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Daleks To Be Given 'A Rest' From Dr. Who

timothy posted more than 3 years ago | from the doesn't-the-resting-go-the-other-direction? dept.

Sci-Fi 332

donberryman writes "Steven Moffat told the BBC 'There's a problem with the Daleks. They are the most famous of the Doctor's adversaries and the most frequent, which means they are the most reliably defeatable enemies in the universe.'" And so, 400+ encounters later, both the Doctor and the daleks will take a break from each other.

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I guess (1)

c0mpliant (1516433) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306256)

someone finally listened to the Daleks... EXTERMINATE!

Too bad for the Daleks they exterminated them

Well, as far as the Daleks are concerned... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36306862)

...(sunglasses) I'd say they've finally taken the plunge.

(I wear sunglasses now. Sunglasses are cool.)

.

Re:I guess (3, Interesting)

Dogtanian (588974) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306866)

This strikes me as a somewhat sensible decision.

I mean, I like the Daleks and all that, but they seemed to pop up an awful lot in the new Who series (since 2005) to the point where you got the impression that people forgot Who wasn't all about them. They appeared fairly regularly in the "classic" series, but not quite as frequently as peoples' memories would lead them to believe.

Then again, I realised a while back that my earliest (and *very* faint) memories of Doctor Who at a very young age are of watching it mainly to see the Daleks- not the Doctor!- and being disappointed when they weren't on. And it's easy as an adult to forget that. But I still think that they've made the right decision- just easing off the Daleks a bit for a while. If kids want to see them, the "old" "new" episodes are still repeated countless times on BBC3 anyway!

WHO'S ON FIRST ?? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36306258)

What's his name.

I don't know !!

Re:WHO'S ON FIRST ?? (1, Funny)

martin-boundary (547041) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306394)

Of course you don't know! There's a simple explanation for that. The timey wimey folds of spacetime have done a wibbly wobbley again, that's why!

Re:WHO'S ON FIRST ?? (1, Funny)

Sulphur (1548251) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306654)

Of course you don't know! There's a simple explanation for that. The timey wimey folds of spacetime have done a wibbly wobbley again, that's why!

Of course you don't know! There's a simple explanation for that. The timey wimey folds of spacetime have done a wibbly wobbley again, that's Who!

FTFY

--

Can you spare bitcoin for Davros?

Re:WHO'S ON FIRST ?? (1)

martin-boundary (547041) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306892)

MOD PARENT UP.

He's an older, wiser regeneration of me!

spolier:The sonic screwdriver seems to be gone too (1)

dbIII (701233) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306264)

At the start of Tom Baker's time the sonic screwdriver couldn't even reliably get the Doctor through a locked door, but now it is a magic wand that can do just about anything. Good to see it got written out of the plot recently.

Re:spolier:The sonic screwdriver seems to be gone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36306300)

The sonic screw driver is in the image in the article. It doesn't work on doors, as long as they are made out of wood (it does not work on wood).

Re:spolier:The sonic screwdriver seems to be gone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36306448)

How many locks have you seen made of wood?

Re:spolier:The sonic screwdriver seems to be gone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36306646)

puzzle boxen?

Re:spolier:The sonic screwdriver seems to be gone (1)

agentgonzo (1026204) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306512)

Not true. A recent episode (it was either the living flesh one or the pirate one) had the Doctor unlocking locked door by sliding back the bolt on a wooden door with the sonic screwdriver.

Re:spolier:The sonic screwdriver seems to be gone (3, Informative)

coolmadsi (823103) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306364)

At the start of Tom Baker's time the sonic screwdriver couldn't even reliably get the Doctor through a locked door, but now it is a magic wand that can do just about anything. Good to see it got written out of the plot recently.

It's been destroyed a couple of times since the reboot, and another one has been made, usually popping out the TARDIS console. He used it in the last scene of the last episode that was aired (unless you're talking about future episodes...). It is a fairly simple to use plot device though (need to move plot forward = use screwdriver to open door, otherwise, need to keep characters where they are = door is deadlocked)

Re:spolier:The sonic screwdriver seems to be gone (1)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306398)

They solved the problem with the sonic screwdriver a few years ago by inventing the deadlock seal - anything that is deadlock sealed can't be opened by the magic wand. I'm not sure what you mean about it being written out of the plot though. In the last episode, the Doctor left it behind, but he's done that several times before and made a new one...

