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77 Million Accounts Stolen From Playstation Network

CmdrTaco posted more than 3 years ago | from the oh-yeah-this'll-be-fine dept.

Sony 645

Runaway1956 was one of many users to continue to update us about the intrusion we've been following this week. "Sony is warning its millions of PlayStation Network users to watch out for identity-theft scams after hackers breached its security and plundered the user names, passwords, addresses, birth dates, and other information used to register accounts. Sony's stunning admission came six days after the PlayStation Network was taken down following what the company described as an 'external intrusion'. The stolen information may also include payment-card data, purchase history, billing addresses, and security answers used to change passwords, Sony said on Tuesday. The company plans to keep the hacked system offline for the time being, and to restore services gradually. The advisory also applies to users of Sony's related Qriocity network."

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It only... (2)

zppln (2058178) | more than 3 years ago | (#35952940)

steals everything.

passwords? (5, Insightful)

jaymz666 (34050) | more than 3 years ago | (#35952952)

Seriously? They were storing passwords in a way that could be unencrypted?

Re:passwords? (1, Interesting)

Moryath (553296) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953046)

Not only that:

- If you wanted to play any of the games online, you had to have a PSN account. Which meant you had to provide a credit card whether you were ever going to buy anything or not.

- Certain companies liked to tie PSN accounts to their forum accounts.

End result: massive security headache for every user who's ever touched PSN for any reason.

Extra fun: waiting while their entire network is down, to play basically online-only (or "so much online component that the single-player is a fucking joke") games. You know, like Call of Duty: Crap Ops.

To paraphrase Obi-Wan, It was as if millions of voices suddenly cried out... and then were suddenly made to change their passwords.

Re:passwords? (0)

lorenlal (164133) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953078)

Netflix users on PS3 are SOL too.

Re:passwords? (2)

adam.dorsey (957024) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953272)

No, if you keep hammering on Netflix it lets you in eventually. It just bitches at you.

Re:passwords? (2)

teeloo (766817) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953312)

Well actually if you're on Netflix US, you can still log on and watch as normal on the PS3. Netflix Canada does not work though. I have both accounts, so this is from personal experience.

Re:passwords? (3, Informative)

xavierpayne (697081) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953314)

This is not true. The Netflix app does ask you to log in to the PSN but after 3 failed attempts it lets you into the netflix app anyway and I thus far I haven't encountered any problems streaming even with the PSN itself down.

Re:passwords? (1)

tripleevenfall (1990004) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953094)

I think it's horrendous that they force you to provide credit card info.

I wonder if, when this comes back online, if I could go in and hash my credit card info and I could still use online functions?

Re:passwords? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35953102)

You do not have to provide your credit card information unless you are going to buy something. To simply sign on and play online or peruse the store does not require a credit card on file.

Re:passwords? (2)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953146)

I never did provide a CC, when did they ask for that. Mind you I have a PSN account used only for netflix.

Re:passwords? (2)

somersault (912633) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953390)

He was talking out of his ass. You only need to provide card info to buy stuff from the store or get a PSN Plus account. Standard accounts are free.

Re:passwords? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35953230)

Get your fucking facts straight.
1. You do not need a CC to get a PSN account. You only need one to buy something, and even then you could buy PSN credits at the store, and buy things on PSN without ever providing a valid credit card number.
2. The game companies that allow you to tie your forum account to your PSN account are irrelevant. None of them require you to give them your PSN password.

This situation sucks, and Sony fucked up big time, but this bullshit FUD everyone is spewing is not helping.

Re:passwords? (5, Informative)

Kuukai (865890) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953234)

- If you wanted to play any of the games online, you had to have a PSN account. Which meant you had to provide a credit card whether you were ever going to buy anything or not.

Wrong. This is not true at all. You can play games without ever providing a credit card. On the other hand, they do require your name, birthdate, and mailing address.

Re:passwords? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35953274)

And I gave them a made-up name, fake address, and I don't even remember what birthdate I put in. I also never tied a credit card to the account. One password change and I'm good to go.

Re:passwords? (5, Insightful)

gstoddart (321705) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953406)

Wrong. This is not true at all. You can play games without ever providing a credit card. On the other hand, they do require your name, birthdate, and mailing address.

