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RIM Announces BlackBerry 7 OS

Soulskill posted more than 3 years ago | from the damage-control dept.

Blackberry 129

adeelarshad82 writes "RIM announced two new BlackBerry phones with high-res touchscreens, 1.2GHz processors and a new OS that offers better graphics than BlackBerries had before. The new BlackBerry 7 OS brings the 'liquid graphics' ability and offers '60 frames per second performance with instant UI action/response.' What's unfortunate about the new OS is that rather than being entirely new, BlackBerry 7 is just an upgrade to the existing BlackBerry 6 OS."

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129 comments

Stock shows no change (3, Insightful)

captaindomon (870655) | more than 3 years ago | (#36002788)

Investors obviously aren't impressed. After the huge crash last week in RIMM, with this announcement you would expect some recovery, but there just isn't anything there.

Re:Stock shows no change (1)

tripleevenfall (1990004) | more than 3 years ago | (#36002830)

There isn't anything there alright, it's a polished version of their old OS, which is years behind iOS and Android.

Bottom line is that Blackberry used to have good penetration into the consumer market, and now the only reason they have any revenue at all is the business space.

Re:Stock shows no change (2)

grub (11606) | more than 3 years ago | (#36002864)


it's a polished version of their old OS, which is years behind iOS and Android.

It's easier to polish a turd when it's old and dried up.

Re:Stock shows no change (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36005014)

Easiest when it's become fossilized.

Re:Stock shows no change (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36002932)

Minor devil's advocate here:

RIM has one thing that is top notch -- security. Android still isn't there when it comes to keeping data confidential. There are third party apps which *support* encryption, but only do so if the Exchange server mandates it.

If BlackberryOS can do this, I wish Google can do the same with Android. It would be as simple as having a key which is stored in some NVRAM that isn't part of the filesystem which is XOR-ed with the user's PIN. Then the internal filesystem for the user data is LUKS protected. Too many wrong guesses on the PIN, the key is zapped and recreated and the phone reformats itself. For the SD card, it would be easy to do a system similar to Windows Mobile and sport EncFS, or encrypt the card wholesale with LUKS, with a keyfile that is stored on the device, and can be easily backed up. This way, a device can be remotely erased, but the SD card content can be recovered if need be.

Re:Stock shows no change (1)

pudding7 (584715) | more than 3 years ago | (#36003032)

Unless you're in a country where RIM let's the government read the emails.

Re:Stock shows no change (3, Insightful)

Chris Mattern (191822) | more than 3 years ago | (#36003058)

RIM *is* getting left behind, but let's be honest here. Countries where RIM lets the government read the emails are countries where everybody who provides email lets the government read the emails. RIM got headlines for being the last holdout.

Re:Stock shows no change (3, Insightful)

wiedzmin (1269816) | more than 3 years ago | (#36003304)

Lets be honest here, RIM lets all governments read user emails, it's just that in some countries it gets more publicity than in others. You can't seriously believe that privacy-neutral states like US or UK do not have a backdoor into RIM infrastructure.

Re:Stock shows no change (1)

Ferzerp (83619) | more than 3 years ago | (#36003960)

RIM doesn't have the private keys to decrypt the data you send through their infrastructure. They could provide it encrypted and the encyption could be cracked given a long enough timeline, but the whole point is that it is end to end secure.

This is like saying all your encrypted traffic going over ATT's backbone is arbitrarily viewable. Sure, the raw data could be, but the contents aren't.

This isn't hotmail or google where your data is sitting on their servers. Not sure why you are modded up for an uninformed claim.

Correction (2)

neiras (723124) | more than 3 years ago | (#36004676)

RIM doesn't have the private keys to decrypt the data you send through their infrastructure.

Not always true.

If your handset is using BES (Blackberry Enterprise Server), then RIM can't easily read your email. Each BES installation has its own private keys.

If your handset is using BIS (Blackberry Internet Service), then your mail can be decrypted by the service provider just fine. Most consumer Blackberry plans are BIS.

Access to BIS messaging is what Saudi Arabia et al. were after. I'm guessing they got it.

Re:Correction (1)

kevinmenzel (1403457) | more than 3 years ago | (#36004928)

You CAN set up your own personal BES server if you want / have the aptitude to - there's a free version avaliable though I think you need to run your own exchange server or something so... I mean, I don't think the requirements are free - and it does mean you admining the machine yourself - but there you have it. There is an option, and it's fairly well integrated with the Blackberry platform... although it probably doesn't get you much until you have a lot of content exchange between only your server and your blackberry...

Re:Stock shows no change (2)

mr1911 (1942298) | more than 3 years ago | (#36004412)

You can't seriously believe that privacy-neutral states like US or UK do not have a backdoor into RIM infrastructure.

Yes, I seriously believe that the US government does not have a back door into RIM's infrastructure. They do not need a back door. With a simple "national security" letter, US government agents waltz right through the front door, take what they want, and prevent anyone from saying anything about it.

