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id Software's RAGE To Ship With Mod Tools

Soulskill posted more than 3 years ago | from the roll-your-own dept.

First Person Shooters (Games) 94

id Software's creative director, Tim Willits, revealed to PCGamer that upcoming shooter RAGE will launch with support for modding and level editing. "As for what you’ll be creating, that’s a little trickier; id's technology has moved on since you could fit hundreds of Doom levels on a CD. 'Building levels from scratch is more difficult,' says Tim, 'because we have a layer system in some of the levels. I can foresee somebody modding up Wellspring (a town in-game) and adding different characters, giving them different voice-over.' But if you've got the development skills to use it, the level editor will be there. 'It's built into the engine,' says Tim." A new trailer has been released for the game as well. A recent interview with producer Jason Kim explained why they decided not to have a traditional FPS deathmatch mode and how id Tech 5 affected level design.

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first! (1)

tortovroddle (1969948) | more than 3 years ago | (#36045082)

I don't want to mod it, I want to play!

Re:first! (1)

Steauengeglase (512315) | more than 3 years ago | (#36045110)

Then you had better be prepared for Todd Hollenshead to show up at your house with a gun and demand that you drop down the console and type 'id studio'. Expect it.

Re:first! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36045250)

the cvar is one word "idstudio" :)

idstudiokfa (1)

ShakaUVM (157947) | more than 3 years ago | (#36045298)



To each their own (2)

Moraelin (679338) | more than 3 years ago | (#36045980)

To each their own. Me, I think I spent more time making various swords, axes, maces and fine business suits for Fallout New Vegas than actually playing the damned thing. And actually did some hex hacking back in ye olde Fallout 3 days, before there was an official modding kit. I wish more games shipped with a modding kit built in, personally.

Re:To each their own (4, Insightful)

Gaian-Orlanthii (1032980) | more than 3 years ago | (#36048216)

You haven't been around before the days of 'Unreal' and 'Quake' have you? Map editors and modelling tools were common back then.

Re:To each their own (1)

Moraelin (679338) | more than 3 years ago | (#36052864)

Well, I couldn't even model a cube in ye olde Unreal and Quake days, so it made little difference :p

Re:To each their own (1)

Xest (935314) | more than 3 years ago | (#36070146)

I agree, many games always have and still do have mod tools built into them.

The problem is the learning curve has drastically steepened, back then anyone could pick up the tools with a little bit of effort, now it takes a much bigger investment in time to learn and be able to produce something, and just as AAA development costs have increased the burden on modders has increased- you now need bigger mod teams than ever before and historically it was often difficult enough to find even 5 trustworthy people for a TC, let alone 50.

Re:To each their own (1)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 3 years ago | (#36053310)

I had a ton of fun in highschool making new levels for Descent. I don't think the editor (Devil) shipped with it, or was even endorsed by the creators of the game, but I sure had a lot of fun with that. Descent3 shipped with an editor out of the box, although I never did as much editing on that as it was way more complex the the one for the original Descent. Descent was fun in that it didn't follow a true 3D model, so you could do things like have a door in the middle of a room, that led to a bigger room.

Re:first! (2)

VortexCortex (1117377) | more than 3 years ago | (#36046898)

I don't want to mod it, I want to play!

That's too bad, because ID really just wants you to mod it, and sell your mod as the next CoD... Kind of like the current generations of CoD, and many games (including BRINK) already do.

So this "game" is really more of a tech demo + limited GDK (game dev kit) to get people interested in licensing the engine for their own, much more innovative & fun games? Face it, ID's new bread & butter isn't making games, it's licensing the engine -- Hence all the "MegaTexture" and other such technical hype -- It's a flipping abstraction layer for texture coordinates & attributes -- Hell, even my Tetris clone has one of those, and is more extensible (bump-maps, electro-magnetic maps, particle emitting maps, temperature maps, combustibility maps, various sound maps (crush, overheat, chill, collide), etc) The number of METAtextures properties are not written in stone (like IDs are), their complexity is limited only by the speed of the CPU / GPU & amount of available memory / storage -- in fact, I call them Extensible-MetaTextures, and they can be described in XML...heh) -- However, only ID has the "MegaTexture" trade mark...

To me, RAGE is targeted at studios, not players.

Since Romero left, ID has just been pumping out engines to license with less and less content each iteration, but at least some decent competitive multi-player support -- now RAGE doesn't even have that... (Ergo, You can license ID Tech 5, and you won't be faced with users comparing the new features of your multi-player online franchise (CoD) as rehashes of RAGE. (Unlike how Heretic was a fun rehash of Doom, CoD6 won't be perceived as a re-hash of RAGE.)

P.S. I call them ID not "id" because that's how they introduced themselves to me in Commander Keen (Apogee scrolls up screen, then an uppercase "ID software" attribution appears)... First impressions stick even when they're no-longer relevant -- Sort of similar to how ID is still considered to be innovative because they have been very much so in the past... Even if they built a platformer again I wouldn't be interested, the guys that made Keen fun have long since left the building.

