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That's some fine police work, boys (5, Insightful)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 3 years ago | (#36166554)

I've never been a particularly big fan of Sony, mind you. But even I am shocked by the level of security incompetence they've shown over this whole thing. This is a major corporation, for fuck's sake! Do they even *have* a full-time security staff in there online division? Their press releases make it sound like they only stumbled on the whole PSN hack by accident and had to run out and contract for a bunch of security people. Surely to god they had SOMEONE monitoring security, right?

As one of the effected users, I'm just glad I never gave them my credit card number (fortunately, I never bought anything on PSN). Now, I wouldn't give them a credit card number on a *dare*. Hell, I won't even give them my real *name* ever again. No online system is secure, but theirs looks like a complete joke.

Meanwhile, you have the CEO of the company dismissing this whole thing as a "hiccup," [bloomberg.com] which pretty aptly demonstrates just how seriously Sony apparently takes its security. No way I want my CC number or private info involved in their next "hiccup."

Re:That's some fine police work, boys (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36166598)

My registered name on PSN is "Pnsndltn Ck".

Maybe you should have learned from all of Sony's other debacles and never even given them your full name? :)

Re:That's some fine police work, boys (2, Insightful)

Moryath (553296) | more than 3 years ago | (#36166616)

Be careful.

Last time I pointed out how bad this was, a bunch of Sony Fanbois downmodded me.

They seem to spend far more money on faked astroturf ad campaigns than they do on security, anyways. Remember the PSP incidents [dvorak.org] ?

The Sony Fanbois today are pretty much a standing example of FanDumb [tvtropes.org] ... not surprising since anyone with any sense jumped ship from Sony a long while ago.

Re:That's some fine police work, boys (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36166816)

There's nothing sadder than console warriors.

I'm sure one day Sony will be brought down by /. posters.

Re:That's some fine police work, boys (5, Funny)

newcastlejon (1483695) | more than 3 years ago | (#36167226)

I'm sure one day Sony will be brought down by /. posters.

Well, there are a lot of Anonymous here but unfortunately they're all cowards.

Re:That's some fine police work, boys (1, Insightful)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 3 years ago | (#36166888)

It would take a pretty damned die-hard fanboy to be defending them at this point. About the best anyone can say is "Well, at least we got some free games out of it." Hell, everyone should get a free copy of L.A. Noire at this point, instead of just some old games. I think we're beyond the "Sorry about that, here's a free coupon" stage of fuckup.

Re:That's some fine police work, boys (5, Funny)

SimonTheSoundMan (1012395) | more than 3 years ago | (#36167286)

You're supposed to say "I'm going to get modded to oblivion for this". You'll end up getting +5.

I think I'll get modded to oblivion for this reply now.

Re:That's some fine police work, boys (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36166650)

hold your horses there... they used said data to send an email confirmation link requiring a login to quirocity to reset for psn.

Re:That's some fine police work, boys (4, Interesting)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 3 years ago | (#36166860)

Most of those email accounts probably used the same passwords as the stolen sony accounts.

At this point sony should require users to create new accounts and import trophies from the old accounts if you give the old password. This would mean at worst someone could get a bunch of unearned trophies, instead of access to an account with which they could buy something.

Re:That's some fine police work, boys (1)

Beardydog (716221) | more than 3 years ago | (#36167298)

Agreed, new accounts all around. I thought movies and downloadable games would be attached to accounts as well, though...

Re:That's some fine police work, boys (2)

stanlyb (1839382) | more than 3 years ago | (#36166770)

It is simple, they simply don't have the competent, and found guilty SF sysadmin, who actually did his job, no matter the consequences... As simple as that.

Re:That's some fine police work, boys (3, Insightful)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 3 years ago | (#36166810)

But even I am shocked by the level of security incompetence they've shown over this whole thing. This is a major corporation, for fuck's sake!

The reason they are like this is because they are a major corporation. Anything smaller could not survive such a fiasco. Security costs money, it is the first thing out the window in a major corporation.

Re:That's some fine police work, boys (5, Insightful)

cobrausn (1915176) | more than 3 years ago | (#36167294)

The reason they are like this is because they are a major corporation. Anything smaller could not survive such a fiasco. Security costs money, it is the first thing out the window in a major corporation.

