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MeeGo 1.2 Released

Soulskill posted more than 3 years ago | from the plowing-ahead dept.

Open Source 76

jrepin sends word that the Meego project has announced the release of version 1.2: "This release provides a solid baseline for device vendors and developers to start creating software for various device categories on Intel Atom and ARMv7 architectures. This release also includes the following: Netbook UX, In-Vehicle Infotainment (IVI) UX, Tablet Developer Preview and MeeGo SDK."

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Meatloaf? (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36191780)

Does this allow me to use Meatloaf's scheduling libraries? The guys music sucks but he is a wizard when it comes to writing API's for low level hardware control.

With sadness... (0)

Chrisq (894406) | more than 3 years ago | (#36191840)

With sadness we note that this will probably be the last release [thenokiablog.com] of a doomed (Microsoft killed) project.

Re:With sadness... (1)

hazydave (96747) | more than 3 years ago | (#36191982)

Sure looks like a Nokia-killed project. And Intel, I guess, as they were partners with Nokia in this, and certainly have the funds to keep it alive indefinitely if they choose to.

Re:With sadness... (2)

mmlado (1576943) | more than 3 years ago | (#36192000)

MeeGo was a joint venture between Intel and Nokia. Even if Nokia abandons it's development, Intel will step up.

Re:With% sadness... (1)

Trufagus (1803250) | more than 3 years ago | (#36192672)

Intel would be silly to 'step up'.

Progress was slow even with Nokia giving it their full backing, but with Nokia effectively dropping it, this thing is dead as a mainstream, competitive smartphone OS.

Don't get me wrong - I was it weren't true. I wrote code for the original Nokia 770 and its successors would have preferred to see Maemo (or Meego) succeed instead of Android, but I've moved on and am now using Android and so should Intel.

And, speaking as someone who cares about the success and health of Linux, open-source, and the many other forms of openness, I guess I shouldn't be picky. Android might not be everything that Maemo was in those regards, but it is still most of those things that I care about. And when you look at alternatives like iOS and the BB OS, the differences between Maemo and Android seem absolutely tiny.

So, instead of lamenting the slow death of Maemo, we should probably be celebrating the fact that this truly is the year of Linux on the client (a.k.a. desktop), as demonstrated by the figures released yesterday for worldwide unit smartphone sales in 2011 Q1 which showed Android with a decisive lead of 36% compared to iOS and BB at 17% and 13%.

Re:With% sadness... (1)

Microlith (54737) | more than 3 years ago | (#36192752)

I've moved on and am now using Android and so should Intel.

Yeah, nothing quite as awesome as adopting a platform wholly controlled by another company.

Android might not be everything that Maemo was in those regards, but it is still most of those things that I care about.

Isolated, insular, and unhelpful to the greater open source community?

And when you look at alternatives like iOS and the BB OS, the differences between Maemo and Android seem absolutely tiny.

But on a moment's notice, everything but a handful of packages in Android could be closed up as tight as iOS whereas MeeGo cannot.

I see people virtually cheering for some terrible fate to befall MeeGo, in favor of an OS that absorbs effort from outside but benefits no one but Google and can be closed up tight on a whim (with actions to show they can and are willing to!)

Re:With% sadness... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36193698)

>Yeah, nothing quite as awesome as adopting a platform wholly controlled by another company.

And what's to stop Intel or Nokia from changing the license for future releases?

>Isolated, insular, and unhelpful to the greater open source community?

And yet Android has more open source activity from the open source community than Meego.

>But on a moment's notice, everything but a handful of packages in Android could be closed up as tight as iOS whereas MeeGo cannot.

Once again, they could easily switch the license for future versions and close it up on a whim.

>I see people virtually cheering for some terrible fate to befall MeeGo, in favor of an OS that absorbs effort from outside but benefits no one but Google and can be closed up tight on a whim >(with actions to show they can and are willing to!)

Absorbs effort from the outside? Really? It seems your issues are with Google and Android rather than furthering the movement of open source mobile operating systems. Try not to blame the popularity of Android for steamrolling your platform of choice. I suggest you direct your frustration to the company that recently 'partnered' with Nokia for the slow demise of Meego.

Re:With% sadness... (3, Informative)

Microlith (54737) | more than 3 years ago | (#36193830)

And what's to stop Intel or Nokia from changing the license for future releases?

The GPL? Virtually all of the software is under GPLv2, barring a few non-critical bits.

