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Swedish File-Sharers File For Religious Status

samzenpus posted about 3 years ago | from the guided-to-share dept.

Idle 420

nloop writes "A group of file-sharers in Sweden have requested that their religion, Kopimism, be officially recognized in Sweden. Although this status has been denied once in the past the struggle for religious freedom from persecution continues. Aside from deeming CTRL+C CTRL+V as sacred symbols other beliefs include the flow of information being ethically right and closed source software being 'akin to slavery.'"

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420 comments

What do they share? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35851646)

What does the average swedish file sharer use p2p for?

Is the majority of it produced in Sweden, or elsewhere? If so, where?

Re:What do they share? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35851674)

A group of self-confessed radical pirates are pinning their hopes on gaining official recognition of their own unique belief system. The founders of the Missionary Church of Kopimism – who hold CTRL+C and CTRL+V as sacred symbols

Ad hominem.

s – hope that along with this acceptance will come harmony, not just with each other, but also with the police.

‘Thou shall not steal’ is one of the most well-

Straw man.

-known of the Ten Commandments. Although most familiar to those in Christian circles, its message is universal and cuts across most religious boundaries. But while ste

Begging the question.

ealing – taking another’s property and therefore depriving him of it – is widely frowned upon, some have a wider definition for the word.

Make no mistake, if the entertainment industries were God passing their sacred rulings to Moses, there would h

Appeal to consequences.

have almost certainly been one more – Thou Shalt Not Copy. But for the followers of a brand new religion in Sweden, this commandment would be against everything they believe in.

The congregation at Missionary Kopimis

Straw man.

stsamfundet – The Missionary Church of Kopimism – believe that copying is to be embraced by religion and they hope that very shortly this way of life will be officially accepted by the authoritie

Appeal to emotion.

es.

Founded by 19-year-old philosophy student, Isaac Gerson, this brand new church believes that copying and the sharing of infor

Appeal to popularity.

rmation is the most beautiful thing in the world. To have your information copied is a token of appreciation, say the church, a sure sign that people think you have done something good.

For those

Appeal to hypocrisy.

thinking this is some kind of late April Fool’s joke, think again.

In late 2010 the church applied to the authorities to be accepted as an official religion. That

Appeal to authority.

application was denied at the end of March on the basis that although the church is indeed a community, its meetings did not constitute ‘worship’. Undeterred, the church founder

Appeal to popularity.

rs have requested a meeting to find out what is required in order to gain official acceptance. They certainly aren’t giving in.

“Throughout history, various groups aroun

Appeal to popularity.

nd the world have been persecuted by oppressors. They have since taken refuge in religion with a desire for a peaceful coexistence. Without threats and harassment,” the church explain.

“In our belief,

Appeal to hypocrisy.

communication is sacred. Communication needs to be respected. It is a direct sin to monitor and eavesdrop on people. Absolute secrecy is holy in the Church of Kopimism.”

The church has its own set

Appeal to hypocrisy.

t of axioms, most of which revolve around free access to knowledge and the sharing of information. They include:

# Reproduction of information is eth

Begging the question.

hically right.
# The flow of information is ethically right.
# Remix Spirit is a sacred kind of copying.
# Copying or remixing information conveyed by another person is an act of respect.

The church is also acutely against DRM and other methods of protecti

Red herring.

ing or hiding code.

“To appropriate software (to keep source code hidden from others), is comparable to slavery, and should be banned,” they

Appeal to consequences.

y declare.

Perhaps predictably the church use the ‘Kopimi’ logo (a pyramid with the letter K inside) as their official symbol and hold CTRL+C and CTRL+V as sacred.

Joining the church seems fai

Appeal to consequences.

irly easy too. All you have to do is agree that everything should be copied and information should be free in line with the axioms above, then load the church’s website so that the ‘kopimi’ logo refreshes (or indeed draw it, or copy it in

Appeal to authority.

any way) and you’re in. Potential followers can request more information by using the online form here.

