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Idle: Four Injured In iPad Fight At Beijing Apple Store

timothy posted more than 3 years ago | from the iiiiiiiiiiipad-fiiiiiight! dept.

China 194

fysdt writes "Four people were taken to hospital and a glass door smashed as a near-riot broke out at Beijing's top Apple store among crowds rushing to snap up the popular iPad 2 tablet computer, state press said Sunday. Angry consumers began rushing the store on Saturday afternoon after a 'foreign' Apple employee allegedly stepped into the crowd to push and beat people suspected of queue jumping, the Beijing News said."

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194 comments

chinese racism revealed yet again... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36062030)

of course it was the foreigner. who can trust laowai? first they started the opium wars, now they're jumping into crowds and beating people.

Re:chinese racism revealed yet again... (4, Insightful)

Samantha Wright (1324923) | more than 3 years ago | (#36062304)

I think the perspective of the propaganda writer who fabricated this piece was probably that the iPad 2 is a continuation of the opium wars. Oh, terrible capitalism, forced on the innocent bosom of the Chinese people, who are clearly and totally represented by their beloved government which in no way whatsoever suppresses or manipulates its people!

Society needs the ability to call people out for this kind of counterproductive crap. Thanks for helping to set back Star Trek another hundred years, unnamed propaganda writer. You could be working against nationalist prejudice, and trying to unite humanity, but instead you have to look at life like a competition. I hope that some day a stock market crash is named after you and your ilk.

Re:chinese racism revealed yet again... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36062430)

Or it could just be that the foreigners do have different standards, and thus different ways of dealing with situations. This happens in the US and other Western nations, too.

In the US, for example, many foreigners from Mexico are often known to disregard many American laws and customs. The enter America illegally, they aren't educated enough or otherwise capable of functioning within American society, and many partake in various sorts of crime. Some of them outright refuse to work legitimately, but still feel entitled to social services paid for by hard-working American taxpayers. It's understandable why there's lots of anti-foreigner sentiment in many of the states bordering Mexico.

It works the other way, too. Once while on business in NYC, I witnessed an older lady across the street trip and fall while walking. It took me a couple of minutes to get across, but in the meantime I saw hundreds upon hundreds of Americans walk right past her, without offering any sort of help. By the time I got to her, a couple of other people had stopped to help her. It turned out that they were Dutch tourists. They even spoke English better than many Americans I've had to deal with. In the Netherlands, it's just common courtesy to help somebody in distress. In America, and especially NYC, it isn't.

Re:chinese racism revealed yet again... (-1, Troll)

filthpickle (1199927) | more than 3 years ago | (#36062904)

this is absolute nonsense.

Re:chinese racism revealed yet again... (2)

asdf7890 (1518587) | more than 3 years ago | (#36063458)

I think what you saw is more general: it is big city behaviour, not unique to NYC or America. While it is worse in some countries, it is a general facet of the way our behaviour seems to be tweaked by high density urban living.

Re:chinese racism revealed yet again... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36062776)

Chinese racisim? That's like calling a nigger a racist; it just cannot be. Only white people are racists.

Re:chinese racism revealed yet again... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36062922)

I assume you are either:
1. Being sarcastic.
2. Unable to speak Chinese and therefore ignorant of said racism.
3. Not perceived as 'foreign' by Chinese people and therefore unaware of it.

Re:chinese racism revealed yet again... (2)

Giometrix (932993) | more than 3 years ago | (#36063702)

I assume you are either: 1. Being sarcastic. 2. Unable to speak Chinese and therefore ignorant of said racism. 3. Not perceived as 'foreign' by Chinese people and therefore unaware of it.

you forgot 4. troll.

Apple introduces the iBrawl.. (2)

strobe74 (617588) | more than 3 years ago | (#36062042)

Coming to an Apple store near you!

You can't buy that kind of publicity... Jobs is appeased.. for now.

Re:Apple introduces the iBrawl.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36062302)

Well at an apple store it's probably not so much of a brawl is it is a fag-fight slapfest.

god bless capitalism (1, Informative)

Hazel Bergeron (2015538) | more than 3 years ago | (#36062060)

And before you whine that iPad factories give better labour opportunities than the rice paddies, the same argument was used 200 years ago in England. Land use changes by country landlords, the increasing cost of living space and the goldrush mentality brought on by the success of initial migrants persuaded people into city slums: by the time they'd realised their fate a few years later, there was no way of moving back.

If capitalism were a success, we'd all be working fewer hours and adults would be living significantly longer. We are not and they are not.

Re:god bless capitalism (4, Insightful)

Draek (916851) | more than 3 years ago | (#36062144)

If capitalism were a success, we'd all be working fewer hours and adults would be living significantly longer.

Proof? I could just as well claim "if socialism were a success we'd be building homes on Mars by now", but that wouldn't prove anything other than my own ignorance of socialism and martian home-building.

Re:god bless capitalism (0)

Hazel Bergeron (2015538) | more than 3 years ago | (#36062426)

Is that your clever way of saying, "Oh but we've never had capitalism because THE GOVERNMENT"?

Either state that the problem with America is that businessmen have never been free enough to own and to exploit, or concede that America is showing what capitalism is really like. If you believe this is a false dichotomy, justify your belief.

Re:god bless capitalism (3, Insightful)

LordLimecat (1103839) | more than 3 years ago | (#36062632)

If you feel capitalism is such a failure, go live in a communist country.

Whats that, theyre all ghettos? Yea, theres a reason for that.