And yet Android has more open source activity from the open source community than Meego.

Well yes, when you hype it up, throw money at it, and convince people that you are the open mobile OS (but only for mobile handset vendors and carriers) then you'll get attention.

Once again, they could easily switch the license for future versions and close it up on a whim.

Repeating a point made in ignorance doesn't make it true.

Absorbs effort from the outside? Really? It seems your issues are with Google and Android rather than furthering the movement of open source mobile operating systems.

I am concerned with the movement of open source mobile OSes, and Android is completely detached from everything that exists already. On top of that, it's held almost entirely by Google who have show no hesitation to close the source when they saw it fit.

But hey, rant with more bad information more.

Re:With% sadness... (1)

exomondo (1725132) | more than 3 years ago | (#36213148)

But on a moment's notice, everything but a handful of packages in Android could be closed up as tight as iOS whereas MeeGo cannot.

The core os uses the licenses of upstream projects (which aren't all copyleft licenses) and UX components are generally permissive OSS licenses.
In any case the idea that it couldn't be 'closed up' is silly anyway, in both projects the open source code exists, if either project turned to proprietary replacements for those open components (be it different software or a proprietary fork) it's likely development of those open components would continue via OSS forks anyway.

Re:With% sadness... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36213624)

Android might not be everything that Maemo was in those regards, but it is still most of those things that I care about.

Isolated, insular, and unhelpful to the greater open source community?

functional, available, working, usable...all the things meego isn't.

Re:With% sadness... (3, Interesting)

the linux geek (799780) | more than 3 years ago | (#36193798)

At least from a developer perspective, Android seems a lot closer to BB OS than Maemo/MeeGo. It uses a bytecode interpreter, a non-X GUI, and a Java SDK with libraries that are highly reminiscent of J2ME.

On the other hand, Maemo doesn't look deader now than it has at any time over the last five years - a new device (the N950) is coming out with a new Maemo version, Maemo 6. I'm cautiously optimistic that it will continue to fill the power-user niche that it does now.

Re:With% sadness... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36198138)

"Maemo doesn't look deader now than it has at any time over the last five years"

You must have been living under a rock.

Re:With% sadness... (1)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 3 years ago | (#36200148)

It uses a bytecode interpreter

JIT compiler, since 2.2.

And, of course, native SDK is available since 1.5. These days they even provide handy C wrappers for UI-related Java stuff, so you can really and truly write the whole thing in native code, including event handler entrypoints.

a Java SDK with libraries that are highly reminiscent of J2ME.

I wouldn't say that Android libraries are reminiscent of J2ME, to be honest, aside from the fact that they're also written in Java.

Re:With% sadness... (1)

flibby (928270) | more than 2 years ago | (#36208038)

Are you sure about the N950 having Maemo 6? Everything I've read said that Maemo 6 became MeeGo and that any new devices will be running that.

Re:With% sadness... (1)

horza (87255) | more than 3 years ago | (#36194414)

Agree that Intel have little incentive now. Before it made sense to hedge their bets when the OS of their main partner Microsoft had been a dismal failure and one of the largest mobile handset manufacturers in the world had thrown their weight behind Meego. Even at the risk of raising the ire of one of their best partners in the previous couple of decades, the volume of Nokia sales was too hard to ignore.

Now with the only mobile manufacturer committed to MeeGo paid off to kill it, why would Intel continue? They don't make phones. They certainly aren't a software company set up to compete with Google and its Android OS. The fastest rising star in mobile phones Samsung is committed to Bada and Android. Blackberry have committed to QNX.

Seems pretty dead to me. Shame as I wanted one.

Phillip.

Re:With sadness... (1)

Serious Callers Only (1022605) | more than 3 years ago | (#36193014)

MeeGo was a joint venture between Intel and Nokia. Even if Nokia abandons it's development, Intel will step up.

Intel makes and sells chips, they do not sell operating systems, or devices which directly need operating systems. This was a gambit by them to promote the use of Atom and try to get some leverage in the mobile OS market. Without Nokia they have no horse in this race and no reason to continue supporting Meego, and even if they did try to, they have no OS expertise, no direct channel to market, and no real business reason to continue funding it. So it will die.

Development choices are often political (like it or not), and as with QT, this project sadly will have no future because the former backers have no financial interest in continuing to promote development, and no interest in seeing that it becomes a healthy standalone OS project either.

