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Beta For Thunderbird 5.0 Released

Soulskill posted more than 3 years ago | from the new-and-improved,-now-with-larger-numbers dept.

Mozilla 75

scdeimos writes "Mozilla has announced the release of Thunderbird 5.0b1, the first in their new rapid release cycles. According to the Thunderbird Beta FAQ, Thunderbird 4 was skipped, as the program's version is now tied to the underlying Gecko engine."

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Oh boy, beta! (1)

Hatta (162192) | more than 3 years ago | (#36330674)

Let us know when it's released.

version numbers (1)

drkamil (1242294) | more than 3 years ago | (#36330678)

they went toally crazy this quartal

gmail (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36330708)

I used Thunderbird for years, but I recently switched to using gmail exclusively. I can send and receive from my old accounts, and... I don't have to be at my PC to check my email.

I feel kind of guilty switching after using Thunderbird for so long, but its just more convenient.

Re:gmail (4, Interesting)

j-pimp (177072) | more than 3 years ago | (#36330794)

I use gmail exclusively for sending and receiving mail. However, I keep thunderbird running the the background to backup my mail. I use thunderbird as opposed to something like fetchmail because when I am offline I can revert to thunderbird as a client, and I backup my calendar and contacts with it.

Re:gmail (1)

AmiMoJo (196126) | more than 3 years ago | (#36338874)

I actually prefer Thunderbird's editor and three column display, but poor integration with gmail made me switch to using gmail only. It is supposed to sync up with IMAP but in reality it doesn't work very well.

Re:gmail (1)

alt236_ftw (2007300) | more than 3 years ago | (#36330856)

And what happens if the cloud storage glitches/crashes and you lose years of emails (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/27/gmail-reset-emails-deleted_n_828863.html)? Yes, it was fixed this time and more contingencies are now in place, but the risk is still there.

You can still use Thunderbird (or any other mail client) to store an off-line copy of your email via POP3/IMAP.

Re:gmail (0)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 3 years ago | (#36331000)

I just have to say, "And nothing of importance was lost". Seriously most people don't care that much about having every single email they've ever sent or received archived for history. Do you record every telephone call? Every conversation? Do you keep IM chat logs? This is the equivalient of what most people use email for. I won't worry that much if all my email disappeared tomorrow. I mean, it's nice and all that the email is there to look at, and I don't actually delete any email, since gmail offers basically unlimited storage. However I don't think my life would be that worse if all my email went missing. I might be kind of disappointed in gmail. Might even switch email providers, but I don't think it would be anything to worry about.

Re:gmail (3, Insightful)

alt236_ftw (2007300) | more than 3 years ago | (#36331394)

As you said, it depends what you use you email for.

The fact that *you* don't use your email for anything important, does not mean that *I* don't.

In my emails accounts (not only GMail) I have contracts, project proposals, contact details, collaborative discussions for projects, things I have emailed to myself as a backup, copyright notices for things I own and have released, etc.
Not to mention professional discussions, announcements and proposals. And more personal emails as well.

As organisations move to the cloud (my University is doing so now) one needs to think of What-If scenarios and plan accordingly.

For example, what happens if you are off-line and want to access an email?

Parent is correct - of course needs vary! (1)

Have Brain Will Rent (1031664) | more than 3 years ago | (#36333000)

Mod parent up insightful +1

My email is important to me (and to some others) and I want it 100% under my control. I want its security, backup, etc. to be done exactly the way I want it done and I want to be able to access it (all of it) when I'm offline. Although these requirements may not be necessary for many people I don't think that stops them from being reasonable requirements.

Unfortunately I'm loving TBird less and less as the years go by, but that's a different story.

Re:gmail (1)

hedwards (940851) | more than 3 years ago | (#36331396)

And what happens when you suddenly need that email from a few years back that you didn't think you'd need? Seriously, unless you're doing a lot of email, chances are that the volume is small enough to keep backed up. Having something like Thunderbird chugging away in the background or some other program backing things up means that if somebody fat fingers your data that you've at least got some backup somewhere that covers it.