Re:god bless capitalism (1)

Hazel Bergeron (2015538) | more than 3 years ago | (#36062692)

If I said I had three heads, would that give me three heads?

If you claimed a country was communist, would that make it communist?

If the problem with America is that it is not capitalist enough, say so. That's a fair start to any counterargument to "capitalism has failed".

Re:god bless capitalism (2)

TheVelvetFlamebait (986083) | more than 3 years ago | (#36062706)

Is that your clever way of saying, "Oh but we've never had capitalism because THE GOVERNMENT"?

Not the GP, but I can say unequivocally that no, that is definitely not what he is saying. He's saying that capitalism promises short working hours and lifespans considerably longer than our current 80+ years, as much as socialism promises us summer homes on Mars.

Capitalism promises (more or less) a functioning society that progresses more efficiently than socialism. If you want to show that capitalism doesn't work, then that's what you need to show.

Re:god bless capitalism (1)

Hazel Bergeron (2015538) | more than 3 years ago | (#36062840)

So more time alive - specifically, more time alive and not having to labour to survive - is not the defining characteristic of a "society that progresses"?

Re:god bless capitalism (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36063410)

You're not looking at it right.

Yes, we still work as much as before (actually, that's not true everywhere - Europe and Canada have much better working conditions than the USA). But today, building a 500Gb hard drive requires less work than it would have 20 years ago. Or, in another way to put it: we could very easily produce 5Gb hard drives if we wanted to. That requires little work today, thanks to our advanced technology and knowledge. But we do not want 5Gb hard drives, we want 500Gb or more.
If we wanted to use only technology that was available 20 years ago, then we would not need to work much. I'm sure a simple TV, with one channel, no sound and no colors could be built in minutes with today's machines. But people don't want technology from 20 years ago, even if it is very easy and fast to make.

Capitalism does reduce the time required to work. Unfortunately, we constantly want more. When black and white TVs are easy and fast to make, we want HD or 3D. People working for Sony would have lots of holidays if we asked them to make only old, basic TVs. But we want modern, advanced and harder to make TVs.
When growing vegetables is finally much faster, the population has increased so we must grow more of them.

As for longevity - do you have any knowledge of medicine or biology? Even basic knowledge?
I'm not sure what makes you think an economic system can make us live longer. Yeah, an economic system can improve our comfort and living conditions, but this can only increase our life expectancy by very little. Comfort and good quality can not make you live 200 years. Currently, we are reaching the limit of human longevity - right now it is 80 years in developed countries, and perhaps with better technology we could improve it to maximum 100. Comfort, good living conditions, useful technology etc will not make you live longer than 100 years.
If you want to increase human life beyond an average of 100 years, you need very specific technology that focuses specifically on this. You need to find a therapy of some kind that acts on our cells or DNA or whatever... That's research, it has nothing to do with economy. And in fact, there is research going on right now about this. I heard progress is being made, but we still do not have a solution. However, people born after 1980 can hope to never get old. It's possible in 20-40 years we will already have a treatment to stay young forever.
And by the way, we do live longer today than we used to 10, 20 or even 50 years ago. The improvement is small, but that's normal - you can not make people live 10 years longer just by giving them better computers, better bed or warmer homes. What cave have you been living in all those years? Open a history book!

Re:god bless capitalism (1)

Hazel Bergeron (2015538) | more than 3 years ago | (#36063556)

Are you sure we want more, bigger, better TVs? Or are we perhaps so distracted by the constant command to work and and work and consume and work for no particular reason that all we have is stupid toys to waste our copious free time on?

As for living longer, just as infant mortality has been thoroughly reduced through social health and sanitation programmes, older people's lives are extended by good education and good observation. This extends from a less competitive environment encouraging less dangerous risk-taking (young men still mostly die from car accidents... or suicide) to state provision for screening and early treatment for cancers.

Re:god bless capitalism (1)

TheVelvetFlamebait (986083) | more than 3 years ago | (#36063498)

But we have 80+ years! How much more do you expect before you're content not to call capitalism a failure? Do we need to be living indefinitely?

Re:god bless capitalism (2, Insightful)

Hazel Bergeron (2015538) | more than 3 years ago | (#36063586)

Well, if you consider life expectancy at birth, the US is tied in 36th place in the latest UN list with... Cuba. Hehe. Viva la capitalizacion!

Re:god bless capitalism (1)

TheVelvetFlamebait (986083) | more than 3 years ago | (#36064030)

OK, let's consider life expectancy at birth (source: Wikipedia [wikipedia.org] . Who's number one? Who cares? All I want to know: capitalist, socialist, or other.

1: Capitalist
2: Very, very capitalist
3: Capitalist
4: Capitalist
5. Capitalist
6: Capitalist
7. Capitalist
8. Capitalist
9. Capitalist
10. Socialist? No, actually, I'm pretty sure it's capitalist.

I think you get the pattern. Where does socialism come in? I could be wrong, seeing as I don't usually keep track of other countries' economies, but I believe socialism comes in at number 36 with Cuba. Let's just say that socialism isn't at the forefront of life expectancy.

Viva la reason!

Re:god bless capitalism (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36062580)

Capitalism makes people work hard, because they have a purpose and goal to achieve something they build or develop. On the other hand socialism says everyone gets their equal and fair share if they work or not.So tell me, why would anyone with a goal and purpose give give that to someone who is lazy, looter, or parasite. Not me.

Re:god bless capitalism (3, Insightful)

Hazel Bergeron (2015538) | more than 3 years ago | (#36062662)

Capitalism makes people work hard, because they have a purpose and goal to achieve something they build or develop.