Re:With sadness... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36193532)

Sorry but Intel does now sell operating systems: VxWorks [windriver.com] . Also note [arstechnica.com] .

Intel Shifts Might to Mobile (1)

traindirector (1001483) | more than 3 years ago | (#36193616)

This was a gambit by them to promote the use of Atom and try to get some leverage in the mobile OS market. Without Nokia they have no horse in this race and no reason to continue supporting Meego...

Perhaps you haven't been paying attention to what Intel's been saying [slashdot.org] . I'm not sure they'll be successful, but if continued work on Meego is part of their plan, I'm glad to see them try.

Re:With sadness... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36204926)

No OS expertise? They were developing Moblin before Meego, and Meego is still in part based on Moblin, the merger of Moblin and Maemo may have been a mistake for Intel in hindsight, but that doesn't mean the can't or won't continue with it.

Re:With sadness... (1)

Rhodri Mawr (862554) | more than 3 years ago | (#36192002)

With sadness we note that this will probably be the last release [thenokiablog.com] of a doomed (Microsoft killed) project.

...because open source projects never make any releases, do they?

Re:With sadness... (2)

CRCulver (715279) | more than 3 years ago | (#36192006)

Meego is not meant only for mobile phones and several other companies are already committed to using Meego on tablets and in-vehicle devices. The claim "OMG Meego is dead because Microsoft controls Nokia!" is usually found in fora where people have no idea what Meego is.

Re:With sadness... (1)

losinggeneration (797436) | more than 3 years ago | (#36192054)

You must be out of the loop: Intel and MeeGo. Hopefully this release will be well received and Intel will continue their work. Also note, all of the tablet developer preview in this release was totally Intel's doing.

Re:With sadness... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36192182)

Just couple days ago a representative of Intel talked of "hiring 100-200 developers, initially" for Finnish offices (Nvidia is competing for these people, obviously with an Android slant), of which a vast majority MeeGo related. That is a considerable commitment, and potentially quite efficient after getting rid of awful amount of bureaucratic inertia of Nokia...

Re:With sadness... (4, Interesting)

Ami Ganguli (921) | more than 3 years ago | (#36193880)

Yup, this is happening.

I live in Finland and have friends/contacts/etc. who are involved in MeeGo both professionally and as a hobby.

Shortly after the Microsoft announcement, Intel spread the work among Nokia MeeGo people, and held a huge recruiting event. In the meantime, third-party subcontractors who were doing a lot of MeeGo work for Nokia are now getting contracts from Intel.

It makes sense, if you think about it. Intel desparately needs to make inroads into the mobile market. MeeGo was a part of that strategy, and suddenly it was undercut by Nokia. Hiring a few hundred developers to keep that strategy alive is peanuts for a company the size of Intel, and well worth the investment.

Yes, Intel and AMD as well (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36193388)

AMD has pledged the contribution of its "engineering expertise" to the further advancement of the open source OS.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/11/15/amd-will-contribute-engineering-expertise-to-meego-development/

Re:With sadness... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36192342)

Or rather doomed by Microsoft-assisted suicide.

Re:With sadness... (2)

operator_error (1363139) | more than 3 years ago | (#36192908)

The link to that old blog post is very mis-leading, which was written at the height of the Nokia/Microsoft announcement, when the partners really really wanted to hype WP7. Let me quote the relevant text from the whole piece right here:

Under the new strategy, MeeGo becomes an open-source, mobile operating system project. MeeGo will place increased emphasis on longer-term market exploration of next-generation devices, platforms and user experiences. Nokia still plans to ship a MeeGo-related product later this year.

Okay Slashdotters, what is wrong with this? What better option are you suggesting, if you really like the idea of an open, linux phone? The timing of the Meego announcement today has everything to do with the upcoming Meego conference in a few days' time in San Francisco, where in all likelihood the Nokia N950 [cnet.co.uk] will be revealed. I saw the teaser video before YouTube pulled it and it looks sweet. What is not to like, other than Nokia dedicating less resources than before? They are NOT ending their Meego support, but they are looking for Slashdotting-type Devs to enbrace their new "elegant, Developer-focused" N950 hardware, along with Meego 1.2 available today for a range of mobile devices.

Re:With sadness... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36205618)

The current rumours are that the device in that video is actually the one that got canceled earlier this year, and they are using the already produced stock for developer devices and there will be a more powerful keyboardless version for consumers coming out in the next few months. People who claim to have Nokia contacts are backing these rumours, but they are still rumours, this plan does raise the question of why make the promo video that was leaked, which does seem to be recently made because the icons shown on that phone in the video were designed recently.