Re:gmail (1)

Abstrackt (609015) | more than 3 years ago | (#36331576)

I've discovered certain advantages to having an extended archive (5+ years). Everyone I've had extended communications with gets their own folder in the archive and I use it as a profile and note store. That information usually isn't necessary but sometimes it's a real lifesaver.

Once, I was involved in a lawsuit where someone was convinced I had agreed to a four-year contract and wanted to sue me for about a million dollars for breaching it; going back three years, I was able to prove that he had sent a contract but that I explicitly refused the sections he said I breached and that he agreed to my amendments. (The lesson I learned too late here is that you're never too young or too clever to have a lawyer witness your contracts). Obviously that doesn't happen every day but that incident sold me on keeping as much email as possible.

Re:gmail (1)

WuphonsReach (684551) | more than 3 years ago | (#36332730)

I just archive by year now. The annual folders generally only have 3-6k messages and it's not hard to narrow things down by year.

Plus it makes it easier to archive infrequently instead of having to stay constantly on top of it. Procrastinate for a few months and it's still only a 1 or 2 step operation to sweep all the old email into the proper folder.

I get lazier as the search tools get better. I would go by decade, but even Thunderbird has issues once you get up into the tens of thousands of messages in a single folder.

(And most other mail clients fall over and die past a few thousand messages in a folder.)

Re:gmail (1)

bunratty (545641) | more than 3 years ago | (#36330992)

I access my gmail through Thunderbird using IMAP. If I need to access gmail from another computer, I can use gmail's web interface.

Re:gmail (1)

cpu6502 (1960974) | more than 3 years ago | (#36331216)

IMAP?
does anyone know if this work with Mozilla SeaMonkey too?

Re:gmail (1)

WuphonsReach (684551) | more than 3 years ago | (#36332744)

Given that IMAP was first RFC'd back in 1986 and has been around for as long as POP3 (more or less), there's no reason why Seamonkey would not have IMAP support. And if it does, no reason that it should not work with GMail.

Unless GMail is doing some sort of non-standard IMAP. (There's been some talk on the Thunderbird users support group this week of Yahoo! doing non-standard IMAP things, so it's possible.)

Re:gmail (1)

LordLucless (582312) | more than 3 years ago | (#36331166)

I can send and receive from my old accounts, and... I don't have to be at my PC to check my email.

That's got nothing to do with Thunderbird, really. Gmail is user agent and service provider combined; Thunderbird is just a user agent. As long as you know your provider details, you can access your email from any computer with telnet if you have to. I generally have a smart phone with me anywhere I go these days, so if I'm not near my computer, it's just as useful for retrieving email as thunderbird.

Plus, as I run my own mailserver, I keep control of my own mail, instead of trusting and hoping Google will do it for me.

Disband it... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36330752)

There are people that actually use Thunderbird??

Re:Disband it... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36330852)

I use it for corporate exchange integration and it works very well. Much better than the alternatives (outlook in wine, evolution, crippled non-IE version of webmail, etc)

Re:Disband it... (1)

Nerdfest (867930) | more than 3 years ago | (#36330862)

There are many, and across multiple operating systems. The next version of Ubuntu 11.10, will also switch to ThunderBird from Evolution as its default email client.

Re:Disband it... (2)

SkunkPussy (85271) | more than 3 years ago | (#36330994)

about time! evolution is such a slow piece of shit

Re:Disband it... (1)

John Bresnahan (638668) | more than 3 years ago | (#36330880)

I do. I use a Gmail account, and I sometimes use the web interface. But I prefer dealing with email using Thunderbird, and I like that Thunderbird keeps a local copy of everything in my Gmail folders. If I'm offline (or if Google somehow loses their copy of my email) I like that I still have access to my entire email archive.

Re:Disband it... (1)

Kell Bengal (711123) | more than 3 years ago | (#36330966)

I use it for both my work and personal accounts. I have no love for google, and a stand-alone client is just fine for me. With one exception, all of my email accounts have their own web-interfaces if I need them, anyway. Gmail is overrated - people found it so much better than the free email providers that were available when it was released, and now they are hooked on the g-teat. However, it has long since ceased being unique or especially meritorious.

