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Would come as a suprise... (5, Funny)

houstonbofh (602064) | more than 3 years ago | (#36262514)

Go to ATM... Spit out money... "Yep, the dollar ain't what it used to be..."

Re:Would come as a suprise... (1, Offtopic)

Tripp-phpBB (1912354) | more than 3 years ago | (#36262576)

Please mod up

Re:Would come as a suprise... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36262964)

Yes please because "slashdot ain't what it used to be...."

Re:Would come as a suprise... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36263060)

Please mod up.

Photocopied? (1)

MoonBuggy (611105) | more than 3 years ago | (#36262532)

If he'd been a little smarter, it sounds like it could've been a good way to get half-decent counterfeits out into they system without them being noticed. If the guy was really throwing photocopies in there, though, I don't know what he was expecting to happen.

Re:Photocopied? (5, Interesting)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 3 years ago | (#36262812)

To be fair, he was a Diebold employee. He probably assumed that there was no fraud sufficiently blatant to be punished for.

More realistically, he was probably an opportunist, possibly with a newfound need for fast cash, and good counterfeit currency, while certainly not impossible to make or obtain, is not something you can just get ahold of in a moment. Were a sophisticated counterfeiting operation looking for a dispersal method, an ATM service dude might be a useful 'hire'. A random ATM service dude probably doesn't know how to just look up the local counterfeiters...

Re:Photocopied? (5, Informative)

Joce640k (829181) | more than 3 years ago | (#36263080)

No, if he was smarter he would have grabbed a couple of million then gone to the Bahamas.

As a police friend of mine says, if you're going to commit a crime, do it just once and make it worthwhile. The people who get caught are the ones who have to keep going back to do it again.

Re:Photocopied? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36263268)

Well, if any of you had RTFA, you'd see that he did essentially do it once --- he hit up all six ATMs one after another 10 months ago. He got away with it for nearly a year. That's not bad. It's not like he's been repeatedly doing that since then.

Re:Photocopied? (2)

petermgreen (876956) | more than 3 years ago | (#36263588)

Right, the thing is afaict there are three stages to "getting caught"

1: the police decide it was probablly a given person
2: the police manage to track the person down and arrest them
3: the court confirms the polices determination in 1

If the criminal can break the chain at any of these stages then they don't "get caught"

This criminal spectacually failed to break the chain at stage 1 (he used his work ID). He kept it stopped at stage 2 for a while but ultimately failed (the article doesn't say exactly how but I would guess that the only driving license he had available at the traffic stop was one tied to his old identity) and it seems unlikely he will break the chain at stage 3 either.

Re:Photocopied? (3, Informative)

ATestR (1060586) | more than 3 years ago | (#36263448)

The ATM machines don't hold that much. I know... I did some pick-up work as an ATM messenger (read: guy who stuff's money in and takes deposits out) for a while after the dot.Bomb. Typical bank ATM might hold $200K in $20's if it was full. The little ATMs that you find in a Walmart or 7-11 are maxed out at $60K.

what's the difference? (1, Troll)

roman_mir (125474) | more than 3 years ago | (#36262554)

the only difference between the paper he was taking out and paper he was putting in is that one was counterfeit by a crook, and the other was a bad duplicate of that counterfeit fiat.

Re:what's the difference? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36262622)

One of them can be legally used to pay your taxes and bank debts.

Re:what's the difference? (-1)

roman_mir (125474) | more than 3 years ago | (#36262716)

and if you don't pay taxes and don't have bank debts? Also banks accept real money.

besides, if you hold real money, then you can always draw a little bit of that to buy the fake garbage to pay the taxes with, however if you are really smart, you move somewhere that doesn't tax your work and doesn't crash the value of your currency into oblivion. In reality the only currency they cannot destroy is real money, they know it, so they'll try and do exchange controls again, will enact laws against owning real money, etc.etc. But you can't stop people from trying to avoid holding the garbage that's being devalued every second of the day.

Re:what's the difference? (1)

RazzleFrog (537054) | more than 3 years ago | (#36262802)

Isn't it a little late to be complaining about this? It's 40 years later and Nixon's dead.