And people wonder why so many on-line accounts are set up with completely bogus information.

Why should I be providing all of this information to play *(&^%*&^ video games? This is precisely why I don't give most companies this information -- because I don't trust them with it. Not to keep it safe, not to use it as they say, and not to provide it to someone else.

Re:passwords? (4, Insightful)

schnell (163007) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953334)

As a previously happy PS3 user, I'm infuriated at their shoddy handling of this whole thing. The delay in notifying customers was inexcusable, and I still don't understand how passwords could have been compromised... I refuse to believe that even Sony would have stored them in plaintext. The only thing that makes sense to me is that they were stored in hashes but Sony is concerned that the hashed passwords are subject to brute force attacks. I spent a good chunk of last night changing all my online passwords that were the same as the one used in my PS3 account, and that meant dozens of accounts. (Thank goodness none of them were bank-related.) I guess that I should have moved to a system of unique passwords for each site before, and this finally forced me to do it.

I am struggling to find a bright spot anywhere in this, but if I were to find one it would be that Sony must understand how badly they have pooched this situation. I would expect some serious mea culpas and free crap out of them (like free PlayStation Plus for a year or something) out of this. I don't know whether I actually want that, but it should be interesting to watch them grovel for my online trust and/or business back.

FUD (2)

dreamchaser (49529) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953398)

"- If you wanted to play any of the games online, you had to have a PSN account. Which meant you had to provide a credit card whether you were ever going to buy anything or not."

Completely wrong. I have a PSN account and never, ever gave them credit card info.

Re:passwords? (1)

somersault (912633) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953054)

Sad face :/ I guess I should cancel my credit card too.

Re:passwords? (1)

jewelises (739285) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953088)

This seems like an amateur mistake. Who are these companies hiring lately?

At the very least, hash and salt. If the hashes might be stolen then hash it thousands of times (see PBKDF2).

Re:passwords? (5, Insightful)

0123456 (636235) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953152)

This seems like an amateur mistake. Who are these companies hiring lately?

The lowest bidder?

Re:passwords? (4, Interesting)

marcansoft (727665) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953224)

This seems like an amateur mistake.

About as amateur as using a static constant instead of a random number when signing firmware and games, which is exactly what they did (and which pretty much cost them their entire system security).

Re:passwords? (5, Funny)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953166)

My DARE officer told me that hash is illegal, and my health teacher says that salt causes high blood pressure...

Re:passwords? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35953238)

i would've modded you funny if you stopped at "hash is illegal".

Re:passwords? (2)

outsider007 (115534) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953320)

Is that because you don't understand what salt means in that context or because you realized that AC's can't mod posts?

Re:passwords? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35953380)

Aw, snap!

(Not the same AC.)

Might not be bad... (4, Interesting)

Junta (36770) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953242)

There are two schools of thought here...

If the passsword is stored as a hash on the server, then it is more resistant to attacks against the storage of the server. However, this does require the password be transmitted over the wire in one way or another on every connection. A man-in-the-middle attack with ip spoofing or dns cache poisioning has a non-trivial shot at compromising the password.

If the password is stored 'in the clear' on the server side and treat the password as a shared secret, then *if* you design the authentication right, you render man in the middle infeasible with the tradeoff of storage attack being a large exposure. A common scheme is to have client have a packet, concatenate with the password, calculate hash, then strip password before transmit. Server then repeats calculation and only accepts payload if secret matches. Usually, server responses are protected the same way, meaning only the server you *meant* to talk to can meaningfully respond because it needs your password to calculate correct hash responses.

All that said, it's also entirely likely that Sony has crypted hash passwords, but it's safer to say 'your password is compromised', because of how many users have passwords like 'yourmom65' rendering the hashing pointless.

Re:Might not be bad... (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35953416)

actually, you can store the password as a hash _and_ not transmit it in clear for authentication...

1. server has hashed pw + salt1
2. server randomly generates salt2, sends salt1 and salt 2
3. client calculates x == hash(hash(pw, salt1), salt2)), sends it to server
4. server calculates hash(hashed pw, salt2) and compares to x

result: server has hashed pw and pw is never transmitted in clear...

