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In Indonesia, a Winner For Now In the Browser Wars

timothy posted more than 3 years ago | from the no-longer-beginner's-luck dept.

Firefox 76

angry tapir writes "Mozilla is building an army of volunteers in Indonesia to help customize Firefox and recommend add-ons. Mozilla wants that input so it can retain the high market share that Firefox already has in the country. Web statistics company StatCounter puts the share at 75 to 80 percent, the browser's highest in Asia. The worldwide share of Firefox, which competes with Internet Explorer and Google Chrome, is just over 30 percent."

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I live in Indonesia... (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36069850)

I live in Indonesia and has been using their browsers for several years now. I first used their Netscape 7 several years ago, because at that time Internet Explorer 6 (running under Windows 98 SE) was a real resource hog, eating up SYSTEM and USER resources. I also liked its pop-up blocker. Now I am happily using Firefox 4.0, primarily because it has AdBlock Plus (note that bandwidth is expensive in Indonesia), it still supports Windows XP SP3, and it is, in my opinion, faster than Internet Explorer 8 (with my computer full of ActiveX components installed by legitimate programs).

Re:I live in Indonesia... (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36070098)

I live in Indonesia and has been using their browsers for several years now. I first used their Netscape 7 several years ago, because at that time Internet Explorer 6 (running under Windows 98 SE) was a real resource hog, eating up SYSTEM and USER resources. I also liked its pop-up blocker. Now I am happily using Firefox 4.0, primarily because it has AdBlock Plus (note that bandwidth is expensive in Indonesia), it still supports Windows XP SP3, and it is, in my opinion, faster than Internet Explorer 8 (with my computer full of ActiveX components installed by legitimate programs).

To keep your bandwidth usage low, you want Opera Turbo.

Re:I live in Indonesia... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36070280)

Just so you know: Firefox is also leading here in Germany.
We here ridicule everyone who still whines about "all the annoying ads":
"Dude, just get AdBlock Plus" ... "Whaddaya mean you don't use Firefox?? How can you even stand that?"

But of course, the real pros have already moved on, since Firefox more and more falls for the cycle of catering to the loudest and dumbest users, replacing efficiency by simplicity (in a move of oversimplifying efficiency), making it useless for anyone *but* the dumbest, and creating new, even dumber users in the process. (Otherwise known as the "Clippy-effect".) ;)

Re:I live in Indonesia... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36070304)

But of course, the real pros have already moved on

Please, do tell where they have moved to...

Re:I live in Indonesia... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36070720)

Lynx. The answer to any browser-related question is always Lynx. Every seasoned /.er knows that.

Re:I live in Indonesia... (1)

Oziriz (1431585) | more than 3 years ago | (#36071110)

Lynx. The answer to any browser-related question is always Lynx. Every seasoned /.er knows that.

So, then, which browser is the worst of all?

Re:I live in Indonesia... (1)

tehcyder (746570) | more than 3 years ago | (#36080110)

Lynx. The answer to any browser-related question is always Lynx. Every seasoned /.er knows that.

So, then, which browser is the worst of all?

Netscape 4 still haunts my nightmares.

Re:I live in Indonesia... (2)

Bitsy Boffin (110334) | more than 3 years ago | (#36071644)

Amateur. Real men just telnet into port 80.

Re:I live in Indonesia... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36071934)

*Real* men *telnet* to port 443.

Re:I live in Indonesia... (1)

Simon80 (874052) | more than 3 years ago | (#36072766)

That's real robots to you! I didn't spent 10 years learning SSL and TLS in robot school so I could be called Mr., thank you very much!

Re:I live in Indonesia... (1)

hairyfeet (841228) | more than 3 years ago | (#36071274)

Well if they are on a modern version of Windows like Vista or 7 then they have most likely moved to one of the Chromium based, since they support low rights mode which helps to stop those zero day Adobe bugs, along with sandboxing. Some like Chrome but personally I prefer Comodo Dragon [comodo.com] as it doesn't phone home like Chrome and has some nice extras like domain validation and the option to use the Comodo secure DNS. You can also get Adblock Plus [google.com] for it and the other Chromium based now, along with forecastfox which my customers just love.

It also seems to handle the heavier sites like FB faster than FF 4, which while I don't care about that my customers sure do. What I DO care about is the fact that I have to support everything from nettops and older office boxes to the latest multicore PCs and FF 4 frankly slams the hell out of the CPU and leaks memory, which is especially noticeable on the older and/or low powered machines.

So while I'm glad that something other than IE is winning somewhere for me and my users until FF fixes the bugs and supports the latest security tech I'm afraid I'll have to go with the Chromium based browsers. The speed and responsiveness, especially with those customers that practically live in their browsers, have made the switch a pretty easy sell. If FF 4 works for you I'm happy for you, on the multicores I don't have any problems with it either, but there is a whole world full of well functioning single core machines that the Chromium based just work better on IMHO, and only having to support one browser is easier on me.

Re:I live in Indonesia... (1)

Panoptes (1041206) | more than 3 years ago | (#36071392)

When Indonesia went into financial and social meltdown back in 1998 the Indonesian Chinese community was singled out - as ever - for horrendous attacks. Many fled to Malaysia and Singapore. They never returned. This exodus included a large number of highly qualified and very talented people, many of whom were IT managers in big companies and key organizations. This flight, coupled with Indonesia Telkom's virtual monopoly of Internet access and a chronic lack of infrastructure investment, left the country in an IT stone age from which it's slowly emerging. Prices are high, service is poor, breakdowns are frequent - and even in Jakarta many areas don't access to cable broadband.

Re:I live in Indonesia... (1)

arief.utama (1689566) | more than 3 years ago | (#36080372)

Prices are high, service is poor, breakdowns are frequent - and even in Jakarta many areas don't access to cable broadband.

Not quite right.

Jakarta (and many other big cities) are well covered by good broadband services now. Ofcourse different story for suburban or rural areas which is actually a chance for great businesses as what Cellular providers have prove with their mobile broadband offering.

Prices are high if compared to other countries (like I notice Malaysia can get 10Mb FO broadband for the same price as Indonesia's 2Mb ADSL), but for within Indonesia, it has improved a lot in these 5 years, 1Mb ADSL has been quite affordable for many households. Competitions are healthily rising.

While accesses that require heavy bandwidth is still not accessible to lower-income citizens, almost everyone here can do tweets and fb updates just fine and cheaply with their mobile phones.

Looking at what's currently happening in Indonesia, the country surely has many opportunities and potentials.

The IE Fate (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36070818)

IE has one and only ultimate mission for freshly-bought Win 7: to download Firefox.