Reality is so much more boring than a good conspiracy theory.

Re:Stock shows no change (2, Informative)

ArhcAngel (247594) | more than 3 years ago | (#36003312)

If you are on a BES they still can't read your email. They can intercept a copy and try to decrypt it but with today's technology it would take them a few years to do so.

Re:Stock shows no change (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36003476)

If you are on a BES they still can't read your email. They can intercept a copy and try to decrypt it but with today's technology it would take them a few years to do so.

Bets? We'll have that puppy broken open and served hot before first coffee break.

Oh, by the way; nice collection of racy midget porn on your phone. Also, you've had the same password for over four months. It's time to change it.

Not that that would help.

Sincerely,

  The NSA

Re:Stock shows no change (1)

thePowerOfGrayskull (905905) | more than 3 years ago | (#36003466)

That would be every country in all likelihood, after following whatever due process is in place for any given country (or lack thereof). That's the same as any data provider in any country.

What RIM cannot do is provide any government access to secured email that's attached to BES. And that's where governments like India keep repeatedly making threats -- but can't force RIM to do the impossible. (That is: obtain the private keys for each server running BES and use them to somehow provide email details to the government.) And that's a couple steps ahead of the competition.

Re:Stock shows no change (1)

narcc (412956) | more than 3 years ago | (#36005658)

Only BIS users -- RIM can't hand the keys over for BES users because they don't have the keys.

Still, RIM only made the news because foreign governments could ALREADY read everyone else's emails, just not BB users.

HA they got all the bad press because they were TOO secure.

Re:Stock shows no change (1)

exomondo (1725132) | more than 3 years ago | (#36006752)

Unless you're in a country where RIM let's the government read the emails.

But they don't do that at all, don't spread FUD, do some research before you make rubbish posts like that. The emails are encrypted using the company's BES encryption key, which RIM doesn't have, however they can identify the source and destination of emails and this is the information they give to the government who can then subpoena the company for the unencrypted information.

Re:Stock shows no change (1)

stewbacca (1033764) | more than 3 years ago | (#36004196)

Security at the expense of usability is not a feature I want.

Re:Stock shows no change (1)

narcc (412956) | more than 3 years ago | (#36005702)

Security at the expense of usability is not a feature I want.

You're in luck! You can get best-in-class security *and* best-in-class messaging (read: great usability) by switching to BlackBerry.

Palm Deja Vu (1)

Jonathan (5011) | more than 3 years ago | (#36003844)

I know -- it's so frighteningly like Palm -- even down to making a crippled version of whatever was hot at the time (a netbook for Palm; a tablet for RIM) that only work if tied to a phone of theirs.

Re:Stock shows no change (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36003668)

Are there any employment opportunities there?

I'm looking for a RIM job.

Re:Stock shows no change (1)

tlhIngan (30335) | more than 3 years ago | (#36004230)

Investors obviously aren't impressed. After the huge crash last week in RIMM, with this announcement you would expect some recovery, but there just isn't anything there.

The big problem is the PlayBook. First, it doesn't ship with any messaging/calendaring components - if you want those, you need to link it with a BlackBerry.

The second problem is, Blackberry Link only works with OS6 devices. If you're stuck with an OS5/OS4 device with no OS upgrade options (not available/corporate won't do it), a Playbook is nothing more than a web browser that can do Flash, but is otherwise just a toy.

And nevermind if you don't have a Blackberry to begin with - you'd be better served with a Xoom or an iPad if you wanted a tablet.

That's why investors are spooked - the Playbook was hailed as having great hardware inside (1GHz dual core! 1GB RAM!) but then contemporary platforms start coming out with similar specs (Xoom has similar specs, iPad has half the RAM).

I'm sure a number of people have been pressing for OS6 upgrades just so they could make the Playbook useful.

(My dad really wants one so he doesn't have to look at the tiny screen. Alas, his BB only runs OS4.2, and his IT department has informed him new BBs will also run 4.2. He's got a better chance with an iPad and webmail (or ActiveSync) than a Playbook.)

retooling retwolling, near the end of the holycost (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36002802)

overweaponization last terror threat to world (Score:mynutswon, on to babylon)

besides the weather, of course. with all the positively life extending plans to joyfully disarm ourselves & our 'partners' afoot, that takes care of that. see you at the million babys+ play-dates etc...

Why did they buy QNX? (2)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 3 years ago | (#36002814)

They bought a good OS and now they are sticking with the old garbage. Sounds like internal politics is killing RIMs only way forward.

Re:Why did they buy QNX? (0)

Kenja (541830) | more than 3 years ago | (#36002836)

They put QNX on their tablet that no one cares about.

Re:Why did they buy QNX? (2)

Stratoukos (1446161) | more than 3 years ago | (#36003238)

Now you are just being unfair. They are also going to put it on smartphones that no one will care about.