I guess I didnt miss much (-1, Flamebait)

StillNeedMoreCoffee (123989) | more than 3 years ago | (#35952956)

I have on occasion lamented that I did not get involved with online gaming. Well maybe it was for the best. As we know the gaming where you run around killing and maiming and destroying promotes good character.

Re:I guess I didnt miss much (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35952994)

Go ahead, blame the victims. I bet you feel so superior now.

Re:I guess I didnt miss much (1)

StillNeedMoreCoffee (123989) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953296)

No not superior, sad really, sad for the loss, sad for the fact that someone feels that that type of behavior is acceptible, sad when I see a 6 year old friends son cutting people appart with a sword with no sense of what he is doing or how it may be affecting his moral compass. What is that big popular game "Grand Theft Auto"? now thats a title that inspires accepting that there is no moral impact to gamming.

Re:I guess I didnt miss much (-1, Flamebait)

vlm (69642) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953210)

As we know the gaming where you run around killing and maiming and destroying promotes good character.

Have any of the anti-video game semi-religious nutcases declared this situation to be an act of an angry God against sinners? Maybe if god himself makes the buffer overflow or whatever that cracked it, it takes a long time to get it fixed...

Re:I guess I didnt miss much (0)

StillNeedMoreCoffee (123989) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953410)

Certainly I am not anti-video game. Maybe anti-morally bankrupt video game. You know "Grand Theft Auto" or any game that gives you 10 ways to kill and mame or steal or pillage, human or other species. I just think you have to overcome some natural prohibitions on killing in your intellectual side to actually do and enjoy those games. The kill or be killed mentality practiced on the killing fields say daily fosters good social behaviors. There are good competitive video games that foster positive social skills. I don't think you can argue that these games are neutral when it comes to behavioral traning.

DRM (3, Funny)

UninformedCoward (1738488) | more than 3 years ago | (#35952962)

Hows that online requirement DRM working out for you guys?

~UC

Re:DRM (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35953276)

Don't worry ,the cognitive dissonance will set in and they'll blame "them evil hackers", not Sony, for being unable to play their precious games offline. The people must have their soma.

skynet (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35952964)

skynet is trying to steal my identity!

Sony isn't using the term "massive identity theft" (5, Funny)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 3 years ago | (#35952970)

They're calling it an "unexpected mass friendship opportunity."

Re:Sony isn't using the term "massive identity the (2)

Bloodwine77 (913355) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953024)

You did not lost your identity, you gained additional account holders!

Re:Sony isn't using the term "massive identity the (1)

DamienRBlack (1165691) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953096)

It isn't identity theft, it's identity loaning. You know, like what you do to our games. That'll teach you to pirate. /sony

Re:Sony isn't using the term "massive identity the (2)

sakdoctor (1087155) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953098)

Massively Unexpected Online Identity Theft.

The only way to win...

SonyDownhill (2, Interesting)

thestudio_bob (894258) | more than 3 years ago | (#35952974)

Gee, Sony just catch a break lately. I'm wondering if they are going to be asked to appear before the US Senate to explain their actions, just like Apple and Google? I think this is a little more serious than just tracking my phone location.

Re:SonyDownhill (2)

vlm (69642) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953280)

I'm wondering if they are going to be asked to appear before the US Senate to explain their actions,

http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/lookup2.php?strID=C00282038 [opensecrets.org]

$211,925 tries to say "No"

Google sent four times that just to Barack Obama alone, and that didn't save them.

So I'm guessing the answer will be "Yes"

Unencrypted = Stupid (4, Informative)

Bloodwine77 (913355) | more than 3 years ago | (#35952978)

It amazes me that a company as large and established as Sony would make such a boneheaded move as storing sensitive information in plaintext. Passwords and answers to secret questions should always be hashed. Credit card information and other sensitive information should be encrypted (preferably AES-256 or stronger).

Re:Unencrypted = Stupid (4, Interesting)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953028)

We need laws for this crap now. Someone doesn't even try to use adequate obfuscation, they are accessories. Specifically, for protection of SSNs (yes I know the fact that they are good for so much is stupid, but we live in reality) and credit card numbers, and anything else equivalent.

Re:Unencrypted = Stupid (4, Insightful)

0123456 (636235) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953030)

Why are you surprised that big companies would do stupid things? Particularly one who thought that installing rootkits on peoples' computers when they played a CD was a pretty darn cool idea?

