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Canadian Music Industry Seeks Copy Tax On Memory Cards

timothy posted more than 3 years ago | from the serf-canada dept.

Canada 265

An anonymous reader writes "The Canadian music industry's copyright collective is demanding the creation of a new copying tax on all memory cards sold in Canada. The Canadian Private Copying Collective has filed for a tax of up to $3 per memory card to compensate for music copying on SD cards. If approved, the tax could cost consumers millions of dollars." Makes no less sense than the current levy exacted on blank CDs and audiotapes in Canada — and no more sense, either.

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Hosers! (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36126612)

Take off, eh?!

Re:Hosers! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36126950)

i am really not a racist or a bigot. in fact i think humor can help fix shit like that. i just really really think the term "spear chucker" is hilarious. i can imagine one on a primitive tribal african savannah hunting a wildebeest or something.

didja know it was a black man named Anthony Johnson who first introduced permanent black slavery to the usa? how come Black History Month doesn't cover that one? oh yeah and the white man didnt have to take slaves from africa by force either. other black africans captured them in raiding expeditions and sold the captive blacks to the white slave traders. Black History Month missed that one too strangely enough. but we're supposed to feel "white guilt" over slavery. yeah sure. fuck, we already paid slavery reparations it's called welfare.

so yeah anyway the cool thing about humor is you dont have to cover up the truth just to handle the truth.

great idea (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36126620)

so once you have paid the copy tax you are free to copy as much music as you like?

Re:great idea (2, Insightful)

Barbara, not Barbie (721478) | more than 3 years ago | (#36126788)

so once you have paid the copy tax you are free to copy as much music as you like?

No - there position is that this is to compensate for undetected copying - if they catch you, I'm sure they'll be willing to deduct the $3 from the $BAZZILLON_BUX_FOR_COCAINE_AND_HOOKERS that they'll try to get from you - and you can be sure that the artist will still end up getting the sharp end of the stick when it comes to apportioning that money.

Re:great idea (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36126906)

This is untrue. The Copyright Board of Canada has advised that the levy DOES protect copying and P2P downloading.

Re:great idea (3, Informative)

Vlad_the_Inhaler (32958) | more than 3 years ago | (#36127058)

I live in Germany.
They have this "tax" on various devices / media such as: writeable CDs, CD/DVD burners, printers (!), I can't remember what else.
That does not stop them going for people they think are file-sharing, copying content or whatever.

Absolute parasites. The government are just as bad for forgetting who they are supposed to be representing and going along with this theft.

Re:great idea (1)

Dcnjoe60 (682885) | more than 3 years ago | (#36127214)

I live in Germany.
They have this "tax" on various devices / media such as: writeable CDs, CD/DVD burners, printers (!), I can't remember what else.
That does not stop them going for people they think are file-sharing, copying content or whatever.

Absolute parasites. The government are just as bad for forgetting who they are supposed to be representing and going along with this theft.

They probably don't charge $3 (or whatever the Euro equivalent is) per blank CD, though.

Re:great idea (3, Informative)

Barbara, not Barbie (721478) | more than 3 years ago | (#36127210)

This is untrue. The Copyright Board of Canada has advised that the levy DOES protect copying and P2P downloading.

I believe you are incorrect. The section of the revised Copyright Act [justice.gc.ca] only grants a limited right to making a private copy.

While subsection 1 of section 80 does indeed grant a limited right to make a private copy, it has restrictions, as noted in subsection 2:

(2) Subsection (1) does not apply if the act described in that subsection is done for the purpose of doing any of the following in relation to any of the things referred to in paragraphs (1)(a) to (c):

(a) selling or renting out, or by way of trade exposing or offering for sale or rental;
(b) distributing, whether or not for the purpose of trade;
(c) communicating to the public by telecommunication; or
(d) performing, or causing to be performed, in public.

You can certainly make a copy of your own CD. You can't use a P2P program to share (and because even leachers need to at least take part in sharing the data as to what parts they need of the .torrent, it can be argued that they are also taking part in (c) above, and not exempt).

The big print giveth, the fine print taketh away.

compression (1)

goombah99 (560566) | more than 3 years ago | (#36126968)

so once you have paid the copy tax you are free to copy as much music as you like?

Yes! but data compression requires extra payment. So you can only use AIFF or FLAC not MP3

Re:great idea (1)

Sqr(twg) (2126054) | more than 3 years ago | (#36127060)

Don't know about Canada, but in Sweden: Yes. The tax is there to compensate the music industry for the fact that you can legally give a copies of music you bought to friends and relatives. (Massive copying is still illegal.) Those who need large quantities of storage media, such as professional musicians and photographers, are exempt from the tax. This is an awesome solution compared to most countries where you are a thief if you make a mixed tape for a friend.

Re:great idea (1)

realityimpaired (1668397) | more than 3 years ago | (#36127118)

In Canada, it's been used to justify downloading/copying, but distribution is still verboten.

