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Sony Blames 'External Intrusion' For Lengthy PSN Outage

Soulskill posted more than 2 years ago | from the satisfaction-is-not-guaranteed dept.

PlayStation (Games) 321

Several readers have noted that outages on Sony's PlayStation Network have prevented online play for the past few days. The company has now blamed an 'external intrusion' for the trouble, saying they took down the network to "conduct a thorough investigation and to verify the smooth and secure operation of our network services going forward." Some suspect an attack by Anonymous, who declared war on Sony earlier this month, but Anonymous has disavowed knowledge of such an attack. Meanwhile, others are asking whether Sony should compensate users for the inability to play PS3 multiplayer modes, and even single-player modes on a few downloadable games.

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Right... (3, Funny)

Haedrian (1676506) | more than 2 years ago | (#35918032)

"Meanwhile, others are asking whether Sony should compensate users..."

Right, and while we're there I'd like some world peace too.

Re:Right... (3)

History's Coming To (1059484) | more than 2 years ago | (#35918244)

Looks like you'd enjoy Finland being in charge then. They ruled that removal of the OtherOS function was valued at around 100 euros ($145).
Slashdot thread [slashdot.org]

Re:Right... (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#35918294)

I am, in principle, not against Finland conquering the globe. They have a few nice things going, and the bit about Rome and the aqueducts from "Life of Brian" comes to mind.

Re:Right... (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#35918322)

Looks like you'd enjoy Finland being in charge then. They ruled that removal of the OtherOS function was valued at around 100 euros ($145).

Slashdot thread [slashdot.org]

I am seriously considering getting out of the US while the getting is good. I have always thought that the smaller European countries would be more pleasant places to live. They definitely seem to have saner governments that at least occasionally try to represent the people instead of automatically bowing to the megacorps. To be brutally honest I think the people there wouldn't be as self-centered, loudmouthed, fat, immature, inconsiderate, and stupid as most (tho definitely not all) Americans are. In USA being full of yourself is considered a virtue and that's the source of half of its problems.

You are partly confirming my idea that Finland wouldn't be a bad choice. Any idea what their immigration laws are like? Do you know if they would welcome an American who would like to naturalize and become Finnish?

Re:Right... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#35918348)

Please go. And let me know when you get back so I can point and laugh, and then show you this post so you can see what a fucking retard you sound like.

Re:Right... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#35918374)

Please go. And let me know when you get back so I can point and laugh, and then show you this post so you can see what a fucking retard you sound like.

Why's it retarded? Because you don't like it?

You think most Americans aren't fat? Look at the obesity stats sometime and compare them to anywhere in western Europe. You think most Americans aren't stupid? Look at what they tolerate from their own gov't and TSA and megacorps. Look at the performance of American schools and compare them to any western European country. The numbers speak for themselves.

I'm sorry that bruises your self-esteem or whatever your problem is. The US is an empire in decline. Read history books. The signs are known. You can witness them happening. We have seen this happen before. It will happen again. You don't want to be around when it happens. At least, I don't. Maybe you do. Maybe you think a police state is just groovy. Keep waving your flag and telling yourself everything is alright. I am sure I am just not patriotic enough for you, what with my concern for facts and numbers.

Re:Right... (3, Insightful)

_Sprocket_ (42527) | more than 2 years ago | (#35918486)

I would advise getting some world travel under your belt first - and not just the pre-packaged European holiday route.

Re:Right... (1)

errandum (2014454) | more than 2 years ago | (#35918336)

Blizzard has been doing this for ages now.

If they are not, they should. They might lose a few thousand dollars with it, but might win some loyal costumers that will spend 10x that.

1 person doing bad publicity is worth 10 saying good things about you, in terms of word of mouth. It'd be a smart play.

Blizzard is horrible (1)

elucido (870205) | more than 2 years ago | (#35918356)

With their dumb region locking and extremely anti-gamer policies.

Blizzard needs to get rid of region locks.

Re:Blizzard is horrible (1)

RuBLed (995686) | more than 2 years ago | (#35918470)

Well I could at least understand the region locking of Blizzard. Latency is not really a friend of WoW or SC2 and would hurt their matchmaking process. To their credit, we at SEA got US accounts also sometime after the release of SC2. For some reason, I have better latencies to US than to SEA. Maybe they realized that and allowed it.

Latency is a pathetic excuse. (2)

elucido (870205) | more than 2 years ago | (#35918478)

I'm on a 100Mbit connection, and so are many people. Latency is not the issue here.

