Beta

Slashdot: News for Nerds

×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Senate Passes 4-Year Re-Up of Patriot Act Provisions

timothy posted more than 3 years ago | from the but-sir-patriot-must-be-in-all-caps dept.

United States 422

Bloomberg News reports that, as expected, today "[t]he US Senate approved a four-year extension of provisions in the USA Patriot Act allowing law enforcement to track suspected terrorists with roving wiretaps. ... The measure goes to the House for final passage before being sent to President Barack Obama for his signature. The surveillance powers would be extended until June 1, 2015." The story mentions that the Patriot Act powers this approval includes would extend "to so-called 'lone wolf' suspects who aren't affiliated with any terrorist group."

cancel ×

422 comments

Yawn. (-1, Offtopic)

Black Parrot (19622) | more than 3 years ago | (#36257486)

The Rapture is going to occur in October. 2012-2015 aren't of any interest.

Re:Yawn. (1)

jhoegl (638955) | more than 3 years ago | (#36257648)

I agree, many people will die between 2012 and 2015.
Would you also like to predict which way water falls?

Re:Yawn. (0)

jd (1658) | more than 3 years ago | (#36257842)

Upwards in Australia, relative to Europe.

Did your congressman do his duty? (5, Insightful)

jcr (53032) | more than 3 years ago | (#36257516)

If your congressman or senator failed to vote against this violation of the fourth and fifth amendments, he or she has violated their oath of office. Don't vote for them again unless you want this shit to continue.

-jcr

Re:Did your congressman do his duty? (3, Insightful)

ickleberry (864871) | more than 3 years ago | (#36257606)

There are unfortunately only two options in US politics: The Frying pan and the shiny new futuristic looking Frying pan with a non-stick coating

Re:Did your congressman do his duty? (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36257942)

people like you who think this retarded shit are the reason we have nothing but the shitty futuristic frying pan to look forward to. run a campaign for someone in your home town who shows promise. ffs run yourself. if enough people did it and fucked with the system the system might churn out some results other than this crap. but no, you're an ass. and everyone around you is an ass too. like 290 million asses. and we wonder why things are going to hell.

Re:Did your congressman do his duty? (5, Insightful)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 3 years ago | (#36258118)

And if people stopped buying shitty appliances, producers would have to produce what the customer wants and the free market system would work.

Guess what? We still have shitty politicians, we still have crappy goods and we still don't get what we really want in either. Why? Because people can't organize, that's why.

So please, keep your ivory tower ideas to yourself unless you also provide an idea how to implement them.

Re:Did your congressman do his duty? (3, Insightful)

bigstrat2003 (1058574) | more than 3 years ago | (#36258152)

Change starts with you. Sitting around talking about how things are hopeless only ensures that things really are hopeless.

Re:Did your congressman do his duty? (5, Interesting)

interkin3tic (1469267) | more than 3 years ago | (#36258294)

There are unfortunately only two options in US politics: The Frying pan and the shiny new futuristic looking Frying pan with a non-stick coating

This is not an issue of the two party system, this is an issue of "the public is largely ignorant."

It always annoys me in these discussions when someone suggests the structure of our politics is somehow to blame. That's blaming someone else for our failings, it has nothing to with the number of boxes on a ballot. If more than 50% of the voters wanted the patriot act gone, republicans AND democrats would be slinging mud about "I'd get rid of it a FULL DAY SOONER than my opponent would!" Getting rid of it does -not- require voting in a third party (which, not for nothing, would require us to get rid of the first-past-the-post voting system we have, a move which WOULD require a third party to be voted in).

It's stuck with us because the voters these days are morons who are scared of foreigners with bombs, and are exactly the type of fools who would give up essential liberty for a little bit of security. Politicians are salesmen: they're going to give the customer what they want, not what they need.

We're too gullible when they're campaigning if we seriously believe voting for anyone of any party and then doing nothing else has a good chance of changing anything. Politicians usually don't have the power to lead us very far, politicians can't convince us that the patriot act is an abomination, most of them don't even try. Cable news isn't going to try, terrorism and stoking our fears is too sexy and gets too many viewers to kill that golden goose. To get rid of the PATRIOT act requires those US to inform other voters of what a bad idea it is. Voting for a third party candidate is, in my humble opinion, purely a waste of time if you're just going to check "libertarian" or "green" and do nothing else about it.

That is a tall order. And, full disclosure, I'm busy trying to cure spinal cord injuries and play videogames to campaign against the patriot act. I don't have a problem with apathy, but I do find fault with lying to ourselves that the 2 party system is the problem.

Re:Did your congressman do his duty? (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36257624)

What's the bill number so we can look it up???

Re:Did your congressman do his duty? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36257770)

What's the bill number so we can look it up???