Re:what's the difference? (2)

roman_mir (125474) | more than 3 years ago | (#36262836)

There is such thing as Gresham's law, and gov't decree only makes the matters worse due to capital flight. You can outlaw real money, but you can't make your fake money have any value artificially.

Re:what's the difference? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36262884)

all aboard the crazy train.

Re:what's the difference? (1)

RazzleFrog (537054) | more than 3 years ago | (#36262912)

Let me rephrase my question then. Since there are no countries in the world still using "real money" and the US was actually one of the last to switch from gold-backed currency what exactly do you expect to happen? Do you really see the entire world switching back to a gold standard? Do you really plan on going to the store and paying in gold coins that are weighed at the register?

Re:what's the difference? (1)

roman_mir (125474) | more than 3 years ago | (#36262980)

No, I don't need to pay gold at the register, it's not needed at all. However bank accounts and credit lines, etc., will be backed with gold again.

Is the world going to switch to the gold standard? What do you think it's doing all this time, the decade that is seeing gold reserves being grown by individuals and national banks?

BTW., the transition will be sudden and abrupt. Nobody wants "an orderly decline" - once you realize that the value is gone, and it's all going down and not up in real terms, why would you wait for your money to decline in value orderly?

Yes you will (2)

stabiesoft (733417) | more than 3 years ago | (#36263248)

Your describing a situation where trust is lost. If trust is lost, how does the merchant know you really have gold in the vault? For that matter, even if you bring gold to the merchant, how does the merchant quickly test to ensure the gold is 100% pure and has not been cut with some other metal, or that your gold is not just gold plate? The modern world requires trust. A breakdown of which will result in anarchy. Food/water/guns will be much more valuable than gold.

Re:Yes you will (1)

cforciea (1926392) | more than 3 years ago | (#36263410)

No! Gold has magical powers given to it by the great fairies! Nothing bad can ever happen to our currency if it is backed by the (unbacked by any reality based value) gold standard! Because... uhm... I can impress girls and uhhhh... have limited industrial use for the shiny metal! Surely people will want my heavy shiny bricks when civilization collapses because somehow they will magically help people acquire food!

Re:Yes you will (1)

roman_mir (125474) | more than 3 years ago | (#36263502)

You are mixing up ideas.

Food and guns are products - wealth. Gold is money.

Gold is easily tested to be either pure or it's in coins, which are recognized and also can be tested easily (that's where the term 'acid test' comes from). [lacywest.com] Large bars are normally tested with ultrasound, as density of gold is precisely known, and so are densities of other metals, it's what they do in banks.

However this is not needed if you simply hold an account in a bank, that would have your account backed with gold, you'd have a credit card or bank card from there, that's all. Of-course banks used to issue bank notes - actual gold promises for different amounts.

As to modern world requiring trust - you are right, and fiat cannot be trusted not because it's just paper, but because the printing presses are in the hands of politicians.

Re:what's the difference? (1)

Roblimo (357) | more than 3 years ago | (#36263514)

Free silver, 16 to 1!!!

And no, you will NOT crucify mankind upon a cross of gold.

Now please stand for Our National Anthem, as performed by the Claytonsburg Cornet Band.

Re:what's the difference? (3, Insightful)

alen (225700) | more than 3 years ago | (#36263440)

and what value does shiny yellow metal have besides the ability to get you laid if you use real money to buy it for hot women?

Re:what's the difference? (2)

roman_mir (125474) | more than 3 years ago | (#36263578)

why, is getting laid by hot women not good enough for you? Anyway, here is something to start with [youtube.com] .

Women are not as dumb as some would believe - they don't take fake money, they require the real deal, and screw the 'legal tender', which has to be accepted just because politicians say so.

Re:what's the difference? (1)

fbjon (692006) | more than 3 years ago | (#36262866)

There's no such thing as real money.

Re:what's the difference? (1)

roman_mir (125474) | more than 3 years ago | (#36262924)

Sure there is.

Money is a store of value, unit of account and medium of exchange.

Fiat is the last thing that can do any of that, whenever it rises, it eventually falls. The thing holds value relative to other commodities (barring changes in production output) is gold.

