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German Police Seize German Pirate Party Servers

timothy posted more than 2 years ago | from the perhaps-they-got-the-names-backwards dept.

Crime 121

fph il quozientatore writes "The German police have seized today the servers from the German Pirate Party after an attack on the French company EDF. Apparently they are looking for evidence of allegiance with the Anonymous group. In completely unrelated news, the website of the German police was down this afternoon."

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121 comments

Police Seize Pirate Party Servers? (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36196964)

This would've been better if Police Pocket Pirate Party Processors Punctually.

Re:Police Seize Pirate Party Servers? (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36197044)

Police Pocket Pirate Party Processors Punctually.

Postulating Past Prank Participation

Re:Police Seize Pirate Party Servers? (4, Funny)

Hatta (162192) | more than 2 years ago | (#36197058)

Police procure Pirate Party processors. Probably probing protester pact.

Re:Police Seize Pirate Party Servers? (2)

Pf0tzenpfritz (1402005) | more than 2 years ago | (#36197288)

The funniest part is that it was pecause of a publicly availaple EtherPad...

Re:Police Seize Pirate Party Servers? (3, Interesting)

Husgaard (858362) | more than 2 years ago | (#36198540)

This is the same as confiscating all of Googles servers because somebody used Google Docs for an illegal purpose. The police did not even try to contact the party before taking their servers. And they did not just take the server that might have been used for an illegal purpose, but all servers at the site.

The timing is interesting, as the DDoS attack that allegedly was planned on this public EtherPad installation took place months ago. And now - two days before election day in a federal state - they confiscate almost all their servers.

Re:Police Seize Pirate Party Servers? (2)

Sene (1794986) | more than 2 years ago | (#36201202)

That's german police for you. They do most amazing things without caring about the reality.

Re:Police Seize Pirate Party Servers? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36201528)

Must... resist... Nazi... comparison...

Reminds me of a Joke (5, Funny)

labnet (457441) | more than 2 years ago | (#36198706)

In Heaven: The cooks are French, The policemen are English, The mechanics are German, The lovers are Italian, The bankers are Swiss.
In Hell: The cooks are English, The policemen are German, The mechanics are French, The lovers are Swiss, The bankers are Italian.

Re:Reminds me of a Joke (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36198746)

The barmen are of course Irish in both.

Re:Reminds me of a Joke (2)

Carewolf (581105) | more than 2 years ago | (#36200340)

No, in hell the barmen are swedish and so are the bar-prices.

Barman: Are you sure you sure you should be having ANOTHER beer? you have already had ONE!

Re:Police Seize Pirate Party Servers? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36201072)

Post-Preussian Police and Post-Preussian Pirate Party that is.

dark matter hunter/killers needn't look far (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36196970)

out there, not far from here, word is, we're creating a black hole of biblical proportions, right here. it certainly takes a lot of dark energy, to destroy a perfect habitat, atmosphere, previously unpolluted planet, population.

Mayhem only begets mayhem (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36196980)

This is what happens when you hack for the sake of hacking. I don't know if the German police really had reason to believe that Anonymous was related to the pirate party, but when you open Pandora's box, these things can be expected.

Re:Mayhem only begets mayhem (5, Interesting)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 2 years ago | (#36197504)

So when some group attacks some company we seize the property of a random pro-liberty group?

Is that your understanding of democracy?

Re:Mayhem only begets mayhem (-1, Troll)

Darinbob (1142669) | more than 2 years ago | (#36198414)

Pro-pirate is not pro-liberty. Look up the meaning of the word "pirate" that these guys are trying to emulate. These are pro-liberty only in the sense that they wish to have more liberty to break the law and enable others to break the law.

If they actually wish to change the law instead of merely breaking it, then they should boycott the media that is copy protected. That is do not steal the music/games/video but instead refuse to listen/play/watch. As long as they continue acting like common thieves they will get zero respect from the public but if they start a boycott that catches on then they'll start making headway. But this won't happen since the vast majority of pirate party supporters just want the free stuff.

Re:Mayhem only begets mayhem (5, Insightful)

VortexCortex (1117377) | more than 2 years ago | (#36198680)

Pro-pirate is not pro-liberty. Look up the meaning of the word "pirate" that these guys are trying to emulate.