Under every regime from anarchism to fascism people can have "a purpose and goal to achieve something". If you're talking about the workers having control of the means of production, i.e. the productive having access to the resources they need to achieve their goals, that's precisely socialism. In capitalism, the person building/developing is usually not the owner of the results of the work.

On the other hand socialism says everyone gets their equal and fair share if they work or not.

No form of socialism has never said such a thing. 20th century socialism is worker control of the means of production. Marxist socialism is the stage before communism where everyone does his part and is rewarded according to his labour rather than according to his capital input.

You may be thinking of social democracy of the sort in Western European nations, but even that has no notion of "equal and fair share" - the welfare safety net just provides a minimum to enable people to pick themselves up, or to maintain people who are too disabled/sick to work. It also provides a level of assistance to lift people with certain conditions up to the level of someone without that condition.

Or perhaps you're thinking of Marxist communism, which also doesn't give people an "equal and fair share" - it gives to people according to their need. Just because Bob without no legs gets a wheelchair, it doesn't mean you get one.

What are you thinking of?

So tell me, why would anyone with a goal and purpose give give that to someone who is lazy, looter, or parasite. Not me.

Observing the outcome of elections in the UK and the US over the past decade, I'd say that rewarding rich, lazy, looting parasites appears to be the main goal of the citizens of those two countries.

Re:god bless capitalism (1)

ctid (449118) | more than 3 years ago | (#36062268)

If capitalism were a success, we'd all be working fewer hours ...

Why do you think that this should have happened already? Maybe in 100 years or 200 years, we will all be working fewer hours. Adults are already living significantly longer than they were even 30 years ago in developed economies. as these UK figures show [statistics.gov.uk] . I think if we are to make bald statements ("capitalism doesn't work", "socialism doesn't work") we need to look at things over a very long period of time. A single incident isn't going to give much insight either way.

Re:god bless capitalism (1)

Hazel Bergeron (2015538) | more than 3 years ago | (#36062458)

So you're saying that the purpose of capitalism is to make things better 200 years from now? Was that its purpose 200 years ago? You sound exactly like the preacher: suffer today and you will find glory in the afterlife. Except you're not even offering glory for me, but for... the children I don't have?

Also, your table gives at birth life expectancy.

Re:god bless capitalism (1)

LordLimecat (1103839) | more than 3 years ago | (#36062678)

So you're saying that the purpose of capitalism is to make things better 200 years from now? Was that its purpose 200 years ago? You sound exactly like the preacher: suffer today and you will find glory in the afterlife. Except you're not even offering glory for me, but for... the children I don't have?

One can look at any country where Communism sprung up and how within a few short years they became gigantic slums, and then look at countries where capitalism has been in place (AFAIK, most of the world in the last several hundred years), and see how they have progressively improved; take your pick which you prefer. In the last hundred years in capitalist countries, we have had incredible advances in standards of living; in the last hundred years in socialist countries, you see downturns, in the most notable examples of a rather radical kind (China, USSR, North Korea, Cuba).

So really, take your pick which you want to live in. If you think the economic system is bad, you really should move elsewhere because no amount of voting is going to change it, and most of the other people dont WANT your kind of economic system.

Re:god bless capitalism (1, Insightful)

Hazel Bergeron (2015538) | more than 3 years ago | (#36062822)

The USSR had a downturn? I am not sure what they teach in American state schools, but can you begin to imagine what life would have been like as a peasant under the Tsar? 20 years later, its industrial might challenged Hitler. A decade later it was ahead of the US in the space race. When the US was still keeping niggers on the fields and women in the kitchen, the Soviets were providing excellent technical education and opportunity according to merit.

As for Cuba, I know Americans aren't allowed there (perhaps you'll be able to get in if you go via another country in the free world, like everyone else?), but it's a decent American country with good healthcare and fair education, doing thoroughly better than any other country which has been bombarded by US hate propaganda and embargo for the past half century.

NK, well... I know little about NK. As do you. Because it's really hard to get accurate information about NK. There's lots of propaganda, but very little verifiable information available to the general public. I'm sure you'll quote propaganda. Looks like a cultish dictatorship from the outside, but again, it's hard to say.

China? Well, they're certainly the most successful nation on earth right now, if success is measured in actually producing rather than trading in invisibles. And, like in the US, a lovely place to live if you're part of the middle class (except its is growing while the US is losing its own). It's its own special gem: while US government serves business interests, Chinese business serves government interests. The government still invests heavily in public works projects, so it's not exactly feudalism.. and it doesn't have the nationalism and superiority complex typical of fascism. Hard to say what it is. Certainly neither capitalist nor communist.

If I had worthwhile options, I'd take a pick.

Re:god bless capitalism (2)

filthpickle (1199927) | more than 3 years ago | (#36062966)

The USSR had a downturn?

Well, since it doesn't exist anymore...I would say that they kinda hit a rough patch.

China? Well, they're certainly the most successful nation on earth right now, if success is measured in actually producing rather than trading in invisibles.

China and the US both need each other. China would be in deep trouble if there weren't American's to buy what they make.

Re:god bless capitalism (1)

BasilBrush (643681) | more than 3 years ago | (#36063206)

The rest of the world also buys what China makes. They'd obviously be making less money if the US wasn't buying, but they wouldn't be "in trouble".