In common with many other religions around the world, expect the followers of the Missionary Church of Kopimism

Appeal to authority.

m to be widely persecuted for their beliefs. Praying they don’t get caught while practising them will offer little protection. After all, even the Pope backs up his faith with bullet-proof glass.

Begging the question.

Re:What do they share? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35851888)

Fisking

Re:What do they share? (1, Interesting)

Hal_Porter (817932) | about 3 years ago | (#35852130)

Curiously most of the stuff they share is produced in the US.

Re:What do they share? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35852230)

If that is true, it seems much less noble.

Them swedes. (0, Insightful)

unity100 (970058) | about 3 years ago | (#35851650)

they are at it again. defending the principles of modern society against private greed. because, most others that purported to do that, failed. like americans.

Re:Them swedes. (3, Insightful)

The End Of Days (1243248) | about 3 years ago | (#35851702)

Wait, how is desiring to collect more entertainment than could ever be consumed in a human lifetime without compensating the creators not a form of personal greed?

Re:Them swedes. (3, Interesting)

unity100 (970058) | about 3 years ago | (#35851756)

do you see the irony of requiring compensation on something that will not be ever used on a lifetime, and the same thing also being reproduceable/copiable faster than the original author can say 'copyright' ?

Re:Them swedes. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35851778)

do you see the irony of requiring compensation on something that will not be ever used on a lifetime, and the same thing also being reproduceable/copiable faster than the original author can say 'copyright' ?

So most of the western world is pretty fucked then, if IP has no value then the only value is in manufacturing, which is almost always outsourced because labor costs are too high locally.

Re:Them swedes. (1)

The End Of Days (1243248) | about 3 years ago | (#35851852)

Well, no, I don't see the irony. The copying costs were never really the main consideration at any point - they were more the baseline costs.

Maybe you can explain the irony to me.

Re:Them swedes. (1)

The End Of Days (1243248) | about 3 years ago | (#35851860)

Oh and if you like, take a stab at answering my original question. 10+ years of Slashdot and I've never had that one answered.

Re:Them swedes. (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35851984)

You refer to this question:

Wait, how is desiring to collect more entertainment than could ever be consumed in a human lifetime without compensating the creators not a form of personal greed?

I guarantee it has been answered in the past ten years. You have just not been paying attention. But I will answer it again.

Having free access to more oxygen than can be consumed in a human lifetime is not considered personal greed. Why not? Because the good is abundant. Same for data. Once it exists, it is even more abundant than oxygen. It can be duplicated endlessly without costing anyone anything. Therefore, performing such replication is not greedy.

If my copy of it prevented you from having a copy of it, then grabbing up more than I need would be greed. Since that isn't the case, the word greed does not apply.

There you go, answered. You might disagree (and you would be wrong) but you can no longer claim that it hasn't been answered.

Re:Them swedes. (5, Insightful)

Hal_Porter (817932) | about 3 years ago | (#35852194)

Having free access to more oxygen than can be consumed in a human lifetime is not considered personal greed. Why not? Because the good is abundant. Same for data. Once it exists, it is even more abundant than oxygen. It can be duplicated endlessly without costing anyone anything. Therefore, performing such replication is not greedy.

Movies aren't like oxygen. If people don't pay to watch them the businesses that make movies will do something else instead. Talking about the costs of making a copy (zero) and neglecting the cost of making the original movie (hundreds of millions of dollars) completely misses the point that the reason people are willing to invest money in making movies is because they expect to get that money back and more from selling the right to see it. If everyone pirated it rather than paying to see it there would be no reason to invest money in making future movies. Thus movies would not get made.

So the people that pirate are reducing the chance of future movies from being made by reducing the profits on the ones that exist. They are a bit like customers that go to a restaurant and eat their fill but don't pay - in the long run they will force the restaurant out of business. That could easily be described as greedy by other non free loading patrons. Not to mention by the owner.

