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Major Release of Miro Aims to Compete With iTunes

Unknown Lamer posted more than 3 years ago | from the the-enemy-of-drm-is-my-friend dept.

Music 201

ravrore writes "Miro 4 was released today, a major update to the popular multi-platform FOSS video player. The new version adds music support, local network stream and transfer, music purchasing, and Android syncing. Miro is positioning itself as the open iTunes for Android users. 'We believe the open media world can be just as integrated and usable as the closed, top-down, DRM'ed systems of companies like Apple. And we want to prove it,' says Nicholas Reville, Executive Director of Participatory Culture Foundation, which creates Miro." It looks like the project still has a few rough edges, but is definitely getting there.

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"Open Media" (5, Insightful)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 3 years ago | (#36231232)

FOSS-speak: "Open media"

Translation: We've got public domain crap, idiots talking to their webcams, sucky indie bands who need to practice more and promote less, and that's about it--unless you want to pirate.

Seriously, the summary is trying to promote this as an iTunes competitor? Really? I hate Apple crap, and even *I* know that iTunes is way better than this.

Okay, you can all mod me down now for daring to criticize an open-source project. You know you want to.

music on Amazon and Itunes has no DRM (2)

acomj (20611) | more than 3 years ago | (#36231370)

As of now, music on amazon and itunes is DRM free.

It won't be too hard to top the itunes interface for syncing though..

Re:music on Amazon and Itunes has no DRM (1)

Dan667 (564390) | more than 3 years ago | (#36231570)

I just started using Miro and love it. Am stuck with a ipod though so I have been saving the files to a folder, deleting my library from itunes, and letting it resync with the files so I can sync the ipod. If Miro starts syncing to the ipod I will drop itunes all together. Also a real bulk export feature that does not require files to be converted is needed for Miro.

Re:music on Amazon and Itunes has no DRM (1)

tripleevenfall (1990004) | more than 3 years ago | (#36231788)

What about all the music purchased from iTunes in the years and years prior, when it wasn't DRM free? Will Miro play that?

If people have to leave behind all their m4p and other protected format music (a substantial amount of their collection, for many), they won't switch over.

Re:music on Amazon and Itunes has no DRM (2)

jo_ham (604554) | more than 3 years ago | (#36231872)

Use iTunes itself to break that DRM, as Apple have encouraged strongly all along: burn it to audio CD. This has always been possible, ever since DRMed music was available in iTunes. You sacrifice a little if you then re-rip into a lossy format, but it is free. Alternatively you can upgrade your old purchased tracks for 20 cents (or local currency equivalent) to the higher-bitrate, non-DRM versions that are now available in the store.

Re:music on Amazon and Itunes has no DRM (1)

tripleevenfall (1990004) | more than 3 years ago | (#36232142)

So the proposal is that all these people should spend hours (days? weeks? months?) meticulously burning their purchased music to audio CD, 10-12 at a time, then reimporting them and renaming all the tracks and such?

The general public's reaction : "F*ck that"

Re:music on Amazon and Itunes has no DRM (1)

dch24 (904899) | more than 3 years ago | (#36232212)

I'm sure somebody will eventually write a de-DRM tool... someday... [wikipedia.org]

Re:music on Amazon and Itunes has no DRM (1)

jo_ham (604554) | more than 3 years ago | (#36232416)

Why rename them? iTunes supports CD-text, it's right there in the options. This option was suggested by Apple at the time you bought the music (very strongly suggested on each purchase), and is a free way to do it, if a little time consuming if you have tons of stuff - it is, however, a free and fully supported way to remove DRM from old iTunes tracks. The assertion was that "if there was no way to get out of the DRM trap with old tracks" then "people won't switch". I am simply stating that not only can you "get out", but that the ability to do so was built in from day one.

Re:music on Amazon and Itunes has no DRM (1)

Risen888 (306092) | more than 3 years ago | (#36232458)

What about all the music purchased from iTunes in the years and years prior, when it wasn't DRM free? Will Miro play that?

If people have to leave behind all their m4p and other protected format music (a substantial amount of their collection, for many), they won't switch over.

Why should we care about that?

Re:music on Amazon and Itunes has no DRM (1)

jfengel (409917) | more than 3 years ago | (#36232434)

I'm lukewarm on iTunes for syncing, and it's music store interface is simply abysmal: weirdly modal, brutally slow and unresponsive, seemingly obvious features unimplemented or half-assed. Not at all what I've come to expect from Apple.

iTunes started somewhere else, but Apple's had a long time to make it less-bad. They've fixed a few really aggravating bugs, but it's still only meh.

Still... the fact that it download my podcasts on its own time and syncs the iPod just by plugging it in (deleting old ones, more or less, and uploading new ones) is really, really convenient, and keeps me using it.

"You know you want to." YES....I do: (1)

Smidge207 (1278042) | more than 3 years ago | (#36231390)

Rob Malda is a 26-year old white male with a stocky build and a beard. His head is shaved. He responded to my ad to be interviewed for this article wearing only leather pants, leather boots and a leather vest. I could see that both of his nipples were pierced with large-gauge silver rings.

Questioner: I hope you won't be offended if I ask you to prove to me that you're a nullo. Just so that our readers will know that this isn't a fake.