Re:god bless capitalism (1)

filthpickle (1199927) | more than 3 years ago | (#36063314)

True, but we are their best customer. You don't chase your best customer off. This is way way way better than what we used to have. Which was blowing all of us up.

Re:god bless capitalism (1)

Hazel Bergeron (2015538) | more than 3 years ago | (#36063332)

Well, since it doesn't exist anymore...I would say that they kinda hit a rough patch.

Since the individuals making up the various countries in the Soviet Union voted with a clear majority to keep the Union, the end of the USSR being the result of a minority revolution following Glasnost's breaking the Soviet command structure, I would say that the Union was a sabotaged success.

The aim is not to beat everyone. The aim is to improve life, and the population of the USSR wanted the USSR to remain. (Satellite states wanted independence, just as many states are fed up with their American puppet governments. But they weren't part of the USSR.)

It's a pity that most Internet-based accounts of the USSR come from kids who can only remember the '80s and who still can't remember it accurately: it'd be like hearing a lament on capitalism from people whose formative years were 2007 to 2015. "I remember the bailouts, the cuts, the takeovers, the offshoring, the union-bashing, the tax increases, the decade-old wars, the new wars..."

Re:god bless capitalism (1)

filthpickle (1199927) | more than 3 years ago | (#36063374)

we aren't going to convince each other...I bet we would get along famously,

Re:god bless capitalism (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36063390)

China and the US both need each other. China would be in deep trouble if there weren't American's to buy what they make.

Wasn't this originally about how Chinese couldn't buy Chinese made products because there weren't enough made?

Re:god bless capitalism (1)

filthpickle (1199927) | more than 3 years ago | (#36063508)

I think it was....but you can't call me out for going OT

Re:god bless capitalism (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36063602)

I think it was....but you can't call me out for going OT

Wooosh. Considering your reasoning powers in this thread, you really can't get my point.

Re:god bless capitalism (1)

filthpickle (1199927) | more than 3 years ago | (#36063772)

ok...you got to say whoosh. Congrats. I wasn't arguning with you.

Re:god bless capitalism (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36063490)

China also needs capitalist nations to show them how to make things in the first place. They invent nothing, they copy what we do. And then they sell it to us.
Without capitalism, China produces nothing and also has nobody to give them money. China is a leech, and this is a failure.

Re:god bless capitalism (2)

Hazel Bergeron (2015538) | more than 3 years ago | (#36063612)

Oh oh just like Japan in the '70s. Guess what happened 10 years later.

Of course, China and Japan already have much better process management (see esp. Japan on incremental improvement) than in US factories. Yet the US still stubbornly even refuses to play catch-up. All those MBAs must know what they're talking about, right?

Re:god bless capitalism (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36063188)

Girls should be married young and obey their husband in all things. They should be in the kitchen.

Right now you have wealth but not happiness for men.
It's just enough to keep them passive, and women's interests on top.

Re:god bless capitalism (1)

ErikZ (55491) | more than 3 years ago | (#36063336)

"I am not sure what they teach in American state schools, but can you begin to imagine what life would have been like as a peasant under the Tsar?"

I'm sure it must have been terrible, after all, if it were great, Stalin would have let everyone know. Right?

I'm also highly amused that you equate blacks working in the fields as slaves, but people who are sent to work for free in forced labor camps and are trapped within their county are not.

Re:god bless capitalism (1)

Hazel Bergeron (2015538) | more than 3 years ago | (#36063514)

If you don't understand the difference between being put to work for a crime and being put to work for the colour of your skin, I'm not sure what to say.

Now Stalin was obviously single-minded to the point of paranoid cruelty in certain years, just as Churchill was when, say, he let a million starve in Bengal. But Churchill gave his Empire away to the US, while Stalin brought more progress in shorter time to his nation than any leader throughout the twentieth century... so it's worth your being precise about what you're accusing him of. Try to avoid Wikipedia quotes.

(Of course, a glance at US prison statistics and US prison ownership confirms that the US still engaged in race-based enslavement. Beating Russia even by numbers. [nationmaster.com] )

Re:god bless capitalism (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36063108)

I think the key part of your comment is AFAIK.

Trust me, you don't. In fact you have such a breathtaking ignorance of life that it gives one a rough sense of the infinite.

Re:god bless capitalism (1)

ctid (449118) | more than 3 years ago | (#36062738)

"Like the preacher"? Bit of a straw man there.

However, to address your argument, what would you say is the point of human progress? Surely the whole point of civilisation is that things get better over time? Over centuries in enlightened economies, people have worked for less hours, become wealthier and lived longer. It would be a very solipsistic view of all of recorded history to claim that we should have arrived at the point where most of our time can be spent in leisure just in time for you and I to enjoy it.

Re:god bless capitalism (1)

Hazel Bergeron (2015538) | more than 3 years ago | (#36062908)

Any regime which does not provide relief for people currently on earth, instead promising something better for future generations / afterlife reincarnations, is a dangerous con. People claiming to be capitalist, communist, fascist, anarchist and everywhere in between have been guilty of it.

This doesn't mean instant gratification, but it must mean that the society you are living in must exist to make your life better providing you do not act at the expense of others in that society.

It's expected that things might be even better in 200 years' time. But that's a side effect.

Re:god bless capitalism (1)

ctid (449118) | more than 3 years ago | (#36063132)

Any regime which does not provide relief for people currently on earth, instead promising something better for future generations / afterlife reincarnations, is a dangerous con.