Re:The IE Fate (1)

CyberDragon777 (1573387) | more than 3 years ago | (#36071260)

Nope.
Not even that:

ftp -A ftp.mozilla.org
cd pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases/latest/win32/en-US/
mget *.exe
quit

Re:The IE Fate (1)

Neil Boekend (1854906) | more than 3 years ago | (#36071318)

I found it a conundrum: Do I start with installing a decent virus scanner or do I start with downloading Firefox? Whether it is nobler in the mind to be able to detect viruses and remove the resource hog that was installed or to prevent most of the viruses altogether?
To install, to sandbox and by sandboxing to say we contained the hooks and the thousands of dangerous file edits that viruses are heir to.

HOSTS files R superior 2 AdBlock &/or DNS alon (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36071264)

20++ ADVANTAGES OF HOSTS FILES OVER DNS SERVERS &/or ADBLOCK ALONE for added layered security:

1.) HOSTS files are useable for all these purposes because they are present on all Operating Systems that have a BSD based IP stack (even ANDROID) and do adblocking for ANY webbrowser, email program, etc. (any webbound program).

2.) Bad news: ADBLOCK CAN BE DETECTED FOR: See here on that note -> http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2010/03/why-ad-blocking-is-devastating-to-the-sites-you-love.ars [arstechnica.com]

HOSTS files are NOT BLOCKABLE by websites, as was tried on users by ARSTECHNICA (and it worked, proving HOSTS files are a better solution for this because they cannot be blocked & detected for, in that manner), to that websites' users' dismay:

PERTINENT QUOTE/EXCERPT FROM ARSTECHNICA THEMSELVES:

----

An experiment gone wrong - By Ken Fisher | Last updated March 6, 2010 11:11 AM

http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2010/03/why-ad-blocking-is-devastating-to-the-sites-you-love.ars [arstechnica.com]

"Starting late Friday afternoon we conducted a 12 hour experiment to see if it would be possible to simply make content disappear for visitors who were using a very popular ad blocking tool. Technologically, it was a success in that it worked. Ad blockers, and only ad blockers, couldn't see our content."

and

"Our experiment is over, and we're glad we did it because it led to us learning that we needed to communicate our point of view every once in a while. Sure, some people told us we deserved to die in a fire. But that's the Internet!"

Thus, as you can see? Well - THAT all "went over like a lead balloon" with their users in other words, because Arstechnica was forced to change it back to the old way where ADBLOCK still could work to do its job (REDDIT however, has not, for example). However/Again - this is proof that HOSTS files can still do the job, blocking potentially malscripted ads (or ads in general because they slow you down) vs. adblockers like ADBLOCK!

----

3.) Adblock doesn't protect email programs external to FF, Hosts files do. THIS IS GOOD VS. SPAM MAIL or MAILS THAT BEAR MALICIOUS SCRIPT, or, THAT POINT TO MALICIOUS SCRIPT VIA URLS etc.

4.) Adblock won't get you to your favorite sites if a DNS server goes down or is DNS-poisoned, hosts will (this leads to points 4-7 next below).

5.) Adblock doesn't allow you to hardcode in your favorite websites into it so you don't make DNS server calls and so you can avoid tracking by DNS request logs, hosts do (DNS servers are also being abused by the Chinese lately and by the Kaminsky flaw -> http://www.networkworld.com/news/2008/082908-kaminsky-flaw-prompts-dns-server.html [networkworld.com] for years now). Hosts protect against those problems via hardcodes of your fav sites (you should verify against the TLD that does nothing but cache IPAddress-to-domainname/hostname resolutions via NSLOOKUP, PINGS, &/or WHOIS though, regularly, so you have the correct IP & it's current)).

6.) HOSTS files protect you vs. DNS-poisoning &/or the Kaminsky flaw in DNS servers, and allow you to get to sites reliably vs. things like the Chinese are doing to DNS -> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/11/29/1755230/Chinese-DNS-Tampering-a-Real-Threat-To-Outsiders [slashdot.org]

7.) HOSTS files will allow you to get to sites you like, via hardcoding your favs into a HOSTS file, FAR faster than DNS servers can by FAR (by saving the roundtrip inquiry time to a DNS server & back to you).

8.) AdBlock doesn't let you block out known bad sites or servers that are known to be maliciously scripted, hosts can and many reputable lists for this exist:

GOOD INFORMATION ON MALWARE BEHAVIOR LISTING BOTNET C&C SERVERS + MORE (AS WELL AS REMOVAL LISTS FOR HOSTS):

http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm [mvps.org]
http://someonewhocares.org/hosts/ [someonewhocares.org]
http://hostsfile.org/hosts.html [hostsfile.org]
http://hostsfile.mine.nu/downloads/ [hostsfile.mine.nu]
http://hosts-file.net/?s=Download [hosts-file.net]
https://zeustracker.abuse.ch/monitor.php?filter=online [abuse.ch]
https://spyeyetracker.abuse.ch/monitor.php [abuse.ch]
http://ddanchev.blogspot.com/ [blogspot.com]
http://www.malware.com.br/lists.shtml [malware.com.br]
http://www.stopbadware.org/ [stopbadware.org]
Spybot "Search & Destroy" IMMUNIZE feature (fortifies HOSTS files with KNOWN bad servers blocked)

And yes: Even SLASHDOT &/or The Register help!

(Via articles on security (when the source articles they use are "detailed" that is, & list the servers/sites involved in attempting to bushwhack others online that is... not ALL do!)).

2 examples thereof in the past I have used, & noted it there, are/were:

http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1898692&cid=34473398 [slashdot.org]
http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1896216&cid=34458500 [slashdot.org]

9.) AdBlock & DNS servers are programs, and subject to bugs programs can get. Hosts files are merely a filter and not a program, thus not subject to bugs of the nature just discussed.

10.) Hosts files don't eat up CPU cycles like AdBlock does while it parses a webpages' content, nor as much as a DNS server does while it runs. HOSTS file are merely a FILTER for the kernel mode/PnP TCP/IP subsystem, which runs FAR FASTER & MORE EFFICIENTY than any ring 3/rpl3/usermode app can.

11.) HOSTS files are EASILY user controlled, obtained (for reliable ones -> http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm [mvps.org] ) & edited too, via texteditors like Windows notepad.exe or Linux nano (etc.)

12.) With Adblock you had better be able to code javascript to play with its code. With hosts you don't even need source to control it (edit, update, delete, insert of new entries via a text editor).

13.) Hosts files are easily secured via using MAC/ACL &/or Read-Only attributes applied.

14.) Custom HOSTS files also speed you up, unlike anonymous proxy servers systems variations (like TOR, or other "highly anonymous" proxy server list servers typically do, in the severe speed hit they often have a cost in) either via "hardcoding" your fav. sites into your hosts file (avoids DNS servers, totally) OR blocking out adbanners - see this below for evidence of that:

US Military Blocks Websites To Free Up Bandwidth:

http://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/03/16/0416238/US-Military-Blocks-Websites-To-Free-Up-Bandwidth [slashdot.org]

(Yes, even the US Military used this type of technique... because IT WORKS! Most of what they blocked? Ad banners ala doubleclick etc.)