Rob: Sure, no problem. (stands and unbuckles pants and drops them to his ankles, revealing a smooth, shaven crotch with only a thin scar to show where his genitals once were).

Q: Thank you. That's a remarkable sight.

(laughs and pulls pants back up). Most people think so.

Q: What made you decide to become a nullo?

(pauses). Well, it really wasn't entirely my decision.

Q: Excuse me?

The idea wasn't mine. It was my lover's idea.

Q: Please explain what you mean.

Okay, it's a long story. You have to understand my relationship with Michael before you'll know what happened.

Q: We have plenty of time. Please go on.

Both of us were into the leather lifestyle when we met through a personal ad. Michael's ad was very specific: he was looking for someone to completely dominate and modify to his pleasure. In other word, a slave.

The ad intrigued me. I had been in a number of B&D scenes and also some S&M, but I found them unsatisfying because they were all temporary. After the fun was over, everybody went on with life as usual.

I was looking for a complete life change. I wanted to meet someone who would be part of my life forever. Someone who would control me and change me at his whim.

Q: In other words, you're a true masochist.

Oh yes, no doubt about that. I've always been totally passive in my sexual relationships.

Anyway, we met and there was instant chemistry. Michael is a few years older than me and very good looking. Our personalities meshed totally. He's very dominant.

I went back to his place after drinks and had the best sex of my life. That's when I knew I was going to be with Michael for a long, long time.

Q: What sort of things did you two do?

It was very heavy right away. He restrained me and whipped me for quite awhile. He put clamps on my nipples and a ball gag in my mouth. And he hung a ball bag on my sack with some very heavy weights. That bag really bounced around when Michael fucked me from behind.

Q: Ouch.

(laughs) Yeah, no kidding. At first I didn't think I could take the pain, but Michael worked me through it and after awhile I was flying. I was sorry when it was over.

Michael enjoyed it as much as I did. Afterwards he talked about what kind of a commitment I'd have to make if I wanted to stay with him.

Q: What did he say exactly?

Well, besides agreeing to be his slave in every way, I'd have to be ready to be modified. To have my body modified.

Q: Did he explain what he meant by that?

Not specifically, but I got the general idea. I guessed that something like castration might be part of it.

Q: How did that make you feel?

(laughs) I think it would make any guy a little hesitant.

Q: But it didn't stop you from agreeing to Michael's terms?

No it didn't. I was totally hooked on this man. I knew that I was willing to pay any price to be with him.

Anyway, a few days later I moved in with Michael. He gave me the rules right away: I'd have to be naked at all times while we were indoors, except for a leather dog collar that I could never take off. I had to keep my head shaved. And I had to wear a butt plug except when I needed to take a shit or when we were having sex.

I had to sleep on the floor next to his bed. I ate all my food on the floor, too.

The next day he took me to a piercing parlor where he had my nipples done, and a Prince Albert put into the head of my cock.

Q: Heavy stuff.

Yeah, and it got heavier. He used me as a toilet, pissing in my mouth. I had to lick his asshole clean after he took a shit, too. It was all part of a process to break down any sense of individuality I had. After awhile, I wouldn't hesitate to do anything he asked.

Q: Did the sex get rougher?

Oh God, yeah. He started fisting me every time we had sex. But he really started concentrating on my cock and balls, working them over for hours at a time.

He put pins into the head of my cock and into my sack. He attached clothespins up and down my cock and around my sack. The pain was pretty bad. He had to gag me to keep me from screaming.

Q: When did the idea of nullification come up?

Well, it wasn't nullification at first. He started talking about how I needed to make a greater commitment to him, to do something to show that I was dedicated to him for life.

When I asked him what he meant, he said that he wanted to take my balls.

Q: How did you respond?

Not very well at first. I told him that I liked being a man and didn't want to become a eunuch. But he kept at me, and wore me down. He reminded me that I agreed to be modified according to his wishes, and this is what he wanted for me. Anything less would show that I wasn't really committed to the relationship. And besides, I was a total bottom and didn't really need my balls.

It took about a week before I agreed to be castrated. But I wasn't happy about it, believe me.

Q: How did he castrate you?

Michael had a friend who was into the eunuch scene. One night he came over with his bag of toys, and Michael told me that this was it. I was gonna lose my nuts then and there.

Q: Did you think of resisting?

I did for a minute, but deep down I knew there was no way. I just didn't want to lose Michael. I'd rather lose my balls.

Michael's friend restrained me on the living room floor while Michael videotaped us. He used an elastrator to put a band around my sack.

Q: That must have really hurt.

Hell yeah. It's liked getting kicked in the balls over and over again. I screamed for him to cut the band off, but he just kept on going, putting more bands on me. I had four bands around my sack when he finished.

I was rolling around on the floor screaming, while Michael just videotaped me. Eventually, my sack got numb and the pain subsided. I looked between my legs and could see my sack was a dark purple. I knew my balls were dying inside.

Michael and his friend left the room and turned out the light. I lay there for hours, crying because I was turning into a eunuch and there wasn't anything I could do about it.

Q: What happened then?

Eventually I fell asleep from exhaustion. Then the light switched on and I could see Michael's friend kneeling between my legs, touching my sack. I heard him tell Michael that my balls were dead.

Q: How did Michael react?

Very pleased. He bent down and felt around my sack. He said that it felt cold.