This is not what you were saying originally. You said: "If capitalism were a success, we'd all be working fewer hours and adults would be living significantly longer. We are not and they are not."
I believe that people do work fewer hours than they did 200 years ago (at least in the UK) and I know that they do live longer (again in the UK). I believe also that the society I live in does make my life better (than it would have been in the distant past). However, I believe that someone like me but living 200 years in the future will probably have a better life than the one I am enjoying. That's progress and I believe that that is the point of it all, even though I don't have kids.

Re:god bless capitalism (1)

BasilBrush (643681) | more than 3 years ago | (#36063298)

200 years ago in the UK was well into the industrial revolution and the enclosure acts. They long hours that people were working was under capitalism. The reduction of working hours has been as a result of liberal reforms and trade unionism. With capitalisms second wind beginning with Thatcher, and the decline of liberalism and trade unionism, people's working hours have again been getting longer.

Longer life spans have been largely down to improvements in medical science and in the structures of healthcare. In the case of the UK, the very socialist NHS.

So it's hard to make the case that either of these came as a result of capitalism.

Re:god bless capitalism (1)

ctid (449118) | more than 3 years ago | (#36063462)

I agree to a certain extent, but what preceded the industrial revolution was certainly not shorter working hours (or indeed better working conditions).

Re:god bless capitalism (1)

aliquis (678370) | more than 3 years ago | (#36063794)

I think I've read how life length has expanded by 8 years in 100 years. Don't know if it was locally (Sweden) or not.

However many more died earlier before.

Re:god bless capitalism (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36062274)

And before you whine that iPad factories give better labour opportunities than the rice paddies, the same argument was used 200 years ago in England. Land use changes by country landlords, the increasing cost of living space and the goldrush mentality brought on by the success of initial migrants persuaded people into city slums: by the time they'd realised their fate a few years later, there was no way of moving back.

If capitalism were a success, we'd all be working fewer hours and adults would be living significantly longer. We are not and they are not.

You're kidding, right? A majority of the working class in the US (and today's middle class since it didn't exist) used to work 10-12 hours a day, six days a week to put food on the table and little else. They burned 3000-4000 calories per day and were lean and fit. Today many people work 8-9 hours a day, five days a week, and 10 hours on the longer side (yes I know there are exceptions). Today's middle class has to hit the treadmill just to burn more than 2000 calories per day on the days they get the motivation to get their fat asses off the couch.

I don't know if you should necessarily call this "better," but life expectancy has doubled in the last 200 years, and we're certainly working less.

Re:god bless capitalism (1)

Hazel Bergeron (2015538) | more than 3 years ago | (#36062406)

A majority of the working class in the US (and today's middle class since it didn't exist) used to work 10-12 hours a day, six days a week to put food on the table and little else.

That's funny, I know lots of people like that in the US today. Oh, yes, there's a dwindling "middle class" which it's great to be in if you're still in it. I don't know how that helps otherwise.

They burned 3000-4000 calories per day and were lean and fit.

Yes, that's another problem with modern living: we either outsource jobs to countries with fewer worker protections or we simply develop technology to do the work instead. Because we treat "the economy" like religion and the US has a legacy Protestant work ethic (or, simply, because it's the best way of exploiting you), the new working man is a member of an elite cadre of chair warmers.

Today many people work 8-9 hours a day, five days a week, and 10 hours on the longer side

Really? How many people actually have all the remainder of the week completely free from work duties? What is more, twentieth century labour movements to limit working hours have been neutered.

life expectancy has doubled in the last 200 years

Because infant mortality has reduced, because we have social works and health projects: clean water, vaccinations, etc. The increase in adult life expectancy is not so impressive.

Re:god bless capitalism (1)

LordLimecat (1103839) | more than 3 years ago | (#36062712)

That's funny, I know lots of people like that in the US today.

Anecdotal evidence FTW! I could just as easily respond with hundreds of people I know from different backgrounds and different parts of the country and world; Ive not heard anyone complaining about capitalism or espousing socialism, pretty much ever. The folks Ive heard complain about hours dont generally have complaints about their life; they could very easily work less hours, and lower their standard of living, but even if they didnt work at ALL their standard of living would vastly exceed 95% of the rest of the world's.

Re:god bless capitalism (1)

Hazel Bergeron (2015538) | more than 3 years ago | (#36062946)

Ive not heard anyone complaining about capitalism or espousing socialism, pretty much ever.

What part of the southern United States do you live in?

Re:god bless capitalism (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36063106)

the part that can kick your ass.

Just kidding...was irresistable...

Re:god bless capitalism (1)

SquirrelDeth (1972694) | more than 3 years ago | (#36063274)

Um I work 10 -12 hr per day usually 6 days a week to pay my mortgage and be able to buy my kids good food once in a while instead of a steady diet of beans and mac and cheese. Now when you refer to middle class you mean pencil pushers and the like. My knees, back and shoulders hurt enough that most nights I can't sleep without pain killers. I used to make $10,000 per month and had 8 employees before the pencil pushers screwed everyone over and the housing market went to shit. Now I have to compete with Mexican workers and I work with my dad and brother because we can't afford to hire anyone. Last month I made $2500 (before tax) for over 200 hr of work. And since I live in a small town I can't even afford to drive to the nearest city to work and I can't sell my house for enough to pay off the mortgage (I built a 978 ft square bungalow in 2006 so I don't live in some ridiculous mansion). And I'm not fat either I weigh 135 lb right now I've lost 25 lb since the beginning of 2007.

