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The FSF's Campaign Against the Nintendo 3DS

Soulskill posted more than 2 years ago | from the terms-of-disservice dept.

Nintendo 187

Max Hyre writes "The Nintendo 3DS's terms of so-called service, and the even more grotesquely-misnamed privacy policy, make it clear that you are in the service of Nintendo. Specifically, anything you do, write, photograph, or otherwise generate with the 3DS is Nintendo's possession, for them to use however, whenever, and for as long as they want. On the other hand, if you do something they don't like, they're prepared to turn your device into a doorstop — and you gave them permission when you started using it. And if you have a child's best interests at heart, don't give it to anyone too young to know to never use her real name, type in an address or phone number, or take any personally-identifiable photos. They might, at best, end up in a Nintendo ad."

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Excuse my ignorance... (0)

Hermanas (1665329) | more than 2 years ago | (#36163854)

but what does the summary have to do with the Free Software Foundation?

Oh, now I see, the linked website is apparently a campaign of the FSF, and the banners you can add to your site are hosted on fsf.org.

Re:Excuse my ignorance... (2)

aBaldrich (1692238) | more than 2 years ago | (#36163870)

DefectiveByDesign.org is run by the FSF You can read the tiny little letters at the bottom of the page.

Re:Excuse my ignorance... (4, Insightful)

xaxa (988988) | more than 2 years ago | (#36163914)

DefectiveByDesign.org is run by the FSF You can read the tiny little letters at the bottom of the page.

Or you can read the great big letters at the top of the page: "Defective by Design.org A campaign by the Free Software Foundation."

Cannot know for sure (0, Flamebait)

aBaldrich (1692238) | more than 2 years ago | (#36163860)

"Brick Nintendo before they brick you". Come on!
The FSF has taken many extreme fundamentalist decisions in the past, how can I trust that they are reasonable today? Because they say that "User Content" is anything you do on your 3DS. Wouldn't that be called user activity?
It would be nice to have another article, with a more balanced approach.

Re:Cannot know for sure (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36163896)

"By accepting this Agreement or using a Nintendo 3DS System or the Nintendo 3DS Service, you also grant to Nintendo a worldwide, royalty-free, irrevocable, perpetual, non-exclusive and fully sublicensable license to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, perform and display your User Content in whole or in part and to incorporate your User Content in other works, in any form, media or technology now known or later developed, including for promotional or marketing purposes. (Chapter 1, Nintendo 3DS End User License Agreement)"

Re:Cannot know for sure (3, Informative)

realityimpaired (1668397) | more than 2 years ago | (#36163926)

Not legal in many jurisdictions, and not enforceable. Check into your local laws, but most countries are sane about that kind of thing: specifically you cannot preemptively sign away your copyright on things you haven't even created yet.

That said, I wouldn't buy the handheld anyway. My cell phone is good enough for casual gaming on the bus, and I have better things to do with my time than sit around playing video games... if I'm not at home, I'm either travelling or doing something. If I am at home, and the mood to play a video game strikes me, I have much better systems available to me than a handheld.

Re:Cannot know for sure (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36164052)

specifically you cannot preemptively sign away your copyright on things you haven't even created yet.

Nonsense. That's the basis of most employment contracts, recording contracts, publishing contracts etc.

I, for example, work for "insert massive international technology conglomerate" and they own the rights to ALL work I do during the time oft he contract including work I _MAY_ do in the future. That was the terms of my employment contract - and they can in fact do _anything_ they see fit with _anything_ I do during the instigation and termination of the agreement (it is a matter of debate whether this includes work I do during company hours or my own projects at home.

So, I'm fairly certain they can write that into a contract and make it enforceable... The problem is that this is a "license" not a contract which brings up the thorny issue of enforcement.

You would be on good, or at least interesting, legal grounds by saying that you did not agree to the terms provided. The "contract" provided by Nintendo, at least in UK terms, could be seen as abusive as it can not be terminated (unlike my employment contract). I find it unlikely that the clause "or using a Nintendo 3DS System" would be valid in that it means that you are bound by action (not contract) to an agreement not provided with the device you are using - that is to say you would have no idea that you had agreed to the license or even know what the license terms are just by playing Metroid... kinda stupid. Well, those are just random thoughts - I'm not sure anything like this has actually shown up in court so the number of possible ways to defend yourself and the the "provider" to defend themselves is currently a bit of an unknown.

At least the agreement is non-exclusive!

I have no idea why Nintendo have produced such a draconian license for, what is essentially, a toy.

I'm not an lawyer but I have to work with dozens and dozens of damn software licenses and contracts every day - it's tiresome.

Re:Cannot know for sure (0, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36164424)

What nonsense? The GP is correct in that in most sane countries the company you work for can't do that. In mine they're not even allowed to try.

(Welcome to Sweden, btw)

Re:Cannot know for sure (2)

uglyduckling (103926) | more than 2 years ago | (#36164980)

I'm inclined to speculate that there might, just might, be a difference between the terms of a contract of employment, and a license provided with a hardware/software combination. I'm not even sure that the catch-all clauses in employment contracts are enforceable for inventions or creations that don't directly relate to the business of the employer, but I'm too lazy/busy to look up case law on that one.

Re:Cannot know for sure (1)

gslavik (1015381) | more than 2 years ago | (#36165328)

Except when you are paid to create a work of art, your work is considered "commissioned." Therefore, you are the author, but the copyright is with the company. At least in USA.

Re:Cannot know for sure (5, Insightful)

PopeRatzo (965947) | more than 2 years ago | (#36164108)

Not legal in many jurisdictions, and not enforceable. Check into your local laws, but most countries are sane about that kind of thing: specifically you cannot preemptively sign away your copyright on things you haven't even created yet.

Legal or not, enforceable or not, this is hostile behavior on the part of Nintendo.

It really is time that companies pay a price for being hostile to their customers, don't you think?

And history has shown that legal or not, when a powerful corporation's legal department wants to go after someone who doesn't have endless resources, there is a de facto enforcement.

Re:Cannot know for sure (3, Insightful)

L4t3r4lu5 (1216702) | more than 2 years ago | (#36164190)

Not legal in many jurisdictions, and not enforceable. Check into your local laws, but most countries are sane about that kind of thing: specifically you cannot preemptively sign away your copyright on things you haven't even created yet.

Legal or not, enforceable or not, Nintendo can afford more lawyers than you.

FTFY.

Re:Cannot know for sure (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36165050)

Not legal in many jurisdictions, and not enforceable. Check into your local laws, but most countries are sane about that kind of thing: specifically you cannot preemptively sign away your copyright on things you haven't even created yet.

Except you're not signing away your copyrights to Nintendo. You're granting them a "let them do whatever they please" license to your content. And thanks to the word "non-exclusive", you're still free to do whatever you wish with your own content. You still retain the copyright and can do anything you'd like as the copyright holder. However, Nintendo also has a license to do whatever they want as a licensee. Still shitty terms, but it's not the same as handing your copyright over to them.

Re:Cannot know for sure (1)

DrXym (126579) | more than 2 years ago | (#36164152)

There is easy way to test this clause. Take a picture of your balls in 3D and see if it turns up in any Nintendo promotional material.

