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Peugeot EX1 Sets Electric Car Lap Record At Nuerburgring

timothy posted more than 3 years ago | from the zippidee-hoo-ha dept.

Transportation 241

liqs8143 writes "Peugeot EX1, the all-electric concept car, now holds the electric car lap record at Germany's Nürburgring circuit. The car was unveiled at the 2010 Paris Motor Show, and has already broken half a dozen speed records up till now. Despite wet weather, the EX1 broke the existing record with a time of 9 minutes, 1.338 seconds, beating the previous record set by a modified MINI E electric car by almost 50 seconds. The 340 horsepower EX1 averaged an impressive 85.9 miles per hour during the lap."

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Eat my balls (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36065124)

Suck my four inch cock, you niggers.

Metric? (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36065134)

German circuit and a French car. Can we get the speed in a civilized km/h?

Re:Metric? (2)

alexandre_ganso (1227152) | more than 3 years ago | (#36066038)

Why is this modded negative? Disagreeing is not reason for modding. The guy has a point.

And slashdout could realize they america is not the universe. Not even the center of it.

Re:Metric? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36066184)

That car suck. 85.9 miles per hour is not enough to fire the flux capacitor...

Charge time. (1)

dadelbunts (1727498) | more than 3 years ago | (#36065140)

I wonder how many laps it got in before it had to be charged.

Re:Charge time. (5, Interesting)

jo_ham (604554) | more than 3 years ago | (#36065210)

Oh I don't know, but it's hardly a negative - how many laps can a petrol engined vehicle that does 10 mpg before you have to refill it?

At full tilt, a Merc SLR can drain its tank in about 20 minutes, as shown by Top Gear during one of their challenges, and funnily enough they then *didn't* show the production team pushing it towards a garage by hand with a "oh dear, just look what happened" voice over, unlike their "unbiased" footage of them pushing the Tesla Roadster back into the garage by hand after testing it on the track, even though the computer logs in the car showed that it never went below 10-15% charge and would have been able to easily drive under its own power back to a charge point.

Sure, it will still take longer to recharge an electric vehicle right now compared to refilling a tank of combustible hydrocarbons, but a high-capacity power feed and improving charge systems will narrow that down all the time.

Re:Charge time. (2)

phantomcircuit (938963) | more than 3 years ago | (#36065276)

You can fill up the gas tank in about a minute. You cant really do that with a battery pack.

Why Not? (3, Interesting)

pavon (30274) | more than 3 years ago | (#36065338)

If we are talking race cars here, then there is no reason they couldn't design the battery pack to be swapped out as quickly as they change tires. Pretty much everything on a race car is custom designed for fast pit-stops.

That isn't the best approach for consumer cars for many reasons. But it also isn't a problem for consumer cars if they hold a full day's travel with margin. Given the driving patterns of people, current electric car technology could already replace more than half the sedans on the road today.

Re:Why Not? (1)

dadelbunts (1727498) | more than 3 years ago | (#36065406)

But what do sedans have to do with ring times?

Re:Why Not? (1)

Luckyo (1726890) | more than 3 years ago | (#36065696)

Nothing. What does actually charging a battery pack on a race car instead of simply swapping in a fully charged one do with sedans?

Re:Why Not? (2)

pavon (30274) | more than 3 years ago | (#36065708)

They don't. That's the point. You wouldn't compare a stock sedan to race cars, so why compare consumer electric cars to race cars. If you were designing an electric race car for a long range race you would give it swappable batteries. If you are designing a consumer car you can ignore criteria that are important for racing but not consumer cars (like fast charge time).

Until we have the technology to make a viable electric sports car they should be left to what they do best, econobox grocery getter.

The needs of a sports car aren't even close to that of a race car. Sports cars are just used as commuter cars by people that want something that looks cool and is fun to drive. Electric cars can easily meet the driving demands of that market given their high torque.

Re:Why Not? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36066434)

People who don't understand the importance of the research that goes into race cars and the impact it had, the impact is has and the impact it will have on production cars should do some readings.

Competition is good for the consumer and having car companies fight on the Nurburgring is *the* ultimate form of competition. This drives technology in ways you can't even realize.