Re:god bless capitalism (1)

LordLimecat (1103839) | more than 3 years ago | (#36062594)

"Living longer" has diminishing returns, you know. And many times "working fewer hours" is an option that many people have; they choose to work longer to improve their standard of living (which, I might point out, is so ridiculously high in capitalist countries compared to the rest of the world that your statement is borderline comedy).

Re:god bless capitalism (1)

Hazel Bergeron (2015538) | more than 3 years ago | (#36062960)

How many countries have you lived in?

Re:god bless capitalism (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36062690)

> If capitalism were a success, we'd all be working fewer hours and adults would be living significantly longer

Umm... we DO work fewer hours and live significantly longer. (Or maybe that was your point, and I just got whooshed?)

In times past it was normal for people to work almost their entire waking moment just to survive. Today most people can get by OK on 8 hours a day working, and life expectancy has risen dramatically.

Hell, there is so much excess that in some nations (cough USA cough) even poor people are fat.

Re:god bless capitalism (1)

Richard_at_work (517087) | more than 3 years ago | (#36062694)

Today I can work 38 hours a week for a decent living wage, and expect to live well into my 80s, probably into my 90s and with a decent chance of seeing 100. My great grandfather had to work 80 hours a week for a poor mans wage, the entire household had to contribute to earnings and he was lucky to see his 70s.

I think we have come on leaps and bounds since my grandfathers day - I'm not sure how you could say otherwise.

Re:god bless capitalism (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36063084)

Eight centuries of annual hours

13th century - Adult male peasant, U.K.: 1620 hours
Calculated from Gregory Clark's estimate of 150 days per family, assumes 12 hours per day, 135 days per year for adult male ("Impatience, Poverty, and Open Field Agriculture", mimeo, 1986)

14th century - Casual laborer, U.K.: 1440 hours

Calculated from Nora Ritchie's estimate of 120 days per year. Assumes 12-hour day. ("Labour conditions in Essex in the reign of Richard II", in E.M. Carus-Wilson, ed., Essays in Economic History, vol. II, London: Edward Arnold, 1962).

Middle ages - English worker: 2309 hours

Juliet Schor's estime of average medieval laborer working two-thirds of the year at 9.5 hours per day

1400-1600 - Farmer-miner, adult male, U.K.: 1980 hours

Calculated from Ian Blanchard's estimate of 180 days per year. Assumes 11-hour day ("Labour productivity and work psychology in the English mining industry, 1400-1600", Economic History Review 31, 23 (1978).

1840 - Average worker, U.K.: 3105-3588 hours

Based on 69-hour week; hours from W.S. Woytinsky, "Hours of labor," in Encyclopedia of the Social Sciences, vol. III (New York: Macmillan, 1935). Low estimate assumes 45 week year, high one assumes 52 week year

1850 - Average worker, U.S.: 3150-3650 hours

Based on 70-hour week; hours from Joseph Zeisel, "The workweek in American industry, 1850-1956", Monthly Labor Review 81, 23-29 (1958). Low estimate assumes 45 week year, high one assumes 52 week year

1987 - Average worker, U.S.: 1949 hours

From The Overworked American: The Unexpected Decline of Leisure, by Juliet B. Schor, Table 2.4

1988 - Manufacturing workers, U.K.: 1856 hours

Calculated from Bureau of Labor Statistics data, Office of Productivity and Technology

In other words average people in the USA have and continue to WORK MORE HOURS THAN ANYONE ELSE IN HISTORY!

Re:god bless capitalism (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36063512)

Today I can work 38 hours a week for a decent living wage, and expect to live well into my 80s, probably into my 90s and with a decent chance of seeing 100. My great grandfather had to work 80 hours a week for a poor mans wage, the entire household had to contribute to earnings and he was lucky to see his 70s.

I think we have come on leaps and bounds since my grandfathers day - I'm not sure how you could say otherwise.

How much of that is because "socialism" provides you with social welfare, Medicare, Medicaid and 401(k), things your Granddad didn't have?

Re:god bless capitalism (1)

gilesjuk (604902) | more than 3 years ago | (#36062698)

Foxconn make stuff for Apple, HP, Dell, Microsoft, Intel Sony, Nintendo and others.

So why focus solely on Apple?

Re:god bless capitalism (1)

captain_sweatpants (1997280) | more than 3 years ago | (#36062870)

I think you'll find that life expectancy has been steadily increasing for the last few hundred years and we mostly work now because we want to buy lots of useless/shiny stuff, not because we really have to. Before capitalism people used to be satisfied with a warm place to sleep and a full belly, even if they had to work from dawn until dusk to achieve it. If they made it passed 30 they'd consider themselves extremely lucky. So actually capitalism is a resounding success according to the measures you selected.

I saw a report the other day stating that the supply of cheap labour is rapidly drying up in China putting pressure on wages. Once they start getting used to their higher wages they'll start expecting better working conditions too. So I think the Chinese are doing okay.

Re:god bless capitalism (1)

poity (465672) | more than 3 years ago | (#36063158)

If capitalism were a success, we'd all be working fewer hours and adults would be living significantly longer. We are not and they are not.

Downward path of working hours in US history (2 pages down) [eh.net]
[PDF warning]Upward path of life expectancy in US history (page 11) [senate.gov]

inb4 more excuses

Re:god bless capitalism (1)

Hazel Bergeron (2015538) | more than 3 years ago | (#36063844)

Working hours - Which table are you pointing at to argue your point, please? The data shows a plateau since the 1930s, recalling the evil left wing New Deal, although the Adamson Act affected railroad workers earlier. In general, we can clearly see the collective bargaining power in the decades around the beginning of the 20th century and the response from government. More recent data reflect an increase in more recent decades, though it's a shame you've given little since 1980, when the trend really began to see a reverse.