Re:Disband it... (1)

DarwinSurvivor (1752106) | more than 3 years ago | (#36339738)

It's still one of the VERY few free email services that offers IMAP (most don't even have POP3). That was the final straw for me switching to it from hotmail (which I created well over a decade ago just after it had been bought out by MS).

Eventually I want to get a private mail server on my own domain, but don't have the time to figure out a good mail server at the moment.

Re:Disband it... (1)

b0bby (201198) | more than 3 years ago | (#36330980)

I use it - as others have said, it gives me a backup, and I like that I can easily access multiple accounts (like hotmail accounts that I use for various things, etc). It's a decent email client, and I'm used to it.

Re:Disband it... (1)

TheBig1 (966884) | more than 3 years ago | (#36331230)

I use it (on OSX). I don't like the default Mail.app as it does some weird things with IMAP server read flags (at least the last version I used did this, it was some time ago so it may have been fixed). Plus, the cross platform Thunderbird lets me use it on Linux / Windows boxes (OK, no Windows for a couple years now, but when I used it at work, I had Thunderbird on it). Add Enigmail for GPG, and you have a nice little mail client. I have it download my GMail via IMAP, so if I need to check mail on someone else's computer, I can do that too via the web interface.

Re:Disband it... (1)

surveyork (1505897) | more than 3 years ago | (#36331852)

I use Thunderbird. I have e-mail accounts with different e-mail providers. It's nice to be able to have them all centralized in one place. Plus, when not in front of my home PC I can always check the web e-mail versions. Cloud + local storage for the win! :)

Re:Disband it... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36333146)

Yes. Next Question?

I use it because:-

- I will not trust Google with my email.
- I have multiple domains & email acounts that I want to keep separate.
- I can copy my emails from Windows to Linux to OSX and carry on using them.

Sure there are frustrations but as far as I'm concerned, it works. It works in the way I want to work.

Ok?

3.1 to 5.0 (1)

ProbablyJoe (1914672) | more than 3 years ago | (#36330760)

I hope the guy who said Chrome is good because of higher version numbers is listening! Thunderbird jumped from 3.1 to 5.0 in under a year, oh boy!

(Just downloaded it, looks the same, updates are minor. Not that that's a bad thing, never had much to complain about with Thunderbird, though I didn't like what they did with the search functionality and stuff in 3.0)

Re:3.1 to 5.0 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36330860)

> I didn't like what they did with the search functionality and stuff in 3.0

Yeah, being able to effectively search emails would be nice, I dont mind if its slow, I'd just like it to, you know.. work. Considering using gmail instead, its half-assed as is usual for a web app, but I can find stuff in it

Re:3.1 to 5.0 (1)

Eponymous Coward (6097) | more than 3 years ago | (#36330986)

Gmail is by far my favorite mail client, but I pretty much have to stick with Thunderbird for the gpg plugin. I tried using FireGPG for a while, but it didn't work very well.

Re:3.1 to 5.0 (1)

dotancohen (1015143) | more than 3 years ago | (#36331022)

Tbird 3.0 has terrific search feature? What's missing for you, I'll point you to the right extension or file an RFE.

Re:3.1 to 5.0 (1)

hedwards (940851) | more than 3 years ago | (#36331478)

The filter is great, but for whatever reason they didn't think to include the ability to filter things which don't have stars. Which makes it a pain because often times I want to delete or work with everything in a folder that isn't starred, but the program won't do that. Sure there's a filter for starred, but there is no way of inverting the search at present. I did look for a solution, but have been unsuccessful as of late.

Re:3.1 to 5.0 (1)

QuasiSteve (2042606) | more than 3 years ago | (#36331882)

You're now referring to the filter, though. That's the quickfilter that's above the messages list.

Search, on the other hand, most certainly can.
"Status" "isn't" "Starred"

While not as convenient as the filter, it'll probably get done what you need done with the stars?

Though I hid the 'starred' column as I don't even know what its use is next to Tags (I've got saved searches for the tags I use frequently).

Re:3.1 to 5.0 (2)

dotancohen (1015143) | more than 3 years ago | (#36330912)

There are lots of changes under the hood. Thunderbird Conversations [1] was almost useless on Tbird 2.x, 3.0 and 3.1. For about a year now the extension has been developed with the next generation Tbird in mind (I think that it was called 3.4 internally, until yesterday). You are going to like Conversations!