Sure it can be a slight problem, but the original Starcraft did not have these region locks. Let the customer decide between dealing with potential latency issues or the region lock. I hate the concept of region locking, it makes no sense and defeats the purpose of internet gaming.

Re:Right... (1)

milkmage (795746) | more than 2 years ago | (#35918528)

If you're talking about WoW, they SHOULD compensate players because you pay for 30 days at a time, and if you can't play for a week, they effectivey "owe" that to you.. but PSN is free (plus subscribers not withstanding)..

if the do give players a freebie it will be for PR, not because they owe you anything.

Re:Right... (2)

NoobixCube (1133473) | more than 2 years ago | (#35918474)

I want Sony to compensate me for not being able to play multiplayer for the past several months. I haven't updated my PS3 since they removed OtherOS and decided they'd change the EULA to say they had the right to install and execute programs on my PS3 without my knowledge or consent. I'm also unable to get updates and DLC for the games I've legally purchased because of this. I doubt I'll ever get just recompense.

Re:Right... (1)

jmac_the_man (1612215) | more than 2 years ago | (#35918586)

"Meanwhile, others are asking whether Sony should compensate users..."

Right, and while we're there I'd like some world peace too.

Microsoft usually gives out a free game or something for extended (non-scheduled) outages. Of course, you're explicitly paying them for Live.

Anonymous (4, Informative)

Bovius (1243040) | more than 2 years ago | (#35918036)

I love the implication that Anonymous has a representative that can "disavow knowledge of such an attack."

Anonymous is not an organization! It's a bunch of jerks on the internet.

Re:Anonymous (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#35918058)

Just because Anons and the ill-informed continue to proclaim this doesn't make it entirely true. They organize, they're a group, they coordinate. No leader doesn't mean parts of the group don't take it upon themselves to declare and such. Anon even sent out a press release once during this debacle. Don't pretend they aren't organized and don't have people that do the talking, they do, no matter how much they want to pretend they don't.

Re:Anonymous (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#35918074)

The organization isnt hierichal more like through fractal consensus. (Groupsgroup reach consensus and inform other groups and act on it)

Re:Anonymous (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#35918070)

"They" do not disavow knowledge of the attack, as stated in the OP, they are just claiming to be not responsible (which proves they do have knowledge of the attack). If you had read the statement is that they say some Anons might be behind it, but it's not AnonOps.

Re:Anonymous (1)

Gadget_Guy (627405) | more than 2 years ago | (#35918372)

"They" do not disavow knowledge of the attack, as stated in the OP, they are just claiming to be not responsible (which proves they do have knowledge of the attack).

It proves no such thing. All It says is that Anonymous do not write 2 paragraph press releases in legalese. They did acknowledge that some Anons may be responsible, but that seems a reasonable to think that the hackers who could pull this off would be also count themselves as members of an organization that has no formal membership process.

Re:Anonymous (1)

jmac_the_man (1612215) | more than 2 years ago | (#35918616)

"They" do not disavow knowledge of the attack, as stated in the OP, they are just claiming to be not responsible (which proves they do have knowledge of the attack). If you had read the statement is that they say some Anons might be behind it, but it's not AnonOps.

I have knowledge of the attack too, because I read a Slashdot story about it. Of course they have knowledge of the attacks. But if the entire group that committed the attack is 4chan, (let's say), does that make it an attack by 4chan? It's not like they have a leader who can disavow people who do things they disagree with.

Anonymous represents something new (1, Interesting)

elucido (870205) | more than 2 years ago | (#35918092)

A new kind of organization. I would say Anonymous is a cyber intelligence organization, not just a collection of jerks.

If you don't take them seriously or look at them as a joke then you won't have a clue about whats coming next. Anonymous is going the direction WIkileaks went. This means they will build comprehensive intel files (dox) on Sony employees and on the employees of target corporations. This means they just use the internet, it does not mean Anonymous is strictly an internet organization.

http://playstationlifestyle.net/2011/04/04/anonymous-gets-serious-attacks-sony-employees/ [playstationlifestyle.net]

And it's a full fledged cyberwar with sides. You will have the commercial hackers who hack for corporations, and you'll have the hacktivists who hack for Anonymous. On top of this you'll also have informants for both groups. So if you side against Anonymous or against Sony, either or both sides will know about it. So at this time the best way to look at whats going on if you want to be smart about it is from a neutral stance. Don't diminish Anonymous unless you want to be targeted by Anonymous, and don't diminish Sony unless you want to be targeted by their hackers.

