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Groklaw Torch Handed To Mark Webbink

Soulskill posted more than 3 years ago | from the onward-and-upward dept.

The Courts 47

eldavojohn writes "A month ago we read a Eulogy for Groklaw, but now PJ has announced that Groklaw will not be shutting down. Instead, it is now Mark Webbink's Groklaw 2.0. If you don't know who he is, Webbink is a member of the board of the SFLC and was General Counsel at Red Hat. Legal FOSS news will continue to flow."

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And what the fuck will groklaw do ? (-1)

unity100 (970058) | more than 3 years ago | (#36149918)

really ? he had served good service to community, and, he has been successful apparently because he was enthusiastic and good about it (otherwise its hard to succeed well in such matters), and now he is quitting, to do ... what, really, knitting ? billiards ? buggy races ?

Re:And what the fuck will groklaw do ? (1)

bbqsrc (1441981) | more than 3 years ago | (#36149926)

She.

Re:And what the fuck will groklaw do ? (-1, Troll)

Frosty Piss (770223) | more than 3 years ago | (#36149974)

She

"P.J." is and was *always* a pen-name for a variety of folks who worked directly for, or were paid by a consortium headed by IBM.

"P.J." is no more a "she" than "Clippy".

Groklaw served a tremendous service to the Open Source community, and arguably had an impact on the outcome of the SCO farce.

But let's be honest: "P.J." has never been proven to be a real person.

Re:And what the fuck will groklaw do ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36149982)

But let's be honest: "P.J." has never been proven to be a real person.

And this proves the opposite? You state that there's no proof P.J. is a real person but do you give any proof for P.J. being 'a variety of folks who worked directly for, or were paid by a consortium headed by IBM.'?

Put your emotions down and think it through. (-1, Troll)

Frosty Piss (770223) | more than 3 years ago | (#36150226)

It's a very unpopular opinion, strewn with irrational hate filled vitriol from the cult followers.

But it's the truth: There is no real proof that anyone named "P.J." exists, and it is a perfectly reasonable speculation that "P.J." was / is in fact a consortium of paid shills for IBM.

Of course I agree that Groklaw has been very useful, perhaps exceptionally useful, in assisting in the dispatch of the vile SCO, certainly this is without much question \.

But, many people are blinded by ideology and can not rationally explore the question of "P.J." and what is the actual reality of this "person".

The FACT that Fox News or any of the major "news" organizations never showed up on "her" doorstep is pretty solid evidence that there really is no "P.J.".

No one escapes the camera of Fox News. No one. Fox News respects no one's privacy, so where were the tapes of some blow-dried talking head pounding on the door of "P.J."?

We didn't see it because it was not possible, because "P.J." didn't and does not exist.

Now, I'm 100 percent "on board" with the idea that Groklaw played a pivotal - and positive - role in dispatching SCO.

But that fact has little to do with the reality of "P.J.".

Re:Put your emotions down and think it through. (2)

bug1 (96678) | more than 3 years ago | (#36150258)

Your saying PJ isnt real because you havent seen her on TV ?

Seriously ?

Re:Put your emotions down and think it through. (-1, Troll)

Frosty Piss (770223) | more than 3 years ago | (#36150312)

Your saying PJ isnt real because you havent seen her on TV ? Seriously ?

Essentially yes, that's what I'm saying. Keep in mind the nature of American News Media. It's highly unlikely that if PJ had been "real" that "seh" would have escaped the camera for as long as Groklaw has been around.

The main-stream News Media ***DOES NOT*** respect a subject's request for "privacy".

As they say, "pictures, or it didn't happen".

Again, I highly respect Groklaw, and what they have done for Open Source and their contribution in putting Darle McFucker and SCO out of business. But can we have some serious discussion about who is behind Groklaw?

Re:Put your emotions down and think it through. (2)

bug1 (96678) | more than 3 years ago | (#36150550)

Maybe they just wernt interested in stories 99% of the population are clueless about. How many legal bloggers _are_ shown on American News Media ?

I think skepticism is generally a good thing, but if you question everything you have nothing left to believe in, except 'cogito ergo sum'.

If people in the community have said they have met her, then that should be good enough unless there is reason to question their word.

Re:Put your emotions down and think it through. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36150740)

Just do a image search for "pamela jones groklaw".
Any photos of pamela jones that look like the avatar?

pics, or...

Re:Put your emotions down and think it through. (1)

bug1 (96678) | more than 2 years ago | (#36151424)

Do an image search for the "easter bunny", what does it prove ?