Michael's friend told me that I needed to keep the bands on. He said that eventually my balls and sack would dry up and fall off. I just nodded. What else could I do at that point?

Q: Did it happen just like Michael's friend said?

Yeah, a week or so later my package just fell off. Michael put it in a jar of alcohol to preserve it. It's on the table next to his bed.

Q: How did things go after that?

Michael was really loving to me. He kept saying how proud he was of me, how grateful that I had made the commitment to him. He even let me sleep in his bed.

Q: What about the sex?

We waited awhile after my castration, and then took it easy until I was completely healed. At first I was able to get hard, but as the weeks went by my erections began to disappear.

That pleased Michael. He liked fucking me and feeling my limp cock. It made his dominance over me even greater.

Q: When did he start talking about making you a nullo?

A couple of months after he took my nuts. Our sex had gotten to be just as rough as before the castration. He really got off on torturing my cock. Then he started saying stuff like, "Why do you even need this anymore?"

That freaked me out. I always thought that he might someday take my balls, but I never imagined that he'd go all the way. I told him that I wanted to keep my dick.

Q: How did he react to that?

At first he didn't say much. But he kept pushing. Michael said I would look so nice being smooth between my legs. He said my dick was small and never got hard anymore, so what was the point of having it.

But I still resisted. I wanted to keep my cock. I felt like I wouldn't be a man anymore without it.

Q: So how did he get you to agree?

He didn't. He took it against my will.

Q: How did that happen?

We were having sex in the basement, and I was tied up and bent over this wooden bench as he fucked me. Then I heard the doorbell ring. Michael answered it, and he brought this guy into the room.

At first I couldn't see anything because of the way I was tied. But then I felt these hands lift me up and put me on my back. And I could see it was Michael's friend, the guy who took my nuts.

Q: How did you react?

I started screaming and crying, but the guy just gagged me. The two of them dragged me to the other side of the room where they tied me spread eagled on the floor.

Michael's friend snaked a catheter up my dick, and gave me a shot to numb my crotch. I was grateful for that, at least. I remember how bad it hurt to lose my balls.

Q: What was Michael doing at this time?

He was kneeling next to me talking quietly. He said I'd be happy that they were doing this. That it would make our relationship better. That kind of calmed me down. I thought, "Well, maybe it won't be so bad."

Q: How long did the penectomy take?

It took awhile. Some of the penis is inside the body, so he had to dig inside to get all of it. There was a lot of stitching up and stuff. He put my cock in the same jar with my balls. You can even see the Prince Albert sticking out of the head.

Then they made me a new pisshole. It's between my asshole and where my sack used to be. So now I have to squat to piss.

Q: What has life been like since you were nullified?

After I got over the surgery and my anger, things got better. When I healed up, I began to like my smooth look. Michael brought friends over and they all admired it, saying how pretty I looked. It made me feel good that Michael was proud of me.

Q: Do you have any sexual feeling anymore?

Yes, my prostate still responds when Michael fucks me or uses the buttplug. And my nipples are quite sensitive. If Michael plays with them while fucking me, I have a kind of orgasm. It's hard to describe, but it's definitely an orgasm.

Sometimes Michael says he's gonna have my prostate and nipples removed, but he's just kidding around. He's happy with what he's done to me.

Q: So are you glad Michael had you nullified?

Well, I wouldn't say I'm glad. If I could, I'd like to have my cock and balls back. But I know that I'm a nullo forever. So I'm making the best of it.

Michael and I are very happy. I know that he'll take care of me and we'll be together always. I guess losing my manhood was worth it to make that happen for us.

Re:"You know you want to." YES....I do: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36232042)

Wow. I had no idea that CmdrTaco has a beard.

Re:"Open Media" (4, Informative)

iluvcapra (782887) | more than 3 years ago | (#36231416)

No you're fine. Everybody basically acknowledges this, but you're skipping all the good closed media Miro will be selling too: the Miro will let you buy from the Amazon MP3 store, so there will be a good selection of DRM-free music available on the platform, too.

Re:"Open Media" (0)

Duradin (1261418) | more than 3 years ago | (#36231498)

Apple will let you buy from Amazon as well.

Re:"Open Media" (1)

Bryan3000000 (1356999) | more than 3 years ago | (#36231560)

Apple will let you buy from Amazon as well.

But iTunes will not let you sync to Android. Hence the summary.

Re:"Open Media" (3, Informative)

jo_ham (604554) | more than 3 years ago | (#36231912)

Sure it will, if you use something like MarkSpace's Missing Sync:

http://www.markspace.com/products/android/missing-sync-android.html [markspace.com]

The sync API for iTunes is documented and available to anyone who wants to write something that works with it. What you can't do (and what Apple somehow turned into the bad guy for stamping on) is pretend to be an iPod by spoofing Apple's USB vendor ID so you can be super lazy and not write an interface to iTunes' own sync system.

Missing Sync isn't free, but the sync API (certainly in OS X) is open and documented so you can write your own if you want to.

Re:"Open Media" (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36231430)

For those of us who use iTunes (or similar) to manage and synchronize our music library but seldom or never to purchase music... who cares what they have available for sale or streaming?

Re:"Open Media" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36231494)

and amazon music store.....