Remember Anonymous is also trying to take on the Koch Bros. They aren't going to be able to do that overnight as the Koch Bros have an intel network of their own of greater sophistication and funding. What Anonymous lacks is funding, a lot of the hard detective like work requires hiring private investigators. This is something Anonymous probably wont be able to afford unless private investigators volunteer their services to their operations or are extorted in some way into doing it.

But in the long term Anonymous is growing stronger at an exponential rate. Their only flaw at this moment in time is their relative inexperience and their silly tactics at times. They go from brilliant tactics at some points in time (such as hacking the email server at HBGaryFederal), to really dumb tactics like DDOSing Sony and taking down webpages. They don't seem to have strong leadership or a set methodology of objectives to pursue.

Re:Anonymous represents something new (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#35918174)

Anonymous isnt an organization. It's a joke.

A little league team has more influence than that "group."

Re:Anonymous represents something new (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#35918384)

I didn't know a little league team had the power to take down Visa, Paypal, and others. While it may not have much significance in world affairs you can't argue that those communicating with each other on the board are a joke or insignificant. They have gotten reactions and that in itself is sufficient to say some people who partake in anonymous communications aren't necessarily a joke. Little protests can move the world and that is what is happening. Be it those involved with wikileaks or the anonymous community.

Re:Anonymous represents something new (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#35918502)

It'll work for a little while, but the money will prevail. Anonymous has one thing hurting it - at some point, mommy and daddy stop subsidizing life, if for no other reason than they die. Everyone has to grow up, even idealistic kids who think taking on "the man" for the right to be entertained is actually a meaningful pursuit.

Re:Anonymous represents something new (3, Interesting)

powerlord (28156) | more than 2 years ago | (#35918526)

Anonymous is not an Organization, anymore than the Internet is.

They are Collectives. Controls are only followed when consensually agreed to with no real external enforcement. Damage is routed around, and there is no real Central Authority so much as a collective of groups/individuals who sometimes happen to be moving in the same direction when the mood takes them.

Re:Anonymous (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#35918128)

Anyone who visits 4chan regularly can be a spokesperson for Anonymous. There could be a rogue arm that conducted the raid ins ecret, but they seldom stay quite about these things.

Re:Anonymous (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#35918210)

but Anonymous has disavowed knowledge of such an attack

Summary is lame. Should have said, "AnonOps has disavowed knowledge".

Re:Anonymous (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#35918390)

no joke mr anonymous! lol

Cyberwarfare is serious, Sony better hire hackers (-1)

elucido (870205) | more than 2 years ago | (#35918046)

The situation is really obvious right now to anyone who is somewhat street smart. What is going on is the opening of a much wider cyberwar. Anonymous has now made corporations into their main target. As far as Sony goes I'm not really a fan of Sony, and I'm not a fan of most corporations. But Anonymous needs to understand just exactly what they are doing .This is war between Anonymous and Sony.

I've read on several websites that Anonymous plans to target employees next. If this is true it would represent a new phase in cyberwarfare but is actually a very normal set of circumstances when we are talking about standard conventional warfare.

In information warfare, secrets are useful. So they'll probably start by getting dox on some low level employees in critical positions. Then they'll leverage these initial dox to launch a private investigation to find dirt on Sony employees much like what opposition research is to politics. Once enough dirt is found to compromise the employee or the employee is set up or driven to compromise themselves, the employee will be in a position to be blackmailed or made into a puppet for Anonymous. The same process that intelligence agencies would use to entrap or coerce a target into giving up secret information, which then gets leveraged for more secret information and so on.

So what has to be understood here is that Sony is no real match for Anonymous. Anonymous may represent a sort of cyber intelligence group in the same way that Wikileaks is. And I think if they focused on corporations most people hate or cant stand, or are mad at, they'll probably have the support of the people. But they should not target the PSN servers. The gamers are not a demographic Anonymous wants to turn against them.

Also Anonymous should not expect Sony to take this lying down. Sony and others will begin hiring hackers and forming their own intelligence networks specifically to hunt and compromise Anonymous members. For that reason I think it's legitimate to consider this a real cyber war and not just a bunch of script kiddies doing pranks online. Anonymous has crossed the line into being a serious group in the same way Wikileaks has.