ADBANNERS SLOW DOWN THE WEB: -> http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/11/30/166218 [slashdot.org]

and people do NOT LIKE ads on the web:

PEOPLE DISLIKE ADBANNERS: http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/08/04/02/0058247.shtml [slashdot.org]

15.) HOSTS files usage lets you avoid being charged on some ISP/BSP's (OR phone providers) "pay as you use" policy http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/12/08/2012243/FCC-Approving-Pay-As-You-Go-Internet-Plans [slashdot.org] , because you are using less bandwidth (& go faster doing so no less) by NOT hauling in adbanner content and processing it (which can lead to infestation by malware/malicious script, in & of itself -> http://apcmag.com/microsoft_apologises_for_serving_malware.htm [apcmag.com] ).

16.) If/when ISP/BSP's decide to go to -> FCC Approving Pay-As-You-Go Internet Plans: http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/12/08/2012243/FCC-Approving-Pay-As-You-Go-Internet-Plans [slashdot.org] your internet bill will go DOWN if you use a HOSTS file for blocking adbanners as well as maliciously scripted hacker/cracker malware maker sites too (after all - it's your money & time online downloading adbanner content & processing it)

Plus, your adbanner content? Well, it may also be hijacked with malicious code too mind you:

---

Ad networks owned by Google, Microsoft serve malware:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/12/13/doubleclick_msn_malware_attacks/ [theregister.co.uk]

---

Attacks Targeting Classified Ad Sites Surge:

http://it.slashdot.org/story/11/02/02/1433210/Attacks-Targeting-Classified-Ad-Sites-Surge [slashdot.org]

---

Hackers Respond To Help Wanted Ads With Malware:

http://it.slashdot.org/story/11/01/20/0228258/Hackers-Respond-To-Help-Wanted-Ads-With-Malware [slashdot.org]

---

Hackers Use Banner Ads on Major Sites to Hijack Your PC:

http://www.wired.com/techbiz/media/news/2007/11/doubleclick [wired.com]

---

Ruskie gang hijacks Microsoft network to push penis pills:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/10/12/microsoft_ips_hijacked/ [theregister.co.uk]

---

Major ISPs Injecting Ads, Vulnerabilities Into Web:

http://it.slashdot.org/it/08/04/19/2148215.shtml [slashdot.org]

---

Users Know Advertisers Watch Them, and Hate It:

http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/08/04/02/0058247.shtml [slashdot.org]

---

Two Major Ad Networks Found Serving Malware:

http://tech.slashdot.org/story/10/12/13/0128249/Two-Major-Ad-Networks-Found-Serving-Malware [slashdot.org]

---

ADBANNERS SLOW DOWN THE WEB:

http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/11/30/166218 [slashdot.org]

---

THE NEXT AD YOU CLICK MAY BE A VIRUS:

http://it.slashdot.org/story/09/06/15/2056219/The-Next-Ad-You-Click-May-Be-a-Virus [slashdot.org]

---

NY TIMES INFECTED WITH MALWARE ADBANNER:

http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/09/13/2346229 [slashdot.org]

---

MICROSOFT HIT BY MALWARES IN ADBANNERS:

http://apcmag.com/microsoft_apologises_for_serving_malware.htm [apcmag.com]

---

ISP's INJECTING ADS AND ERRORS INTO THE WEB: -> http://it.slashdot.org/it/08/04/19/2148215.shtml [slashdot.org]

---

ADOBE FLASH ADS INJECTING MALWARE INTO THE NET: http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/08/20/0029220&from=rss [slashdot.org]

---

London Stock Exchange Web Site Serving Malware:

http://www.securityweek.com/london-stock-exchange-web-site-serving-malware [securityweek.com]

---

Spotify splattered with malware-tainted ads:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/25/spotify_malvertisement_attack/ [theregister.co.uk]

---

As my list "multiple evidences thereof" as to adbanners & viruses + the fact they slow you down & cost you more (from reputable & reliable sources no less)).

17.) Per point #16, a way to save some money: ANDROID phones can also use the HOSTS FILE TO KEEP DOWN BILLABLE TIME ONLINE, vs. adbanners or malware such as this:

---

Infected Androids Run Up Big Texting Bills:

http://it.slashdot.org/story/11/03/01/0041203/Infected-Androids-Run-Up-Big-Texting-Bills [slashdot.org]

---

It's easily done too, via the ADB dev. tool, & mounting ANDROID OS' system mountpoint for system/etc as READ + WRITE/ADMIN-ROOT PERMISSIONS, then copying your new custom HOSTS over the old one using ADB PULL/ADB PUSH to do so (otherwise ANDROID complains of "this file cannot be overwritten on production models of this Operating System", or something very along those lines - this way gets you around that annoyance along with you possibly having to clear some space there yourself if you packed it with things!).

18.) Adblock blocks ads in only 1-2 browser family, but not all (Disclaimer: Opera now has an AdBlock addon (now that Opera has addons above widgets), but I am not certain the same people make it as they do for FF or Chrome etc.).

19.) Even WIKILEAKS "favors" blacklists (because they work, and HOSTS can be a blacklist vs. known BAD sites/servers/domain-host names):

---

PERTINENT QUOTE/EXCERPT (from -> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/12/16/wikileaks_mirror_malware_warning_row/ [theregister.co.uk] )

"we are in favour of 'Blacklists', be it for mail servers or websites, they have to be compiled with care... Fortunately, more responsible blacklists, like stopbadware.org (which protects the Firefox browser)...

---

20.) AND, LASTLY? SINCE MALWARE GENERALLY HAS TO OPERATE ON WHAT YOU YOURSELF CAN DO (running as limited class/least privlege user, hopefully, OR even as ADMIN/ROOT/SUPERUSER)? HOSTS "LOCK IN" malware too, vs. communicating "back to mama" for orders (provided they have name servers + C&C botnet servers listed in them, blocked off in your HOSTS that is) - you might think they use a hardcoded IP, which IS possible, but generally they do not & RECYCLE domain/host names they own (such as has been seen with the RBN (Russian Business Network) lately though it was considered "dead", other malwares are using its domains/hostnames now, & this? This stops that cold, too - Bonus!)...

Still - It's a GOOD idea to layer in the usage of BOTH browser addons for security like adblock, &/or NoScript (especially this one, as it covers what HOSTS files can't in javascript which is the main deliverer of MOST attacks online & SECUNIA.COM can verify this for anyone really by looking @ the past few years of attacks nowadays), for the concept of "layered security"....

It's just that HOSTS files offer you a LOT MORE gains than Adblock does alone (as hosts do things adblock just plain cannot & on more programs, for more speed, security, and "stealth" to a degree even), and it corrects problems in DNS (as shown above via hardcodes of your favorite sites into your HOSTS file, and more (such as avoiding DNS request logs)).