Re:"Open Media" (1)

kellyb9 (954229) | more than 3 years ago | (#36231536)

I think you're missing the point here. I don't think the point is really about DRM or openness. I think the major point is Android. I buy my music off of Amazon, but it would be nice to have a way of syncing my device the same way iPhone users do. I know there are a few applications out there to do it, but like you already pointed out, none of them are nearly as polished as iTunes. Anything close and I'll probably give their tool a shot.

Re:"Open Media" (1)

ravrore (1769516) | more than 3 years ago | (#36231652)

Exactly. Android is going to be 50% of smartphones soon and there's no iTunes equivalent for it, until Miro. Plus Miro works on Windows, Mac, and Linux.

Re:"Open Media" (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 3 years ago | (#36232104)

Mount as USB mass storage device and drag and drop. Much easier than iTunes.

Re:"Open Media" (1)

LoganDzwon (1170459) | more than 3 years ago | (#36232334)

I don't think you have a misunderstanding of the meaning of the world "easier."

Re:"Open Media" (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 3 years ago | (#36232470)

I don't think I do either. Thanks for agreeing with me.

Re:"Open Media" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36231612)

How comes everytime some idiot comes, talks a lot of crap and ends with something like "but hey, that's just my opinion mod me down if you want to!" it gets actually moded up?

The thing uses Amazon as app and music store, so you can buy any popular-comercial shit you want, not just indie bands or crappy apps.

Re:"Open Media" (2)

ravrore (1769516) | more than 3 years ago | (#36231640)

Miro has Amazon MP3 store built in, so it has the same content access as iTunes and is has things like Android syncing, video conversion, and local network file transferring that iTunes doesn't do.

Re:"Open Media" (2)

605dave (722736) | more than 3 years ago | (#36231754)

How do you know within an day of release that iTunes is way better? Have you tried Miro? Have you been trying the betas? Just curious where your strong opinion comes from.

Re:"Open Media" (1)

An Onerous Coward (222037) | more than 3 years ago | (#36232408)

This is Slashdot. Strong opinions are their own justification.

Re:"Open Media" (1)

cyberfin (1454265) | more than 3 years ago | (#36231766)

When the article mentions open media, it refers to it regarding integration and usability, not the quality of U2 vs. an indie band. And as some have mentioned, as long as your media is DRM free, you can use it to sync your libraries (even, sigh, Lady Gaga).

Re:"Open Media" (2)

drb226 (1938360) | more than 3 years ago | (#36231938)

unless you want to pirate

Miro makes it quite easy to torrent music/vids right into your library...don't underestimate this angle, although it's not exactly the kind of thing Miro is going to go around announcing publicly, for obvious reasons.

Re:"Open Media" (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 3 years ago | (#36232188)

Even better is that it will accept rss feeds that contain said torrents. At least it did years ago when I used it.

Software, not store (1)

Kamiza Ikioi (893310) | more than 3 years ago | (#36232068)

They are talking about the software versus iTunes software. Not the store versus the iTunes store. This was an update to the player. The biggest point is synchronizing. They are saying, listen, we can sync very well without creating an artificial walled garden in the software. AKA - iTunes hates other music players, and is designed to only work with iP(od/hone/ad).

Of course the store sucks at this point. Google and Amazon, which have the real shots at popular stores, are working from a cloud perspective with cloud players. Miro is working from a local cache standpoint. Syncing to a computer and creating a local network cloud streamer.

If Google and Amazon are the big repositories, Miro is working on building the "last mile". Being that Miro is open source, they are really saying to Google and Amazon, if you like open source for Android, why not look at us as your open source music/video player for windows/linux/android. They are saying it to everyone, but I can bet they are hoping for a big check from the Googlzon [robinsloan.com] to select them as the last mile solution to their crappy 1-off players.

Re:"Open Media" (1, Insightful)

E IS mC(Square) (721736) | more than 3 years ago | (#36232114)

You may very well criticize any open source project, but you lose all the credibility by saying itune is any good.

The worst piece of crap since real media player.

Re:"Open Media" (1)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 3 years ago | (#36232298)

There's also another name for this sort of thing: Podcast.

Isn't "podcast management" supposed to be one of those things that Apple products are hyped for?

Re:"Open Media" (1)

perryizgr8 (1370173) | more than 3 years ago | (#36232422)

and why the fuck is miro trying to look exactly like itunes?? they won't bring anything new to the table, just try to clone the best thing available right now. imo, vlc has got it right. i don't need all the sucky media library crap, my file manager handles searches very well and vlc supports playlists.

Re:"Open Media" (2)

Risen888 (306092) | more than 3 years ago | (#36232442)

FOSS-speak: "Open media"

Translation: We've got public domain crap, idiots talking to their webcams, sucky indie bands who need to practice more and promote less, and that's about it--unless you want to pirate.

Shows what you know. Almost without exception, all of the new music that I've really gotten into in the last couple of years has been CC licensed. Hell, Chuck D is putting stuff out under CC these days. I listen to podcasts twenty times more than I listen to the radio. They hooked me with free, they kept me because it's generally better than the commercial alternatives.

Is that going to convince someone's kid sister who only listens to the pop station and doesn't have the attention span to listen to any spoken word longer than a 30 second commercial? No. Do I give a shit? No. I will continue to get more out of my entertainment budget (in terms of both money and time) than they do and be perfectly happy with that.