Re:Why did they buy QNX? (2)

ekgringo (693136) | more than 3 years ago | (#36004014)

Our COO (who happens to be Canadian) bought a PlayBook. It's a really nice and solid piece of hardware, but the software on the device has serious issues including a GUI that doesn't recognize touches half the time you try to click a button. The BlackBery Desktop Manager, which is supposed to be used to sync data, doesn't work properly (works fine with the BlackBerry phones). It was quite an effort to get it to see the PlayBook and then it wouldn't allow him to add media once it finally did recognize it. He took it home to try on his home PC, which is a Mac, only to discover that the current Desktop Manager software for Mac doesn't support the PlayBook yet and will not be ready until sometime in the summer. Then there's the BlackBerry App Store, which is full of hundreds of $0.99 unit conversion utilities but almost nothing else. Looks like they released it too early trying to steal some of the iPad 2's thunder.

Re:Why did they buy QNX? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36004444)

Yep, all the good stuff won't be ready until August.

Sort of like how all the stuff on Enterprise B was going to be ready on Tuesday.

Re:Why did they buy QNX? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36002952)

They've said they're going that route. I can imagine the hold-up is just making the switch. It's not like they're going to just stop releasing new products until they finish their development.

I like the look of their new bold. My first-generation bold was by far the best phone I've ever had.

Re:Why did they buy QNX? (3, Informative)

UnknowingFool (672806) | more than 3 years ago | (#36002960)

They used it for Playbook. Considering how incomplete most reviewers regarded the PlayBook, if RIM has plans to replace their smartphone OS with it, it will take a few years.

Re:Why did they buy QNX? (1)

GreyLurk (35139) | more than 3 years ago | (#36003212)

To be fair (ish) QNX on the Playbook isn't really ready for prime time yet. It's better to wait until they've got those bugs ironed out before they risk their phone platform on it.

Now, why QNX on the Playbook is so bad, that's another question altogether. Maybe RIM thinks Apple has a patent on well designed UIs and APIs, and aren't risking a patent battle.

Re:Why did they buy QNX? (1)

tibit (1762298) | more than 3 years ago | (#36003324)

What a waste of QNX :( It is an otherwise very good and lean hard-realtime OS.

Re:Why did they buy QNX? (2)

RDW (41497) | more than 3 years ago | (#36003932)

Older readers may remember the excellent QNX Demo Disk, an OS on a bootable floppy complete with windowing system, file browser, editor, and a proper web browser:

http://toastytech.com/guis/qnxdemo.html [toastytech.com]
http://qnx.projektas.lt/qnxdemo/qnx_demo_disk.htm [projektas.lt]

Who needs live CDs?

Migration takes time (1)

accessbob (962147) | more than 3 years ago | (#36004816)

It takes time to migrate to a new OS - your own development teams need training, your own device drivers need porting, your app developers need new tools and training, your help desk needs training. And you need to support your existing products and versions at the same time. If you think you can simply buy in a new OS and be up and running with it across all your existing embedded products in just 6 months, you're being a little naive. I'm pleased I don't work for you.

Re:Why did they buy QNX? (1)

williamyf (227051) | more than 3 years ago | (#36005836)

Porting all from BlackBerry OS 6/7 to QNX will not happen overnight, so it will take time to go from BBOS 5/6/7 in the phones, and QNX in the playbook to a unified stack in phones and tablets...

Let's just hope that RIM does not go bankrupt before they finish the port.

SOP (4, Insightful)

cpu6502 (1960974) | more than 3 years ago | (#36002820)

>>>BlackBerry 7 is just an upgrade to the existing BlackBerry 6 OS

[Windows] 7 is just an upgrade to the existing [Windows] 6/vista OS
[Mac 10.]7 is just an upgrade to the existing [Mac 10.]6 OS
Reviewers should no longer be shocked. It's standard operating procedure.

Re:SOP (4, Insightful)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 3 years ago | (#36002842)

It is when the company just bought a new OS.

RIM bought QNX, everyone expected them to move their platform to that. BlackBerry OS is terrible, loads all apps at boot, etc.

Re:SOP (1)

thePowerOfGrayskull (905905) | more than 3 years ago | (#36003502)

It is when the company just bought a new OS.

RIM bought QNX, everyone expected them to move their platform to that. BlackBerry OS is terrible, loads all apps at boot, etc.

Actually it verifies the signatures of all apps at boot. The only ones loaded at boot are the ones developed to have boot-time load components...

Having used the PlayBook, I do hope to see that OS on their phones in the very near future though, and will likely be sitting out the OS7 upgrades until that's available.