Sorry, Citizen, that's classified.

Re:Did your congressman do his duty? (5, Informative)

l00sr (266426) | more than 3 years ago | (#36257966)

I believe this is the bill, intuitively titled Small Business Additional Temporary Extension Act of 2011 [opencongress.org] . Apparently, this bill was "amended" by removing and replacing the entire text with the PATRIOT ACT renewal! [dailykos.com]

Any senator NOT in the following list has some serious explaining to do:
Sen. Max Baucus [D, MT]
Sen. Mark Begich [D, AK]
Sen. Jeff Bingaman [D, NM]
Sen. Sherrod Brown [D, OH]
Sen. Maria Cantwell [D, WA]
Sen. Benjamin Cardin [D, MD]
Sen. Dean Heller [R, NV]
Sen. Patrick Leahy [D, VT]
Sen. Mike Lee [R, UT]
Sen. Jeff Merkley [D, OR]
Sen. Lisa Murkowski [R, AK]
Sen. Rand Paul [R, KY]
Sen. Bernard Sanders [I, VT]
Sen. Jeanne Shaheen [D, NH]
Sen. Jon Tester [D, MT]
Sen. Tom Udall [D, NM]
Sen. Mark Udall [D, CO]
Sen. Ron Wyden [D, OR]

Re:Did your congressman do his duty? (1)

nschubach (922175) | more than 3 years ago | (#36258010)

I'm not exactly sure how they are related, but this one specifically mentions the PATRIOT Act:
http://www.opencongress.org/vote/2011/s/19 [opencongress.org]

Re:Did your congressman do his duty? (3, Informative)

nschubach (922175) | more than 3 years ago | (#36258198)

Actually, I think a lot of people are looking at the wrong bill... The one I posted above is from February (sorry) but this one was from today:
http://politics.nytimes.com/congress/votes/112/senate/1/84 [nytimes.com]

Re:Did your congressman do his duty? (3, Informative)

DoomHamster (1918204) | more than 3 years ago | (#36258228)

Here is the official roll call, btw:

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=112&session=1&vote=00084 [senate.gov]

As noted, the name of the bill is completely unrelated because they took the unrelated bill and completely replaced it with the patriot act renewal. This is the type of practice that happens all the time. Running the congress app on my android has opened my eyes to the shenanigans that are pulled daily. Our government is a sham, folks.

This is just the tip of the iceberg, John. (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36257656)

John, this legislation is nothing but the very tip of the iceberg. Even if it were canned, nothing would really change. Your entire society has some pretty severe problems with it these days, and this sort of legislation is perhaps even one of the most minor of all of the problems.

Your nation's economy is in the shitter thanks to outsourcing, "free trade" and several costly wars that have been lost (Iraq) or are in the process of being lost (Afghanistan). Many Americans live in conditions that are worse than those of even the shittiest third-world nations.

Then there's been the massive rise of stupidity. Education is frowned upon in many areas of the United States. Combined with religion, this becomes a very dangerous mix. The fact that the Republican Party gets any support at all these days is an excellent indicator of just how bad the situation has become.

There are so many systemic problems at play that solving just one or two won't do a damn thing to improve the entire situation.

Re:This is just the tip of the iceberg, John. (1, Troll)

LordLimecat (1103839) | more than 3 years ago | (#36257918)

The fact that the Republican Party gets any support at all these days is an excellent indicator of just how bad the situation has become.

Good thing we have Europe to bail us out, right? Also, I didnt get the memo about how we lost in Iraq (though Saddam was dead, dontcha kno), or in Afghanistan.

Education is frowned upon in many areas of the United States.

Which areas?

Combined with religion, this becomes a very dangerous mix.

Yes, those terrible Catholic private schools and those awful awful homeschoolers, what with their above average test scores and whatnot...

The fact that the Republican Party gets any support at all these days is an excellent indicator of just how bad the situation has become.

Youd almost think that those retarded Republicans thought the founding principle of the country was a small, limited federal government, or something...

Many Americans live in conditions that are worse than those of even the shittiest third-world nations.

Ah, bless your heart, you werent serious, youre just a troll.

Re:This is just the tip of the iceberg, John. (4, Insightful)

s73v3r (963317) | more than 3 years ago | (#36258024)

Youd almost think that those retarded Republicans thought the founding principle of the country was a small, limited federal government, or something...

Nothing the Republican Party has done in the past 50 years has illustrated that they actually believe this.

Re:This is just the tip of the iceberg, John. (1)

nschubach (922175) | more than 3 years ago | (#36258138)

Which party were we talking about again?

Re:This is just the tip of the iceberg, John. (1, Insightful)

LordLimecat (1103839) | more than 3 years ago | (#36258162)

Im sorry, its almost like youre trying to blame me for what other people have done, or infer what I believe from what others have done.