I don't agree with everything Anonymous has done, but in many cases such as taking on foreign dictators or going up against Sony, I actually think these were brave moves. The tactics on the other hand such as denial of service is the wrong tactic. And of course they are playing with fire going up against Sony, but it's still a brave move. They clearly have heart and aren't a bunch of know nothing script kiddies. Anonymous is serious.

Re:Cyberwarfare is serious, Sony better hire hacke (1)

headkase (533448) | more than 2 years ago | (#35918094)

Dude... Can I have a hit off your bong?

Wikileaks (0)

elucido (870205) | more than 2 years ago | (#35918132)

Watch the video or maintain your ignorance on the subject.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhTfOL9_HBE [youtube.com]

If Anonymous and Wikileaks don't represent cyberwarfare then there is no such thing as cyberwarfare.

Did Anonymous declare war? Yes.
Does Anonymous conduct operations? Yes.
Does Anonymous break the laws? Yes.
Does Anonymous have the capability to disrupt the economy? Yes.
Does Anonymous have a political objective? Yes.

And of course Anonymous has opposition groups who are also willing to break the laws and conduct operations to stop them. So if they aren't what you'd consider cyber warriors, and if this isn't a cyber war between Anonymous and their enemies, what would you call it?

Re:Wikileaks (1)

headkase (533448) | more than 2 years ago | (#35918150)

The video you linked to is about WikiLeaks. I believe you need to reexamine your thoughts to make sure you are not suffering from conflation [wikipedia.org].

Wikileaks and Anonymous are very similar (1)

elucido (870205) | more than 2 years ago | (#35918222)

If you look at the purpose and objectives held by both organizations they are very compatible and very similar. Anonymous takes direct action while Wikileaks typically was more of an intelligence organization. Julian Assange now being in jail has changed the role of Anonymous. Anonymous is now becoming a true intelligence organization rather than just a political direct action organization. Anonymous proved this when they leaked the HBGaryFederal emails. This is a move we would have expected from Wikileaks. Anonymous is now in the leaking business.

Anonymous is now in the intelligence business because once you start the domino effect and trigger the cyber war it doesn't end until you either win it, or all your members are in prison. So now they don't have much of a choice but to create a network of informants and this requires they build a more traditional intelligence network.

If you think I don't know what I'm talking about. Check back here a few months from now. It's obvious you don't keep track of Anonymous and probably haven't read much about them.

Re:Wikileaks (1)

Mashiki (184564) | more than 2 years ago | (#35918158)

How does a group with no centralized leadership do anything? Simple answer: It doesn't. Rather this is the guise of people doing something under a name. Beh I could get a group of people and call ourselves the Flying Monkey Butts of Uranus, and then start putting out inane blather.

Re:Wikileaks (1)

xMrFishx (1956084) | more than 2 years ago | (#35918216)

How does a group with no centralized leadership do anything? Simple answer: It doesn't.

Yeah the on going middle-eastern rebellions have something to say to you about that.

Anon hacked HBGaryFederal (3, Interesting)

elucido (870205) | more than 2 years ago | (#35918260)

They hacked HBGaryFederal and they leaked gigs of emails. If they can do this then they are no longer an organization that can't do anything. They've done something.

Re:Wikileaks (1)

_Sprocket_ (42527) | more than 2 years ago | (#35918500)

If Anonymous and Wikileaks don't represent cyberwarfare then there is no such thing as cyberwarfare.

I agree. There's no such thing as cyberwarfare.

Re:Cyberwarfare is serious, Sony better hire hacke (2)

francium de neobie (590783) | more than 2 years ago | (#35918122)

It doesn't work like that. Assuming both sides are highly competent, securing something is a fundamentally harder problem than breaking in. To break in, you only need to figure out one vulnerability. To secure something, you need to make sure every component - as big as a data center and as small as every single instruction sent to the CPUs - in your system, is invulnerable. Hiring hackers would only help if the engineering team is highly incompetent to start with (like, they aren't even aware of basic things like why strcpy() to a fixed buffer can be a very bad idea).

Humans are the vulnerability (4, Insightful)

elucido (870205) | more than 2 years ago | (#35918172)

It doesn't work like that. Assuming both sides are highly competent, securing something is a fundamentally harder problem than breaking in. To break in, you only need to figure out one vulnerability. To secure something, you need to make sure every component - as big as a data center and as small as every single instruction sent to the CPUs - in your system, is invulnerable. Hiring hackers would only help if the engineering team is highly incompetent to start with (like, they aren't even aware of basic things like why strcpy() to a fixed buffer can be a very bad idea).