They are not trying to "emulate" the term Pirate -- The pro-copyright corporations began using the term as a derogatory label (hopefuly having negative connotaion), the term stuck, and so we throw it in their faces.

These are pro-liberty only in the sense that they wish to have more liberty to break the law and enable others to break the law.

The "law" is unjust. Copyright is not required, per constitution, it is allowed, solely for the betterment of society as a whole. It is an outdated and over-broad, in the time that it was first allowed the founding fathers thought thought it should last only around 10 to 14 years. Now, in an era when not only big businesses have copy machines (nearly any one has many), the laws have been twisted to harm society, and extended for TWO GENERATIONS. My lifetime +70 years -- Beyond the life expectancy of my children!

If they actually wish to change the law instead of merely breaking it, then they should boycott the media that is copy protected. That is do not steal the music/games/video but instead refuse to listen/play/watch.

Yes, we want "free" stuff, like our freedom of speech and freedom of expression back. We don't want the restriction of only being able to legally share information that is over 100 years old. Freedom to sing songs publicly and share knowledge and information with our neighbors. The black people of America, and their supporters, had to stand up for their rights when Jim Crow was the LAW. Occasionally this means breaking the fucking unjust, oppressive, ridiculous law -- you dolt! Rosa Parks; Ring any bells!?! (sorry, excuse the rage -- ignorance is abhorrent to me)

As long as they continue acting like common thieves they will get zero respect from the public but if they start a boycott that catches on then they'll start making headway. But this won't happen since the vast majority of pirate party supporters just want the free stuff.

When your civil rights are abused it is your duty to peacefully protest -- What a better way to protest peacefully than to participate in the free sharing of ideas and information with your friends. No one is "stealing" anything. The only thing that has been taken away is the freedom to sing, say, write, or copy anything you want. We allowed aurthors a limited monopoly over their works to keep the greedy publishers in check. Now, the publishers force contracts on the authors or else the work doesn't get published, and these contracts take the rights of the authors and give them to the publishers.

We've tried the civil protest route... Hell, it this case We Have A POLITICAL PARTY, and yet the pockets of the corporations are deeper still than our own. Not participating in the society we helped create is not an option. If you can think of any more peaceful a protest than having a network connection and two computers duplicating 1s and 0s, please, FUCKING LET ME KNOW!

If it weren't for free sharing of ideas human society and the very languages we use that enable us to be more than just emotional animals would not have formed. It is in our very nature to share knowledge and information, to outlaw such things is the very definition of a police state. (Now, there's a fucking term it would do you well to look up!)

Re:Mayhem only begets mayhem (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36198888)

Rosa Parks never whined that she was being sent to jail. She and other civil rights activists knew they'd be arrested and willingly put up with it. I don't see many modern activists with the same attitude. You can earn respect through dignity. I don't see the pirates doing anything to earn respect.

Re:Mayhem only begets mayhem (1)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 2 years ago | (#36200660)

Rosa Parks was at the end of a century long battle for civil rights for the non-white minorities, do you really want to wait for a century 'til copyright and privacy erosion gets so unbearable that facing jail time isn't a deterrent anymore? I don't know if you noticed it, but the US were on the verge of a civil war in the 60s, I doubt this would end well today, especially without the Soviets that require our government to pretend they're the good guys and that they actually have any interest in our liberties.

Re:Mayhem only begets mayhem (2)

sourcerror (1718066) | more than 2 years ago | (#36200770)

" I don't see many modern activists with the same attitude. "

Yeah, they all comment anonymous.

Re:Mayhem only begets mayhem (2)

CTU (1844100) | more than 2 years ago | (#36199882)

I could not have said it better myself.

It is such a shame when governments use any excuse to protect there bribe money...and you can't say the the RIAA and the MAFIAA and such are not giving lots of money to politicians who act for them in the government.

Re:Mayhem only begets mayhem (1)

91degrees (207121) | more than 2 years ago | (#36200414)

They are not trying to "emulate" the term Pirate -- The pro-copyright corporations began using the term as a derogatory label (hopefuly having negative connotaion), the term stuck, and so we throw it in their faces.

The term "pirate" for an unauthorised copy predates copyright. Hardly something we can blame on the modern media cartels. And why would they use that term? The public perception of a pirate is Jack Sparrow or the Dread Pirate Roberts. Even the piratical villains like Long John Silver are pretty damn suave.