Re:Cannot know for sure (1)

Reservoir Penguin (611789) | more than 2 years ago | (#36164562)

The quoted does not require you to give up your copyright, I believe it can only be done as work for hire. The copyright stays with you, but Nintendo gets a license to use your work in a manner describe. Same thing happens when a writer signs a contract with a publishing house - they keep their copyright, that must be displayed on a published work in the usual places and grant the Publisher a right to print, distribute, sell, sub-license.

the horrible effects of homogenisation (5, Insightful)

Hazel Bergeron (2015538) | more than 2 years ago | (#36163954)

extreme fundamentalist decisions

I know that we're reached a point in humanity where culture, politics and lifestyle have globalised and we're accelerating toward a totalitarian's wildest dreams on groupthink... but I don't think we're at the point that the FSF should be called "extreme fundamentalists".

Examples of extreme fundamentalism:
- Obey this book or you go to Hell - since you're ignoring the book, let me help you there!
- Science provides the answer to every question - including the unfalsiable ones!
- An eye for an eye - so let me burn out your eyes!
- All property is good - I kill you if you're starving and you take some of my food store!
- All property is bad - I want your hammer to smash stuff up!
etc.

Examples of positions probably founded in some ideal which are not extreme fundamentalism, and which may apply to the FSF:
- Don't grant anyone the right to do anything its wants with any information it can obtain off you.
- Don't grant anyone the privilege to destroy your stuff at will.
- Expose people who try to do either of the above in order to spread awareness and modify behaviour.
- Oh, while you're here - if it doesn't harm you, how about sharing instead of hoarding?

Re:the horrible effects of homogenisation (2)

grumbel (592662) | more than 2 years ago | (#36164014)

but I don't think we're at the point that the FSF should be called "extreme fundamentalists".

"Extreme fundamentalist" is certainly the wrong word to use, but on the other side the tone that the FSF uses comes across as kind of lunatic and thus regularly misses exactly the people they want to target. The point that the FSF makes here is a very real one, but its hard to look at that page and not just quickly dismiss it as just some crazy people doing their little thing, especially for people who might have never heard of the FSF before (aka most 3DS buyers).

Another thing that bothers me is that the FSF stuff almost comes across as negative, so 3DS is evil, iPad is evil, Kindle is evil, etc. Great, but what hardware is actually ok to buy? Why is there still no hardware database of the good stuff that doesn't limit my rights? Basically whenever I am going out to buy new hardware I have that issue and there is no easy answer to be found what restrictions a particular device might have, all you can do is Google a lot and hope that you find anything, but that's just plane time consuming, especially when you want to compare multiple different products.

moron. (2)

unity100 (970058) | more than 2 years ago | (#36164054)

on the other side the tone that the FSF uses comes across as kind of lunatic

what is lunatic is a company daring to be able to claim the rights to your name, private info.

Re:the horrible effects of homogenisation (4, Interesting)

Hazel Bergeron (2015538) | more than 2 years ago | (#36164082)

Well, the FSF are neither hip nor slick, and I guess politics is at the point where no-one really engages in straight-talking rhetoric - so those who try to "say it like it is" in the style of mainstream politicians even three decades ago are now dismissed as "kind of lunatic". I'm not sure how to solve this problem, but I don't know that being as bad as the rest of them is the solution either.

But certainly a campaign like this needs to illustrate viable alternatives. The FSF has, of course, had a big hand in the "make viable alternative" goal, but
in this particular case it does seem to be telling you what's bad rather than what's better.

Re:the horrible effects of homogenisation (5, Insightful)

PopeRatzo (965947) | more than 2 years ago | (#36164148)

but on the other side the tone that the FSF uses comes across as kind of lunatic and thus regularly misses exactly the people they want to target.

Maybe the FSF is just ahead of its time. I think people's perspective regarding the behavior of these large corporations regarding intellectual property is starting to catch up.

Why is there still no hardware database of the good stuff that doesn't limit my rights?

Think about it. The answer may be embedded in the question.

It has become industry standard to attack privacy and personal ownership. Which is a good reason that FSFs tone is often negative. Maybe it's time to exert the power of the consumer to change the direction in which corporate hegemony is going.

I'm sorry if that sounds "lunatic" to you. These are crazy times.

Re:the horrible effects of homogenisation (1)

grumbel (592662) | more than 2 years ago | (#36164308)

Maybe it's time to exert the power of the consumer to change the direction in which corporate hegemony is going.

Yes, but thats exactly my point. If you want to get the consumers to listen, you need to inform them, not confuse them with weird campaigns and "all hardware is evil" messages that will just make them turn away. People that are buying 3DSs are not giving them up just because the FSF says so, they might not even care if it has DRM at all, they might however listen to invasion of privacy and other issues. Make that the center of the campaign, get them interesting and tell them a bit about the problems of DRM along the way.

Re:the horrible effects of homogenisation (3, Insightful)

internettoughguy (1478741) | more than 2 years ago | (#36164120)

Science provides the answer to every question - including the unfalsiable ones!

Actually science provides falsifiable answers only to unfalsifiable questions. No one should try to answer a false question.

What's wrong with fundamentalism? (1)

jth4242 (2025482) | more than 2 years ago | (#36164226)

Your second example is my favourite and yes, the human mind is capable of answering any question about reality, even though of course it will only answer a finite number of them in a finite timespan. A false/true question that can't have false as answer has true as an answer, that's Aristotle's law of the excluded third. We know that for thousands of years. Sometimes it's discovered that the question wasn't a false/true question to begin with, as it turned out for the continuum hypothesis. But usually the statement to the contrary is either a thinly veiled attempt of telling me that I'm insane, or a meaningless triviality decoupled from the origianl question's intent. And ususally it's both.

You are very right in giving this as an example of fundamentalism, as that's exactly what's wrong with the world: There's nothing wrong with Islam, it's extremism. There's nothing wrong with communism, it's just the extremists. There's a lot to capitalism, but some people's stance is just too extreme.

And you know why? "All property is bad" isn't good for you: You want to keep yours. "All property is good" isn't good for you: You want to steal theirs.

So you are wise: You are above all those rigorous ideas and principles and see that everything is relative, there are always many things to consider, two sides of the coin. You are sophisticated, educated, much unlike those simple-minded fundamentalists for which there's only good and evil.

But know that a member of a robber gang is evil *even if* he moves within the ideological center of the gang's irrational superstitions.

Re:What's wrong with fundamentalism? (1)

Jerom (96338) | more than 2 years ago | (#36164892)

Is the correct answer to this yes/no question "no"? :)

Re:Cannot know for sure (1)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 2 years ago | (#36163958)

I'm not sure what flavor of "balance" could make the language of Nintendo's ToS any less absurdly draconian.

Is a lot of it probably unenforceable? Yeah, possibly, if you've got a hundred grand and a year to drop on fighting it; but that will hardly be relevant to most users of the device, especially if its terms are(on devices not modified with sufficient cleverness) enforced technologically.

Re:Cannot know for sure (1)

unity100 (970058) | more than 2 years ago | (#36164046)

name ONE extreme fundamentalist decision of fsf from the past, moron. or stop talking out of your ass.

