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Civil Society Statement To the E-G8 and G8

Roblimo posted more than 3 years ago | from the with-liberty-and-internet-for-all dept.

The Internet 44

jrepin writes "The signatories of this statement are representatives of civil society from around the world working towards the promotion of Internet freedom, digital rights, and open communication. The French Presidency of the G8 is holding a G8 internet meeting -- the eG8 Forum -- immediately before the G8 Summit in Deauville, with a view to shaping the agenda of the G8 Summit regarding key global internet policy. This meeting is significant because this is the first year that the internet's role in society and the economy is explicitly on the G8 agenda. We believe that G8 Member States should use the e-G8 meeting as an opportunity to publicly commit to expanding internet access for all, combating digital censorship and surveillance, limiting online intermediary liability, and upholding principles of net neutrality."

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IRONY: combating digital censorship (2)

commodore6502 (1981532) | more than 3 years ago | (#36229824)

>>>"combating digital censorship and surveillance"

It was the French president who was the leading proponent for censorship/surveillance of citizens (second only to Australian Minister Conroy). How ironic that he would step forward with this proposal. Must be doublespeak.

Re:IRONY: combating digital censorship (1)

countertrolling (1585477) | more than 3 years ago | (#36229850)

espoir et de changement...

Re:IRONY: combating digital censorship (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36229852)

civil society means free speech (not "speach" you fucks)

free speech means NIGGER JOKES are funny.

Re:IRONY: combating digital censorship (1)

sorak (246725) | more than 3 years ago | (#36231310)

civil society means free speech (not "speach" you fucks)

free speech means NIGGER JOKES are funny.

No. It means you can't get arrested for them. Free speech does not require others to laugh at your jokes, seriously consider your propositions, or respect your opinions.

Re:IRONY: combating digital censorship (1)

ElectricTurtle (1171201) | more than 3 years ago | (#36229968)

That quote was from the Civil Society statement, not from the French president.

you gave him far too much credit. (1)

Lead Butthead (321013) | more than 3 years ago | (#36230856)

Must be doublespeak.

The man doublethinks, and is thus sincere each time he speaks in favor of the opposing positions of the same issue.

Agenda (1)

symes (835608) | more than 3 years ago | (#36229948)

Call me a cynic but I'm sure they'll come out with a statement something along the lines of internet freedom, digital rights, and open communication is a great idea so long as it is our sort of internet freedom, digital rights, and open communication and those of our sponsors.

Re:Agenda (1)

Xest (935314) | more than 3 years ago | (#36230178)

They will, because Sarkozy is heading it all.

Re:Agenda (1)

hitmark (640295) | more than 3 years ago | (#36231010)

Oh how France have fallen...

Re:Agenda (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36231952)

This.

Also, the "expanding" word worries me greatly, considering how "democracy" is being "expanded".

Cory Doctorow doesn't think much of it. (2)

cybergrue (696844) | more than 3 years ago | (#36230052)

Re:Cory Doctorow doesn't think much of it. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36230266)

I was going to comment to say that even if we all hope the same schedule than the one they "should" follow, the "real" schedule is probably MAFIAA - based, as the french presidency is pushing for this for the last few years ( hadopi law and a few others, cancelation of an open forum about Intenet freedom to be held in november, ... ).
BoingBoing is already saying this.

nothing more to add here...

Re:Cory Doctorow doesn't think much of it. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36230460)

I really like what Zimmermann said in the quote on the linked article:

The Internet allows us to express our opinions universally. The Internet unites us and makes us strong. It is a space in which the common civilisation of our diverse planet meets. Our imaginations, through all kinds of media we create and publish, help us protect our rights and a free Internet.

Re:Cory Doctorow doesn't think much of it. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36230520)

More whiny self-righteousness from Cory Doctorow - I used to like BoingBoing bitd - why does he always go on like a shouty teenager?

Re:Cory Doctorow doesn't think much of it. (1)

hitmark (640295) | more than 3 years ago | (#36230968)

Hmm, nearly a week ago. No wonder then that i could not find any reactions related to it right now.