Re:Them swedes. (1)

AK Marc (707885) | about 3 years ago | (#35852008)

I'd be willing to bet it's been answered hundreds of times. But that your response was "nuh uh" or "that's still greed" or such. Or perhaps some simply said "yes it is personal greed, just like it's personal greed that I want to greedily hold onto the land my parents left me and not share it with others." Greed isn't inherently illegal or immoral. It's greed to use it without paying for it. But then, it's greed to use it after paying for it. So I'm not sure what your point is, but it appears to be "I'll make silly meaningless statements and then use people responding to those silly meaningless statements with other silly meaningless statements as proof that my actual personal belief, hidden through my propensity to play devil's advocate, is correct and no one has or ever will prove me wrong." Or something like that.

A question for your question (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35852074)

Is personal greed worse than corporate greed? Or rather, is the greed of a single person overshadowed by the greed of many people working together? At what point should people fight back with more than their dollars when other fight so hard to control every avenue those dollars can be spent in?

These companies that control media, of all kinds, are resisting change with such fervor that the people are fighting back every way they can. Indie avenues on the web for self publishing of all kinds is chipping away at them. New methods for distribution are chipping away at them. And piracy is chipping away at them.

History has proven that the people of any country or race or religion will only take a beating for so long before fighting back. America was founded by two classes: People seeking freedom from religious persecution, and Merchants who wanted to keep more of their hard earned money, expand their businesses and seek new ways to sell and distribute.

I know two wrongs don't make a right is often parroted to us as children but the reality is that yes, another wrong is often needed to redress a severe imbalance between two classes. War is wrong....unless its against an evil empire. Hate is wrong....unless it is hatred of what society as a whole considers evil. We all agree the media companies are in the wrong. They continually try to get copyright extended, they abuse the actual creators, they abuse actual copyright law.

They tread on us...

Its time they learned these snakes bite. There is your answer. Yes, it IS a personal form of greed. One that when compounded person upon person adds up to a people that are tired of being forced to accept terms dictated by what are essentially a bunch of greedy, lying, thieves. They call consumers thieves, well it takes one to know one, and they are some of the best thieves around. They don;t break the law, they change the law to suit their whims and desires until everyone is forced to pay.

To pay for an album.
To pay for playing that album in their car.
To pay for playing that album on their computer.
To pay for playing that album on a personal music device.
To pay for allowing others to hear that album when they are enjoying it.
To pay for every and ay copy and 'performance' imaginable.

That is what THEY want. What they desire to be reality. They scream and cry it is for the musicians. For the actors. For the authors. And yet they regularly pay out less then 30% of what they take in to those same people. They keep rolling their copyrights to extend them indefinitely. Forever. Long after the lives of the artists have ended. Eventually there will be no Public Domain. not because they got it made illegal, but because nothing modern and relevant will enter it anymore. Ever. So yes, personal greed it is indeed. Personal greed for the ability to actually enjoy entertainment rather than buy it and wonder when I will become a criminal just for enjoying it.

Re:Them swedes. (1)

ailnlv (1291644) | about 3 years ago | (#35852012)

do you see the irony of requiring compensation on something that will not be ever used on a lifetime, and the same thing also being reproduceable/copiable faster than the original author can say 'copyright' ?

i don't know about that, some of those lawyers can say 'copyright' pretty damn fast

Re:Them swedes. (1)

AK Marc (707885) | about 3 years ago | (#35851974)

How is breathing air without paying the trees that scrubbed the CO2 out of it anything other than personal greed?

Heretics! (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35851656)

All who follow the mighty Jobs know that the only proper religious symbols are cmd-c, cmd-v

Re:Heretics! (4, Funny)

M. Baranczak (726671) | about 3 years ago | (#35851854)

All who follow the mighty Jobs know that the only proper religious symbols are cmd-c, cmd-v

Why such harsh language? No, they're not heretics. Just a few of our brothers and sisters - OK, a few of our brothers - who've been led astray. We may disagree with them, but we can keep this disagreement civil. Hearken to the words of Mr. T: yea, we do not hate the fool; we pity the fool.

No, we must reserve our hatred for the vile, damnable, iniquitous cult of the yy and the p.

Re:Heretics! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35852124)

Fool! It's because you can call them, "command-"ments. Don't you know that all that y-ing will make you go blind?