Re:spolier:The sonic screwdriver seems to be gone (3, Insightful)

rufty_tufty (888596) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306452)

i think a lot of this comes down to the quality of the writers not the tools at the disposal of the characters. A bad/mediocre writer will wave the magic wand to get past the problem the writer has put the character in. To create tension they'll have the magic wand not work. This is fine and an audience will put up with this provided the rest of the story is enough to keep them interested.
A good writer won't need a sonic screwdriver or a deadlock seal, the traps and problems will be those of circumstance, character traits and morals. But like any tool they can be overused too, there's only so many times the lock of the doctor being a pacifist being opened by a companion sacrifice can be used; but we're back to the good vs bad writer stage again...
So I've no problems with the Daleks being used a lot, used in every episode even as long as they are used well. That does seem to worry me about the new Dr Who that they're not being used because they have a good story but used like the sonic to up the tension and that just doesn't work long term.

Re:spolier:The sonic screwdriver seems to be gone (1)

rufty_tufty (888596) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306458)

Hate to reply to myself but:
I meant to say that the daleks being used like the sonic as a writing tool, only instead of being used to let him through any door, to solve any problem, to magic the badness away being used to up the tension at any moment. No need to have a good idea just add Dalek for instant tension. Sorry, overused, doesn't work, come back when you have a good story.

Re:spolier:The sonic screwdriver seems to be gone (4, Insightful)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306548)

This was a big problem with the Russell T Davies episodes. He used spectacle as a substitute for plot. Huge fleets of Daleks or Cybermen as a substitute for character interaction. In contrast, the best episodes have been things like Blink, that have kept the atmosphere with relatively little emphasis on special effects.

The original problem with the sonic screwdriver was that, after being used a few times, writers either had to use it, or have the audience thinking 'why didn't he use the sonic screwdriver?' With the deadlock seal, good writers can just say add a line of dialog saying 'oh, doesn't work', and move on. Imagine 42, for example, without the deadlock seal. Either there would have to be some contrived way of losing the sonic screwdriver at the start, or the audience would have sat there saying 'why don't you just use the sonic screwdriver on the doors?!?!?' Just mentioning the word 'deadlock' meant that we all knew that the magic wand wouldn't work, so there was tension that didn't seem artificial.

With a good writer, the sonic screwdriver is a substitute for technobabble. Put on the glasses, wave the magic wand, and something involving technology that the audience doesn't need to care about just happened and you can return to the plot. No need to go into long explanations. We all know the sonic screwdriver does complicated things with technology, and we don't need to know the details.

Re:spolier:The sonic screwdriver seems to be gone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36306796)

"We all know the sonic screwdriver does complicated things with technology, and we don't need to know the details."

Actually, I like those details. It is like Superman and kryptonite. Just how did all that kryptonite make it to earth? How many Superman villains have attained it? Over the years, the stories would attest that it is sold at the corner store. >_>

Just how many objects are deadlocked? If it is that trivial to deadlock, why not deadlock EVERY door. Then, such a commonality would suggest more common tools to circumvent it. I think using "deadlock" is a cheap workaround and sets a very bad precedence and the SS being such a "magic wand" is a cheap workaround in writing. I can think of many ways you wouldn't be able to pass through a door (in this genre), so the writers shouldn't have an issue either. They shouldn't be so damned lazy.

Re:spolier:The sonic screwdriver seems to be gone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36306868)

It is like Superman and kryptonite. Just how did all that kryptonite make it to earth?

Supposedly the hyperdrive of the spaceship Kal-El came on had some problems, allowing the kryptonite to follow quite easily.

Re:spolier:The sonic screwdriver seems to be gone (2)

Hognoxious (631665) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306914)

If it is that trivial to deadlock, why not deadlock EVERY door.

Cost. Even galaxy conquering space monsters have accountants.

Re:spolier:The sonic screwdriver seems to be gone (4, Interesting)

delinear (991444) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306838)

What I think works particularly well with the sonic is the fact that it's used so much, but much of the time appears to do little or nothing. The doctor will quite often point it at people or things and take a "reading" that he doesn't do anything with or about, which is a nice way of saying "this tool is always here but it's not always useful" - they've made mention in the past of how flaky it can be. The doctor uses it almost as an extension of his sense to probe situations in the same way as a human might use smell and sound to augment sight (and still sometimes come up with the wrong answer). Conversely using it less but only using it in situations where it always works to save the day would turn it from a tool into a miracle device. What we need is more of the screwdriver but not always more of it saving the day.

Re:spolier:The sonic screwdriver seems to be gone (1)

JasterBobaMereel (1102861) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306746)

They are shortcuts ...
Sonic Screwdriver - Unlock doors easily, mend devices, scan for information
Psychic Paper - Get access and co-operation
Daleks - Here comes trouble
Tardis - Get to latest adventure

They can be overused, but if used correctly simply keep the plot going

All could be used to escape from the scene, or solve the plot too quickly, so all have limitations (Deadlocks, High IQ, Stairs etc ...)

