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Daily Sony Hacking Occurs On Schedule

Soulskill posted more than 3 years ago | from the at-least-they're-consistent dept.

Security 353

jjp9999 writes "LulzSec was compromised and a member of the group, Robert Cavanaugh, was arrested by the FBI on June 6. Meanwhile, LulzSec hacked Sony again, this time leaking the Sony Developer Network source code through file sharing websites."

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Sounds like they're got inside access (4, Interesting)

GodfatherofSoul (174979) | more than 3 years ago | (#36355592)

Not a network guy, but if they're repeating these hacks so quickly and with such regularity I imagine their backdoor is still up.

Re:Sounds like they're got inside access (5, Funny)

NoSleepDemon (1521253) | more than 3 years ago | (#36355632)

I think Sony's chief failure in this whole incident is that they believe their customers like to take it in the back-door as frequently and as messily as they do.

a mess of santorum (0)

AliasMarlowe (1042386) | more than 3 years ago | (#36355924)

I think Sony's chief failure in this whole incident is that they believe their customers like to take it in the back-door as frequently and as messily as they do.

Sony's other failure is in not making any products for cleaning up the santorum [urbandictionary.com] which would result from thus violating their customers. Perhaps they only want santorum [wiktionary.org] lovers as customers.

Re:Sounds like they're got inside access (4, Interesting)

tripleevenfall (1990004) | more than 3 years ago | (#36356026)

Well, no, I think this is one of the few times that the "terrorists", so to speak, actually won.

LulzSec said they would do this as revenge for Sony taking legal action against someone for jailbreaking the PS3. LulzSec has successfully cost Sony far, far more than jailbreaking ever would have.

Re:Sounds like they're got inside access (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36356138)

Let's put this as bluntly as possible : Sony's mistake here was in deciding to rush a job that shouldn't have been rushed. They value having the pSN up and running over their customers privacy. They first tried to ignore the problem, then closed the PSN down when they couldn't do that, then brought it back up before they had all the holes plugged. Maybe it's time Sony takes the PSN down and leaves it down until it is ready to come back up?

Re:Sounds like they're got inside access (4, Insightful)

MozeeToby (1163751) | more than 3 years ago | (#36355698)

Maybe you didn't read the earlier articles about just how horrible Sony's security setup is. Here's a hint: It's every bit bad enough that a dedicated group could find a different way into the system every day for weeks on end.

Re:Sounds like they're got inside access (1)

Gravatron (716477) | more than 3 years ago | (#36355808)

It's not the same system though. they are hacking different departments, who obviously don't have any sort of centralized network authority. I don't think they have been able to hit the same department twice.

Re:Sounds like they're got inside access (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36355912)

Maybe you didn't read the earlier articles about just how horrible Sony's security setup is. Here's a hint: It's every bit bad enough that a dedicated group could find a different way into the system every day for weeks on end.

Yes, but think how much money they saved on IT!

Re:Sounds like they're got inside access (4, Insightful)

TubeSteak (669689) | more than 3 years ago | (#36356080)

Maybe you didn't read the earlier articles about just how horrible Sony's security setup is. Here's a hint: It's every bit bad enough that a dedicated group could find a different way into the system every day for weeks on end.

I don't think you're doing anyone a favor when you present Sony as a monolithic corporation.
It's not as simple as Sony vetting one security setup and replicating it across all websites tagged as Sony.
Sony is made of of endless domestic and international subcorporations, each with its own (poor) security setup.

At least these hacks are a return to the previous trend of defacements, revenge, and lulz,
as opposed to the last few years of organized crime, ID theft, and renting out botnets.

Nope, Safety is a Myth (4, Interesting)

IBitOBear (410965) | more than 3 years ago | (#36356082)

Just like the TSA hasn't stopped a single act of terror, only passengers have done that; most security measures cannot stop a determined professional.

Safety and Security are largely mythological, the concepts are sold to a public that feels the need to exist with impunity.

In point of fact, it is largely manners that keeps people safe and secure. Most of us do not act on our darker natures because it would be rude.

Sony has demonstrated that they don't care about being well-mannered, and that they honestly believe that technology can keep them safe. They believe in DRM and they believe that they have the right to change a deal they have already made as if they were Darth Vader. They believe in their own Empire and they are willing to use any means necessary to maintain their grasp.

In point of fact, the technological community is simply having a very high immune response to this bad actor in their midst.

If Sony were to just come out, apologize for being douche-bags and promise never to do it again, they attacks would taper off quickly. They don't even have to mean it.

For all that the *IAA have been idiots and evil, they didn't mess with the technologists as a whole, so they have gotten a pass so far. They also don't actually do anything, so they have been impossible to strike.

Sony, as a member of *IAA(s) _and_ as a first person actor in technology via the PS3 etc, _and_ having stepped far across the line with the Hotz thing, has simply taken the first hit of lightning.

Thing is, the community at large has now learned that they _can_ make a company pay. The frontier has been opened. The Streisand Effect is real, and it will, sadly, take the business world a little longer to learn that "The Angry Villagers Rule" is real as well.

The torches are alight and the pitchforks are out and waving.

In the technological circles, the technologists are peasants, but they do feed the nation and they do strike back.

Companies need to rediscover their manners.