You are underestimating the power of social engineers. If you have someones dox, if you have their social security number for example, and this someone happens to be either an employee for a rival corporation, within your own corporation, or anywhere else, it's very easy to build an intelligence file to find all their human vulnerabilities. Now if you want to see how vulnerable an entire corporation is, who is in charge of protecting the secret information or passwords or whatever? How psychologically stable as those people? If you have an intelligence file on every important employee within an organization, and you know which ones happen to be psychologically unstable, vulnerable to certain kinds of social engineering, etc, then you can probe the network for human weaknesses.

Which ones are most likely to write their passwords down and throw them in the trash? Which ones are most likely to go to an online dating service and meet a girl or guy? Knowing who is single, knowing who has what psychological disorder, knowing who cheats on their wife or husband, knowing anything which can be leveraged to compromise them. It's no different than in politics where politicians get targeted and corrupted over time, when enough eyes are on an employee then its only a matter of time before the employee does something which can put them in a compromised blackmailable position.

Once in that position then they have to choose between losing their wife/husband or losing their job. Once again blackmail, extortion, or outright social engineering where they think the boss told them to give the password, is usually all that is required to hack human networks. If you are trying to always hack it by technical means then yeah you'll have to hope there is some bug in the system but if you want to guarantee success you have to hack through all means, technical and social.

Wow (4, Interesting)

headhot (137860) | more than 2 years ago | (#35918056)

PSN has been down since Tuesday night, blowing the launches of Portal 2 (plus steam) and Mortal Kombat 30. The system is not still down for forensic or investigational issues, its down because they haven't figured out how to bring it back up. They are losing too much money and credibility having it down so long. My guess is they are poring though back up tapes right now. Some one owned them good.

Also, this didn't feel like a DDOS, with intermittent problem. PSN seems to have gone down hard. When Sony says "infiltrated," I think totally raped their systems.

Re:Wow (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#35918162)

It's not just the US/North American PSN that's down. It's Europe, Japan, and probably the rest as well.

I doubt very much that an unsophisticated attack would be able to simultaneous take down or infect all three networks (to a point they are at least somewhat individual networks). I am inclined to believe Sony who has stated that they have taken the PSN down themselves. I would speculate that could mean there have either been security breaches with regard to PSN Store encryption or consumer credit card information or something along those lines. Not knowing how the various PSNs are linked or how similar they are to one another, I would wonder if some sort of worm might be at work, but doubt that would be the case in this instance.

I highly doubt that Anonymous has anything to do with whatever Sony is investigating right now across all three major PSNs. And Amazon's services don't have anything to do with this either.

Re:Wow (1)

YesIAmAScript (886271) | more than 2 years ago | (#35918232)

I don't really agree it can't be because they don't know how to bring it back up.

If they feel all their systems are compromised, then they want to keep it down until it is completely deloused, otherwise they could risk an intruder turning every PS3 into a member of a botnet!

So they may be starting over from scratch or just having trouble finding a safe point to return to. This does show a level of incompetence (incomplete mastery of their own systems), but I don't really agree it has to be the full level of incompetence you mention of just not knowing how to bring their own systems back up.

It could be a psy-op (-1, Troll)

elucido (870205) | more than 2 years ago | (#35918380)

Sony also knows that turning gamers against Anonymous is a strong tactical advantage in the war against Anonymous. It's probably the only card they have to play.

We cannot put it past Sony to deliberately shut down the network and pin the blame on Anonymous.

That's ridiculous. (2)

YesIAmAScript (886271) | more than 2 years ago | (#35918422)

Sony has released absolutely no information blaming 4channers for this downtime or even for the downtime the 4channers took credit for.

You'd have to have a ridiculously high opinion of the 4chan vigilantes to think that Sony would take down their own network on a big release weekend just to smear them, especially when Sony isn't even bothering to make press releases smearing them.

How about this? We cannot put it past the 4channers to DDoS Sony again and just deny they are doing it because they don't like Sony but don't like taking heat for the customer inconvenience either.

I would suggest it is as mentioned elsewhere, that Sony has been throughly hacked by someone (perhaps the 4channers) and that their systems are so compromised they don't feel safe bringing them back online and risk further compromises or some compromised code in their system being activated remotely and triggering some kind of outgoing attack or action.