Star Trek had the same issue, get into trouble just beam out ...except either they couldn't, or it would not solve the issue ...

Re:spolier:The sonic screwdriver seems to be gone (1)

itsdapead (734413) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306604)

They solved the problem with the sonic screwdriver a few years ago by inventing the deadlock seal - anything that is deadlock sealed can't be opened by the magic wand.

Plus - it can't do wood...

Re:spolier:The sonic screwdriver seems to be gone (2)

ThunderBird89 (1293256) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306412)

He did give it to his ganger to disintegrate the animalistic one (though I fail to see why couldn't they just open the door for a second, and have the real Doctor press the button), but by the end of the episode, the TARDIS generated the new one (and presumably destroyed the old one to prevent misuse), which he used to disintegrate Amy's replicant.

Re:spolier:The sonic screwdriver seems to be gone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36306450)

I believe this was because the Doctor needed to see what happened [i]first hand[/i] when you destroy a ganger, ie. his own?

Re:spolier:The sonic screwdriver seems to be gone (1)

itsdapead (734413) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306656)

the TARDIS generated the new one (and presumably destroyed the old one to prevent misuse)

Remember, he needs a spare at some stage that he will have been going to give to River. Plus, they're going to need a spare Doctor for space-suit guy* to going to has** killed, so presumably, we haven't seen the last of the "ganger" Doctor, either...

(* My money is on Amy )

(** Dr Dan Streetmentioner, where are you...)

Re:spolier:The sonic screwdriver seems to be gone (1)

grahamm (8844) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306806)

Or River. Did she not say in a past episode that the reason she is in prison is because she killed a very good man. We know that her timeline and the Doctor's are running in opposite directions, so maybe the Doctor is the man she killed.

Re:spolier:The sonic screwdriver seems to be gone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36306840)

My money is on River.

Remember she killed "a good man" to get imprisoned.

Re:spolier:The sonic screwdriver seems to be gone (1)

delinear (991444) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306872)

Plus, they're going to need a spare Doctor for space-suit guy* to going to has** killed, so presumably, we haven't seen the last of the "ganger" Doctor, either...

Exactly this - they even make some comment about there being some way the essence of the "flesh" doctor might survive the disintegration. If that's not telegraphing the end of that particular story arc, I don't know what is.

Re:spolier:The sonic screwdriver seems to be gone (1)

chriseyre2000 (603088) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306880)

I suspect that the Doctor that died is a Ganger (Can Ganger timelords regenerate?). It would stretch things too far for the Doctor to also be in the spacesuit...

Re:spolier:The sonic screwdriver seems to be gone (1)

johnnysaucepn (1263108) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306526)

The sonic screwdriver has not been written out of the plot, although he does seem to use it more sparingly this series. Like a good magic wand, it's job is to exert the will of the user. In other words, it doesn't change what genius idea the Doctor comes up with, it just provides a useful conduit to make it happen without minutes of exposition and digging around in computer banks. Generally, for everything the screwdriver does, another method exists that would take twice as long - and not make a difference to the plot either way.

Re:spolier:The sonic screwdriver seems to be gone (1)

gl4ss (559668) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306668)

isn't that the whole premise of dr. who? if nothing else, dr can always come in from a later, or earlier, time and catch anyone who's falling to their death, the bad guys can be anything and anything can be conjured up from nothing anywhere. and is regularly done. what's amazing about it is that despite all this, the writers have just been writing the daleks in like beagle boys hunting for scrooges treasure.

Re:spolier:The sonic screwdriver seems to be gone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36306670)

> Good to see it got written out of the plot recently.

however, they are increasingly using scenes where they play very loud music and talk very quickly when solving the problem at hand, to disguise weakness in the plot.

the fact everything stopped (e.g. the acid stopped boiling and the monster stopped pushing the door) when they had the "tender" scenes didn't go unnoticed either.

why bother with the new paradigm then (1)

shooteur (1559845) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306280)

He should of thought of this before bringing in the New Paradigm.

because the redisigned daleks look stupid (1)

penguinchris (1020961) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306308)

I'm guessing they were planning on doing a bunch more Dalek stories... as you say, they definitely set things up for it (though nothing leading to anything specific), and they redesigned how they look.

Problem is that the redesigned Daleks look really stupid... like shitty appliances from Sharper Image or Brookstone, from a decade ago. I get that that's probably the same way they were designed originally, based on shitty appliances, but the appliances in the 60's were apparently a lot cooler looking :)

So, realizing they screwed up with the Dalek redesign, they decide to not have any shows about them for a while... leaving plenty of time for the new Daleks to disappear from time and the original ones to reappear. This can all be explained with a quick hand-wavey timey-wimey explanation like they usually do when things get complicated.