Re:Nope, Safety is a Myth (3, Insightful)

memyselfandeye (1849868) | more than 3 years ago | (#36356202)

Wait what? You talk about 'bad manners' as agents of malcontent.

I don't know where you come from, but I would consider it 'bad manners' to crack a security system just because you don't like a person, organization, or company... just as I would consider it 'bad manners' to punch someone in the face because I think they have 'bad manners.' Isn't it 'bad manners' to force someone to do something they would rather not... such as change their password because you just stole it from them?

I don't know of a single nation that forces people to buy Playstations, Sony Music, or Sony TVs. If you don't like it, don't associate with them. Anything else is 'bad manners.'

Re:Sounds like they're got inside access (2)

History's Coming To (1059484) | more than 3 years ago | (#36356110)

Either that or they sold something useful to the biggest geeks in the world and then took it away, but that would be daft.

Re:Sounds like they're got inside access (1)

_KiTA_ (241027) | more than 3 years ago | (#36356360)

Not a network guy, but if they're repeating these hacks so quickly and with such regularity I imagine their backdoor is still up.

Nope, you're giving Sony too much credit. This is a basic SQL Injection Hack, one that every one of Sony's servers are vulnerable to and that they still haven't patched.

I almost feel sorry for Sony (4, Funny)

v1 (525388) | more than 3 years ago | (#36355594)

no wait, I don't. Get me some popcorn, this is a good show.

Re:I almost feel sorry for Sony (5, Insightful)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 3 years ago | (#36355722)

I just imagine someone hacking their presentation at E3 while they're live onstage. That would be some serious lulz.

Re:I almost feel sorry for Sony (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36355806)

Shhh! You'll tip them off to our plan, fool!

you attack its weak point for massive damage (4, Funny)

Thud457 (234763) | more than 3 years ago | (#36355960)

heaven forbid they hack the presentation and the CEO starts blindly reading blather about a giant enemy crab off the teleprompter. That would be mortifying.

Re:you attack its weak point for massive damage (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36356218)

If by mortifying you mean laughing so hard you die laughing funny then yes, mortifying.

Re:I almost feel sorry for Sony (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36356248)

If I were involved in organizing E3 I'd revoke their invite. Having Sony doing a presentation is a good way to turn a small target into a big one.

Re:I almost feel sorry for Sony (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36355742)

I still sorta kinda feel bad for the poor bastards who'll have to fix this mess.

Re:I almost feel sorry for Sony (1)

the_hellspawn (908071) | more than 3 years ago | (#36355928)

I don't that is a person hired for at least 5 years. that will stimulate the world economy and produce a job market and get me out of this sad crappy job I have now. Keep it up Anon!

Re:I almost feel sorry for Sony (2)

theshowmecanuck (703852) | more than 3 years ago | (#36355988)

Wouldn't it be ironic if they used a root kit? Or would that be poetic justice?

Re:I almost feel sorry for Sony (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36356124)

it would be ironic if the rootkit was already in place before lulzsec came along...

I lost track (1)

joeflies (529536) | more than 3 years ago | (#36355624)

so how does any of this relate to removing OtherOS anymore?

Re:I lost track (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36355732)

Just in the sense of "Fuck Sony".

Re:I lost track (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36355794)

so how does any of this relate to removing OtherOS anymore?

You don't let people hack your consoles, they find something else to hack. Idle hands and all that. :)

Re:I lost track (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36355824)

It's not back yet. I imagine if they replaced the feature, much of this would go away. But, they've also claimed it has to do with the Geohot case, which is settled, so maybe this will just continue until it's not fun anymore. It's also probably worth noting that many of these hackers were never motivated by any sense of principal and just wanted to have some fun...

Re:I lost track (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36355826)

It doesn't, it never did. The crackers attempt to attack everything that has online access (take for instance apache.org [google.com] , or the redhat infrastructure [google.com] ). Sony was just cought with its pants down. The people that cheer for the haxors must be the biggest idiots ever.

Re:I lost track (1)

shadowfaxcrx (1736978) | more than 3 years ago | (#36355990)

At this point it's the schoolyard bully syndrome. One bully beats up the rich kid and suddenly 6 others run over to kick him in the head while he's on the ground. It's debatable whether any of the new arrivals give a damn about the purported causes of the original hack. Sony's on the ropes from a security standpoint, and it sure is fun to keep punching.

That said, I have difficulty mustering up much sympathy for Sony, because it is possible to secure a network so that it is not as wildly hackable as Sony's apparently is. Lockheed proved that a couple weeks ago when hackers who were doubtless employed by foreign governments tried to get in to their systems, and got absolutely nothing. That one of the Sony hacks (I've forgotten which one now - I can't keep them all straight anymore) was apparently pulled off by entering code into a database field is pretty clear evidence that Sony isn't taking security very seriously.

In my opinion, companies that request and store customer data which could lead to identity theft should be required by law to properly protect that data. And if they can't do it, they should be prohibited by law from having a business presence in this country for a set amount of time. You want my credit card number, you'd better damn well put it in a (virtual) hardened vault and not let anyone get to it.

Re:I lost track (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36356094)

No, its pent up rage from all of the shit sony forced on its customers over the years. To use your bully analogy, its like a bully constantly picking on a smaller kid for a long time, and then causing the kid to snap and beat the ever living shit out of the bully.