Re:Unencrypted = Stupid (1)

alen (225700) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953090)

Engineer - yes we can make it secure, we just need another 3 months to code and test it

PHB - no way, XBL is kicking our a$$. we release tomorrow. we'll just add a firewall and use the cloud to secure the data

Re:Unencrypted = Stupid (1)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953240)

I'm assuming that the credit card portion of the system had to pass PCI DSS tests, which would presumably mean some form of encryption in use. Presumably, though, it didn't preclude some sort of boneheaded-but-efficient(since, after all, PSN CC information would presumably be being retrieved a lot for casual game purchases and the like) storage of the keys/credentials in some vulnerable spot.

Re:Unencrypted = Stupid (1)

Random2 (1412773) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953254)

RTFA?

Likely does not mean certainty. Stop hyping speculation.

Sony a hardware company not a software one so that (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35953258)

Sony a hardware company not a software one so that why the keys are in hardware and not software.

Re:Unencrypted = Stupid (1)

blueg3 (192743) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953294)

Passwords should be stored as hashes, yes. Answers to secret questions can only really be stored as hashes if you insist on people reproducing spelling, capitalization, and punctuation accurately and you don't intend to use the secret questions for over-the-phone authentication. Other sensitive information can be encrypted, but obviously an automated system that *uses* that information must have access to the encryption key necessary to decrypt the data. Sure, you can have your database and the system that uses the sensitive information on separate systems, but if a person just hacks in to both, they can decrypt the database's data.

If you can't decrypt and use the sensitive information, there's no reason to store it in the first place.

Re:Unencrypted = Stupid (2)

_0xd0ad (1974778) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953422)

Answers to secret questions can only really be stored as hashes if you insist on people reproducing spelling, capitalization, and punctuation accurately and you don't intend to use the secret questions for over-the-phone authentication.

Spelling - yes; but capitalization and punctuation can just be ignored. Strip punctuation, convert to all-lowercase, then hash.

Re:Unencrypted = Stupid (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35953442)

Answers to secret questions can only really be stored as hashes if you insist on people reproducing spelling, capitalization, and punctuation accurately and you don't intend to use the secret questions for over-the-phone authentication.

Except 'secret questions' are retarded, so no-one should be using them for authentication in the first place.

The great thing is that if joebob@hotmail.com actually gave his mother's real maiden name when asked that as a 'security question' and did it again on another site using the same email address, that account is now toast.

'Security questions' are just another layer of passwords except people reuse those passwords on different sites and they're easy to guess if you know the person in question and they actually answer honestly. This is why my mother's maiden name is 3x7R%t.

Re:Unencrypted = Stupid (3, Informative)

rsmith-mac (639075) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953338)

To give Sony all the credit they deserve (however little it is), the sensitive records like passwords probably weren't stored in plaintext.

It's standard operating procedure at most companies to treat any data breaches as if the data was plaintext and will be immediately exploited. Once the hackers have taken the data, you have no way to tell if they have a way to decrypt/reverse it or not, so you simply assume they do.

At the same time.almost no one feels like explaining to users what password hashes are and why their data is probably safe, so the public announcements always reflect the assumption above and present the worst case scenario to users, and maybe encryption is mentioned somewhere. Whether the data was decrypted or not, if you say it was then you've covered your ass. It's not as if most laypeople believe that the encryption will hold anyhow.

In short, Sony's pretty damned stupid, but whether anything was encrypted or not they're going to treat it as if it wasn't, and their warnings are going to reflect that. Just because they aren't talking about it being encrypted doesn't mean it was stored in plaintext. The resolution is the same either way: assume the bad guys have it in plaintext form, and watch your credit reports.

Re:Unencrypted = Stupid (1)

Junta (36770) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953358)

Passwords and answers to secret questions should always be hashed

Does approximately zero good if 90% of your users have trivial passwords. In fact, 'secret answers' will almost *always* be simple, one-word english text, rendering hashes meaningless. Even if Sony did do hashing, they are going to keep it simply and say "you're screwed" to avoid setting expectations high for people with crappy passwords.

Credit card information and other sensitive information should be encrypted (preferably AES-256 or stronger).