So how about you post some photos of yourself, because your words mean nothing if we cant see your face /sarcasm

Re:Put your emotions down and think it through. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36152132)

No photo of the real easter bunny = easter bunny doesn't exist.
No photo of the 'real' pamela jones = pamela jones doesn't exist.

If one would do an image search of my nick(not Anonymous Coward, my real nick) one would find photos of some old McLaren Can-Am cars, some other random stuff and my avatar, which is a grayscale photo of my face.
If one would do an image search of my real name you will find photos of a lot different people including a me.

If one can find photos of me who have done nothing in my life, one would expect to findphotos of pamela jones who have done a great deal of geeky stuff.

Re:Put your emotions down and think it through. (1)

icebraining (1313345) | more than 2 years ago | (#36151850)

except 'cogito ergo sum'.

Actually, that's been disputed.

Re:Put your emotions down and think it through. (1)

bug1 (96678) | more than 2 years ago | (#36151972)

Actually, that's been disputed.

I did say _believe_

Re:Put your emotions down and think it through. (1)

peragrin (659227) | more than 2 years ago | (#36151460)

Or maybe the fact that she used a false address, denied repeated media interviews, and only showed her face once or twice annoys you.

Yes there is video footage of PJ on one of the linux talk shows I forget which and how long ago but it is there.

Not everyone seeks fame some of us avoid it like the plague that it is.

Re:Put your emotions down and think it through. (1)

UnknowingFool (672806) | more than 2 years ago | (#36152252)

Essentially yes, that's what I'm saying. Keep in mind the nature of American News Media. It's highly unlikely that if PJ had been "real" that "seh" would have escaped the camera for as long as Groklaw has been around.

First of all not all individuals like being in the media. Second, how much coverage of this lawsuit has occurred in the media. In the beginning you were lucky to read a few paragraph stating the basic facts. The media barely covered SCO losing the Novell case in the end. It's doubtful that the media would investigate the identity of PJ when they barely care to write a paragraph at the end. The only people obsessed with PJ's identity were SCO and their shills.

As they say, "pictures, or it didn't happen".

If that's your standard, prove to me you are not a team of SCO shills. I want your birth certificate and DNA posted here on slashdot.

Again, I highly respect Groklaw, and what they have done for Open Source and their contribution in putting Darle McFucker and SCO out of business. But can we have some serious discussion about who is behind Groklaw?

Why does it matter? Was Groklaw wrong about any of the issues? Did they misrepresent facts of the case? Do you also want the identity of Seal Team 6 as well?

Re:Put your emotions down and think it through. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36150924)

and it is a perfectly reasonable speculation that "P.J." was / is in fact a consortium of paid shills for IBM.

It might be. But the burden of proof is on you to PROVE P.J. is not a real person (and is a consortium of people paid by IBM blah blah blah).

Re:Put your emotions down and think it through. (4, Insightful)

timholman (71886) | more than 2 years ago | (#36151546)

But it's the truth: There is no real proof that anyone named "P.J." exists, and it is a perfectly reasonable speculation that "P.J." was / is in fact a consortium of paid shills for IBM.

SCO's little mind game worked on you, didn't it?

During the trial SCO made a claim to the court that P.J. was not a real person, but an IBM shill. IBM vehemently denied that claim, again to the court.

If you've had any experience with the law, one thing you'll have learned is that judges hate is to be lied to. I guarantee you that SCO had some private investigators check on P.J. Had any evidence existed that P.J. was an IBM shill, I also guarantee you that SCO would have presented that evidence to the court with trumpets blaring. What better way to prove to the judge that IBM was the bad guy?

On the other hand, it would have been pointless for SCO to publicly prove that P.J. was a real person. It would have made them look like paranoid idiots, and it would only have helped IBM. So SCO said nothing more, and instead just let the accusation itself continue to taint P.J. It's one of the oldest dirty tricks in the book, and it clearly worked on you.

Is P.J. a real person? No doubt in my mind. Is "Pamela Jones" her real name? Who knows? Pen names and pseudonyms are as old as reporting itself. But if P.J. was an IBM shill, I am certain that SCO would have presented ironclad proof long ago.

Re:And what the fuck will groklaw do ? (1)

TheInternetGuy (2006682) | more than 3 years ago | (#36150506)

OF course there is a Pamela Jones, see here. http://www.zdnet.com/news/letter-to-the-editor-no-ibm-groklaw-connection/134733?tag=content;search-results-rivers [zdnet.com] And here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pamela_Jones [wikipedia.org] (Would wikipedia ever lie?)

Re:And what the fuck will groklaw do ? (2)

sconeu (64226) | more than 3 years ago | (#36150126)

Steven J. Vaughan Nichols disagrees with you.