Re:Cannot know for sure (4, Funny)

migla (1099771) | more than 2 years ago | (#36164076)

That's right. Extreme fundamentalist freedom- and democracy-mongers!

They should take a little bit of fascism with their democracy, for a healthy balance... ;)

Re:Cannot know for sure - Nintendo Shill (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36164208)

Shill easily spotted defending Nintendo draconian extreme end user license agreement user has no right of cancellation other than to not use a simple toy or give up all copyright rights to personal private content everything goes to Nintendo.

There thats balanced the search engine karma gods happy now?

rgds

Dissapointing (2)

Sinthet (2081954) | more than 2 years ago | (#36163862)

But not surprising. Sometimes, I think the FSF is a bit too idealistic with calling for every program to be open source and have the "essential freedoms", but in this case, they are totally in the right. I for one, am severely disappointed in my childhood's favorite company.

Hmm (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36163866)

Is there any way I could interpret this as Sony's fault?

Re:Hmm (3, Funny)

WhirlwindMonk (1975382) | more than 2 years ago | (#36163946)

Well, if Sony hadn't so royally screwed up it's security on the PS3 and the PSN, Nintendo wouldn't have felt the need to lock down their newest system this hard! They learned that the only way to stop people from hacking their consoles is to cause the consoles TO CATCH FIRE AND EXPLODE if you do something wrong. But they realized that might end badly, so they went with the next best option and just decided to brick the things. Sony, on the other hand, is trying to perfect localized disintegration technology for the PS4 so they can just vaporize it the moment it hears the words "Linux" or "GeoHot."

This is standard...But can you imagine the future? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36163882)

Thats's bad but what did i agree to when i "signed" that xx page agreement for itunes, twitter, gmail, facebook, flybuys, etc

Re:This is standard...But can you imagine the futu (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36164284)

Thats's bad but what did i agree to when i "signed" that xx page agreement for itunes...

Muahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Negative campaigns (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36163888)

The FSF seems to have given up both advocating and developing free software as their primary field of activity. As of late, they seem to be focusing primarily on negative campaigns, designing would-be witty negative logos, and uselessly protesting. All the talks they give dont focus on the FSF itself but on somebody else. I have a (bitter) feeling that more and more they are evolving into some kind of Westboro Baptist Church of the software world.

Re:Negative campaigns (2, Interesting)

u17 (1730558) | more than 2 years ago | (#36163976)

It's sad but it does seem to be the case. Maybe they have become disillusioned after years of trying to raise awareness and finding that the common folk just didn't care. If they speak about the importance of free software principles, their words will fall on deaf ears. But if they aggressively raise these red herring issues that the average person can relate to, they will get some much wanted attention. It's hard to tell whether they will win any permanent mind share this way.

Even though Stallman is absolutely right about free software, the message of bright red colours, screaming slogans and extreme statements does paint the FSF in a bad light and will probably put many people off.

FSFe seems to be much more reasonable: maybe the two are playing a game of good cop/bad cop?

Re:Negative campaigns (2, Insightful)

ledow (319597) | more than 2 years ago | (#36164050)

I have to agree. Where's my Gnu Call software to replace Skype now that there's a massive impetus to move away from MS-owned Skype? We already have all the components in place and it's a "high priority" thing for the FSF apparently but yet - nothing. SIPWitch has been around since 2008 in 0.0000000.0.000.001 releases and there's no sight of how it will replace a Windows binary, how it will become as ubiquitous as they want it to, how well it actually works when scaled up, there's no push to use it or test it or hack on it etc.

I've always considered the FSF "the petition kid". They like to stand up and shout whenever they see an injustice but, overall, they don't get much done towards showing a better way. Most GNU projects, with the exception of a handful of "huge" projects like gcc, are on the backburners most of the time - hell, the one that pretty much started it all (HURD) "is still some way from being ready for daily use". I always worry when a project I need is on http://savannah.gnu.org/ [gnu.org] because my experience is that most things on there tend to die quicker than they would elsewhere.

Want to impress me, FSF? Stop faffing about moaning about idiots who voluntarily sign away their lives without checking, and concentrate on a couple of your main core and high-priority projects that are sadly neglected (or even in some cases non-existent).

Re:Negative campaigns (1)

Bert64 (520050) | more than 2 years ago | (#36164248)

Yes, someone badly needs to create a simple replacement for skype...

Something simple for users to install and run, no need to mess with firewall rules etc...

Perhaps a cross between jabber/xmpp and sip...
Online communication is performed like email, where anyone can run their own server for a given domain and users have a choice of providers they can sign up to.
Bridging to regular phones on the other hand, you can select from any one of many SIP providers to route inbound and outbound calls for you... Choose the one that provides the best and cheapest service, and choose independently of your online address.

Make a simple installer that makes it easy for users to choose their providers, perhaps ask a few simple questions like "what destinations do you want to call" and then choose the provider with the cheapest calls to the destinations the user calls.

Re:Negative campaigns (1)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 2 years ago | (#36164598)

Easier said than done, as is the case with a lot of these things. It's easy enough to figure out what the basic requirements are, however, writing all that code is a whole other thing. There's aren't a lot of people out there with the capabilities to write really good software. And the ones who do have the capabilities usually have quite a bit of work on their hands already. Unless you can find a corporate/philanthropist sponsor to dedicate expertise and money to your project, it will be really hard to build a quality system that Joe user will want to use.

Re:Negative campaigns (2)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 2 years ago | (#36164366)

The FSF does advocacy, not code. I contribute to a project that had a request for contributors on the front page of the FSF site for about a year (which netted us a total of 0 patches). The FSF will happily say that something is a priority project, but that just means that they think that you should spend your time on it. They won't pay for people to work on it.

We occasionally get Stallman complaining that we're using the LGPL, not the GPL, and trying to force us to move to LGPLv3 (not going to happen - several downstream projects are GPLv2-only, and LGPLv3 is not GPLv2-compatible), but that's the closest that we come to having any contributions from the FSF. We don't even get much support from the rest of the GNU project - bugs that prevent us from compiling are not classed as release blockers by the GCC team.

Re:Negative campaigns (1)

kiwix (1810960) | more than 2 years ago | (#36165010)

Where's my Gnu Call software to replace Skype

We have Jabber. It supports voice and vidéo, and there's a user-friendly client provided by Google for our friends who still use Windows.

Re:Negative campaigns (4, Informative)

icebraining (1313345) | more than 2 years ago | (#36165438)

Where's my Gnu Call software to replace Skype now that there's a massive impetus to move away from MS-owned Skype?

http://www.gnutelephony.org/index.php/GNU_Telephony [gnutelephony.org]

GNU Telephony is a project to enable anyone to use free as in freedom software for telephony, and with the freedom to do so on any platform they choose to use. We also wish to make it easy to use the Internet for real-time voice and video communication, and in fact for all forms of real-time collaboration. Finally we wish to make it possible to communicate securely and in complete privacy by applying distributed cryptographic solutions. Our goal is to enable secure and private real-time communication worldwide over the Internet that is free as in freedom, and is also free as in no cost too!