[1] https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/thunderbird/addon/gmail-conversation-view/ [mozilla.org]

Re:3.1 to 5.0 (1)

war4peace (1628283) | more than 3 years ago | (#36330942)

They follow the successful model of the Apollo MP3 player, which died back in 2007 after reaching version... 37zz :)
Basically those guys added +1 to the version number regardless of what they would update.
I am looking forward to seeing versions like 2e^14 or 1e18 :)

Re:3.1 to 5.0 (1)

SkunkPussy (85271) | more than 3 years ago | (#36331014)

ye looking at the release notes I can't see any reason for me to upgrade.

web vs desktop email software (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36330808)

I've used Thunderbird in the past and liked it, but honestly I prefer web based email. I understand that dedicated email clients have more features but I'm finding it's just not that compelling for me to switch back.

New Account Setup Wizard (1)

Metabolife (961249) | more than 3 years ago | (#36330872)

Finally. Maybe now I won't have to cut off the auto-detect because it doesn't allow me to enter POP manually.

Re:New Account Setup Wizard (1)

Maltheus (248271) | more than 3 years ago | (#36330982)

Amen brother. If only I had the mod points.

Agreed (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36331214)

Since 3.0 the account setup wizard has been absolutely maddening for me. Thunderbird developers, listen up: THE SETUP NEEDS AN OPTION TO BYPASS THE WIZARD.

Let's repeat that: THE SETUP NEEDS AN OPTION TO BYPASS THE WIZARD.

This option should be available BEFORE the wizard starts spinning out of control, not during, not after, but BEFORE.

I have complained about this at least 5 times to the developers only to fall upon deaf ears. But the absurd setup procedure isn't the only problem here: the account folder is named after whatever the wizard pulls out of its ass on its first try -- NOT the correct account/domain which I give to the setup! WHAT IN THE HELL? After a thouroughly frustrating setup, you are rewarded with an account folder named 100% incorrectly.

Of course this will never happen. I fully expect the wizard to be just as broken in the new release, and I fully expect to keep my small corporate network on 2.0.0.24 for yet another year.

Re:Agreed (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36331574)

THE SETUP NEEDS AN OPTION TO BYPASS THE WIZARD.

YES YES YES YES.

That thing is a FPITA! How that ever made it to be the default, I'll never know - but it certainly doesn't make things easier.

Re:Agreed (1)

Exceptica (2022320) | more than 3 years ago | (#36336350)

Most likely the few and mediocre developers left on this sorry project with clamorous, long-standing bugs, unresponsive GUI and substandard code that has been riding on the reputation of Firefox since version 1 won't hear you.

I have coded a number of small C++ programs, in the ballpark of 30,000 lines that run here and there in my office and somewhere else. My experience is that what is written on the source happens exactly, precisely in the executable. Not a single time in 13 years I have seen an unexplainable behavior. I have seen errors and bugs, that when corrected are never seen again. Computers are deterministic machines. I cannot, for the love of me, begin to understand what's going on inside the disastrous piece of crap that is Thunderbird, versions 2, 3 or 5.

I code only in C++, use the STL occasionally and don't have more sophisticated needs so this is undoubtedly the reason why I'm seeing a good correspondence between what I write and what happens. I can chosse the tech I am going to use to solve a problem at work (I'm that lucky) and so I pick with great care. If I had to venture a guess I would say Thunderbird is a mish-mash of unproven (or misused, excuse my ignorance here) technologies that don't go well together, coded by slightly incompetent people.