Re:what's the difference? (2)

LordLimecat (1103839) | more than 3 years ago | (#36262990)

Gold's value is also arbitrary, just a little more stable. It has value only because people have historically desired gold; if all of a sudden people were to decide gold looked ugly, I think you would start to see that it doesnt really have "intrinsic value" other than its use in semiconductors and fillings.

Re:what's the difference? (1, Interesting)

roman_mir (125474) | more than 3 years ago | (#36263054)

Gold has actual value in our physical world, learn why. [youtube.com]

As to the value of it being 'arbitrary' - however the relative value is decided, it's stable.

2003: 1 ounce of gold was USD350, one pound of cotton was USD50.
2011: 1 ounce of gold over USD1500, one pound of cotton over USD200.

Notice anything?

Re:what's the difference? (1)

maxwell demon (590494) | more than 3 years ago | (#36263548)

Yes: Instead of buying gold, you could as well buy cotton. Which has the additional advantage that it seems less attractive to thieves. ;-)

Re:what's the difference? (1)

CarsonChittom (2025388) | more than 3 years ago | (#36263594)

I listened to that clip, since you linked to it. Your summary is inaccurate and misleading. In reality, the clip talks about why gold has been used as money, and essentially gives three reasons: (1) it's rare, but not too rare, (2) civilizations before the modern era could actually find it, and (3) it has a fairly low melting point, so civilizations before the modern era could actually work it into coins. All perfectly true, and beside the point.

Gold has value because people want it, just like anything else that has value. The level of people wanting it may be more or less stable, but that doesn't change the fact that it has no "intrinsic" value.

Re:what's the difference? (1)

russotto (537200) | more than 3 years ago | (#36263184)

Fiat is the last thing that can do any of that, whenever it rises, it eventually falls. The thing holds value relative to other commodities (barring changes in production output) is gold.

Gold is a somewhat uncommon soft metal. It has several properties which make it useful as money, but there's nothing about it that makes it "real money". As with all other commodities, its price has gone up and down relative to other commodities. Viewed as a useful metal, its price is likely inflated precisely because people feel it is somehow real money.

Fiat money from the Federal Reserve is backed up by the full faith and credit of the US government. Said flowery phrase basically meaning "naked force".

Re:what's the difference? (1)

Attila Dimedici (1036002) | more than 3 years ago | (#36262874)

What "real money" are you talking about?
And where is this fantasy land you are talking about that doesn't tax your work and/or crash the value of the currency?

Re:what's the difference? (1)

roman_mir (125474) | more than 3 years ago | (#36262894)

1. Wealth is production capacity, money is gold.
2. There are enough countries in the world now, that are doing the right thing, lowering taxes, becoming more business friendly. USA is not one of them.

Re:what's the difference? (1)

LordLimecat (1103839) | more than 3 years ago | (#36263014)

Why is wealth gold? What property does gold possess, in and of itself, that makes it valuable?

Put another way-- WW4 has just happened, all the worlds economies have crashed, the US is in a state of anarchy, and everyone has to fight to survive. Whats more valuable now, a hunk of gold, or a rifle? How bout gold, or a loaf of bread?

Looks like you might as well declare that "french loaves are real money"; its just as arbitrary, and makes a good deal more sense.

Re:what's the difference? (0)

roman_mir (125474) | more than 3 years ago | (#36263154)

Why is wealth gold?

- indeed.

I never said that, so I am now asking you right back: why is wealth gold?

Now, what I said was that production capacity is wealth and gold is money. To your question about properties of gold in itself, there is a good primer on that right here, will take just over 4 minutes [youtube.com] (there is a longer version, I don't have the link).

As to things being measured in gold after some cataclysmic event: I certainly would prefer gold to ANY currency at that point. History proves me correct, as during any war you could get things for gold, but not for currencies, which immediately became irrelevant.

Now, I said WEALTH is production capacity, so that is what people actually need, and if rifles and bread are what people need, then that's the real wealth. However gold is actual money - store of value, unit of account, means of trade. It's unchangeable, easy to test, easy to work with, easy to reclaim, rare enough, but not too rare, easily recognizable, does not have major industrial use, etc. It's pretty much made to be used money unlike anything else (there are other possibilities, but they have more drawbacks than gold in various ways.)