Re:first! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36047548)

The problem with Romero is all of his designs feel samey. A bunch of browns and greys in a gothic type environment.

Re:first! (2)

Lunix Nutcase (1092239) | more than 3 years ago | (#36048088)

Face it, ID's new bread & butter isn't making games, it's licensing the engine

I hate to break it to you but iD's bread & butter has ALWAYS been to get people to license their engine. While many of the games they've made to show off the engine have been great fun it doesn't change this fact.

Re:first! (1)

Thing 1 (178996) | more than 3 years ago | (#36054466)

So it's still British Petroleum to you, too?

Well... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36045104)

This certainly beats day 1 DLC!

Sauerbraten/Cube 2 had something like this (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36045106)

...last time I looked. It was very much like playing minecraft.

Finally.. (3, Funny)

upto0013 (1144677) | more than 3 years ago | (#36045180)

Finally, I can quickly change all voice over dialogue to my bad Sean Connery impression.

Re:Finally.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36045510)

"Find the red key for the red door, Miss Moneypenny"

Re:Finally.. (3, Funny)

ciderbrew (1860166) | more than 3 years ago | (#36045816)

"shFind'sh shthe'sh shred'sh shkey'sh shfor'sh shthe'sh shred'sh shdoor'sh, shMiss'sh shMoney'sh'sh'penny'sh"

broke that for you.

Re:Finally.. (1)

antdude (79039) | more than 3 years ago | (#36048636)

Nah. Barney the Dinosaur, ALIENS (OK, no Fox will axe that project), etc. ;)

Things are looking good for the PC (4, Interesting)

elh_inny (557966) | more than 3 years ago | (#36045188)

Given the recent fiasco of Sony, lack of hardware updates for PS3 / X360 in the near future, the fact that you can get better hardware for similar prices (and play with more eye candy on the PC), you have the choice of the controller, or the kb+mouse, with Steam and it's low, low prices, the fact that you can do other things on your PC as well, possibly at the same time, there's no reason why the PC should not be on the rise now and console market share declining...
The only problem is the huge diversity and lack of big players marketing PC as the ultimate gaming accessory, If HP/Dell got their heads around, they have enough selling power to market the idea, and maybe even promote some baseline performance standards (like high performance, medium, low/mobile) as opposed to 20+ SKU that each generation of GPUs have...

Re:Things are looking good for the PC (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36045310)

People PREFER controllers.
Most people find keyboards obtuse as it is, but to play a game on it? "eww, that sounds uncomfortable."

This isn't an uncited fact, it is common sense, people suck on keyboards as it is. >90% of the people I know, even some of the PC gamers (who suck, admittedly, and rage equally hard and accuse others of cheating), STILL LOOK AT THE KEYBOARD WHEN TYPING.
Controllers (usually) fit the hand of the players pretty well, it feels natural. Keyboards are still being manufactured in the most unnatural poses ever because it is cheaper.
Given that they are going to be destroyed in pretty much any competitive game, the most popular game types of PC gaming just now, they will be pushed further away because of this.
And as more of them get in to gaming, there will be times when there are less regular PC gamers and all the newer gamers will be claiming that the experienced ones are cheating. (I'm not even joking with that last part)

I hope console gamers stay on console, the PC industry is fine, let the intelligent ones find it on their own, I don't want to be hearing 11 year olds screaming "CHEATER" down the mic on game X and Y. (yes, mute exists in most, I KNOW, but that ain't the point here)

Re:Things are looking good for the PC (4, Insightful)

Winckle (870180) | more than 3 years ago | (#36045404)

Plug a controller into your PC then.

Re:Things are looking good for the PC (1)

RsG (809189) | more than 3 years ago | (#36045688)

Plug a controller into your PC then.

^What he said.^

If console gamers wanted to play a PC title using a controller of their choice, there are plenty of USB controllers on the market. Haven't seen motion controllers (yet) but I'm not convinced they have much merit over your basic gamepad, as far as non-gimmicky gameplay mechanics go.

The reverse is less true; consoles don't offer much for a PC gamer. I don't feel particularly attached to a keyboard as a gaming accessory; I could do without it. The same can not be said of a mouse. Controlling a FPS, without autoaim or any other assistance, using a gamepad or motion sensor is a pain in the ass.

Re:Things are looking good for the PC (1)

Gadget_Guy (627405) | more than 3 years ago | (#36046406)

Haven't seen motion controllers (yet)...

I think that you will find that this would be called a mouse!

But seriously, I had an old Microsoft gamepad with sensors to detect movement. It wasn't terribly good for most games, although it was fun for Descent and excellent for motorbike games. This goes back quite a number of years, so it was nowhere near as sophisticated as the modern controllers.

Re:Things are looking good for the PC (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 3 years ago | (#36046754)

This goes back quite a number of years, so it was nowhere near as sophisticated as the modern controllers.

And yet it gave the same user experience, one of annoyance. My body is not designed to return to the dead zone periodically unless you believe in reincarnation.