Life expectancy - about the fifth misreading? Which part of adult sounds like at birth to you? But credit where credit's due, life expectancy at birth has gone up in the US. Well done. You're tied around 36th place with Cuba now.

Re:god bless capitalism (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36064084)

Funny how the first repeatedly mentions how Labor Unions brought down working hours, and specifically calls out merchant capitalism for raising working hours.

Re:god bless capitalism (1)

PinchDuck (199974) | more than 3 years ago | (#36063622)

I disagree with you, but won't bother with a back and forth. I'm guessing that your opinion is well considered over several years, as is mine, and won't be swayed by the same tired old arguments. Instead, I encourage you to demonstrate me a more efficient and effective economic system. For example, I know that many communes have been started over the years, and while they have a high failure rate, some are very successful and self sustaining. The problem is that the model can't seem to grow beyond a hundred people or so. Genuine, non-coercive communism doesn't seem to scale well. Capitalism scales very well. It also seems to adapt to different conditions. This can lead to maladaptive situations, such as monopolistic companies buying/burying competitors, or companies buying legislators and changing laws to their benefit. On the other hand, capitalism seems to flourish organically when given a chance. A great example is the American brewing industry. After Congress modified the laws that benefited the few large brewers, micro brewers started everywhere and are flourishing. Many people make a living brewing and distributing beer using a classic capitalist model (selling shares in their company to raise capital to invest in equipment and start the business). It is a great success story, shoes that capitalism works very well, and consumers have a wide variety of great products to choose from. Socialist systems scale rather well, but still rely on a basis of capitalism to generate the wealth, and therefore the revenue that the State uses to provide it's services. When socialist governments choke off or outlaw the capitalist foundation, they become impoverished over time. Cuba is an excellent example of this. The economy perks up when private ownership and enterprise are allowed, it gets depressed when the State cracks down. You state "If capitalism worked...", meaning that you think capitalism doesn't work. Show me a better economic system that doesn't rely on capitalism at its roots that scales well and isn't coercive in nature. To my knowledge, one doesn't exist, but I'm always open to new ideas.

Re:god bless capitalism (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36064188)

Why would successful capitalism lead to less working and longer living? I just watched Khan Academy's fine video on capitalism and it explains that hard working is the essence of capitalism.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NJEeEUUhaI [youtube.com]

Western influence (3, Funny)

Kabloink (834009) | more than 3 years ago | (#36062066)

Product in short supply. Crowds rushing to get shiny product and trampling others in the process. Poorly trained employees.

It's just like Black Friday at Walmart.

Re:Western influence (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36062102)

Product in short supply. Crowds rushing to get shiny product and trampling others in the process. Poorly trained employees.

It's just like Black Friday at Walmart.

Um no. I didn't see any morbidly obese people.

The trampling in China is much gentler because of the small normal weight people. If this happened in the US, many many people would have been crushed and there would have been an Earthquake with the resulting tsunami.

Please stop commenting (1)

UBfusion (1303959) | more than 3 years ago | (#36062086)

Apple needs no more advertisement, the East was won many decades ago.

Re:Please stop commenting (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36062128)

Walled gardens, closed source, and DRM won. I think it's time to close slashdot.

iPad & Rule 34 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36062182)

It's okay, Rule 34 says someone will remake this as a porn movie of Chinese women throwing used iTampons at one another.

New Record for Slashdot Being Current (4, Funny)

jacksonyee (590218) | more than 3 years ago | (#36062106)

I just read this article [chinadaily.com.cn] on China Daily this morning about the mad rush for iPad 2s' today, saw a clip of this story on CCTV News half an hour ago, then come to read Slashdot only to find out that this story is the top of the front page. I've been reading Slashdot since 1997, and I'm used to stories being submitted days, weeks, months, and sometimes years after the fact. Apple fans going crazy for new products is too trite for news nowadays, but Slashdot being current is a rather creepy occurrence... I'm not sure whether to be pleased or to expect Duke Nukem Forever to be released next...

A more interesting article from the site is the wearable cat ears that move to your expressions [physorg.com] . How long before all of the Cosplay girls start adopting these?

Re:New Record for Slashdot Being Current (1)

Lefty2446 (232351) | more than 3 years ago | (#36062310)

Wait for the dupe to be submitted in 2 years...

Re:New Record for Slashdot Being Current (2)

Jon Abbott (723) | more than 3 years ago | (#36063014)

I suspect this is a case of the broken clock being right twice a day. :^)

MIsleading Title (2, Insightful)

DWMorse (1816016) | more than 3 years ago | (#36062136)

Damnit, misleading title. When you say "Pillow Fight" it means something specific, and when you say "iPad Fight" my imagination cheerfully brings me a fantastic mental image.

No matter where you go (1)

countertrolling (1585477) | more than 3 years ago | (#36062214)

People are all exactly the same... Cultural differences are minuscule and not worth discussing.. An American is a Chinese is an Indian is an African...

Re:No matter where you go (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36062410)

Well, in some circumstances, people will more readily beat those who disrespect authority. That's still a metric worth thinking about.

Re:No matter where you go (1)

countertrolling (1585477) | more than 3 years ago | (#36062448)

Still not specific to any one culture... Authority is abusive by nature.

Re:No matter where you go (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36062502)

People are all exactly the same... Cultural differences are minuscule and not worth discussing..