Re:Wow (4, Insightful)

cgenman (325138) | more than 2 years ago | (#35918342)

The system is not still down for forensic or investigational issues, its down because they haven't figured out how to bring it back up.

Generally, the worst attacks are the ones when you can't figure out how much access people still have, what they did while they were there, and whether or not it is safe to bring the system back online. If someone got root on Sony's update servers, you'd better believe those are staying offline. A problem there could leave Sony on the hook for the cost of 50 million very expensive plastic bricks. Similarly, someone with deep PSN access might be able to leverage that into accessing Sony's other internal systems, which could include things like VAIO firmware, manufacturing robots, sony picture entertainment, and baseball fields full of money.

Keep 'em down for a few days to do your security homework, or suffer a bigger break later.

Re:Wow (4, Interesting)

powerlord (28156) | more than 2 years ago | (#35918514)

If someone got root on Sony's update servers, you'd better believe those are staying offline.

Then feel secure that those aren't the problem.

I was playing a Demo recently and it informed me there was an update available. System downloaded the update and loaded it, even though PSN is still down and I still can't log in.

I heard a rumor that they found people circumventing the checkout/purchase system in some way. If that is true, then they may be keeping the system down while they fix that.

Two more plausible explanations:

1) someone used the fact that PS3s internal key has been exposed to try to craft code to go after the Login/Pay servers through the PS3 directly, on the idea that Sony programmed those interfaces on the assumption that they are secure, and only produced well formed code, leaving a chink in the armor. If that IS the case, then Sony may have shut down the whole system rather than letting it sit open and exposed once they detected the intrusion, in an effort to head off data theft (while they rewrite the interface?).

2) someone could have been performing a Denial of Service attack, again through internal PS3 calls which were expected to be well formed.

This is why I don't like online (5, Insightful)

Psychotria (953670) | more than 2 years ago | (#35918066)

I guess it's great for the content providers and their DRM, but when I can't play a single player game because either their servers are down, or I don't happen to have a connection at the time is annoying and stupid. (I don't have a Playstation, but several single player games on Steam behave in the same, or similar, way; e.g. f1-2010 I can't save progress without the internet because apart from steam, which launches the game just fine, there is the crazy Live-Games for Windows (or whatever it's called). Why I can't save progress is beyond me as the save games appear to be local files, but that's just how it is.

Re:This is why I don't like online (2)

smellotron (1039250) | more than 2 years ago | (#35918112)

I guess it's great for the content providers and their DRM, but when I can't play a single player game because either their servers are down, or I don't happen to have a connection at the time is annoying and stupid.

FWIW, I do own a PS3 and I haven't been prevented from playing single-player games nor watching Netflix. In fact, the Netflix application claims to require a PSN connection, but if you keep allowing the PSN authentication to fail you discover that the warning is more bark than bite.

Re:This is why I don't like online (1)

hedwards (940851) | more than 2 years ago | (#35918332)

Not really, isn't the PSN requirement to download the app and for updates? At least that was my impression and the main reason why it annoyed me that they got rid of the disc.

Re:This is why I don't like online (1)

powerlord (28156) | more than 2 years ago | (#35918538)

Game Updates are working fine now (don't know about earlier), even though PSN itself is still down and can't log in.

They might be related services, but they seem to be different servers.

Now, I'd LOVE to know why the Hulu+ program needs me to log in, when I also had to tie the PS3 to my Hulu+ account. Wish that worked the way the Netflix clients seem to be.

Re:This is why I don't like online (1)

cmeans (81143) | more than 2 years ago | (#35918456)

I had Netflix working earlier today, but later in the evening I was unable to get anything to playback...that was after even logging into my Netflix account directly through the Netflix app on the PS3.

Best three days I've had with my son (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#35918078)

This has been the best time that my 15 year old son and I have had since the PlayStation arrived in December. With the network dead, we went bicycling and bowling (his top score was 134); he showed me how to solve the last layer (well the OLL) of the Rubik's Cube.

I deeply thank whoever did this, and I wish you only the best!
  -CS in Berkeley

Re:Best three days I've had with my son (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#35918116)

134 in bowling? guess you should have gotten him a wii.

Re:Best three days I've had with my son (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#35918118)

Amen to that.

What about single player? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#35918420)

Can't your son still play single player games?

Re:Best three days I've had with my son (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#35918496)

Great parenting skill.