Re:With sadness... (1)

jadrian (1150317) | more than 3 years ago | (#36193516)

From the linked announcement, which you obviously didn't bother to read:

MeeGo development continues forward on a six-month cadence, with MeeGo 1.3 scheduled to be released in October, 2011.

Re:With sadness... (1)

Bill_the_Engineer (772575) | more than 3 years ago | (#36194152)

I clicked the link you provided and it does not look as bad as you say:

Under the new strategy, MeeGo becomes an open-source, mobile operating system project. MeeGo will place increased emphasis on longer-term market exploration of next-generation devices, platforms and user experiences. Nokia still plans to ship a MeeGo-related product later this year.

I didn't see anything that explicitly said the Nokia was abandoning MeeGo. I did see that Symbian will be killed in favor of Windows Phone.

Re:With sadness... (1)

yuhong (1378501) | more than 3 years ago | (#36195636)

Does it run on my n900? (0)

lsolano (398432) | more than 3 years ago | (#36191854)

I'm being sarcastic, of course.

Re:Does it run on my n900? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36191916)

(Ignoring sarcasm) The Final Release candidate of Meego 1.2 Developer edition for the n900 can be found here [meego.com] . Presumably this will become final-final shortly.

Re:Does it run on my n900? (1)

lsolano (398432) | more than 3 years ago | (#36192176)

I hope so as well.

However, after the leaked? teaser of the N9? [youtu.be] , maybe it will never be a official version for n900.

Re:Does it run on my n900? (1)

Microlith (54737) | more than 3 years ago | (#36192232)

An "official" version for the N900 was never promised. It has always been simply a developmental target, with a bit more effort put into the DE version.

Re:Does it run on my n900? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36192090)

Not being sarcastic. I have a N900. Could someone give me a brief overview of when and if I can upgrade to the MeeGo on my device? What reliably works and what doesn't?

Thank you.

Re:Does it run on my n900? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36192162)

No problem. Here's a handy link with all the details: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=n900+meego [lmgtfy.com]

Re:Does it run on my n900? (2)

CRCulver (715279) | more than 3 years ago | (#36192202)

Meego is meant for hardware more powerful than the N900's, which was already rather antiquated at the time of its release. While Meego can be installed on an N900, it's only meant for developers to try out Meego handset software on. As a user, you're better off installing the Maemo Community SSU [maemo.org] if you want to see further bug fixes and new functionality for your N900.

Re:Does it run on my n900? (1)

Reservoir Penguin (611789) | more than 3 years ago | (#36194164)

By antiquated you surely mean more powerful in both cpu and gpu than any iOS or Android phone?

Re:Does it run on my n900? (1)

CRCulver (715279) | more than 3 years ago | (#36194194)

I was thinking mostly of the lack of RAM. As for the GPU, aren't those drivers closed to Meego?

Re:Does it run on my n900? (2)

lsolano (398432) | more than 3 years ago | (#36192204)

Today, I would not recommend it. In fact, it stands clearly as a Developer Version.

If you want to 'upgrade' your n900, I'd recommend you to try CSSU [maemo.org] . Maybe you have already.

Re:Does it run on my n900? (1)

Teun (17872) | more than 3 years ago | (#36193354)

A couple of months ago I tried 1.1 and it was exceedingly, to the point of useless, slow.

As others already said it's meant for more powerful hardware.

Where's 1.2 for handsets? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36191860)

Why they are focusing on netbook/tablet/tablet-buried-in-a-dashboard variants?

Re:Where's 1.2 for handsets? (0)

tepples (727027) | more than 3 years ago | (#36191996)

Anonymous Coward wrote:

Why they are focusing on netbook/tablet/tablet-buried-in-a-dashboard variants?

Chrisq answered your question [slashdot.org] .

Version confusion? (1)

x1n933k (966581) | more than 3 years ago | (#36192012)

I am a little confused. I have a netbook with version 1.4. Have they decided to just call all versions 1.2 or just the core, especially since the netbook page no longer lists 1.4 updates?

I really liked MeeGo's interface on my netbook but the styling is kind of childish. The other downside is the lack of applications offered and 3rd party audio support.

[J]

Re:Version confusion? (2)

Microlith (54737) | more than 3 years ago | (#36192216)

I have a netbook with version 1.4. Have they decided to just call all versions 1.2 or just the core, especially since the netbook page no longer lists 1.4 updates?