If you compromise a running system, then many bets are off here. They could have done this and either:
-Every user logged in at the time had their password in memory so that they could decrypt (assuming password is the key to per-user crypto-protected storage)
-The filesystem was using crypto-protection for offline attacks, but given an online attack, the encryption didn't matter (global crypto-protected storage).

No one should say 'It's encrypted, it's all ok', they should think hard about what it *means* and what the exposures are.

Re:Unencrypted = Stupid (2)

vlm (69642) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953420)

It amazes me that a company as large and established as Sony would make such a boneheaded move as storing sensitive information in plaintext.

If you remove the assumption that they were owned the same day they were shut down, the logical result is they got owned 77 million card entries ago... Sniff and store each new CC... Months / Years later they get noticed, oops.

That would also fit with why they didn't restore from backups onto bare metal on day one and be back online within 24 hours. If the backups, going back months or years, are all perfect backups of the infection...

Re:Unencrypted = Stupid (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35953424)

Question: what's the best way to store the answer to a secret question, if you only intend to ever ask the user to provide the xth and yth character at any one time (ostensibly to provide some protection against key capture software on single use public machines)?

Credit card numbers WERE taken too (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35952984)

I posted this in the last thread, but PSN users are already seeing their credit cards being fraudulently used! [vgn365.com]

So if you're affected, CANCEL YOUR CARD!

It's not a possibility anymore, it's a certainty.

Makes you wonder... (4, Insightful)

Junta (36770) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953400)

In a world with plenty of well understood crypto schemes like public-private key systems where you can prove yourself without a shared secret... why the hell do we trust so much of our wealth with a trivial to see/copy account number being tossed around like crazy?

big deal (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35953002)

Barack Obama finally released his birth certificate. The "born in kenya" theories seemed pretty far-fetched, yet plausible. I'm glad he finally cleared that up. He's still incompetent, but at least he was born in the US.

Re:big deal (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35953368)

Why was this moderated down? Is there a racist moderator trying to hide the truth: that Barack Obama is a natural born American citizen? Typical chickenshit behavior. You're afraid to say that you hate blacks so you accuse him of not being an American. And then try to hide the truth.

Mr Schadenfreude (1)

maroberts (15852) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953008)

is alive and well here

Firmware (1)

joeflies (529536) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953020)

Sony tried to prevent the release of custom firmware due to concerns that it could be used for things other than running linux or homebrew. Perhaps their is some validity to those concerns.

Re:Firmware (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35953110)

What does the firmware on the box have to do with anything???
If they really were using something in the firmware as a substitute for network security they are bigger idiots then they are getting credit for.
The custom firmware spat was more about Sony wanting to keep content channle closed so that anyone that waned to release a game had to give Sony a cut.

Re:Firmware (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35953310)

I think you nailed it.

They did something very sloppy they trusted the client.

Indeed they are not getting enough idiot credit, they are much much bigger idiots.

Re:Firmware (1)

DamienRBlack (1165691) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953134)

Perhaps they should have secured there network correctly and not counted on the hardware in the user's hands to do it for them.

Re:Firmware (1)

shentino (1139071) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953158)

Custom firmware is just an excuse to bash geohot.

The bottom line is that trusting the client to handle security for you is a bonehead move. You just don't do that period.

Considering that PSN is accessed over the internet, and consequently exposed to machines other than PS3's, you'd think that Sony could be more careful.

Re:Firmware (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35953180)

If all that was needed to compromize 77 million accounts was modified client firmware then I wouldn't trust Sony to put together a sandwich, let alone a secure payment network. You never trust the client; that's rule #1.

Re:Firmware (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953214)

No. Trusting the client is moronic. Perhaps if they had not been such morons they would not have had such issues.

Re:Firmware (5, Insightful)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953354)

Never. Trust. The. Client.

If their online systems' security depends on all clients playing by a specific set of rules, it is Broken.(even barring custom firmware, PS3s communicate over the internet via reasonably normal protocols, so it isn't as though the public-facing infrastructure was ever invisible to PCs running whatever people wanted them to run).