Aside from that, good explanation.

Re:Mayhem only begets mayhem (1, Interesting)

master_p (608214) | more than 2 years ago | (#36201154)

Your post is totally hyporcritic. You put freedom of expression and copyright in the same context, which is totally wrong: copyright has nothing to do with the freedom of expression; you are free to express yourself as much as you want, perhaps more free than any other time in history. Enjoying the works of others without their consent is not freedom of expression, it is a violation of the rights of other people to make their works available in the way they see fit.

The only reason you wrote the above is that somehow you feel alarmed that you cannot copy software, movies and songs as freely as you used to.You don't give a rat's ass about freedom of expression, because if you trully did, then you (and people like you) would protest for a lot of other cases of freedom of expression being violated.

Enjoying the works of others without obeying their terms of usage is illegal. Just like we slashdotters complain so much about free software being used illegally in commercial settings, and we cry foul each time the GPL is violated, so can the song writers, movie producers and software developers complain when their terms of usage are violated. You cannot complain that a company violated the GPL, while at the same time you download the latest movies from torrent. In both cases, some people produced something with specific terms of usage that must be respected.

As for copying those 1s and 0s, an item does not have to have a physical form to be considered a product. Suppose that you have an idea for a new way to produce energy that you worked really hard all your life on. Wouldn't you like to be able to enjoy the fruits of your labor? would't it be unfair to you, after all the difficulties you went through, if someone came along and simply copied your paper, claiming "freedom of expression"? then you would not be able to enjoy thee fruits of your labor! therefore, illegally enjoying digital goods is no different than stealing? in both cases, someone is derived from something. When you steal something, the owner is deprived of the item, when you pirate something, the owner is deprived of the value of the pirated item.

Shame on you for what you wrote. I know this post will be condemned to oblivion, because it goes against the line of thinking of the majority, but someoen had to post a rebuttal.

Re:Mayhem only begets mayhem (3, Insightful)

cynyr (703126) | more than 2 years ago | (#36201740)

I can not post a video to youtube expressing my like or dislike of a few short clips of a moive/song....

I can get hassled by the "owners" of a large metal object in the middle of a public park (the bean in chicago), for taking pictures of it, to share with those that are unable to visit the free park.

Suppose that you have an idea for a new way to produce energy that you worked really hard all your life on. Wouldn't you like to be able to enjoy the fruits of your labor?

Make a working prototype, and patent it. This has nothing to do with copyright at all. Also no patents on ideas, methods, or other non physical goods.

illegally enjoying digital goods is no different than stealing? in both cases, someone is derived from something. When you steal something, the owner is deprived of the item, when you pirate something, the owner is deprived of the value of the pirated item.

But the stream of 1s and 0s does not it's self have value. It can be recreated at any time for marginal cost(you could argue that if I did download it from a server of the artist, that I should be responsible for the bill for the bandwidth used to do that. That would be fair, so here is the $0.002 that I owe for the 2MB song. I would be unable to otherwise aquire the "thing" how did I do any harm? In fact i may end up helping if i like it and share it with many friends, and some of them have the means/will to buy it, but would not have otherwise known about it. There are a great many music artists making a decent living while giving all their songs for free on the internet in high quality.

Now I would not say that there is not a place for copyright, patents, trademarks, "freedom of expression", and whatnot, but there needs to be some balance there. 140 years (unless assigned to a company that lives for 400) is a bit extreme, why should you make money all your life, and for the entire lives of your children just because you thought something. I think lots of things at work everyday (Custom HVAC equipment), but yet the company only gets paid when the gear is sold to the customer. Maybe we should try leasing out or gear with terms like,

"A fee of no less than the value of 1oz of gold on ${DATE} shall be paid for every person hour that this equipment provides service. If this is a process application, the fee shall be the value of .25oz of gold on ${DATE} per hour of service. If this is a datacenter application, the fee shall be the value of 2oz gold on ${DATE}, per server per hour of service. All fees shall be provided at the first of the month, and shall be no less than 60 hours of service per month for 140 years from date of purchase or final comisioning which ever is later, and shall start on date of shipment to authorized agent."

If we tried that we would be laughed out of the market.

You do know why no restaurants sing "happy birthday" don't you? right because it is under copyright and they would need to pay up to sing it.