ALSO - Some more notes on DNS servers & their problems, very recent + ongoing ones:

BIND vs. what the Chinese are doing to DNS lately? See here:

http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/11/29/1755230/Chinese-DNS-Tampering-a-Real-Threat-To-Outsiders [slashdot.org]

---

SECUNIA HIT BY DNS REDIRECTION HACK THIS WEEK:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/11/26/secunia_back_from_dns_hack/ [theregister.co.uk]

(Yes, even "security pros" are helpless vs. DNS problems in code bugs OR redirect DNS poisoning issues, & they can only try to "set the DNS record straight" & then, they still have to wait for corrected DNS info. to propogate across all subordinate DNS servers too - lagtime in which folks DO get "abused" in mind you!)

---

DNS vs. the "Kaminsky DNS flaw", here (and even MORE problems in DNS than just that):

http://www.scmagazineus.com/new-bind-9-dns-flaw-is-worse-than-kaminskys/article/140872/ [scmagazineus.com]

(Seems others are saying that some NEW "Bind9 flaw" is worse than the Kaminsky flaw ALONE, up there, mind you... probably corrected (hopefully), but it shows yet again, DNS hassles (DNS redirect/DNS poisoning) being exploited!)

---

Moxie Marlinspike's found others (0 hack) as well...

Nope... "layered security" truly IS the "way to go" - hacker/cracker types know it, & they do NOT want the rest of us knowing it too!...

(So until DNSSEC takes "widespread adoption"? HOSTS are your answer vs. such types of attack, because the 1st thing your system refers to, by default, IS your HOSTS file (over say, DNS server usage). There are decent DNS servers though, such as OpenDNS, ScrubIT, or even GOOGLE DNS, & because I cannot "cache the entire internet" in a HOSTS file? I opt to use those, because I have to (& OpenDNS has been noted to "fix immediately", per the Kaminsky flaw, in fact... just as a sort of reference to how WELL they are maintained really!)

---

DNS provider decked by DDoS dastards:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/11/16/ddos_on_dns_firm/ [theregister.co.uk]

---

Ten Percent of DNS Servers Still Vulnerable: (so much for "conscientious patching", eh? Many DNS providers weren't patching when they had to!)

http://it.slashdot.org/it/05/08/04/1525235.shtml?tid=172&tid=95&tid=218 [slashdot.org]

---

DDoS Attacks Via DNS Recursion:

http://it.slashdot.org/it/06/03/16/1658209.shtml [slashdot.org]

---

DNS ROOT SERVERS ATTACKED:

http://it.slashdot.org/it/07/02/06/2238225.shtml [slashdot.org]

---

TimeWarner DNS Hijacking:

http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/07/23/2140208 [slashdot.org]

---

DNS Re-Binding Attacks:

http://crypto.stanford.edu/dns/ [stanford.edu]

---

DNS Server Survey Reveals Mixed Security Picture:

http://it.slashdot.org/it/07/11/21/0315239.shtml [slashdot.org]

---

Photobucket's DNS records hijacked by Turkish hacking group:

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/security/title/1285 [zdnet.com]

---

Halvar figured out super-secret DNS vulnerability:

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/security/has-halvar-figured-out-super-secret-dns-vulnerability/1520 [zdnet.com]

---

BIND Still Susceptible To DNS Cache Poisoning:

http://tech.slashdot.org/tech/08/08/09/123222.shtml [slashdot.org]

---

DNS Poisoning Hits One of China's Biggest ISPs:

http://it.slashdot.org/it/08/08/21/2343250.shtml [slashdot.org]

---

SLASHDOT USERS EXPERIENCING SUCCESS USING HOSTS FILES QUOTED VERBATIM:

---

"Ever since I've installed a host file (http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm) to redirect advertisers to my loopback, I haven't had any malware, spyware, or adware issues. I first started using the host file 5 years ago." - by TestedDoughnut (1324447) on Monday December 13, @12:18AM (#34532122)

"I also use the MVPS ad blocking hosts file." - by Rick17JJ (744063) on Wednesday January 19, @03:04PM (#34931482)

"I use ad-Block and a hostfile" - by Ol Olsoc (1175323) on Tuesday March 01, @10:11AM (#35346902)

"^^ One of the many reasons why I like the user-friendliness of the /etc/hosts file." - by lennier1 (264730) on Saturday March 05, @09:26PM (#35393448)

"I use a custom /etc/hosts to block ads... my file gets parsed basically instantly ... So basically, for any modern computer, it has zero visible impact. And even if it took, say, a second to parse, that would be more than offset by the MANY seconds saved by not downloading and rendering ads. I have noticed NO ill effects from running a custom /etc/hosts file for the last several years. And as a matter of fact I DO run http servers on my computers and I've never had an /etc/hosts-related problem... it FUCKING WORKS and makes my life better overall." - by sootman (158191) on Monday July 13 2009, @11:47AM (#28677363) Homepage Journal

"I do use Hosts, for a couple fake domains I use." - by icebraining (1313345) on Saturday December 11, @09:34AM (#34523012) Homepage

"They've been on my HOSTS block for years" - by ScottCooperDotNet (929575) on Thursday August 05 2010, @01:52AM (#33147212)

"Better than an ad blocker, imo. Hosts file entries: http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm [mvps.org] [mvps.org]" - by TempestRose (1187397) on Tuesday March 15, @12:53PM (#35493274)

"I'm currently only using my hosts file to block pheedo ads from showing up in my RSS feeds and causing them to take forever to load. Regardless of its original intent, it's still a valid tool, when used judiciously." - by Bill Dog (726542) on Monday April 25, @02:16AM (#35927050) Homepage Journal

"put in your /etc/hosts:" - by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 03, @09:17AM (#34429688)

---

Then, there is also the words of respected security expert, Mr. Oliver Day, from SECUNIA.COM to "top that all off" as well:

A RETURN TO THE KILLFILE:

http://www.securityfocus.com/columnists/491 [securityfocus.com]

Some "PERTINENT QUOTES/EXCERPTS" to back up my points with (for starters):

---

"The host file on my day-to-day laptop is now over 16,000 lines long. Accessing the Internet -- particularly browsing the Web -- is actually faster now."

Speed, and security, is the gain... others like Mr. Day note it as well!

---

"From what I have seen in my research, major efforts to share lists of unwanted hosts began gaining serious momentum earlier this decade. The most popular appear to have started as a means to block advertising and as a way to avoid being tracked by sites that use cookies to gather data on the user across Web properties. More recently, projects like Spybot Search and Destroy offer lists of known malicious servers to add a layer of defense against trojans and other forms of malware."