Especially for something as large and potentially valuable as 77 million accounts, many with cards on file, there would just be no way that you could make the client secure enough to serve as a trusted part of your security system: your pirate will give up if you can't flash a firmware in software or do a relatively simple mod-chip install. A more serious hacker might be willing do dump some ROMs, if possible, maybe snoop bus traces if they can get to them, install mod chips that require SMT skills, etc. For 77 million accounts, though, you have to consider the possibility that somebody would commission a serious forensic teardown of your system, decapping, microscopes, and the lot.

Expulsion (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35953032)

If only this were enough to ban Sony and their 'products' from N.A....they more than deserve it.

Makes you wonder (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35953052)

I reckon Sony aren't the only ones who are dumb enough to not encrypt user details. I've worked for several companies who don't encrypt their employee data and I could read the lot (not that I cared).

I do wonder though if the hackers were interested in the user details or if they simply wanted to download Mass Effect 2 for nothing...

I feel like this needs to be here (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35953082)

http://anonnews.org/?p=press&a=item&i=848

Leaving PSN Down (4, Interesting)

TheNinjaroach (878876) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953100)

I think the fact Sony has left the PSN in a completely disabled state for the past week could hint at some internal problems with disaster recovery. Their servers have been compromised and can no longer be trusted. In my world, that's a perfect time to re-build your systems from a pristine backup. So why doesn't Sony patch the vulnerability and deploy new servers? Perhaps it's because they don't have any good backups to restore from..

Re:Leaving PSN Down (4, Informative)

Bobfrankly1 (1043848) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953364)

I think the fact Sony has left the PSN in a completely disabled state for the past week could hint at some internal problems with not knowing what the hell they're doing in the first place. Their servers have been compromised and can no longer be trusted. In my world, that's a perfect time to re-build your systems from a pristine backup. So why doesn't Sony patch the vulnerability and deploy new servers? Perhaps it's because they don't have a clue what the vulnerability is...

FTFY.
Sony said it has temporarily shut down the PlayStation Network and Qriocity services and hired an outside security firm “to conduct a full and complete investigation into what happened,” but refused to offer details on the hack. [wired.com]

Re:Leaving PSN Down (1)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953384)

The alternate possibility(no more comforting in terms of competence) is that they have backups; but their system suffers from some comparatively deep-seated or systemic fucked-upitude. If they trusted the client or something equally dumb, all the backups in the world wouldn't save them from having to make some rather time-consuming changes and then test them...

So they took OtherOS out? (0)

slasher234 (2080290) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953112)

And now they are raped right in the ass by big anonymous buba.
Just what they deserve.
First owned private keys, now owned PSN which is I remind you is the sole reason for updating the firmware
which removes the OtherOS option.

Right in the ass, Sony! I really like that
That what you get when you take our OS out!
Huge kudos to hackers that did it (And I hope have strong enough balls not to brag about that)

Re:So they took OtherOS out? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35953428)

This hurts customers as much if not more than Sony. Tell me would you shoot your friends and relatives to get back at the government?

If this job was done by angry-yet-ethical hackers why didn't they just deface the website, instead they stole and are using customer data. No this was not done by the self-righteous people you think did. This was done by greedy individuals solely for monetary gain. They only exploited the recently revealed hole in the playstation as a means to carry it out. These people are not the ones that claim to be bashing Sony and looking out for the consumers. These are the nigerian scammers that send you phishing spam and try to install rogue anti virus malware on your machine.

As much as I dislike Sony these people are worse and do not deserve any praise.

Fallout (5, Insightful)

Canth7 (520476) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953128)

More interesting to me than how the intrusion occurred or how lax Sony's security practices are will be what the public backlash level is like. IT security departments tend to whip up a frenzy with the potential for "end of the company" concerns for data breaches on a regular basis. However, reality is that data loss doesn't always seem to have a particularly negative effect for the company that loses the information. Point in example would be the TJX data loss - http://it.slashdot.org/story/07/03/29/1618239/TJX-Is-Biggest-Data-Breach-Ever [slashdot.org] . Somehow this hardly seems to have put a dent in corporate profits. TJX's stock is up 100% since 2006 when the breach occurred. http://www.google.com/finance?q=tjx [google.com] Point being is, if nothing seriously negative happens to Sony then it's no wonder that firms continue to have poor security practices. After all, why bother spending the effort and money to secure data when there is no return on the investment?