Re:Heretics! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35852136)

-1 Infidel
(I'm a Vim user. :) )

Re:Heretics! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35852202)

No, we must reserve our hatred for the vile, damnable, iniquitous cult of the yy and the p.

You can have my Vim when you pry it from my cold dead fingers.

I thought Sweden was more sensible (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35851662)

as far as religion went.

Next we will have paedohiles filing for religious status... Oh, wait

BSOD (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35851668)

Is BSOD the sign of the devil then?

This has gone too far (4, Insightful)

ohnocitizen (1951674) | about 3 years ago | (#35851686)

Look I get that companies providing content (or more accurately, managing content distribution) are acting like thugs. I even agree that individual copyright violations for personal use aren't that big a deal. But are we going to go so far as to support something this ridiculous? To read summaries like this you get the sense there isn't any value to intellectual property at all. If content producers know that anything they produce is "up for grabs", what incentive do they have to keep producing? Why is the idea of purchasing intellectual property of any sort, from software to movies, "akin to slavery"? Its economic privilege to assume they can just do it "as a hobby" or "contribute to open source". Open source has a place, but so does closed source. Fighting back against individual prosecutions is worthwhile and laudable. Framing those who wish to produce intellectual property and then charge for it as "slavers" is dishonest and counterproductive.

Re:This has gone too far (4, Insightful)

gman003 (1693318) | about 3 years ago | (#35851692)

It isn't supposed to succeed. It's supposed to make a point that the system as it is is completely and utterly broken, and motivate change.

Re:This has gone too far (4, Insightful)

MoonBuggy (611105) | about 3 years ago | (#35851726)

Even if you think their opinions are ridiculous (and I agree that they go a bit far, but to be honest crazy extremes on our side of the argument help to counter the crazy extremes on the other), it makes an equally good statement on the absurdity of giving religions (which, pretty much by definition, consist of the collective beliefs of a bunch of people) protected status. I'd challenge anyone to come up with a generic legal definition that encompasses major and minor world religions, without showing favouritism, but still excludes these guys.

Re:This has gone too far (2)

The End Of Days (1243248) | about 3 years ago | (#35851746)

You're giving the free entertainment crowd a lot more credit than they deserve. Is that the natural Slashdottian tendency to believe Europeans can't be stupid, greedy, venal people?

Re:This has gone too far (1)

MoonBuggy (611105) | about 3 years ago | (#35851758)

Their intent may or may not have been greed, but the fact remains that their point does raise the questions I suggested, intentionally or otherwise.

Re:This has gone too far (1, Troll)

unity100 (970058) | about 3 years ago | (#35851760)

compared to those in u.s., europeans indeed come up as the angels the gp portrays.

Re:This has gone too far (2)

MoonBuggy (611105) | about 3 years ago | (#35851780)

Just to clarify, in case anyone gets the wrong end of the stick: I'm of the firm opinion that everyone should be able to say and believe absolutely what the hell they like, and those rights should be protected indiscriminately for all, but the problems start occurring when you offer religious organisations tax breaks, exemptions from laws applied to other organisations, and so forth.

Re:This has gone too far (1)

ohnocitizen (1951674) | about 3 years ago | (#35851806)

I don't think this is the best way to go about that. I think there are far wittier and more effective means to talk about the absurdity of giving religion protective status. This just doesn't seem like an effective ploy in any light, even if their goals (tackle overzealous prosecution of file sharers or make light of religion) are worthwhile. To protest religion, why not form a new religious group that proposes "Recycling priests who molest": "Why let a holy man go to waste? Waste not, want not my children. Errr, let us rephrase". Or perhaps a religious group that promises sermons "ambiguous enough to enjoy plausible deniability, but angry enough to incite some believers to violence". To attack file sharing, why not pay private investigators to dig up dirt on those advocating for jailing file sharers (like their closets are empty of skeletons, HAH). Or perhaps working with original content producers to come up with language for a license that keeps the proprietary nature of their work, but promises not to sue individual downloaders? Or form a law firm that announces its entire business model will entail threatening people without the fiscal resources to obtain real representation into paying settlements to avoid a legal battle? There are more effective means available.