Re:Things are looking good for the PC (1)

fotbr (855184) | more than 3 years ago | (#36047714)

My body is not designed to return to the dead zone periodically unless you believe in reincarnation.

You sleep, don't you? That's sort of the same thing.

Re:Things are looking good for the PC (1)

Luckyo (1726890) | more than 3 years ago | (#36045908)

Worth noting that xbox controller functions perfectly when plugged into a windows pc. Microsoft provides drivers and support.

Re:Things are looking good for the PC (1)

kalirion (728907) | more than 3 years ago | (#36051038)

At least the wired version does. Whenever I see a post about gamers complaining that their Xbox 360 controller is not working for some game, 90% of the time it's the wireless version.

The other 10% of the time they're trying to play a PS2 / PS1 / Xbox 1 port.

Re:Things are looking good for the PC (1)

Luckyo (1726890) | more than 3 years ago | (#36051454)

Wireless needs a separate receiver.

Re:Things are looking good for the PC (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36045314)

Too much greed and lack of complete control by any one of the possible partners would prevent a more cohesive and focused PC gaming ecosystem from developing. Otherwise, what you're suggesting is more than reasonable and logical. I would love for it to happen.

Re:Things are looking good for the PC (1)

epyT-R (613989) | more than 3 years ago | (#36045340)

actually it's the lack of controls that allows innovation to happen in the first place. I'm glad there's no single vendor. this worked fine up until the point where the big players decided to drive players to consoles where they can play with false scarcity a bit more.

Re:Things are looking good for the PC (1)

N1AK (864906) | more than 3 years ago | (#36045332)

If you 'already' own an Xbox/PS3 then you can't buy a PC for the same price. If your console breaks, you've still got the games library so are likely to stick with it. You quote lack of hardware updates as a flaw, which is odd given that most people who buy consoles find the idea that they don't have to consider hardware upgrades a massive bonus.

Consoles are doing well because people can buy it, stick it under the TV and 'know' it will run anything branded for that console without any worries about performance. A large portion of the market is massively put off by the idea of having to consider the 'specs' of their games device when buying a game. I've been a PC gamer for years, but I still buy titles for consoles more often than not because I have no inclination to even look up what GFX card I last installed and how that will handle a new game. Nor do I intend to move my desktop into the lounge to use the TV, or buy a new living room friendly rig, or buy a monitor that will provide an equivalent image quality.

Re:Things are looking good for the PC (3)

Gadget_Guy (627405) | more than 3 years ago | (#36046322)

If you 'already' own an Xbox/PS3 then you can't buy a PC for the same price.

If you can read this sentence, then you probably own a PC already too.

I use a PC for gaming rather than a console for exactly that reason - I already needed to own one. I have an old, very cheap Dual Core system with a Radeon 5750 which I got to be cheap and quiet (and not heat my whole house up like my last PC). Even with such a low spec system I don't have any worries playing games because I use a low resolution monitor (1680x1050) and just use the mainstream default game settings. Games happily work fine on it and look about the same as a current gen console. If I play a game that is a few years old, I know I can turn up the graphic settings to max and get much improved picture quality.

This is particularly useful when revisiting old titles. If you do that on a console (assuming that your next console can actually play your old games) you will get exactly the same quality as you saw when you first played. When I upgrade my computer, all my old games get upgraded too.

Finally, I like PC gaming for the same reason that you prefer console gaming. It doesn't connect my TV. That means I can play my games without interrupting anyone else in the house from watching TV or a DVD.

Re:Things are looking good for the PC (1)

filthpickle (1199927) | more than 3 years ago | (#36046622)

One thing you are missing is how consoles have really, really, really, lowered the bar on what a gaming PC needs to be. Anything that came out in the last 2-3 years with any middling to decent video card will run anything. You can build an AMD rig with an upper level video card for $600 or so that would play anything on high/max settings.

Ofc, the sitting in front of the TV factor is're right about that.

Re:Things are looking good for the PC (1)

Gaian-Orlanthii (1032980) | more than 3 years ago | (#36048670)

It's a poor argument to make if you're implying that people just want a box that works the magic stuff, as an example of tech success.
Anyone who bought Ultima Underworld or Ultima VII back in the early 1990s got specific instructions on dealing with memory allocation issues and boot-sequence protocols in the in-game manual. Along with game instructions and a fairly detailed world history.
That's an education, my friend.
These days, manuals (pamphlets!) spend more text reinforcing your legal obligations pertaining to epilepsy, obesity and the concerns of religious puritans than they do on the fucking controls!
Consoles haven't dumbed down gaming (buy an old Megadrive for proof) - console MAKERS have dumbed down gaming!

I'd like to add: Come On Down Sony! - content with spending millions of their shareholders' profits on persecuting emulator engineers than on.... preserving the media those shareholders' dividends depend on.

Re:Things are looking good for the PC (1)

westlake (615356) | more than 3 years ago | (#36045648)

there's no reason why the PC should not be on the rise now and console market share declining...