So for all that, would I call Miro an "iTunes competitor?" Nah. iTunes never had a chance with me in the first place. Get with the times.

Re:"Open Media" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36232494)

FOSS-speak: "Open media"

Translation: We've got public domain crap, idiots talking to their webcams, sucky indie bands who need to practice more and promote less, and that's about it--unless you want to pirate.

I have found a large number of great (electronic) albums on www.Jamendo.com - these are not Public Domain but are released under a Creative Commons license.

Pirating seems to be the only other option, given that even something like this 1902 (!) recording [loc.gov] , recorded almost 110 years ago, on the National Jukebox is somehow still under copyright in the United States:

Rights & Access

This recording is protected by state copyright laws in the United States. The Library of Congress has obtained a license from rights holders to offer it as streamed audio only. Downloading is not permitted. The authorization of rights holders of the recording is required in order to obtain a copy of the recording. Contact jukebox@loc.gov for more information.

Why have I never heard of Versions 1-3? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36231244)

Did they skip straight to 4 to try to gain some cred with the "I don't use versions 1 and 2" crowd?

Re:Why have I never heard of Versions 1-3? (1)

605dave (722736) | more than 3 years ago | (#36231648)

No. The app was originally called Democracy Player, the name later changed to Miro.

Re:Why have I never heard of Versions 1-3? (1)

tripleevenfall (1990004) | more than 3 years ago | (#36231810)

I see even they are on the "Democracy is over" bandwagon...

40 MB installer? no thx (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36231290)

Bloat is the reason I dropped iTunes. I will stick to Vox and mplayer.

Linux version still at 3.5 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36231320)

I was disappointed to see that the Linux version isn't yet at 4.0, and that the link to the 4.0 RC2 version for Linux mentioned at http://blog.getmiro.com/2011/05/miro-4-release-candidate-2/ is broken.

Another Open Sores FAIL (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36231328)

Open sores *SUCKS*. There does not exist a single open sores program that is in ANY WAY better than its closed source counterpart. Linux? SUCKS compared to OS X and Windows 7. Firefox? CRAP compared to Chrome and IE 9. This "Miro" app? GARBAGE compared to iTunes and even Winamp. I dont understand why the idea of open sores is even relevant any more. Not a single person I know in high tech uses anything open sores any more. Without exception once you try the popular (and hugely SMUG) open sores software, you always GLADLY end up paying the asking price for properly written closed source competitor.

Re:Another Open Sores FAIL (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36231422)

I agree, open sores exists for chin beards who want to make their company web site or a 1337 4 table database.The real world is over it.

Re:Another Open Sores FAIL (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36231468)

Chrome = Chromium = Open source. Also, I haven't purchased any close source stuff for a while. You are more than welcome to your opinion. The cool thing about Open Source is that it permits people to have a choice. It really doesn't matter whether it's good or bad, what matters is that it is improving and that it permits the user to decide what they do and don't run. Competition is a very good thing.

Re:Another Open Sores FAIL (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36231830)

Fuck OS X and Windows 7, we all know they use open sores BSD shit!

A few rough edges (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36231344)

It looks like the project still has a few rough edges, but is definitely getting there.

Still trying to figure out why it is acceptable for an FOSS product that aims to compete with iTunes to have "a few rough edges". We expect shit like this from commercial software makers because they are trapped in this 'launch now and patch' later mentality. But you're not the first one to market with media players, so you're not trying to get that early grab at mindshare, and obviously you're not interested in selling the software - so what's the excuse for Miro?

I would think that if you want to prove Miro can be better than iTunes, you would start by actually releasing a better product. And by that, I mean one that isn't broken and doesn't come with a promise for improvements later.

Re:A few rough edges (2)

GeorgeMonroy (784609) | more than 3 years ago | (#36231426)

I agree. I feel that just because it is open source we are expected to praise it. The truth is that open source is not the solution to everything.

Re:A few rough edges (1)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | more than 3 years ago | (#36231634)

I agree. I feel that just because it is open source we are expected to praise it.

It wasn't that long ago around here that would have been true. But the OSS zealotry seems to have died down to more practical levels these days. I don't miss the 'but does it support OGG?" +5s that flew around here.

Re:A few rough edges (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36232054)

It wasn't that long ago around here that would have been true. But the OSS zealotry seems to have died down to more practical levels these days. I don't miss the 'but does it support OGG?" +5s that flew around here.

I recently set up a new Linux computer for my brother. If Ogg support was more widespread and mainstream, I wouldn't have needed to go through the process of compiling libav (ffmpeg) from source in order to support mp3 output.

So yeah, last weekend "Does it support Ogg?" was a very practical question for me.

Re:A few rough edges (1)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | more than 3 years ago | (#36232106)

Is it common for a Linux distro to not have MP3 support by default?

Re:A few rough edges (1)

CronoCloud (590650) | more than 3 years ago | (#36232174)

Which distro? Even in the distros that insist on "free software only" like Fedora, there's usually a third party repository that lets you easily install mp3 support and whatnot.

Re:A few rough edges (2, Insightful)

Risen888 (306092) | more than 3 years ago | (#36232512)

That's probably because everything supports OGG now. Because of us zealots. We won. Again. Enjoy your practicality, but remember who paid for it.