An ill wind blows nobody well (0, Flamebait)

Sheetrock (152993) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953156)

We're at the point where consoles have achieved parity with personal computers in all ways except freedom. Which begs the question, why not go back to personal computers for gaming? It's ironic, but for most games that come out on consoles a keyboard and mouse are the superior input solution, and you can do a lot more with a computer besides.

The whole situation brings to mind a discussion I had about information security the other day at the bakery. Ten years ago, who even thought you could play music on a computer? And now look at things. We need to get to a point where instead of using credit card information for transactions we use tokens instead -- that way, if someone gets into a database, they end up with a whole bunch of tokens instead of credit cards. Good luck using tokens anywhere else, they don't take em. Or maybe we should go back to paper for billing.

Anyway, computers are conclusively better if only for the fact that you can play MP3s while you game. That rules.

Re:An ill wind blows nobody well (1)

dev.null.matt (2020578) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953306)

Ten years ago, who even thought you could play music on a computer?

I was definitely playing mp3s on my computer in 2000. Limewire was very popular then, as was Kazaa (or however it was spelled). Torrenting didn't exist yet, but 2001 is certainly not a time when you couldn't play CD quality music on a computer.

Music on a computer 10 years ago? Errr, yeah. (2)

Viol8 (599362) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953438)

The mp3 has been around since the mid 90s and plenty of other simpler formats were around before that. Macs were doing 8 bit PCM music back in the late 80s and if you want to be pedantic about it synthesized music on a personal computer has been around since the 8 bits days in the early 80s.

undivided attention of Anonymous (4, Insightful)

fhage (596871) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953170)

I wonder if Sony regrets waving the red flag. http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-20050310-17.html [cnet.com] . Anybody heard from geohotz in the last few days?

Assume all accounts are compromised (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35953176)

The most rational thing to do is to assume that all your online accounts are compromised. How many accounts are secretly compromised? How long until your passwords are dumped to some hackers hard drive?

After the LifeHacker attack, I've moved to a very complicated password system. Each online account gets its own password, usually 15 characters long, comprising of a random series of special characters, uppercase, lowercase, and numbers. These passwords are stored in my wallet, and do not exist digitally anywhere except the particular website. The card in my wallet is basically a business card with random characters all over it. I memorize the location of the password, and how long it is, per website. To login, I pull out my card, and read across while typing in the password.

The plan is to replace the card every four years, and changing all my passwords on all the websites.

No duplicate passwords are ever used. The "secret questions" are always answered with random gibberish.

The most annoying thing is websites that restrict the length of your password, or the number of a particular sort of character... it forces me to search through my card to find a series that fits the criteria.

CAPTCHA: intrude, lol

Get a gaming PC (1)

Dan667 (564390) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953182)

sony is never going to do what is in the users interest.

I'm waiting for US Feds to lose 100M+ accounts (1)

peter303 (12292) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953190)

The only reason it probably hasnt happened yet is their system is hacker-resistant being based on COBOL and 9-track tapes. IRS and SS both have legacy systems.

Companies need to stop holding on to CC data (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35953192)

77 million users personal data and potentially credit card data now in the hand of hackers and they wait a week to come clean about it??!!!! There's really no reason Sony should store credit card info anyway. I'll gladly deal with the "minor" inconvenience of having to type it in every time rather than trust some company to take care of my data. Laws should be created that limit the types and personal data a company can store on it's customers to the minimum required for the transaction. And how long they can keep the data they are aloud to store. Otherwise we'll keep seeing these types of breaches over and over.

Are they telling people? (1)

f5hacka (884374) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953208)

Is 77 million all the accounts? If not, are they telling the people specifically if their accounts got hacked?

New ID (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35953216)

There really has to be an overhaul of the whole SSN identification system. Pretty soon everyone will have had their information stolen in one form or another. Just entering your SSN in google up until a couple of years a go I saw hundreds of public records of my information. This is old news and nothing is being done against corporations/institutions like this in return.

Going back to the thread....First Texas and now this? Insane!

Just when I thought they couldn't get worse. (1)

Bytesahoy (1951076) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953220)

I had already planned on not purchasing anything from them again, but I already had a PS3 and I do enjoy playing games online. But now my credit card info is at risk because of their poorly secured network. If I can help it, Sony is never getting another penny from me. Fuck Sony.