What follows is my notes on replacements:
Googling for 'imap client' always returns the same old results:
- eudora: dead, '90s feeling, doesn't tell the user why it is unresponsive or what it is doing, unusable in an office if you value your job
- mulberry: nice but slow and occasionally stupid, specialy retrieving a folder for the first time. It retrieves just a screenful of headers and leaves the rest to work lazily. You hit 'end' and it retrieves every header in between, no matter if it's 100 or 20,000. Also, very dated HTML rendering. Also, bugtracker makes it look like it's going to explode anytime. Bad Unicode handling and long-standing bugs, typical of one-developer projects and his religious views - unusable in an office
- pegasus mail: haven't looked closely
- sylpheed: looks very nice, good Unicode, few bugs. It's one of my possibilities for the office if it survives day-to day operation
- the bat: better in everything than everyone else, fast, tells you what it is doing. A long task can be cancelled. Good navigation by keyboard. Not good HTML rendering. Costs money but if it works the developers deserve every cent of the fucking 35 $UNIT they ask - another candidate for day-to-day testing and possible replacement of ridiculous thunderbird (whimperdinosaur? tee hee).
- even considering outlook [express] 2007/10 but haven't really looked into them, I should know better. All google finds is hype of microsoft minions and marketing-speak
- really good alternatives like mutt + offlineimap are unusable -sadly- in an office because lusers don't like it

Anybody care to elaborate?

Re:New Account Setup Wizard (1)

murdocj (543661) | more than 3 years ago | (#36332280)

God yes!!!

I suffered with Thunderbird for a couple of years and then when I built a new computer just gave up on it and switched to whatever replaced Outlook Express (Windows Live Mail or something like that). Yes, I know, evil empire and all that, but it just worked, instead of having to try to outguess whatever the Thunderbird auto-configure was trying to do.

(Offtopic) Question (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36330900)

As a non native speaker, wouldn't "Thunderbird 5.0 Beta Released" be better than "Beta For Thunderbird 5.0 Released"?

The latter sounds like if a product called Beta was being released for Thunderbird 5.

Might as well have called it version 2.4 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36331010)

When Version 5 looks and works essentially the same as Version 2, you know that the developers have run out of ideas. Imagine if Office 2007 looked and worked nearly the same as Office 2000. And don't get me started on OpenOffice/LibreOffice, which seems to be frozen in time for the past 10 years. Why bother updating the Version number at all?

Re:Might as well have called it version 2.4 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36331248)

No, the developers left. Check out Postbox to see what the former Thunderbird developers are up to these days. I like it, even if it is getting a little Web 2.0-y.

Where are the features? (1)

whois (27479) | more than 3 years ago | (#36331034)

It seems like this release doesn't really bring anything the user will want bad enough to upgrade. I like the new speedier release schedule because it always seemed like we never got new versions, but I'd also like to see more than just minor bug fixes rolled into a major release.

On a personal soapbox: We've been promised for a while now that sqllite would replace mork for address books. Has it? Being able to synchronize address books between mutt and thunderbird (or an iphone or android contact list) without the use of ldap has been something I've wanted for years. LDAP has never been a complete solution because it was read only from most (all?) common mail clients.

Linkies for reference:
http://www.ceveni.com/2009/03/thunderbird-addressbook-mork-format.html [ceveni.com]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mork_(file_format) [wikipedia.org]

5 year old bug:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=382876 [mozilla.org]

Perhaps this whole idea can be replaced with mozilla sync/weave if they integrate that. I've been worried about the direction of thunderbird since mozilla "spun it off" though. It seems they don't want it/don't want to work on it, but don't really want to let it go either.

After installing and playing with the new version, it looks like mostly a UI change.

Re:Where are the features? (2)

Tridus (79566) | more than 3 years ago | (#36331302)

I was thinking the same thing. This is version numbers run amok. We're going from 3 to 5 and getting "rapid releases" like browsers, only there's nothing being changed. Maybe Thunderbird 6 will feature more rounded corners or something?

There's no substance here. If they were adding integrated calendar support THAT would be a feature worth upgrading for.

Re:Where are the features? (1)

JigJag (2046772) | more than 3 years ago | (#36332080)

I know you want it integrated, but you may want to try installing the Lightning extension to Thunderbird. It allows calendering and it's good enough that I can do everything I used to do with Outlook in my corporate job (send/receive meeting requests, check attendant availability, etc). The one thing I can't do is reply with the voting buttons. JigJag

Re:Where are the features? (1)

DarwinSurvivor (1752106) | more than 3 years ago | (#36339790)

I used it for a while, but I kept getting "the action could not be performed" errors randomly until I repeated the SAME function 3 or 4 times. The main reasons I wanted it was so I could have my upcoming events visible from my inbox and a local backup. But the sidebar for events keeps shrinking to zero and local storage for the calendar NEVER works (and YES I enabled it!).