Just one example: perforated disk brakes where found "by chance" by Porsche (?) when trying to lower the weight of their race cars. They then noticed the cooling of the disk was also faster. This technology is common in a lot of "regular" cars nowadays.

There are hundreds of example like this in the car industry.

Whatever gain is made regarding ring times impacts in one way or another joe six-pack's family sedan.

Re:Charge time. (1)

Noughmad (1044096) | more than 3 years ago | (#36065404)

You can swap the battery pack in a minute

There was quite some talk about cars with swappable batteries, where did all that go anyway?

Re:Charge time. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36065444)

It didn't go away, launching this year in Israel and Denmark, and after that, hopefully elsewhere.

Re:Charge time. (1)

Joce640k (829181) | more than 3 years ago | (#36066356)

You can fill up the gas tank in about a minute. You cant really do that with a battery pack.

For a race car you could use ultracapacitors instead of batteries. How much current can your charge cable handle...?

Re:Charge time. (2)

flibbajobber (949499) | more than 3 years ago | (#36066730)

For a race car you could use ultracapacitors instead of batteries. How much current can your charge cable handle...?

Not realistic with current capacitor tech. At best, caps can currently store about 1/5th of the capacity of a battery of similar mass. The best production ultracaps are around 30Wh/kg, whereas LiPo batteries are well over 100Wh/kg, and can exceed 200Wh/kg for certain variants.

Re:Charge time. (1)

Joce640k (829181) | more than 3 years ago | (#36066868)

Can you use LiPo batteries in cars? I thought they exploded if you rupture them.

Re:Charge time. (1, Insightful)

dadelbunts (1727498) | more than 3 years ago | (#36065322)

The problem is for a gasoline car you can do 4 tires and fuel in under 20 seconds. Just gassing a car even in a non pit setting takes what, 3-4 minutes max? How long does it take to charge a battery on these cars. Of course it is a negative because RIGHT NOW they charge slower than molasses. Charge time of future systems is meaningless as we are not talking about them. "Sport" electric cars are nothing but smoked glass and mirrors. Until we have the technology to make a viable electric sports car they should be left to what they do best, econobox grocery getter. Which is nothing to be ashamed of.

Re:Charge time. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36065608)

The problem is for a gasoline car you can do 4 tires and fuel in under 20 seconds. Just gassing a car even in a non pit setting takes what, 3-4 minutes max? How long does it take to charge a battery on these cars. Of course it is a negative because RIGHT NOW they charge slower than molasses. Charge time of future systems is meaningless as we are not talking about them. "Sport" electric cars are nothing but smoked glass and mirrors. Until we have the technology to make a viable electric sports car they should be left to what they do best, econobox grocery getter. Which is nothing to be ashamed of.

For actual racing, swapping the battery pack has potential to be not only faster, but also a lot safer than refuelling. The battery holder could even be a tube, push in new battery from one side of the car, forcing the old battery out from the other side. Machine-assisted at pit, that could be done in about a second, *click*whomp*clack*, counting the time to attach and remove the battery injector. I could even see that happening without the car actually stopping, with a moving rig, when tires aren't in need of changing.

Re:Charge time. (5, Informative)

$pace6host (865145) | more than 3 years ago | (#36065620)

Better Place says they've had their battery swap system do changes in under 40 seconds [wired.com] . The video on their site shows it happening in just over 1 minute [betterplace.com] . Not bad for the first gen (wow, that robot moves slow), but they're stuck in that place where they have the idea, and have invested in the technology, but need to get all the players on board or they'll get nowhere. Unless car manufacturers get on board, it won't matter how many swap stations they build. Unless they have swap stations, no car manufacturers want to join. Right now, they've opened one in Israel [thetruthaboutcars.com] , but only some demo vehicles can use it so far, since the Renault Fluence Z.E that is supposed to be the flagship battery swap electric vehicle isn't on sale yet (or wasn't in March when that was written). It will be interesting to see what happens. I like the idea of charging my car's battery at home most of the time, but having the option to swap it at a road-side station if I want to go on a long trip. We're a lot of infrastructure away from that day, though.

Re:Charge time. (1)

Kjella (173770) | more than 3 years ago | (#36066452)

That seems like a tricky solution for consumers, what happens when you take your brand new EV for a battery change and you get the oldest battery in their rotation? My guess is your range goes way down and the risk it'll go defective way up. You could of course make all batteries the manufacturer's responsibility, but then you'd probably pay a high yearly fee for replacements.