There was never a 1.4 release. In fact, they only just released 1.2.

I really liked MeeGo's interface on my netbook but the styling is kind of childish.

All of MeeGo's user interfaces are merely references, intended to be augmented or replaced outright by 3rd parties that use the distribution.

The other downside is the lack of applications offered and 3rd party audio support.

A full distribution would need to adopt MeeGo as their base and build a full and proper repository for it (similar to Linux Mint basing itself off Ubuntu), same for 3rd party audio as MeeGo's kernel is absolutely stock upstream from kernel.org

Re:Version confusion? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36192688)

A full distribution would need to adopt MeeGo as their base and build a full and proper repository for it (similar to Linux Mint basing itself off Ubuntu), same for 3rd party audio as MeeGo's kernel is absolutely stock upstream from kernel.org

Only in a absolutely vague sense. The reference kernel is upstream with small patches.

The 'adaptation' kernels have a bunch of patches applied.

For example the moorestown kernel (tablet form factor):
http://build.meego.com/package/files?package=kernel-adaptation-mrst&project=devel%3Akernel

Especially the ac patchsets are quite large.

Re:Version confusion? (1)

Microlith (54737) | more than 3 years ago | (#36192888)

The patches have to be accepted upstream before they are allowed to be backported to the reference kernel. So while they may be patches to a kernel, the code has been pushed upstream and a newer kernel could be used.

The fact that things are getting pushed upstream at all is amazing. The dearth upstream activity from pretty much all Android vendors makes life hell for themselves and anyone interested in their hardware.

Re:Version confusion? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36199740)

They might be pushing kernel patches upstream but on the UI front things are completely different. I was speaking to a person trying to package MeeGo for Debian and he says that they forked many libraries already in Debian and break library backwards compatibility. His impression is that they are working as fast as possible, forking in the process, keeping their bug tracker closed and having lots of off-list discussion. He cited these posts as examples of these issues:

http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.handhelds.meego.devel/6417
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.handhelds.meego.devel/9899

Re:Version confusion? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36192274)

1.1.4?

Ahh, MeeGo... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36192256)

As a former Intel employee, I can assure you that the ground-level people at Intel think MeeGo is a fair target for any and all off-campus, lunchtime humor.

Is that cheering from the crowd? (1)

DavidinAla (639952) | more than 3 years ago | (#36192512)

I'm sure that all three people who still care about MeeGo were really excited about this.

Re:Is that cheering from the crowd? (1)

Microlith (54737) | more than 3 years ago | (#36192788)

It's the cheering from the Google crowd, over the fact that they have managed to derail other non-Google, truly open projects in favor of theirs that they have shown willing to close completely on a whim (which they defend with pathetic, stupid arguments) while treating the open source community that has grown up around it as second class.

Re:Is that cheering from the crowd? (1)

Desler (1608317) | more than 3 years ago | (#36193344)

while treating the open source community that has grown up around it as second class.

The open source community was always second-class when it came to Android. Android was and always has been "open source" for the benefit of the OHA and the phone manufacturers. That you people still fail to realize this is rather amusing. It's amusing that Google is so worshipped as an "open source friendly" company because they will occasionally throw a bone and some scraps out yet the vast majority of their software and revenue generating products are proprietary.

Re:Is that cheering from the crowd? (1)

operator_error (1363139) | more than 3 years ago | (#36194572)

Maybe you are referring to Google as an open-source company, because they have used so much of it internally?

Re:Is that cheering from the crowd? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36193424)

Are you just a RMS militant or a Nokia fanboy that's upset because their Mobile OS effort has failed? Grow up, idiot and quit blaming Google or Android for your issues. It is odd, though, how Microsoft somehow gets a flyer in your weak arguments.

Re:Is that cheering from the crowd? (1)

Microlith (54737) | more than 3 years ago | (#36193780)

Are you just a RMS militant or a Nokia fanboy that's upset because their Mobile OS effort has failed?

No, I like to have some independence from large corporations with vested interests that conflict with mine. I also like having open source things actually be open, rather than just "here you go, we are done with this."

Grow up, idiot

Mature, that one.

quit blaming Google or Android for your issues. It is odd, though, how Microsoft somehow gets a flyer in your weak arguments.

How does Microsoft come into this, again?