This logic fails to pass the smell test. Amazon is a major corporation, and they have proven to be quite secure. And if security costs money, why do only small companies (who don't have the capital to spare) have security? Surely they would try to save some money here and there and possibly consider cutting security measures.

Big corporations can be guilty of many things, but this seems more like anti-corporate ranting than an 'Insightful' analysis of the situation.

Re:That's some fine police work, boys (2)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 3 years ago | (#36167432)

Stop applying logic to the actions of business school product.

Amazon is online only, they have to do this. Good security is not capital intensive, it is within the reach of many small companies. Good design is step one, staying current with updates is step 2. Sony failed at step 1. Credit card data should never have been available to the PSN in anyway. It should come in via some other method and be only usable by the payment processing service that the games network has only one way communication with. Then the payment processing system logs approved or denied to a logging service that then notifies the games network.

Sony can cut these costs and not risk going out of business a smaller company cannot.

This is what I have seen working in such places. Not a rant at all.

Re:That's some fine police work, boys (2)

tlhIngan (30335) | more than 3 years ago | (#36167458)

Funny thing is, I think Sony really did manage to get away without a real security division. And Nintendo's probably next.

Microsoft, being Microsoft, would probably be attacked so often there's an alarm that goes off when the number of detected attacks falls. After all, every script kiddie and hacker wants to go after Microsoft and its insecure software. So they're probably spending tons of time and money on security - things like defense in depth (firewalls, machines that can only access data it needs, etc), monitoring, and probably many layers of systems and protections.

DItto other big sites like Amazon. But companies like Sony and others probably not so much. In fact, I'd guess a large majority of sites have known vulnerabilities ripe for the asking (seeing the spread of javascript worms across websites), it's just they're unheard of or no one's really bothered going after joe's website. All hell will break loose should Microsoft or Amazon be attacked - not from the data stolen, but the exploit itself would pretty much make a good chunk of everyone vulnerable.

And Sony - why would people even bother? Mostly out of the way and not really looking like it offers much. Until, I suppose the failoverfl0w guys discovered that the PS3 had so many fundamental flaws in security, maybe it extended to Sony's online properties as ewll.

Sony just got lucky - flaws like this are pretty fundamental. Hell, I think Microsoft suffered something like this in the early days (it's Microsoft) so they clamped things down on their front-facing servers. And hell, I bet Apple is attacked just as much trying to get in through iTunes or something. But Sony? Other than maybe a few MMORPGs, an unheard of music service and PSN, meh.

I bet the attackers would probably go after Nintendo next - I also don't think they've secured things too well and are probably vulnerable. Just no one's really bothered to attack them.

Re:That's some fine police work, boys (4, Informative)

eldavojohn (898314) | more than 3 years ago | (#36166910)

Meanwhile, you have the CEO of the company dismissing this whole thing as a "hiccup," [bloomberg.com] which pretty aptly demonstrates just how seriously Sony apparently takes its security. No way I want my CC number or private info involved in their next "hiccup."

And also saying he can't promise you security after this attack [smh.com.au] . "It's the beginning, unfortunately, or the shape of things to come. It's not a brave new world — it's a bad new world" is what he said exactly. So is he preparing us for an endless number of "hiccups"?

Re:That's some fine police work, boys (1)

truthsearch (249536) | more than 3 years ago | (#36167200)

To be fair, though, if he promised no more security breaches everyone would laugh since every system is vulnerable at some point. He really can't win no matter what he says.

Re:That's some fine police work, boys (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 3 years ago | (#36167230)

This is pathetic, playing it off like they're not at fault. Sure you got hacked, but this is like having a bank that stores the money out back in a dumpster and then blaming the thieves for your inability to secure deposits. At least try you assholes.

Re:That's some fine police work, boys (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36166912)

You know how it is with security: It's a cost driver, not a revenue driver. As long as a company is lucky, it's very hard to justify keeping an adequate security staff. When disaster strikes, well, that's what golden parachutes are for.

Re:That's some fine police work, boys (1)

TemperedAlchemist (2045966) | more than 3 years ago | (#36167112)

That's generally how these types of things go. Yeah, like some hacker who could break into PSN would be dumb enough to leave a "I WAS HERE" sign.

Re:That's some fine police work, boys (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36167178)

Here is the video I think that everyone is thinking right now:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjLgekyOZA0#t=0m58s

Speaking of police work (5, Informative)

bonch (38532) | more than 3 years ago | (#36167356)

Speaking of police work, Slashdot editors should try actually verifying their stories. PSN isn't down. It's up right now I type this. Apparently, what's down is the email reset page.