You buy the Kinect comtroller as much as to watch your kids at play as to play yourself.

Console gaming is family room gaming. No matter how good the online component, it will always be secondary in this market.

Re:Things are looking good for the PC (1)

splict (1024037) | more than 3 years ago | (#36046450)

I think Valve could do very well by marketing a Steam "console." Combine a small PC, slick case, good GPU, simple UI, and run Windows games. Give the PC world a single standard spec to target (people who want to could still buy better or cheaper computers). All purchases go through Steam.

Re:Things are looking good for the PC (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36046574)

...and call it Phantom.

Profit! (well, maybe not...)

Re:Things are looking good for the PC (1)

aztracker1 (702135) | more than 3 years ago | (#36047928)

Interesting... but hitting a $300 price point would be hard... even if they raised that bar to $400, the license for Windows would still be hard to push into a level of hardware on such a box... a dual-core Cortex A8 combined with nvidia graphics might be compelling at that price range ($300)... but would still take some efforts to support... though Valve is in a better position than a lot of companies, especially if they eliminated any upfront fees for developers.

Re:Things are looking good for the PC (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36047624)

In my opinion you know why console gaming won out? Casual gamers, or more to the point the hardcore nontechie gamer. When you buy a console game, you don't have to worry about the specs on your pc, you just open the case pop it in to the xbox and it just works. In PC gaming, you're looking at always needing to have higher end video cards that in some cases cost as much as an xbox. Causal gamers, and nontechies are not going to deal with that. Hell, I went out and got a copy of COD for my pc, and all it did was complain my video card didnt support some feature it needed. So really, it's no wonder the plug and play consoles won out.

Linux? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36045236)

Yes, yes.. Does it run on Debian?

Re:Linux? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36045300)

It probably does, why else would it be posted on Slashdot?

Re:Linux? (1)

Stormwatch (703920) | more than 3 years ago | (#36045324)

Linux? They haven't even confirmed the Mac version!

Re:Linux? (1)

Narishma (822073) | more than 3 years ago | (#36045704)

Huh? The game was first revealed at a Macworld expo, so the Mac version was the first one confirmed.

Re:Linux? (1)

Stormwatch (703920) | more than 3 years ago | (#36046484)

I know that, and that's what makes it real weird. The official site does not mention a Mac version.

as brown as Quake 1 (1)

Endymion (12816) | more than 3 years ago | (#36045278)

It seems that we've come full-circle back to "brown".

I thought we had left that with Q1. D3 may have been way too dark, but at least they used some bright colors now and then. I blame the recent Fallout games. I love them, but they seem to have kicked us into a heavy steampunk-rust-brown fad.

Actually, the game looks pretty decent; it's just that an all-brown color scheme gets boring after a while.

Re:as brown as Quake 1 (1)

ShakaUVM (157947) | more than 3 years ago | (#36045326)

>>I blame the recent Fallout games. I love them, but they seem to have kicked us into a heavy steampunk-rust-brown fad.

Fallout 3 was very dry, brown and unappealing. Fallout New Vegas at least had a little bit of color and water in New Vegas itself, and mixed it up with the Biology Vault, and some snowy areas.

Re:as brown as Quake 1 (1)

MrHanky (141717) | more than 3 years ago | (#36045602)

You thought there was more water in the Mojave desert than in the Potomac river?

Re:as brown as Quake 1 (1)

ShakaUVM (157947) | more than 3 years ago | (#36046012)

The Potomac was pretty brown in Fallout 3. You wouldn't want to swim in it.

Re:as brown as Quake 1 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36046864)

The Potomac River is pretty brown in real life... You wouldn't want to swim in it.

Re:as brown as Quake 1 (1)

MrHanky (141717) | more than 3 years ago | (#36048468)

In the game, it's more of a greyish-green.

Re:as brown as Quake 1 (1)

RsG (809189) | more than 3 years ago | (#36045330)

I don't think we ever left "brown" as the FPS colour of choice.

Or, more generally, brown/grey/muzzle-flash, alongside the occasional light tan crate. This seems to be the entirety of most AAA developer FPS colour-schemes, with the odd exception (and even those are just slightly more varied ).

Go look at the myriad of modern warfare style games, or absolutely any game where "space marine" is a rough description of the protagonist. You get the occasional exceptions, but by and large the environments will be either dirty, decayed or rusted, and the main source of bright primary colours will be fire, blood and the occasional "warning: shoot this and it explodes" barrel/crate/gas-tank/whatever.

Re:as brown as Quake 1 (0)

godefroi (52421) | more than 3 years ago | (#36047732)

Have you ever noticed that while ID may be extremely adept at producing game engine technology, they're colossally bad a producing games? Not a single one of their games has been enjoyable, since, oh, ever.

Re:as brown as Quake 1 (1)

godefroi (52421) | more than 3 years ago | (#36071590)

Oh, sorry, mods, is ID off-limits?