Just Plain Text? Don't be ridiculous... (1)

bhunachchicken (834243) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953222)

This is Sony we're talking about - they will of course have installed in a rootkit into the data... ;)

I do not care (1)

equex (747231) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953256)

This is the exact reason I do not use online services that involves real money or that requires real ID (like Facebook). I know I am probably missing out on a lot of games and stuff but I don't care. All I have is an online banking thing for which you need a physical key generator even if you know all the rest of the personal ID. To this day I have never used real information for email signups and other accounts. I keep all my important data stored safely locally (as in NOT a cloud/online storage service) on DVDs and in some cases I burn double backups in case one fails. Hard disks that are thrown away are securely wiped, and then smashed in the ground 2-3 times for good measure. It's nice to know that in case I for some reason I don't have internet, I won't really be affected. All my games and data is present. Even if you steal my wallet or cellphone and find my old disks, you won't get very far !

Battered-wife syndrome (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35953260)

What else explains peoples' insistence on giving money to this company of greedy bozos?

Top eight lies of history:

8) "No, really, just the Sudetenland. C'mon, guys, you won't even miss it." -- Adolf Hitler

7) "Don't worry, honey, I'm on the Pill." -- Your girlfriend

6) "See this bitchin' chemical weapons factory on wheels?" -- Colin Powell

5) "There will be cake after the test." -- GlaDOS

4) "The check's in the mail. Seriously, man, you don't have to do that..." -- You, when the electric company finally sends someone around with a pair of wire cutters

3) "No, seriously, guys, I swear, he was in here. Ask Pete! I saw Nick and Joe bring him in on Friday, and now there's nobody here. It doesn't even smell all that bad. What?" -- St. John

2) "Duke Nukem Forever will ship by Christmas 2002." -- George Broussard

1) "We loooooove our customers. Customers! Customers! Customers! It's all about customer service! We would never do anything to harm our customers' interests, take away their rights, or otherwise throw knives at their backs." -- Sony

False Claims (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35953304)

Where does this story get its data from. 77 Million accounts stolen is ambiguous and downright shoddy journalism. The better headline might be
"77 Million PSN Accounts information has been stolen", but this number is the total amount of registered users and does not reflect the number of affected users, as this information is currently unavailable. Please research before opening your mouth and spilling fear mongering false information.

bad news (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35953318)

Its bad for most gamers.

www.mobilegamesarena.net [mobilegamesarena.net]

Not Trolling.... (1)

Evildonald (983517) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953322)

Seriously, how many times does Sony need to fuck over consumers before they stop buying their products? If you bought a Sony product and they fucked you over, why are you surprised? They do something like this every year!

In all seriousness... (1)

bhunachchicken (834243) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953326)

Whilst I have read a lot of people pointing fingers at Sony and jeering them for this breach, some of the more savvy commentators are now asked how safe ANY online data really is.

Suppose you really did have a situation where the user's personal details and CC data were encrypted. Would you actually just put a press release along the lines of:

"Yeah, we got hacked. The hacker downloaded 77 million account details, all of which was AES secured. Nothing to see here, move along."

Or, would you tell people to delete their CC details and change their password anyway..?

I'm not saying that encryption is pointless, but it feels like the reasonable action would still be to err on the side of caution.

In a situation like this, there's no knowing how far the criminal underworld might be willing to go to attempt to crack the data wide open. Some might already employ massive server farms for this very purpose.

Re:In all seriousness... (2)

Dainsanefh (2009638) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953414)

The thing is, if somebody is borrowing your CC # for a temporary shopping spree, you can always chargeback the transaction with a few single clicks online and you won't have to pay a penny. Not sure what the fuss is all about.

Stolen? (1, Insightful)

blueg3 (192743) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953328)

Was the sensitive information deleted from Sony's system, denying them access to it? If not, how is that stealing? I thought the People of Slashdot were against calling it "stealing" when information is merely duplicated without taking access away from the original holder?

77 million (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35953342)

Cool. I'm sure to be lost in the crowd.

Karma's a bitch. (2)

straponego (521991) | more than 3 years ago | (#35953378)

So what are the ramifications for Sony if they violated PCI standards?
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