Re:I lost track (1)

satoshi1 (794000) | more than 3 years ago | (#36356302)

Except it's really easy for people to avoid Sony's bullying. All they have to do is not involve themselves in Sony products or services. Ever. That is so easy.

Re:I lost track (1)

creat3d (1489345) | more than 3 years ago | (#36356286)

This isn't a schoolyard, the 6 other kids know full well who Sony is. As for being prohibited by law to do business if they can't handle personal information, obviously the kids are more effective than the judicial system, in this particular case.

TFA Is Sparse On Information (4, Informative)

WrongSizeGlass (838941) | more than 3 years ago | (#36355634)

TFA doesn't tell us much except that Sony got hacked and some guy got arrested. The summary sums up the whole thing.

Re:TFA Is Sparse On Information (5, Funny)

Nrrqshrr (1879148) | more than 3 years ago | (#36355676)

For once the summary is good enough. We can't complain.

Re:We can't complain (1)

Ezekiel68 (652736) | more than 3 years ago | (#36356044)

You must be new here.

Arrested (4, Insightful)

Hatta (162192) | more than 3 years ago | (#36355644)

Guess the seven proxies weren't enough.

How did this arrest go down? This is clearly a more interesting development then yet another Sony hack. Hopefully there will be more information forthcoming.

Re:Arrested (3, Interesting)

Delgul (515042) | more than 3 years ago | (#36355760)

Might be they arrested one of the seven proxies? ;-)

Re:Arrested (1)

Threni (635302) | more than 3 years ago | (#36356200)

If I were the FBI I'd have plenty of servers, probably install people at ISPs tracing absolutely all traffic, run TOR exit nodes, run proxies etc.

Some more info (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36355906)

The article is pretty bad:

One member of the group, Robert Cavanaugh, was apprehended and taken into custody by the FBI after an apparent counter hack, according to an internal chat log from their private IRC server, posted through SecList, a network mapper website.

SecList? I think they meant the full-disclosure mailing list, which happens to be archived by seclists.org, which happens to be a "sister site" of insecure.org (the home of the nmap network mapper).

Anyway, here is the relevant post [seclists.org]

Robert Cavanaugh (Not Apart of Lulzsec) (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36355668)

This kid isn't apart of LulzSec, he was in the process of being recruited. As you can see his arrest as no effect on LulzSec.

Re:Robert Cavanaugh (Not Apart of Lulzsec) (4, Funny)

mirix (1649853) | more than 3 years ago | (#36355724)

That would mean he is apart of lulzsec - not that that makes him a part of it, or anything like that.

Story innacurate according to the group (5, Informative)

Capeman (589717) | more than 3 years ago | (#36355672)

The posted details here: http://pastebin.com/yut4P6qN [pastebin.com]

Re:Story innacurate according to the group (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 3 years ago | (#36355796)

Parent is not goatse. Parent link appears to not contain any horrible images.

Re:Story innacurate according to the group (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36355908)

Ascii goatse isn't that bad anyways.

Re:Story innacurate according to the group (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36355922)

That proves that it can't possbile be legitimate!

Re:Story innacurate according to the group (1)

BlueScreenO'Life (1813666) | more than 3 years ago | (#36356070)

Speak for yourself, I loathe those crappy facebook/twitter icons.

Bad Porn (1)

MonsterTrimble (1205334) | more than 3 years ago | (#36355692)

I'm not sure which is more frightening - the fact these guys backdoor Sony repeatedly or that Sony doesn't seem to want to stop them.

For the record:
1) Yes, I am aware of the double entendres.
2) No, I do not believe rape is funny.
3) No, I am not homophobic.

Re:Bad Porn (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36355758)

Of course you're not homophobic; you're a faggot.

That said, I'm not a homophobes, I just hate cocksucking dudes. And who wants a rod shoved in their ass? EXIT ONLY SICK MOTHERFUCKERS! (those goes for females as well)

Re:Bad Porn (2)

creat3d (1489345) | more than 3 years ago | (#36355772)

I beg to disagree. Rape jokes concerning Sony ARE funny.

Re:Bad Porn (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36355816)

I'll laugh when it happens to you you fucking bitch. You like rape so much? I hope you get AIDS and die. Shit like this plays off into the kinds of fucking psychopaths we have killing and raping at will and you're only feeding that fire. FUCK YOU STRAIGHT TO HELL!!!!!

Re:Bad Porn (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36355948)

Really? some psycho is reading slashdot comments looking for the ok to rape. Is that what his defense will be, some dude on slashdot said it was ok to rape sony so i though it would be ok to rape people. I am sorry you were raped, but i doubt the person who raped you (or your mother) need any justification for doing so, most just do it for the lulz anyway.