Re:This has gone too far (1)

MoonBuggy (611105) | about 3 years ago | (#35852042)

You're absolutely right, they don't do a particularly good job of promoting copyright reform or bringing the laws regarding religion into question, but I don't think they're an embarrassment to either cause. I'm happy enough for more voices on the side of the issues that I happen to agree with, whether or not they're doing it in the best possible manner.

Re:This has gone too far (0)

king neckbeard (1801738) | about 3 years ago | (#35851812)

The 'slaver' bit has far more more credibility than claims of copyright infringers being thieves, because copyright actually is a form of restriction. Also, it doesn't say there's anything wrong with buying software or movies, or that producing these inherently makes you a slaver. The 'sin' would be in restricting the flow and usage of published information, either through legal (copyright) or technical (DRM) means.

Hypocrites (1, Interesting)

tsa (15680) | about 3 years ago | (#35851936)

I agree with you wholeheartedly. I also suspect that members of this sect will cry foul when for instance some of their GPL'd code is found to be plagierized and used in another program.

Re:This has gone too far (1, Insightful)

Sir_Lewk (967686) | about 3 years ago | (#35852088)

To read summaries like this you get the sense there isn't any value to intellectual property at all.

So fucking what?

Re:This has gone too far (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35852096)

Intellectual property laws are incompatible with Libertarianism.

Re:This has gone too far (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35852114)

"If content producers know that anything they produce is "up for grabs", what incentive do they have to keep producing?"

Honestly...for love of what they do. Most writers never get published. Most bands never achieve fame. So many original ideas for movies go unmade. These same content distributors block a large amount of content from ever getting to us. Even so, people STILL create. They write, they play, they act, they dream. Even when they KNOW for a 100% fact they will never become rich, famous or widely known, they STILL do it. Why? Seems stupid to bang your head against a wall and waste your life chasing dreams, right? Even so. They do it. They would still do it even if everyone stole their music and played it around the world. If everyone stole their story and read it everywhere. If someone else made all their movies and let everyone watch them for free.

We're human. We eat, screw, and dream. In every sense of the words. Even crazy people sing and dance and write. Even sociopaths. Humans will always produce creative works. The need to profit from them is not the primary motivator for it. It never has been. That is a lie fed to us from the people who always stood to make the most money from creative works. The Patrons of Art. The Content Distributors. Different age, different titles, same values. To get a monetary return for funding anothers creative works.

Re:This has gone too far (2)

DurendalMac (736637) | about 3 years ago | (#35852240)

Money isn't necessarily the motivator, but it IS a motivator for people to INVEST in the production of creative works. Without that investment, what we have is a bunch of entertainment that doesn't get far above Youtube-grade. While I can say that a lot of Hollywood big-budget movies are crap, some have become cultural phenomena. Do you honestly think that millions would have been invested in those movies if the return on it would be virtually nil? Do you think that we'd have full-time authors if they couldn't make a living doing it full-time?

Sorry, but your argument is the same tired horseshit. Money IS a big motivator in creative works. It's not the only one by far, but it's a major factor. If you want to make creative works as more than just a hobby or side job, how the hell are you supposed to do so if you can't make a living doing it?

Re:This has gone too far (2, Insightful)

UnknownSoldier (67820) | about 3 years ago | (#35852180)

> If content producers know that anything they produce is "up for grabs", what incentive do they have to keep producing?

Right, because money is the _only_ incentive for people to create. /sarcasm.

Why don't you actually talk to people who create in their spare time. The ability of the human soul to express itself is driven by more then purely capitalistic greed. Apparently this paradigm is a foreign concept to you.

> To read summaries like this you get the sense there isn't any value to intellectual property at all.

I'll probably get downmodded for not being civil but, "No Shit, Sherlock."

1. Imaginary Property Rights are neither property, nor rights. Audio, Video, and/or Textual information can be represented as a number. To say someone somehow "magically" "owns" ones a particular sequence of bits is assine.