Re:Is that cheering from the crowd? (1)

Braino420 (896819) | more than 3 years ago | (#36195036)

No, I like to have some independence from large corporations with vested interests that conflict with mine. I also like having open source things actually be open, rather than just "here you go, we are done with this."

Are you trying to be hypocritical on purpose? "Here you go, we are done with this" is PRECISELY the attitude Nokia has with Maemo/Meego. I can understand you're upset; Nokia has turned Maemo/Meego into an also-ran and they now see more potential with WM7 (which I think is why everyone is making comments about MS, which you seem to be missing). Anyone who owned an N770 or an N800 knew this was coming. Many of the comments you have made also apply to Nokia and their attitude towards their community. In some cases, like your quote above, I thought you were talking ironically trying to defend Android. You just must be too new to the Maemo/Meego "community" to have figured it out yet, or you've selling something. Yes, some of their code is GPL'd; the stuff that they modified that was already GPL'd or the stuff that was created/GPL'd by outside developers.. For the longest time, they didn't even open the source for their own apps. I'm not sure if that is the case today, because I own an N800 and have since moved on right around the time where they stopped providing "official" support for my device, go figure. Oh ya, there's Mer, I'm sure it's very polished by now (~2 years later). Or maybe even the Meego ARM port (which was last updated almost a year ago) Oh wait, that's right, they tried to use only the open bits that Nokia released which left them with an unworkable system. See, I'm angry too and I will not be fooled again.

You are deluding yourself if you think Maemo/Meego is more open than Android. Both have closed firmware bits. But the thing is, with Android, developers can take the Android Open Source Project (AOSP) and keep the stock kernel from a device and change nearly everything else. I say nearly, because there are still some closed apps, but this is also true of Maemo/Meego. Even if this was possible with Maemo/Meego, there is simply not enough momentum behind it for outside developers to do this. Mer is proof of this. Whereas with Android, every device seems to have a few people willing to make mods for it and that includes backporting future versions that aren't released by carriers for those devices.

Throughout my time on the maemo user and devel lists, any official voice from Nokia had been absent, but you occasionally would get people with @nokia.com email addresses to act like they know what they are talking about but that provide more disruption than direction. Then when you ask them about it, they say they aren't representing Nokia in any way. Things like changing from hildon/GTK to QT and then dropping everything and saying Meego is the new thing doesn't help. Oh, they will support hildon on Meego? I'm sure that will look great and that the developer of said app has stuck around through the bullshit to give a damn anymore about updating the app to meet the standards of Nokia's flavor of the week.

But the issue is this, and the reason why you are angry that people jumped from Maemo/Meego to Android: Google has created Android but continues to be heavily involved with it's development in kernel, user space, and marketing, while, on the other hand, Nokia created an open source operating system, but then depended VERY HEAVILY on the community to develop the user space apps for it and treat it as a testbed for their "real products". In Nokia's case, "real products" seems to be referring to WM7 now. You are aware of this, right? Not even Nokia believes Maemo/Meego is ready for mainstream consumption and they treat it as the red headed stepchild. This makes Android seem much better polished and acceptable for mainstream use.

TL;DR:

I guess my point is, the only reason you see a difference between Maemo/Meego and Android is because the former comes with busybox installed by default, uses apt-get (oh wait, now rpm!) and allows root after downloading straight from the repos. This does not make one more open than the other and if legit rooting is your thing, then their ARE Google developer phones you can buy.

Re:Is that cheering from the crowd? (1)

Microlith (54737) | more than 3 years ago | (#36196022)

Nice rant.

I can understand you're upset

I believe you are infinitely more upset than I am.

Nokia has turned Maemo/Meego into an also-ran and they now see more potential with WM7 (which I think is why everyone is making comments about MS, which you seem to be missing).

And I don't believe any of that is true. I doubt they "see more potential with W[P]7," more likely their move onto it was forced and determined the moment Elop left Microsoft for Nokia. Saying that "Microsoft somehow gets a flyer" implies something that I'm not stating in the slightest (since I don't give a shit for closed, user-controlling platforms.)

Many of the comments you have made also apply to Nokia and their attitude towards their community

Right, and this is about MeeGo. Not Nokia, not Maemo.

See, I'm angry too and I will not be fooled again

Indeed, you're so blindingly angry that you refuse to see the differences.

Both have closed firmware bits.

Devices have closed firmware bits. MeeGo does not.

But the thing is, with Android, developers can take the Android Open Source Project (AOSP) and keep the stock kernel from a device and change nearly everything else.