If the Conservative government tries to introduce a Canadian DMCA like they have in the past, I expect the levy to be used as grounds to challenge it in court.

Re:great idea (5, Informative)

green1 (322787) | more than 3 years ago | (#36127108)

The current official government position on the existing levy is YES. There are some oddball rules, but yes.

The law as it stands right now is that you are allowed to copy for personal use providing you have the original legal copy in your possession at the time you make the recording. They don't however deal with how you came to have the original in your position. Seems reasonable enough on the surface, however it gets odd in the implementation, I'll give some examples:
- I buy a CD, I lend it to you, you copy the CD and give back the original. Perfectly legal.
- I buy a CD, I copy it and give you the copy. although the end result is identical to the first case, this way is illegal.
- I buy a CD, I copy it, I keep the copy and give you the original. Perfectly legal.
- I buy a CD, I lend it to you, you copy the CD and give back the copy. although the end result is identical to the last example, this is illegal.

Additionally, the Canadian courts have ruled that downloading music IS legal per this situation (uploading however is not)

Now I still don't like the levy, because it is paid on all blank media, regardless of what you do with said media. which means when I make server backups, the recording industry gets a cut. What may however be an even bigger miscarriage of justice though is that small independent artists, with no affiliation to the large media conglomerates, have to pay this levy on all of their blank media as well, with no hope of recovering any of it. (Large record labels don't pay the levy as they press CDs instead of buying recordable CDs and burning them)

Of course while all this is going on, the record industry is ALSO working very hard to ban copying for personal use, however I have a feeling they have no intention of having the media levy repealed when they succeed (and I say when, not if, because it has been before parliament at least twice so far, only failing due to a fall of the minority government, since the recent election the Conservatives now have a majority, and this is one of the bills they have promised to pass quickly, so unfortunately I'm pretty sure we will lose all fair use rights very soon)... and I really have a problem paying a levy on the assumption that I will do something that is illegal.

Faulty logic (1)

Dcnjoe60 (682885) | more than 3 years ago | (#36127236)

- I buy a CD, I lend it to you, you copy the CD and give back the original. Perfectly legal.
- I buy a CD, I copy it and give you the copy. although the end result is identical to the first case, this way is illegal.
- I buy a CD, I copy it, I keep the copy and give you the original. Perfectly legal.
- I buy a CD, I lend it to you, you copy the CD and give back the copy. although the end result is identical to the last example, this is illegal.

Your logic is faulty. In the first case, you are legal, your friend has committed an illegal act. In the second case, you have committed the illegal act. In case 3, you are only legal, under personal use copy, until you transfer title of the original CD to your friend at which time your copy is now illegal as you no longer own the original. In case 4, you are legal, your friend is illegal for distributing the copy.

In all four cases, somebody is illegal and therefore the results are technically identical with the exception of who has violated the law.

Great!!! (4, Funny)

dskoll (99328) | more than 3 years ago | (#36126622)

This will stimulate international trade! US citizens will buy their drugs from Canada and we'll buy our storage media from the US.

Canada/US (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36126624)

And Canadians give US crap about our messed up laws...

Only if we get an equal tax on the music industry (2)

Barbara, not Barbie (721478) | more than 3 years ago | (#36126630)

... to compensate for all the brain cells that were destroyed trying to make sense out of their stand ...

There can be some justification to tax the specific device (ipod), but not a multi-purpose medium.

Re:Only if we get an equal tax on the music indust (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 3 years ago | (#36127112)

There can be some justification to tax the specific device (ipod), but not a multi-purpose medium.

I believe the tax is proportional to the fraction of media that are used for the taxable purpose. For example, if 20% of memory cards are used for music, the tax rate is set at 20% of what it would be if all memory cards were used for music. Besides, iPod might not be the best example: an iPod nowadays [apple.com] is a nearly-general-purpose handheld computer, not just a music player.

Greedy ****'s (4, Insightful)

DigitalSorceress (156609) | more than 3 years ago | (#36126634)

Just gotta get this out of my system... what a greedy bunch of ****suckers!

Ok, maybe some folks use SD cards to copy music, but the assumption that everyone's going to use them for that purpose is beyond stupid.

I own several SD cards and several CF cards and I've never ever put a single song or other piece of copyrighted work on any of them... well, ok, actually I have... I use them in my cameras to take pictures, so I put MY OWN copyrighted work on them.

I know obvious post is obvious, but these Canadian MPAA-Wannabees already get a tax on every blank CD and DVD sold in that country... I can't believe they were allowed to do that, and now they want more... Why don't they just tax brain cells since I might REMEMBER what one of their songs sounded like.

GARRHRRHHHH!!!!

Re:Greedy ****'s (2)

atchijov (527688) | more than 3 years ago | (#36126756)

Agree. And the fact that these days more and more people do not store ANY music at all, but instead stream it over internet makes it even more idiotic.