2. "Value" is _relative_ between 2 parties. What price do you do you put on something that benefits _everyone_, such as concepts like the wheel, numbers, math, formulas, the cure for cancer? So why should entertainment be treated differently? Art is for the benefit of everyone. Certain artists would even argue that once you put a price on art, it is not art; it is pseudo-art, because its purpose of bastard existance has been hi-jacked. Putting a price on something demands that the "value" is one-sided. It is perfectly valid to argue that the "value" of ownership is a myth -- the value of a soceity to freely share what it produces is priceless -- which is what the intent is here.

> Framing those who wish to produce intellectual property and then charge for it as "slavers" is dishonest and counterproductive.

Those who charge for "I.P." are doing it out of greed. It is time the human race grows up, and realizes there is more to life then money.

Isn't open source a religion aready? (-1, Troll)

slasher34 (2044192) | about 3 years ago | (#35851688)

It even has a bible.... [freeblogspot.org]

Re:Isn't open source a religion aready? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35851710)

didn't click it, but the magic 8-ball says goatse.

sold on ctrl alt as religious symbols (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35851694)

Is their signs artwork done in ascii as well?ctrl alt as religious symbols ok I am sold on their religion They may end up with alot of followers that way !

Why be such morons? (5, Insightful)

Antidamage (1506489) | about 3 years ago | (#35851700)

This is not the way to get the ethos behind file-sharing taken seriously. It's counter-productive and childish.

Re:Why be such morons? (4, Insightful)

MoonBuggy (611105) | about 3 years ago | (#35851750)

As I mentioned in a post above, if you think their opinions on sharing are ridiculous, then it makes an excellent statement on the problems with allowing religion to be a protected class. Religion is something that a group of people happen to believe - you can't give special treatment to certain types of belief without discriminating against those who do not subscribe to those particular types.

Re:Why be such morons? (5, Insightful)

MoonBuggy (611105) | about 3 years ago | (#35851784)

Just to clarify, in case anyone gets the wrong end of the stick: I'm of the firm opinion that everyone should be able to say and believe absolutely what the hell they like, and those rights should be protected indiscriminately for all, but the problems start occurring when you offer religious organisations tax breaks, exemptions from laws applied to other organisations, and so forth.

Re:Why be such morons? (4, Interesting)

Toze (1668155) | about 3 years ago | (#35852214)

As a Master's theology student and active church member, I agree. I'm increasingly uncomfortable with church tax breaks. Sure, it's nice, and maybe if there's rules for secular non-profits I wouldn't mind incorporating in that sense, but for governments to specifically say "you're a religious organization, you get tax breaks" is to say as well that "you're _not_ a religious organization, you get no tax breaks." You can't read a lot of religious history without getting nervous about governments deciding what is and isn't a religion.

As an unrelated aside, the same kind of argument is why I dislike legal protection of "traditional" marriage.

Hilarious: Reminds me of something a guy I know (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35851776)

Did once. He was trying to start his own "ministry" and called it (get this):

"The Church of God's own GOOD GREEN LEAVES"... lol, talk about obvious!

(I.E.-> He tried it, so he could smoke pot and get away with it or so he thought, because of religious beliefs etc./et al... )

Now, personally? I don't know if that's even POSSIBLE (let alone legal), but, I took him with a "grain of salt" as usual on his "hare-brained ideas".

Mainly because he TRULY reminds me of "Ricky" from "The Trailer Park Boys" (good guy though, still a pal of mine, but he does "have his moments" & that? That's one of the 'classics' imo @ least), & IF you've EVER seen that show? You KNOW what I mean.

APK

P.S.=> Yes, he got "rejected" on trying to apply for it... I just laughed my a$$ off when he told me about it - I was like "J, that's another CLASSIC outta you, for sure!'... apk

Re:Why be such morons? (4, Insightful)

Daniel Dvorkin (106857) | about 3 years ago | (#35851810)

This is not the way to get the ethos behind file-sharing taken seriously. It's counter-productive and childish.

It is, however, if they're successful, a way to enjoy the same legal protections granted to a number of other ethoses (ethoi?) which are demonstrably more counter-productive and childish than any amount of file-sharing could ever be. Which I kind of suspect is the point. "We don't care if you agree with us, just stop persecuting us" is a demand which has proven quite effective, in the civilized world, for all sorts of beliefs which previously been considered bizarre at best and criminal at worst.