If anyone knows of a linux compatible calendar program that can RELIABLY backup google calendar, PLEASE drop me a hint, I'm currently stuck using an app-tab in firefox :(

Re:Where are the features? (1)

Have Brain Will Rent (1031664) | more than 3 years ago | (#36333246)

Yeah, or at least always make sure there is a version of Lightning that will work with all new versions. That was a real treat having TBird get upgraded only to find there was no working Lightning for my version.

And at one point they changed the way the profile directories were handled and it broke Beagle's ability to access TBird messages... I know Beagle is being forgotten but I really like the way it works and I really liked having all my email messages being included in searches of my system.

While I'm on a roll how about preserving the settings of the quick filter for each folder? I am so tired of going to an RSS folder and setting it to "unread" then going away to read something else and having to reset the filter again when I return to the RSS folder. Or at least provide a clear way for users to set the default setting for each (or even every) folder.

And would it really be that hard to let me drag sub-folders around in the tree so that they are displayed in the order that *I* want them displayed in????

Maybe an address book that integrated with other apps or at least made it easy to upload to my phone over BT?

I switch mail clients very rarely because it is such a pain. When I originally chose TBird it was because I figured it would at least give me OS independence. But it is starting to be a bit of a pita... but what's the alternative for a local email client with a reasonable set of features that I can take from one platform to another if I need to?

Long ago on an OS far far away I used to run an email client called PMMail (eventually becoming PMMail2000) and newsreader called Gravity - they both did their jobs very very well. PMMail still exists but it is pretty clear that (even though there is a website to buy it) development for it stopped long ago. And for example PMMail had very good and highly configurable message search more than a decade ago... I don't see a lot of improvement in the current crop of clients... it all seems to be about glam and not improvements to real usability but maybe I'm missing some gem????

New mail notification with IMAP... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36331096)

I wonder if a new generation of Thunderbird will get my pet niggle addressed.

I use IMAP4 and am subscribed to a lot of folders - even though only a couple of them require to be actively monitored. I'm notified as I expect about new mail arriving in the main window - but Thunderbird insists on giving me pop-up notifications from the system tray about new email in my (non-urgent) mailing list folders - even though I've not selected "When getting new messages for this account, always check this folder."

I'd really like to be able to configure the pop-up notifications I receive. I like the notifications when (randomly) Thunderbird alerts me to new messages in my Inbox and one/two other folders... but it's frustrating to be alerted to mailing list email arrivals.

I can't be the only person with this gripe.

Re:New mail notification with IMAP... (1)

DarwinSurvivor (1752106) | more than 3 years ago | (#36339802)

I get the same thing with multiple accounts. I only want alerts for my main account, but can't find any way to stop getting alerts for accounts I simply have for helping the owner of that account when they need help (it an order-received account that gets LOTS of e-mails).

International Rescue (3, Funny)

rossdee (243626) | more than 3 years ago | (#36331172)

Whatever happened to Thunderbird 4 ? I always wanted an email client that worked underwater...

But will bug 92165 be fixed? (1)

QuasiSteve (2042606) | more than 3 years ago | (#36331220)

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=92165 [mozilla.org]

I hope not... I wouldn't want to take away Wayne Lydecker's amusement before the bug's 10th Anniversary.

( The bug concerns renaming a folder from "Foo" to "foo" on a filesystem that does not differentiate between uppercase and lowercase, resulting in a "Foo already exists!" error, rather than the case change. )

Re:But will bug 92165 be fixed? (1)

TangoMargarine (1617195) | more than 3 years ago | (#36332566)

If that's the worst sort of bug Thunderbird has, it sounds like a pretty damn good program.

Re:But will bug 92165 be fixed? (1)

QuasiSteve (2042606) | more than 3 years ago | (#36334530)

There have been worse in the past - including loss of e-mail entirely - but nothing too recent.

But your statement requires knowledge of what you're comparing it to, to correctly interpret it.

Another bug, for example, is that at random it will simply stop displaying e-mails; either in the preview pane or when opened separately. A restart fixes this.