Re:Charge time. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36066608)

Renault is using/proposing a battery leasing scheme to make this work.

Re:Charge time. (1)

houghi (78078) | more than 3 years ago | (#36066536)

What they could do is place swap stations where tank stations are. First the cities. Then the places around the cities for commuters. Then further away.

Not sure if this will give the car another 100+ years as gasoline is running out, or if we will be forced to look to travel less and be closer to where we work, without forgetting the ability to have free time.

Re:Charge time. (2)

vlm (69642) | more than 3 years ago | (#36065622)

The problem is for a gasoline car you can do 4 tires and fuel in under 20 seconds. Just gassing a car even in a non pit setting takes what, 3-4 minutes max? How long does it take to charge a battery on these cars.

I'm not seeing a problem here. The whole point of organized hyper-promoted racing is to provide a list of weird rules for the racers to follow. Restriction plates in the carburetors (ancient carbs? Well, throttle bodies anyway), total fuel burned limitations per race, strange rules about weight and dimensions, etc.

Simply add a couple more rules.

Furthermore you can dump electricity into lithium cells VERY quickly if you want, its just that you may only get 5 charges out of them, and they may possibly explode while charging. Both scenarios are fully compatible with hyper-promoted mass marketed "entertainment"

Until we have the technology to make a viable electric sports car they should be left to what they do best, econobox grocery getter. Which is nothing to be ashamed of.

It is possible electric racing may never be popular beyond drag racing / sprint cars / exotic stuff. For example, no one wants to race SUVs or pickup trucks, that would be about as fast paced and exciting as watching hippos mating, but that doesn't seem to have impacted their sales...

Re:Charge time. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36065908)

Gassing up a car usually takes most people far more than 4 minutes if you look at the total time involved. Many commuters may have to make some sort of detour to get gas and get back on course, wait in lines to fill up and deal with making payment. Some even drive an additional distance in hopes of finding a lower price.

The sports car thing has its limitations of course, but realistic electric cars will lean towards smaller sleeker lighter designs anyway. And if they can dump/recover charge rapidly enough, some of the energy spent with acceleration bursts may actually be recovered later during dynamic braking (motor as generator). Stop and go, uphill and downhill, and other varied driving may actually impose a bigger efficiency penalty on gasoline powered vehicles.

It's too bad were not set up to dock small cars on fast rail carriers for the intermediate part of longer trips.

Re:Charge time. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36065496)

You should watch the trip through France, where Jeremy's GT40 is constantly being ridiculed for stopping at petrol stations at rather short intervals.
The loving does go both ways, no doubt about it.

Re:Charge time. (1)

Brett Buck (811747) | more than 3 years ago | (#36065500)

Oh I don't know, but it's hardly a negative - how many laps can a petrol engined vehicle that does 10 mpg before you have to refill it?

          Around 20, which is probably longer than the tires would last (at least with good traction).

Re:Charge time. (2)

Arlet (29997) | more than 3 years ago | (#36065668)

You don't have to push the Mercedes to the garage, but you can carry a can of fuel back to the car.

Re:Charge time. (2)

jo_ham (604554) | more than 3 years ago | (#36065986)

Just like you can roll out an extension cable if you're in a track setup and have the pit/workshop buildings nearby, or bring out a high-capacity charge unit - essentially a big battery on wheels with an inverter on it to juice the car enough to be able to drive it to a filling station.

Re:Charge time. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36065962)

" but a high-capacity power feed and improving charge systems will narrow that down all the time."

1) You have NO idea when battery technology will get better. It could take decades before a battery
can provide both reasonable range and the ability to recharge quickly.

2) The power feed is not the problem.

Your post was a meaningless comparison followed by comments which are vague speculation of the sort
one normally finds a small child making. I suppose there is the chance that you are a small child, though.

Re:Charge time. (1)

jo_ham (604554) | more than 3 years ago | (#36066388)

I at a university working alongside people who work in this field all the time - batteries, fuel cells, hydrogen storage techniques, improved motor efficiency, increased energy densities etc.

I guess I could just be totally guessing in the dark though. In fact, I'll bet you're right!