And you can do the same thing with MeeGo. But unlike MeeGo, on a whim Google can (and has) withhold the source for it.

Mer is proof of this.

That's nice. Mer was based off Maemo. This is MeeGo, and is already infinitely more open than Maemo was.

the reason why you are angry that people jumped from Maemo/Meego to Android: Google has created Android but continues to be heavily involved with it's development in kernel

The reason I support MeeGo (not maemo) more than Android is because unlike Android, no one source controls everything. It's also directed by the Linux Foundation, which has a fundamental need to communicate with the community, whereas Google hides everything away until release.

, Nokia created an open source operating system, but then depended VERY HEAVILY on the community to develop the user space apps for it and treat it as a testbed for their "real products". In Nokia's case, "real products" seems to be referring to WM7 now. You are aware of this, right? Not even Nokia believes Maemo/Meego is ready for mainstream consumption and they treat it as the red headed stepchild. This makes Android seem much better polished and acceptable for mainstream use.

Blah blah Nokia blah blah blah Maemo blah blah. Nokia is walking away from MeeGo because Microsoft is basically running the show, and Nokia has proven that they were never competent. I think you're just so angry towards Nokia that everything they've ever touched seems deserving of your hatred and spite. And I'm amazed that people are attacking me for supporting what is fundamentally a mobile version of a traditional Linux distro that pulls in from good, working open source projects. On Slashdot, even.

I guess my point is, the only reason you see a difference between Maemo/Meego and Android is because the former comes with busybox installed by default, uses apt-get (oh wait, now rpm!) and allows root after downloading straight from the repos. This does not make one more open than the other and if legit rooting is your thing, then their ARE Google developer phones you can buy.

It's much more than that, but since Nokia was involved at some point you're blinded and refuse to look.

Re:Is that cheering from the crowd? (1)

Braino420 (896819) | more than 3 years ago | (#36197766)

Right, and this is about MeeGo. Not Nokia, not Maemo

I see, you don't think there is a difference between Maemo and MeeGo or a relationship to Nokia. Here is a quote form the MeeGo about page, first line, actually:

MeeGo is an open source, Linux project which brings together the Moblin project, headed up by Intel, and Maemo, by Nokia, into a single open source activity.

A large part of the base of MeeGo comes from Nokia's Maemo and it is supposed to support legacy Maemo apps. In addition to this, Nokia N900 is the only phone I know of that can even run MeeGo. Do you know of another model that people can actually buy? The "Technical Steering Group" of MeeGo mentions people only from Intel and Nokia. Intel has given up on even marketing MeeGo as a phone OS with their main phone partner, Nokia, baling out, and with LG looking to do (done?) the same.

Or are you comparing the MeeGo open source project to what actually ends up on Android phones? You couldn't be comparing MeeGo to AOSP, because they both have Open Source licenses, or all we talking about differences between licenses? It's the actual devices and carriers that make Android closed, because MeeGo has neither I don't believe it's a fair comparison.

And you can do the same thing with MeeGo.

You can do the same thing with MeeGo, but nobody does...

But unlike MeeGo, on a whim Google can (and has) withhold the source for it.

Granted, Google has withheld the source for the user space stuff in Honeycomb, because they can. What licensing provisions has MeeGo made on this front that I am unaware of? Because this is what MeeGo's license policy says about user space stuff:

The User Experience license policy, on the other hand, is driven by satisfying the needs of operating system and device vendor users of MeeGo to help them in fast adoption and in providing the best value to their customers. A policy of primarily permissive BSD-style open source licenses and secondarily copyleft licenses (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyleft) meets these needs best.

So, as I've been saying, the same thing could happen to MeeGo IF it ever gets any "device vendors".

The reason I support MeeGo (not maemo) more than Android is because unlike Android, no one source controls everything.

MeeGo is currently directed by only one company... But if we are talking about the open source projects; as with any, they aren't controlled by antything.

And I'm amazed that people are attacking me for supporting what is fundamentally a mobile version of a traditional Linux distro that pulls in from good, working open source projects. On Slashdot, even.

Because everyone else thinks you are talking about what IS the stillborn child of Intel and Nokia but you are talking about an Open Source project with NO implementations. Not only this, but you are attacking Android, a large phone and tablet contender, which is a popular, open as MeeGo, project.