Re:Negative campaigns (0, Troll)

jth4242 (2025482) | more than 2 years ago | (#36164066)

The voice of Stallman's church has to get shriller to keep his herd of gnus together. Competition is fierce in the world of irrational sects, and especially these days, where people are getting more and more disillusioned with ideologues of any creed, are not looking good for the professional activist. The FSF also faces the problem that a lot of the late innovation came from greedy egomaniacs rather than grass-roots do-gooders a little bit too obviously. To put it differently, what has Stallman got to offer against Jobs but more frantic screaming?

Unsurprising (5, Insightful)

RogueyWon (735973) | more than 2 years ago | (#36163890)

Time to burn some karma, I guess...

There's this strange perception around some parts (particularly around here) that Nintendo are somehow "more ethical" or "consumer-friendly" than the other console manufacturers. This overlooks the fact that Nintendo are the people who normalised console region locking (and who are still trying to push and extend it even now, when Sony and MS have decided they're not interested any more), cracked down on homebrew whenever they can and put out consoles which don't even give so much as a tiny whiff of an "OtherOS" or "PS2 Linux kit" walled garden. In fact, going off their track record, they'll even try to sue you if you have a job they don't approve of and make a post on your blog saying you like one of their games (though I seem to remember they did apologise to the young lady in that particular case after it sparked an outcry).

Ok, they've probably got a way to go until they beat the Sony CD-rootkit fiasco (which didn't actually stem from Sony's gaming division anyway). But in pretty much every other respect, it's hard to say that they're any better than Sony - and I'd personally say that they're more anti-consumer than MS's gaming division (who don't seem particularly evil these days, even if they do occasionally do "inept" or "stupid" over something like Games for Windows Live).

I suspect Nintendo get a free pass from many due to a combination of nostalgia and the fact that they were the industry's underdog for two console cycles. One could perhaps draw parallels with Apple, if one really, really wanted to burn karma. It's not always correct to assume that the underdogs are any more ethical than the.. erm... overdogs. Reflexively and uncritically back the underdogs in every case and you may find yourself in a very uncomfortable position when they actually break through (feel free to insert Egypt/Libya comments here as appropriate to your own political persuasion).

Re:Unsurprising (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36163940)

Let them do what they want.. Nintendo, Sony, etc. are all companies... and they make money... end of story

if i care i use an emulator to play their shitty games... but i don't care.. because QUAKE III:ARENA played with a gamepad almost gave me cancer...

now i'll read the article... maybe.. nah. i'm kidding..

Re:Unsurprising (4, Insightful)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 2 years ago | (#36164396)

Nintendo, Sony, etc. are all companies... and they make money... end of story

A company can make money by acting in their customers' interests. Using the fact that companies exist to make money as an excuse for their behaviour is a cop out. If customers reward companies that treat them well, and avoid companies that don't, then companies that behave badly will make less money. This will only happen if customers are made aware of how companies behave, and that's the aim of this campaign.

Re:Unsurprising (1)

DMiax (915735) | more than 2 years ago | (#36163972)

The barrier they seem to not cross yet is deception: you can know their stance on any of those counts. This is in line with previous behaviour, even if a step up in creepiness.

Anyway I would be surprised if something like this holds in court for various reasons, first of all as for all TOS/EULAs: when can I refuse the agreement before or after you consider the sale final? What happens if I refuse? However this will probably never be tested, as usual, and the practise will continue.

Your unsurprisingly stupid comment (-1, Flamebait)

thetoadwarrior (1268702) | more than 2 years ago | (#36164012)

There's this strange perception around some parts (particularly around here) that Nintendo are somehow "more ethical" or "consumer-friendly" than the other console manufacturers. This overlooks the fact that Nintendo are the people who normalised console region locking (and who are still trying to push and extend it even now, when Sony and MS have decided they're not interested any more), cracked down on homebrew whenever they can and put out consoles which don't even give so much as a tiny whiff of an "OtherOS" or "PS2 Linux kit" walled garden. In fact, going off their track record, they'll even try to sue you if you have a job they don't approve of and make a post on your blog saying you like one of their games (though I seem to remember they did apologise to the young lady in that particular case after it sparked an outcry).

This comment is all kinds of stupid.

Nintendo has had more region free gaming across the board than any other company they've competed again. Their portable systems never had any region locking which has allowed me and others to buy Gameboy and DS games from across the world. They did introduce region locking on the DSi download games but that is certainly no worse than MS or Sony.

Nintendo hasn't really ever been that hard on the homebrew scene. In fact the guy doing the no$gb emulator has even been selling his tools for gameboy development to anyone and Nintendo hasn't bothered him. He now even supports the DS. Nintendo does obviously crack down on people sharing roms but that's not homebrew. That's just cheap people.

Nintendo does well because their business model is sensible. They make money on their hardware. They also offer things that everyone wants. MS fanboys need to realise that not everyone wants to play as a big fat space marine or some other "extreme" character doing the same damn thing in every sequel while spurting out god awful dialog that sounds like it was written by the 13 year olds play the game.

Nintendo also has a web browser letting you choose which websites you visit unlike Microsoft who have their online world locked off tighter than anyone else and then have the nerve to charge you to have the right to access to twitter and facebook where as those things are free with Nintendo. I can read slashdot, surf for gentleman's entertainment or visit any other website with my Wii. You can't do that with MS.

So I'm not seeing how you feel Nintendo is worse than the competition. Your comment is uneducated fanboy verbal masturbation at best and not surprisingly all the other little uneducated xbots gave you a +5 interesting for spouting crap.

Re:Your unsurprisingly stupid comment (5, Informative)

RogueyWon (735973) | more than 2 years ago | (#36164080)

The 3DS is region locked. First handheld ever to be so. Every Nintendo home console since the year dot has been region locked. Sony ditched region locking for games on the PSP and PS3. The 360 has region locking, but while it used to be mandatory for certification, MS leave it up to the publishers these days and most of them don't use it. Earlier handhelds such as the Gameboy, GBA and DS were probably not region locked because it was simply too much hassle to put the extra gumpf needed for it into the handhelds at the time while keeping size etc down. And not only does Nintendo region lock, but they also have a paternalist, authoritarian approach to which games can come out in which regions - witness The Last Story getting locked as Japanese-only, despite the success of previous Mistwalker games in the west.

I have no particular brief for MS. I own 360, a PS3 and a Wii (as well as a PSP, a 3DS and a high-end gaming PC). I like my 360 - and I like my PS3. Admittedly, Sony are in my bad books at the moment because I've just had to change my credit card thanks to them (which does tend to grate a bit). I don't tend to beat-up on them in the long term, though, because there are always plenty of others to do that. While at the same time, Nintendo do a lot of other things that are really, really bad (and if you are in Europe, then region locking is really, really bad) and generally seem to get away unscathed - indeed, with a little halo.

I've also got no idea why on earth you think that I just want games full of space marines. A quick glance at my posting history will show that games I've written nice things about lately include Valkyria Chronicles and Ar Tonelico Qoga, both of which have a distinctly non-space-marine aesthetic. In fact, Halo bores me rigid (though I do have a soft spot for Gears of War, largely because it's just so ridiculously over the top).