That aside, Republicans believe in a smaller government than the Democrats, and thats a good first step in my eyes.

Re:This is just the tip of the iceberg, John. (2, Insightful)

geminidomino (614729) | more than 3 years ago | (#36258264)

That aside, Republicans believe in a smaller government than the Democrats, and thats a good first step in my eyes.

Except they really kind of... don't. At all. They just disagree in which areas the government should step in and fuck things up (Interfering with our corporate overlords vs. say... marriage.)

Been that way for at least 25 years (probably more but I would have been too young to remember).

Re:This is just the tip of the iceberg, John. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36258274)

Really? Why did more democrats vote no then republicans?

I could ask 100 questions like that that show you that Repubs are only for small gov in name only. Obviously you've consumed the kool-aid.

Re:This is just the tip of the iceberg, John. (2, Insightful)

jhoegl (638955) | more than 3 years ago | (#36258160)

Actually some of the points are valid.
Our schools are receiving less and less money, reducing our GPA as a whole and decreasing our abilities to field educated people in our society.
The issues in Texas where they have put creationism in books, a fundamentally specific religious ideology towards christianity.
The issue where the Church somehow gets a pass on pedoiphilia without being prosecuted.
Republicans do have that ideology, but constantly increase government, look at both Bushes vs Clinton.
What they do though, is they try to underfund/undermine those parts of the government that actually look after consumers and patrons.
Queue images of Gulf Oil Spill and Katrina.

Re:This is just the tip of the iceberg, John. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36258346)

The Iraq War was a failure and a loss because America spend billions upon billions of dollars killing innocent civilians and destroying harmless mud brick buildings. Had even just a single year's worth of Iraq War expenditure been put towards education or health care (or even both at the same time!), millions of Americans would be far better off now. It's pretty much the same situation in Afghanistan.

Education is frowned upon in basically every state but California and those in New England. The pure hatred of education and knowledge is by far the worst in places like Alabama, Arkansas, Tennessee, Oklahoma, Mississippi, Missouri, Kentucky, West Virginia, Georgia, the Carolinas, and even Wyoming and Montana. Not surprisingly, these areas have extremely high levels of poverty. If you haven't visited them recently, please do so. See for yourself how many Americans live in conditions that even the poorest Africans would find intolerable.

Re:This is just the tip of the iceberg, John. (5, Interesting)

jd (1658) | more than 3 years ago | (#36257998)

I disagree, in that I believe firmly that if education were massively improved (and I mean massively), many of the other problems would become obvious to the majority of people as would the solutions. People function with split realities, but not well, and the more extreme the split the greater the discomfort. Deliberately worsen that discomfort through high quality (and maximal quantity) education. These will be the people who do the voting in 20 years time and who will also be the candidates then as well. Superior voters with superior candidates to choose will necessarily improve the situation as a whole.

Those will also be the businesspeople in that timeframe and thus will be making more rational decisions on what jobs are appropriate to be overseas and what jobs are appropriate here.

An informed electorate, or so Plato tells us, will also be less eager to go to war and less eager to blindly follow populist leaders. Indeed, he made it an essential criterion for a functional democracy. The experience of the last decade tells us he was right on the dangers of ignorance, so it seems worth testing whether he was right on the benefits of knowledge and wisdom.

Education alone won't fix all the issues, but I see no reason why - over time - it wouldn't solve a good number. Combine it with quality public healthcare and you solve many of the problems that ill-health cause (weakened economy, reduced opportunity, reduced flexibility, inferior mobility, desires for feel-good politics and/or substance-abuse, etc.)

That last one is worth reflecting on a bit. Religion may be the opiate of the masses, but feel-good politics is crack cocaine. Neither is good for you, both should be avoided where possible, but populist politicians are infinitely more dangerous than populist preachers. Jim Jones killed less than a thousand in total, fanatical politicians in 1914-1918 were managing to average that per day per nation for four years.

Re:This is just the tip of the iceberg, John. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36258196)

I disagree, in that I believe firmly that if education were massively improved (and I mean massively), many of the other problems would become obvious to the majority of people as would the solutions.

Educated people are much more difficult to entice into armed service (unless they are leading). Canada (at least, the province of Alberta), is going down this road too. More undereducated people, more focus on military assertion. It isn't pretty, especially when all that aggression has nowhere to vent...

Re:Did your congressman do his duty? (5, Insightful)

Seumas (6865) | more than 3 years ago | (#36257740)

Maybe people will start to finally learn that the choices they are fed are bullshit and that both A and B are part of the greater subject -- C. If you vote for A, it benefits C. If you vote for B, it benefits C. Instead of idiots arguing "derp derp derp red versus blue" they might finally invest that energy into understanding what is really going on and doing something about it. Then again, probably not.