Re:Greedy ****'s (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36126794)

Facts are irrelevant when a large corporations pay politicians to write laws that give them money. I've never met anyone who put a song on an SD card!

Re:Greedy ****'s (1)

Hultis (1969080) | more than 3 years ago | (#36127018)

The tax actually applies to all memory cards, which means that it applies to the (usually MicroSD) ones in phones that people do put legally and/or illegally obtained music on. In other words this is only slightly more stupid than the really stupid law on CDs and DVDs.

Re:Greedy ****'s (1)

failedlogic (627314) | more than 3 years ago | (#36126832)

There aren't a lot of industries that can just go to the government either and get special taxes setup for them for consumer purchases. These ideas also remain hidden until they are just about to be passed.

My entire purchased @retail or Amazon CD collection (300+ CDs) is all backed up using rips in FLAC. Why? Sounds good. And I also have one of the few MP3 players able to play it. So my entire retail purchased CD collection also exists on Memory Cards. I'm quited peeved at this news. I started buying a bit on iTunes since better selection than physical copies but even then, are they going to tax my Operating System for being able to interpret all storage media to play their bloody songs.

Screw you Music Industry Lobby! I how ALL of you lose your jobs when artists go independent of your labels.

Re:Greedy ****'s (1)

statusbar (314703) | more than 3 years ago | (#36126926)

They have been collecting the tax on writable CD media for a long time - I was told that out of all the money that was collected so far from that levy, none of it has been dispatched to SOCAN [socan.ca] , which would be the appropriate place in order for the artists to be compensated.

Does anyone know if this is true or still true? Or has this money been dispatched to the places that they said they would?

--jeffk++

Re:Greedy ****'s (1)

kimvette (919543) | more than 3 years ago | (#36127080)

Screw you Music Industry Lobby! I how ALL of you lose your jobs when artists go independent of your labels.

"Artists" are in a catch-22 when it comes to the music industry: the labels are evil (see the music label "who owns who" chart and read "Some of your friends are already this fucked"/"The Problem With Music") but they have a near-monopoly on radio stations (they still engage in payola/pay-for-play or simply own the stations outright through holding companies), on ticket outlets, and so the advertising and distribution media you want to use are locked down pretty tight.

Going independent and retaining or re-acquiring ownership of your work is possible when you achieve the kind of success that The Beatles, Pink Floyd, Elton John, Aerosmith, Queen, and other uber-successful bands and artists have achievef, where YOU can call the shots with the record label and put a stop to their trashing your work by distributing it in ways you believe destroys artistic integrity,. but to achieve that level of success you first need to get your work known. You can do it the hard way and go on gruelling, life-consuming tours and hopefully gain some mass appeal at the grassroots level in clubs, or you can enjoy a minimal success pandering to true indie labels and college radio stations, or take the "easy" road and play ball with the labels, knowing they're ass-raping you up front through hollywood accounting, assigning a metric fuckton of debt to you, but if you're marketable enough (if you're a guy be a freak, or if you're a chick be willing to whore it up and let your tits hang out on stage) you might have a snowball's chance in hell of not only recouping the "debt" you've incurred, but achieve a decent income, and if you become a real hit with a couple of successful albums in a row, and have a strong following, you might be able to get enough clout to regain control of your work from the label, and instead assign distribution rights only, on specific media to the label, and reserve all other rights to yourself.

Playing ball with the labels is the only realistic way of getting even a small shot at stardom in the music business, aside from blind luck or the grace of god.

Cellular radio (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 3 years ago | (#36127154)

but [the major record labels] have a near-monopoly on radio stations

By "radio" do you mean all wireless transmission of music, or just the FM band? Anyone with a 3G data plan can listen to Internet radio in the car. Anyone without can listen to a webcast at home or work and record a webcast to listen to in the car.

Re:Greedy ****'s (2)

The Grim Reefer2 (1195989) | more than 3 years ago | (#36126930)

I own several SD cards and several CF cards and I've never ever put a single song or other piece of copyrighted work on any of them... well, ok, actually I have... I use them in my cameras to take pictures, so I put MY OWN copyrighted work on them.

Perhaps you should lobby for your own tax on memory cards to, or to collect a piece of this "copyright tax". Obviously you have proof the someone has used these cards for storing your material on. ;-)

Get to the root (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36127068)

Of course they're greedy -- that much is obvious. But the root of the problem is government failure. It is government and only government which holds the key to making this happen. I don't care who does the bribing -- if government accepts the bribe, then government is 100% at fault.

Please realize that incremental steps towards corporatism and authoritarianism like this one are made possible by a lack of strict limits on the size of government (in terms of both revenue and power over the people).

Well, well... (4, Interesting)

alexandre (53) | more than 3 years ago | (#36126644)

I'd rather pay 3$ per memory card than have a DMCA++ / ACTA laws enacted that just screws everything up!
You can't sue people who have paid a copying tax can you?