Re:A few rough edges (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36231534)

If it syncs with my android devices, it's superior.

Re:A few rough edges (1)

Risen888 (306092) | more than 3 years ago | (#36232490)

Still trying to figure out why it is acceptable for an FOSS product that aims to compete with iTunes to have "a few rough edges".

Because iTunes is a fucking abomination. It's nothing but rough edges. If someone else's product has only "a few," it is already winning.

Content is king.. (1)

thestudio_bob (894258) | more than 3 years ago | (#36231402)

Content is king and if they ain't got the content, then they are not really going to be able to compete

I know people seem to like to bash Apple for DRM, but who do you think is pushing for DRM? (Hint: The people that control the content).

Re:Content is king.. (5, Informative)

Lunix Nutcase (1092239) | more than 3 years ago | (#36231454)

I know people seem to like to bash Apple for DRM

And wrongly so since the music bought from iTunes hasn't had DRM in for more than 2 years now.

Re:Content is king.. (1)

Kamiza Ikioi (893310) | more than 3 years ago | (#36232206)

Yet iTunes is still very monolithic in its support for i* devices. This post is not about the store, which I feel I have to keep pointing out. It's about the software. The quote in the summary is very misleading that way. The top down walled garden is the Appleverse, not mp3s. In other words, you don't have to buy into the Apple "experience" to get a good "experience". ;)

Re:Content is king.. (1)

duranaki (776224) | more than 3 years ago | (#36232234)

Yeah.. because no one owns songs they bought more than 2 years ago. They just throw them away and buy new DRM free versions, right? I'd praise Apple for dropping DRM only if they allowed you to un-DRM the old tracks for free (or the price difference). All their old customers are still locked in... even if its only $20 worth of DRM'd music they own, that's still $20 they now have to spend to access content they already paid for on another player.

Re:Content is king.. (1)

LoganDzwon (1170459) | more than 3 years ago | (#36232426)

Ya, you praise Apple! another converted... (Around the time they dropped DRM you could download stuff that deDRMed your whole music library in about 5 minutes, unofficially of course. As part of the DRM dropping announcement they also introduced the option to "upgrade" some or all your DRMed music to the higher bit rate non-DRMed music for the free, or the some of the price difference, or at worst case, the price difference between what was originally paid and the current pricing.) In fact, someone that bought $20 of stuff years ago can go on itunes TODAY and upgrade it all to DRM free for the price difference between what they paid and the current rate.

Re:Content is king.. (1)

Microlith (54737) | more than 3 years ago | (#36232242)

There's DRM wrapped around everything else available from the store. Get back to me when that's not the case.

Re:Content is king.. (1)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 3 years ago | (#36232344)

...which would be a lot more meaningful if all Apple sold was music.

Apple still benefits greatly from DRM and being generally difficult to deal with when it comes to anything that was not purchased from Apple.

The path of least resistance is clearly marked. At the end of that path is Steve Jobs with a cash register.

Re:Content is king.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36231990)

Content is king and if they ain't got the content, then they are not really going to be able to compete

I know people seem to like to bash Apple for DRM, but who do you think is pushing for DRM? (Hint: The people that control the content).

so much fail in one post.

1. Apple music no longer has DRM.
2. Miro has all the same premium content as well -- from both the Google Market AND Amazon's Mp3 Store.

And I'm so sure (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36231432)

And I'm so sure that Apple with its millions of iTunes users and the 10+ billion downloads of songs is really quaking in their boots over some obscure piece of software with 4 users.

Re:And I'm so sure (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36231636)

And I'm so sure that Apple with its millions of iTunes users and the 10+ billion downloads of songs is really quaking in their boots over some obscure piece of software with 4 users.

Oh, so that's what the '4' stands for.

Re:And I'm so sure (2)

605dave (722736) | more than 3 years ago | (#36231712)

Miro has 2 million active users, and this was before the current release.

Re:And I'm so sure (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36231764)

Yep, and Ubuntu has 50 million users. We can all make up any stats we want.

Re:And I'm so sure (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36232156)

Miro has 2 million active users, and this was before the current release.

[citation needed]

Re:And I'm so sure (1)

jellomizer (103300) | more than 3 years ago | (#36232488)

So about 0.03% of the population huh.

Re:And I'm so sure (1)

Risen888 (306092) | more than 3 years ago | (#36232524)

We don't give a fuck about that. We'll keep making better shit. That's its own reward. Inevitable world domination is just gravy.

Not going to work (4, Insightful)

gentlemen_loser (817960) | more than 3 years ago | (#36231472)

Any time any company or organization markets itself as "the [insert adjective] [insert proper noun] alternative for the [insert other proper noun]" the group is destined to failure. The issue is, at its heart, where the company is coming from. Rather than trying to invent a great music/video player, they are trying to invent an iTunes (or anything else) clone. Please STOP! Go invent a great, open source, cross platform music player without looking at iTunes and people will come.

Don't believe me? In the electronic music community, there is a synth called Zebra 2. Its from a company run and developed entirely by one guy who never advertised it. He never pitched it as the "something for the something else alternative." He just made a great fucking synth. After a short amount of time, word got out, all of the music rags covered it, and now it tops all of the "greatest synth" lists.

You will never get anywhere making a clone. You'll always be a step behind.