Re:Mayhem only begets mayhem (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36198754)

You clearly have no clue what the Pirate Party is about. It is not pro-pirate, as defined by the MAFIAA; it is anti-IP. The concept of Intellectual Property is fundamentally abhorrant, and severely infringes on peoples intellectual liberties. This is about far more than the copying of movies, it is about the liberty to think freely. To invent or create freely, without being mired in lawsuits, where the parasites who "own" some idea demand rent for any and everything.

One may be the first to have an idea, but chances are nearly certain that they won't be the last. Granting the first-to-file or first-to-invent (which is more often not debatable), an unlimited monopoly is starkly in opposition to the public good. It puts a huge damper on what could otherwise be exponential progress, in order to enrich a select few.

Granting a monopoly on an idea is extremely detrimental to society.

Re:Mayhem only begets mayhem (1)

cavreader (1903280) | more than 2 years ago | (#36199068)

"The concept of Intellectual Property is fundamentally abhorrent, and severely infringes on peoples intellectual liberties. " This declaration wins the BS of the week award. Oh wait, I take that back this "it is about the liberty to think freely" that tops the list.. What IP is preventing you from thinking freely? Some IP restrictions are beneficial and there are those of a more questionable nature but people or companies should at least be able to re-coup their expenses when developing and distributing their IP. Same deal for copyrights for those who produce the books and movies. There is a alot of BS going on in the tech industry with regards to source code and algorithm patent claims. As well as the methods used in to handle certain ordinary and obvious actions like the "1 Click sales button". These kind of actions deserve to be criticized and dealt with but I seriously doubt they are inhibiting people from thinking up new stuff.

Re:Mayhem only begets mayhem (2)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 2 years ago | (#36200690)

Maybe some of the more "radical" PP proponents consider IP-laws a horror, but please try to see the whole party, not just its fringe groups.

Most PP members don't want to throw IP-laws out the window (some of them are actually protecting YOU, the customer. At least they still do, don't count on it after the next change), but they want a reform back to the balance IP-laws were supposed to grant, to balance the interests of producer and customer. Until the advent of IP-laws, inventing and content creating was a tricky business where time was essential. You had to get a head start on your competitor or he'd simply take your research and use it, and in the end nobody would research but simply wait and copy.

IP-laws and copyright are not by themselves a bad thing, but they are out of check. 70 years after a creator's death is simply insane. No other business can enjoy this kind of protection. Could you see a bricklayer's grandson charge rent from you from your own house because his grandfather built it?

The problem isn't so much that an inventor gets the exclusive right to his invention for some time. The problem is that this time is stretched too far. When copyright started and distribution took a lot of time (you had to get your manuscript printed, it had to be distributed...) copyright protection was a few years and you really had to hurry to benefit from it. Today, with instant creation, multiplication and distribution, copyright protection is longer than ever before. THIS is what's out of sync with reality and this is what needs changing.

Re:Mayhem only begets mayhem (2)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 2 years ago | (#36200648)

What's in a name? Have you looked at party names throughout the times? When has a party ever stood true to its name? Most of the former communist parties had "people's" somewhere in their name. Have you looked up the meaning of "people" and how little it had to do with how these parties acted?

The name "pirate" was adopted when the copyright holders started their blanket accusations of everyone who dares to think invasive copyright and reduction of consumer rights is a bad thing must be interested in "pirating" their content. And everyone who refused to buy it and hence reduced their sales must have "pirated" it as well because it's unthinkable that we can exist without their hypecrap. The term "pirate" was thrown at us, the consumer who dared to do what you suggest: Abstain from buying things we do not want, refuse to pay for content we cannot use the way we enjoy it.

The Pirate Parties just picked up the term and ran with it. In this context, a "Pirate Party" is a party that takes this (I don't like the word "battle" in this context, but it has turned into one) battle between content creator and content user into a political agenda. In a quite similar way how the Green parties turned the ecological movement of the 80s into a political platform.

What "Pirates" want is not a free pass to break the law. What they want, and this is an agenda I can and do support, is to return to a copyright law that does what it was supposed to do: Protect the interests of producers AND customers, so both can coexist as supplier and consumer of content.

A boycott first of all requires unity. And that is something you will not be able to achieve, this is why the free market system doesn't work: The demand side is too weak.