Re:Well, well... (1)

DigitalSorceress (156609) | more than 3 years ago | (#36126708)

yeah, but I think they get that AND they push for the punishment stuff too. They want it both ways. Their business model is becoming irrelevant... it was based on high barrier to entry into the music production, marketing, and distribution world.

The Interwebs has changed the game, but rather than find a way to make a living out of it in a way that adds some value to the world, the music industry seems to be having a giant temper tantrum and throwing a LOT of money around to buy the best legislation they can.

Re:Well, well... (2)

atchijov (527688) | more than 3 years ago | (#36126748)

Do not full yourself. They will charge you $3 AND then sue you (or rather sue 10K of Jon Doe's - and you may just end up one of those)

Re:Well, well... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36126918)

They can't sue you, this has already been put to the test in Canada back in 2004 I think.
There was a court case and precedent was set.

And next... (1)

Goose In Orbit (199293) | more than 3 years ago | (#36126646)

...paper - in case somebody writes down the music in score form

Re:And next... (1)

Gerzel (240421) | more than 3 years ago | (#36126912)

Why not tax brain cells and get right to where all the illegality happens?

People listen to music and make copies of it! They remember, and never pay royalties on their memories! The music industry is losing quadrillions every day of unpaid memory royalties!

Think of the poor starving artists who need to be compensated for their work or else you won't have any good music!

Unlike Europe - where this is outright ILLEGAL (4, Interesting)

FriendlyLurker (50431) | more than 3 years ago | (#36126650)

Where: 'EU court rules Spain's "digital copyright tax" illegal' [thereader.es]

The Court of Justice of the European Union (CJEU) today declared illegal any digital canon which is being imposed indiscriminately on all equipment and materials used for reproduction and not only that which presumably can only be used for private copying , as applied in Spain. Spain imposes a "canón digital", a small tax on all digital media (CD's, tapes, DVD's and associated equipment) which is given to the General Society of Authors for copyright payment in case the media is used to copy work.

Re:Unlike Europe - where this is outright ILLEGAL (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36126738)

This is interesting, because I beleive in the Czech republic, such a law still exists (and if I'm not mistaken, it also applies to printer paper...)

Re:Unlike Europe - where this is outright ILLEGAL (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36126824)

same in germany, I believe

Re:Unlike Europe - where this is outright ILLEGAL (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36127006)

Still active in Belgium. And it's not even a small tax over here. 50 DVD-Rs cost around 60 euros, where they used to cost around 20-40 depending on the brand.

Re:Unlike Europe - where this is outright ILLEGAL (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36127036)

No it is NOT illegal in the EU. Germany is one of the worst in this regard. We pay levies on blank CDs/DVDs/etc., other storage mediums (not just memory cards, e.g. HDDs, USB sticks), printers, PCs, mobile phones, recording equipment (e.g. CD burners), portable audio players, photocopiers and so on and so forth.

At least all these levies eliminated ANY moral qualms I would have had pirating music, movies and books. They took my money by force of law. It's only fair I take their products in return. Sure it may be illegal, but seriously, fuck them. I have no respect for unjust laws.

I still pay for all software I use since they are not part of this corrupt system.

Re:Unlike Europe - where this is outright ILLEGAL (1)

BenoitRen (998927) | more than 3 years ago | (#36127052)

Really? Because last I knew, there is still a similar tax on blank media here in Belgium.

Of course it makes sense... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36126652)

They want money and are using a nonsense excuse to rob the public(taking something that which is not yours or which you did not earn is robbery)

Re:Of course it makes sense... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36126712)

They want money and are using a nonsense excuse to rob the public(taking something that which is not yours or which you did not earn is robbery)

Common misconception. Robbery requires that you be present and they take it away from you. This is straight theft which doesn't require an in person transaction.

Robbery = in person theft (like mugging, armed robbery, etc.)
Burglary = entering your house (breaking in typically) and taking stuff while you aren't there.
Theft = taking stuff not in person, not entering your house, etc.

These are just examples: obviously you can burgle a business, etc. It just always bothers me when folks misuse those terms.

In consumers and political minds, SD = Cameras (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36126654)

The difference between approving a tax on CDs and a tax on memory cards will be the perception in the minds of those voting on it and in the minds of those who vote for the politicians.

CDs are perceived as music storage mediums, but SDs are perceived more as picture storage mediums.

Already it was a bad idea for a tax on CDs, but if the tax is applied to SD cards then it's an easy road to hard drives, cell phones with flash memory, thumbdrives and probably even Web hosting in general.

Google and Amazon won't have to get licenses for music storage, they'll be paying the tax anyways.

Re:In consumers and political minds, SD = Cameras (1)

MachDelta (704883) | more than 3 years ago | (#36127136)

We already had that fight - the courts here ruled that 'non-removable' storage (hard drives, embedded flash) or devices containing such things (iPods, PCs) are exempt from the tax. So this just seems like the CRIA trying to pick up any scraps it can.