Re:Not going to work (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36231604)

Kind of a broad criticism, don't you think? Firefox and Android both have been positioned that way, with huge success. What matters is the quality of the product and Miro is very solid and very needed for Android users.

Re:Not going to work (1)

SideshowBob (82333) | more than 3 years ago | (#36232170)

It's interesting that you chose those 2 examples because I would assert that their success is due to similar reasons. They both benefitted by filling a void neglected by the top competitor. In Firefox's case Microsoft had allowed IE to languish. In Android's case Apple was stuck in an exclusivity deal with AT&T and Android was something that the other networks could run against the iPhone.

Re:Not going to work (1)

Vyse of Arcadia (1220278) | more than 3 years ago | (#36231856)

Example #2: Amarok, the most kick-ass music player there is.

Re:Not going to work (1)

Hatta (162192) | more than 3 years ago | (#36231916)

Any time any company or organization markets itself as "the [insert adjective] [insert proper noun] alternative for the [insert other proper noun]" the group is destined to failure

Absolutely. For instance, a project that billed itself as "the free UNIX alternative for the PC" could never go anywhere.

Re:Not going to work (1)

joh (27088) | more than 3 years ago | (#36231950)

You will never get anywhere making a clone. You'll always be a step behind.

Yeah, but at least you're behind the leader which is more than where you'd be when you wouldn't try that.

This isn't new. Linux is a Unix clone, then tried to become a Windows clone until Gnome tried to clone OS X. Miro tried to be something original and nobody cared and now Miro tries to clone iTunes for Android (which tried to clone iOS). So what?

Coming up with something original *and* being successful with that is really, really hard.

Re:Not going to work (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 3 years ago | (#36232230)

Linux might be a Unix clone, but the kernel never tried to be windows. Gnome and KDE tried that.

Android did not clone iOS at all. Not anymore than iOS cloned the smartphones that came before it.

Re:Not going to work (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36232374)

To be fair, Miro is a free internet TV app that does bittorrent, downloads from any website in standard formats, etc. It's FAR SUPERIOR to iTunes. I don't even know why Miro is associating itself with those clowns.

Re:Not going to work (1)

hsmyers (142611) | more than 3 years ago | (#36232418)

To damn bad Microsoft didn't pay attention to you when they cloned _________ (fill in the blank on the product of your choice) obviously all of these were failures. Your abysmal ignorance of the history of software evolution over the last 3 decades is rather remarkable----definitely worthy of the +5insightful, oh yes indeedy!

Re:Not going to work (1)

Risen888 (306092) | more than 3 years ago | (#36232528)

Rather than trying to invent a great music/video player, they are trying to invent an iTunes (or anything else) clone.

Have you ever even seen Miro? This is an absurd statement.

Does not every other used FOSS player do the same? (1)

nzac (1822298) | more than 3 years ago | (#36231496)

Though i did not read the article, i though every other full featured useful FOSS player have the same features except for android syncing.

Though every new iOS breaks it, libipod has worked in the past.

No Competition (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36231562)

There is no competition here. At least iTunes works when you start it up. Miro 4.0 has been giving me this "There is no disk in the drive..." crap. I guess for Android, I'll have to stick with Songbird for open source.

And I wonder, what has happened to make the internet community associate "Open Source" with "better"? Sure some Open Source software is great such as OpenOffice, VLC, Firefox, and the Chromium Project. But others aren't so great *cough* ATI Drivers on any platform and now Miro 4.0.

Re:No Competition (1)

mattcsn (1592281) | more than 3 years ago | (#36231682)

I got the exact same error. I had my android phone plugged in to charge, but had ejected it so I could access the micro-sd card. Unplugging the cable fixed the problem.

WinAmp (1)

Archangel Michael (180766) | more than 3 years ago | (#36231608)

While it is Windows only, it is solid, offers Android support and just ... works. If you're Apple, you're gonna be an Fanboi anyway and use iTunes. If you're on Linux, you'll use some crappy software and feel all superior about not buying DRMed Music from Apple (which doesn't even sell DRMed music any longer).

Re:WinAmp (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36231980)

Wow... I remember when Slashdot actually had an audience full of informed geeks, now it's full of teenage Windows fanbois, what a disgusting change.

Really? (1)

lennier1 (264730) | more than 3 years ago | (#36231668)

Did it change that much?

Last time I tried Miro it was such a waste of time it didn't survive more than 10 minutes on my harddisk.

windows bug fixed today (2)

ravrore (1769516) | more than 3 years ago | (#36231726)

The Miro folks say that the Windows bug described in the 'rough edges' link above has been fixed and the update will be released today.

Not switching over (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36231768)

Although built-in LAN streaming, media conversion and Android syncing are all tempting, it's nothing I can't already do with VLC, ffmpeg, lame, and rsync (Android rsyncd over WLAN is awesome).

Besides, Miro and Last.fm don't seem to cooperate, neither with the Last.fm client nor with any Miro extension.

To date, the only media players I know that let me keep my media library arranged by folders are foobar2000 (Windows, Last.fm client supported) and mplayer (Linux, lastfmsubmitd).

9 reasons Miro is not better than what I use now. (1, Insightful)

Hatta (162192) | more than 3 years ago | (#36231868)

1)Works with my current music library. -- So does mplayer.