Re:SOP (-1, Offtopic)

cpu6502 (1960974) | more than 3 years ago | (#36002882)

>>>Slashdot Signature: "Are Linux users lemmings collectively jumping off of the cliff of reliable, well-engineered commercial software?" -- Matt Welsh

What the heck is this?
Lemmings?
Hardly. More like "free" is better than having to pay $200 to get windows. A linux Live CD is also a great way to recover files off the c: drive after windows becomes hosed, and no longer boots (like my current P3 laptop). Some linuxes, like puppy, run in only 0.06 gig of RAM so no need to waste money upgrading perfectly-good hardware.

Re:SOP (0)

Lunix Nutcase (1092239) | more than 3 years ago | (#36002944)

More like "free" is better than having to pay $200 to get windows.

Who actually pays $200 for Windows? Most people get it bundled with an OEM computer where the OEM is probably paying 20-30 bucks because of a volume license.

Some linuxes, like puppy, run in only 0.06 gig of RAM so no need to waste money upgrading perfectly-good hardware.

Sure as long as you have almost no applications installed and are doing next to nothing with your computer. Seriously, you can dumpster-dive core2duo systems with multiple gigs of RAM so trying to dust off some crappy 15 year old computer to run puppy linux on it is a waste of time.

Re:SOP (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36003176)

Who actually pays $200 for Windows? Most people get it bundled with an OEM computer where the OEM is probably paying 20-30 bucks because of a volume license.

Interestingly enough, between paying 20-30 bucks for Windows and paying 200 bucks for Linux, I'd choose Linux. For me, it's a much better value for the money. I don't play games and for professional work, I code Android apps. Just pissing around, Chromium fits the bill nicely. Of course, Windows can do all of that two. It's the niceties in between that do it for me, though. Bash, apt-get, compiz, ssh, etc.

Sure as long as you have almost no applications installed and are doing next to nothing with your computer.

You can do a lot in 60 MB as long as you don't fire up a web browser.

Seriously, you can dumpster-dive core2duo systems with multiple gigs of RAM

Really? Where? Let's go! Oh, you were just talking out of your ass.

Re:SOP (1)

vlm (69642) | more than 3 years ago | (#36003298)

Some linuxes, like puppy, run in only 0.06 gig of RAM so no need to waste money upgrading perfectly-good hardware.

Sure as long as you have almost no applications installed and are doing next to nothing with your computer.

I can install a zillion LXC virtualized containers on my $100 desktop from surpluscomputers. Well, I've never tried more than 10 or so Debian clients so I don't know. If each virtualized linux costs me a couple dozen megs I'm all good. If each virtualized Win7 costs me a gig and $200 then I'm not all good.

Having a dozen or so virtualized hosts in a box is as much fun as a barrel of monkeys.

You put your quagga on each virtual host, link the virtual hosts using weird arrays of virtual bridges, and go BGP insane. Or OSPF insane. Or any ole routing protocol insane. Also a good time can be had with setting up a compute cluster, you get some pretty interesting experience with the software tools.

Re:SOP (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36003302)

Some linuxes, like puppy, run in only 0.06 gig of RAM so no need to waste money upgrading perfectly-good hardware.

Sure as long as you have almost no applications installed and are doing next to nothing with your computer. Seriously, you can dumpster-dive core2duo systems with multiple gigs of RAM so trying to dust off some crappy 15 year old computer to run puppy linux on it is a waste of time.

I thought this is exactly what you freetards do with your free time. Hmm.. Color me stupid.

Re:SOP (1)

roc97007 (608802) | more than 3 years ago | (#36003454)

> Who actually pays $200 for Windows?

Well, anyone who wants to upgrade from Home Starvation edition, or wants to (or is forced to) upgrade to the next major release.

Re:SOP (1)

cpu6502 (1960974) | more than 3 years ago | (#36003966)

>>>>>Some linuxes, like puppy, run in only 0.06 gig of RAM
>>
>>Sure as long as you have almost no applications installed and are doing next to nothing with your computer.

Clearly you've never tried Puppy Linux.
It runs inside RAM (no hard drive thrashing)
and so too do the programs.

Re:SOP (1)

Nerdfest (867930) | more than 3 years ago | (#36003102)

That's been at the bottom of the pages for about a week now. I'm getting a little annoyed by it. Combined with the new format, the excessive Apple articles, and a few other ongoing annoyances, I'm getting close to looking for a new discussion/news site.

Re:SOP (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36003192)

A P3? "Perfectly good?" Not for years, bub. A chisel and stone tablet is fine if you only want to send a message, but most of us want to do a lot more than that.

Re:SOP (1)

MichaelSmith (789609) | more than 3 years ago | (#36006518)

The /. MOTD seems to be stuck at that one.

Re:SOP (3, Interesting)

strick1226 (62434) | more than 3 years ago | (#36003104)

The notable difference here is that, unlike the personal computers running ever-changing versions of OS X and Windows, the BlackBerry hardware platform has changed very little over the years. Thanks to a combination of weak, battery-sipping CPU's and a bloated java-based OS It's long been a clunky, rather unresponsive UI if you pressed the devices to do much of anything beyond the basic calendar and messaging apps.