As for your credit card number, there is no evidence credit card data was obtained in the PSN breach. Credit card companies would have noticed an increase in fraud and alerted their customers. The alarmism on forums is ridiculous, and most of it is driven from Sony hatred rather than facts. This is the website on which a commenter to a story on the Japan earthquake delaying the Sony NGP [slashdot.org] justified the lethal disaster by saying, "Anything that hurts Sony is good for the consumer." [slashdot.org] It got +3 Funny.

Re:That's some fine police work, boys (1)

toxonix (1793960) | more than 3 years ago | (#36167424)

I'd like to see how the breach went down and how they found out about it. It looks like the operations people were completely unaware until it was too late. They have limited options now: Delete ALL of the personal information, start with a clean, empty database. Everything is compromised, so nothing can be used to recover the data. I would anticipate that anyone who really wants to continue to use the system will at least create a new account with the minimum information in order to avoid the annoying login prompts. They should remove any unnecessary login prompts in the first place (why do I need to authenticate with PSN to use Netflix? etc) The only possible account recovery scenario is if they had tied the MAC address of the PS3 to the account. It would be more difficult to spoof the MAC address than to use the any of the compromised PII data.

Gross stupidity (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36166566)

Are they really that dumb?

Re:Gross stupidity (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36166588)

Are they really that dumb?

Yes

Re:Gross stupidity (2)

Millennium (2451) | more than 3 years ago | (#36166612)

Are they really that dumb?

Yes. I'd stake $599US on it.

Re:Gross stupidity (1)

jmd_akbar (1777312) | more than 3 years ago | (#36166734)

Are they really that dumb?

Was there ever any doubt?? I heard the Japanese PSN wasn't even up.. They were saying, it will be up only after they are confirmed its security is safe.. So that was one good thing that came out of this debaccle.. The Japan wing of Sony's PSN is good.. The rest, as they say, is history..

Re:Gross stupidity (5, Informative)

JorDan Clock (664877) | more than 3 years ago | (#36167330)

The Japanese PSN isn't up because the Japanese government isn't letting them put it back up until they can demonstrate they've properly secured it.

Sony's security team is an abysmal failure (3, Insightful)

digitaldc (879047) | more than 3 years ago | (#36166600)

Did Sony's security team even THINK about testing and verifying they were doing was indeed secure when they brought the system back up again?

Sounds like the corporate culture over at Sony is horrible. First the DRM scandal, then the PSN hack and now this.

Re:Sony's security team is an abysmal failure (1)

Midnight Thunder (17205) | more than 3 years ago | (#36166982)

Apparently not. Surely it makes more sense to send out e-mails to each user with account specific tokens in order to reactivate the accounts? Its not perfect, but provides a bit more security. There are probably other suitable way, so if you know of any let me know.

Re:Sony's security team is an abysmal failure (1)

digitaldc (879047) | more than 3 years ago | (#36167068)

The other suitable way is to visit each PSN network member personally in their homes and verify through a series of extremely-intrusive questions, birth-certificate verification, and DNA tests that they indeed are who they say the are.

Re:Sony's security team is an abysmal failure (1)

Nethemas the Great (909900) | more than 3 years ago | (#36167304)

The most likely scenario involves the sales side seeing their stream of Yen dry up and demanding the restoration of service from their engineering group. Rinse, repeat hourly since the geeks pulled the plug with an ever increasingly rabid sales department demanding their blood.

Re:Sony's security team is an abysmal failure (0)

bonch (38532) | more than 3 years ago | (#36167452)

First the DRM scandal

The only place it was a "scandal" was on websites like Slashdot. The public probably wouldn't even know what you're talking about. They also promptly forgot about the PSN hack the moment they could get online again and play Call of Duty.

By the way, PSN never went down, so this headline is totally false. What's down is signing in using a PSN account on several websites like Playstation.com and Qrocity. It was a website exploit, not a PSN problem. This site is totally lying.