I also follow several chemistry journals, although my interest area is transition metals rather than the sort of physical chem going on with batteries and so on, but it is amusing that your only course for "refuting" my argument is to allude to me being a small child, and not even from the pseudo-anonymous position of someone with a user account.

Anonymous Coward: the refuge of those who don't have a strong enough argument to actually put any weight behind it. It could also be that you're too scared to actually appear stupid on your user account. Shame, we'll never know eh?

Re:Charge time. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36066600)

About 3 or so.

The more important thing is that the extra weight needed to increase range scales much slower for gas cars than electric. So, that SLR can be made to do 6 laps easily, where it would be difficult to double the range of an electric vehicle.

At the same time, if you look at cars that have lap times in the 9 min range, they aren't the totally fuel guzzling ultra-high performance super cars. In other words, for performance, this ultra high tech electric concept car is worse than many, many production gas vehicles.

So, while interesting, and potentially valuable research, it also shows how far pure electrics have to go before they anywhere near competitive with gasoline vehicles.

Re:Charge time. (1)

mdarksbane (587589) | more than 3 years ago | (#36067732)

Let's just say it's really, *really* important if you're buying an electric car to use as a normal sports car - that is, to drive it around like a normal car six days out of the week, and thrash it at a track day on the seventh. I don't have a fancy pit crew or a mechanic who can swap out my gear box in five minutes, but I *can* fill my gas tank back up in a couple minutes and drive home from the track.

So it was a little important when road-testing a Tesla, whose entire point is to be an electric sports car.

Re:Charge time. (2)

rubycodez (864176) | more than 3 years ago | (#36065478)

no recharge needed, but after three laps the long extension cord pulled out of outlet

85.9? (0)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 3 years ago | (#36065174)

I'm inclined to wonder if the track is either particularly long, or particularly tortuous, or the constraints imposed by the rules especially arduous. While getting good range out of electric vehicles turns out to be a nasty piece of work, electric motors are practically god's gift to short-range high-speed work. Electric motors achieve their highest torque at stall, so you acceleration is limited mostly by your tires or the desire to not melt any power busses. Such motors can also be used for braking, again limited largely by your tires or desire not to melt anything.

Unless the track is particularly hairy, where the increased mass of a battery pack on wheels would be an issue, or the rules substantially constrain the mass of batteries carried, I would expect electrics to utterly terminate internal combustion units in closed course exercises where cost is a very limited object and endurance measured in minutes isn't a big deal.

Re:85.9? (5, Informative)

jimicus (737525) | more than 3 years ago | (#36065222)

You've never heard of the Nürburgring, have you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N [wikipedia.org] ürburgring

"...is widely considered the toughest, most dangerous, and most demanding purpose-built racing circuit in the world."

Re:85.9? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36065254)

Hahaha, you fucking fail it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N%C3%BCrburgring [wikipedia.org]

Eat that you insufferable faggot.

Re:85.9? (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36065390)

He's American. They like driving around in ovals.
Good turning on a car? What's that? Just put a big engine in it.

Re:85.9? (3, Informative)

Anubis IV (1279820) | more than 3 years ago | (#36066626)

Hey, some of us Americans, even ones like me who grew up in the South, have both heard of the Nürburgring and would prefer watching cars zip around it rather than on a NASCAR track any day. I can't stand NASCAR (*pauses for a moment to listen for approaching angry mobs*), and I'm not particularly enamored with racing in general, but even with my limited awareness of the world of racing, I've still heard of the Nürburgring, have seen the track layout, and know its reputation.

I know the world likes to paint Americans in stereotypes, and we definitely do have plenty of people here that fit some of them quite well, but dismissing us (or most any other group, for that matter) as a mere stereotype is almost always a mistake.

Re:85.9? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36065438)

I have heard of Nuremberg! That's where they tried all those Nazis! But what I haven't heard of is this Paris Muppet Show! WTF?!? Is it Jim Hensen's puppets speaking French?!? Miss Piggy actually speaking proper French?!

Are we dealing with Nazi Muppets?

WTF did I do with my reading glasses ....