I'm sure the president has the ability to veto this though. Surely he will? All these people that were so intent on voting this past election for "change" because the new jackass was going to be entirely different from the last jackass are surely going to have saved us from evil, right? So their pony will do everything he can to overthrow the USAPATRIOT Act, right? That must be why we haven't heard him say a single damn word about it. At all. Because he's just holding his tongue, so he can wield the veto power, yeah?

I'm sure everyone will finally stop investing all of their energy in Obama's birth certificate and being raging homophobes and marching around abortion clinics so they can focus on things that are actually impacting our entire way of life, like government oppression and the absolute corruption of government by corporate shills. Right?

Re:Did your congressman do his duty? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36257962)

Careful, you might get targeted as a "lone wolf" sort of terrorist these wiretaps are meant to catch - discarding the fact that a "lone wolf" would be very unlikely to be caught making a phone call...

Re:Did your congressman do his duty? (4, Informative)

grahamd0 (1129971) | more than 3 years ago | (#36258340)

That must be why we haven't heard him say a single damn word about it. At all. Because he's just holding his tongue, so he can wield the veto power, yeah?

It's actually worse than holding his tongue. He has come out in support of the renewal and accused the short list of senators opposed to it of threatening national security.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2011/05/obama-administration-says-rand-paul-risking-national-security-by-delaying-patriot-act.html

Re:Did your congressman do his duty? (1)

interkin3tic (1469267) | more than 3 years ago | (#36258342)

Maybe people will start to finally learn that the choices they are fed are bullshit and that both A and B are part of the greater subject -- C. If you vote for A, it benefits C. If you vote for B, it benefits C. Instead of idiots arguing "derp derp derp red versus blue" they might finally invest that energy into understanding what is really going on and doing something about it. Then again, probably not.

It might help if you were a little more specific... I mean, are we talking A and B as in the parties and C is corporate overlords?

I mean, idiots like me aren't idiots because we catch on really quickly...

Re:Did your congressman do his duty? (1)

blair1q (305137) | more than 3 years ago | (#36257764)

Haha. You voted for any of these incompetent clowns?

The guy I voted for got beat by money that was backing a puppet.

Re:Did your congressman do his duty? (1)

jhoegl (638955) | more than 3 years ago | (#36257890)

The guy I voted for got beat by money that was backing a puppet.

redundant comment is redundant

Re:Did your congressman do his duty? (1)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 3 years ago | (#36258172)

Erh... of COURSE he was beat by money that was backing a puppet! Nothing else was running!

Re:Did your congressman do his duty? (5, Insightful)

NFN_NLN (633283) | more than 3 years ago | (#36257856)

If your congressman or senator failed to vote against this violation of the fourth and fifth amendments, he or she has violated their oath of office. Don't vote for them again unless you want this shit to continue.

-jcr

I hope this is a lesson to everyone regarding temporary suspension of powers. There is NO SUCH THING AS TEMPORARY. Once you give them away they are gone until the next revolution and re-establishment of laws.

Re:Did your congressman do his duty? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36257902)

It's the friendly naming that seems to fool people so they don't get upset. Call it what it is the "Domestic Spying Act" or the "Spying Against Anyone We Don't Approve Of Act". The purpose is to spy against people that potentially threaten the status quo not against groups that threaten Americans. It's a new McCarthy style witch hunt and nothing else.

Re:Did your congressman do his duty? (3, Insightful)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 3 years ago | (#36258192)

Take any speech of McCarty and replace communist with terrorist and every reference to Russia with a reference to some Arab country and you'd be amazed how recyclable it is...

Re:Did your congressman do his duty? (3, Informative)

artor3 (1344997) | more than 3 years ago | (#36258070)

See how your senators voted here [nytimes.com] . I'm happy to see that both my senators (Cantwell and Murray) voted against.

The Patriot Act isn't as invulnerable as it once was. It got only 72 votes in favor -- twelve above the necessary threshold. Maybe we can get rid of it in ten years or so.

Re:Did your congressman do his duty? (1)

Algae_94 (2017070) | more than 3 years ago | (#36258170)

Thanks for the link. It's good to see that as much as Sarah Palin has tried to destroy the reputation of Alaskans both of my Senators (Begich and Murkowski) voted against.

Re:Did your congressman do his duty? (1)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 3 years ago | (#36258202)

Then it would have taken two decades to get rid of something temporary. That's longer than it took to get rid of an empire supposedly lasting a millenium!

(Hi Godwin)

Re:Did your congressman do his duty? (1)

Kelbear (870538) | more than 3 years ago | (#36258260)

See which way your congressman voted on this issue:
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=107&session=1&vote=00313#position [senate.gov]

Spoiler: Feingold (D-WI) voted Nay, and Landrieu (D-LA) did not vote. The other 98 voted Yea.