Re:as brown as Quake 1 (1)

GameboyRMH (1153867) | more than 3 years ago | (#36074050)

The Halo series has a space marine (no quotes needed) protagonist and had plenty of bright colors. Dead Space wasn't that dull either. You might consider Crysis to be a "space marine" game or a "modern warfare" type game and that was loaded with bright colors.

Re:as brown as Quake 1 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36046624)

Yeah, but Quake 1 was only two shades of brown: dark brown and greenish brown. With the new id Tech 5 engine, Rage will have a whole range of browns, from an almost black brown to a green-shit brown to a yellowish brown. I'm hoping to see some more exotic browns, such as blue brown.

Re:as brown as Quake 1 (3, Informative)

hibiki_r (649814) | more than 3 years ago | (#36050454)

Q1 wasn't that brown. There were levels that were very blue, and others that were quite green. It's only the first episode that was absolutely brown, which had a lot to do with reusing textures for an episode to be distributed for free, back in a time where modems were the norm, rather than the exception.

Then we saw Unreal, which was anything but brown.

The muddle of browns everywhere started a little bit later.

Can they explain why... (2)

MBraynard (653724) | more than 3 years ago | (#36045282)

the trailer makes it look like a 10 year old game?

Re:Can they explain why... (1)

rhyder128k (1051042) | more than 3 years ago | (#36045334)

So, I'm not the only one. It looks poor, visually. The levels look like a step backwards too. Somehow they've managed to take a game with some limited outdoor stuff and yet turned it into a corridor shooter.

The deployable turret stuff and remote control vehicle looks good and will probably be taken up as a standard FPS game mechanic.

We'll have to see how much vehicle driving there is and how closely it's integrated into the main gameplay. Beyond that, it looks like id is going to do what it always does: release a slightly improved DooM/Quake. At least the other releases contained exciting new rendering tech that other dev teams could steal/licence. This looks like STALKER On Rails to me.

Re:Can they explain why... (2)

RagingMaxx (793220) | more than 3 years ago | (#36045384)

Which 10 year old game would that be?

While the facial animations and motion capture may not but up to LA Noire standards, they are certainly more detailed and natural than most 3D games on the market at the moment. Especially with regards to the ragdoll and impact animations when enemies are getting taken down. In any case, character animation has never been one of id's strong points.

I think what you may be missing is the extraordinary amount of detail in the outdoor environments. The unique shapes and textures of the hoodoos (rock pillars) for example, are absolutely stunning compared to any other 3D game out right now. This is not a space station, where every bulkhead looks exactly the same.

Making any kind of large, organic environment is incredibly hard and time consuming in a 3D game. You will see repeated textures and prefabs (3D shapes) everywhere you look. id Tech 5 has gone a long way towards addressing the unique texturing problem without making the game a 30GB download, and they have seemingly put a lot more effort into allowing organic level design in this project than any of their previous forays.

In terms of graphics, this is a bit of a renaissance period for 3D games, with id Tech 5 being one of the real show-stoppers. Add the human animation of LA Noire, and the brilliant dynamic lighting of the updated Unreal 3 engine (google for "Samaratin Demo"), and we are actually seeing some real improvements to the technology being used in 3D engines. That's of course not even mentioning Brink, the new Crytek engine, and a host of smaller companies who are doing great things with AI and physics.

No mention here of Valve, because their obvious strength is amazing gameplay, and their engine hasn't seen much love in the past 3 years while they've been kicking ass with TF2 and Portal. <3 u Valve.

Re:Can they explain why... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36045494)

The game will take up about 3 DVDs of space, which nears 30 GB. Unfortunately this is our only limitation with id Tech 5 megatextures. If we could get a way with 100GB of texture data, we would do that and it would not impact performance of the game at all, but unfortunately the market is not ready for that (mostly due to 360 not supporting blu-ray).

Re:Can they explain why... (1)

carnivore302 (708545) | more than 3 years ago | (#36045632)

john is that you?

Re:Can they explain why... (1)

minasoko (710100) | more than 3 years ago | (#36046080)

PC gamer here, I'm ready for it, as is my modest-spec PC.

100GB of storage has an equivalent cost of, what, 5 dollars/pounds/euros?
Please stop shafting the customers that have been your bread and butter for over a decade.

Re:Can they explain why... (1)

filthpickle (1199927) | more than 3 years ago | (#36046670)

yet another instance of consoles making PC games suck. Fortunately, portal 2 didn't....because I would have taken a hostage.

Re:Can they explain why... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36048064)

Why is that consoles are making PC games suck and not id/Bethesda for not offering a 100GB version for PC? Just because the 360 doesn't have Blu-ray doesn't meant that you can't offer that texture pack to those who can use it. There's no law that says (other than lazy economics) that all versions must be the same. A lot of PC games have higher textures and added features. This is the same argument people use when menus look like they were designed for consoles. "Yet again consoles ruin the PC experience." No, the developer did that. If they thought that menu sucked on PC they should have fixed it, unless you think MS forces people to simply port instead of developers just being lazy/cost effective. If you want a version made for PC then you need to demand it. By being apathetic and accepting that whatever limitations the 360 has is what limits the PC version that's what we'll continue to get. The line that "the 360 can't do it therefore the PC can't have it" is rubbish.