Re:85.9? (1)

MM-tng (585125) | more than 3 years ago | (#36065536)

I have been there. It is totally awsome :). My boss had an old Manta I could borrow from him. I had a reeaaally good time. To bad all the motor cycles crash all the time. We had 6 crashed bikes in one day. Track closed guys sweeping sand over the oil spill. Guys limping with plastic parts along the track. It"s crazy

Re:85.9? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36067104)

Hey! Give this guy a break. He's probably American and he doesn't even know that French actually make cars. Some of them even think a car needs to have at least a V8 (and some of them would think V8 is some juice brand).

Re:85.9? (1)

hb253 (764272) | more than 3 years ago | (#36067628)

To be honest, the French make barely adequate cars, sort of like the Italians. Not that GM is anything special, but they are finally beginning to improve.

People like powerful V8's for the same reason they love powerful V6's or 4's, or Wankel's. I am partial to my flat 6.

Re:85.9? (1)

Zakabog (603757) | more than 3 years ago | (#36065230)

Particularly long? I think it's 12 miles, lots of sharp turns, some good high speed straights. Electric cars are limited by the low top speeds, and I'm sure the extra weight from the batteries doesn't help either.

Re:85.9? (1)

MROD (101561) | more than 3 years ago | (#36065238)

You may find the Wikipedia page on the Nurburgring useful: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N%C3%BCrburgring [wikipedia.org] You're obviously not a great follower of international motor sport or the sport's history. (And have obviously not played Gran Tourismo 5 on the PS3 :-))

Re:85.9? (1)

DWMorse (1816016) | more than 3 years ago | (#36065784)

Given the last 2 weeks of Sony's fiasco, I hope people are smart enough to avoid the PS3! =P

Re:85.9? (3, Informative)

MoonBuggy (611105) | more than 3 years ago | (#36065262)

"Particularly hairy" is a fairly apt description of the Nürburgring, actually, and I believe these figures are from realistic production models rather than something designed purely for ten minutes on the track. Sure, it's mainly marketing, but they are making a more-or-less fair comparison between the EV and its internal combustion counterpart - if they were just chasing impressive figures they could take any old piece of crap, give it far more batteries than it's rated for, and show off the straight line speed [youtube.com] .

It's both long and arduous (5, Informative)

Mr Thinly Sliced (73041) | more than 3 years ago | (#36065266)

The lap time should have given it away - 9 minutes!

The nurburgring remains as an example of the old school racing circuits from the previous century - long and dangerous.

They've built a more modern circuit around the pits, but the old long configuration (nordschliefe) is still used for endurance events with various vehicles (GT cars, motorcycles etc)

Have a look at the track map here [the-fastlane.co.uk]

They stopped running F1 there due to safety concerns (no run-off and thin track).

On topic of this EV, I have to say it's closer to a motorcycle than a car...

Re:85.9? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36065278)

Power to weight is still not in electric's favour over anything but the very shortest tasks. The Nurburgring is also a pretty long course, almost 21 km with 154 turns.

Re:85.9? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36065328)

Um, it's the Nurburgring Nordschleife.........

20.8km of the most grueling racing track in the world. The lap time of this car was faster than a VW Lupo GTi set in 2009 which I think is pretty good. It is right on the tailpipe of a Range Rover Sport!

The Radical SR8 LM that holds the producation car record on the lap falls short of 120mph around this track.

Re:85.9? (3, Funny)

Ceriel Nosforit (682174) | more than 3 years ago | (#36065506)

And, faster than a van driven by a certain woman.

Re:85.9? (2)

nojayuk (567177) | more than 3 years ago | (#36066948)

The most gruelling racing track in the world is probably the Mountain Course in the Isle of Man, sixty miles of road up and down the side of a mountain and then passing through a series of villages and over hump-back bridges. It's a rare year that doesn't end in at least one fatality during the motorbike Time Trial (TT) races in June or the Manx GP in the autumn -- in 2010 four riders died.

There's now a race for electric motorbikes included in the TT series, and a $10,000 prize for the first bike to achieve a 100mph lap. Last year the winning bike managed 96mph and might have broken the 100mph barrier if the rider hadn't been over-conservative regarding the bike's batteries and their capacity.

Re:85.9? (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36065374)

For all the billions of people outside Burma, Liberia and the Greatest Country that is still stuck in the 19th century, 85.9 mph translate to 138 km/h.