Its just sony (4, Interesting)

unity100 (970058) | more than 3 years ago | (#36166604)

they are the company who shut down japanese swg servers suddenly one morning to the face of at least 4000 players without warning. they decided the servers were not profitable, and they decided to shut them off to their customers' faces without a word. if you played a char for 2-3 years and had memories etc, you couldnt even take a screenshot.

that is TOTALLY leaving aside how they screwed their customers en large in star wars galaxies, at the cost of screwing up the game. they had the habit of routinely changing skill properties in order to force people to drop entire skill trees and level others so that they would keep paying - spent 2 months of your play time building up a character ? well - come next patch, you had to ditch on average 30% of your character and level another tree to remain viable. as long as you kept paying, it was all ok by soe.

sony deserves whatever is shoved up their ass.

Re:Its just sony (1)

kazade84 (1078337) | more than 3 years ago | (#36167030)

Someone really needs to consolidate all the bad stuff Sony has done onto one web page. That way next time someone questions my adversity to all things Sony, I can just point at it.

Re:Its just sony (1)

Xelios (822510) | more than 3 years ago | (#36167250)

It's such a shame that SOE owns the Planetside IP. The first 6 months of that game were incredibly fun, one of the best online games I'd ever played. You could log in at any time, jump into a big battle, play for an hour and then log off again. No real grinding, no excessive travel times, no waiting for things to happen, it was great for people who wanted the unique kind of fun an MMO brings without spending ages to get it. Then slowly but surely they ran it into the ground. It should have been a great success, considering how popular FPS games became shortly after its release. Instead it fizzled away, mostly due to lack of marketing and some absolutely terrible expansions that seemed like they weren't play tested at all.

Now Planetside 2 is in the works, and while I desperately want it to be good it's still in SOE's hands. "Hopes... deleted."

Re:Its just sony (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36167282)

sony deserves whatever is shoved up their ass.

Let's try not to do something they will like.

Verification data (1)

internerdj (1319281) | more than 3 years ago | (#36166622)

Maybe they can use my SSN, or hmmm my old password, or how many fingers I'm holding up. Sony can't reset my password with data they never had and if the hackers stole all the data Sony had on me; Sony doesn't have much recourse than to use that data. The question now is balancing the pain of the process with the security of the process.

Re:Verification data (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36166740)

Send a verification code to your email address. Still not perfect but better than just leaving all the doors wide open again.

Re:Verification data (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36167336)

Maybe not all Sony employees are incompetent. I just changed my password for my SOE account and was required to click a confirmation link sent to my email address. Then again I haven't received a single mail from them regarding the whole affair. Either they forgot or that particular system wasn't affected. I fear it's the former since I was required to change my password before I could log in. So, the judges are still out on the incompetence ruling ;)

Re:Verification data (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36166746)

This is gonna sound a bit wacky because I'm still something of an amateur at computer security, but what if as a start Sony used the e-mail addresses on file to send individualized password reset links to each customer?

Re:Verification data (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36166940)

They were probably trying to not require you to use anything other than your PS3 in this process. That was probably a mistake.

Re:Verification data (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36166984)

Then you'd be fired by Sony for being "one o' them thinkin' types".

Though out of all seriousness, there's probably the slight possibility that the users use the same password for PSN that they do for their email service, meaning THAT might also be compromised. In theory, at least*, ownership of a PS3 should be a bit more secure than that possibility.

Wait, what am I thinking? This latest downtime is specifically because they didn't think through something EXACTLY as in-depth as that. This is probably just incompetence lumped on top of incompetence.

*: Note that I said "in theory**". I know this theory is blatantly false, but I'm adding this footnote so I can point it out to people when they come yelling at me about it.
**: Note that I said it again right there. I'm covering my bases, see.

Re:Verification data (3, Interesting)

wbav (223901) | more than 3 years ago | (#36167022)

Actually, they did. I have one of them:
To reset your PlayStation(R)Network password, please click on the link below. This link will expire in 24 hours from the time that it was sent. The link will direct you to a PlayStation(R)Network web page and allow you to enter and confirm your new password.

https://store.playstation.com/accounts/security/resetPassword.action?token=-- [playstation.com]


Obviously I removed my token.

Re:Verification data (3, Funny)

mustPushCart (1871520) | more than 3 years ago | (#36167382)

Obviously I removed my token.

You should apply for sony's online security team.

Re:Verification data (1)

djlemma (1053860) | more than 3 years ago | (#36167110)

I wouldn't be surprised it the hackers also sent emails claiming to be for purposes of re-activating accounts, but instead they phish for even more used data..