Re:Mayhem only begets mayhem (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36200330)

Pro-liberty? I'd say pro-piracy.

Re:Mayhem only begets mayhem (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36197994)

This is what happens when you hack for the sake of hacking.

Ah, yes. Hacking for the sake of profit is definitely a better alternative there.

Sigh (4, Insightful)

mseeger (40923) | more than 2 years ago | (#36196998)

Idiots on both sides.... But we can say: the police started it...

Taking down the central server of political party just 2 days ahead of elections is not nice.

CU, Martin

Re:Sigh (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36197156)

Taking down the central server of political party just 2 days ahead of elections is not nice.

...but if the PP-G is smart, they have a great opportunity to get some more people to vote... tweet: SEIZE-BACK... RETRO STYLE! Actually go to a booth and vote Pirate Party! #servergate

But then in German of course. Maybe from #6 they can become #5.

Re:Sigh (1)

ustolemyname (1301665) | more than 2 years ago | (#36197196)

Hmmm... two days does seem like the right amount of time for a social media campaign to grow really big over a single issue, but not long enough for it to fizzle out.

Re:Sigh (5, Interesting)

Yvanhoe (564877) | more than 2 years ago | (#36197242)

The German pirate party was probably not involved in anything. They host an etherpad service (piratenpad.de) that was working well and provided anonymity. Some attackers probably used it to share data without the PP's knowledge.

Also many sources say that shutting down all servers of the political party was really exaggerated and that there will likely be legal consequences. It might sound like a joke, but Germans are a bit sensitive when seeing the police raid a political party. I think that this accident will, rightfully, help the pirate party.

Re:Sigh (-1, Flamebait)

blair1q (305137) | more than 2 years ago | (#36197548)

Here's a hint for people who are innocuous: don't call yourselves "pirates."

Re:Sigh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36197900)

the European "Pirate" Parties have absolutely nothing to do with copyright infringement.

Re:Sigh (1)

artor3 (1344997) | more than 2 years ago | (#36197990)

Uhh... their primary stated purpose is copyright reform. They certainly aren't calling themselves "Pirate" parties in solidarity with the Somalis.

Re:Sigh (4, Insightful)

Squiddie (1942230) | more than 2 years ago | (#36198398)

That may be, but they are trying to reform the law, not break it. Or should that be a crime too?

Re:Sigh (4, Insightful)

Daniel Dvorkin (106857) | more than 2 years ago | (#36199374)

Here's a hint for people who are innocuous: don't call yourselves "pirates."

It's pretty common for insults to be adopted as terms of pride: "yankee" and "redneck" come to mind, along with all sorts of racial slurs, and sometimes the word even becomes the official name of the group, as with "Methodist." So the Pirate Party is following in an old and largely successful tradition. Also, since it's self-evidently absurd to equate copying bits on a hard drive with armed robbery on the high seas, they might as well have fun with it; how else are you supposed to respond to something so over-the-top?

Re:Sigh (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36200392)

hot damn, i'm gonna go start the Yankee Redneck Methodist party right now!

Re:Sigh (2)

Znork (31774) | more than 2 years ago | (#36200448)

Perhaps the Tories should heed that as well, considering the origin of the term as irish outlaw or brigand. Or perhaps the rather disparaging origin of Whig as cattle driver.

Appropriating disparaging names has a long political history.

Re:Sigh (1)

cyberfin (1454265) | more than 2 years ago | (#36200062)

I absolutely agree with the poster. Also, Germany is a country where privacy laws are taken über-seriously (pun intended). They also take crime very seriously. Whoever made the call to send the police in must have either balls of steel, perfectly knowing the media shitstorm that would ensue.

Nazis (5, Funny)

Hatta (162192) | more than 2 years ago | (#36197042)

What a bunch of Nazis!

Re:Nazis (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36197134)

What a bunch of Nazis!

the jews have returned to owning all major media and international banking and disproportionately running all universities and colleges.

it's not just a stereotype. look it up yourself. where's the diversity we keep praising?

sarah silverman can rule over me anytime (2)

decora (1710862) | more than 2 years ago | (#36197206)

all i have to say about this is thank god. i welcome our new jewish overlords.

Re:Nazis (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36197492)

the jews have returned to owning all major media and international banking and disproportionately running all universities and colleges.

it's not just a stereotype. look it up yourself. where's the diversity we keep praising?