Makes *less* sense (2)

sunderland56 (621843) | more than 3 years ago | (#36126678)

How many people copy music on SD cards? 99.9% of them are used in things like digital cameras. Other than a few VW owners (some models have a SD card slot in the dash connected to the music system) I don't know anyone who would.

Go ahead and tax iPods, which actually *are* used for copying music - but don't try and kill off the photography industry by adding useless taxes.

Re:Makes *less* sense (2)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | more than 3 years ago | (#36126844)

The law lags. I would guess - based on nothing more than anecdotal observation - that most pirated music (And probably most non-pirated purchased music too) ends up being played either by a computer, or on a mobile phone. Dedicated portable music players are actually getting less common now, as even the cheaper mobile phones include the same functionality.

Re:Makes *less* sense (2)

donaldm (919619) | more than 3 years ago | (#36126962)

How many people copy music on SD cards? 99.9% of them are used in things like digital cameras. Other than a few VW owners (some models have a SD card slot in the dash connected to the music system) I don't know anyone who would.

I am surprised they did not mention USB sticks or Memory Stick or XD cards. You are right most people would use some sort of music player to copy music to rather than use a card. If I want to play recorded (ie ripped) music in my car all I do is copy the appropriate files to my Android phone and play via my AUX connection to my car radio. The same is true for the iPhone.

Go ahead and tax iPods, which actually *are* used for copying music - but don't try and kill off the photography industry by adding useless taxes.

Actually any smart phone (and some not so smart) as long as it has some storage can act as a music player. To me this tax is crazy since most people use cards in cameras rather than copying music to them.

Makes even less sense (4, Insightful)

Junta (36770) | more than 3 years ago | (#36126680)

The CD tax is senseless, but if grading on a curve, the memory cards makes even less sense.

At *least* burning music to CD represents a larger share of what is done with blank media, so that people can pop portions of their collection into their car cd player (and nowadays to a less extent in other cd players). Of course they penalize everyone 'just in case' and even in the case of burning music to CD there are plenty of fair-use sorts of applications ('mix tapes', burning legally purchased music, etc), which makes it absurd.

In the memory card situation, mostly I see them purchased for cameras, game consoles, and general sneakernet of data. There isn't a huge ecosystem of music players that take memory cards as the primary medium. Must music lives on an iPod or cellphone and arrives on other stereo systems by way of bluetooth, aux jacks, or iPod dock connection. Sure, there are things that take usb hard drives as sources and primarily play music, but I think that's such a vanishingly small use of even those specific units as to render any sense of entitlement beyond absurd.

Re:Makes even less sense (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36127024)

"There isn't a huge ecosystem of music players that take memory cards as the primary medium"

Yes there is, Sandisk's Sansa series of players all have uSD slots, and they're even trying to sell pre-loaded SD cards with shitty Top 100 music. They are extremely good players too, mine is 4 years old and still works like brand new, and they all can play OGG and FLAC. So yeah, if people would stop sucking Steve Jobs off there would be a massive market for music players that use SD as their primary storage.

Re:Makes even less sense (1)

realityimpaired (1668397) | more than 3 years ago | (#36127220)

There isn't a huge ecosystem of music players that take memory cards as the primary medium

My last 5 cell phones all had a microSD slot, which was used for storing pics from the camera, and for storing media for the phone's built-in mp3 player.

only fair IF (2)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | more than 3 years ago | (#36126682)

everytime I make a .zip or .tar file, the music 'industry' pays me BACK.

the gall of the 'industry' to take what is essentially 99.9% data-only (NOT music) format and try to gouge 'usage fee' for it where its absurd beyond belief.

stop following their rules (like we even have to state this anymore). when the laws become bought and paid for by the rich, its time to start ignoring the laws.

you want us to respect the laws? make them respectable. we'll wait. until then, we'll do pretty much any damned thing we want (torrents, usenet, whatever).

grow up, and we'll treat you like adults. (isn't that a switch!)

Re:only fair IF (2)

Pi1grim (1956208) | more than 3 years ago | (#36126770)

It's not time to start ignoring the laws, it's time to start changing the laws.

Re:only fair IF (1)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | more than 3 years ago | (#36126888)

how's that working out for all of us?

its a non-starter. the laws - even less so, today - are not there for us. they are there for the powerful and actual owners.

you and I are seen as 'renters'. truly.

our votes do not carry any weight. its the lobbying that needs fixing. until then, voting is a scam; only for show to keep the masses sated in their ignorance.

Re:only fair IF (1)

donaldm (919619) | more than 3 years ago | (#36126988)

It's not time to start ignoring the laws, it's time to start changing the laws.

Unfortunately it is very difficult to change laws no matter how stupid or unfair once they have been passed by politicians.