Re:because the redisigned daleks look stupid (1, Insightful)

Platinumrat (1166135) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306320)

Yeah! When I saw the new Daleks, I thought: "They look like the Wiggles... and about as scary!".

Re:because the redisigned daleks look stupid (1)

TaoPhoenix (980487) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306688)

It's gotta be the bold primary colors... those seem to signal children's shows. Plus all the roundedness signals "safe" - it's kinda a meme that scary stuff has sharp angles.

So they now looks like AI robot pets!

Re:because the redisigned daleks look stupid (1)

jo_ham (604554) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306350)

This is my thinking too. The huge build up and reveal to the "new" Daleks, and the subsequent behind the scenes stuff with them really said "we think these are going to be awesome!" However, the fan reaction to the new design has put them off and they have had to do an emergency rethink - probably by bringing back the old ones.

If only the London 2012 committee had done the same thing with the 2012 logo, after realising that after £500,000 or something crazy to design it that *everyone* universally hates it, and the most flattering thing anyone can say is that it looks like Lisa Simpson giving a blow job. The "knocked up in 5 minutes" suggestions posted to the BBC site were almost all better than the official train wreck - although perhaps not the Goatse one that managed to slip through and get posted on the BBC's site.

Re:because the redisigned daleks look stupid (1)

underqualified (1318035) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306462)

Problem is that the redesigned Daleks look really stupid... like shitty appliances from Sharper Image or Brookstone, from a decade ago. I get that that's probably the same way they were designed originally, based on shitty appliances, but the appliances in the 60's were apparently a lot cooler looking :)

So, realizing they screwed up with the Dalek redesign, they decide to not have any shows about them for a while... leaving plenty of time for the new Daleks to disappear from time and the original ones to reappear. This can all be explained with a quick hand-wavey timey-wimey explanation like they usually do when things get complicated.

Then they come back looking like humans!

The Daleks Were Created by Man. They Rebelled. They Evolved. They Look and Feel Human. Some are programmed to think they are Human. There are many copies. And they have a Plan.

Re:because the redisigned daleks look stupid (1)

itsdapead (734413) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306782)

Problem is that the redesigned Daleks look really stupid... like shitty appliances from Sharper Image or Brookstone, from a decade ago.

I'd put it like this:

Old Daleks: Mini Classic

New Daleks: BMW Mini

Re:because the redisigned daleks look stupid (1)

ewanm89 (1052822) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306816)

Upturned dustbin with a sink plunger stuck on the front?

Stairs (1)

BodeNGE (1664379) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306284)

Wern't too hard anyway.

Re:Stairs (1)

ThunderBird89 (1293256) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306414)

Daleks don't use stairs. They level the building.

Borg (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36306292)

It's like the Borg. They were over after BOBW part 2.

Re:Borg (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36306780)

There's an acronym for that? Seriously?

Rights? (1)

gmhowell (26755) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306298)

Or does this have to do with not paying rights to the guy who invented them?

Re:Rights? (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36306332)

Or does this have to do with not paying rights to the guy who invented them?

Yeah, Davros has to make a living somehow.

Re:Rights? (2)

Gideon Wells (1412675) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306476)

I thought the rights were technically paid for, but they were licensed under a "Watchmen" like agreement that meant the rights did not revert back (requiring further payment and/or tweaks to the agreement) until the Daleks weren't used for one season. Whence why the Daleks appeared every season in the new series in at least on episode.

I wish I was a Dalek (1)

ciderbrew (1860166) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306306)

After years of not being able to stand Dr Who, I've only just been able to watch this new one. Does it need to be camp? I know the BBC can't spend money; but even the The Dresden Files looked better. I wish liked it more. I would go back and watch the old ones to try and get into it; but his penchant for annoying ginger girls puts me off.

Re:I wish I was a Dalek (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36306406)

Having absorbed the old Dr Who with mother's milk, I must take exception to your attitiude. Dr Who is an institution!

Re:I wish I was a Dalek (2, Interesting)

martin-boundary (547041) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306428)

Camp is cool. What the show really needs though is more people wearing fezzes. If the new Daleks had worn fezzes, they'd never have been shitcanned.

Re:I wish I was a Dalek (1)

JustOK (667959) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306538)

or bow ties. A Dalek with a bow tie AND a fez...

Re:I wish I was a Dalek (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36306614)

You mean like this: A Dalek in a fez and a bow tie [flickr.com] . :D

Yes, the Internet has EVERYTHING.

Your turn: Rule-34 this! ;)

Re:I wish I was a Dalek (1)

JustOK (667959) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306694)

a dalek goatse

Re:I wish I was a Dalek (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36306832)

Found one here [deviantart.com] .