Re:Verification data (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36166962)

Heh, Kind of funny if they ask for my email and birthday, considering I did not give them my real birthday and I don't remember the fake one I gave them guess I won't be back on PSN. Can you hear my river of tears... boo hoo... good riddance PSN I won't be back, PS3 is going in the closet.

Hardware ID (1)

pavon (30274) | more than 3 years ago | (#36167202)

In addition to the email suggestions above, shouldn't they be able to use some sort of hardware ID? I don't think PSN accounts are tied to your machine, but they should have records of which machines you have used with PSN recently. Just require that you reactive your account from a machine which you regularly used prior to the intrusion. If they can't even verify that, then what good is their DRM at all?

THIS ARTICLE IS BS (1)

Zeromous (668365) | more than 3 years ago | (#36167416)

I'm about 99% certain that Sony required you to reactivate your account from the PS3 it was activated on.

This is an absolute non-issue /multiple PS3 owner

Really? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36166634)

This Sony ordeal is getting ridiculous... Seriously, even this? C'mon! What's wrong with you, Sony?

Duh (1)

TheNinjaroach (878876) | more than 3 years ago | (#36166660)

Hackers stole everything Sony knows about their users, so it's no surprise that re-verifying accounts is going to be a painful process.

Re:Duh (1)

sycorob (180615) | more than 3 years ago | (#36166776)

Couldn't they have used the email address on the account to send a security token, something like that?

"An email has been sent to ********@yahoo.com with your confirmation code. Please check your email and enter this code to continue."

Overall, wow - using the stolen information to re-register your account? Why bother making people change their password then? Heaping spoonful of FAIL.

Re:Duh (2)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 3 years ago | (#36166914)

No, because for 90% of those users the PSN password and the email password are going to be the same.

The only solution is new accounts and import trophies from the old one, but not anything sensitive.

Re:Duh (1)

silentphate (1245152) | more than 3 years ago | (#36167064)

No, because for 90% of those users the PSN password and the email password are going to be the same.

The only solution is new accounts and import trophies from the old one, but not anything sensitive.

I disagree Sony should send a verification to the default email address listed on each account. Peoples passwords might be the same but That is not Sony's fault. Any competent user should know to use a unique password for each service they subscribe too. Especially in cases where credit cards and other personal information are required.

Re:Duh (1)

xaxa (988988) | more than 3 years ago | (#36167094)

"An email has been sent to ********@yahoo.com with your confirmation code. Please check your email and enter this code to continue."

"Important: if you use the same password for the Playstation Network and your email address, change your email password immediately."

Problem solved? Making a new PSN account doesn't stop the crackers accessing email accounts -- they have those details.

Re:Duh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36167102)

Wouldn't you have reset your email password by now if it was the same?

Re:Duh (1)

nschubach (922175) | more than 3 years ago | (#36167126)

Eh... if you try to log in, they can send the email at that time. Anyone trying to hack all the accounts would be hard pressed to log in to that many accounts to activate and reset the passwords for any moment in the day. Now, if they sent out the activation codes in batches and let the users log in at any time, sure... I can see where that may be a bad idea, but having the activation code sent at the time of initial attempt would not be as exploitable.

Now, a smart user would not use the same password for email as the PSN account and an even smarter user would change their passwords after that fiasco if they were similar (ie: I can see someone using passwords like myemailpass and mypsnpass.) So a truly ignorant person may get re-hacked if they didn't change their passwords and the activation codes were sent out.

Re:Duh (2)

msauve (701917) | more than 3 years ago | (#36167158)

Whoosh.

Sending an email ensures that the unique info necessary to re-register gets to the correct person (unless their email account has _already_ been hacked, which they should already know about and have taken care of). And of course, anyone who was on the PSN and hasn't already changed their other passwords (assuming they reused their PSN one) is a fool.

Give up?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36166676)

What happens if sony decides that maintaining PSN is not worth the effort and just decides to shut down the entire PS3 online ecosystem?

Re:Give up?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36166768)

I wonder if that this is what they want... an excuse to shutdown PSN (as if "oh, the hackers do such damage that even the reset process doesn't work" -- LOL), especially since it's causing lots of financial loss.

Re:Give up?? (1)

PPH (736903) | more than 3 years ago | (#36166824)

The market value for PS3s will plummet and we can pick them up cheap and install OtherOS.

Oh, sorry about that.