Re:only fair IF (1)

bipbop (1144919) | more than 3 years ago | (#36127100)

Only if you're rich enough to buy them. No? Then good luck!

The price we pay for sanity (1)

mauriceh (3721) | more than 3 years ago | (#36126688)

In Canada this is the price we pay to prevent the criminalisation of our private music use.

Copying music for personal use is legal here and institutionalised.

Re:The price we pay for sanity (5, Insightful)

Tridus (79566) | more than 3 years ago | (#36126716)

No, in Canada this is the price we pay for "culture" industries being protected and coddled from reality.

There is no connection between this and music copying, at all. It's a cash grab. SD cards have as much to do with pirating music as video cards do.

Re:The price we pay for sanity (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36126956)

Depends... If you have a non-Apple media-player, it is in all likelihood using a replaceable SD-card for storage. This makes buying SD-card a fairly straightforward way to expand the storage of the device, either by upgrading it or by keeping multiple cards with different collections. If this wasn't possible, I have no idea what anyone would use a 32Gbyte or 64Gbyte SD-card for, it is an insane amount of storage for most digital cameras, but pretty neat for storing entire seasons of TV-series, or all the music you have ever had the chance to leech.

Re:The price we pay for sanity (2)

ColdWetDog (752185) | more than 3 years ago | (#36127056)

I have no idea what anyone would use a 32Gbyte or 64Gbyte SD-card for, it is an insane amount of storage for most digital cameras, but pretty neat for storing entire seasons of TV-series, or all the music you have ever had the chance to leech.

Video. The new thing in DSLRs is videos and even dedicated video cameras are using SD. 64 GB is a nice big number for video.

Re:The price we pay for sanity (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36127082)

Now you gave them an idea for another tax! I had to chuckle at the simile.

Re:The price we pay for sanity (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36126728)

So instead of the music industry bringing civil cases against individuals they have convinced the government to assume everyone is guilty and that they need to impose levies on anything that could possibly be used to infringe on their rights...

Sure sounds like a much better system to me.

Re:The price we pay for sanity (1)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | more than 3 years ago | (#36126860)

Why would that stop them bringing civil cases against individuals as well?

Re:The price we pay for sanity (1)

green1 (322787) | more than 3 years ago | (#36127148)

Because our laws at the moment give us the right to copy for personal use... don't worry, the government has promised to remove those rights as quickly as they can (I believe this is in their "100 day plan" from the election we had a couple weeks ago)

Re:The price we pay for sanity (3, Interesting)

MachDelta (704883) | more than 3 years ago | (#36127182)

Because up here the last time they tried, they lost and lost BAD.
BMG Canada vs John Doe resulted in the judge declaring file sharing was entirely legal! It was a sledgehammer to the balls for the music industry. It took a year for the Federal Court of Appeals to nix the previous judges ruling (while not making any judgement themselves), leaving the question of file sharing legality an open and unanswered question. That was six years ago. The Canadian music industry is waiting for copyright reform (probably coming in the next year) before they risk slamming their collective dicks in a door again. In the meantime they'll just soak up some media levy - it's cheaper than constantly hiring lawyers anyway.

Re:The price we pay for sanity (1)

Radtoo (1646729) | more than 3 years ago | (#36127078)

I guess in some roundabout way it makes sense for things like CDs and MP3 player devices. But this is supposed to be a tax on memory cards! There's a very small fraction of these being used in mobile phones, and whatever is being used for music often got paid for, again, through iTunes and co..

The real large bulk of usage is other data on mobile phones, as well as use in cameras. Is the entire software industry being recompensated, too? And how is that large fraction of the price of especially the smaller memory cards appropriate when most usage is NOT for music?

Re:The price we pay for sanity (4, Informative)

green1 (322787) | more than 3 years ago | (#36127138)

It is at the moment, but the Conservative government has promised to outlaw fair use as soon as possible. The copyright reform legislation died with the previous minority government, but now that they have a majority they have vowed to pass it as quickly as possible.

Somehow I doubt they'll repeal the levy once they repeal our fair use either...

What about Adult Content? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36126692)

I am writing a song. It sucks, but I think I should be compensated.

How do I go about getting some free money from people that may or may not copy it?

I have no proof, but I still think they should pay me.

Digital Cameras (4, Informative)

r_jensen11 (598210) | more than 3 years ago | (#36126700)

Aren't memory cards more commonly used in digital cameras than for music? I know that many phones now use memory cards for storage, but I'd have to imagine that more people have digital cameras, and multiple cards for said cameras, than people who have phones with memory cards installed....

Re:Digital Cameras (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36126768)

And I don't know about everyone else but I have a card in my phone... for my camera.

Re:Digital Cameras (1)

PixetaledPikachu (1007305) | more than 3 years ago | (#36127184)

And I don't know about everyone else but I have a card in my phone... for my camera.

Well, to be fair, almost all of Nokia's ExpressMusic phones storage come in the form of Micro SD cards.