Re:I wish I was a Dalek (1)

Angostura (703910) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306546)

A dalek in a bow-tie.

Now that would be classy.

Re:I wish I was a Dalek (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36306846)

Nah, a Stetson. Stetsons are cool.

Re:I wish I was a Dalek (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36306584)

Thanks for letting us know that you don't like it. Like thousands of others, I'll enter this important information into my diary, and I'm sure someone will create a Wiki page listing this information.

keep daleks, get rid of writers (1)

bloodhawk (813939) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306316)

Keep the Daleks, but for the love of everything scifi remove the fucking love stories from the show. Also give the current writers the boot, they can take matt smith with them, though in truth he may just suck because of the truly horrible writing.

Re:keep daleks, get rid of writers (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36306446)

Doctor Who's writing is currently better than it has ever been, and Matt Smith is ideal for the role. It's so easy to look back with vague memories and criticise the current version, but don't spoil it while we are experiencing a high moment for the show.

Re:keep daleks, get rid of writers (2)

bloodhawk (813939) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306466)

Sorry I could not disagree more. I have seen almost every episode of all 11 doctors and sat through the great along with some god awefull episodes, but I have never found the show so completely and utterly boring as this current season. This to me is without question the worst it has ever been.

Re:keep daleks, get rid of writers (1)

RubberDogBone (851604) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306602)

While I will agree there has been a lot of waving arms about the room and proclaiming "There is a CRISIS!!!!1111 -but I know how to solve it! But first, I need a stuffed dog toy. WALK WITH ME!" with this Doctor, it sort of works because the guy seems like a flibbertygibbit.

But it seems as if the writers have some sort of mandate to come up with twisty bits every other episode. When a character we have all been watching all season suddenly turns out to not be the real thing, then at some point it means the producers and writers have been giving the finger to the audience. And when stunts like that become the norm, regular mundane plots become neglected.

Re:keep daleks, get rid of writers (1)

bloodhawk (813939) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306650)

They have made the doctor into some twisted version of inspector gadget with this season. He seems to have no clue but always manages to stumble into the solution. This is not what Doctor Who was meant to be, at least not to me. An overarching story is fine, the odd plot twist is fine. A blundering idiot for a doctor with stupid love stories and that idiotic River theme they have going seems they have finally lost the plot, it is now more like a soapy than the different and cool scifi show I fell in love with.

Re:keep daleks, get rid of writers (1)

martin-boundary (547041) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306520)

I don't know about that. Maybe it's just me, but I'm finding the current season is getting to be quite hard to follow. I think Moffat needs to cut down just a bit on the wholesale timeline rewriting that he likes to do. There's a fine line between making things complicated, and making things so complicated that people don't bother to untangle it (eg Lost).

Re:keep daleks, get rid of writers (1)

malkavian (9512) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306678)

I've found it pretty straightforward.. There's an undercurrent going on, and it's been interesting following it, but certainly not over complicated..

Horrible writers (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36306370)

Yeah, they should kick these bad writers with names that nobody knows like Neil Gaiman,

50th Anniversary??? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36306386)

They better be back in time for the Doctor Who anniversary next year!!!

Nope. (1)

Black Parrot (19622) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306416)

which means they are the most reliably defeatable enemies in the universe.

Surely they're not as incompetent as Evil Warlords, who are so bad that they have to keep a rulebook on screw-ups to avoid.

Re:Nope. (1)

arkenian (1560563) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306664)

which means they are the most reliably defeatable enemies in the universe.

Surely they're not as incompetent as Evil Warlords, who are so bad that they have to keep a rulebook on screw-ups to avoid.

You forgot the most important part: "... and then, decide that this time is special, so ignore all the advice."

Cheating Daleks (1)

Zoxed (676559) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306434)

I still think it was cheating when they changed the Daleks to be able to float up stairs :-)

Re:Cheating Daleks (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36306648)

Didn't they do that in the 60s? I can remember them floating from Pertwee episodes.

So technically, I think that means they didn't change anything.

For the Best (2)

WhirlwindMonk (1975382) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306470)

Definitely for the best in my opinion, and not just because of writing quality, the new design, or anything like that. They've just lost their "oomph." Early on, they were terrifying, seeing them pop up suddenly made my heart sink, wondering how they would get through the situation. Now that the Doctor has plowed through them countless times, in increasingly absurd numbers, they just don't evoke that reaction anymore. "I am the last Dalek!" *dead* "We are the last of the Dalek fleet!" *dead* "We are the last five Daleks!" *dead* "We are all the Daleks ever!" *dead* "We are the last five Daleks! (again!)" *dead*

And, at least for me, the same is true of the cybermen. To be fair, I wasn't a huge fan of them as an enemy in the first place, but they definitely feel stale to me now. I'd love to see the return of some of the enemies used only a couple times, or something new and unique. The weeping angels were just fantastic. They were unique, dangerous without being pegged as "THE WORST THING THAT THE DOCTOR HAS EVER FACED!!!!11", and, perhaps most importantly, used sparingly. Maybe one more episode of them this season, perhaps with a nice twist on the theme, amidst some one-shot challenges, and perhaps even a brand new recurring foe.