Re:Did your congressman do his duty? (1)

Kelbear (870538) | more than 3 years ago | (#36258314)

*facepalm* Goddammit, jumped the gun and grabbed the original vote! Looks like the site hasn't been updated with the vote on the extension.

Re:Did your congressman do his duty? (1)

interkin3tic (1469267) | more than 3 years ago | (#36258318)

Don't vote for them again unless you want this shit to continue.

I would point out that the primary season would be most effective time to raise the issue. If you're merely going to wait for the general election and choose between R, D, or whatever, you've likely missed the opportunity. I mean, you can probably make a symbolic statement by voting 3rd party, and can earn a pat on the back for that, but if you actually want it gone, it's not so simple.

Re:Did your congressman do his duty? (1)

NotQuiteReal (608241) | more than 3 years ago | (#36258356)

Don't vote for them again What do you mean again? I didn't vote for them in the first place.

I've have voted in every election for the last 30 years and my candidates rarely win. My conscious is clear.

"lone wolf" suspects (5, Insightful)

itsenrique (846636) | more than 3 years ago | (#36257528)

Oh god, here it is. The latest in fear buzzword technology. "Hunker down", WMD, axis of evil, and now the "lone wolf". I miss when "lock box" was the stupidest of these pre-9/11. The worst part is, the media keeps using these deceitful memes and people just keep eating bowl after bowl of this shit.

Re:"lone wolf" suspects (4, Insightful)

jd (1658) | more than 3 years ago | (#36258022)

Lone wolf is particularly bad. Wolves are horrible hunters when solitary. They're only a significant threat to anything in packs. (The German U-Boat fleet discovered that, too, when they became incapable of forming their own wolfpacks.)

If you want a meme that describes solitary madmen, "lone lolcat" would be more effective. Cats are dangerous on their own. Just ask a cheezburger.

Re:"lone wolf" suspects (1)

XxtraLarGe (551297) | more than 3 years ago | (#36258130)

You guys may not know this, but I consider myselfâ¦a bit of a loner. I tend to think of myself as a one man wolf pack. And then about 10 years ago, a cow-orker introduced me to /., and I thought â¦wait a second, could it be? And now I know for sure, I just added 1 million more geeks to my wolf pack. Millions of us wolves running around the internet together, looking for Beowulf Clusters & Turing Completeness. So tonight, we make a toast!

Re:"lone wolf" suspects (1)

XxtraLarGe (551297) | more than 3 years ago | (#36258158)

Why did /. turn my ellipses into Ã|???

Re:"lone wolf" suspects (2)

XxtraLarGe (551297) | more than 3 years ago | (#36258334)

Why did /. turn my à into Ãf???

Re:"lone wolf" suspects (3, Insightful)

misexistentialist (1537887) | more than 3 years ago | (#36258330)

The nature of government is expansionary. Since "lone wolves" have no ties to terrorism and few obvious characteristics, intensive surveillance and broad restrictive measures must be wielded against 100% of population.

Sad (2)

DoomHamster (1918204) | more than 3 years ago | (#36257534)

This thing is never going away...

Lone wolf? (5, Insightful)

cant_get_a_good_nick (172131) | more than 3 years ago | (#36257550)

approval would extend "to so-called “lone wolf” suspects who aren’t affiliated with any terrorist group."

So, more needle in a haystack stuff, we need to violate everybody's privacy just in case one in the 7billlion people on the planet hate us. Didn't they use to hate us for our freedom? Not a problem anymore....

Re:Lone wolf? (0)

itsenrique (846636) | more than 3 years ago | (#36257576)

I think they hate us cause of Israel.

Re:Lone wolf? (0)

Black Parrot (19622) | more than 3 years ago | (#36257680)

I think they hate us cause of Israel.

Didn't OBL explicitly say that he wanted to bring down the WTC after he saw the ruin of the buildings of Lebanon?

Re:Lone wolf? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36258110)

No.

Re:Lone wolf? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36258220)

"I think they hate us cause of Israel."

You're right.

Of course the truth is deliberately obscured by the very powerful
Jewish lobby in the United States. But even they cannot hide the truth
from the rest of the world. Ask anyone from Europe what he or she
thinks of Israel's conduct as a state. The answer, providing the person
you ask is not a Jew, will probably shock you.

Re:Lone wolf? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36257804)

THEY hated YOU for being self centered SOBs who imposed their standards on everyone else.

That hasn't changed.

Re:Lone wolf? (1)

jhoegl (638955) | more than 3 years ago | (#36257936)

If it is my standard to prevent mutilation of teens, then I am self centered
If it is my standard to prevent stoning of people, then I am self centered
If it is my standard to require due process and truth, then I am self centered
If it is my standard to require people treated humanely, then I am self centered

If it is your standard that people be killed on your word, then you are .........
If it is your standard that people not receive due process, then you are .........
If it is your standard that vigilantism trumps the rule of law, then you are .........