Re:Is that cheering from the crowd? (1)

exomondo (1725132) | more than 3 years ago | (#36213204)

It's the cheering from the Google crowd, over the fact that they have managed to derail other non-Google, truly open projects in favor of theirs

They haven't derailed anything. The beauty of open source is that if it's worth continuing development on then that is what will happen, if Meego fails then all it proves is that it wasn't good enough.

Gotta love these names (0)

TangoMargarine (1617195) | more than 3 years ago | (#36192694)

Subj: Molo drops Empoor support on Ekkienong Doodad
by Jacques Chester (151652) on Thursday February 19 2009, @10:48AM (#26916357 [slashdot.org] )

In a shocking twist, Mknnnr was also found to have backstabbed Hoolihooli in a deal with Farnanook.

In unrelated news, it has been found that 98% of "Web 2.0" business names are created by cats walking on keyboards. Footage at 11.

It's also a barrel of monkeys when the summary not only doesn't tell you what the thing is for, *at all*, but also doesn't even give you a link to their web site or Wikipedia or anything. Time to bring up the old Google...

Re:Gotta love these names (1)

TangoMargarine (1617195) | more than 3 years ago | (#36192702)

Arrrrgh...just saw the link. Frak me.

Re:Gotta love these names (1)

TangoMargarine (1617195) | more than 3 years ago | (#36192748)

Wow, even the About page on their website barely tells you what it's for, what with all the marketing-speak and fuzzy, warm feeling. *stops responding to self*

Re:Gotta love these names (1)

Microlith (54737) | more than 3 years ago | (#36192782)

At this point I'm convinced that you're illiterate.

Re:Gotta love these names (1)

TangoMargarine (1617195) | more than 3 years ago | (#36192998)

No, I'm actually very conservative. *rimshot*

Change the name back! (1)

CarsonChittom (2025388) | more than 3 years ago | (#36192868)

Since Nokia decided it didn't want anything to do with MeeGo, Intel should change the name back to Moblin. Or anything other than MeeGo, really, which is quite possibly one of the stupidest names I've ever heard.

Check out the N9 teaser video (1)

CreamyG31337 (1084693) | more than 3 years ago | (#36193234)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8Tiua4BNQo [youtube.com]
This is running MeeGo, and we were able to confirm the screen is 720p [maemo.org] and has a 12MP camera. So, that's pretty exciting...

Re:Check out the N9 teaser video (1)

CreamyG31337 (1084693) | more than 3 years ago | (#36193406)

I should mention that this is the "developer device", there's another one without keyboard that is faster or something. Nokia employees are hinting like crazy.
It could be the one [nokiagadgets.com] from the Red Steel trailer.

Re:Check out the N9 teaser video (1)

the linux geek (799780) | more than 3 years ago | (#36193828)

Is that MeeGo, or Maemo 6/Harmattan? My understanding was that M6 wouldn't be built on a MeeGo core, but would just offer a degree of API compatibility.

Re:Check out the N9 teaser video (1)

Microlith (54737) | more than 3 years ago | (#36193854)

It is Harmattan. It was already well under way before MeeGo came into existence.

Re:Check out the N9 teaser video (1)

fatphil (181876) | more than 3 years ago | (#36195214)

... before MeeGo *blinked* into existence.

also known as... (1)

meerling (1487879) | more than 3 years ago | (#36193452)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mi-go

>^_^< I can't help but smile when people choose names that are already associated with something else, even if they vary the spelling. (When the Teabaggers hit the new a few years ago I roflmao'd till I turned blue!) You know folks, you can Google this stuff before you publicize your chosen names...

Re:also known as... (1)

Outtascope (972222) | more than 3 years ago | (#36193934)

The Mi-go are large, pinkish, fungoid, crustacean-like entities the size of a man with a "convoluted ellipsoid" composed of pyramided, fleshy rings and covered in antennae where a head would normally be.

Lovecraft references are never accidental.

Re:also known as... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36194624)

You realize, of course, that they called themselves the Tea Party, and that was other people who later called them Teabaggers.

That's like saying "Don't call yourself dog walkers because someone will call you dog fuckers."

But yea, it's a bad name. Makes it sound like a child's toy. Like the OS for a Speak-and-Spell.

Re:also known as... (1)

sesshomaru (173381) | more than 3 years ago | (#36194838)

I just assumed that was deliberate. I mean the symbol for BSD is a Devil after all, why not make an OS named after a Lovecraftian monster?

I use EasyPeasy though. Maybe I'll switch.

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