Re:For the Best (1)

bsane (148894) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306674)

I'm not a huge fan of cybermen either, but I the current rounds of cybermen are supposedly separately evolved. 'Cybermen' is more like a category of self-replicating cyborg, who all happen to have the same mask. I'm not saying that makes sense or is ok, but its different than 'we got them all! except for this one...'

The Doctor needs a break too (5, Interesting)

RedBear (207369) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306478)

Unfortunately the Daleks aren't the only thing that needs a break. So does the Doctor. He has become a bad charicature of himself.

This new season is sort of like being forced to watch a Jerry Bruckheimer film every weekend, with all of the ludicrously over-dramatic theme music and gag-me-with-a-spoon melodramatic themes. Already last season the new Doctor was a little too full of himself, but I was quite shocked to find that it got infinitely worse this season. And the ridiculous "mysterious" River Song character that keeps being forced into every episode for some unknown reason just makes me want to vomit. Every time she smugly says her signature line I want someone to punch her in the mouth.

The plots, and the Doctor himself, are so incoherent that even I barely know what the hell just happened at the end of an episode, and I'm normally the guy in the room who is explaining the plot twists to others. The new episodes make almost zero sense, like they're using some random plot element generator to write the stories for them. The behavior of the characters no longer rings true, so the stories fall flat. The new Doctor comes across as a gibbering moron who doesn't pay attention to anyone or anything besides himself and yet magically finds his way out of every possible situation without seeming to have the slightest clue what he's doing.

I've managed to find and watch nearly every episode of the old series (thanks Pirate Bay!) and thoroughly enjoyed almost every single episode, from the first Doctor right up through all the David Tennant seasons. But this newest stuff has pretty much made me stop wanting to watch the show, at least until they get new writers. It takes some real talent to screw up a show that has been pretty entertaining for decades already using a very simple formula. They should really just rename the show to "The Something Horribly Bad Happens to the Tardis Every Week Show" which seems to be the common theme now.

Re:The Doctor needs a break too (1)

bloodhawk (813939) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306508)

You pretty well nailed my exact thoughts. After over 30 years of eagerly watching anything and everything Doctor who I am finding the new stuff more and more cringe worthy, The current season is beyond apalling, perhaps the show needs a rest again till they can find some decent writers that can rediscover what made Doctor Who such a long lasting show in the first place, and it certainly wasn't the shit they are currently churning out.

Re:The Doctor needs a break too (1)

Threni (635302) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306802)

> You pretty well nailed my exact thoughts. After over 30 years of eagerly watching
> anything and everything Doctor who I am finding the new stuff more and more cringe
> worthy,

Possibly because 30 years ago you were a child, and now you are grown up?

It's just like Mr Noodle from Elmo's World. I used to find it funny, but now I just think he attempts to feed plants with a spoon rather than, say, a glass of water are simply laughable.

Re:The Doctor needs a break too (1)

bloodhawk (813939) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306844)

I can still enjoy old episodes, I can even enjoy most all of it including most of the david tennent stuff (most). Age has nothing to do wtih it. The current stuff is like watching a soapy combined with inspector Gadget and Lost.

Re:The Doctor needs a break too (1)

CrackedButter (646746) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306676)

Totally disagree, this season has been pretty good apart from the yawn fest that was the pirate episode. Though it isn't perfect, but what season is? I do feel a little cheated by the fourth episode as I thought we would meet other Time Lords, other than that, I think it's been pretty coherent as a series. Though I should mention, it was soooo predictable that the ganger Doctor wasn't going to survive beyond the story it was introduced in. It felt like a cop out that those two gangers *had* to stay behind and stop the monster coming through the door. It was hardly a tight situation so everybody could make it back to the TARDIS. Oh actually while I'm nitpicking, didn't it seem forced that the humans rejected the gangers right off the bat. My reaction would be like the Doctor's, fucking cool! A double!

What Moffat might be trying to do with the entire season is add some value to them so we have to re-watch them again. Like Fight Club, it deserved a second and third viewing because the ending changed the entire premise of the story.