Last thing: French loaves are real wealth and gold is real money.

If you need a loaf of bread and there is no bread in vicinity at all, then you can't buy it with any money, including gold, but if there is a way to get some of that bread in exchange for something and you have gold, you stand a much better chance of getting that bread, than anybody with fiat in their pocket.

Re:what's the difference? (1)

Attila Dimedici (1036002) | more than 3 years ago | (#36263138)

How much gold does it take to buy a loaf of bread? For that matter, where can you buy a loaf of bread with gold? And how do you measure out that small an amount of gold?

Re:what's the difference? (1)

roman_mir (125474) | more than 3 years ago | (#36263216)

How much gold does it take to buy a loaf of bread?

- depends where you are, but somewhere around 1/1500 to 1/350 of a troy ounce per loaf is a good price range depending on where you live, I suppose.

For that matter, where can you buy a loaf of bread with gold?

- anywhere they take a credit card of a bank card?

And how do you measure out that small an amount of gold?

- you don't. You transfer gold credits.

Banks used to issue actual notes - pieces of paper fully backed by an amount of gold written on them. That's how you use gold for trade without carrying the heavy stuff around.

Re:what's the difference? (1)

Attila Dimedici (1036002) | more than 3 years ago | (#36263318)

If I can't pay my grocery bill directly with gold, it isn't money. For that matter, I would like you to list a place where you are paying in "gold credits", not the country currency, when you use a bank card that draws against your gold account.

Re:what's the difference? (1)

Hognoxious (631665) | more than 3 years ago | (#36263316)

Wealth isn't production capacity, wealth is assets. They don't even have the same units; the former is an amount (measured in money), the latter is an amount per unit time, e.g his net worth is X, he earns Y per month.

If wealth is length, production capacity is velocity, and money is a ruler.

Re:what's the difference? (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36263056)

I really shouldn't respond, but I can't resist. By 'real money' do you mean gold? Gold is only good for trade since we all agree that it is worth something. This is the same reason that money printed by governments is worth something: we all agree that it is. Gold is in the middle of a huge bubble right now. If it were traded like a normal commodity it would be worth way less. Once people stop being so paranoid it is going to crash hard. Also, since it is constantly being mined, it too is constantly getting devalued.

Re:what's the difference? (0)

roman_mir (125474) | more than 3 years ago | (#36263338)

Gold is only good for trade since we all agree that it is worth something.

- no, it has actual intrinsic properties that allow people to accept gold as unit of account/means of trade/store of value. [youtube.com]

This is the same reason that money printed by governments is worth something: we all agree that it is.

- this is true. Now, those of us who think that gov't printed fiat is worth nothing, move to the real money, that's all there is to it. I don't see fiat as worth anything. It certainly is worth less and less every day even for those who disagree with me, otherwise things wouldn't be constantly rising in price, all because the fiat is printed but nothing backs it up - neither production nor gold.

Gold is in the middle of a huge bubble right now.

- I've been hearing that for a decade. However there is a huge bubble, it's not in gold, it's in US government bonds (and bonds of other countries as well, but mostly US.)

If it were traded like a normal commodity it would be worth way less.

- it's a monetary metal, not a 'normal commodity' like oil or pork bellies.

Once people stop being so paranoid it is going to crash hard.

- no, once gold ounce gets to 1:1 ratio with Dow, then it would mean Dow is cheap enough to buy, but in fiat currencies, that are being printed there is no reason for it to 'crash hard'.

Also, since it is constantly being mined, it too is constantly getting devalued.

- it's being mined, not printed. They produce very little of it on grand schema of things. This cannot be said about fiat.

pretty close to my thoughts (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36262714)

"His method was almost brilliant in its sheer stupidity: He pocketed the cash, and replaced it in the machines with 'counterfeit or photocopied $20 bills.'"

and this is different than banks selling MBS(s)/CDO(s) and/or ING selling CDS(s) how?

the only "stupidity" I see is that he forgot to make his "campaign contributions"...