Re:Digital Cameras (1)

garcia (6573) | more than 3 years ago | (#36126964)

I'm guessing with the surge of being able to add additional storage to many phones via SD, this is what they fear.

But yeah, I have never used an SD card for anything except my cameras.

if you can no longer compete (5, Insightful)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 3 years ago | (#36126706)

Get legislation enacted to guarantee your revenue stream.

Re:if you can no longer compete (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36126940)

If someone who owns a house can't compete with thieves who break in and steal his stuff, then get legislation enacted to protect him from his inability to compete.

Re:if you can no longer compete (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36126982)

steal

You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

Re:if you can no longer compete (1)

mattventura (1408229) | more than 3 years ago | (#36127254)

And you would protect him by making everyone else pay for what got stolen? By treating everybody like the thieves that broke into his house?

Also, I think your definition of competition is a little off. Running in a race is competition. Tripping another runner is anti-competitive. Breaking into a house is not competitive. Not to mention copyright "theft" does not carry the same implications as real theft, thereby making your analogy worthless.

Re:if you can no longer compete (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36127150)

Yup!

I'm waiting for the denouncement of this practice from the free-market capitalists, but they keep getting a sore throat as soon as they're ready to respond. Hypocrisy runs deep in this country, and mainly by those with something to lose. Namely, money.

In realted news (0)

countertrolling (1585477) | more than 3 years ago | (#36126754)

Canada is taxing the memory of those who don't have Alzheimers. If you don't pay up, expect a visit [blogspot.com] ...

Goddammit!!! RELATED! (0)

countertrolling (1585477) | more than 3 years ago | (#36126778)

Why doesn't spell check work in the subject field???

Re:Goddammit!!! RELATED! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36126830)

because your browser enables spell check only on multi-line fields

Re:Goddammit!!! RELATED! (1)

ForgedArtificer (1777038) | more than 3 years ago | (#36126972)

It's a subtle push for you to actually learn how to spell.

RIAA is stealing from independent artists... (5, Insightful)

xanadu113 (657977) | more than 3 years ago | (#36126766)

The RIAA is STEALING from independent artists, with this fair use tax. If a non-signed band uses CD-R's to record their music onto, they are paying a fair use tax.

The same people who claim we are stealing from bands by downloading music, are getting paid by bands who didn't sign any agreement with the RIAA or any record labels. Now WHO is stealing from bands...?

What's next, bailouts for record labels...?

First they came... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36126784)

First they came for the recordable CDs, but I didn't speak out because I didn't use recordable CDs.
Next they came for the SD cards, but I didn't speak out because I didn't use SD cards.
I am not sure what they are going for next, I didn't even read RTFA, but I am sure it will be even more ludicrous.

Seems like a slippery slope.

Re:First they came... (1)

Barbara, not Barbie (721478) | more than 3 years ago | (#36126862)

First they came for the recordable CDs, but I didn't speak out because I didn't use recordable CDs.
Next they came for the SD cards, but I didn't speak out because I didn't use SD cards.
I am not sure what they are going for next, I didn't even read RTFA, but I am sure it will be even more ludicrous.

Slashdotters are safe for now - the RTFA TAX ACT, (also known as the Murdoch-News Corp Entitlement Fund) only affects those who actually read the "fine" articles.

Two advantages of this: (4, Insightful)

benwiggy (1262536) | more than 3 years ago | (#36126812)

First:
So, presumably, by paying the tax, I can pirate as much music as I like! Excellent.

Second:
I've written and recorded a song. Where do I sign to get my share of the cash?

There is no cash for artists. (2)

raehl (609729) | more than 3 years ago | (#36126872)

The fund gets paid out to record labels, not artists. The best you can do is sell your copyright to a record label so they can get your share of the cash.

Next step (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36126816)

Let's tax The Cloud!

All that storage space, and a lot of providers (Amazon, Google...) are even inviting us to put music on them!

Hah (3, Interesting)

Windwraith (932426) | more than 3 years ago | (#36126818)

We got that in Spain. The thing ended up propagating to every multimedia device like photo cameras, HDDs and anything that can use removable memory. (and it's a large price difference!)
If you Canadians can stop it, this would be a good moment, before it spreads.

Re:Hah (1)

MachDelta (704883) | more than 3 years ago | (#36127204)

A tax on HDDs and other "non-removable" media or devices (read: iPods) was already smashed. This is just the CRIA trying to pick up table scraps.