The absence of a browser in the 360 is an oddity, I'll admit. I've never really understood why they never put one in, given that the Wii and PS3 both have them (though the Wii's is borderline unusable and the PS3's is only marginally better). But to be honest, a browser is pretty low on the list of things that most people want from their consoles. Decent online multiplayer functionality tends to rank a bit higher on the list - and has yet to appear on any Nintendo console.

Just saying.

Re:Your unsurprisingly stupid comment (1)

DrXym (126579) | more than 2 years ago | (#36164182)

Nintendo has had more region free gaming across the board than any other company they've competed again. Their portable systems never had any region locking which has allowed me and others to buy Gameboy and DS games from across the world. They did introduce region locking on the DSi download games but that is certainly no worse than MS or Sony.

PSP games weren't region locked and neither are virtually any PS3 games. IIRC one region locked title was a special edition of Stranglehold which had a copy of Hard Boiled the movie on it which had distribution issues. I'd add that you can purchase content from any region on PSN as well.

So it isn't the case they're better than Sony is, they're distinctly worse. Not to say Sony won't do the same thing in time with the NGP of course but I expect they'd create more problems than they'd solve by doing it.

Re:Your unsurprisingly stupid comment (1)

RogueyWon (735973) | more than 2 years ago | (#36164338)

The general direction of travel with Sony is away from region locking. The PS1 and PS2 were fully locked, the PSP and PS3 are not locked for games (besides that one example you name, which I believe was accidental). Sony's preferred HD video physical medium (Blu-Ray) supports region locking and some studios use it, but the proportion of region-free BDs out there is far higher than the proportion of region-free DVDs ever was. I would be very surprised (and cross) if NGP games were region locked.

The rationale for region locking is not strong. The "different languages" issue is just FUD - there's been an international trade in books for centuries and in music for decades and in those cases, buyers have proven perfectly capable of making sure that they buy stuff in the right language. Regional pricing issues within the developed world are also a silly justification; after all, if it costs you more to sell a title in a particular region due to distribution costs, taxes or whatever, then those costs should also apply to consumers importing a product from another region. So, for example, if I import a game from the US to the UK, the price I pay in shipping costs tends to outweigh the marginally lower RRP of the game (depending on where the currencies are) in the US.

For years now, the real justification for region locking has been the hope on the part of the entertainment companies that if they can find the right price point (far lower than in the developed world), people in the big emerging markets like China and India will actually buy their products rather than pirating them. This obviously involves the kind of huge price differentials where reverse-importing really could become a serious problem (why do you think Japan was put in the same DVD region as Europe, rather than the rest of Asia?).

Most companies, particularly Sony, have, I think, now realised that this is a pipe-dream. No matter the price-point, they are not going to get mass-sales in those markets. In China in particular, you're up against consumers who would rather be "patriotic" and support a domestic pirate-merchant than a foreign corporation. Once this pipe-dream has evaporated, there's relatively little point in not doing away with a system that drives up your manufacture costs and annoys consumers for no other useful purpose.

Nintendo, I suspect, cling to region locking because it is something that fits well with their corporate ethos. They like control. They like to be able to say "Japan can have this, but we don't think those nasty Americans or Europeans are clever enough for it". And that really, really winds me up.

Re:Your unsurprisingly stupid comment (1)

DrXym (126579) | more than 2 years ago | (#36164462)

How can the general direction of Sony be region locking when the current generation is considerably more liberal than the ones that preceded it?

As for Blu Ray region locking, that is a function of the studios & distributors demanding it. Movie rights are hideously complex and some distributors use locking to stop movies from leaking outside the region they have rights to distribute into. This seems more prevalent on European / Art house movies than mainstream productions. Where issues don't exist, the movie is usually region free. The one exception is Disney and I suspect their reasoning for region locking has more to do with how they stagger releases. For example Tangled has been out in the US for a while but won't appear in Europe on DVD / BD until the end of May. As it happens virtually all Sony discs (with the exception of distribution issue ones) are region free.

Re:Your unsurprisingly stupid comment (1)

RogueyWon (735973) | more than 2 years ago | (#36164536)

I think you misread my first line. I said the general direction of travel with sony is *away* from region locking. So we're actually in agreement.

Re:Your unsurprisingly stupid comment (1)

DrXym (126579) | more than 2 years ago | (#36164966)

Sorry you're right, I should have read it more carefully.

Who's the Real Fan Boy? (3, Interesting)

eldavojohn (898314) | more than 2 years ago | (#36164420)

This comment is all kinds of stupid.

No, it's a fairly common viewpoint among rational Nintendo customers. But it does omit Nintendo's battle with pirates [escapistmagazine.com] . I think the DS and its latest incarnations is a neat little device and so I purchased a certain cartridge for it recently for $5 from some Chinese site. Unfortunately upon visiting the site to retrieve the latest firmware for their cart, I noticed that they were also hosting movies and roms for the latest games (of all regions) in their file directory tree. This is reality. You might not see it here but you can walk down the street in some Asian nations and pick up every game for the DS on a tiny little cart for very little money ($50?) [desmume.com] . On the other hand, I want to tinker with what I paid for [double.co.nz] ! My device? Then I'll run what I want to run on it.

Nintendo does well because their business model is sensible. They make money on their hardware.

So that's interesting because if they make money on their hardware, why do they care what I do with it after I buy it? Why don't they market it as a gaming/development platform? Why don't they just release all their tool chains for everyone to use to develop on their systems if they already make money on the hardware? I mean, you'd probably sell more platforms that way, right? Why do I need to pay some absurd amount of money for a developer's license and a kit to play with them? Perhaps because their business model also relies on a walled garden and though they may make money on the console, the real money comes from sales of games for that console. I think if you had the numbers, you'd see that their profit model is not a whole lot different than Sony or MS. Everyone plays that game.

They also offer things that everyone wants. MS fanboys need to realise that not everyone wants to play as a big fat space marine or some other "extreme" character doing the same damn thing in every sequel while spurting out god awful dialog that sounds like it was written by the 13 year olds play the game.

Having just played through Beautiful Katamari and Rapala Bass Pro Fishing on my 360 last night, I have to question this statement (not that fishing games don't exist for the Wii). I think your statement works well generically. Observe: (MS|Nintendo|Sony) fanboys need to realise that not everyone wants to play as a (big fat space marine|big fat Italian plumber) or some other ("extreme"|"cute") character doing the same damn thing in every sequel while spurting out (god awful dialog|It's a me, a Mario|PikaPikachu) that sounds like it was written by the (13 year olds|racists) play the game.

So I'm not seeing how you feel Nintendo is worse than the competition. Your comment is uneducated fanboy verbal masturbation at best and not surprisingly all the other little uneducated xbots gave you a +5 interesting for spouting crap.

I think the key here is that the three big names have their ups and downs. Why on earth do you act like there are no "downs" with Nintendo? If price is important to you, go with Nintendo. The Wii was the first of the three I bought. If graphics are important to you, go with the PS3. If online FPS is important to you, go with the XBox 360. If offline multiplayer is important to you, go with the Wii. Etc, etc. I own all three. And I play all three. Your post ironically makes you look like the fan boy and RogueyWon look like a well tempered gamer. Some of your acclamations for Nintendo are more than questionable ...