Re:what's the difference? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36263188)

the only difference between the paper he was taking out and paper he was putting in is that one was counterfeit by a crook, and the other was a bad duplicate of that counterfeit fiat.

*sigh* Look, to short-circuit your discussion to its predictable conclusion, it doesn't matter how much you want to make your l33t processing cluster into spendable currency because you don't have any marketable skills, we're still not going to take BitCoin seriously. Get over yourself and get a job.

Re:what's the difference? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36263282)

the only difference between the paper he was taking out and paper he was putting in is that one was printed by a crook, and the other was a bad duplicate of that.

Joke would be more apt and just as funny without the the hyperbolet

Re:what's the difference? (1)

Ben4jammin (1233084) | more than 3 years ago | (#36263320)

One was sanctioned by the Federal Reserve, the other was not.

And much like the mafia, the Federal Reserve does not take it lightly if you invade their territory.

The sad thing is that you were modded troll...apparently by someone that isn't interested in contemplating why a country that has a printing press and a sovereign right to print money ends up trillions in debt.

Re:what's the difference? (1)

geekoid (135745) | more than 3 years ago | (#36263394)

Your implied reason for the debt is incorrect.

Re:what's the difference? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36263560)

+1 Informative ... Wish I had mod points!

How to rob a bank (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36262556)

1. Get a job as someone handling money
2. Replace money with fake money
3. Go to Aruba
4.????
5. Never rob a bank

Seems like he forgot to follow step 3

Re:How to rob a bank (4, Insightful)

ObsessiveMathsFreak (773371) | more than 3 years ago | (#36262852)

Wrong

1. Join Bank Management
2. Pay yourself a bonus every time the Bank gives a loan
3. Loan out all the banks money, and when that runs out, borrow more from other banks and lend that money out in turn.
4. PROFIT! (Beyond your wildest dreams)
5. When the bank goes bust, ride away into the sunset with a handsome golden parachute.

When he get's out Diebold can put in the voteing (0)

Joe The Dragon (967727) | more than 3 years ago | (#36262572)

When he get's out Diebold can put him to work in the voteing machines side of things.

But HOW CAN a ATM tech not know there that HE WAS BEING videotaped by the system he was working on.

Well we can have some fun at the tent city.

Re:When he get's out Diebold can put in the votein (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36262682)

This is the first time I have seen someone with a username who is automatically at -1.

What heinous crimes did you do? Urinate in CowboyNeal's plants/pants?

Wizard's First Rule (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36262590)

People are stupid. This is news?

Why is this on Slashdot? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36262598)

This is on slashdot, why? What is technical or geeky about this?

Re:Why is this on Slashdot? (2)

rilles (1153657) | more than 3 years ago | (#36262662)

He pushed a button on a photocopy machine. The machine is a technical wonder - you put one paper in and a copy of it appears after you push a button - like magic.

Re:Why is this on Slashdot? (1)

RazzleFrog (537054) | more than 3 years ago | (#36262692)

I had the same reaction. I don't get the technical connection here. If he had used photoshop or something to make the copies more realistic maybe I could see it but this is just generic police blotter fodder.

Re:Why is this on Slashdot? (2)

Spectre (1685) | more than 3 years ago | (#36262722)

It gives us geeks somebody to point at and say "duh, stupid!"

We get to feel all superior, in this case, with real justification.

Re:Why is this on Slashdot? (1)

jemtallon (1125407) | more than 3 years ago | (#36262846)

ATM has machine in it's name? Kinda like how we get stories about Hasselhoff because he was in Knight Rider. Wait... that doesn't sound right

held in lieu of bail? (5, Funny)

Spectre (1685) | more than 3 years ago | (#36262614)

Geez, he has $200,000 in cash and can't make bail? He should have asked the arresting officer to stop by an ATM on his way to jail ...

Re:held in lieu of bail? (1)

kelemvor4 (1980226) | more than 3 years ago | (#36262870)

$25,000 bail. He should be having one hell of a party with $175,000 cash before the trial.