Per my points exactly, no less... & guess who was posting about HOSTS files a 14++ yrs. or more back & Mr. Day was reading & now using? Yours truly (& this is one of the later ones, from 2001 http://www.furtherleft.net/computer.htm [furtherleft.net] (but the example HOSTS file with my initials in it is FAR older, circa 1998 or so) or thereabouts, and referred to later by a pal of mine who moderates NTCompatible.com (where I posted on HOSTS for YEARS (1997 onwards)) -> http://www.ntcompatible.com/thread28597-1.html [ntcompatible.com] !

---

"Shared host files could be beneficial for other groups as well. Human rights groups have sought after block resistant technologies for quite some time. The GoDaddy debacle with NMap creator Fyodor (corrected) showed a particularly vicious blocking mechanism using DNS registrars. Once a registrar pulls a website from its records, the world ceases to have an effective way to find it. Shared host files could provide a DNS-proof method of reaching sites, not to mention removing an additional vector of detection if anyone were trying to monitor the use of subversive sites. One of the known weaknesses of the Tor system, for example, is direct DNS requests by applications not configured to route such requests through Tor's network."

There you go: AND, it also works vs. the "KAMINSKY DNS FLAW" & DNS poisoning/redirect attacks, for redirectable weaknesses in DNS servers (non DNSSEC type, & set into recursive mode especially) and also in the TOR system as well (that lends itself to anonymous proxy usage weaknesses I noted above also) and, you'll get to sites you want to, even IF a DNS registrar drops said websites from its tables as shown here Beating Censorship By Routing Around DNS -> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/12/09/1840246/Beating-Censorship-By-Routing-Around-DNS [slashdot.org] & even DNSBL also (DNS Block Lists) -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNSBL [wikipedia.org] as well - DOUBLE-BONUS!

APK

P.S.=> SOME MINOR "CAVEATS/CATCH-22's" - things to be aware of for "layered security" + HOSTS file performance - easily overcome, or not a problem at all:

A.) HOSTS files don't function under PROXY SERVERS (except for Proximitron, which has a filter that allows it) - Which is *the "WHY"* of why I state in my "P.S." section below to use both AdBlock type browser addon methods (or even built-in block lists browsers have such as Opera's URLFILTER.INI file, & FireFox has such as list as does IE also) in combination with HOSTS, for the best in "layered security" (alongside .pac files + custom cascading style sheets that can filter off various tags such as scripts or ads etc.) - but proxies, especially "HIGHLY ANONYMOUS" types, generally slow you down to a CRAWL online (& personally, I cannot see using proxies "for the good" typically - as they allow "truly anonymous posting" & have bugs (such as TOR has been shown to have & be "bypassable/traceable" via its "onion routing" methods)).

B.) HOSTS files do NOT protect you vs. javascript (this only holds true IF you don't already have a bad site blocked out in your HOSTS file though, & the list of sites where you can obtain such lists to add to your HOSTS are above (& updated daily in many of them)).

C.) HOSTS files (relatively "largish ones") require you to turn off Windows' native "DNS local client cache service" (which has a problem in that it's designed with a non-redimensionable/resizeable list, array, or queue (DNS data loads into a C/C++ structure actually/afaik, which IS a form of array)) - mvps.org covers that in detail and how to easily do this in Windows (this is NOT a problem in Linux, & it's 1 thing I will give Linux over Windows, hands-down). Relatively "smallish" HOSTS files don't have this problem (mvps.org offers 2 types for this).

D.) HOSTS files, once read/loaded, once GET CACHED, for speed of access/re-access (@ system startup in older MS OS' like 2000, or, upon a users' 1st request that's "Webbound" via say, a webbrowser) gets read into either the DNS local caching client service (noted above), OR, if that's turned off? Into your local diskcache (like ANY file is), so it reads F A S T upon re-reads/subsequent reads (until it's changed in %WinDir%\system32\drivers\etc on Windows, which marks it "Dirty" & then it gets re-read + reloaded into the local diskcache again). This may cause a SMALL lag upon reload though, depending on the size of your HOSTS file.

E.) HOSTS files don't protect vs. BGP exploits - Sorry, once it's out of your hands/machine + past any interior network + routers you have, the packets you send are out there into the ISP/BSP's hands - they're "the Agents" holding all the keys to the doorways at that point (hosts are just a forcefield-filter (for lack of a better description) armor on what can come in mostly, & a bit of what can go out too (per point 18 above on "locking in malware")). Hosts work as a "I can't get burned if I can't go into the kitchen" protection, for you: Not your ISP/BSP. It doesn't extend to them

F.) HOSTS files don't protect vs. IP addressed adbanners (rare) &/or IP address utilizing malwares (rare too, most used domain/host names because they're "RECYCLABLE/REUSEABLE"), so here, you must couple HOSTS files w/ firewall rules tables (either in software firewalls OR router firewall rules table lists)... apk

Re:HOSTS files R superior 2 AdBlock &/or DNS a (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36074488)

GTFO loser.

An application of "ReVeRsE-PsYcHoLoGy" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36074592)

Instead of spouting your off topic gibberish quoted below:

".resol OFTG" - by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 09, @02:48PM (#36074488)

Ahem: Why don't you instead TRY to disprove the 20++ points I listed in favor of HOSTS files over AdBlock &/or DNS Servers alone, instead of your ad hominem attack based off topic gibberish?

APK

P.S.=> I know WHY you don't: It's because you CAN'T...

I.E.-> The points in my original post you replied to, off topic as you did? They are just way, Way, WAY TOO SOLID for the likes of an "off topic troll" like yourself to even BEGIN to have the intelligence, or knowledgebase, to get the better of them: Period (and, you KNOW it)

... apk

Re:An application of "ReVeRsE-PsYcHoLoGy" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36074960)

.resol OFTG

Dear off topic ad hominem attack using troll (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36075208)

Disprove the points I put out in favor of HOSTS files over Adblock &/or DNS Servers alone here, why don't you:

http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2136896&cid=36071264 [slashdot.org]

(Oh, that's right: That'd clearly be beyond your abilities/means! Keep running troll... lol!)

APK

P.S.=> So, that "all said & aside": You can try your "hit & run" downmod via your registered account(s) here, which are doubtless more than just 1, & troll me as you have as well... but, in the end?

Well - It's ending up with you looking very silly running away from a simple challenge I have put forth your way, of having you disprove the 20++ points in favor of HOSTS files over AdBlock &/or DNS servers alone (which you clearly will ALWAYS run away from, like the off topic trolling cowardly scum you are)... apk

An application of "ReVeRsE-PsYcHoLoGy" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36075230)

"ReVeRsE-PsYcHoLoGy":
Tell APK to GTFO and he will never, never leave. APK looks silly. Everyone wins.

U FAIL: & U ran like the coward U are (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36075430)

So, disprove the 20++ points in favor of HOSTS files I put out in my original post here:

http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2136896&cid=36071264 [slashdot.org]

LMAO - I always get HUGE amusement from watching little ad hominem attack using anonymous COWARD (emphasizing it in your case) trolls like yourself, outright RUN from doing that... lol!