Re:Lone wolf? (1)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 3 years ago | (#36258248)

Yes. Yes you are.

It's not your prerogative to tell the people of the world how to live their life. Personally, I don't know why stoning should be seen as a sensible way to punish a crime, but thankfully I'm not subject to this kind of punishment. And since I don't want to be, I simply stay out of countries where people think it's a good idea.

If these people want it differently, I guess it's their, and not my, right to change that. By vote, by force, by whatever means they please. If it's something I like, I might go and visit. If it's not, I'll just stay here. If someone tries to force the idea that stoning is a good idea to punish someone into my country, I'll do my best to kick him out.

The same's true if someone thinks the ridiculously backwards legal system of the US should be imported here, btw.

Re:Lone wolf? (2)

LordLimecat (1103839) | more than 3 years ago | (#36257986)

Many Americans live in conditions that are worse than those of even the shittiest third-world nations.

Well, heres the decision that has to be made-- are you able to live with the fact that, in a free society, someone could decide to end your life and there is little that could be done to prevent it?

If not, then be prepared to give up freedoms for each and every ounce of security and peace of mind that you want.

On the flip side, if you want your freedoms, be prepared to accept that, occasionally, really tragic things can happen to you, or your loved ones, and the most society will be able to do is punish the perpetrators after the fact.

I think if you were to gather opinion from the population at large, you would find them leaning heavily towards the "protect me from all danger" end of the spectrum; hence things like the patriot act (which, truth be told, probably do wonderful things for law enforcement)

Right violations on the installment plan (5, Insightful)

The Archon V2.0 (782634) | more than 3 years ago | (#36257556)

Because now that Osama is dead, this abomination is now to protect from mysterious random people.... A nice way of saying the PATRIOT act will stop being extended when we get rid of every last human being who hates America.

Re:Right violations on the installment plan (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36258046)

So the PATRIOT act will get rid of the Senate? I hope so.
But actually, the PATRIOT act is about the most un-American thing you can do. The only thing that could surpass that, would be a full-scale totalitarian fascist regime.
(But who needs that old technology, when you can use modern social engineering and mass-media, to make people *want* all is effects, without needing any of its enforcement. That actually beat the 1984-style total surveillance. Since you don't need to force that which is has become a part of your mindset anyway.)

Re:Right violations on the installment plan (1)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 3 years ago | (#36258256)

Let's play a game of thermonuclear war? Just to end this madness.

it goes beyond mere roving wiretaps (5, Insightful)

praedor (218403) | more than 3 years ago | (#36257580)

And goes into a 4 year extension of Big Brother spying on what books you read or buy, what your emails contain, etc. It allows Big Brother to collect information on you sans any justification whatsoever - you don't even need to have ANY connection to a so-called "terrorist" or "terrorist organization" (like environmental groups, worker's rights groups, anti-corporate groups, etc...you know, horrific "terrorists").

It is not a "yawn". It is yet another shiv into the heart of so-called "liberty" and "freedom".

Land of the free, home of the brave MY ASS. Land of the chattle, home of pansy candyasses is more accurate.

Re:it goes beyond mere roving wiretaps (4, Insightful)

bmo (77928) | more than 3 years ago | (#36257644)

>home of pansy candyasses is more accurate.

Indeed, we used to be braver than this not that long ago.

All the boomer "rebels" turned into fraidycats.

No protest songs.
No protests.
If Kent State happened today, people would just shrug their shoulders and blame "the terrorists"

--
BMO

Re:it goes beyond mere roving wiretaps (4, Insightful)

Black Parrot (19622) | more than 3 years ago | (#36257700)

If Kent State happened today, people would just shrug their shoulders and blame "the terrorists"

No, they'd demand to know if it was going to have any effect on the price of gasoline.

Re:it goes beyond mere roving wiretaps (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36258222)

No protest songs.
No protests.

There were protests. The police broke them up quickly and quietly, sometimes violently.

Re:it goes beyond mere roving wiretaps (3, Interesting)

Black Parrot (19622) | more than 3 years ago | (#36257692)

It allows Big Brother to collect information on you sans any justification whatsoever

The FBI has been doing this for decades. That notorious threat to public safety, Lucille Ball, had an extensive FBI file.

Re:it goes beyond mere roving wiretaps (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36257796)

I can't distill rum in my own home.

Land of the free my ass.

Home of the insipid pants-wetting soccer mom, more cowardly than even the most yellow of the French.

A valuable lesson to be learned: (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36257598)

If you want right wing policies/torture camps to stick around, vote liberal.