Amy Pond annoys me btw, I'm glad she won't feature much in the next episode, time for Rory to stand up and become a more central character as I like him very much. He has a heart and doesn't seem as self-centred as Amy (he was moved by the TARDIS dying in the previous story). Rory also isn't the racist Amy is.

Re:The Doctor needs a break too (1, Interesting)

RedBear (207369) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306830)

You're reply is quite amusing, probably unintentionally. You like the show except for all the boring, predictable, nonsensical and annoying parts? Perhaps you just haven't reached your saturation point yet for those elements like I did from the very first episode this season. I gave it a couple more tries hoping it would get better, but it didn't. I didn't even bother watching the second part of the episode you're referring to, because I was thoroughly disgusted by the time the first half was over.

I have noticed the clues to some over-arcing theme that will certainly be wrapped up at the end of the season, but a grand finale won't save save something for me that has such awful individual episodes.

To each their own. By all means, enjoy the show as long as you are able.

Re:The Doctor needs a break too (1)

PhrostyMcByte (589271) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306714)

Already last season the new Doctor was a little too full of himself, but I was quite shocked to find that it got infinitely worse this season.

Agreed. It seems like the new way the Doctor gets out of impossible situations always begins with something like "Do you know who I am? I did X, I did Y, I'm the Doctor, you should fear me!", sometimes ending with the bad guys just picking up and scampering away.

Last season was terrible about this, and it's carried over into this season despite the new Doctor and change of show runner. The cocky Doctor needs to go.

River Song doesn't bother me quite as much, but she's definitely the Doctor's version of LOST -- lots of mystery and never any pay off. It seems like this arc might finally come to an end this season, but who knows.

Re:The Doctor needs a break too (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36306718)

Wow. It's amazing how two people can watch the same thing and get something completely different from it.

Since Moffat has taken over, I feel the quality is the best it's ever been. I love the season spanning sub-plots, which are built up with plot hints and subtle clues over months. They're always surprising, yet for me have been logical and obvious when revealed.

I could go on, but I've made my point. I'm not saying I'm right, 'cos there's no such thing with matters of taste, obviously, but I do find it fascinating how I disagree with every single one of your points about as strongly as I could.

The human brain. Infinite possibilities :p

Re:The Doctor needs a break too (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36306752)

You sound like someone that would like "lost". Since Moffat Started it has all been downhill and it aint a gently sloping hill at that. for the first time ever I am hoping each episode the doctor or maybe river/rory/amy dies so they can find an excuse to flush the garbage stories lines they have adopted and maybe push it back to where it should be. I truly hope this season sees the end of moffat and potentially the current cast too (though with the current writing it is impossible to say if thy have any potential to actualy be good).

Re:The Doctor needs a break too (1)

rsmith-mac (639075) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306764)

I'm not sure I'd agree that the Doctor has become a caricature of himself, but certainly the quality of the plots has suffered.

Moffat's desire to have a strong overarching plot means that nothing ever makes sense until the very end. It falls in to that same trap that shows like Lost and Heroes did, where confusing the audience was mistaken for a clever plot ("ha ha, I fooled you!"). Certainly there are good reasons to do arcs, and well done arcs are fantastic, but as it stands the main arcs of Moffet's seasons make absolutely no sense. It's very hard to enjoy a show when you have no idea what's going on.

Re:The Doctor needs a break too (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36306792)

> The new episodes make almost zero sense

Since they rebooted the series they have been pushing more for time paradoxes running stories. For example "Bad Wolf", "Torchwood", "Saxon" and "There is something on your back". Each season it appears to get more and more in your face. In this series it appears to be the woman through the hatch, which makes sense now since the last weekend.

So at the start of each series they do appear to be a mess but wrap up nicely.

Daleks: Overused but Iconic (1)

ThunderBird89 (1293256) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306480)

"[...] they are the most reliably defeatable enemies in the universe."

Thing is, the Daleks were only defeated once in the new series (Parting Of The Ways), all the other times, only the current plan was defeated, and the Daleks escaped to plot again. While I do agree that they've become overused, they're the most iconic leg of the triad of classical opponents (the other two being The Master, who's been timelocked and removed from this universe, and they Cybermen, who are going to appear in the next episode). The Sontarans and the other opponents brought back from the old series don't really cut it this time around, but Moffat has been successful in creating some truly terrifying encounters (The Weeping Angels and the Vashta Nerada), and Russel T. Davies's Midnight Entity was great as well. Maybe the writers should focus on creating new, scarier menaces to bring back the "hiding behind the couch" phenomenon that defined the classic series, and thinking up a way to end the current one, or find a plausible way to weasel out of the "12 regenerations"-limit.