Still, interesting that he writes that he was invited but declined as he suspect a whitewash. I wonder if the same is the case for various orgs like EFF.

Re:Cory Doctorow doesn't think much of it. (1)

Curunir_wolf (588405) | more than 3 years ago | (#36232120)

Leo Laporte was invited, too, but his flight was cancelled.

Damn, Not a CivE Group (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36230068)

And here I was all excited that some CivE professional society was going to point out the dramatic need for first world economies to maintain their physical infrastructure.

A little confused... (2)

Kamiza Ikioi (893310) | more than 3 years ago | (#36230180)

What does the first sentence have to do with the story about eG8? Is there a direct cause/effect, is the G8 recognizing it in some sort of way, or is this story exploiting the eG8 story for self-promotion?

The eG8 story is significant, but let's not all sing Kumbaya just yet. The context is "freedom", but the content is money. The Internet is the new economic revolution. While the context of the industrial revolution may have been unions and labor law, the content for them would be how to cash in.

What is even more significant is the idea of moving the entire G8 to an Internet meeting through an undisclosed service. And before you cheer that Anonymous would take the place of the physical protesters, it would more than likely be hosted through a private VPN service to locations around the world.

What I would like to see, though, is a good portion of the meeting transmitted online. If they truly believe in access and against censorship, then they can at least post portions online and allow for responses.

Re:A little confused... (2)

AmElder (1385909) | more than 3 years ago | (#36230468)

Not cause and effect, contrast. The G8 will be discussing the internet and society, but the G8 organisers haven't invited the experts. People like the EFF, the Center for Internet and Society, the OSI, and the like are the folks who think the hardest and longest about how government should and shouldn't interact with the web so that it's good and not crappy. Mark Zuckerberg's there and presumably Larry Lessig isn't.

Re:A little confused... (1)

Kamiza Ikioi (893310) | more than 3 years ago | (#36230678)

That makes sense. Of course, those groups don't make piles of cash. So that makes sense, too. I think it is at their loss. Of course, they aren't going to allow the RMS types in. But EFF lawyers, OSI, and the like seem like good speakers, even if they do have a natural bias... it is a bias that needs to be heard. The insulated elite draw the ire of the populous, which is something you would think centuries of experience would teach these supposedly smart people. Money no more buys success than tanks win wars.

Internet Interpol (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36230188)

What will come out of this is simple.

There will be an international organization created specifically for regulating and policing the internet comprised of leadership from other countries. They will dictate Intellectual Property rules, bandwidth rules, free speech rules, criminal penalties for disruptions and attacks, as well as lead to "sanctions" of countries unwilling or unable to abide by the new international organization's rules.

It will be completely worthless.

they want a seat at the table (3, Interesting)

AmElder (1385909) | more than 3 years ago | (#36230270)

From TFA (the statement):

>>>Contrary to current best practices in policymaking, the invite list has been limited primarily to representatives of government and corporate leaders, who already enjoy disproportionately large influence over Internet regulation.

The signatories of this statement represent most of the groups that wade waist-deep into politics to promote the free and open web. They keep banging on the door, but they don't get a seat at the table. Many of these are the same groups that tried to change the ACTA treaty. As civil society members, they will always be pushing for greater transparency, better access, a more ethical approach. That's their role.

They're right of course that if business leaders (Around 1,500 guests in all says the Guardian article) get access, the third leg of society, civic leaders, should also have a place. However, no one will just open the door and let them in. They need clout to earn a seat, and they're having trouble building it up. They need charismatic leaders, or need to be able to influence blocks of voters. Right now, they have no standing on any political stage, let alone in a summit meeting like this.

Re:they want a seat at the table (1)

hitmark (640295) | more than 3 years ago | (#36231124)

And once a forum of any kind lets them in, the incumbents take their ball and move to a different venue (observer the near shutdown of WIPO once they let in groups to argue on behalf of the third world and the disabled).