Another one involves the RSS reader functionality. If you select message A, the headers for message A are shown, and the body of message A begins to load. Now switch to message B. The headers for message B are shown, but as message A's body just then finishes loading, message A's body gets shown. For whatever reason, message B's body does not get shown.
Deselect/reselect to fix.

Those are just ones I hit every day. The folder rename thing not quite as often, and renaming to a temp name and then to what you want isn't particularly damaging or in requirement of great effort.

However, the severity of a bug or how frequently it is encountered shouldn't be the only driving forces to fixing bugs. Triage is certainly a requirement, but every once in a while, any project would do well to take a day every quarter, say, and devote some developers to bugs that are just plain silly and pretty easy to fix. E.g. typos, a dialog layout with unnatural field ordering, a context menu with a divider bar as the last entry in the menu, etc. and, yes, renaming a folder to the same name with different case. It's not fixing critical flaws, people aren't going to upgrade just because those bugs are fixed, but they are polish and you can finally take them off your bug list, rather than marking new reports as duplicate each time one comes in.

Re:But will bug 92165 be fixed? (1)

theCoder (23772) | more than 3 years ago | (#36343546)

( The bug concerns renaming a folder from "Foo" to "foo" on a filesystem that does not differentiate between uppercase and lowercase, resulting in a "Foo already exists!" error, rather than the case change. )

To be fair, you can hardly expect Thunderbird to fix a bug in the underlying filesystem, can you?

In all seriousness, I'm not even sure how one would fix this bug. I can imagine that the code looks something like:

if (stat(newName, &statBuf) == 0)
{
// error
}
else
{
  if (rename(oldName, newName) != 0) { /* error */ }
}

How does one determine that newName is the same as oldName in the context of the filesystem? The only thing one could possibly do is to just issue the rename(), but that could overwrite a different file that does exist. Perhaps maybe checking to see if the inode of newName is the same as the inode of oldName. But of course, this is primarily a problem on Windows, so I have no idea if inodes are even valid there.

Re:But will bug 92165 be fixed? (1)

QuasiSteve (2042606) | more than 3 years ago | (#36346600)

To be fair, you can hardly expect Thunderbird to fix a bug in the underlying filesystem, can you?

Of course not - but it's not a bug (it's a shortcoming) and I do expect it to work with those shortcomings in a way to get around them.

You wouldn't say that a large program that compresses down to 2MB total simply cannot be distributed on a 3.5" 'floppy' because one can't expect the archiver/distribution platform to fix the 'bug' that is the 1.44MB limit of the medium. You'd expect it to split up the archive, and that's what people ended up doing (and to an extent, still do, but for different reasons).

One method to do this within the Windows ecosystem is to use GetVolumeInformation, get lpFileSystemFlags, and check if FILE_CASE_SENSITIVE_SEARCH is set.

If it is, the filesystem is case sensitive. If it isn't... it isn't.

Presume a renaming from "hello" to "HELLO".

In the case where the filesystem is case sensitive, all you have to do is check if the target filename exists. If it does, issue a warning. If it doesn't, just rename the file using existing code.

In the case where the filesystem is not case sensitive, I can't think of any reason why source "hello" and target "HELLO" (within the same directory) would be separate files, given that the filesystem itself doesn't allow for it. In this case, a rename routine can be called - be that an appropriate one or less appropriate one (e.g. renaming to a temp filename first).

Another solution - short of waiting for everybody to use case-sensitive filesystems - is to not rely solely on the filesystem for mail 'folder' names in the first place; albeit more human-friendly, it's what helps lead to these sorts of issues. Short of a
E.g. when you download a file with a filename that already exists, browsers append " (N)" to the base filename, rather than complain the file already exists (unless you do a right-click + save (link) as).
No reason TB couldn't employ a similar method for filenames that only differ in case - which would also make migration (in the sad event of having to migrate to a case-insensitive filesystem) easier as you don't have to manually resolve the conflicts.

Recurring bug might be fixed (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36331280)

Holy crap, after 4 years it looks like the recurring bug is fixed.

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=373775

I did appreciate this comment:
"Hey, on Sunday this bug will be four years old. What's appropriate? cake? candles? Should we bring gifts?"