Re:85.9? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36065564)

I'm inclined to wonder if the track is either particularly long,...

...with a time of 9 minutes and 1.338 seconds, [...] averaged an impressive 85.9 miles per hour...

Oh come on. I thought basic maths was a prerequisite for Slashdotters.

Re:85.9? (1)

Velex (120469) | more than 3 years ago | (#36066208)

Go play Gran Turismo 4. That should answer all of your questions.

Re:85.9? (1)

Attila Dimedici (1036002) | more than 3 years ago | (#36066554)

Jeremy Clarkson of the BBC show Top Gear was ecstatic to get around the Nurburgring track in 10 minutes in a diesel Jaguar. So, I would say that, yes it is a particularly tortuous track.

Nordschleife presumably (1)

mazesc (1922428) | more than 3 years ago | (#36065248)

I guess the article refers to the Nordschleife layout? 9 minutes would be awful around the GP layout, but it would be great around the combined layout ... (Nürburgring [wikipedia.org] )

As the article is only shiny pictures and almost no information it is hard to tell.

Re:Nordschleife presumably (1)

Brett Buck (811747) | more than 3 years ago | (#36067222)

You can see a picture of the car on the carousel section from the Nordschleife

85 MPH ?? INDY 19118 BEAT THAT !! (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36065332)

Go back 100 years and you are on to something there !! Way to go FRANCE !! Now go surrender or whatever you normally do at step 2 !!

Re:85 MPH ?? INDY 19118 BEAT THAT !! (1)

Gordonjcp (186804) | more than 3 years ago | (#36066884)

Indy Car racing is just heavy cars going at normal road speeds around an oval track. Have you had a look at the Nurburgring?

ATTENTION SLASHDOT JANITORS: FIX YOUR BROKEN WEBSITE. Non-ASCII characters used to work, now they don't. You have a regression. Fix it.

A version for Americans (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36065344)

Hey... I'm an American. Do they have a version of this track that's just a straight line with no curves?

9 min not very impressive .. (2)

deischi (133747) | more than 3 years ago | (#36065372)

.. compared to the results of some production vehicles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N%C3%BCrburgring_lap_times) but the car sure looks fabulous, and they probably can do faster with better weather.

Re:9 min not very impressive .. (2)

tsa (15680) | more than 3 years ago | (#36065396)

We are not talking about production vehicles here. 9 minutes is impressive for an electric car.

Re:9 min not very impressive .. (1)

Spacelord (27899) | more than 3 years ago | (#36065818)

Those were exactly my thoughts. 9 minutes for a 340bhp car? That seems terribly slow. Even my 15 year old E36 M3 GT (295bhp) does better than that.

My guess is that the weight of the batteries is holding it back. This shows one of the biggest drawbacks of electrical cars: batteries make them way too heavy, so unless battery capacity increases drastically, the handling is going to be poor.

For what it's worth: the energy density of a battery is about 20 times less than that of gasoline. Now an electrical engine does make up for some of that because it runs more efficient than a combustion engine, but not 20 times more efficient.

Re:9 min not very impressive .. (0)

dave420 (699308) | more than 3 years ago | (#36067646)

Sorry, are you making a guess as to the efficiency of the design of this car based on it's performance by one driver on one course on one day? Surely not. I had you pegged for a rational person.

Exact one (1)

mycorner99 (2127778) | more than 3 years ago | (#36065398)

Its having exact length not particularly long.

F1 championship (1)

tsa (15680) | more than 3 years ago | (#36065410)

I wonder when a Formula 1 championship will be organized for electric cars only. I hope very soon - that will get the technology development going much faster.

Re:F1 championship (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36065530)

F1? I'd be glad to see any electric vehicle racing, even as just an exhibition on one of those guess the time shows.

Re:F1 championship (1)

HornWumpus (783565) | more than 3 years ago | (#36065616)

What's stopping you. You will need to pick a new name or Bernie will be cross.

Formula 1 is partly electric (2)

mangu (126918) | more than 3 years ago | (#36065776)

Formula 1 had KERS (kinectic energy recovery system) as an option in 2009 and a required feature in all 2011 cars. This is, essentially, a regenerative braking system. It charges a battery during braking and gets an 80 HP boost from an electric motor during acceleration.