APK

P.S.=> So, in the end? All You have your mod down via your registered account, but that's about it, lol.... nothing of substance from you that makes that initial post of mine on the benefits of HOSTS files over AdBlock &/or DNS Servers alone look bad whatsoever... lol, which IS JUST HOW I LIKE IT! apk

Re:U FAIL: & U ran like the coward U are (1)

MichaelKristopeit426 (2041294) | more than 3 years ago | (#36075656)

you = stagnated.

U FAIL Mike, as usual... apk (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36075728)

Instead of tossing your effete b.s. around here & making me laugh hugely as you do, via your NUMEROUS registered "luser" accounts (what # are they up to now Mike)?

Why don't YOU try & disprove my 20++ points in favor of HOSTS files here instead:

http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2136896&cid=36071264 [slashdot.org]

LMAO - See, I always get HUGE amusement from watching little trolls like yourself, outright RUN from doing that, & every damn time too, lol!

APK

P.S.=> So, again - in the end?

All You have your mod down via your registered accounts & ad hominem attacks, but that's about it, lol.... nothing of substance from you that makes that initial post of mine on the benefits of HOSTS files over AdBlock &/or DNS Servers alone look bad whatsoever... lol, which IS JUST HOW I LIKE IT! apk

Re:U FAIL Mike, as usual... apk (1)

MichaelKristopeit426 (2041294) | more than 3 years ago | (#36075784)

ur mum's face making me laugh hugely.

What's this? MichaelKristopeit FAILS?? Again??? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36075932)

Disprove the 20++ points in favor of HOSTS files I put out in my original post here:

http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2136896&cid=36071264 [slashdot.org]

LMAO - I always get HUGE amusement from watching little ad hominem attack using trolls like yourself, outright RUN from doing that... lol!

APK

P.S.=> So, in the end? All You have your mod down via your registered account, but that's about it, lol.... nothing of substance from you that makes that initial post of mine on the benefits of HOSTS files over AdBlock &/or DNS Servers alone look bad whatsoever... lol, which IS JUST HOW I LIKE IT!

... apk

Re:What's this? MichaelKristopeit FAILS?? Again??? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36084526)

Don't you dare reply to me again, you piece of human filth.

U R the " Ayatollah of 'U RAN'" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36084664)

Disprove the 20++ points in favor of HOSTS files I put out in my original post here:

http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2136896&cid=36071264 [slashdot.org] [slashdot.org]

LMAO - I always get HUGE amusement from watching little ad hominem attack using trolls like yourself, outright RUN from doing that... lol!

(Oh: &, I would have called you "the Shah of 'U RAN'", but I don't think that's "politically correct" (literally, nowadays))...

APK

P.S.=> So, in the end? All You have your mod down via your registered account, but that's about it, lol.... nothing of substance from you that makes that initial post of mine on the benefits of HOSTS files over AdBlock &/or DNS Servers alone look bad whatsoever... lol, which IS JUST HOW I LIKE IT!

... apk

Re:I live in Indonesia... (2)

kangsterizer (1698322) | more than 3 years ago | (#36071398)

My main reason to use Firefox, beside that its fast and work well enough, is that they're always doing the right thing and not the "commercial thing" or "what pleases governments/corporations" etc.
No other browser seems to deliver that. As I want the web to keep being free and standardized, well that's that for me.

Re:I live in Indonesia... (1)

vandamme (1893204) | more than 3 years ago | (#36092006)

Then the next thing you will want to do, is be free of Windows altogether.
http://www.whylinuxisbetter.net/ [whylinuxisbetter.net]

Re:I live in Indonesia... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36073268)

note that bandwidth is expensive in Indonesia

I understand it that Opera has a large market share in Eastern Europe for similar reasons. The ability to toggle images and plug-in content as needed and the Opera Turbo compression lets people save in on their metered internet bill.

Re:I live in Indonesia... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36080056)

Firefox 4.0 very nice .........

Hmm (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36069852)

fast growing nation with potential to be a world power house

Lets see the FUD come out to play

Re:Hmm (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36069914)

Fud doesn't play, he's hunting wabbits!

mynutswon; contenders in the hymenology wars (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36069880)

for now anyway. the way history, & the present, seem to be being deceptionally maintained & manipulated by self worshiping neogods, we're lucky to even get to be not dead, so far today, thanks to our rulers? the chosen ones rulers' multi-decade depopulation debauchery mandate (from god?) could keep our real future unavailable, maybe even passing us by?

after the disarmaments are complete, there'll be no need for all that phony fatal hoopla. you call this 'weather'? read the teepeeleaks etchings,, please. thank you. making up for ourselves monday has finally arrived, in the midst of this maelstrom?

There is no winner (4, Insightful)

91degrees (207121) | more than 3 years ago | (#36069902)

It's a constant battle for supremacy. Firefox hasn't won anything. It's simply the leader at the moment.

Microsoft realise this. Mozilla's advocates would be well advised to keep this in mind and not get complacent.

Re:There is no winner (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36069932)

Hence "winner for now" rather than "winner".

Re:There is no winner (1)

CrackedButter (646746) | more than 3 years ago | (#36070380)

'Winner' to me has always meant something that was final. A 'winner for now' makes no sense because the winner can still lose and therefore can't be a winner. When we have a word to describe the exact situation, 'leader' we should use it.

Re:There is no winner (1)

e70838 (976799) | more than 3 years ago | (#36070450)

History (and the art of war) teaches us that there is never a final winner. Only "winner for now" makes sense.

Re:There is no winner (1)

CrackedButter (646746) | more than 3 years ago | (#36071524)

I've never heard the phrase 'winner for now' at all in my lifetime. I also don't recount seeing 'winner for now' in the Art of War unless your para-phrasing. I agree there is never a final winner but 'winner for now' just doesn't compute. Victors, winners and leaders sufficiently cover the related outcomes. I'm willing to change my point of view if you can prove otherwise.

Simply put, Firefox is the market leader in Indonesia and that's how the title of this story should be described.

Re:There is no winner (1)

Rizimar (1986164) | more than 3 years ago | (#36073798)

And they're off! Mario shoots ahead and is off to a great start as the winner (for now)! But, uh-oh, Bowser just got a red shell! Whammo! Mario is spinning out of control and Bowser zooms by as the winner for now. Mario recovers with a mushroom and blasts ahead and is once again today's winner for now. And here he comes, approaching the finish line, and... hold on a second! Yoshi comes screaming past into first place at the last second! The race is over! Yoshi has won this race! (But only for now. The race is entirely over, but the outcome can still change!)

Re:There is no winner (1)

tehcyder (746570) | more than 3 years ago | (#36080130)

History (and the art of war) teaches us that there is never a final winner. Only "winner for now" makes sense.