George Carlin would like a word with you... (1)

Pyrus.mg (1152215) | more than 3 years ago | (#36356084)

"Ohhh, some people don't like you to talk like that. Ohh, some people like to shut you up for saying those things.
You know that. Lots of people. Lots of groups in this country want to tell you how to talk.
Tell you what you can't talk about. Well, sometimes they'll say, well you can talk about something but you can't joke about it.
Say you can't joke about something because it's not funny. Comedians run into that shit all the time.
Like rape. They'll say, "you can't joke about rape. Rape's not funny."
I say, "fuck you, I think it's hilarious. How do you like that?"
I can prove to you that rape is funny. Picture Porky Pig raping Elmer Fudd.
See, hey why do you think they call him "Porky," eh? I know what you're going to say.
"Elmer was asking for it. Elmer was coming on to Porky.
Porky couldn't help himself, he got a hard- on, he got horney, he lost control, he went out of his mind."
A lot of men talk like that. A lot of men think that way. They think it's the woman's fault.
They like to blame the rape on the woman. Say, "she had it coming, she was wearing a short skirt."
These guys think women ought to go to prison for being cock teasers. Don't seem fair to me.
Don't seem right, but you can joke about it. I believe you can joke about anything.
It all depends on how you construct the joke. What the exaggeration is. What the exaggeration is.
Because every joke needs one exaggeration. Every joke needs one thing to be way out of proportion.
Give you an example. Did you ever see a news story like this in the paper?
Every now and then you run into a story, says, "some guy broke into a house, stole a lot of things, and while he was in there, he raped an 81 year old woman."
And I'm thinking to myself, "WHY??? What the fuck kind of a social life does this guy have?"
I want to say, "why did you do that?" "Well she was coming on to me. We were dancing and I got horney.
Hey, she was asking for it, she had on a tight bathrobe." I'll say, "Jesus Christ, be a little fucking selective next time will you?"

Now, speaking of rape, do you know what I wonder? I wonder is there more rape at the equator or the north pole.
These are the kind of things I think about when I'm sitting home alone and the power goes out.
I wonder is there more rape at the equator or the north pole. I mean per capita, I know the populations are different.
Most people think it's the equator, I think it's the north pole.
People think it's the equator because it's hot down there, they don't wear a lot of clothing, guys can see women's tits, they get horney and there's a lot of fucking going on.
That's exactly why there's less rape at the equator. Because there's a lot of fucking going on.
You can tell there's a lot of fucking at the equator, take a look at the population figures.
Billions of people live near the equator. How many Eskimos do we have?
Thirty? Thirty five? No one's getting laid at the north pole, it's too fucking cold.
Guys say to their wives, "hey tonight honey, huh, tonight, huh?"
"Are you crazy? The wind chill factor is three hundred below."
These guys are deprived. Their horney. Their pent up. Every now and then...p-pmm...they bust out, they got to rape somebody.

Now, the biggest problem an Eskimo rapist has, trying to get wet leather leggings off a woman who is kicking.
Did you ever try to get leather pants off of someone who doesn't want to take them off?
You would lose your hard-on in the process.
Up at the north pole you dick would shrivel up like a stack of dimes.
That's another thing I wonder.
I wonder, does a rapist have a hard-on when he leaves the house in the morning,
or does he develop it during the day while he's walking around looking for somebody.
These are the kind of thoughts that kept me out of the really good schools. "

Re:Bad Porn (1, Interesting)

Gravatron (716477) | more than 3 years ago | (#36355842)

Sony isn't just one company, it's more like a holding group. The different parts rarely seem to talk to each other, and most likely have no centralized network authority. Saying 'Sony was hacked again' isn't really accurate, it's 'a division/company belonging to the sony group was hacked'. I don't believe they have been successful in hitting the same target twice.

Re:Bad Porn (4, Insightful)

xMrFishx (1956084) | more than 3 years ago | (#36356032)

Although it also comes with the downside of being a holding group, umbrella naming. To Average Joe (via the sensationalist media), Sony X and Sony Y are the same thing. As it all masquerades under the name Sony, hacking Sony Music and Sony TV is essentially the same thing, even if, to the rest of us, it isn't. Ultimately though, I find the whole thing very funny and am rather enjoying watching.

This Robert Cavanaugh? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36355734)

A quick Google picked up a Robert Cavanaugh that was a Software Engineer. Think this is the guy who got gotted?

Re:This Robert Cavanaugh? (0)

creat3d (1489345) | more than 3 years ago | (#36355786)

Allegedly not involved: http://pastebin.com/yut4P6qN [pastebin.com] Not sure if this is legit.

Alledged Pictures of Cavanaugh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36355740)

Saw this posted online: screenshots and pictures of Cavanaugh [89.248.164.63] (AKA xyz).

poor, silly sony (1)

eyenot (102141) | more than 3 years ago | (#36355822)

Don't they realize they would gain much more by apologizing for and desisting against GeoHot than they would be trying to sentimentally appease investors who are already losing their asses due to Sony's complete unawareness of ALL simple, cultural matters related to information and security? All they've done this whole episode is show their complete idiocy: in failing to understand the proper and graceful way to accept having a device defeated by a hacker; failing to understand that hackers are serious about their claims and abilities; failing to understand most of the underlying principles not only of technology being used but information theory itself and pertinent concepts like retention of information and where it applies to real-world security models such as trust-based networks. It seems nobody these days in any position of much worth or prominence has even a clue about the workings and mechanisms of governance, of security, of infrastructure, any of it. Sony is just the epitome of what the generations have come down to and how very little they're capable of maintaining rational thought and in-the-now presence. This disgraceful, wretched form of half-witted aggression against normal, common people has become pandemic amongst those wherein whom political and economic power is found consolidated, and their very lowbrow and disdainful perception of what the average human being constitutes in their need and capability is almost villain like. There are very few people amongst either the completely unaffected (yet exposed to the story via media) and those directly affected (Sony's clientele and consumer-base) who are rooting for the company in these recent matters, meanwhile, the company seeks to appease investors instead of the common person or their clientele, showing almost complete apathy towards those who have proffered substantial sums for broken-down old "services". This also goes to show you what the common person is reduced to in terms of buyer awareness and consumer savvy, that this decrepit network -- apparently run by people barely associated with the concepts involved beyond marketing and financing -- is one of the widest-selling entertainment services in the modern world. And yet Sony still manages to fail to find a friend in the world! Bewildering!