Who cares?

Re:Nazis (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36199662)

Mel, is that you?

Re:Nazis (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36197140)

What a bunch of Nazis!

"Today the Pirate Party, tomorrow the world!"

Re:Nazis (2)

Dan541 (1032000) | more than 2 years ago | (#36197400)

This is why you don't host servers in the same country as the government that you're challenging.

Re:Nazis (2)

a_n_d_e_r_s (136412) | more than 2 years ago | (#36200776)

It was Anonymous that was using the german pirateparty etherpad server for their coordination.

The takedown was ordered from France... the police was not after the Pirateparty but Anonymous.

Re:Nazis (2)

Dan541 (1032000) | more than 2 years ago | (#36200998)

Why not just ask the Pirate Party to take the pad offline?

I don't buy it. The police don't shut down phone exchanges just to stop a drug deal. Sounds like a scapegoat to me.

Re:Nazis (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36201738)

I don't buy it. The police don't shut down phone exchanges just to stop a drug deal.

I'd bet $20 that that's only true because it never occurred to them that would be possible.
Police officers are not hired for their brains, and these people are definitely a few megabytes shy of the minimum requirements.

Johnny Depp to play Jens Seipenbusch (0)

retroworks (652802) | more than 2 years ago | (#36197048)

The movie will be 15 minutes long, with soundtrack by Andy Warhol's Velvet Underground. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jens_Seipenbusch [wikipedia.org].

Seriously, I'm not sure there is not enough here (unless it's in the German language, second link) to tell whether this is newsworthy or whether Jens lives in his mother's basement and sent a wormy email.

im sick of the mom basement stereotype (1)

decora (1710862) | more than 2 years ago | (#36197180)

some of us live in our own basements thank you very much. not all basements are 'moms' basements

Not mom's basement == Dad got custody (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36198222)

not all basements are 'moms' basements

When most of the kiddies around here claim its not Mom's basement all they really mean is that Dad got custody of the kids after the divorce. :-)

Re:Johnny Depp to play Jens Seipenbusch (5, Insightful)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 2 years ago | (#36197562)

Not newsworthy?

The servers of a party that has online liberty as one of its core agendas have been seized, with an allegation of being involved in an attack against some French nuke power company (who, in turn, has been accused of rather questionable security and even more questionable garbage disposal). From what it looks now, ONLY this party's servers, despite being most likely nothing more than the equivalent of a TOR exit node that has been abused.

And all of that a few days before an election.

Sorry, if that's not newsworthy, I guess personal liberty and its limitation by certain "interest groups" really isn't an issue for nerds anymore.

Re:Johnny Depp to play Jens Seipenbusch (1)

retroworks (652802) | more than 2 years ago | (#36197676)

I just meant it is not evident from the article. Western press routinely reports false flags of government intervention (false reports that Bob Dylan's song list was censored in China last month, e.g.) I don't know, maybe there is something going on which is sinister, but it is in the interest of people who care that we not react to false alarms. I did not see anything in the article that told me whether the server was a 486 with a spam trojan, or a legitimate party mailing system abusively taken days prior to an election, or a massive denial of service machine aimed at shutting down the French online porn industry... There's just not enough in the article to form a strong opinion about.

Re:Johnny Depp to play Jens Seipenbusch (1)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 2 years ago | (#36200606)

Cui bono?

From such a move, i.e. launching a false flag op and pretending it is so when it ain't, there is only one possible beneficiary: The Pirate Party. Who else would have an interest to accuse "the powers that are" of trying to suppress a small party? No, not even the opposing parties do, why would they want to give the limelight to a party that is their direct competitor for votes?

Plus, the people interested in the PP are usually young, internet-savvy and put a very strong emphasis on civil liberties and personal freedom, and are generally quite fed up with lying. And such a lie is usually VERY quickly debunked, the police only had to say "there was no raid, what are they talking about", and believe me, they have a WAY bigger news outlet than the PP. Plus a lot of parties would enjoy pushing this "they lied to you and tried to blame us" topic 'til everyone has heard about it.

Sorry, but it's very, very unlikely to be a false flag op. There's very little, if any, interest outside of Germany for this raid (hell, it's not even being reported in the mainstream media there as far as I could tell), so why would anyone from abroad try something like that?