Re:Give up?? (1)

bmo (77928) | more than 3 years ago | (#36167076)

When I was a senior in HS, the price of the TI-99/4a dropped to 50 bucks. This happened just before the coupon for 50 bucks off was issued.

Free computers for everyone!

--
BMO

Re:Give up?? (1)

stanlyb (1839382) | more than 3 years ago | (#36166908)

Wii (repeat ii many times, because of the slashdot filter...)

Re:Give up?? (1)

spire3661 (1038968) | more than 3 years ago | (#36167066)

They get sued into oblivion by the mother of all class action lawsuits. Not even Sony could successfully defend against that.

FP. (1)

xtracto (837672) | more than 3 years ago | (#36166702)

I just want to say this [sbnation.com]

It's war (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36166738)

And Sony appears to think that doing system operations the Kamikaze way is in place.

But it's fucking stupid. My best guess is that their security chief got modded down by the Tsunami.

Duh. (3, Insightful)

jdkramar (803337) | more than 3 years ago | (#36166742)

One way to verify who you are is to either require you reset your password from the console you last connected to the PSN with or just send an email to the email address they have stored... Because, theoretically neither of those items are accessible to the hackers.

Re:Duh. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36166892)

One way to verify who you are is to either require you reset your password from the console you last connected to the PSN with or just send an email to the email address they have stored... Because, theoretically neither of those items are accessible to the hackers.

I have two accounts on my PS3, and that's pretty much how it worked. The first one I tried logging back in on gave me a dialog saying that my password needed to be reset and that an email was being sent to the login email with information on what to do. From there, the email had a link to click to go and change the password (I'm assuming they were doing some sort of validation with that link, but maybe they weren't). When I tried logging in the second account, it had me change the password right there from the console. I'm assuming their system is aware that both accounts were on the same console (easy enough for them to verify), and that's why the two procedures were different.

Oh come on... Think about it before you complain. (1)

John.P.Jones (601028) | more than 3 years ago | (#36166752)

That is the whole point isn't it? The bad guys stole all the info Sony knew about you so there is no reasonable way of Sony differentiating the correct user 'X' from the bad guys. What are you people really expecting? magic security fairy dust?

Its the same as people complaining about the lack of encryption on Apple's iPhone location cache, come on now, the phone needs to read and write that data, guess what that means? Even if it were encrypted the keys would need to be on the device too and the 'attack' already relies on access to the device so any 'encryption' added would be DRM style obfuscation not secure encryption. The same type of encryption the same people complain about when it is used.

Re:Oh come on... Think about it before you complai (1)

LanMan04 (790429) | more than 3 years ago | (#36166842)

The bad guys stole all the info Sony knew about you so there is no reasonable way of Sony differentiating the correct user 'X' from the bad guys.

Send me a letter (yes, snail-mail) that contains a one-time-use code that I can use to reset my password online. If you have my credit card info, you have my billing address...

Problem solved. But oh wait, that costs MONEY to do!

Re:Oh come on... Think about it before you complai (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36167078)

So what happens if you are one of the 85% of users who didn't enter CC information or use your home address (or in my case - that CC and address are so outdated that nothing is forwarded from that address anymore)?

As for Sony sending emails to the user's email account - if the hackers had malicious intent, then all those email addresses are also potentially compromised. In fact, outside of CC info, you email would be the next thing attacked:
1. because it's fairly easy to hack, especially when you have the amount of information that was stolen
2. because then the hacker potentially has access to account information from other websites, such as ebay or amazon.

Re:Oh come on... Think about it before you complai (1)

nschubach (922175) | more than 3 years ago | (#36167198)

But if you put in your postal address into the PSN then the person will know where to steal your activation code!

Any system can be explained away. Snail mail theft is a bit extreme, but so is sending everyone a snail mail code to re-activate. An email validation code should be good enough and if you're dumb enough to use the same password for PSN as your email and you haven't changed it yet, you deserve the long boring hold time while trying to get your password reset over the phone.

Re:Oh come on... Think about it before you complai (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36166846)

Well unless I misunderstand, could they not email you the new password instead of resetting it from the page? This way nothing is compromised to anyone. It's a simple two factor authentication as opposed to one-factor. The only way you would be vulnerable here is if the attacker then also knows your email password. And if it's the same as any of your other passwords, well, you're probably not reading this website.