Re:F1 championship (1)

hb253 (764272) | more than 3 years ago | (#36067652)

That should be a hoot, cars going slower each lap with only the sound of scrubbing tires. When do tickets on sale? I'll be sure not to buy them.

Part of the glory of racing is the mechanical symphony of combustion engines..

And I thought EVs were about getting rid of oil... (1)

SpaceCracker (939922) | more than 3 years ago | (#36065456)

Wasn't the EV trend supposed to help us reduce emissions and loosen our dependence on expensive oil?
Who cares about EVs in race tracks. That's the place to hear engines roaring and smell rubber burning...

Re:And I thought EVs were about getting rid of oil (2)

bagorange (1531625) | more than 3 years ago | (#36065528)

This kind of exercise isn't only done for the research, it's also done to get the attention of those whose response to electric cars is:

"Electric Cars are for teh Faggz."

These tactics work, fast car marketing is aimed at men thinking with their testes.

Re:And I thought EVs were about getting rid of oil (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36066612)

"Electric Cars are for teh Faggz."

Actually, you might be onto something there, but you need to include
eco-poseurs who have short commutes in the group of clueless early
adopters as well.

Re:And I thought EVs were about getting rid of oil (1)

Spacelord (27899) | more than 3 years ago | (#36066668)

It's still for "faggz" though. 9 minutes around the Nordschleife with a custom made 340bhp car?
Wake me up when they can do a sub 8 minute time. There are combustion engined cars with the aerodynamics of a brick that can do that.

Not FWD? (1)

Aranykai (1053846) | more than 3 years ago | (#36065462)

Very impressive feat. I'm just amazed its no FWD, being a Peugeot and all.

Need cheaper iron phosphates (2)

BlueParrot (965239) | more than 3 years ago | (#36065576)

As I understand it the Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries pretty much solve the major issues with EV cars.They're fast charging ( 10 min or so ) , long lifespan ( 10+ years ), can output a tremendous amount of power, and have a wide operating temperature range. The issue at the moment seems to be that the price is too steep for them to be economically used in cars.

Anybody know more than wikipedia on what is being done to get them down in price? It seems to me that if those can be made more cheaply then you've basically cracked the entire problem with EV cars.

Re:Need cheaper iron phosphates (1)

GrahamCox (741991) | more than 3 years ago | (#36067072)

The only thing that will get them down in price is more volume. It's starting to happen, but it's still at the very start of the ramp. There's only been one commercial manufacturer until recently - the fact there are now two is a great sign. Costs are no longer ridiculous - I'm seeing around $2 per kWh at present, which is half what it was only a year ago. When it's down to $1 I think that could well be the tipping-point, due to the psychology of nice round numbers. $2 is still "economically viable" though, if you do the maths.

LiFePO4 has actually a slightly lower energy-density (78kWh/kg) than other lithium chemistries, but it's worth it for the much greater safety and other benefits you mentioned. I'm not sure about 10 minute charge times though, that seems optimistic. Most data sheets I've seen suggest charging at 0.5C, which translates into two hours in most cases.

Re:Need cheaper iron phosphates (1)

GrahamCox (741991) | more than 3 years ago | (#36067108)

Of course I mean 78 Wh/kg, not kWh - that would be a remarkable breakthrough!

Re:Need cheaper iron phosphates (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36067386)

batteries don't have to be able to output lots of power. That's where supercapacitors come in.

Rarely, if ever, you want to go WOT for more than 15 seconds or so, in normal circumstances (go round a lap, see exactly what percentage of the lap you are full throttle)

Re:Need cheaper iron phosphates (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36067614)

I purchase a 48v 20AH LiFePO4 pack years ago for about $500. It was Chinese made and if they continue production, the price will surely go down. There are not perfect. Like Lithium Nanos, they require a BMS while the more practical Lithium Manganese (Sony Konion) cells do not. The burst power is not that good either. I can burst 2 maybe 3C from my pack which is 40-60 AMPS. This is plenty enough for my application but if we are talking about high power motorsports, Peugeot should look into A123 (Lithium Nanos).

Check out the White Zombie and Killacycle for some demos of a legitimate 90C battery pack. watch?v=akximCGuLm8

crazy (1)

idji (984038) | more than 3 years ago | (#36065606)

350 hp=253kW=the energy produced by 1,265 humans sprinting!!!! When are we humans gonna wake up and realize that spending 350 hp to move a human from point A & B is simply irresponsible to the world and future generations, who will curse us for wasting the world's energy resources.