2)Converts and syncs to Android -- I don't have an android.

3)Buy Music and Apps inside Miro -- I like my music and apps free thanks.

4)Download and play almost any video -- So does mplayer

5)Convert any video -- Again, mplayer

6)Share Your Media on your Network -- This is what Samba is for.

7)Open-source - don't lock yourself in! -- Excellent point, but not superior to what I use now.

8)Ultra-fast torrent downloading -- Do one thing and do it well. Can Miro be controlled programatically like rTorrent?

9) But it's not about the features! -- I'm not even sure what that means.

God, I hate marketing. Bullshit doesn't smell any nicer when it's coming from open source.

What free music? (0)

tepples (727027) | more than 3 years ago | (#36232010)

2)Converts and syncs to Android -- I don't have an android.

What pocket-size music playing device do you have instead, and what software do you currently use to sync to that?

3)Buy Music and Apps inside Miro -- I like my music and apps free thanks.

Free music? Another Slashdot user seems to think [slashdot.org] that free music consists of "sucky indie bands who need to practice more and promote less, and that's about it". What free music were you thinking of?

Re:What free music? (1)

CronoCloud (590650) | more than 3 years ago | (#36232248)

What pocket-size music playing device do you have instead, and what software do you currently use to sync to that?

I'm not the person you're responding to, but I decided to answer. I have a PSP (and an old V3xx Razr), and I use either the terminal or nautilus. Being of an older generation I think in terms of Albums, not singles.

Re:What free music? (1)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 3 years ago | (#36232402)

> Being of an older generation I think in terms of Albums, not singles.

I find that aspect of iTunes really quite annoying.

Re:What free music? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36232328)

Diablo Swing Orchestra and TenPenny Joke have both enjoyed huge success on jamendo... Both pretty awesome, IMO.

Re:What free music? (1)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 3 years ago | (#36232384)

> What pocket-size music playing device do you have instead,

An Android tablet.

> and what software do you currently use to sync to that?

For automated syncing: rsync.

For non-automated syncing: Nautilus.

There's usually no good reason to bother with special proprietary tools just to move files around.

Re:9 reasons Miro is not better than what I use no (1)

petsounds (593538) | more than 3 years ago | (#36232380)

3)Buy Music and Apps inside Miro -- I like my music and apps free thanks.

Eh? I imagine there is some freely-released music out there, but by and large most artists are trying to put food on the table. Or did you mean free-as-in-screw-the-artist?

As for Miro itself, yeah, no thanks. First, the installer tries to put some Yahoo crapware on your system, which pretty much makes the app untrustworthy as far as I'm concerned. But it also tries to emulate the iTunes UI to a fault, while not really offering anything better in terms of finding/playing/arranging music.

Re:9 reasons Miro is not better than what I use no (1)

Risen888 (306092) | more than 3 years ago | (#36232546)

I'd like to know if it syncs to normal mp3 players. I really used to like Miro, but the lack of that feature pushed me to Gpodder (which I also like, but lacks some whizbang stuff I had become used to with Miro, like a way better catalog).

lucene sqlite (1)

fak3r (917687) | more than 3 years ago | (#36231902)

I have a lot of music, so far the search UI is pretty sluggish (and I've run it on the commaline so I could watch when the indexing was complete). I'm wondering if lucene would be a better choice than sqlite for building the index. Subsonic (yes, it's web based, so for streaming music, not the exact same thing - but about the same amount of data to index) uses lucene and its search functionality is very nice and fast.

Not quite ready for prime time (1)

Tim_F (12524) | more than 3 years ago | (#36231974)

This article really makes me want to bring out an old trolling account...

Miro is not quite ready for prime time:

1) It uses GTK on Windows. This makes the app look childish. Why couldn't they use internal Windows decorations?
2) The interface is not up to snuff. It looks unprofessional.

Now, the good stuff:

1) I can finally use it as a replacement for iTunes to listen to my podcasts. I have tried this with each major Miro release and this is the first one that does what I would expect it to. If only it did this without looking as ugly as sin.

If I was a troll I might throw in something about how Gnome used to use GTK and how this made it also look childish. It wasn't until Ubuntu switched Gnome to something other than GTK that it began to look usable.

--Tim

Re:Not quite ready for prime time (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36232362)

Tim, I work on Miro and I'd actually really appreciate some advice on what you think would make Miro look better on windows, if you want to get in touch- nicholas - @ - pculture.org We will be making a lot of tweaks for the next release.

I Use Miro (3, Interesting)

Gnaythan1 (214245) | more than 3 years ago | (#36232226)

I've had it on my computer for a couple years now. It had codecs for a bunch of videos I had on my system from a LONG time ago. I like it. I noticed a new update popped up when I watched a video on it yesterday. I always have a couple redundant systems on my computer so if one of my old files doesn't work I can test it on something else. Miro is as good as anything else for watching movies on, and having options besides the big dominating one is always a good thing.
.

The power behind Apple (4, Interesting)

theurge14 (820596) | more than 3 years ago | (#36232378)

Apple had the power to leverage (iPod sales, etc) to convince the large record companies to make their music available to purchase through the iTunes store.

Does an open source venture such as Miro have that sort of power?

(And do the people at Miro realize that iTunes tracks have been DRM free for over 2 years now?)

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