Re:poor, silly sony (2)

Dachannien (617929) | more than 3 years ago | (#36355834)

Don't they realize they would gain much more by apologizing for and desisting against GeoHot

What part of "settled out of court" don't you understand?

Re:poor, silly sony (1)

eyenot (102141) | more than 3 years ago | (#36355962)

Oh, they did? That's what I get for barely paying attention. All I've been seeing is Sony issuing ridiculous declarations, lying to investors and consumers about their technical expertise, etc. I guess getting bit in the ass probably moved them through court a bit faster than I would expect them to be. Well, I guess we'll see what happens when they apologise.

Frankly, if the (net) hackers don't lay off after the public apology that's coming up, I would have to agree with another user here that they might deserve further police action. As much as I hate to say it, despite the law's early encounters with hacking involving totally impolitic and heavy-handed approach, I don't relish the idea of aimless and ultimately fruitless hacking that's done with no sense of greater purpose except as a thin facade for nuisance. They'll just make demonizing DIY hackers like GeoHot more presentable if they keep it up.

Re:poor, silly sony (2)

krelian (525362) | more than 3 years ago | (#36355856)

Paragraphs, learn how to use them.

Re:poor, silly sony (1)

haderytn (1232484) | more than 3 years ago | (#36355918)

There is a difference between knowing how to do something, and actually doing it.

What is the point, really? (2)

mark-t (151149) | more than 3 years ago | (#36355874)

I mean, these intrusions are happening with such frequency that I can't imagine there's still a point to be proven... plus, reading about it all the time on slashdot is starting to feel like seeing a headline for a traffic light changing color.

Irony would be... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36355882)

If Sony's own old root kit was used on them for all these infiltrations.

Go FBI! (3, Insightful)

Haeleth (414428) | more than 3 years ago | (#36355894)

Seriously, I expect this will be modded into oblivion because Slashdot hates Sony and loves anyone who sticks it to the man (see also: Wikileaks, Anonymous, etc).

But they are criminals, and therefore I for one am glad that the FBI has had some little success in tracking them down, and look forward eagerly to the day when the ringleaders are forced to defend their actions in court.

The fact that they are committing crimes against someone you hate cannot justify those crimes. Indeed it must not, because turning a blind eye to crime just because you don't like the victim leads to mob rule. It is the antithesis of the rule of law on which our society is founded, which protects our rights as well as Sony's. That's one slope that history has proven time and time again to be very slippery indeed.

And, hey, maybe they'll put up such a good defence that the jury will refuse to convict them and the balance of power between corporations and common people will be shifted, and that would probably be good too. But it should be done in courts or congress, not by vigilante mobs deciding to lynch a corporation that offended them.

Re:Go FBI! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36355946)

I agree 100%.

Bless them.

Re:Go FBI! (2, Interesting)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 3 years ago | (#36356016)

And, hey, maybe they'll put up such a good defence that the jury will refuse to convict them and the balance of power between corporations and common people will be shifted, and that would probably be good too. But it should be done in courts or congress, not by vigilante mobs deciding to lynch a corporation that offended them.

Does it hurt to be that naive?

Sure they are breaking the law, and they are probably bad people, but this is like watching Stalin fight Hitler. No matter who loses we win. In reality since they attacked Sony expect jail sentences, had they gone after a small company the FBI would not even care.

Re:Go FBI! (1)

Lemmy Caution (8378) | more than 3 years ago | (#36356056)

The people who are going to get hurt are those whose personal information has been released, and who may suffer identity theft or worse as a result. Again, like Hitler vs Stalin, it's the millions of people who got caught in the middle who suffer.

Re:Go FBI! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36356022)

You of course are 99% right. But at what point do things get so stacked against the little guy that vigilante is the only thing left? How far away are we from this, when Sony has bought infinite copyright extensions and other legislation?

Not always black and white (4, Insightful)

manekineko2 (1052430) | more than 3 years ago | (#36356024)

Indeed it must not, because turning a blind eye to crime just because you don't like the victim leads to mob rule. It is the antithesis of the rule of law on which our society is founded, which protects our rights as well as Sony's. That's one slope that history has proven time and time again to be very slippery indeed.

I don't think the history has conclusively proven at all whether the rule of law enforced blindly without regards to who is right or wrong is a good thing.

For example, the Underground Railroad illegally helping escaped slaves, or every revolution in the history of the world.

Obviously the importance of the cause is different here, but it helps make my point clearer by using high-profile examples.