Basically, it's not the limitation of the console that's ruining the experience it's the developer. id's excuse of, well the 360 can't do it so we can't offer it is horseshit. I'm not using a fucking 360 so don't tell me my machine can't use it and don't tell me you won't even offer it to me because someone else somewhere can't use it. I don't care.

Re:Can they explain why... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36047720)

Which 10 year old game would that be?

While the detail in the graphics and animation are really good, the outdoor scenes are all simply driving through a narrow canyon...a technique that screams "graphics techniques of the 90's are back". Yes, it may be a the most incredibly detailed canyon I've ever seen, but it feels very lame. And in all of the Rage sneak peaks that have been released over the last few years, that's all you EVER see of the outside is driving in a narrow canyon.

Then you get inside, and it's box filled corridor, box filled corridor, box filled room, box filled corridor, box filled room, box filled corridor. Yeah, they may be the most incredibly detailed boxes ever, but enough of the damn boxes already.

In order to make a step forward in graphics, they took a huge step back in level style and design. For those who like car analogies, it's like solving or dependence on foreign oil by hitching our cars up to horses.

Re:Can they explain why... (1)

mustPushCart (1871520) | more than 3 years ago | (#36045400)

Because although id makes great graphics they do not have things like visual design and the 'soft skills' that make great video games (think portal 2's voice acting and animation). So they always score in the technical department. Unfortunately the whole graphics curve is leveling off now as we reach photorealistic games and graphics no longer impress anyone. Also from what I am reading RAGE uses OpenGL? Whops there goes the whole hardware tessellation from directX 11. So really this game will bring nothing to the table unless the gameplay is superb or the engine itself is easy to use (for making other games, not just modding).

Personally the trailer was disappointing.

Re:Can they explain why... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36045628)

OpenGL has hardware tesselation too dummy

Re:Can they explain why... (1)

Narishma (822073) | more than 3 years ago | (#36045728)

Hardware tessellation isn't limited to Direct 3D. Whatever you can do in Direct 3D you can also do in OpenGL.
That said, the game isn't using it because it's targeting console-level hardware.

Re:Can they explain why... (1)

Coren22 (1625475) | more than 3 years ago | (#36048632)

What bothered me most about the video was that it is an advertisement for a video game, but proceeding the advertising video, there is a freaking advertisement for the Marines...WTF, I want to see one advertisement, but have to sit through another one to watch it?

OMG the game looks shit. (1)

Kuruk (631552) | more than 3 years ago | (#36045480)

Come on.

Oblivion was good. But we are older now.

The car in the video was on dirt and preformed like it was on flat tarmac. Im sure the kids will love it. John your peers will think you better stick to modular rockets. At least armadillos have armour.

Re:OMG the game looks shit. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36046076)

Looked good to this 55 yo. Maybe I am a kid at heart!

Anyone else kinda bored... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36045512)

of waiting for this game to come out!? I was excited about the outdoor texturing a few years ago but has that falling by the wayside now?

Is it just me, or... (2)

fudgefactor7 (581449) | more than 3 years ago | (#36046060)

...does this game just look like practically every other game out there? I'm not enthusiastic about it. The physics of the car just looked wrong to me. I don't know, maybe that was still some early stuff, but for me to want this they'll have to do more. Lots more. And it's still a damn FPS. Enough already! The market is flooded with them, and none of them are any better than Doom 3 was. Ugh. Someone, please develop a new gaming paradigm so we can lose the FPS once and for all.

Re:Is it just me, or... (1)

moogaloonie (955355) | more than 3 years ago | (#36051230)

It wasn't exactly the physics I noticed, but the abrupt handling. I really expected a higher level of realism, not just to the graphics but to the vehicles. The truck stopped, started, and reversed much quicker than a driver would maneuver an actual vehicle. And that high 3rd person camera might be best for playing, but I'd rather it had been mounted lower as if on the vehicle, or were less precise as if being filmed from the air. Old game conventions stand out more as realism increases.

Was excited.. Not anymore.. (2, Interesting)

rotide (1015173) | more than 3 years ago | (#36046106)

This game is dead on arrival to me. I was looking forward to a new "Quake" (read: multiplayer awesomeness) and it seems like they are giving us a single player only (for all intents and purposes) game instead.

Now, single player games are fine. I really like Mario, Zelda, a lot of the games on XBLA (Castle Crashers, Limbo, etc, etc) and I could name a ton more games that are fun single player/co-op experiences. That being said, id isn't a company I expect great single player games from. I expect great multiplayer games from them! Games with lasting power.

Sure, playing a great single player game could take 12 hours to complete, and another 10 to replay if it's that good, but multiplayer games can make me want to play for _years_. Quake 1/2/3, I don't want to know how many hours I put into those with friends on a LAN. When RAGE was announced, I was excited for new IP from id! What new things are they going to think up for multiplayer to push themselves ahead of all the rest in the competitive scene? It seems, so far, there are no dedicated servers! no deathmatch! and NO CTF!!! That's grea..... wait, what? The only multiplayer they are going to have is vehicle combat and co-op? Who is creating this game again?