Re:Johnny Depp to play Jens Seipenbusch (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36197824)

Hosting anonymizing services means you have to take full responsibility.
The anonymous Internet is a thing of days gone by, and the reactive forces that seek to return to those days of glory are outnumbered by realists and economists...

It's even quasi-illegal to have unprotected Wi-Fi in Germany, so this is a rather expected move. Also, in information matters, the police have never been of the "seize as little as necessary" type, but generally of the "take anything that is shiny or blinking or flashy or smelling weird" imposition. Considering that they may be raiding criminals, this is probably the only valid approach, as otherwise evidence might go amiss.

Really, no surprise here.

Re:Johnny Depp to play Jens Seipenbusch (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36200992)

Also, in information matters, the police have never been of the "seize as little as necessary" type, but generally of the "take anything that is shiny or blinking or flashy or smelling weird" imposition. Considering that they may be raiding criminals, this is probably the only valid approach, as otherwise evidence might go amiss.

Really, no surprise here.

Yeah normally they did not just take the computers, but also the monitors, printers ... how smart.

Hmm... (5, Interesting)

The Master Control P (655590) | more than 2 years ago | (#36197094)

The official state apparatus being used to harass opposition parties? In Germany? Days before an election? No, I'm not touching this one with a ten foot pole.

how about an eleven foot pole? (1)

decora (1710862) | more than 2 years ago | (#36197170)

you can take a ten foot pole, and then find the cardboard from a roll of paper towels, and kind of stick it in the end.

Re:Hmm... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36197254)

How about a Pole that's say... 39 - 45 in length?

Re:Hmm... (1)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 2 years ago | (#36197574)

I have a very tasteless analogy to the "HAN SHOT FIRST" meme on my mind now... I guess I'll refrain from posting it.

Re:Hmm... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36197934)

Invoking Godwin's law already;)

Mentioned it once. Think I got away with it (2)

Hognoxious (631665) | more than 2 years ago | (#36200020)

I'm not touching this one with a ten foot pole.

Then try a Belgian or a Dutchman. Then maybe a Frenchman or a Russian.

Brits are off, I'm afraid.

Re:Mentioned it once. Think I got away with it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36200184)

Rules on insulting countries in europe: If it is a neighbouring country go all out, for example, the dutch make fun of the belgiums and the germans, and slightly less of the french. The brits are a bir special because they are across the water.

So, a dutchman, belgian, or frenchman would do fine.

ross perot bollixed by stuxnut virus in texas (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36197174)

that was a different canpain

Just like the good old days (5, Insightful)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 2 years ago | (#36197190)

Point a finger at your competition/enemy and make some unfounded claims about 'crimes against the state', and the police come in and take care of the problem for you.

This remind anyone of something? Like Poland late 1939?

Re:Just like the good old days (2, Insightful)

jhoegl (638955) | more than 2 years ago | (#36197256)

Or you know... the Jews being the reason Germany lost WW1. o.O
Or today, anything on Fox News.

Re:Just like the good old days (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36197606)

I'm not sure that they were scapegoated as being the reason Germany lost WWI. They were blamed for the indebtedness that Germany came under after WWI.. you know..

It might not be that far fetched to consider it happening in the US either if the currency/banking system collapses and it becomes hard for people to buy food.. that anger will be directed somewhere you know.. might not take long for people to figure out Benjamin "Shalom" Bernanke, Greenspans, and the *feins, *steins, *smiths, *bergs in top positions at banks are Jewish..

Re:Just like the good old days (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36198216)

Great to see that the fine old "Germans = nazis" reflex is well and alive. Pavlov would be proud!

Of course, reading the very first sentence of TFA would have shown that it was the French police that instigated this, but let's not get the facts in the way of promoting nationalistic stereotypes, eh?

Re:Just like the good old days (2)

Jesus_666 (702802) | more than 2 years ago | (#36198322)

That's not a problem. The Germans are French Nazis.

And yes, I can say that because I'm German. Victoire intact! *marches off to the west to make France a part of France*

What goes around comes around (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36197262)

Gotta admit, it's amusing seeing other people and authorities so powerless.
The funny thing is, to avoid being attacked all you have to do is be an ethical business that actually cares about the people.
I'm not saying it's right to do mess with piddly websites. It's only a website after all. But It's definitely wrong to be a bad business or entity.
You could argue that they are sort of like an invisible police. But then again that's what america thinks it is too, except publicly.
There's no country out there where we don't meddle with if there's any kind of profit to be made, advantage gained, or trying to make sure *bad guys* aren't doing anything wrong, a million miles away.