Re:Go FBI! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36356028)

i dont think people here are cheering for the hackers as part of a mob mentality. we don't disagree with things simply because they are illegal - we disagree with things based on their merits.

this is sony getting some payback for all the years of taking dumps on the consumers who buy their things. its just fun to sit and watch and be glad someone has the bravery & skills to do it. hey, we'd all help if we could.

Re:Go FBI! (1)

Thruen (753567) | more than 3 years ago | (#36356040)

I enjoy this not because I hate Sony (although I'll never buy another Sony product) but because Sony has engaged in what should be considered criminal activity themselves, and got away with it. The actions against Sony are a form of vigilante justice, they're being punished because of what they did. And yes, the things they've done are wrong. The rootkit mess was awful, and giving customers a choice between two things they've already paid for (second OS or online play) is stealing. Yes, stealing, in a very real sense. And then they went after a man who sought to give back what Sony stole. I know this is very one-sided, but it's what the situation boils down to. I don't agree with the things Lulzsec has done because it's damaging to innocent people as well, but I'll be happy to watch it continue because I do feel that Sony deserves to be punished and I don't see that happening through the proper channels. I'd also love to see Lulzsec go after organizations like the RIAA and the MPAA, not because it's okay to steal music, but because it's not okay to have absurd punitive fines over downloading something that, in almost all cases, didn't amount to any losses because the truth is people wouldn't just go buy everything they download if they couldn't pirate it.

Re:Go FBI! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36356058)

Good old fashioned jury nullification.

Re:Go FBI! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36356066)

We don't know whether it's a legit arrest or whether the FBI fucked up again.

Re:Go FBI! (1)

CherniyVolk (513591) | more than 3 years ago | (#36356074)

But they are criminals, and therefore I for one am glad that the FBI has had some little success in tracking them down

You can not be serious Haeleth. By that rationale, any time a tyrant needs to gain your approval he only needs to make any opposing
act a criminal offense and you'll be certain to point out that "but they are criminals!".

You sir, need to read up on some philosophy, particularly Thoreau's Civil Disobedience. Regardless of government, that essay
applies to all authority as far as I'm concerned. To hell with you if you wish to ignore these hackers' obligation to resist and defy
while labeling them as crooks. For this, your post ought to be modded down. I'd have a good mind to pitch in on their effort, I'm
already rather adamant about our position as I have refused to update my PS3; I could care less about a trash proprietary blueray
feature ('new' bluerays don't work because I haven't updated my PS3), I could care less about their Sony Playstation Network. My
PS3 still has the Alternative OS feature; and Sony can suck my dick, it's my property not theirs they forfeited ALL rights to it the
moment they said my 400 dollars was fair trade at BestBuy. I don't give a flying rats ass what "laws" may disagree, I refuse to
acknowledge the authority of any person in defiance of my position and I'll break any damn law to preserve what I know
is right.

To hell with people like you. To hell with your rationale supporting Sony. To hell with your damn post.

Re:Go FBI! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36356108)

Apparently you didn't see the post where LulzSec said that the FBI arrest was a person that is not a part of their group.

http://pastebin.com/yut4P6qN

Btw, I believe what is occurring is a level of socially-accepted, and due to socially understood warranting facts, vandalism. Most people on slashdot understand, and often agree with the motives for the actions, and thus they permit or praise it. I personally like Sony. I don't like some of the things they've done, but I have as a whole been happy with the product I get for the dollar I pay. I would like to see them attempt a more open approach to customer relations and such, but I know it may not happen and I know that when I vote with my dollars for Sony, I get what they offer.

Re:Go FBI! (1)

memyselfandeye (1849868) | more than 3 years ago | (#36356112)

You are correct sir. I should be able to park a dump truck full of gold anywhere in the world and know that it will be safe. Likewise, I should be able to create an account with and not worry about criminals misusing that information. Criminals, weather premeditated or not, always think that "because I could, I should." It doesn't matter if you are stealing my truck full o' gold because I was stupid, or stealing my identity because you can. It isn't yours, and you have no privileges to access it....

Unfortunately, the world has criminals and my utopia doesn't exist. Well, it does in my town but the Internet doesn't end at the county borders. I can leave the door unlocked, let my neighbors borrow the car, and leave money on a counter... I can't leave my passwords lying around on the internet because of yo-yos like LulzSec.

Re:Go FBI! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36356118)

And, hey, maybe they'll put up such a good defence that the jury will refuse to convict them and the balance of power between corporations and common people will be shifted, and that would probably be good too. But it should be done in courts or congress, not by vigilante mobs deciding to lynch a corporation that offended them.

But the issues only get to go to court because some little guy does something that the Corporations have convinced legislators to make illegal by paying lobbyist millions of dollars. The "mob" does have the resources to fight the corporations ... RIAA ... MIAA ... millions on lobyists ... but they can't be bothered to pay royalties to the artists that make them the money ? (50 million owed in back royaties according to Candian lawsuit - this is the amount the Recording companies ADMIT they owe !!!) So hooray for the hackers who have the cojones to go for the gold....

Re:Go FBI! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36356148)

...antithesis of the rule of law on which our society is founded

I stopped reading right there. Where have you been for the last 10 years? You do know that the fourth amendment has been thoroughly thrown out the door, right? And the Geneva convention with it. But go right ahead and believe the Disney version.