No Dedicated Servers: []
Co-Op/Vehicles with NO DM/CTF: []

Ok, so, it's pretty much a single player game only. I'll save my $60 thank you. I was sincerely looking forward to another AAA awesome multiplayer title. I guess if you want to play a multiplayer shooter, go grab CoD#12 or whatever they are up to now.. shudder.. id software is apparently removing themselves from the running. Movie style, linear games, seem to be the RAGE.. I think I'll get off my own lawn now..

Re:Was excited.. Not anymore.. (1)

pinkushun (1467193) | more than 3 years ago | (#36046330)

Nothing wrong with single player games, IMHO. Aside, Quake ended with Q2.

Re:Was excited.. Not anymore.. (1)

filthpickle (1199927) | more than 3 years ago | (#36046710)

We all have our own, but Q3 perfected deathmatch IMO. But I never played any single player in Q1 or Q2.

Re:Was excited.. Not anymore.. (1)

xhrit (915936) | more than 3 years ago | (#36047258)

Quake Wars has no deathmatch, instead it has some of the most complex and rewarding multiplayer objectives available in a video game. After playing QW, mindless deathmatch games seem so boring.

Re:Was excited.. Not anymore.. (1)

doti (966971) | more than 3 years ago | (#36051430)

1. multiplayer quake is Quake III Arena

2. there will be a new multiplayer-only quake using rage engine (tech 5), and also a doom4 (single player)

Re:Was excited.. Not anymore.. (2)

torgis (840592) | more than 3 years ago | (#36047950)

I guess if you want to play a multiplayer shooter, go grab CoD#12 or whatever they are up to now.. shudder..

Meh. If you're looking for a shooter with good maps, weapons, and teamwork that requires some strategy to play, check out Battlefield: Bad Company or Battlefield 3 when it ships later this year. I don't know why everyone has a colossal hard-on for CoD series. I've played them all and they can be entertaining, but extremely one-dimensional. Maybe that's what the kids like these days - fast-paced arcade shooters - but give me something from the Battlefield series any day.

I grew up playing shooters, starting with Wolfenstein, then Doom, Quake, Quake 2, Quake 3, various Unreals, Tribes, Tribes 2, Half-Life, Team Fortress, Counter-Strike, Day of Defeat. Eventually got kind of burned out on the fast-paced deathmatch style. Battlefield 1942 was an underrated rebirth of the genre, only made better by the DesertCombat mod released a bit later, then BF2 and BF2142. Teamwork and strategy. Get in a good clan with voice chat and dominate a server or two and you'll see what I mean. Great stuff. Keeps you playing for years.

Re:Was excited.. Not anymore.. (1)

rotide (1015173) | more than 3 years ago | (#36050186)

You know, I loved, LOVED desert combat. Spent tons of hours learning to fly heli's alone. Battlefield 1942 was great all alone as well.

That being said, there are two companies I refuse to purchase from, Sony, and EA. The whole BF franchise sits with the latter. I'm going to have to respectfully decline the invitation to play those games, unfortunately.

Obviously my choice. Sad to say the only options for multiplayer ("good" multiplayer, anyways) is Activision's CoD #x or EA's Battlefield #x.. sigh.

Re:Was excited.. Not anymore.. (2)

torgis (840592) | more than 3 years ago | (#36050332)

Agreed. Desert Combat was the most fun shooter ever designed. I spent, oh I dunno, hundreds of hours playing on the "Apache Wars" servers learning how to fly vs planes and other choppers. Some people had supernatural levels of skill in an Apache. A few dozen hours there and I would get kicked from normal servers for "cheating" while in a chopper just because I shot down a few jets. There was nothing about that game that wasn't awesome. If you get bored flying, you could be infantry, or armor, or just camp an AA gun and grief fellow pilots.

It's a bummer that EA owns the franchise now, but to be honest, I'm willing to sacrifice that little part of my soul in order to play the new ones. BFBC2 on a PC is probably the best all-around shooter I've ever played. The destructible environments added a whole new dimension to the game. You don't need doors anymore when you have your "master key", aka 40mm grenade launcher. Pesky sniper in a building? Just open up a few holes in the walls and let your squadmates chuck a half dozen grenades in there. Awesome. You can buy it used from EA Store for $19.99 now. Give it a reconsider.

Re:Was excited.. Not anymore.. (1)

cowscows (103644) | more than 3 years ago | (#36050556)

BC2 is a pretty great game, but I feel like the battlefield series has lost a little bit of its charm. In BF1942, there was just always the goofiest stuff happening, which I guess broke immersion a good bit, but it really amusing. Planes crashing into all manner of things, ships doing weird stuff, people getting run down by all manner of vehicles.