A Video Resume for the music industry.. (1)

yossie (93792) | more than 3 years ago | (#36126840)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPgHbt0ODr4

What is in a name? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36126858)

1) it's not a music industry: it's a bunch of insanely greedy intermediaries who happen to exploit both sides: the buyer _and_ the author, transforming a good ol' song in a preciosity (maybe we come to see wars on a song -- God forbid!);
2) it's not a sale, they want to hand you just a license; a sale is where you get the object (CD) and it's your to use as you please; they want to regulate your use of your things, which you paid with the money you owned (IMHO, that borders a criminal act);
3) the minute they call it "intellectual property", the idea of property transference becomes viable... so they get another degree on the "screwing the author" scale: they purchase the song from the author and the intermediaries themselves become "authors" (so as to say) -- if this is not a MAFIA, I don't know what is... (btw, that's the way things work with patents, too: the inventor becomes cattle and actually is less protected with patents than before).

I lol at such "taxes" -- why not a "person" tax? You are born and your parents must shell out a tax for all the copying you'll do in life! Much simpler, huh? (cynicism)

Fine ... (2)

gstoddart (321705) | more than 3 years ago | (#36126876)

Just so the Canadian music industry understands ...

I use my memory cards for my camera and my cell phones, and I use my USB sticks for work, and I use blank DVDs to make backups ... add another copyright tax (don't call it a levy) on my ability to have electronic data, and I will hand around copies of MP3s like they're candy.

I will get my money's worth out of this *&$#( levy -- if you continue the default position that I am pirating your music (which I'm not doing now), then my default position will be that since I've already paid for your music, I am bloody well entitled to it. I won't even draw the line at Canadian music -- I'll just assume you're tithing to the RIAA.

If your business strategy is to charge all of us for the music that we're neither listening to nor pirating ... well, I will pirate it just because I've already paid you for it.

In short, if you keep ripping me off, I'll start ripping you off -- and I won't feel even a little bad about it. Is that what they really want?

License to download as much as I like (2)

Xaximus (1361711) | more than 3 years ago | (#36126916)

If I'm presumed guilty, I'll gladly take this as a license to download as much as I like. It's kind of a great deal!

Following the election... (1)

ForgedArtificer (1777038) | more than 3 years ago | (#36126960)

I don't know about everyone else, but I'll certainly be writing my new MP about this.

Bad idea (1)

Blackout for Hungary (1970198) | more than 3 years ago | (#36126980)

Here in Hungary a similar tax was introduced by Artisjus (Hungarian RIAA). You have to pay it for CD-s, DVD-s, flash drives, and memory cards, etc... They even sued Nokia for not paying this tax for the built-in memory in cell phones. The result: Black market. A whole industry was built to import these stuff from Slovakia without paying any tax neither to Artisjus, neither VET.

Are lawmakers supporting it? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36127016)

Is there any chance of this actually becoming law, or is the CPCC just saying they want it?

Stop Feeding Them (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36127020)

Stop buying Music
Stop feeding them

Re:Stop Feeding Them (1)

yossie (93792) | more than 3 years ago | (#36127092)

I stopped consuming music years ago.
I am happy with the hundreds of hours of music I already own and generally find little new music I like. I get my new music fix from the radio, pandora, and the like. The only music I actually acquire are the free weekly downloads from itunes.
I stopped primarily due to DRM and crazy ass licensing. Less DRM now, but my new habits around this are established.
Our copyright/IP system is entirely broken and getting more so every day. Something has to break, I am sitting on the sidelines waiting to see what goes first - the last of our civil liberties, or the insane system we have built.

Taxation without representation (1)

mark-t (151149) | more than 3 years ago | (#36127070)

Considering the government wants to lock down digital works so that a consumer would not even be legally able to freely engage in the copying that this levy is supposed to be for, in an age where the amount of works stored in a non-digital format is rapidly diminishing, there is absolutely no possible way that this proposal is not taxation without representation. Not merely taxing somebody on something that they don't actually do (because they could otherwise still have an ability to exercise the privilege at any time), but taxing somebody on something that they aren't even ALLOWED to do.

Next thing ... (1)

PPH (736903) | more than 3 years ago | (#36127074)

... they'll be coming after my blank wax cylinders.

You kids stay off my lawn!

Great News (1)

future assassin (639396) | more than 3 years ago | (#36127160)

I just have to set up a photography business , set up a galley and then get tin on this racket as people might be using their camera to take photos of my photos and print them and then I'm out of money? Does what I wrote make sense, well no but that's my point.

There will be no end to this (1)

erroneus (253617) | more than 3 years ago | (#36127198)

The "industry" has made false claims of doom with every new technology from the player piano to tomorrow's next thing. They were successful in killing DAT and limiting other tech, having laws written and more and still they are not satisfied. They have taxes on media that may or may not be used to transport content that may or may not be theirs and still they want more.

Legislators need to wake up to the endless greed. They are rich and powerful, these media industrialists, because they are making enormous profits. They are able to influence legislators and hardware makers because they are making such enormous profits. When their excuse is "doom on the industry" is historically false and their "disadvantage" is demonstrably false by their own actions and use of resources, it's time to see them for what they are and stop.

It's time for the pendulum to swing. Their greed knows no ends and so far, the consumer's submissiveness knows no bottom.

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