I'd like to think RIM have a chance now that they're finally making some noteworthy changes to the hardware, but it's also entirely possible they're simply too late to the latest-generation smartphone party. If they managed to switch to the QNX platform on their phone devices I bet the investors would be much happier.

I really wonder, though, if they won't just cease making phones and tablets altogether and roll full Android support into BES for corporate environments. Better do it before Google makes a corporate management platform, though! :)

Re:SOP (1)

Dishevel (1105119) | more than 3 years ago | (#36003522)

I have to say.
I used to have till recently a Blackberry 8330 on the Sprint network.
About 6 month ago I moved to a Sprint Evo phone.
I have 4G at home and at work so it seemed like a good move.
Overall I am happy and love all the geeky shit I can do on my Evo.
I do sometimes still miss the 8330 though.
The charge lasted forever.
I dropped on concrete hard enough that the battery came out at least 50 times.
I dropped on concrete hard enough that the battery and the SD card came out over 10 times.
It always worked. A truly rock solid phone that did the things I needed it to do very well and without fail.

I am not going back. If I had to go back to a Blackberry I would.

Re:SOP (1)

gmhowell (26755) | more than 3 years ago | (#36005450)

I dropped on concrete hard enough that the battery came out at least 50 times.
I dropped on concrete hard enough that the battery and the SD card came out over 10 times.

You're the reason we can't have nice things. Please start taking care of your stuff.

In related news... (5, Funny)

grub (11606) | more than 3 years ago | (#36002838)


In related ancient technology news:

Gak the Caveman has updated his stone axe. The bindings are now made from hemp rather than mammoth tendon.

Grogg from the Urrg tribe has discovered a new method of tanning hides. This will help in those dark, dank caves!

Bleaaaa, leader of the Mmagb community, has found a method of creating fire by rubbing two stick together.

Re:In related news... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36002906)

HUMOR FAIL

Re:In related news... (1)

_0xd0ad (1974778) | more than 3 years ago | (#36003026)

Gak the Caveman has updated his stone axe. The bindings are now made from hemp rather than mammoth tendon.

What a stupid idea - no doubt the tendon would be tougher and wear better. Not to mention the hemp could be put to ... better ... use. I'd ask what they were smoking when they came up with it, but it's pretty obvious what they weren't smoking in any case...

Re:In related news... (1)

_0xd0ad (1974778) | more than 3 years ago | (#36003038)

Probably because the Mmagb community filed a patent on that process of creating fire.

Re:In related news... (1)

Altus (1034) | more than 3 years ago | (#36006736)

Just think of the aftermarket opportunities for replacement bindings!

Re:In related news... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36003286)

You're an idiot.

Re:In related news... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36004064)

Bleaaaa, leader of the Mmagb community, has found a method of creating fire by rubbing two stick together.

Yeah, and it`s just five years away from being a viable replacement to the current technology?

Re:In related news... (1)

southlander (1130379) | more than 3 years ago | (#36004132)

Yeah. After all, RIM's phone's are based on Java, use ARM processors, run apps. Whole world of difference there vs. the other guys. Night and day really.

Why must it be new? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36002840)

Was Linux 2.6 a complete rewrite? It's not like it was originally written for mainframe cell phones and has billions of wasted code paths. Incremental progress is still progress.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice-- (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36002846)

I'm not going to buy another Blackberry.

Ever. I've never hated a cellphone the way I hated my blackberry.

Dear Rimberry: +Interesting (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36002876)

Are you selling personal data to the highest bidder?

Governments want to know.

Yours In Minsk,
K. Trout, C.E.O.

Come on Apple!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36002896)

Just buy RIM already.....
I am running low on RIM/Jobs jokes!

Re:Come on Apple!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36003170)

Interestingly, Apple will probably make enough free cash ($24B) in 2011 to buy RIM ($25B) outright, and not affect their bottom line at all.

Circling the drain (1)

cpuh0g (839926) | more than 3 years ago | (#36002910)

Seriously, when was the last time you talked to anyone who excited to go get a new blackberry? iOS and Android have rendered RIMM products utterly irrelevant. Well, that plus their own inability to adapt to the latest trends and provide a product that is interesting.

Re:Circling the drain (2)

RyuuzakiTetsuya (195424) | more than 3 years ago | (#36002996)

are android and ios Office and Outlook integration implementations tight enough to render BB's edge in those fields irrelevant? I know I can view docx, xlsx, and a few other formats on my iOS devices, but I imagined BB would have some sort of edge there. I also thought that BES would have an edge over vanilla Exchange connections over SSL. Huh.