Re:Go FBI! (1)

Just Some Guy (3352) | more than 3 years ago | (#36356168)

I'll give a rat's ass when Sony is held to the same legal standards as Joe Hacker.

Re:Go FBI! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36356192)

"lynch"

Really?!? Do you actually know the meaning of that word? I know you're intending to use it somewhat metaphorically, but it would be kind of like describing a mugging as genocide.

And while it's illegal, it's hard to defend Sony's actions - they're essentially stealing the functionality of PS3's by removing functionality they had, in at minimum an unofficial capacity, promised their users.

Is that illegal? Is harassing, someone who broke their security and described how for others to do the same on their own hardware legal too?

It's hard to feel very sorry for Sony - and to even feel their opponents are doing something so very much worse than what Sony did itself. It's had to gin up much outrage that the "hackers" are even really doing much in the way of breaking the law. They're a big hassle, for sure. But it doesn't seem they're being more than the death of a thousand paper cuts.

I think the law, in cases like these, is too broadly written and takes too little into account - which is why the law is being flouted and broken.

It's sort of like penalizing Torrent/Napster file sharers in a similar vein to that of commercial infringer. Sure, that's what the law says, but the law is simply wrong, both morally and in any sensible form.

When the law is viewed as unjust, people ignore it, and I think it's a little crazy to exhort them to obey it.

All that said, I think the laws should be changed - but there again Sony will be out doing its best to make sure those changed laws are just as unfair as the current set - and given their reach, cash, and resulting power - that imbalance is likely to continue.

It's kind of like the moniker "terrorist."

If you're losing, and are under powered - you resort to the battle you can perhaps win.
The side with lots of power and resources immediately cries "Terrorist!"

What both sides mean is: "Dammit - I want to win. You're supposed to play my way!" ...and they always wait until the other side decides to do "right" before they'll commit to doing "right" themselves - which means exactly never.

---
Finally I take strong exception to (what appears ot be) a generalization of WikiLeaks and Anonymous. They are fighting for the true values of The Republic. When the gvmt takes steps to shield itself from all accountability and makes any who expose its despicable actions criminals - when the gvmt does that - I think it loses all right to govern and the "rule of law" when applied to the government is stood on it's head.

When the government uses "states secrets" laws to make it's own criminal behavior unaccountable - well that government has no right to enforce any laws. It is, by its very nature, lawless.

Re:Go FBI! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36356232)

Yeah, whatever Mr. Sherriff of Nottingham.

Re:Go FBI! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36356260)

I agree. Let the rule of law reign.

Of course, it can't. Corporations are untouchable, and they bend the law to their profits.

Many huge corporations, Sony in particular, consider themselves beyond the law, and the law seems to agree, so let them be taken down by whatever means necessary.

I'll feel bad for them when they stop pillaging and raping our culture by forcing through abusive copyright laws, stop hacking their own customers with rootkits and feature-removing, non-optional 'updates,' and conspiring to prevent consumers from using their purchased digital property and physical technology with DRM that does nothing prevent consumers from exercising their rights

Vigilante justice isn't pretty, but it's better than no justice.

Re:Go FBI! (1)

luther349 (645380) | more than 3 years ago | (#36356268)

conserding its going to take mobs to lynch certen elected officals to get the point across your point is moot. screaming and yelling gets you nowhere other then some ritch fatcats laughs. the problem is even softwhere/hardware companys like sony have gotten into the same mindset as the walmarts and riaa of the world. treat everyone like shit lie cheat and steal from both are employees and custmers and do not to forget to treat everyone like there going to steal from us. and guess what all said companys are still allowed to operate hear ion the usa.

Protects our rights as well as Sony's? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36356310)

HAHAHAHAHA good one! I laughed out loud.

Individual rights always lose when pitted against corporate rights. Duh.

I get the sense that Lulz is related to Anon (1)

sandytaru (1158959) | more than 3 years ago | (#36355932)

- or at least has folks with the same mentality, even if they're not from /b/ or 4chan. Although the Anons I know in real life are proud to admit their affiliation (to people who are okay to know), I also suspect that members of Lulz are quite okay being totally silent on what their are doing, considering how dangerous is it.

If nothing else, this has provided me the impetus to go and change all my passwords.

Re:I get the sense that Lulz is related to Anon (1)

creat3d (1489345) | more than 3 years ago | (#36355992)

Anon does not equal 4chan.

Re:I get the sense that Lulz is related to Anon (1)

Thud457 (234763) | more than 3 years ago | (#36356060)

well, seeing that their self-chosen moniker is lulzsec, I would assume that excludes the moralfags

Re:I get the sense that Lulz is related to Anon (1)

Thruen (753567) | more than 3 years ago | (#36356090)

Seems that way. I've been wondering if Lulzsec is just the banner Anons fly under when they want to do things more harmful to the general public than Anonymous would want to associate themselves with.

Disjoined from reality. (1)

Jibekn (1975348) | more than 3 years ago | (#36355982)

From TFA:

"SonyPictures.com was owned by a very simple SQL injection, one of the most primitive and common vulnerabilities, as we should all know by now. From a single injection, we accessed EVERYTHING. Why do you put such faith in a company that allows itself to become open to these simple attacks?”