Well, OK, then the Allies are "winners for now" against the Axis powers in World War Two.
Happy?

Re:There is no winner (1)

RockDoctor (15477) | more than 3 years ago | (#36086934)

Well, OK, then the Allies are "winners for now" against the Axis powers in World War Two.

Happy?

Did you read your ballot papers for last week's election? Mine had three - count them, three - different variants on the resurgent Nazi Party.

Come back in a century and you might well see that the Nazis are back in power and regretting their temporary setback in the second half of the twentieth century.

Re:There is no winner (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36072170)

I am the winrar!

Re:There is no winner (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36069964)

Mozilla has won the most important battle by getting Microsoft off of its ass and actually developing a browser again. While Microsoft had a virtual monopoly on browsers, innovation stalled and security issues exploded. Compare today and 5 years ago and you will see that consumer has gained many things, among them are options to pick another browser while still being able to use most websites.

Re:There is no winner (1)

owlnation (858981) | more than 3 years ago | (#36070384)

"Mozilla has won the most important battle by getting Microsoft off of its ass and actually developing a browser again. While Microsoft had a virtual monopoly on browsers, innovation stalled and security issues exploded. Compare today and 5 years ago and you will see that consumer has gained many things, among them are options to pick another browser while still being able to use most websites."

That's true. However... Mozilla is showing every sign of repeating every mistake they made with Netscape, with Firefox. Compare today with 15 years ago, for that one.

There's far too much feature creep and bloat in Firefox now, and there's still plenty of memory issues that have never been addressed. But worst of all, its lack of multi-threading pushes it far behind the competition.

I used to love Firefox. I still use it for the add-ons, but its lack of utility is becoming a real problem. One that gets worse with every new version.

The best thing this new army of Indonesian developers could do, is strip Firefox back to basics, fix the bugs, give it multi-threading, and recreate all the bloated features from the past 3 or 4 versions as add-ons. What's the point of an add-on system, if all you do is cripple the browser with stuff many people do not need? Allow people to choose.

If they did that, then Firefox could be innovative again. If they don't... well, it's just well on its way to becoming Netscape 2. Which will suffer the same fate.

Re:There is no winner (1)

kangsterizer (1698322) | more than 3 years ago | (#36071444)

Just FYI Firefox has multiprocess for tabs and UI (not multi threading - its already multi thread) planned. The mobile version already uses a separate process for the UI in fact.

Additionally, multi process tabs, while "solving" a few issues (since even if you have leaks or bugs=> close tab and it works) uses a lot more memory.

Then again, Firefox 4 uses a memory pool per tab (global in FF 3) for security and that already uses quite some memory, so yeah. Anyhow, multi-process is coming.

Also, it's still very fast. Mozilla 4/5 became really huge and slow. FF4 is as fast.. and faster in many areas than the competition (and slightly slower in some areas). So it's not nearly as bad as you picture it to be :)

Re:There is no winner (3, Interesting)

Tuqui (96668) | more than 3 years ago | (#36070096)

It's a constant battle for supremacy. Firefox hasn't won anything.It's simply the leader at the moment.

Firefox already won !
In the days mozilla started, there where sites requiring VBscript and ActiveX to display.
If mozilla failed your servers would be running IIS, and .Net, and Silverlight would already destroyed Flash.

Re:There is no winner (1)

GNious (953874) | more than 3 years ago | (#36072510)

Our definition of Victory is that Flash still exists? Oh, man, we're futbucked.

Re:There is no winner (1)

Tuqui (96668) | more than 3 years ago | (#36090480)

No my definition of victory is that we have options to choose. Not only IE and MS staff.

Re:There is no winner (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36070246)

As long as no browser wins, we win.

If one would completely obliterate the competition, development would grind to a halt. See Microsoft for example: they didn't care while they were leading. Now that they have competition they have to catch up.

I've been using Netscape and later Mozilla all my online life but I wouldn't want them to globally dominate the market for two reasons: 1) too much attention is bad (more targetted malware, legal wars by corporations to regain market share, attacks on add-ons like adblock) 2) monopolies result in shitty products.

Re:There is no winner (1)

BreezeC (2040184) | more than 3 years ago | (#36071896)

Before Chrome,Firefox was winner.But now, Firefox has much to do.

Who would have thought... (-1, Troll)

jim_kaiser (1696460) | more than 3 years ago | (#36069970)

that Indonesia would have the most tech savvy crowd (i.e. know a shitty browser (IE) when they see one.. and stay the hell away from it). But that makes sense.. considering it's an emerging market where Microsoft didn't get a chance to establish its monopoly because of already established competitors..

Re:Who would have thought... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36070018)

Actually you would probably find a higher incidence of Windows in Indonesia compared to America/Europe. People in developing countries use products that are good, not on the basis of open-source vs. monopoly arguments.

Re:Who would have thought... (1, Interesting)

G-forze (1169271) | more than 3 years ago | (#36070026)

Actually you would probably find a higher incidence of Windows in Indonesia compared to America/Europe. People in developing countries use products that are good, not on the basis of open-source vs. monopoly arguments.

Then why would they use Windows?

Re:Who would have thought... (3, Insightful)

koinu (472851) | more than 3 years ago | (#36070062)

Not really. The last virus infections I found have been on business servers in Indonesia and the Blackberry phones they use, when I was in Indonesia last year. I don't call this "tech savvy", when you don't have an idea how to keep your servers up-to-date with latest security patches and everything runs on deprecated Windows XP installations with old service packs. Running Firefox there does not give them bonus points.

Re:Who would have thought... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36070208)

I live in Indonesia, I wouldn't call the general population here tech savvy either, most computers I see around run pirated and unpatched windows XP including large companies and government. Virus infections are so common that many users not even bother anymore to clean up their machines because they would probably get infected again in a week. The fact they can't get patches from Microsoft is probably the main reason why Firefox is so widespread.

Re:Who would have thought... (1)

jim_kaiser (1696460) | more than 3 years ago | (#36070604)

You make some good points.. i agree that pirated windows is probably one reason for not using IE.. As for Windows XP.. with the SP's its still the best windows distro from a programming point of view atleast.. But, i still find it surprising that so many people even know firefox. I'm from India and I can say for sure.. the general population would have almost never even heard of firefox.. they just get their Windows (pirated or otherwise) bundled with IE and thats it.. maybe 10-20% of users know/use firefox/safari/chrome (just an estimate.. could be inaccurate)..

Re:Who would have thought... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36070196)

From TFA "Mozilla does not fully understand why Firefox has caught on in Indonesia, Kanai said."

I'll explain why: most of internet access in here is done through public spaces such as school/university 'libraries' and internet cafes. Internet cafes hold the biggest share and they usually use firefox because it's easier to lock down than IE (and those environments are set up by techies) and firefox provides indonesian translation. Common people use it because at most times, they have no choice. Many are also not profficient in english, so public terminals owners are more inclined to install a browser with localized language. Socially, people refer firefox to their friends mainly because of adblock. Bandwidth is still somewhat a luxury in here, so people try to filter out unneeded things to speed up site loads.