More like "Police Party Poopers" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36197298)

These Police are such buzz kills

"Allegiance" to an abstract idea, eh? (0)

mykos (1627575) | more than 2 years ago | (#36197330)

Sounds a lot like chasing witches, communists, drugs, and terrorists. And wind. And their own tails.

Why do governments love chasing what they can't catch?

Re:"Allegiance" to an abstract idea, eh? (3, Interesting)

tftp (111690) | more than 2 years ago | (#36198824)

Why do governments love chasing what they can't catch?

Because you can do it for as long as you want, and no particular results are expected. See "war on drugs" - there is no metric that is commonly used to show that "the war" is successful or not.

For a cubicle dweller it would be equivalent to reporting to the boss every day that "I'm working on it" year after year, and still being paid in full for delivering nothing but appearance of effort.

Servers seized (2)

airfoobar (1853132) | more than 2 years ago | (#36197346)

Two days before the elections. Coincidence?

Re:Servers seized (0)

mykos (1627575) | more than 2 years ago | (#36197730)

This should be the big story. Uganda, anyone [guardian.co.uk]?

Re:Servers seized (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36198034)

It sounds like they need to take the revolutions happening elsewhere and overthrow the government... It clearly isn't working.

Re:Servers seized (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36198112)

Whoganda?

Some notes about this (5, Informative)

kju (327) | more than 2 years ago | (#36197938)

The summary is very uninformative. This needs to be mentioned:

- The reason for the seizure was topic of speculation all day long. It was very soon suspected that the reason was abuse of the "piratenpad", a publically available etherpad installation operated by the pirate party. Apparently this platform was used to coordinate a DDoS attack against the french energy and utility company (according to Wikipedia the largest of the world) EDF. Pirate party later stated that a SSH key for there webserver was posted on the piratenpad. See http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Polizei-kapert-Server-der-Piratenpartei-1246963.html [heise.de] (german).

- This service was only running on one of the servers but the police took all servers nethertheless which includes their mail and other important infrastructure.

- The seizure was not the result of some german investigation but rather a reaction to a judicial assistance request by the french police.

- As well-known german lawyer Udo Vetter points out (http://www.lawblog.de/index.php/archives/2011/05/20/ein-akt-der-deutschen-behrden/ - german) the german police was not required by law to react in this way. Furthermore political parties are somewhat protected by law and it is very arguable that the measures taken were adequate as required by law.

- There is a state election in the German state of Bremen on Sunday. The pirate party is running there. This seizure is of course very unfortunate in light of this. This has promptly caused conspiracy theories that the reason for the seizure might be political.

Re:Some notes about this (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36201494)

As well-known german lawyer Udo Vetter points out (http://www.lawblog.de/index.php/archives/2011/05/20/ein-akt-der-deutschen-behrden/ - german) the german police was not required by law to react in this way

Above, you essentially state that they did not have to take the servers. Then you go on to say that it "is very arguable that the measures taken were adequate as required by law[,]" which is to say that it was required to take the servers? Which is it?

In completely unrelated news.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36198020)

Germans Love David Hasselhoff.

And The Beat Goes On (1)

b4upoo (166390) | more than 2 years ago | (#36198212)

There's a concept! Search people just because they just might be guilty of something. No concept of probable cause need exist these days.

woow (0)

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Newsies (1)

drb226 (1938360) | more than 2 years ago | (#36199020)

I read "The German police have seized today" and immediately started heard newsies singing in my head. I guess confiscating other people's servers is their way to carpe diem.

EDF ... Not Surprised (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36200826)

So after installing tracking devices on a french Green party personality going after the presidential election, hacking the desktop of a Greenpeace activist and spying the "Sortir du nucléaire" (stop using nuclear power) association, it just play as "victim" to get some server down ?

Why ain't i surprised ?

So the present political party in power... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36201702)

... is using its power to attack another political party - using the police to carry out their goal to destroy its opposition... Sounds like the present US administration to a T. Maybe they have been taking lessons.

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