Re:they want a seat at the table (1)

slashqwerty (1099091) | more than 3 years ago | (#36234178)

Of course if they do let civilian groups in, every special interest in the world is going to be banging on the door pushing their own agenda. There will be groups pushing agendas on abortion, gay marriage, religion, gun sales, child support, and so on...

Re:they want a seat at the table (1)

AmElder (1385909) | more than 3 years ago | (#36234792)

Yes, that's exactly what's happening, though it's not quite a free-for-all of cries for inclusion. Those invited to this "E-G8" include 'civilian groups' such as representatives of the press and business leaders. For example Cory Doctorow was invited and Larry Page apparently attended. Now the civil society groups are saying: we know all about the internet and society, you should listen to what we have to say.

These groups (including Privacy International and La Quadrature du Net) aren't entirely naive. They were left off the guest list because Sarkozy didn't want to hear what they have to say. They recognise this and their press release is really just a way of pointing out that the meeting has left out some of the most important voices on net freedom and digital rights.

clarity needed (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36230384)

Better define exactly what they mean by "net neutrality".

And as long as criminals and cyber-warfare are around, some degree of surveillance will be needed. Safeguards and limitations need to be discussed, but a no-surveillance position will never make it, and you'll be dismissed as non-serious idiots.

What's this wool doing in my eye?! (1)

VortexCortex (1117377) | more than 3 years ago | (#36230408)

Ooh, it's a meaningful acronym -- a cleverly deceptive bit of wool -- A secret even when beneath nostrils!

Here, let me translate:

"The signatories of this statement are representatives of civil society from around the world working towards the promotion of Internet freedom, digital rights, and open communication. The French Presidency of the Gate is holding a Gate [Internet] meeting -- the e-Gate Forum -- immediately before the Gate Summit in Deauville, with a view to shaping the agenda of the Gate Summit regarding key global [Internet] policy. This meeting is significant because this is the first year that the [Internet's] role in society and the economy is explicitly on the Gate agenda. We believe that Gate Member States should use the e-Gate meeting as an opportunity to publicly commit to expanding [Internet] access for all, combating digital censorship and surveillance, limiting online intermediary liability, and upholding principles of net neutrality."

Yeah -- clever. Combating censorship and surveillance (from governments, not for people) limiting online intermediary liability (for businesses, not people), and upholding principles of net neutrality (which we can say, because that feel-good term is not concretely defined as anything at all).

In short, show your proof of netizenship papers at the Gate, select few shall decide construction details of the e-Gate.

TL;DR: $TFS =~ s/G8/Gate/gi;

P.S. The Internet -- Capitalized because it's Serious Business.

Perl 6 is on the horizon (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36234970)

And I'm afraid pregex syntax has changed (willen haven-on changed? Damn these present-tense-hypothetical-future tenses!)

$TFS ~~ s:g:i/G8/Gate/;

the general public needs to help too (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36230414)

As long as we (the general public I mean) act in way contrary to those goals, they will never come to pass.

People still support DRM and OS-lockdown technologies that are the very same ones that can be used for control and censorship. People need to start valuing ethical considerations when purchasing, especially with mobile tech. It's too late to ever completely lock down general PCs, but with mobile becoming an ever bigger fraction of computing, we are teetering on the brink of the public losing control of its own computing devices. Locked bootloaders, removal of software and products (e.g 1984) from our devices... if we stop buying that shit, it'll be only a matter of months before things become more open again. I'm amazed at how many people did buy their own golden cages.

Technologies like PGP have been around for 20 years, and are built into almost every mail client, yet people still send clear text emails. People need to start using the available and widely deployed technology to limit the ability to snoop and inspect.

Insert five hundred more examples here.

Sadly, you can't force people to care about their own freedom, and if they don't, a small number of people making noise doesn't accomplish much. People have to start caring. If they don't, then governmental and corporate control will ONLY increase from here on out.

Am I the only one tired of this Sarkozy dude? (2)

alexmin (938677) | more than 3 years ago | (#36230564)

He's constantly poking his nose into different things which are none of his business. With abysmal results as well.
Just couple months ago he dragged us into this Libya thing. Before that was global banking regs (did not go well either.) Even before that he "negotiated" with Russia during Georgian war - and Putin basically had him to fuck off.