I'm curious... (0, Offtopic)

steelfood (895457) | more than 3 years ago | (#36262680)

...how this even remotely constitutes as "news for nerds." I'd have expected to see this in Fark or Digg, but not Slashdot.

Really guys? Is it that slow a news day?

Re:I'm curious... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36263336)

...how this even remotely constitutes as "news for nerds." I'd have expected to see this in Fark or Digg, but not Slashdot.

Really guys? Is it that slow a news day?

If you expect to see this on Digg then why would you be surprised to see it again on /. a day later?

Photocopied? (2)

hackertourist (2202674) | more than 3 years ago | (#36262700)

Aren't color photocopiers supposed to give an error message when you try to copy a banknote?

Re:Photocopied? (1, Informative)

Shrike82 (1471633) | more than 3 years ago | (#36262844)

Yes, they look for the EURion constellation [wikipedia.org] and refuse to copy anything with it in. Modern scanners also block attempts to reproduce anything with the pattern. Obviously there are ways round this, but it probably puts off casual attempts at counterfeiting by morons and curious kids.

Re:Photocopied? (1)

Nighttime (231023) | more than 3 years ago | (#36263030)

For shits and giggles, I tried photocopying a £20 note on our new colour copier in the office. I ended up with an A4 sheet of black toner.

Re:Photocopied? (1)

Shrike82 (1471633) | more than 3 years ago | (#36263150)

Interesting that it would produce a black page rather than simply do nothing, or print an error message. Of course your main concern should be the copier phoning a special hotline informing your local constabulary of your actions. You can expect the boys in blue, or men with excessive amounts of firearms if you're American, to be knocking on your door any minute.

Re:Photocopied? (1)

TheSpoom (715771) | more than 3 years ago | (#36263358)

I wouldn't try that very often; some machines will seize up and refuse to operate further when they find a banknote until a service person from the company comes to reset it, and then you'll have some 'splainin to do.

Re:Photocopied? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36262872)

Yes, they should do.

My photo editing software directs me to this site, for information, when I try to open a scan I have of a £10 note: http://www.rulesforuse.org/pub/index.php?lang=en

Re:Photocopied? (2)

PPH (736903) | more than 3 years ago | (#36263482)

This guy was in Phoenix. US banknotes. Crappy security features compared to other nations currencies.

Diebold (2)

Oh Gawwd Peak Oil (1000227) | more than 3 years ago | (#36262724)

According to TFA, this guy worked for Diebold.

He shouldn't have fled. After what he did they probably would have promoted him to a high executive position.

Love that name (2)

6Yankee (597075) | more than 3 years ago | (#36262770)

An ATM guy called Kioskli. Classic.

diebold dollars (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36262774)

I doubt that the fake money was simply counterfeit. Most ATM's nowadays have censors that detect the bills thickness. It was most likely something like diebold dollars.

Re:diebold dollars (2)

_0xd0ad (1974778) | more than 3 years ago | (#36262914)

He'd have access to the money box inside the machine, thus bypassing the sensors. Open it up to count the money, slip a few $20s out and replace them with a few fakes; as long as the money count comes out right when the next serviceman comes to check the ATM, nobody would know the difference... and if they eventually found the fakes it'd just look like some bank customer(s) had passed the fake $20s to the machine.

However, if the machine should have been able to detect the forgeries, that might be one thing that led them to suspect a repairman was behind it - bank customers shouldn't be able to feed the machine fake $20s.

If he was so stupid.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36262794)

How did he get away with it until he'd made $200,000 worth of counterfeit notes. That is a hell of a lot of $20 notes.

Most criminals get greedy, rather than stupid.

[libertarian]PS: All money is equally arbitrary.[/libertarian]

Re:If he was so stupid.. (1)

Spectre (1685) | more than 3 years ago | (#36262878)

Apparently he hit at least 7 ATMs on a US holiday (July 4th, senior staff not monitoring security cameras, in all likelihood).
That would be about $30,000 per machine ...

What's with all the 'money' articles? (1)

Colin Smith (2679) | more than 3 years ago | (#36262808)

Bitcoin, faked cash in ATMs etc?