Anything with offline MP and indie games? (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 2 years ago | (#36164788)

If offline multiplayer is important to you, go with the Wii.

Both offline multiplayer and the ability to play indie games are important to me. What should I choose?

Re:Anything with offline MP and indie games? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36164862)

If offline multiplayer is important to you, go with the Wii.

Both offline multiplayer and the ability to play indie games are important to me. What should I choose?

XBox 360 with Kinect. I hate to say it but that's the unfortunate reality. And you will have to get the indie games on the XBox Live Marketplace meaning Microsoft points. They are the cheapest entry fee ($100) to distribute widely. But if you look at magazines like Indie Game Magazine [indiegamemag.com] they actually have many pages featuring how to spend your monthly MS Points on XBox Live.

Currently unable to receive money (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 2 years ago | (#36164822)

They did introduce region locking on the DSi download games

DSi game cards are region-locked too.

Nintendo hasn't really ever been that hard on the homebrew scene.

Other than lawsuits against companies like Lik Sang and the companies making R4-style cards? What about system updates specifically to uninstall The Homebrew Channel on Wii? And given the phrasing in Nintendo's developer qualifications [warioworld.com] , I don't see Nintendo making anything like Microsoft's App Hub or the iPhone developer program any time soon.

In fact the guy doing the no$gb emulator has even been selling his tools for gameboy development to anyone and Nintendo hasn't bothered him. He now even supports the DS.

I tried to buy a copy of the NO$GBA debugger [emubase.de] , but "This recipient is currently unable to receive money."

Re:Unsurprising (1)

Windwraith (932426) | more than 2 years ago | (#36164576)

On the region lock thing, they actually made the 3DS region locked. That console is officially useless unless you live in the US or Japan.
Good for the FSF, Nintendo needs a reprimand in form of low sales or high piracy rates, they need to be returned to reality. With a bang.

Re:Unsurprising (1)

Netbrian (568185) | more than 2 years ago | (#36164642)

I'm a big Nintendo fan, but I don't harbor any major illusions regarding Nintendo's control freak tendencies. To me, the major difference is that they have far fewer opportunities to abuse their position than the competition. They don't have other major product divisions (so no chances of a Blu-Ray or rootkit fiasco), nor do they have a horribly robust online service to try to get its tentacles into your life.

Re:Unsurprising (1)

RogueyWon (735973) | more than 2 years ago | (#36164808)

Yes, I think that's right. Nintendo spent 2 generations as the "also rans" and even in the Wii generation have failed to turn their huge installed base into the kind of cultural dominance that Sony saw with the PS2 (because they targetting the wrong market segments). When your market position is poor, it doesn't really matter how control-freaky you are - to most consumers, it doesn't matter as you have no influence. Apple benefitted from this for years, then suddenly the ipod, iphone and ipad got big and people started to notice (belatedly) that however bad you thought Microsoft were for locking down their OS, Apple were umpteen times worse.

The Sony rootkit thing was completely unjustifiable by any measure. I felt a bit sorry for their gaming division at the time - they clearly hadn't been involved in the rootkit fiasco but the PS3's launch certainly took flak as a result of it. In fact, the PS3 at-launch was a pretty "ethical" piece of kit for a console - easy-to-install OtherOS features, backwards compatibility, no region locking etc. Sadly, Sony seemed to decide that their rootkit guy should be running their games division - hence of those big three pluses that the PS3 launched with, only "region free" is still standing.

And Microsoft - I have serious issues with what they've done on the OS side over the years, but I find it hard to pick on something truly evil that their gaming division has done. Shutting down the Flight Simulator series is the closest I can come. They entered the console market following the lead set by others (eg. Sony and Nintendo region lock, so we will region lock) and have generally tended in a more liberal direction since then, albeit slowly. The RROD was colossal incompetence (and while MS Gaming don't do "evil" as such, they can do "incompetent" as well as anybody else), but they did do a good job of compensating customers, for the most part and at the end of the day, the company itself ended up the only real loser from it.

it's a fairly standard "terms and conditions" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36163924)

It's nothing to get your panties in a bunch about...this is typical legalese jargon that comes standard with pretty much everything electronical these days. Why is this surprising? Oh I get it, nobody reads these things anyways. Apparently in this day and age, nobody knows that if you buy a piece of software, before even unwrapping it you owe your first born to the company who owns the most patents on many standard functions said software implements. Welcome to hell. I thought you were already comfortable. You weren't screaming before. Why start screaming now?

I recently pondered getting one (2)

vadim_t (324782) | more than 2 years ago | (#36163942)

Now I'm definitely not doing it.

I'm actually one of the apparently few people who really likes 3D tech of all kinds, and could have possibly bought it just for that (I don't really play games much anymore). Still I figured it could be fun to play with.

But this crap sucks all the enjoyment out of it. If I'm not going to have control over what I buy, then I'm not going to buy it at all.

Sure, but ... (1)

damn_registrars (1103043) | more than 2 years ago | (#36163956)

What does Nintendo get from this that the federal government doesn't already have on you (which they may be able to get through a FOIA request)?

Re:Sure, but ... (1)

MysteriousPreacher (702266) | more than 2 years ago | (#36164350)

FOIA requests concern data held by the government - not data held privately (such as the Nintendo 3DS parked under your television). The FOIA is only useful if the government already has your data. Besides, privacy exclusions limit the information that can be disclosed. An FOIA request doesn't grant ownership of the requested data. It's not as if the USPS can request a copy of the song you wrote last week on your 3DS in order to sell it to MCA.

Re:Sure, but ... (1)

damn_registrars (1103043) | more than 2 years ago | (#36165240)

The FSF is specifically concerned about users giving their own identifying information to Nintendo through a 3DS. However the government already knows who you are, where you live, who you've worked for, when you were born, etc. Plenty of companies have already shown how easy it is to get that information from the government and do whatever you want with it.

If, on the other hand, you are creating new data on an internet-connected gaming device, I would suggest you might want to look at new platforms for that purpose. There are better options than something that small and that easily compromised.

Re:Sure, but ... (2, Insightful)

FatAlb3rt (533682) | more than 2 years ago | (#36164698)

If it's no big deal, damn_registrars, please post your name, address, and telephone number here.

Good luck with that (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36163960)

There's a certain social network that owns your soul too. And mankind is 500 million souls too dumb.

This is a general problem (1)

Errol backfiring (1280012) | more than 2 years ago | (#36163968)

It is not specific to Nintendo, Sony, or whatever company. The problem is that they can put whatever in the "terms" (which are only shown after the sale) and that for some incomprehensible reason some "law" systems abide extreme corporate fantasies instead of protect from them.

Re:This is a general problem (5, Insightful)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 2 years ago | (#36164000)

The extra problem, with modern electronic devices, is that the absurd terms can often be enforced automatically, which makes them hard for anybody without significant technical knowledge to avoid, and hard for anybody without significant legal backing to seek redress for after the fact.