Re:A valuable lesson to be learned: (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36257932)

If you want right wing policies/torture camps to stick around, vote liberal.

No kidding! "Hope and Change" my ass!

comparison to Syria (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36257634)

Syria's Emergency Law lasted from 1962 until 2011, and it took a popular revolution to change it. Since Americans are meeker than that and care less about their civil rights, there is no chance these new powers are ever going away, so let's stop pretending they are "temporary".

They are not temporary, and to keep saying "oh, just 4 more years" is just newspeak for "forever".

Democrats, just another side of the same coin... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36257722)

Will ye tossers start voting something like greens or independents or whatever your alternative parties are already? I mean, last non-dem and non-rep president was 1850-1853.
And don't start whining about how it's never going to matter because of them needing more than whatever share. With that attitude, it never will matter. So grow a pair and start filling in some alternative boxes next election.

</rant>

Re:Democrats, just another side of the same coin.. (2)

artor3 (1344997) | more than 3 years ago | (#36258312)

40% of Democrats voted against, compared to only 10% of Republicans. If you want to effect change, vote Democrat, straight ticket, every time. From President down to the local dogcatcher. When the GOP is dead and buried, then we can make a new party to the left of the Dems. If you try to go for third parties right now, then the right-wing fascists will use their short term benefit to pass laws that improve their electoral odds in the future. That is, after all, what they are doing right now. They've eliminated all semblance of campaign finance law, made it more difficult for traditionally liberal groups to vote under the guise of attacking non-existent voter fraud, and are working on dismantling unions -- the one remaining well-funded left-leaning demographic.

If the Republicans regain the White House in the next ten years, while also controlling Congress, you better be prepared to live under a right-wing hegemony for the rest of your life, because their grip will become unbreakable.

E-mail (1)

danhaas (891773) | more than 3 years ago | (#36257730)

Now I'm changing my e-mail provider to something outside of US. Any suggestions?

Re:E-mail (1)

Seumas (6865) | more than 3 years ago | (#36257800)

Are you inside the US? If you're inside the US or your email will transmit through the US, then you're no more protected than having your content hosted outside of the states.

Oh really (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36258008)

Encryption is a beautiful thing. You can use IMAP and SMTP with SSL/TLS. You can encrypt your messages themselves with PGP. You can tunnel the traffic through a VPN or SSH connection.

Re:E-mail (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36257824)

Run your own? AFAIK, the US can tap anything coming in/out of the country. You'll just look more suspicious.

Re:E-mail (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36257828)

safe-mail.net using Tor and login with only SSL enabled
mail.ru, not sure if it is all SSL like safe-mail

Re:E-mail (1)

Seumas (6865) | more than 3 years ago | (#36257960)

A lot of law-enforcement entities in the united states consider the act of concealing contents or communications (encryption, etc) to itself be a suspicious act, which means it would be much easier to acquire a right to search. Not that you need a right to search anymore.

Did anyone vote against this? (2)

Compaqt (1758360) | more than 3 years ago | (#36257778)

Anybody have a list?

Re:Did anyone vote against this? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36257916)

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=112&session=1&vote=00019

Re:Did anyone vote against this? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36258026)

Link: http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=112&session=1&vote=00084

Re:Did anyone vote against this? (3, Informative)

adispenza (1996914) | more than 3 years ago | (#36258058)

Anybody have a list?

Here's the list. You can filter by state with one of the links at the top. Three cheers for both of my state's senators voting nay. http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=112&session=1&vote=00076 [senate.gov]

Re:Did anyone vote against this? (1)

artor3 (1344997) | more than 3 years ago | (#36258142)

The NY Times vote coverage is a pretty handy resource for this sort of thing:

http://politics.nytimes.com/congress/votes/112/senate/1/84 [nytimes.com]

The western US voted no (2)

Noren (605012) | more than 3 years ago | (#36258238)

Notice that the 13 westernmost states votes' total to 12-14 against. What's wrong with the rest of the country?

Don't Forget. (5, Insightful)

Seumas (6865) | more than 3 years ago | (#36257790)

This is the act that allows the president to declare ANYONE an enemy combatant. Even an American Citizen. And disappear them. No representation. No trial. They just vanish, to be indefinitely imprisoned and even tortured. Hell, killed, for all we know. Since nobody knows that the person is being held, there's no limitation. Granted, this has gone wrong pretty much every time it has been used (documented incidents of innocent people being shipped off to gitmo for example) against innocent people a number of times. But hey, it has the word PATRIOT in it!

These assholes despise the citizenship of this country so much that they stuff something called the PATRIOT act with everything that is the opposite of patriotism and that directly undermines the country they claim the act is meant to protect. And we all sit around like fucking sheep, worrying about meaningless bullshit like birth certificates. And worse, all those jackholes who went around doing the "you HAVE to vote!" last year think that they've done their civic duty, because they voted. They chose between the giant douche and the turd sandwich and disavow any responsibility for upholding the status quo that continues to pin us all under its thumb.