Re:Oh come on... Think about it before you complai (1)

Tridus (79566) | more than 3 years ago | (#36167134)

They could start by sending the token that lets me change my password to my email account instead of simply throwing it up to whoever happens to hit the website with the data that was already stolen. They don't even need my old password to do this FFS.

Bothering to have people change their passwords at all with security that week is just theatre.

use a different primary factor (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36166762)

I thought they were only going to allow resets from the user's own console. Since the attackers stole everything sony knows about the user, the authentication has to rely on something the users have instead.

What's next? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36166780)

Up down up down left right left right B A.

Can somebody help these guys? (1)

Julie188 (991243) | more than 3 years ago | (#36166790)

After all the publicity, the best they come up with is to use a system that still lets you use your old credentials to get new ones? What exactly were they doing when they pulled the system down to fix the hack? If hackers really took everything Sony knows about its users, validating users accounts is going to be tough ... but will it be impossible?

Julie

Have they tried to turn it of and on again? (1)

fuzzytv (2108482) | more than 3 years ago | (#36166822)

It usually works for me ...

Better security from 13-yr olds (3, Informative)

tekrat (242117) | more than 3 years ago | (#36166828)

It seems to me that the 13-yr olds that run FARK have a far better security system in place than Sony does. Their people have no plan, no concept, no big picture at all, of what to do.

They are grasping at straws, throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks, or whatever tired car analogy you wish to entertain. Point is: I think it's time they gave up and went home.

If they are lucky, they will shut down for 8 months and rebuild from scratch. If they are stupid (most likely scenario), they will continue to prop up a house of cards with a few pieces of sticky tape, and it will come down again and again, until no one is left and they've wasted a great deal of money only to arrive at the conclusion that they should have done the rebuild from scratch in the first place.

Of course by then, management will look at the numbers and get out of the game business entirely, leaving MS and Nintendo.

Re:Better security from 13-yr olds (1)

Anrego (830717) | more than 3 years ago | (#36167138)

If they are lucky, they will shut down for 8 months and rebuild from scratch.

This is what they need to do, but no way will the horde of angry gamers wait that long (and really you can't blame them).

As you said, nothing they can do in a few weeks is going to amount to anything more than duct tape and positive thought. There system is obviously broken at a fundemental infrastructure level. The foundation of the house is crumbling and they are working fevorishly to tilt the windows so as no one notices.

The only thing I can think of is for them to strip out credit processing. Require people to buy credits in store and use them for making purchases. At this point Sony has demonstrated they don't have the competence to handle credit card processing.. so they should have to let it be done by proxy. I almost hope someone makes them go this route.

Re:Better security from 13-yr olds (1)

Anrego (830717) | more than 3 years ago | (#36167192)

* their ... good grief, sorry about that folks :(

Summary Wrong, PSN is Up (3, Informative)

wbav (223901) | more than 3 years ago | (#36166836)

But I've heard reports that the e-mail reset page is down.

The e-mail included a key to keep this from happening, but someone must have broken that key generation scheme.

Slightly misleading headline/summary (3, Informative)

RogueyWon (735973) | more than 3 years ago | (#36166844)

At the time I type this, the PSN is actually up and running. Or at least, it's online gaming components are. The Store and other features that require payments are still offline, as they have been since the initial shutdown several weeks ago. But you can, should you feel so inclined, log in and play games online at present. Whether this may change over the next few hours is open to question - while it wouldn't completely surprise me, I suspect that Sony will try to keep the network itself up this time..

What's just been taken offline is web-interface for changing passwords. Now, that's still pretty bad - in fact, given how stupid the mistake in this case is, it's verging on the awful - but I dare say that a lot of PSN users may not actually notice until Sony tells them. Furthermore, just to add a little perspective, stupid though Sony's mistake here is (and it is very stupid indeed and then some), no additional personal information or credit card details beyond what has already been leaked will have been compromised as a result of this - not least because you can't, so far as I know, actually input new credit card details into the PSN yet.

So it's a further embarrassment for Sony and will further undermine confidence in them (do you really, really want to trust them with your credit card details ever again). But unless I'm reading things wrong - and if I am then happy to be corrected- there's not been any actual additional harm done to users this time.