Re:Circling the drain (1)

MemoryDragon (544441) | more than 3 years ago | (#36003064)

Sheesh when was the last time you did some word editing on a phone... the office integration is moot, good file viewers with some editing capabilities are available for all platforms, as for outlook not even windows phone 7 has outlook integration anymore if you need it there are sync programs for every platform. The only thing where blackberry really still has an edge to some degree is the exchange connectivity and that keeps them afloat businesswise.

Re:Circling the drain (1)

Ephemeriis (315124) | more than 3 years ago | (#36003330)

are android and ios Office and Outlook integration implementations tight enough to render BB's edge in those fields irrelevant?

In my opinion, BB's got no edge in those fields.

BB requires a BES if you want to sync your calendar wirelessly. Yes, BES Express is now free. You still need a box to install it on, and it's still another piece of software to maintain.

Droid will do a wireless calendar sync right out of the box. No extra hardware or software.

I don't have an iOS device, but I'm told that they sync up just as easily as the Droid does.

And as far as Office support goes... It works. I've opened plenty of Office 2007 and 2010 documents on my Droid with no trouble at all.

Re:Circling the drain (1)

s73v3r (963317) | more than 3 years ago | (#36003516)

Do enough people outside of the Enterprise world care?

Re:Circling the drain (1)

Sunshinerat (1114191) | more than 3 years ago | (#36003678)

Casual users do not care about BES servers, Office file viewers, security and remote wipes.
They want Angry Birds.

Re:Circling the drain (1)

lennier (44736) | more than 3 years ago | (#36004630)

Casual users do not care about BES servers, Office file viewers, security and remote wipes.
They want Angry Birds.

Conversely, enterprise users don't care about Angry Birds.

Re:Circling the drain (2)

Shin-LaC (1333529) | more than 3 years ago | (#36005974)

And that's where you're wrong.

Re:Circling the drain (1)

RyuuzakiTetsuya (195424) | more than 3 years ago | (#36006232)

my old job subsidized my private phone with a healthy discount from AT&T as part of our perks.

I got Angry Birds and Enterprise support from Apple. I just wanted to know if RIM's got any legs to stand on anymore.

Re:Circling the drain (1)

Sunshinerat (1114191) | more than 3 years ago | (#36003564)

It is not a new idea, but I think RIM needs to get over the handheld manufacturing business and build a solid mail client app (iOS and Android) for their BES server.
They will make money on the app without any doubt, however, retaining the revenue on BES clients will be priceless.
More and more corporate users are leaving their BlackBerry devices at home because their personal phones are more sexy even though their company pays their BES licences. One day these corporate clients decide the stop paying for BES licenses and go with a simpler mail protocol. This will be the revenue that will never come back to RIM.

take off your android/apple colored glasses (4, Insightful)

1800maxim (702377) | more than 3 years ago | (#36003166)

Plenty of people get excited about BlackBerries, many are in the business world, and many are in the consumer world.

Neither iOS nor Android have rendered RIM product(s) irrelevant, and won't for a while. Stop spreading untruth.

There's one area in which iOS/Android cannot even touch the BlackBerry - security.

Of course, you know all that. And choose to ignore it and spread your FUD.

Re:take off your android/apple colored glasses (0)

cpuh0g (839926) | more than 3 years ago | (#36003442)

I stand by my assertion that RIM is circling the drain and have not had an innovative compelling product line in about 5 years. The Storm was an abortion, and that was their lame attempt at a touch screen to compete with iOS and Android? FAIL. Everything since then is basically a rehash of the same clunky keyboard and joystick interface. Yeah, they have some sort of touch technology, all crammed into a tiny little screen because they have to make room for the physical keyboard at the bottom. Its like a RAZR with a fancier keyboard.

The playbook has been universally panned by everyone who has reviewed it, another epic failure.

Do they have any sort of meaningful developer program to encourage an ecosystem of development for their pathetic app store? No, It's a joke. Nobody develops for RIM first. It's always iOS/Android, and then maybe the rest if they have time. RIM is part of "the rest" and that does not bode well for their future.

You assert that the blackberry is untouchable in security. Please be specific.

Finally, Its not FUD, its an observation and an opinion. I'm not a fanboy of apple or google, but its obvious to anyone paying attention that RIM is an also-ran in the field of mobile phones and consumer electronics in general. The other companies are growing market share, RIM is shrinking. Stick a fork in them now, they are done. They may hang around for a few years with the MS Exchange integration features, but that's not going to save their business, it'll just allow them to tread water or sink a little slower.

Re:take off your android/apple colored glasses (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36003498)

RIM might be rendering RIM products irrelevant.

BBM on iOS and Android soon... makes consumers happy.
iPhone and Android devices on BES soon... makes enterprises happy.

Why buy an BB? What makes it better than any other smart phone? (playing devil's advocate)

I'm a LONG time BB owner, have never owned or considered an iPhone until recently.
I have the 9700 now, and I'm waiting to see what happens with iPhone 5 timing/features and I just may switch.