Step by Step (5, Insightful)

Renraku (518261) | more than 3 years ago | (#36257794)

Step 1: Be attacked by terrorists.

Step 2: Implement draconian laws designed to 'combat terrorism' citing the terrorist attack and getting everyone scared. Temporary measures, of course.

Step 3: After society is good and locked down, pass extension of those laws.

Step 4: President gets elected that promises to remove these. President instead extends these.

Step 5: Another terrorist attack or foiled plot.

Step 6: Obviously this one law isn't working, so pass another.

Step 7: Progress and repeat until you can't take a shit without someone needing to be there to look up your asshole and make sure you aren't about to shit a bomb into the public toilet at the gas station.

Step 8: Children grew up with these laws, and they're just how things are.

Re:Step by Step (1)

cosm (1072588) | more than 3 years ago | (#36258132)

... and make sure you aren't about to shit a bomb into the public toilet at the gas station.

As a frequent traveler, I can confirm from the public toilets I have seen that this is already a common affair.

Legislative Process (4, Insightful)

iluvcapra (782887) | more than 3 years ago | (#36257846)

Staffer: "How much time do we need to debate the Affordable Care Act?"

Senator: "At least eight months!"

Staffer: "How much time for the federal court appointee?"

Senator: "T is Undefined. We're filibustering him without a vote."

Staffer: "How about to renew the USA PATRIOT act?"

Senator: "Oh, four to six hours."

America's Dead. Get over it. (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36257858)

Despite getting off to such a terrible start with the genocide of the "Native Americans" America was the last great hope for humans voluntarily creating a true democracy. The Constitution is an absolutely wonderful work. Future historians will marvel at it's elegance as the founding fathers saw, and attempted to protect against, what would come after them.

Sadly they underestimated the unstoppable inertia of the mass of the "sheeple".

America failed. It's another dead end.

Ho hum... On with the show...

Reboo, restart, on with the show.

Sweet (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36257866)

Here's more "Hope and Change" for us.

Why even Bother? (1)

hackus (159037) | more than 3 years ago | (#36258134)

Everybody knows it is never going to go away.

Why not just make it permanent and stop pussy footing around.

-Hack

Secret Patriot Act (4, Interesting)

QuietLagoon (813062) | more than 3 years ago | (#36258240)

Further information here [wired.com] .

You think you understand how the Patriot Act allows the government to spy on its citizens. Sen. Ron Wyden says it’s worse than you know. Congress is set to reauthorize three controversial provisions of the surveillance law as early as Thursday. Wyden (D-Oregon) says that powers they grant the government on their face, the government applies a far broader legal interpretation — an interpretation that the government has conveniently classified, so it cannot be publicly assessed or challenged. But one prominent Patriot-watcher asserts that the secret interpretation empowers the government to deploy ”dragnets” for massive amounts of information on private citizens; the government portrays its data-collection efforts much differently.....

Just wait to the Dems are in power! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36258254)

Then this Republican bullshit will stop!

Hope and change we can believe in (1)

Nimey (114278) | more than 3 years ago | (#36258282)

Bah.

Behold, High Treason (1)

lexsird (1208192) | more than 3 years ago | (#36258302)

This act is one of the greatest violations of our Constitution I have ever seen or ever heard of in our history. To allow it was insanity that capitalized on a weak moment in our history. To continue it is nothing less than treason. Why haven't these people been arrested and tried for treason? Where is our Military which is sworn to protect our Constitution from enemies foreign and DOMESTIC? They could snatch up these traitors and hold them while our high courts try them.

Oh yeah, they are out fighting wars that aren't Constitutionally viable. Shall we just call it as it is and render the Constitution dead?

Lone Wolf Terrorist? (2)

MoldySpore (1280634) | more than 3 years ago | (#36258322)

"Other provisions allow authorities to obtain business and library records, and to target so-called “lone wolf” suspects who aren’t affiliated with any terrorist group."

a.k.a. Anyone. Say something negative about the government? You're a lone-wolf terrorist.

Sure, we aren't there yet. But doesn't that seem like where this is headed? That part scares the crap outta me. I had no idea that was in there.

Comment from Canada (1)

Lieutenant_Dan (583843) | more than 3 years ago | (#36258324)

Privacy legislation in parts of Canada is such that because of the PATRIOT Act we cannot store or process certain type of data in the States. There are workarounds, but the hassle of appeasing privacy officers and the various boards just eliminates the US as a viable option. We now look more to the EU now ...

Just so know, since it is clear that the US is losing business because of this.

Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...