Could French finally have this clown stop?

Re:Am I the only one tired of this Sarkozy dude? (1)

Issarlk (1429361) | more than 3 years ago | (#36231126)

Not before 2012, sadly. It will be the best year ever just for the pleasure of seeing him go!

Re:Am I the only one tired of this Sarkozy dude? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36231738)

Yeah that was the plan a few weeks ago, with a certain DSK as a favourite candidate...

Re:Am I the only one tired of this Sarkozy dude? (1)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 3 years ago | (#36232036)

Ya know, monkey boy was reelected as well, it's not a given yet that he's a goner.

Remember that the amount of people who care about freedom are a minority today. I'm pretty sure he did some "good" things too (for different definitions of "good") that some people will like him for. Couldn't think of any right now, but then, I don't pay too much attention to the garden gnome.

Re:Am I the only one tired of this Sarkozy dude? (1)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 3 years ago | (#36231688)

Good luck stopping him. And if you try, good luck when the CIA sets you up on a rape charge.

Re:Am I the only one tired of this Sarkozy dude? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36232364)

Oh dear jebus. *facepalm*

Re:Am I the only one tired of this Sarkozy dude? (1)

sourcerror (1718066) | more than 3 years ago | (#36231722)

He's still 10 times less annoying than GWB, so cut him some slack.

So Hunger, Housing and Illteracy have been solved? (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36230662)

The bankers have all been rounded up and put in jail? The 2.5 wars are over? The Japanese nuclear genie is back in the bottle? Bankruptcy has been averted in the EU? The Global Elite have stopped raping women?

No. But my ability to point this out is going to be taken away.

Must be written by the Kool Aid man (1)

whargoul (932206) | more than 3 years ago | (#36230858)

We believe that G8 Member States should use the e-G8 meeting as an opportunity to publicly commit to expanding internet access for all, combating digital censorship and surveillance, limiting online intermediary liability, and upholding principles of net neutrality.

That there is a whole lot of Kool Aid.

Re:Must be written by the Kool Aid man (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36235412)

Oh yeaaaaaaaaaah!

Authoritarian (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36230876)

From the article:

In this way we can know what you are doing and you can know what we think," Sarkozy told the eG8 forum.
"We need to talk to you. We need to understand your expertise, your hopes and you have to know our limits and our red lines."

Sarkozy can only think about talking to the industry, not listening to it. Sarkozy can only think about expressing limits and red lines and to use the industry expertise to enhance the surveillance of the population instead of developing the markets. Obviously the common market does not weight much in the mind and heart of Sarkozy like the Americans like to say, but then again, for G8 that consideration is irrelevant, right?

Internet on the G8 agenda? Beware (2)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 3 years ago | (#36231994)

Nothing good will come out of this. G8 meetings aren't about consumer rights. Or if they are ... enjoy them while you still have them.

It's called what? (1)

Curunir_wolf (588405) | more than 3 years ago | (#36232096)

Shouldn't they have called it the iG8? Or did they opt for e-G8 because are they afraid of Apple's IP lawyers?

reality check (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36232432)

We are particularly concerned about the increasing trend of nations cutting off citizens’ access to the Internet and mobile networks in times of crisis, as Egypt, Libya, Iran, China, Nepal, and Burma have all done.

You have a "CRISIS". You think the White House would be interested in facilitating your access to gay porn when there is a "crisis" on its hands?

G8 (2)

hackus (159037) | more than 3 years ago | (#36233730)

You don't get it.

The G8 are not there to accept your discussion about internet freedom, they are there specifically to destroy it.

They are extremely freaked out about what happened when a single man lit himself on fire and the social networks ended up focusing an entire regional uprising, that continues till this day in Libya, Egypt..etc.

They want the internet stopped, they want it destroyed, they want it controlled.

If your document has any suggestions on how to do this, they will listen.

If not, you are a terrorist.

-Hack

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