Re:Why be such morons? (1)

Wolfling1 (1808594) | about 3 years ago | (#35851896)

Whilst I agree with your comment, the delivery is a bit flame-baitish (is that a word?).

Most of the western world is pushing the democracy wagon at the moment. It might not be a very good form of government, but its the best we've got right now.

Now, here's the rub. 90% of the world subscribes to some kind of religion. And a majority of those believe that their religion is entitled to governmental benefits of some kind or another.

Scientific or not, democracy demands that religion is recognised and favoured.

Combine that with a capitalist economic system that encourages exploitation and boundary-pushing, and we have ... Scientology. Or Kopimism. Or Jedi-ism. Or whatever-ism.

You're right that it does not curry favour for the file-sharing concept. However, it does curry favour for the concept of abolishing religion-welfare. And that is something I can support.

Re:Why be such morons? (1, Insightful)

ChrisMaple (607946) | about 3 years ago | (#35851988)

Why be such morons? Why be counter-productive and childish? How is that different from all other religions?

Re:Why be such morons? (0)

Raineer (1002750) | about 3 years ago | (#35851994)

This is not the way to get the ethos behind file-sharing taken seriously. It's counter-productive and childish.

As are most religions. I love the way they are going about it. Says more about organized religion and the way governments tolerate it than anything about file sharing.

Re:Why be such morons? (2)

owlnation (858981) | about 3 years ago | (#35852016)

This is not the way to get the ethos behind file-sharing taken seriously. It's counter-productive and childish.

No. It's funny. Which means people like it. The power of comedy can be enormous. Ask Jon Stewart. It's a perfectly valid way of raising awareness, and using that awareness to create change.

Re:Why be such morons? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35852246)

Who are you to judge someone else's religion? You don't think that the other major religions were made up as well to benefit
someone?
Here is my religion: God is real, religions exploit spirituality. All of them.

Re:Why be such morons? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35852254)

The problem isn't "file sharing", it's file sharing copyrighted products. The problem is some of what is being "shared" cost millions, tens of millions, or even hundreds of millions to produce. Everyone is being over paid? My creditors would beg to differ. When you have a thousand people involved in the making of a film then a budget in the hundreds of millions isn't outrageous. Remember a big chunk isn't wages it's materials and travel and hotel bills. And no it's not people living it up in hotels. I remember working on films where I was on the film for weeks before I saw the hotel during daylight hours. We'd leave before the sun came up and get back long after it was down. People work hard to make the god forsaken films that people feel they have every right to have for free. Guess how many big budget action films like the one you just watched will get made if everyone pirates? Zero. Can you do that math? I just get tired of hearing how greedy we are when my mortgage is late yet again. The studios may get rich but the poor bums that make the films are living paycheck to paycheck. While you are enjoying your free download my kids are wondering when they'll get new shoes. You aren't stealing from the rich you are taking food out of my kid's mouths because when the studios fail to make a profit they just cut our wages. That's the ugly reality of the situation.

Control Not Command (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35851714)

It's good to see Microsoft is getting it's own cult.

Story of Beginning in this religion (5, Informative)

CrystalFalcon (233559) | about 3 years ago | (#35851720)

Don't miss out on Member of European Parliament Christian Engström's suggestion for a religious version of the Beginning [google.com] for this religion.

Short version:

1. There was chaos and soup.
2. Somebody in the soup learned to copy. Thus was Life.
3. Having learned to copy, they built magnificent things.
4. We honor the beginning by copying and building magnificent things.

Not bad, I think.

Re:Story of Beginning in this religion (3, Funny)

omglolbah (731566) | about 3 years ago | (#35851886)

Makes more sense than scientology ;)

Re:Story of Beginning in this religion (4, Insightful)

gman003 (1693318) | about 3 years ago | (#35852108)

That's not saying much. Pastafarianism, the worship of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, makes more sense than Scientology.