Are these hackers this disjointed from reality they believe this? Does everyone wear a bullet proof vest 100% of the time? Guess its their fault they get shot for simply walking down the street.

Blaming Sony for these hacks are in the same league as blaming a rape victim for the assault because she was dressed and acting like a slut. Sure Sony is an evil corporation, but you never get to blame the victim of a crime, for the crime.

No means no, whether its a girl telling you no when you try and cop a feel, or a cooperation saying no to using their service unless you play by their rules.

Re:Disjoined from reality. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36356030)

If bank of america leaves my deposit in a cardboard box in the middle of the floor, unlocked and unprotected, then they are culpable when that money is gone.

Why? Because I expected them to take steps to secure my money in a hardened bank vault, surveillance, security guards and all that.

I expect the same online. Sony took everyones credit card information, and left it in a cardboard box out in the open.

There are PCI compliance rules for a reason. Sonys culpability is in the billions, and I'm just waiting for Visa/MC to pull their ability to process cards (and am shocked it hasnt happened)

Re:Disjoined from reality. (1)

aix tom (902140) | more than 3 years ago | (#36356226)

Sony probably don't have money and manpower left to protect their customers data from hackers, because they spent all their money and manpower trying to invent new ways to protect their content from being accessed by their customers.

Re:Disjoined from reality. (1)

luther349 (645380) | more than 3 years ago | (#36356318)

they could throw your money in the streets and you will never see it again. have you ever tryed to get your money back when the bank messes up heh. of couse they will happly harass you with phone calls every 5 minuts when you owe then 1 cent. and sony is on the same we can do anything wth your money level as a bank.

Re:Disjoined from reality. (1)

Osgeld (1900440) | more than 3 years ago | (#36356106)

in regards of computer security yes you wear your bullet proof vest all day everyday

and no this is not like blaming a rape victim for acting like a slut, this is blaming a slut for acting like a a slut wide open and completely exposed

Re:Disjoined from reality. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36356356)

And remember, Sony isn't just a slut - Sony's a slut with homicidal tendencies.

Re:Disjoined from reality. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36356182)

It doesn't look like they blamed Sony. It looks like they stated that Sony has very poor security, and consumers should be aware of this. Even if you think hacking Sony is wrong, isn't it still true that Sony has very poor security and consumers should be aware of this?

Re:Disjoined from reality. (1)

Trilkin (2042026) | more than 3 years ago | (#36356228)

From TFA:

"SonyPictures.com was owned by a very simple SQL injection, one of the most primitive and common vulnerabilities, as we should all know by now. From a single injection, we accessed EVERYTHING. Why do you put such faith in a company that allows itself to become open to these simple attacks?”

Are these hackers this disjointed from reality they believe this? Does everyone wear a bullet proof vest 100% of the time? Guess its their fault they get shot for simply walking down the street.

Blaming Sony for these hacks are in the same league as blaming a rape victim for the assault because she was dressed and acting like a slut. Sure Sony is an evil corporation, but you never get to blame the victim of a crime, for the crime.

No means no, whether its a girl telling you no when you try and cop a feel, or a cooperation saying no to using their service unless you play by their rules.

I understand what you're saying, and I agree with that on principle, but this is slightly different. If we're using the rape analogy, this is more similar to a woman walking mostly nude into a dive bar and drunkenly saying a bit too loudly that it's impossible to rape her and that she thinks all men are pigs. Most men are decent enough to ignore her, but there're always a few who won't. Then, when she does get assaulted, the bouncers are completely ineffective and she spends the good part of an hour or so getting viciously raped before the cops finally get there while everyone else watches either in horror or in amusement and the spectacle. By that time, the rapists are long gone.

Does she deserve what happened to her? No, not really. She was drunk and being stupid. Should she be SURPRISED that it happened to her? Probably not.

Re:Disjoined from reality. (1)

PitaBred (632671) | more than 3 years ago | (#36356306)

The thing is, you are putting your website out on a street that is KNOWN to have people randomly shot by (let's be a little nicer here) paintballs. That's the Internet, and it's what the Internet has been for decades now. It costs a little bit, but it's relatively easy to have very tough to defeat body armor. Sony went out onto that street in it's underwear, and is now complaining that jerks are shooting them with paintballs. Legally, Sony is completely right. Morally... Sony deserves every ass-welt they get for being jerks and parading around in their underwear online.

Re:Disjoined from reality. (1)

tehniobium (1042240) | more than 3 years ago | (#36356370)

I don't agree with your metaphor; Sony aren't simply walking down the street, they are responsible for the security of more than their own network (in the metaphor, their own life) - they are responsible for the data and identity of all the customers they keep on file.

So it's more like a bus-driver, driving a bus down a road.

Now a SQL injection is only possible if the coder who wrote the Sony server software was an incompetent moron AND no proper code review has been done. Securing your inputs is not at all hard. If I can do it, so can Sony.

In the metaphor, this is equivalent to the bus company neglecting to have the bus repaired/maintained regularly. The result is that the bus is held together by one bolt. Now the person that undoes that bolt is a criminal, yes. But the bus company sure aren't free of blame by a long shot.

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