But... (1)

drwhite (456200) | more than 3 years ago | (#36331314)

will Thunderbird 5.x allow you to backup your profile on a linux box? There is mozbackup but only for windows.

version numbers ... (1)

georgesdev (1987622) | more than 3 years ago | (#36331402)

Chrome changes version number every month
So Firefox now changes version number several times a year
then Thunderbird skips a version number
What's the next step, Gnome skips from version 4 to version 10 in one month?

Re:version numbers ... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36331544)

With all the complaints about Gnome I've been hearing, I think the next step is for Gnome version numbers to go backwards.

Re:version numbers ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36332100)

well, that's retarded. I use gnome3/gnome-shell everywhere now, and it's a fantastic stack. Javascript as a first-tier language == sign me up. Haters gonna hate.

2 versions worse? (1)

gauauu (649169) | more than 3 years ago | (#36331880)

Oh dear. Thunderbird 3 was considerably worse than 2 (slower, uglier UI, they completely broke the search bar). How much worse is version 5 going to be than 3?

Re:2 versions worse? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36333198)

I disagree, I thought 3 was better. The search function is much improved. While still not as good as the gmail search, it's better than Outlook used to be.

Re:2 versions worse? (1)

chesky (1117831) | more than 3 years ago | (#36339682)

Version 4 was so terrible they never released it; version 5 has wrapped around again and become good.

Not interesting anymore (1)

ErikWestrup (1325139) | more than 3 years ago | (#36332976)

Today I don't care. Because today is the day I ditched TB for mutt + offlineimap (and it's quite awesome)!

Don't knock it before you've tried it (1)

baptiste (256004) | more than 3 years ago | (#36336864)

I've used TB forever. Every once in a while it would bug me and I'd switch to something else, then find myself coming back to it. Even after moving to Google Apps - I stuck with TBird on my desktop. Feels more natural - I can't get used to GMails concept of tagging everything - I end up deleting sent mail all the time trashing a conversation (yeah I know PEBKAC). So I've generally stuck with TBird and though 3.x was a decent upgrade and has worked well with multiple IMAP accounts tied to it. I use GMail's web interface on teh netbook and in a pinch elsewhere and it's fine too. 5.x is intriguing. If you've tried Opera's browser based email client, you'll see some similarities. It feels like a web browser more than ever, and not in a bad way. That said - I wish I could hide the menu bar and drop down to just the buttons and tabs. Beyond that - whoever suggested the Conversations plugin above - great suggestion. Give it a try - it does some cool things inspired by Mac Mail like unified inboxes and more (At least I *think* that's conversations - might be TBird 5) Whichever - you can flip between folder views - All Folders, Unread Folders, Unified Folders, and much more. Try it if you haven't. It's pretty sweet. Took a while for it to sort through the gobs of email in various accounts - but this is like a whole new email client. Tbird 5 and Conversations 2,0 is absolutely worth a look.

TB was not enough (1)

cenkozan (1784004) | more than 3 years ago | (#36337116)

As of today, I am looking for more Outlook-like abilities from TB, there is no built-in calendar, there is no to-do lists. I have to look for other solutions like Google, but I hate the corporation thinking of G. Hope the enhancements I am hoping for arrives with this new v. Already downloading it.

Re:TB was not enough (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36338128)

no cal or todo after 10 years! Zimbra.

Re:TB was not enough (1)

TemporalBeing (803363) | more than 3 years ago | (#36349322)

As of today, I am looking for more Outlook-like abilities from TB, there is no built-in calendar, there is no to-do lists. I have to look for other solutions like Google, but I hate the corporation thinking of G. Hope the enhancements I am hoping for arrives with this new v. Already downloading it.

Use the Lightening add-on; they're suppose to provide it with TB at some point - or at least they were making a good try to do so with TB3. Pretty much does what you want. I've got a full Calendar - both off-line provided by TB+Lightening and on-line, synchronized calendars (iCal, CalDAV, etc.). There's also a task list.

Thunderbird 5: old news (1)

Zoxed (676559) | more than 3 years ago | (#36337586)

I thought that was already in Earth orbit with John on board when I was a kid :-)

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