And btw,

considering it's an emerging market where Microsoft didn't get a chance to establish its monopoly because of already established competitors..

Our established Microsoft competitors is pirated Ms products, and it sure is a very established 'business'. Only cheap-ass businesses would force the usage of linux in their environment (the local police do scheduled raids to businesses to check conformity with microsoft licenses).

Nice move, Mozilla (2)

davids_xls (888798) | more than 3 years ago | (#36070060)

The Indonesian translation of various software is just too funny to use and sometimes confuses even experienced user in the field who are used to English.

Re:Nice move, Mozilla (2)

gmueckl (950314) | more than 3 years ago | (#36070294)

In other words just like the German translation of Microsoft products: technical terms forcefully translated into German in hideous ways so that only translating them back into English can give you hints to the originally intended meaning of the message.

No surprise Indonesia is so important to Mozilla (1)

TechForensics (944258) | more than 3 years ago | (#36070314)

Not surprising this emphasis is being put on Indonesia since, if I remember right, it is the world's seventh most populous country.

Penetration (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36070350)

What's the Internet penetration rate in Indonesia?

Re:Penetration (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36070394)

Not sure about internet penetration, but there are a lot of people that go to Indonesia for other kinds of penetration. Underage, in particular.

Re:Penetration (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36071522)

12.3% (30 million users) according to http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats3.htm . No source or even a date is given, though.

Re:No surprise Indonesia is so important to Mozill (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36070356)

comparing internet users population might yield more sense that rough population though...

Re:No surprise Indonesia is so important to Mozill (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36070762)

I'm another anonymous coward from Indonesia, where the only connection is mobile connection for the most part of the country. Blackberry rules. As for not-so-smart phone, Opera Mini often comes bundled with the data plan and sometimes it won't do any good for websites other than Facebook or Twitter. Firefox--the desktop browser--won nothing therein.

I declare the browser war to be OVER (0)

jellomizer (103300) | more than 3 years ago | (#36070456)

Under the authority of myself, I declare the browser war to be over and the victor is No one!
The Great Netscape vs. IE of the Late 90's was was a completely different dynamic then it is today.
It was the case the both browsers were trying to push their version of the standards. CSS vs. Layers JavaScript vs. VBScript. Java Applets vs. Flash vs. ActiveX. To the victor the rights to use their technology to the looser having to pay license fees and 2 to 3 months of extra development which could have been put towards improving the product. For the most part IE won the first browser war but not without concessions. JavaScript and Flash and a bunch of open standards survived. ActiveX technology was a failure, as it predictably was a huge security problem, and shortly relegated to corporate intranets as just an easier way to deploy you VB applications.
As Microsoft was the declared winner by the release of IE 5. They pushed out IE 6 to keep IE and windows in sync. Then it lingered without much competition to too long. Becoming a sap for Mal-Ware partially due to the fact that there were some poor design decisions and partially just because it has been out for so long that crackers have found many many holes to use, and its wide usage makes it an easy target.
So after a bunch of failed attempts on the Netscape/Mozilla side. (Netscape 6, Mozilla...) a group decided to make a lightweight browser, except for the heavy all purpose one, Firefox. Being small light and fast, made it easy to put on those new fangled USB drives and installed in no time on a lot of computers. Combined the timing matched when Windows XP with IE 6 are being heavily crippled with malware, Firefox was a savior. Thus its rebirth (of the "Netscape" Browser)
As Firefox grew it reached a point where Web Developers needed to make sure their code was compatible and they found out that Firefox suppored the standards much better then IE did. So Firefox shortly became much more of a joy to code for, and IE became their bane. But that allowed more Standard Complacent pages to come up, with opened the door for other browsers, Like Safari where Apple took and modified Konquers code. then Google Chrome, and Opera even made their product as a free (as in cost) download. Now Firefox, Safari, Opera and Chrome really stopped competing with IE 6 (as it was so out of date that it wasn't worth it) and competing amongst them selfs to see who is faster then the other and who supports the standards the best.
IE 7 came out but it was tied to the stench of Vista, IE 8 as well, Although still the largest in market share it has been loosing a lot of ground to the others. Now Microsoft released IE 9 which supports open standards and runs rather quickly.
So the war has been over we are now in an area of increasing competition and improvements. Browsers are no longer fighting for the rights to push their standards they are all going trying to push the best use of the open standards and better performance, and this is a good thing

Re:I declare the browser war to be OVER (1)

BZ (40346) | more than 3 years ago | (#36073356)

Sort of.

For example, Chrome's certainly fighting for the right to push their own standards; they just don't mind if someone else implements them too, since it all helps their non-browser business. But there's a fair amount of "we'll implement this, write up a useless description that doesn't actually describe how it works, throw it over the wall at the W3C, open-source the code, and claim that this is an open standard" going on in Chrome-land. This is how NaCl is being done, this is how a bunch of DOM stuff is being done, this is how some CSS features are being done.

It's a slightly better approach than MSIE in 2000, but only slightly.

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Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36070580)

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Nice Asia, how about South America? (1)

aBaldrich (1692238) | more than 3 years ago | (#36070694)

Chrome has already displaced Firefox as the largest non-IE brwoser in Argentina, Uruguay, Brazil, and Chile; and other regions are following the same path.
That's what I love about fair competition: now Firefox is bound to implement multithreads if it wants to catch up.

Focus on China and South Korea (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36070766)

IE6 usage is still too high in those countries, In the rest of the world Firefox helped get rid of IE6 which is now reduced to corporate users only. In fact IE6 usage is actually increasing in China and is over 35%. Firefox needs to go all out and advertise in these IE strong holds.

In spite of that... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36071402)

Windows still shows almost 80% market share in Indonesia...

I wonder where on Earth is Linux more used? Germany?

Awesome bar (1)

PixetaledPikachu (1007305) | more than 3 years ago | (#36071506)

Because the awesome bar is.. awesome!

Bandwidth Question in Indonesia (1)

retroworks (652802) | more than 3 years ago | (#36071784)

I do a lot of business in Indonesia and Malaysia, as well as Egypt and Peru. The browsers people use, and versions they use, have to do with bandwidth, which in turn has to do with availability of affordable computers. In countries where the hyper-rich are the only ones with internet, they tend to have whatever speed of PC and bandwidth they want. As the nation gets more and more penetration, and "emerging middle class" starts to get online more (the case in Indonesia and Malaysia and Egypt), bandwidth tends to be a moving target, getting more strained as more people use it. Anyway, my experience is that liberal internet access tends to reward browsers and programs that run with less bandwidth, less strain on CPU, etc.
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