Re:crazy (1)

Dilligent (1616247) | more than 3 years ago | (#36065860)

so what... its an electric engine, thereby you can run it at much lower power outputs and in contrast to an ICE it still runs at near-perfect efficiency...

Re:crazy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36066126)

But you also move *way* faster than a human.
And since the cost for speed goes up exponentially, it's understandable again.
Meaning: You can't just add up those 1265 humans and say that's how fast it should go.

Also, human movement is not very efficient.

Anyway... It's not like we are short of sunlight anytime in the non-interstellar-space-travel future. If we really need more than we can put solar collectors in deserts (comparison: 400x400km of solar-thermal power plants is all humanity uses right now), we can use satellites. And if we really manage to need every single photon coming from the sun, we will have long gone to other stars.

Re:crazy (1)

alendit (1454311) | more than 3 years ago | (#36066640)

While may be a valid point about resource waste, kW (or hp) are not the right unit of measurement for energy (PROTIP: Joule is).

Besides, it's hard to compare the energy used by electromotors and humans, because a human can't live neither from nuclear energy, nor from coal. Since electrical motors can have incredibly high efficiency, its doesn't HAVE to be a waste to have powerful electrical cars.

Re:crazy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36066676)

Eh, if the energy comes from somewhere sensible, it really doesn't matter.
Oh, and it's not like you run a car engine flat-out all the time - if you drive carefully, the actual average energy usage over a normal journey is going to be way lower.

Re:crazy (1)

Spacelord (27899) | more than 3 years ago | (#36066742)

So I guess we should all drive golf carts then?

Re:crazy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36066892)

I guess that the point raised is that the problem is not the technology, but what lazy people we became expect from it.

Re:crazy (1)

gTsiros (205624) | more than 3 years ago | (#36067420)

There are motorcycles, mopeds and small engine motorcycles, not to mention public transit.

think about something else rather than your convenience for a change.

i read sometime/someplace about some dude (paraphrasing) "i will not give up one comfort that i have left, therefore i will go o doing 100miles each working day to and fro work".

comfort. that's what he was after. no, we are not here to "live comfortably". we are here to give effort and make this god forsaken place at least livable.

Re:crazy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36067728)

Or maybe propel yourself under your own damn power. Heard of a bicycle?

Sure, it's fast... (1)

Jawnn (445279) | more than 3 years ago | (#36065662)

...but it's, well, you know... French.

Re:Sure, it's fast... (1)

xMrFishx (1956084) | more than 3 years ago | (#36065898)

Surely better for fleeing in then...until it goes flat.

88 mph (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36065742)

If my calculations are correct... when this sucker averages 88 mph, you're going to see some serious shit!

Not for rent (0)

Haxx (314221) | more than 3 years ago | (#36067000)

  In many rental situations, if you rent an apartment , electric cars aren't an option.

Re:Not for rent (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36067722)

I love broad, sweeping comments like this one. "Many" in what context? My sister rents an apartment in Los Angeles, and the 4 units share a driveway with a 3-car garage out back. No one pays for electricity. I would love to surprise her with an EV conversion or even one of those Neighborhood Electric Vehicles to take to The Grove or the Farmers Market. So yeah, if you think all apartments come in tall buildings on Central Park West, sure EVs may seem inappropriate. Luckily, some of us get out and know that's not always the case.

It could probably be even faster (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36067120)

If it weren't saddled with those ridiculous doors, it would probably be even faster. I would imagine that the dropping the door sill height to accommodate the seats swinging out compromises their ability to stiffen the car at the sides, never mind the necessity of beefing up the "door" hinges to support the driver's weight.

Of course we have to give them credit for making a concept car that doesn't merely run, but goes like hell. Still, I'd like to see what they can do with a more conventional car.

huh? (1, Interesting)

kharchenko (303729) | more than 3 years ago | (#36067238)

Wow, that's really slow! 9 minutes is barely beating Ford Focus. For comparison, Mini Cooper S does it in 8:52 [wikipedia.org] . I thought electric cars can be just as fast. What gives?

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