Re:Daleks: Overused but Iconic (1)

JasterBobaMereel (1102861) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306778)

12 regenerations - Easy, Currently on 10 1/2 - 1 forced by the Time lords (which may not count), and it was an artificial limit made by the Time Lords (who are no longer around), which they overrode during the time war (brought back the Master after he was very dead, and had had ~15 regenerations already, and Rassilon, who had had all his regenerations long ago) which the Doctor fought in, so he either has 2,3,12 or as many as he wants left ....

Daleks don't make sense (1)

MalachiK (1944624) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306486)

I've always been bothered by the Daleks. Why would a super advanced battle machine made of 'bonded polly-carboid armour' have such a vulnerable and inefficient targeting system? The eye stalk just doesn't make any sense. And only one weapon? Again, that energy rifle thing just seems a bit daft. I think the problem is that R.T. Davis wrote the Daleks to be the ultimate, unstoppable enemy of the Time Lords because they were one of the most well-known elements of the brand and useful for marketing.. This just doesn't fit well with their retro design. Right up until the end of the 7th doctor's time the Daleks were pretty scary, but hardly invincible (remember Ace taking one out with a baseball bat in Remembrance?)

Re:Daleks don't make sense (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36306720)

That baseball bat had been altered by the Doctor with the Omega Device.

Re:Daleks don't make sense (3, Interesting)

itsdapead (734413) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306756)

I think the problem is that R.T. Davis wrote the Daleks to be the ultimate, unstoppable enemy of the Time Lords because they were one of the most well-known elements of the brand and useful for marketing..

There's a far better plot-driven reason: in the classic "Genesis of the Daleks" Doctor #4 was sent back to wipe the Daleks out before they were created. So, basically, he fired the first shot in the Great Time War.

This just doesn't fit well with their retro design.

But the Daleks are also fanatical racial supremacists, so they would never accept that the design cobbled together by Davros in a bunker was anything but perfect.

I didn't mind them (1)

obarthelemy (160321) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306494)

in the later seasons, I thought they were always well used and quite fun, popping up at weird times and delightfully evil. And their simplicity contrasts nicely with the rest of Dr Who, which is usually a bit involved.

I'm sure their come back will be grand.

Colored daleks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36306504)

The 'new' daleks suck. They are the most horrible enemies you can get, and now they come in 5 colors.... AAAAAAAAAARGH !! They really messed up this one...

Coloured daleks (1)

MitchAmes (1080977) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306666)

The first thing I thought of when I saw the coloured daleks was that the Doctor had fallen into an episode of the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers [wikipedia.org] .
(That's what you get for having children who lived and breathed Power Rangers for several years.)

At least the Daleks don't have relationships (3, Funny)

Bongo (13261) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306530)

But honey, how would you feel if I rescued you from an inner city estate?

EXTERMINATE.

Well ok, how about if I hoisted you out of a killer taxi in a wedding dress?

EXTERMINATE.

Waited 2000 years by your side?

EXTERMINATE.

Flowers?

EXTERMINATE.

They are only getting a break (1)

Windwraith (932426) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306588)

Confirmed by Moffat to be just this season, which is probably tight in terms of content. We shall get more technicolor Dalek stuff.

I wasn't a proper fan of the series until the revival, yet I watched enough of the old series to want to follow that revival when it was aired.
I dunno, some people complains, but I really really like the revival. And....I kind of prefer the Daleks from before the "last paradigm" but just because the armor is more detailed. I feel rather satisfied with the modern Dalek overall (they can't be defeated by stairs!).

Spinoff! (1)

mikeq (113400) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306632)

They should do a spinoff that shows the situation from the Dalek point of view.

Re:Spinoff! (1)

The Grim Reefer2 (1195989) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306824)

They should do a spinoff that shows the situation from the Dalek point of view.

I don't think you really need a show to get that across. They're not exactly the most nuanced of charters, a 30 second commercial would be sufficient:

"EX-TERM-IN-ATE!"

"DALEKS-ARE-SUPREME! EVERYTHING-NOT-DALEK-MUST-BE-EXTERMINATED!

"THE-DOC-TOR-IS-THE-ENEMY!"

"EX-TERM-IN-ATE!!!"

Never mind. a 15 second commercial will do.

No, THESE are the most defeated adversaries... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36306740)

I have one thing to say to Steven Moffat (1)

TimeElf1 (781120) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306744)

Ex-ter-min-ate! Ex-ter-min-ate! Ex-ter-min-ate!

Once they started flying... (1)

biodata (1981610) | more than 3 years ago | (#36306922)

I knew their days were numbered. The old Daleks were scary in their relentless trundling unstoppableness. They had a physicalness which was scary because it was so mechanical and alien. Once they started flying you could tell it was all CGI and hence not scary. Daleks were designed to trundle, not fly.
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