Re:And what the fuck will groklaw do ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36150130)

Did you hear... President Obama wasn't born in the US?

Re:And what the fuck will groklaw do ? (1)

bbqsrc (1441981) | more than 3 years ago | (#36150140)

This does not change the grammatical fact that the correct pronoun for a feminine proper noun is in fact "she". Your argument is invalid for so many reasons.

Re:And what the fuck will groklaw do ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36150754)

Your argument is invalid for so many reasons.

Many many reasons, he was just trolling.

Some people obviously do not benefit from that site, although I would argue society does...

Re:And what the fuck will groklaw do ? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36150276)

Let's be honest: Glenn Beck has never been proven to not have raped and murdered a young girl in 1990.

Re:And what the fuck will groklaw do ? (2)

simoncpu was here (1601629) | more than 3 years ago | (#36150326)

But let's be honest: "P.J." has never been proven to be a real person.

Ladies and gentlemen, I bring you proof on the existence of PJ [youtube.com] . Please check out the description of the video.

Re:And what the fuck will groklaw do ? (3, Interesting)

mwvdlee (775178) | more than 3 years ago | (#36150494)

But let's be honest: "P.J." has never been proven to be a real person.

Neither have you, therefore you are not a real person and your post is likely the work or an automated trolling algorithm.

Re:And what the fuck will groklaw do ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36150580)

But let's be honest: "P.J." has never been proven to be a real person.

Posting on an offtopic thread and, thus, staying offtopic.
Even it would be so, the (alleged made-up) persona chose to pose as a she. Is it so hard to accept/respect this?

Re:And what the fuck will groklaw do ? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36150700)

She

"P.J." is and was *always* a pen-name for a variety of folks who worked directly for, or were paid by a consortium headed by IBM.

Trollish, my friend. Here [eweek.com] :

Oh, and by the way, Pamela Jones really does exist. Ive met her.

PJ said she had other projects... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36150830)

Nah, it's only one person. She seems a wee bit paranoid at times, but the writing style is unmistakable.

Actually, I'm glad it's been passed on to a real lawyer now. She always treated certain companies she liked *cough*Apple*cough* like she had been hired as part of the team. I don't think she ever really was, mind you, but it always seemed like she was quick to take sides and would never reconsider.

What will she do? I'm reading between the lines quite a bit, but my guess is that she'll do anti-nuclear activism. She's pretty adamantly against it and she said something about how Fukushima really affected her. I'm reasonably, if not completely, sure that she does not and has not ever lived in Japan.

Re:PJ said she had other projects... (1)

rubycodez (864176) | more than 2 years ago | (#36152932)

"Seemed" a bit paranoid? You forget that stalker creep Maureen O'gara's and internet trash rag Linux Business News slimy actions.

Re:PJ said she had other projects... (1)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 2 years ago | (#36153988)

No kidding. She had every reason to stay on the other side of the wall. The behavior of the SCO shills (including Daniel Lyons, that vile repugnant piece of shit, no matter that he later semi-apologized) towards PJ was ridiculous and abusive.

Is that a joke or are you on drugs? (2)

dbIII (701233) | more than 2 years ago | (#36151126)

That Amityville horror idiot that pretends to be a journalist stalked PJ and her mother. You can't do that to clippy.

Re:And what the fuck will groklaw do ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36149984)

Yes, because doing one thing well means limiting yourself to this one thing.

WARNING: This post contains large amounts of sarcasm. It should not be read and/or considered by people who lack Sarcasm Receptors in their heads. Doing so might cause discomfort, contempt and unwarranted self-importance.

Re:And what the fuck will groklaw do ? (1)

_Sprocket_ (42527) | more than 2 years ago | (#36153730)

I think it's safe to say PJ is going to do at least one thing - get the hell away from the limelight.

Spicy (3, Insightful)

Shadyman (939863) | more than 3 years ago | (#36150074)

The FOSS Must Flow!

The queen is dead. (1)

leuk_he (194174) | more than 3 years ago | (#36150534)

long live the king.

Re:Spicy (1)

KiloByte (825081) | more than 2 years ago | (#36151092)

And it does. Unlike closed projects, the only way for a FOSS one to die is if everyone loses interest.

Another example: when the creators of Encyclopaedia Dramatica decided to shut it down and replace it with a commercial piece of crap, several forks popped overnight even though there was no good way to recover the data. These forks soon coalesced into one [encyclopediadramatica.ch] , with nearly all data recovered already. And it's more vibrant than it was before, even with serious efforts to censor any news about the revival -- try for example the Wikipedia article [wikipedia.org] , admin-protected with a gag on anyone claiming that ED is not dead.