Re:take off your android/apple colored glasses (1)

s73v3r (963317) | more than 3 years ago | (#36003534)

The only people who get excited about new BBs are those in the enterprise world. That's about it. And that market is quickly shrinking and becoming saturated.

Take another look with your glasses on... (3, Insightful)

Kamiza Ikioi (893310) | more than 3 years ago | (#36003568)

There's one area in which iOS/Android cannot even touch the BlackBerry - security.

You're right. Google nor Apple, to my knowledge, has yet to sell me on "unbreakable" encryption and then turned around and made a deal with a foreign government to provide the tools to break said unbreakable encryption. Yep, my DroidX can't touch that. Well, I can call using RedPhone [whispersys.com] , and completely encrypt my voice calls, use Orbot (Tor) to anonymize and onion route my phone's communications, and I can use any number of private crypto messengers.

Oh wait, did I mention that the folks at Whispersys.com (makers of RedPhone) also make WhisperCore 0.2? From the link: "Device and data security for Android. WhisperCore integrates with the underlying Android OS to protect everything you keep on your phone. This initial beta tech-demo features full disk encryption and basic platform management tools for Nexus S phones. WhisperCore presents a simple and unobstrusive interface to users, while providing powerful security and management APIs for developers."

So... what were you saying about BlackBerry faux-security again?

Re:Take another look with your glasses on... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36004968)

And all of this had been certified to comply with what recognized security standards? None? When it's independantly validated as FIPS 140-2 compliant, we'll have this discussion again. Until then, stop with the FUD, it makes you sound fanboyish...

Re:Take another look with your glasses on... (1)

narcc (412956) | more than 3 years ago | (#36005876)

You're right. Google nor Apple, to my knowledge, has yet to sell me on "unbreakable" encryption and then turned around and made a deal with a foreign government to provide the tools to break said unbreakable encryption.

Wow, what an impressive fail post!

You know that only BIS users were affected by RIM giving in, right? BES users still enjoy unrivaled security, as they have come to expect.

Even funnier -- the only reason RIM was under pressure (and made the news) is that foreign governments could read everyone else's communications -- just not BB users! (As I've already pointed out, they STILL can't touch BES users.)

So... what were you saying about BlackBerry security again?

That's what I thought. Pathetic.

Re:take off your android/apple colored glasses (1)

Sunshinerat (1114191) | more than 3 years ago | (#36003614)

The problem is that the BlackBerry users would love to use Android or iOS devices.
I see plenty of corporate users all over the US switching to iOS/Android phones even though it is not endorsed by IT.
Granted that BlackBerry email is more secure but for how much longer?
RIM needs a solution that can keep them relevant, and it is not a new BlackBerry Bold with shiny new BB OS7, it is an iPhone or a (RIM) Android device with a BES client app.

Re:take off your android/apple colored glasses (1)

jjetson (2041488) | more than 3 years ago | (#36004576)

RIM will not be putting Android on it's devices...Not a chance. Android is way too insecure, and RIMs business is built on exemplary security.

Re:take off your android/apple colored glasses (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36003710)

Question 1: How many Blackberry owners do you see listening to an iPod?
Question 2: How many iPhone owners do you see with a Blackberry?

Re:take off your android/apple colored glasses (1)

mr1911 (1942298) | more than 3 years ago | (#36004462)

Insightful, but not wasting mod points on AC.

Re:Circling the drain (1)

MonsterTrimble (1205334) | more than 3 years ago | (#36004084)

Seriously, when was the last time you talked to anyone who excited to go get a new blackberry?

My wife. She's had it for 3 years next month and it's been very dependable. I would prefer her jump to a 'droid, but all her friends have Blackberries and it's the BBM she loves.

"Just an upgrade" (3, Insightful)

wall0645 (1665631) | more than 3 years ago | (#36002938)

Was there something wrong with BB OS 6 that should necessitate a complete re-write for OS 7? (Serious question, I own a BB but it's still on OS 5.) I am constantly hearing people complaining about how Vista was so different from XP and Office 2007 from 2003, etc., that I figured people liked upgrades rather than completely new things?

Re:"Just an upgrade" (1)

ekgringo (693136) | more than 3 years ago | (#36004296)

Yes. The god-forsaken side-scroll trays that my phone keeps accidentally sliding into when I meant to go to the Mail icon. I never use "Favorites", "Media", "Downloads", "Frequent" trays ever. I was waiting for 6.1 to come out because it was rumored to let you lock onto a chosen tray, but if I have to buy a new phone to get rid of this useless "feature", I think I'll pass on all future BlackBerries. Even when work pays for them, it's not worth the frustration. And do I have to mention how badly the new style keyboards suck? The keyboard used to be their only remaining redeeming feature but no more.

Re:"Just an upgrade" (1)

narcc (412956) | more than 3 years ago | (#36005998)

I never use "Favorites", "Media", "Downloads", "Frequent" trays ever.