Exactly, you get your hand cut off for stealing everywhere.

Queue Jumping in China (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36062234)

Raymond Chen once noted: "It is not a queue, it is a one dimensional mob" when on the topic of accepted normal behavior in china.

When the elevator doors open, you rush in before the people inside exit. If you do not do this you will wait FOREVER.

Re:Queue Jumping in China (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36062606)

+1 anyone who has been to Beijing and ridden on buses and trains knows that not only do the natives not queue, jostle and elbow their way in, men actively pull back women in front of them in queues and even above them on steps or staircases to get ahead.

Re:Queue Jumping in China (1)

presidenteloco (659168) | more than 3 years ago | (#36063906)

I wonder if this is just something any society would tend to with very high population density,
or is it cultural for different historical reasons.

Perhaps the concept of the "English Gentleman" has never loomed large in that society.

I know that I, having been raised in the British school of thought on these things, see
queue jumping (when it is obvious that there is a queue) as a very grave offense, meriting
a throwing down of the gauntlet, or instant destruction with my eye-mounted lasers.

I perceive that the queue jumpers are valuing themselves as greater than the sum total of the
value of all the others they have pushed back.
They are not behaving with the necessary social graces and reciprocity
necessary for sustained civilized co-operation.

Civilized co-operation (and its compromises and restraint of individual selfishness) are an extremely
high value to me, and that is why I have great contempt for those who violated it knowingly, and
great pity for those condemned to scrabble in the dirt like jackals at a kill because they violate it out of lack of social
education/inculcation.

but but (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36062364)

no flying dragons?????

A 'foreign' Apple employee? (2)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 3 years ago | (#36062408)

I wasn't aware that China was granting work visas for people to work in retail. Sounds like bullshit to me.

Re:A 'foreign' Apple employee? (1)

diakka (2281) | more than 3 years ago | (#36062486)

Yes, they apparently needed a foreign expert to teach the locals how to stand in line. Those of you who have been to China will know that standing in line is a skill that is in short supply among local Chinese.

Re:A 'foreign' Apple employee? (1)

ErikZ (55491) | more than 3 years ago | (#36063250)

Well, he's foreign now.

Re:A 'foreign' Apple employee? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36063372)

It's always the fault of foreigners. They are the only ones that cause disruption to an otherwise orderly, just, and polite society, especially when waiting in line for service.

- this public message brought to you by the government of China

consumerism at it best (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36062494)

3-2-1 go for it !!!

Among Billion People, Something Happened (2)

retroworks (652802) | more than 3 years ago | (#36062514)

This type of violence occurs at Filenes Basement at Downtown Crossing in Boston during the spring wedding dress sale, and for years the Boston Globe and Herald covered it as kind of a nod to the Filenes mystique. Then came Gang members shooting people over Nikes in LA. This is about crowd behavior, not the product, and publicity spin for the product is kind of 1990s. Move along, nothing to see here.

"Foreigners" beating up Chinese (1)

benjfowler (239527) | more than 3 years ago | (#36062560)

Proof that you don't have to be white to be an uncultured, racist asshole.

Re:"Foreigners" beating up Chinese (3, Informative)

filthpickle (1199927) | more than 3 years ago | (#36063046)

Most asian cultures would have a lot to teach white people about being racist. If you don't know this, then you don't know any asians.

Unhealthy addiction (1)

Laser Dan (707106) | more than 3 years ago | (#36062786)

This is what happens when you try to keep addicts from their fix.

People just don't line up in China, period! (4, Interesting)

BurningTyger (626316) | more than 3 years ago | (#36063302)

People just don't line up in China, period! This Apple store incident does not come as a surprise to me.

I visited Shanghai two years ago and was waiting at the subway stop. I was the first waiting in line to get into the subway car. When the subway arrived, people behind me just rushed in, instead of waiting for the passengers in the car to exit. Needless to say, I was the first in line, and ended up not getting into the subway car. And Shanghai is suppose to be the most civilized city in China!

By contrast, when I was in Taiwan the same month, I also took the subway in Taipei. Everyone lined up according to the direction. They waited politely for passengers to get off, and entered the car one by one. People also yield their seats to elders or pregnant moms.

Having people camp out at Apple Store may be a good idea in other countries, but not in China. In China, people just would not patiently wait in line. They would try to cut the line whenever they could. They would elbow you or shove you out just to advance their queue.

Re:People just don't line up in China, period! (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36063354)

That was the problem, they weren't lining up right!

Re:People just don't line up in China, period! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36063982)

So much so, that when people push and shove to the point of getting hurt, no one takes it personally. In all my times traveling in Shanghai, I have yet to see fights breakout over this behavior. Had this behavior happened with the American transit system, people might be getting shot beyond the fist-fights.

So who's more civilized? A nation with no public mannerisms, or one where it's a culture to enforce them? Tough call.

"FOBs" (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36064008)

There's tons of Chinese in Toronto, and they do that here too.

For example, in Spadina station, all the white people and other non-Chinese line-up (as instructed) for the streetcar. When it comes, all the Chinese just skip to the front of the line and push themselves in.

It's pretty infuriating. I try not to be racist, but the term "typical asians" is something you hear a lot among people here. Even second generation Chinese are annoyed by the behaviour of "FOBs", and how it reflects on them.

Why? (1)

Eggbloke (1698408) | more than 3 years ago | (#36064176)

Why do they care SO much they are willing to injure themselves for it? If I went to a store and there was a massive queue then I would probably not bother buying anything.
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