#35795092)

CS is the study of discrete math and algorithms, not writing code. We didn't have a single class during my undergrad on writing code - things like C and Java were used to describe algorithms but we were expected to learn the languages on our own time, if we didn't already know them.

Re:Computer Science != IT (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35795910)

This. It's my fourth year in CS, (with another to go -- i spent some regretted time as an EE) and while we have learned algorithms, years of logic classes, how to design programming languages, some computer architecture, there are no classes teaching any sort of programming language on the track to graduation. This is more than fine by me. The amount of education from a wide scope of fields I was fortunate enough to have received in my time here already far outweighs the job training I could have done instead. Yes I could have gotten job training and been paid good money by now rather than build up debt, but I would not have understood the science of computation and the relations between the systems involved had I not chosen the academic route.

Re:Computer Science != IT (1)

Singularity42 (1658297) | more than 3 years ago | (#35796638)

No, you have it wrong. IT are the programmers. CS are the people who setup Windows machines to the proper display resolution, or carry monitors.

computer science (1)

aahpandasrun (948239) | more than 3 years ago | (#35795180)

Computer Science is still a hot field, regardless of the current dot-com bubble. People will always need software engineers, website developers, database administrators, and general IT guys.

Meh (2)

pak9rabid (1011935) | more than 3 years ago | (#35795374)

Wake me up when these 10% actually complete their CS degree.

Re:Meh (1)

webbiedave (1631473) | more than 3 years ago | (#35795534)

True that. I posted a similar comment before I noticed your post.

Actual science degree or vocational training? (3, Insightful)

ErichTheRed (39327) | more than 3 years ago | (#35795398)

I'm surprised about this statistic as well as happy. I was pretty much sure CS and other science work was completely written off by US students as nonviable. After all, it's easier to go into investment banking or management consulting, and the course load is much easier for a bigger payoff.

Some people have posted sentiments along the lines of -- "is this actual CS being studied, or a checkbox for an IT job?" Being in IT, I can say that having a background in a science or engineering discipline (doesn't matter which one) is a huge asset. The abiltiy to logically break down a system or problem, analyze dependencies and troubleshoot separates a really good IT guru from the guy who just got out of a certification class. (If you have this ability naturally, then great...but most people need to actually practice on something to get good at it, hence the degree.) This also can lead to more job satisfaction -- I enjoy my job because my company gives me interesting problems to solve, partially because they know I'll be able to deal with the "interesting" stuff better than someone who can just follow directions. I have a non-CS background (chemistry,) but the same scientific, logical reasoning applies. For example, when ýou're trying to figure out a poorly documented application with no access to the developers or support, and something goes wrong, this kicks in. Someone who just took a certification class will (may!) know how to drive the product's GUI or CLI, and often changes six things at a time in the vague hope that something will work. A science-trained individual is much more likely to methodically approach troubleshooting, and understand how what they do possibly affects connected systems. There are huge exceptions in both cases, and I've seen them, but it's a good rule of thumb that someone with a science/engineering background is going to be a better candidate for a job. Maybe my judgement is a little clouded since I'm in systems integration, where this skillset is even more important to have. Anything outside of a formulaic procedure, or a situation where you actually have to come up with the procedure is better staffed by someone who can deal with the higher-level work.

One interesting side effect of this is that if enrollment in good CS programs gets high enough, employers will no longer be able to sell the "we can't find qualified Americans to do our jobs." Like I said, I only agree with them to a point -- there's a lot of bozos in our field that don't belong and are better suited to other professions. However, there are a lot of good, qualified people out there...they just don't work cheap and are usually employed unless a major layoff/restructuring leaves you without a seat.

Re:Actual science degree or vocational training? (3, Insightful)

hoggoth (414195) | more than 3 years ago | (#35795686)

> "we can't find qualified Americans to do our jobs."

Of course they will continue saying this. The qualification they are talking about is accepting being paid in the equivalent of 10 Rupies a day.

Re:Actual science degree or vocational training? (1)

GodfatherofSoul (174979) | more than 3 years ago | (#35796156)

One interesting side effect of this is that if enrollment in good CS programs gets high enough, employers will no longer be able to sell the "we can't find qualified Americans to do our jobs.

I don't follow the logic here. There are already plenty of unemployed people in IT. The complaint has always been about getting more visas for foreign IT workers and getting favorable laws passed to outsource. Now, if graduation rates reach the point that wages approach those in outsourcing target nations...

Why do I have a feeling... (1)

webbiedave (1631473) | more than 3 years ago | (#35795484)

in 2 years we'll have a 10% increase in CS dropouts. So many kids are signing up with little programming and virtually no CS theory under their belts and institutions are nothing if not overjoyed to take their money. Soon, however, they become shocked into heavy schedules of general electives once the learn the dirty truth of what CS really is.

More specific stats? (1)

SpasticMutant (748828) | more than 3 years ago | (#35795502)

Do they have stats on foreign enrollment vs. US Citizen enrollment? Most of my esteemed coworkers are from other countries; I'd sure like to see more Americans picking up those high salaries. I do find it hilarious though that due to the weak dollar, my foreign coworkers discovered to their dismay that their bitchin' high salaries don't buy nearly as much back home as they once did. Ha!

Post-Microsoft era (1)

Relayman (1068986) | more than 3 years ago | (#35796024)

When I watched Watson on Jeopardy!, I realized we had entered the post-Microsoft era: Where technologies and techniques that were common in the '70s would be brought back to prominence and we can go forward. It is the dawning of a new age in Computer Science.

B.S. in Computer Science, 1976, Department of Engineering, University of Illinois

Any who gets the new job (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35796054)

I worked like a mad man at computers. At times it was not for the money it was for the love of computers.
A new job posting in the company at a higher level seems like a good fit.... do I get the job nope. 10 years in the field with 250 hours a month average hundreds of very happy clients (even in writing). The new person with 6 month of in office training and a piss poor work ethics and not a clue about computers the position. Why? They want young blood to replace the retiring people. I think that offering tons of money and perks to a new kids will keep them around for ever. The last 6 they 'new' promotions lasted less then 2 years and then left to work else where - most likely for more money and more perks. So the next one they offer more too. Pisses so many workers we all look else where to. No chance of a promotions and salary roll backs just to watch the new recruits with zero experience or connection to the company get offer at least 50% more than you currently makes the moral go to shit. Anyone hiring?

No respect, work holidays, no dating prospects (1)

Maxo-Texas (864189) | more than 3 years ago | (#35796064)

If that's your thing-- go ahead.

Or you can get some computer courses and a business degree. Graduate earlier, start lower pay but end up higher pay, not work holidays, have more parties and dating prospects, play golf with the bosses.

IT is viewed as a sucking hole of money by every company.
IT people are viewed as fair to work on sundays and holidays 12 hours a day without extra compensation.

If you are in a publicly held company- you can't write a line of code for production without a non-programmer approving it. You'd be amazed how many things they view as unneeded.

Mobile effect? (1)

Bram Stolk (24781) | more than 3 years ago | (#35796096)

My guess is that some of that boost is coming from the thriving mobile industry.
A good chunk of those new students are secretly thinking of making the next angry birds.

oh gawd no .... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35796216)

I remember this happened in around 2000. "Learn Programming. Jobs ! Jobs ! Jobs !" so a bunch of 6-month for-profit outfits "graduated" incompetent developers by the truck load.

My gripe: they were in "computers" because they thought it meant quick jobs, not because they had a passion for development or even some aptitude for it. So much crap code.

Gah !

The most important thing to learn in Comp Sci (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35796444)

"Ya want fries wizzat?"

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