I don't use downloads, but I find the other trays very convenient. I agree that it would be nice if you could configure them in the default theme.

That said, if you really hate the trays, just install a theme that doesn't use them. There are plenty to choose from.

Wow (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36003022)

So the biggest thing about BBOS 7 is it can refresh the UI at 60hz?!!? RIM is in trouble.

Unfortunate (?) (4, Insightful)

Wrath0fb0b (302444) | more than 3 years ago | (#36003082)

What's unfortunate about the new OS is that rather than being entirely new, BlackBerry 7 is just an upgrade to the existing BlackBerry 6 OS.

Yeah, I was looking forward to replacing all my apps and app developers must have been really looking forward to supporting two different sets of APIs. Given the hate for "forward" Android fragmentation (i.e. apps that require Android >= X.Y) I can't imagine how much fury would befall RIM if they "backwards" fragmented by making an entirely-new OS.

I'm not saying that total-rewrites are always wrong but they have to be damn well justified (WinMo6.5 comes to mind) because they incur a huge cost on both the rewriters and the entire ecosystem. Those asking for an 'entirely new' OS need to be careful what they wish for.

Re:Unfortunate (?) (1)

iONiUM (530420) | more than 3 years ago | (#36004974)

No offence, but do you even write for mobile devices?

I write code for both Android and BBOS, and I have to say that supporting Android's "fragmentation" included 0 work from me.. I've tested it on about 10 devices (including the Xoom, oddly enough) and it worked correctly in all of them with no changes.

I am also developing an app for BBOS4.6 (yes, an old version, to try and get some good exposure), and it does not work the same AT ALL in 4.7, 5.0 and 6.0. Each version has glitches, even different devices (i.e. 4.7.1 was only on one device) have issues (Torch). Talk about fragmentation, why does nobody mention the fact that BlackBerry is so much worse than Android for fragmentation with THEIR OWN devices? It's really awful.

Re:Unfortunate (?) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36005262)

While I agree with all your points on the android dev, and think it's a bit off (though, in our company we've found difficulties in different android phones/versions/etc, but no worse by far than BB dev)

Didn't you just pretty much validate everything the parent said in his post?

tracking bugs? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36003214)

Let's hope that this new release does not have a tracking 'bug' such as the one found on the iPhone. I'm beginning to agree with RMS' ideas......

give me some attention!! (1)

spazoid12 (525450) | more than 3 years ago | (#36003226)

using that old Pretenders song on the bb pad TV commercial just makes them sound a little bit desperate to me... "Give me some attention... PLEASE... anyone? anyone??? really, I'm special!"

does anybody (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36004030)

care?

Because every Chrome version update was justified? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36004776)

It might be a bit weak but it is what it is.

I don't like 6 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36006052)

I switched my tour to 6. I hate it. It was fine up until then. I was used to looking up something on Google with it and having people lose interest before I got a response on my phone - the 3G part.
Mine is a couple months old.
Why I hate it:
- Hate the trackpad compared to the ball.
- Hate the trays.
- hate how just now I had it on speakerphone while on hold and each time I highlighted the mute button, and pushed it, the display kept switching to "adding a new contact". 3x while listening to the person say hello hello until they hung up on me. First time I've had it do that but it's always coming up with funny inventive little jerk-me-arounds.
- hate the trays. When I use it, I feel like they wanted it to look in some way like apple or whatever and now, instead of scrolling sideways and moving to the next line down, I keep scrolling between screens trying to hit the Icon I need to open.
  I've tried to make them as close to each other as possible, but it still pisses me off when all I want to do is go over one icon and the screen switches over from favorites to frequent to media to downloads to all and then over again.
The main thing is, I feel like there was attempt with 6 to make it LOOK more like apple. Not act like apple, not work better, not add functionality, just LOOK like apple to a first time user or something.
Our office keeps trying different android phones and iphones trying to find something else so we can all get rid of them. We have some specialized software that we use with the blackberry's that's not there yet with anything else but I can barely wait. I feel like all day long it does something to piss me off. I hit the pad constantly while trying to write emails etc. and then have to close whatever menu option opens.
I whine.
- I hate the way some of the menu items are the same but not always in the same order.
I'm unreasoned and not the most tech savvy but I would get anything else if work did not require us to have these...for now.
My personal experience which was fine until 6 makes me think that they are in decline.

Re:I don't like 6 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36006568)

Wait I also forgot that my bluetooth speaker I have for this has much lower volume. I can pair it with other phones and its loud. It was loud on my old blackberry, I loaded my backup onto this, loaded 6 on it and hey would you listen to that, oh wait I can't hear it.

Too fast (1)

bmservice (2102022) | more than 3 years ago | (#36006536)

I don't think their OS6.0 have even populatd yet, then they come out with another high version OS.
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