The practice of printing crazy shit vaguely grounded in a wet dream of copyright law on packaging goes back at least as far as Edison cylinders. However, an Edison cylinder wasn't going to phone home to the mothership and automatically enforce the terms whenever it got within range of an internet connection. If you did something in breach of the shrinkwrap EULA, the burden was on them to find out and sue you. Now, many of the terms can be enforced automatically, and it is on you to demonstrate that you were wronged in some legally actionable way and that the clickwrap is unenforceable.

In this case, Nintendo appears to be claiming the right to hoover up, and use for any purpose, basically anything stored on the hardware, and to brick the hardware if they don't like its state. Both of these activities would be quite easy to do automatically. It may not be entirely true that "possession is nine tenths the law"; but starting from the position where the opposing party has already done unto you, and you have to fight to keep them from getting away with it is not a pleasant business...

Sounds like FUD (2)

mentil (1748130) | more than 2 years ago | (#36164004)

There's little data you can create on a 3DS using built-in software and purchasable games. It's mostly just pictures and StreetPass data. StreetPass data is already broadcast promiscuously to every other 3DS you come near, so it's hardly going to be considered 'private information' by the owner (or shouldn't, if they have any sense).

Nintendo collecting this information and using it for anything public and that anyone might object to would be foolhardy, as they'd have to navigate privacy laws. Even aside from COPPA etc., minors are legally unable to sign contracts, and that includes clickwrap EULAs. Nintendo would have to obtain written consent from the (potentially minor) players in order to use their pictures or other personal information. Aggregated game statistics are something that noone is likely to object to being publicly disseminated, even if the legal basis for its collection is murky/invalid.

There is a built-in web browser but I'm skeptical that anyone would do serious web content creation from a 3DS and care that Nintendo could theoretically lay claim to it.

Friend takes a picture... (4, Insightful)

Wallslide (544078) | more than 2 years ago | (#36164020)

Sure, the person who owns the 3DS might have agreed to the terms, but what if a friend comes along and takes a picture using the device? They haven't agreed to allow Nintendo to use their picture.

Re:Friend takes a picture... (2)

ElusiveJoe (1716808) | more than 2 years ago | (#36164312)

what if a friend comes along and takes a picture using the device?

Then Nintendo is allowed to harvest your internal organs. You should better read the license agreement.

Re:Friend takes a picture... (1)

dreemernj (859414) | more than 2 years ago | (#36164798)

Would they need to do that? In the US at least, if I take a picture of a random person on the street, the picture is mine. I can sell it to whomever I want without getting the subject's consent. If I don't get their consent and the picture ends up in an ad campaign, I'm sure they could sue for some money, but Nintendo has the lawyers to fight those battles.

And that's assuming the subject isn't underaged. I'm pretty sure in that case you would need the parent's permission.

But even then, the person that agrees to the TOS is responsible for anything done with it. Nintendo probably assumes an adult will be agreeing to the TOS. So I guess if a picture of an underaged person was used in an ad campaign, the adult that agreed to the TOS would be the one to get sued, not Nintendo, since that adult is the one that took the picture knowing Nintendo could use it that way.

yarr, blame the pirates (1)

CheshireFerk-o (412142) | more than 2 years ago | (#36164022)

Nintendo and makers of games for the DS line lost out on billions of dollars to easier-then-windows flashcarts. This kind of user monitoring is what they came up to combat that, I for one don't care at all if they know how long i use what software on my 3DS. Sure there are thousands of other uses for this hardware brewing out there already and thats all fine and dandy, just expect to loose the ability to use any official software. This is something I can almost agree with, but in the future we could say get debian running on one, I'd buy another one for my non-nintendo use. I see most of the data they record being used for marketing purposes internally at nintendo, and they've been doing it a long time. So I don't really mind my 3DS phoning home unless its going to include what websites I went to on the browser, than I might have to limit its usage.

Re:yarr, blame the pirates (2)

Bert64 (520050) | more than 2 years ago | (#36164310)

Did they lose money to the flashcarts?
I know several people with DS units, all of them have flashcarts and bought the DS specifically because of the convenience offered by a flashcart. In fact, of these people i doubt any of them would have bought a DS if it weren't for the ability to load a large number of games onto a single portable unit, without the hassle of carrying around a big stack of tiny cards that are easy to lose.
Considering nintendo make a profit on every DS sold, they have actually benefitted from such people.

I certainly wouldn't have bought a DS if i would have been forced to carry round a load of carts in addition to the unit itself.

Re:yarr, blame the pirates (3, Insightful)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 2 years ago | (#36164584)

I eagerly await enlightenment as to how automatically assigning Nintendo a worldwide license to do whatever they want with pictures taken by a 3DS will battle piracy...

In virtually all relevant jurisdictions(ie. ones where people actually have money) copyright infringement is already illegal, often pretty harshly so, and in a nontrivial subset of those regions, cracking DRM schemes is as well, no clickwrap required. The "rights" that Nintendo is claiming in their EULA are either wildly irrelevant to piracy(except in the sense that grabbing copyrighted material produced by others on hardware they purchased from Nintendo is pretty damn piratical on Nintendo's part...) or not at all clearly legal(destroying somebody else's property because an "unauthorized peripheral" was connected to it) or an uneccessary duplication of existing, non-contractually-based law(copyright violation is illegal even if the clickwrap doesn't say so, DMCA-esque laws hold in a number of areas, again without the assistance of clickwrap).

This EULA is a mixture of invasive, redundant, and abusive, regardless of how much the evil pirates did or didn't cost them last round.

We're screwed no matter what (3, Interesting)

atomicbutterfly (1979388) | more than 2 years ago | (#36164028)

Virtually all services and products produced which are useful or fun in some way have got dodgy ToS' or EULAs or other disclaimers that screw the user's rights. At this rate if I boycott each and every company who's been or is currently being a dick towards the consumer, there'll be nothing left.

Not that it's a bad thing for the FSF to make such hostile agreements public of course. But having said that, I doubt the FSF would support buying any modern console given they are all from dodgy companies and/or have dodgy terms/EULAs. So what's left? Certainly not the PC - the prime platform is Steam these days, and I find it hard to believe the FSF could support something like Steam for a multitude of reasons.

Might as well just not play any games... except for the FLOSS stuff. If that's the case, I'd get a new hobby. The FSF sure makes life fun. Maybe the solution is to realize things are fucked, and just go with it. Better to not be ignorant of the state of the world, and at least get some enjoyment out of it. It's the only reason why I can stand using Steam - don't want to sound like a bitter old bastard later on in life while every else is enjoying themselves. :)

Re:We're screwed no matter what (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 2 years ago | (#36164658)

Might as well just not play any games... except for the FLOSS stuff. If that's the case, I'd get a new hobby.

Or you could donate money or art assets to your favorite FLOSS game.

Re:We're screwed no matter what (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36164836)

PC + Wine + GoG == DRM free gaming

Works for me!

NOT go with it. (4, Interesting)

Errol backfiring (1280012) | more than 2 years ago | (#36165162)

Maybe the solution is to realize things are fucked, and just go with it.