 

Who else is doing this? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36262838)

Looks like he just messed up that system for all the other hardworking counterfeiting ATM repairmen. Before he got caught, nobody was looking for this kind of fraud. (:-)

I knew it!! (2)

bobdawonderweasel (941828) | more than 3 years ago | (#36262858)

My Dad always told me there was a little man in the ATM printing the money it spit out!

Why is the bail so low? (1)

damn_registrars (1103043) | more than 3 years ago | (#36262890)

He's accused of stealing $200k, but his bail was put at only $25k? Which Wall Street investment group manager is he related t?

Re:Why is the bail so low? (2)

geekoid (135745) | more than 3 years ago | (#36263422)

A) It's just bail. Bail has to do with risk of fleeing not punishment for a crime.
B) He probably pissed the money away as fast as he got it
C) 175K is't really enough money to go into hiding for any sizable period of time.

You know what really sucks? (2, Insightful)

lavagolemking (1352431) | more than 3 years ago | (#36262898)

The people who withdrew money from this ATM will probably never get their money back, since customers are always fully liable for ATM transactions. The banks will just write it off as a loss, which comes right out of their customers checking accounts. Worse, if the people don't notice they'll even be held responsible for trying to pass of counterfeit bills they thought were real.

You know what /really/ sucks? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36262942)

Your mom.

Re:You know what really sucks? (1)

chemicaldave (1776600) | more than 3 years ago | (#36263134)

The bank would probably lose more money from pissed off customers. $200,000 is a drop in the bucket to them.

Re:You know what really sucks? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36263414)

Yea, because banks go out of their way not to piss of their customers. Keep smokin' that free market crack.

Re:You know what really sucks? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36263176)

The banks will just write it off as a loss, which comes right out of their customers checking accounts.

What have you been smoking lately? Let's hope you are not a banker.

Re:You know what really sucks? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36263288)

I thought it was a crime to _knowingly_ use counterfeit bills.

Re:You know what really sucks? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36263426)

How do you prove you didn't know?

Re:You know what really sucks? (3, Informative)

TheSpoom (715771) | more than 3 years ago | (#36263310)

You're crazy. We've reversed transactions at ATMs with our bank [pnc.com] where the ATM didn't spit out the money but marked it as a successful transaction; they gave us a temporary credit and a month later sent us a letter saying their investigation found that our report was accurate and that the credit was now permanent. With something like this, I'd imagine the investigation would be pretty easy; just track which machines the guy refilled.

C'mon. There's cynical and then there's not doing the research.

Seriously unsurprising (4, Informative)

erroneus (253617) | more than 3 years ago | (#36262930)

Some years ago, I worked for a company (two companies actually) centered around the ATM vending machine service. While there, I learned how trivial it actually is to rob ATMs. While I am certain the technologies and security protocols involved have evolved beyond my previous knowledge of the time, most ATMs were a small terminal with a cash dispenser and connected to "the network" by a simple dialup modem which operated over the public POTS network. By using a device called a "skuch" box which simulated POTS networking, modems and other such things such as a laptop with transaction processing software simulating the ATM authorization network, a person could connect to a local ATM terminal, run simulated transactions and dispense real cash in massive amounts without raising a great deal of suspicion from most shops and stores which host ATMs.

As I said, my knowledge is "OLD." I am pretty sure the are now using other communications technologies such as wireless networks and such, but given that it has been shown how trivial taking over or creating your own local GSM network actually, is, adapting the previously described methods to current technologies would not only be easier, but could be done wirelessly from a "service van" close by. (I observe that many businesses still authorize credit card transactions over POTS so it seems to me that ATM debit transactions are still done over POTS as well, so many the old methods are still valid in some places.)

But you get the idea -- ATMs are cash dispensers controlled by highly vulnerable computers operating over highly vulnerable networks.

Re:Seriously unsurprising (1)

niado (1650369) | more than 3 years ago | (#36263048)

John Connor - the last best hope of mankind - performed this feat in Terminator 2. It was probably a little simplified for the sake of theatrics though.