Actually, this one was my fault (5, Funny)

not already in use (972294) | more than 3 years ago | (#36166874)

I'm sorry for all those who I've inconvenienced. This time it was my fault. I created a new username for security purposes. Apparently, PSN didn't take too kindly to the username "; drop table Users; --"

Re:Actually, this one was my fault (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36167054)

I'm sorry for all those who I've inconvenienced. This time it was my fault. I created a new username for security purposes. Apparently, PSN didn't take too kindly to the username "; drop table Users; --"

Johnny is that you [xkcd.com] ?

Re:Actually, this one was my fault (1)

sanosuke001 (640243) | more than 3 years ago | (#36167210)

Bobby Tables; you're such an asshole

The value of paying for something (3, Interesting)

Paul Pierce (739303) | more than 3 years ago | (#36166884)

Give Microsoft credit - xbox live is setup/run extremely well. They had to compete with xbconnect, Xlink Kai, and other freebies back in the day; they stepped up and created a better alternative. Everyone was willing to pay for a service - as long as it was worth it. It was and still is.

The revenue has allowed them to build a better network and keep it up. I'm not claiming they too couldn't be hacked, just highly doubt it would be to this level.

Re:The value of paying for something (2)

Nemyst (1383049) | more than 3 years ago | (#36167414)

Microsoft is a software company.

Sony is a hardware company.

One gets catastrophic failure rates on hardware, the other gets dismal software security. Anybody suprised?

When you are stupid... (4, Insightful)

haapi (16700) | more than 3 years ago | (#36166894)

... it's not just for a day.
-- B. D.

this is crazy (1)

indecks (1208854) | more than 3 years ago | (#36166930)

I don't even miss PSN. Haven't logged in for MONTHS after I jailbroke it, so thankfully I wasn't affected by the initial hacking.

I don't even use XBox Live so it's not a fanboy thing. The only reason I even still have a XBL account is because I got charged for a year back in Nov 09, and I use it for Netflix.

PSN up, up again, then down, down. (1)

zindorsky (710179) | more than 3 years ago | (#36167004)

PSN up, up again, then down, down. Then Left, right, left, right, B, A, start.

Re:PSN up, up again, then down, down. (1)

digitaldc (879047) | more than 3 years ago | (#36167104)

Made me laugh :)

Email address as authenticator (1)

Animats (122034) | more than 3 years ago | (#36167072)

If they have an email address, they can mail a password reset to it, but simply allowing users to enter it as if it were a password is a bit much.

Of course, the problem is that if they have an email address and a password for their own system, for a large number of accounts, that password will be the password for the email system as well.

Re:Email address as authenticator (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36167296)

if you mail a password reset message to an email, and also tell that user to chance their email password as well then hackers could only reset passwords if they:
1) were _actively_ checking email on the compromised account
2) clicked the reset password link before the legit user did.

Granted the hackers could just write an amazon cloud app to log in and check for reset password links, but that's the arms race we're in now.

The update causes hard freezes, too (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36167082)

I had my PS3 totally freeze up when I was trying to put in my new password. The only way I could get it unstuck was to unplug it.

Sony = Clowns

Paging Chumbawamba... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36167084)

Microsoft should license Tubthumping and use it for the soundtrack for a fake PSN commercial...

SEE (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36167130)

This is why I like Japan.

By design? (1)

grilled-cheese (889107) | more than 3 years ago | (#36167196)

Clearly the solution here is to give Sony more personal information than you already have. How about your SSN, relative's contact info, 3rd grade report card, or facebook login (hoping you don't use the same login there). If Sony doesn't get their act together though, this will just turn into a cycle. There really is no way to identify someone on the internet other than using one issued by some other body such as a SSN or CCN who has hopefully done their legwork to verify your applications for ID are legitimate.

Egg on their face (1)

iplayfast (166447) | more than 3 years ago | (#36167386)

Anyone can make an omelet with eggs. The trick is to make one with none. Sony has learned this trick.
I've heard that shame is a powerful motivator in the East.
Apparently Sony has no shame.

Inconstent & Inadequate (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36167426)

Sony PSN has other inconsistencies as well in their password reset scheme currently in effect: the stated password policy is different on the web compared to that presented using your PS3 upon password reset. Password history doesn't seem to be properly implemented (compared to what the policy says). I've taken screenshots and made a blog post to describe the differences at securitynirvana.blogspot.com.

Of even more interest: Sony has said in official blog posts that they have used several respected security companies to aid them in restoring PSN with proper security. Anyone got any names of those companies?

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