No. the real solution is to change the fact that these stupid things are lawful. FSF has a nice example, but the wrong target. They should target the law and politics for making these absurd situations possible. The law should protect you from these situations, not encourage them. Nintendo is only guilty of using the possibilities they were given. Target the people responsible for giving Nintendo these possibilities.

Re:We're screwed no matter what (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36165348)

Or, the console makers could sell physical devices to customers who, after purchase, are free to do whatever-the-hell they want with said devices. They could even make region-free devices, so that people in country A who want to play games released only in country B don't have to choose between piracy, buying a new console from country B, or doing without the games they want! Imagine, a company making it easy and appealing for people to give them money...

They DO have a point (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36164034)

The whole "send cardboard bricks to Nintendo" thing is pretty silly, but beyond that, they really do have a point. They're not making shit up; it's all spelled out, hidden somewhere in Nintendo's policies.

Youtuber covered this before slashdot :O (2)

Moiph (686057) | more than 2 years ago | (#36164142)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htTs9CC52cA [youtube.com] She brings up some pretty interesting points. I was thinking about getting one as well but I'm definitely not anymore, not after this. I've also seen a few sites defending Nintendo because it "protects against piracy". When I asked the girl who covered this on her youtube channel she said she thinks it's not about piracy at all, but that Nintendo is using Piracy as an excuse to radically control its users and profit off of them. Interesting points, even if a bit "extreme".

Simple Solution. (1)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 2 years ago | (#36164210)

Wait for the Hacked Cart's to come out that will bypass all this crap.

Honestly, I dont see all the fuss, I played a 3ds for about 2 hours, the effect is not that impressive and I started to get a headache after a while. I can see 8 year olds whos parents are too busy with their career wanting it, but I cant see anyone else really interested in it.

Honestly it looks like Nintendo reign as king of videogames is at an end. The last 3 iterations of the DS have been meh, and the WiiWii will not gather any attention.

Sooo... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36164260)

They're going to ban and brick users who have taken 3d pictures of their junk? Yeah, i'd like to see the embarrassment on faces of Nintendo execs when that lawsuit hits. Fils-Aime will have a tough time explaining that one.

Might be irrelevent in the EU? (1)

DrScotsman (857078) | more than 2 years ago | (#36164262)

IANAL but a lot of that sounds like it'd might fall foul of the EU-wide Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations. The bricking definitely.

If I wanted a 3DS I'd still get one regardless. If they bricked my device I'd see them in small claims. Call me overconfident if you want, but living the lifestyle where you're worried about terms that don't look like they'll stand up is quite boring and sometimes expensive.

I recently bought my first Steam game and didn't care about the ToS for the same reason - nothing that looked threatening seemed valid. Yeah they're a US company, but I'm sure they'll have enough presence/assets in the UK to hold accountable (notably there are quite a few terms say things like "May not be valid if you're an EU customer", so it seems they do feel threatened to comply with EU laws at least somewhat).

Probably illegal in many ways (1)

Alain Williams (2972) | more than 2 years ago | (#36164392)

Just a few for starters:

  1. EU data protection: they are taking personal data, probably exporting to Japan. This is illegal
  2. EU data protection: they are giving personal data personal data to 3rd parties. This may be illegal
  3. Many of these things are given to kids who cannot legally agree to their rights being taken away nor their data being abused
  4. What is a kid takes a nude pic of themselves or a friend and Nintendo grabs a copy ? Nintendo become traffickers in child porn.

I don't have one of these things (and have little interest in gaming), but I suspect that the Terms of Service are only readable after has bought the thing and taken it home. What needs to happen is many to buy one and to return it asking for a full refund because the ToS is not acceptable.

What about the DS? (1)

Loki_666 (824073) | more than 2 years ago | (#36164446)

My kids have got a Nintendo DS each... wonder if they have the same terms (come on, as if im actually going to read the conditions!)

My kids use them mainly for recording silly noises and taking random photos, sometimes of themselves naked... i wonder if Nintendo are the proud owners of a huge pile of photos of naked children. Perhaps time to call the Department of Homeland Security and let them know that Nintendo collect "CP".

Ok, time to rally.. (1)

Combatso (1793216) | more than 2 years ago | (#36164484)

Everyone buy a 3DS and take pictures of your Bowel Movements.. Should make for an interesting ad campaign for Nintendo.

Its an extension of my TweetPoop campaign to Tweet the Conservastive Party of Canada everyone I sit on the can.

INAL, but isn't this boilerplate? (1)

flibbidyfloo (451053) | more than 2 years ago | (#36164610)

Isn't this the same boilerplate text that's in just about every agreement these days related to technology, content, and the interwebs? It sounds like the same legalese that was recently seen in Twitpic's TOS that everyone freaked out about, until it was pointed out that they weren't just being evil bastards?

As far as I know companies use this text to make sure you can't sue them if they use footage or screenshots for marketing that happen to include something you could otherwise claim an exclusive right to. It seems unlikely to me that Nintendo is going to start trolling through people's handhelds for photos that are better than what their pricey marketing firms could come up with.

Unenforceable EULA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36164660)

This doesn't need to be a story, if you want to go defeat it. It is a device intended to be sold to children (though not exclusively). Children cannot enter into legally binding contracts. Nintendo therefore has no reason to expect the EULA to be in force on any given unit, so exercising the EULA rights they have granted themselves is not something they can do in good faith. So catch them doing it and sue. There fixed. [I am not a lawyer, but I think in just about every EULA case where the question of enforcing the EULA with out proof of agreement is the good faith expectation that it probably is. Remove that expectation, and then that hurdle comes back]

Though this is just another case of the open hardware foundation, demonstrating that that's what they are and not the FSF, as they have named themselves. This isn't a free software issue, it's an open hardware issue. I believe in free software, open software, and open hardware, but I am tired of the open hardware guys at FSF, trying to hijack the software causes to promote open hardware, without being open about it, and stating that as their goal.

YES YOU TOO! (0)

Osgeld (1900440) | more than 2 years ago | (#36164700)

can give your piece of mind to Nintendo, all you need to do is purchase this 25 cent cardboard box with a brick like print for the low low cost of 10dollars each!!!!

And we even promise to mail it off for you!

horse shit you cheap money whores

South Park (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36164754)

I can't believe no-one has mentioned the "Human CENTiPAD" episode yet. Does nobody watch South Park anymore? It is streamed online for free, so I dunno what your excuse is.

Nobody cares (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36164758)

It's one again a group of obese hippies babbling like naturalists about shit nobody cares about.

Why all the outrage? (0)

TerminaMorte (729622) | more than 2 years ago | (#36164828)

It's a common practice when you mod your console to play homebrew/backups NEVER to accept another update again.

Obviously something could break (accidentally due to the mod, or on purpose by the company). In other words: DON'T UPDATE IF YOU MOD YOUR HARDWARE.

Everyone gives Nintendo crap about how easily hacked their systems are and how they DIDN'T take many steps to prevent it. Now they're trying to make sure that the 3DS doesn't have the same piracy issues as the other DSes and people are surprised/outraged?

Arduino (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36164890)

Damnit! I am going to have to start building devices. You people can't make single "free as in freedom" device.

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