Re:Seriously unsurprising (1)

maxume (22995) | more than 3 years ago | (#36263050)

Yeah, the whole U.S. banking system is built around hoping nothing goes wrong and then working to leave someone else holding the bag when it does.

Credit card fraud gets charged back to merchants, banks open up lines of credit with minimal documentation and then send an innocent third party a collection notice, it's awesome.

Re:Seriously unsurprising (1)

jandrese (485) | more than 3 years ago | (#36263228)

I'd like to think that the connection between the ATM and whatever it talks to is encrypted with something straightforward and effective like an SSL connection with preshared keys to prevent a trivial attack like you describe above, but I've been shocked and dismayed at security in the financial world too many times to be completely surprised if this is not the case. This is the industry that thinks the signature on the back of a credit card is some sort of security measure.

Re:Seriously unsurprising (2)

erroneus (253617) | more than 3 years ago | (#36263380)

You would like to think that, but no. Very often, transaction processing goes through several networks and agents along the way. And each of them take a portion of the [often ridiculous] fee you get charged for every transaction. Some segments of the processing network get as little as 5 cents per transaction while others collect a quarter. But if you imagine that it is one ATM programmed to talk to one end point, you would be sadly mistaken. It's far more complex than that.

Re:Seriously unsurprising (1)

TheSpoom (715771) | more than 3 years ago | (#36263406)

You'd think they'd be using public key encryption to verify both the machine and the ATM network (which would mean, if done right, it wouldn't matter what transport you used).

Diebold (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36263016)

And yet Diebold, the company involved, gets away with stealing elections on a regular basis.

Told you, never trust ATM (1)

140Mandak262Jamuna (970587) | more than 3 years ago | (#36263028)

Say what you want about Asynchronous Transfer Protocol, it ain't gonna do the job of regular Ethernet. Someone along the way is going to nab all the good packets and replace them with fake packets. There is no protection against the man-in-the-middle for ATM.

Fractions (4, Funny)

travdaddy (527149) | more than 3 years ago | (#36263032)

If he wanted to steal from the bank, here's a better, technical solution:

Every time there's a bank transaction where interest is computed, you know, thousands a day? The computer ends up with these fractions of a cent, which it usually rounds off. Just take those little remainders and put them into an account.

There were a couple movies where this was done and it worked brilliantly.

Re:Fractions (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36263112)

Superman 3, I think, with Richard Pryor...except the big boss was stealing/embezzling those fractions before Richard got the idea and started routing them into his payroll account.

Brilliant ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36263044)

Really,, how is using your own work tied ATM key while on camera consider brilliant ?

Someone managed to do this in the UK (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36263058)

Was a few years ago now but I remember hearing a story that he'd used just enough real money at the top of the machine before filling the rest with paper and that gave him time to get away.

I may have been wrong (3, Interesting)

Bob the Super Hamste (1152367) | more than 3 years ago | (#36263618)

This makes me wonder if maybe some of the many counterfeiters I have seen were telling the truth. Years ago when I worked at a gas station we would get people trying to pass counterfeit bill a few times a month. I noticed that people passing them fell into one of 3 categories:
  • 1. Legitimately didn't know they had a counterfeit bill
  • 2. Claimed they got the bill from the casino
  • 3. Claimed they got the bill from the bank/ATM

Those in category 1 would usually be annoyed that they had funny money but would be cooperative. The other 2 categories no so much. Very often these people would become belligerent and when informed that I would be bringing in the police would get threatening. The worst case was one individual who had tried to pass a counterfeit $100 bill that he had run off on his home ink jet printer. The colors were all wrong, incorrect weight, incorrect texture, was cut wrong (used scissors), missing the water mark, missing security strip, and also failed the counterfeit detector pen.He insisted that the bill was real as he had just gotten it from the ATM (our ATM only Dispensed $20s) and that he had a wallet full of them now, yes he really did show me a pile of counterfeit $100s. When informed that I was calling the cops he threatened me stormed off. The nice thing was that the Eagan police station was only a couple of blocks down the road. So while I was calling the police he was stuck at the light waiting to turn right heading towards the police station. I was able to give the police a complete description of the person, car description, and license plate number. The picked him up about half way between the gas station and police station.

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