Well it could be worse (3, Funny)

Jafafa Hots (580169) | more than 2 years ago | (#35918110)

At least an external intrusion is better than an internal extrusion.

Re:Well it could be worse (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#35918220)

So, that is what happens in Aliens when they burst out of their vicitms chests.

Excuse me? (-1)

matty619 (630957) | more than 2 years ago | (#35918114)

others are asking whether Sony should compensate users for the inability to play PS3 multiplayer modes

Compensate customers for what? PSN is free last time I checked. If it was Xbox and their $50/year gold membership crap, ya, ok, let's have that discussion, but you can't compensate something for which no reoccurring fee is charged.

I'd cut Sony some slack on this front. Network subscription fees are a no go for someone like me who only plays console games online occasionally. I'll take the occasional outage in return for not paying $50/mo for something I only occasionally use.

Re:Excuse me? (2)

Walter White (1573805) | more than 2 years ago | (#35918176)

PSN is required to play Netflix streaming service on a PS3. While the network is down, I'm limited to the disks I have on hand. Some folks pay for streaming only and are left with nothing.

Re:Excuse me? (0)

matty619 (630957) | more than 2 years ago | (#35918190)

Once again, Xbox charges $50/year for the privilege of watching Netflix movies. You wanna pay $50/year, or accept the occasional service disruption?

Re:Excuse me? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#35918214)

It isn't. Start netflix up, it will bring up a sign-on dialog. Pick sign-on, Netflix should start up, it will ask to sign-in again, attempt to sign-on again and you should be all set.

Re:Excuse me? (1)

slinches (1540051) | more than 2 years ago | (#35918234)

Netflix is working even though PSN is down. When you start the Netflix app it prompts for a login about three times, but after that it works normally. I've used it a couple of times since the PSN troubles started. Just keep attempting to sign in and it'll eventually let you through.

Netflix still works (1)

pavon (30274) | more than 2 years ago | (#35918236)

I've heard that is actually isn't, although it can appear that way. It will give you a warning that PSN is down, but if you keep clicking through, then you can play it fine. See the discussion at ars [arstechnica.com].

Re:Netflix still works (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#35918552)

Yup.. it still works. If it gives me an error.when I try to sign in or brings up the sign in again, I just hit the back button (O) and it drops me.right.back into Netflix and everything plays fine. Been doing.it this way for about a week now

Re:Excuse me? (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#35918194)

the price of PSN is folded into the cost of the console. there is no monthly fee, but it isn't free.

Re:Excuse me? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#35918274)

It's free? Funny, my Playstation cost something like $300. Please to explain the free.

Re:Excuse me? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#35918286)

You are generous; I do not cut Sony any slack at all.

PS3s are locked to use PSN or nothing. Right now, it may be free, but Sony can easily start charging, and people will either buy it, or dump their PS3s. Especially if PSN is required to authenticate games via a DRM mechanism [1]. If Sony had alternate methods for devices to communicate, having PSN go down is excusable, but because it is the only way to have PS3s interact with each other, even free, Sony has the responsibility to maintain it, that, or patch consoles to offer alternate methods. Sony chose to play hardball in this department, so they should not be garnering sympathy.

So, if Sony locks people in a walled garden, they have a responsibility to either be maintaining the plants and the statues, open the gates, or let it be known that they are unable to provide support for what they sell.

Blackhats are just another IT issue, same with faulty hard disks, and backhoes on the OC lines. If Sony gets hacked, they need to hire more security people, start doing post-mortems, and deal with it, just like every single IT department is tasked to do. Either deal with it, or drop the injunctions against Geohot so independents can fix Sony's problems for them.

[1]: Of course, in the game's EULA it will be stated that PSN is a requirement for access to the game.

Re:Excuse me? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#35918306)

We pay a monthly fee for the Qriocity music service. It too is down.

Re:Excuse me? (1)

Stupendoussteve (891822) | more than 2 years ago | (#35918604)

This would be more of an issue if it was free.

I remember when Xbox Live was down for something like 11 days, and I do not remember being compensated (maybe I was though, I really don't remember).

Netflix Streaming on PS3 also down (1)

mattlmattlmattl (229778) | more than 2 years ago | (#35918200)

For some reason, the Netflix program requires that the user be signed in to PSN so while it's down, no streaming movies.
I can't imagine a technical reason for this requirement - Netflix streaming works over the internet, so why require the PSN
sign-in?

It reminds me of the Amazon Appstore being required (installed and running) to run any apps downloaded with it.