Re:Story of Beginning in this religion (2, Insightful)

Stormy Dragon (800799) | about 3 years ago | (#35852032)

4. We honor the beginning by copying and building magnificent things.

Oh please, 90% of the people who copy things haven't built anything, much less something that could be described as magnificent.

Re:Story of Beginning in this religion (1)

Toze (1668155) | about 3 years ago | (#35852220)

Michelangelo copied Ghiberti's "Gates of Paradise" for the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel. If 90% are useless, 10% are necessary.

Well this could work.. (1)

Erie Ed (1254426) | about 3 years ago | (#35851772)

I mean if Scientology can get accepted and treated like a legit religion (not that any of them are legit) then these guys could pull it off.

Re:Well this could work.. (0)

Concerned Onlooker (473481) | about 3 years ago | (#35852236)

So true. Mormonism was made up by Joseph Smith and was the equivalent of Scientology in its day. Look at it now. About as respectable as any religion I guess. And now we actually have some people trying to turn the Jedi myth into a religion. It's somewhat interesting watching the birth of a new religion. Or perhaps alarming is the word I'm looking for.

I just wish people could accept the truth of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. The world would be such a better place.

How long to catholic copying (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35851804)

How long before the Catholic church starts to mimic this movement to get more adepts???? They have been loosing people for years now and are becoming every time more desperate for young approval.

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my religion protects me as well (1)

OrangeTide (124937) | about 3 years ago | (#35851844)

it supports selling heroin to teenage runaways (this is how the god judge\). robbing convenience stores(money is the root of all evil, it must be liberated from non-believers). etc.

Computer religion from Sweden? (1)

Yvan256 (722131) | about 3 years ago | (#35851862)

If anything, the hex key should be the symbol of their religion.

Also, their bible should come in a kit that you must assemble yourself to prove you are worthy.

Re:Computer religion from Sweden? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35851926)

The text of the beginning will be shredded. In order to prove they are worthy the believers should build both the hardware and software to assemble the pieces into the one true COPY.

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Re:buy (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35852160)

Duh... ok, I go now.

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C-c C-v? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35851960)

So viewing LaTeX output in Emacs is sacred? Maybe they should just join the Church of Emacs. I think it is a bit more established. It even has it's own patron saint...

picking on U.S. compared to Sweden.. really? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35851962)

"they are at it again. defending the principles of modern society against private greed. because, most others that purported to do like the
US failed"

It's true that Sweden has followed the U.S's lead and improved upon our ideas. Look at their eugenics program. The US tried it but had to stop looong ago. Sweden was about the last country to officially end it. Force sterilize undesirable people to make a better society. It totally works !! The Nazi's followed the US ideas pretty well too. When did the US ever defend society against greed? WE are based on capitalism being a good thing. It's what made us the industrial powerhouse the of the world (until China took over) Greed is just a desire to have more. There is nothing wrong with it. People are not equal and some deserve to be better off because they are better, smarter, faster, whatever.

two side (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35851970)

Everything has a good side and bad side
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Greedy imperilaist Sweeds (1)

For a Free Internet (1594621) | about 3 years ago | (#35852094)

These greedy parasite imperialist Sweeds seem to think that all the electrons in the worl belong to them. Well they do not. And if you tryu and make copies with my electrons from me or my Country then you are in bi trobile. My electrons belong to my Nation and I am pround not that they are to be not Sweweedish not!!!!

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There is no such thing as Copy RIGHT (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#35852210)

Ecclesiastes 1: 9 What has been will be again,
        what has been done will be done again;
      there is nothing new under the sun.

Can anyone show me without a shadow of the doubt a case of true creativity, such as we consider most things to be in our copyright/trademark law.
Im willing to bet that no matter who or what you come up with i can prove that what anyone has ever acheived has not been of their own exclusive doing, but instead conceived on the backs of those who came before them. The concept of copyright is flawed. One cannot own ideas. Just as much as the earth does'nt really belong to any of us. Me and my Wife produced a child. 100% from the ground up. Do i own the child? Is it my property? Do i have the right to charge if someone sees my child without paying licensing fees?

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