Re:Spicy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36151822)

No they die if there is no one who is interessted _and_ skilled enough _and_ has the time and ressources to maintain and develop the project. That's much much more limited than just "if no one is interested". There are plenty of things that plenty of people would be interested in but there is no sufficient overlap between those who are interested, and those who are skilled and have time to spare.

Re:Spicy (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36154024)

Unlike closed projects, the only way for a FOSS one to die is if everyone loses interest.

Which has the highly unfortunate side effect that many FOSS projects go on way after they should've died because someone has too much ego invested or a delusional assessment of self-importance (see: Groklaw).

Groklaw is a good chunk of the reason why the SCO drama dragged on as long as it did. I hadn't seen the eulogy to Groklaw so I looked through it and came away with a sense of people trying to rewrite history. PJ didn't say Groklaw existed because of SCO and Microsoft, she said it existed because she wanted to learn how to blog and this was what came up and it took a life of its own. She steadfastly maintained it was about everything to do with free and open source software, NOT just SCO. (Ironically, I'm arguing against what this poster [slashdot.org] said even though they're right - the sham that it was not a personal thing to do with SCO was pretty transparent, but PJ and geeks around the world blindly maintained the fiction.)

The debacle around PJ censoring comments was just another sad commentary of the whole hypocrisy of the thing. And geeks around the world bought into it, puffed up the piece, and the media was too lazy to assess the merits and instead blindly followed along like sheep, heaping wholly undeserved praise and awards on Groklaw. What a waste of time and effort.

sony? (1)

Gravis Zero (934156) | more than 3 years ago | (#36150218)

are they going to be covering any of the crazy stuff Sony does? seriously, Sony could use the bad press.

Microsoft opens crowdsourced legal site "CrockLaw" (1, Funny)

David Gerard (12369) | more than 3 years ago | (#36150592)

O'GARA UFO FIELD, Armonk, Monday (NTN) — With the final humiliation of the SCO Group and the retirement of Pamela Jones from Groklaw, Microsoft has stepped in with sponsorship to fill "a much-needed gap."

CrockLaw will be "a place where lawyers and geeks could explain things to each other and work together, so they'd understand each other's work better," said Sandy Gupta of Microsoft's Open Solutions Group. "We need to crowdsource the work of patent suit production. The attack from Linux is in full swing, and Microsoft's clear ownership of the number 17 must be vigorously defended."

"It is crucial to foster openness and create an environment where a choice of standards is available," said Steve Mutkoski, Senior Standards Strategist. "Specifically, a choice of our standards."

"Also," added Gupta, "we can gather leads on tracking down Mini-Microsoft."

Volunteers have gathered to the site from across Microsoft, as employees desperately try not to be in this year's bottom 10% with 50% of their co-workers.

The site runs on SharePoint, with site members' licence fees being generously discounted by the company. The site has "cracked six figures" on Alexa.

The "PJ" department at IBM issued a sigh and requested an oil change before manufacturing a new birth certificate for President Obama and seeding the skies with alien chemtrails in preparation for Project Blue Beam.

Photo: The PJ-bot celebrating its victory [newstechnica.com] .

Re:Microsoft opens crowdsourced legal site "CrockL (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36151108)

David Gerard: Asshole, spammer, British, married to a fat bitch, liar, friend of Roy Schestowitz, owner of shock sites, and all around stupid prick. Fuck you, David.

Re:Microsoft opens crowdsourced legal site "CrockL (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36151240)

A hit! A palpable hit!

This made my day. (2)

sabernet (751826) | more than 2 years ago | (#36152514)

This is joyous news indeed. Thanks for hanging in there, Groklaw :)

Important information missing from the article (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36153234)

Will I keep my low Groklaw ID?

Thank you PJ!!! (1)

Picass0 (147474) | more than 2 years ago | (#36153620)

I somehow missed the news last week about PJ stepping down. She finally put on her red dress and dancing shoes. After seven years she's more than earned it.

As a regular reader during the first couple years of SCO vs. The World it was nice to have a news/analysis source that I could absolutely trust.

Webbink is awesome. (1)

DdJ (10790) | more than 2 years ago | (#36156040)

Webbink is being put in charge? Awesome!

When Red Hat acquired my company back like 11 years ago, I worked with him to try to get our patent into a pool to be used in a GPL-like manner.

I don't think that particular case worked out (we never spent the resources to finish shuffling my patent through the last parts of the process, at least not while I was still at Red Hat), I can tell you from personal experience that he was working on that sort of thing, with sincerity, that long ago.

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