Re:Netflix Streaming on PS3 also down (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#35918224)

Works fine for me. I just have to keep attempting to sign on. (Normally twice)

Re:Netflix Streaming on PS3 also down (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#35918246)

When I get the prompt to sign in to PSN for Netflix, I select login, get a notice that the network is down for maintenance, and then I can go ahead and watch my straming Video. The problem I is with HULU, I get the notice and then I am redirected back to the login screen.

Re:Netflix Streaming on PS3 also down (1)

poormanjoe (889634) | more than 2 years ago | (#35918262)

Either you don't have a PS3 or are lazy. If you just load it up, and wait for it to sign in it does, even though you cant sign in.

try this... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#35918580)

I haven't tried it, but have seen it mentioned that if you fail a few time logging in netflix will just work without being logged in to PSN.

Compensation? (0)

topham (32406) | more than 2 years ago | (#35918270)

Compensation?

Remember, if there is any level of compensation that Sony has every right to expect that if the hackers are caught the cost of this down time can be taken out of their ass.

Don't come back here and bitch when Sony wants a few million from them.

Personal Data? (5, Insightful)

thecombatwombat (571826) | more than 2 years ago | (#35918316)

What blows my mind is that people are asking whether or not they should be compensated, when will the service will be back up, and who's responsible, but not so much "is my credit card that the PSN stores secure?" How is this not the first thing Sony gives an update on when they officially say this is due to an attack?

I've been looking at the comments on every post I see about this. At first I was hoping for an answer, and now I'm mostly just curious. This seems to be the very least of everyone's concerns.

Anonymous isn't after that. (0)

elucido (870205) | more than 2 years ago | (#35918362)

It depends on the nature of the group. Anonymous is a politically oriented cyber intelligence organization. They aren't after money, if they were they'd be working for corporations.

Re:Personal Data? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#35918524)

Who cares? Credit card owners have next to zero liability if their card number is stolen. It's at worse a minor inconvenience.

Is PSN in any way linked to EC2 ? (1)

ZincFinger (982714) | more than 2 years ago | (#35918318)

Could it be that EC2's problems and PSN's are linked ? Have no clue myself, but seems to me PSN need large scalable bandwidth. Does anyone know where PSN is hosted ? How does it work says with COD ? Are COD servers on PSN or is PSN just a relay ?

Another point of view... (1)

s0litaire (1205168) | more than 2 years ago | (#35918412)

Who's Sony been suing lately?
This might be named party's counter-offer.... ^_^

Sony and their Lawyers...
If you can't beat them.. DDoS'em! ^_~

What's worse? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#35918414)

What's worse, an external intrusion or an internal extrusion?

I think they both sound pretty painful, tbh.

"Freedom fighters" seem tyrants as well. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#35918436)

Sure; its for "a better cause" but in the mean time no one bothers to think about those people who have no issue with any of this and were only looking into playing some cool PS3 games online this Eastern weekend.

No, we just have "to cope" because you arrogant asses think to have a beef with Sony.

Yet it seems you feel sooo strong about your cause that you couldn't do it alone and needed to disrupt the entire PSN userbase to get something going.

There is a catch here.. I don't like conspiracy theories but what if Sony did this to put blame on the other party? That we'll never know..

But considering the general way those "hackers" have portrayed themselves in the past and the rather explicit aggressive way some of them used wouldn't come as a surprise if this is the real deal.

And in that case I say: Fuck you assholes!

It's Skynet! (1)

plopez (54068) | more than 2 years ago | (#35918458)

First it came for our google. Now it has gone after Sony PS. Do you need more proof? Are we going to wait for it to attack something important like Facebook or Twitter?

I'm glad I have a dog as part of our family...

Define external intrusion (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#35918468)

This could mean too many PlayStation users were trying to connect to PSN all at once. Until Sony more clearly defines what the external intrusion is, we really can't assume too much other than Sony wasn't prepared to handle whatever it was that happened.

Nonetheless, regardless of how PSN went offline, in the end it is Sony, and Sony alone, that is accountable to its customers who are left hanging.

jendela informasi (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#35918498)

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You are forgetting ONE thing... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#35918504)

Guys... I cant watch netflix on my PS3... :(

screw the games, i want my netflix.

Re:You are forgetting ONE thing... (1)

nedlohs (1335013) | more than 2 years ago | (#35918608)

You're doing it wrong. Netflix works fine without being logged into PSN...

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