BC2 just seems to have way less of those unexpected moments, and when they do happen they seem to happen so fast that it's hard to tell what's going on. Plus a lot of people seem to take it more seriously, and are more likely to get pissed off when they should be laughing. Although the regular game play is definitely solid.

anyone remember Marathon? (1)

v1 (525388) | more than 3 years ago | (#36046804)

...shipped with forge (level editor) and anvil (physics editor)

We has an absolute blast making our own levels, and there was a large community of level builders. A few projects (aleph one for example) actually built entirely new scenarios. There was also the ability to create custom weapons.

Editing = unsurprising. Next is ease of use. (2)

argStyopa (232550) | more than 3 years ago | (#36047324)

Doom3 shipped with editing built into the engine, so the fact that editing is built in is not much of a surprise.

The next big leap in modding will come when the UI for the editor is so substantial that it lets anyone (basically) build what they want.

Here's my point: running an editor used to be merely an exercise in visualization, and some game-engine arcana. Throw a brush here, brush there, texture that, toss in a light entity, check for leaks, and VOILA it was hello, world.

Now, due to the extraordinarily more powerful engines, and the ability of client systems to run more, simplicity is simply no longer tolerable. It used to be, for example, if you wanted to put a desk into a room, you put in a basic desk-shaped brush, and textured appropriately. Now you have to have a coffee cup, a desklight (with its own light entity), a chair, all breakable and movable. Even walls and windows all need to be breakable and have their own physics, etc.

Sure, it's trivia for professional modelers to build these things to suit, but this is also why AAA titles take hundreds and thousands of man-hours to create.

I believe that if they really want to see the modding community become as prolific as they were in the Quake2 days, they need to build into their engines a massive set of prefabs, and the ability to 'assemble' pieces from known articles, rather than having to design every last item (and property thereof) and texture from scratch. Leave the modders to be creative, and they will be.

Re:Editing = unsurprising. Next is ease of use. (1)

Darinbob (1142669) | more than 3 years ago | (#36050262)

I'm a bit confused here. I don't know anything about the game and have no interest in it. But how is it even remotely interesting news that they will have a common feature that's been around for decades?

Re:Editing = unsurprising. Next is ease of use. (1)

cowscows (103644) | more than 3 years ago | (#36050852)

Because, for various reasons including the ones that the parent post described, a lot of games these days are not shipping with mod tools.

This isn't groundbreaking info by any means, but it is a nice thing, and I'm sure plenty of people who like playing around with game modding are happy to hear about it.

outside the box (1)

jago25_98 (566531) | more than 3 years ago | (#36051188)

Yes, this is the point of the post.

When are we going to see more multiplayer games designed as multiplayer from the start rather than leaving it up to the mod community?

Great to see mod support. That's the thing about ID, that great sort of attitude.

However, there might need to be more than this for it to be really successful.

For example, melding strategy more with the FPS, linking to Facebook... able to game on your mobile phone when you're not shooting... things like that.

It's Quake5 to me. Building on that engine all the time. That's good and ok but I love ID so much for releasing source code and everything that I want them to beat Nintendo and everyone.

The thing is, it's thinking within the box. The first thing is that there's a 3D engine. So the first thing is that ID games are 3D... then the next thing is shooting. Hang on! Who said there should be a visual interface at all? Why not start with an audio interface with no visuals at all? That would force thinking outside the box. That's only one example.

Modding is the key thing about the PC. Should be more of this on consoles. Perhaps even a different method of development. The way it came about was Doom, then mods came off of that. It doesn't still have to be that way. Maybe it could be engine only, or allow modders to charge somehow (that might not work either... just guessing).

My brother got into programming due to modding. It's totally different when you're playing a game you made, with the other developers who you're mates with.

The social side is key. I can't believe there's single mode anymore, I can't be bothered with that since a long time ago I don't know why people still do it.

It seems a shame to say all this when clearly there's so much effort gone in here.

That said, there could be a lot going on behind the scenes, like those jumping robots, that looks interesting.

Oh and yeah, the car is odd and sounds stupid, though I can see the sweet idea of winging it through shooting around at the same time, I can where that was attempting to go, but it didn't work out quite like that. I mean, you could have instead actually been inside the car with bullets flying all round, right?

Perhaps take a step back and simply create an environment to coordinate stuff from other games and mods... or, seeing as patents ruins that, set the scene for others to mod in those features and then coordinate the result.

Re:Editing = unsurprising. Next is ease of use. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36055888)

It's an ad, really. And recently these tools are being left out or only included along with a whole lot of red tape in more and more games so its sort of interesting that they're bucking the trend. I'd hesitate to call it 'news' though.

Very nice ID (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36047348)

Now give Tom Hall the intellectual property rights to Commander Keen so I can look forward to the release of a REAL game.

this so-called "RAGE" looks great, but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36047628)

They won't be able to compete with the next COD installment: the rape of bin Laden.

RAGE = Fallout 3 + HL2 + Doom3 (1)

tedgyz (515156) | more than 3 years ago | (#36054248)

Nice blend of some great franchises. I am eagerly awaiting it. Spider drones look awesome.

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