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European Pirates Arrested in Massive Police Operation

samzenpus posted more than 2 years ago | from the problem-solved dept.

EU 278

freedumb2000 writes "Europe just witnessed one of the largest piracy-related busts in history with the raid of the popular movie streaming portal Kino.to. More than a dozen people connected to the site were arrested after police officers in Germany, Spain, France and the Netherlands raided several residential addresses and data centers. Kino.to hosted no illicit content itself, but indexed material stored on file-hosters and other streaming services."

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278 comments

Phonebook websites (5, Insightful)

Killjoy_NL (719667) | more than 2 years ago | (#36385040)

Dear Police,

According to my research, there are a lot of criminals being referenced in the phonebook websites worldwide, making it easier for them to communicate.
Please take those sites down too.

Sincerely,

Killjoy_NL

Re:Phonebook websites (0, Flamebait)

Grismar (840501) | more than 2 years ago | (#36385116)

Let's say there was a phone directory that listed people, 90% of whom were child molesters with a high degree of certainty. Wouldn't it make sense to use that phonebook and the company that maintained it, to get a hold of the molesters, assuming the problem was getting sufficiently out of hand and there were few or no other ways to get to this group?

And if the point of said directory would be exclusively to bring these molesters together, wouldn't it be fair to shut down the company itself as well? According to TFA the site reported “The domain of the site you are trying to access was closed on suspicion of forming a criminal organization to commit professional copyright infringement.”

Now, you may argue that child molestation is more rare, well hidden and (far) more serious than piracy (if that is even what you'd want to call it). But that won't change the fact that something illegal and organized in the opinion of the powers that be was going on here. And whether you're of the opinion that it should be legal, or that the offenders should be prosecuted, getting the thing to court is worthwhile.

Re:Phonebook websites (2)

sakdoctor (1087155) | more than 2 years ago | (#36385160)

According to my research, 90% of the people listed in the phone directory are pirates, with a high degree of certainty.
The rest are ninjas.

Re:Phonebook websites (4, Funny)

Noughmad (1044096) | more than 2 years ago | (#36385244)

All ninjas have unlisted numbers, you insensitive clod!

Re:Phonebook websites (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36385200)

Allow me to play devil's advocate.... What if that percentage of "allegedly" copyrighted material was 80%, or 50% or only 25%?

  Where do you draw the line in making a blanket judgement about a site that is acting as an Index of copyrighted material? What if the website indexed a legitimate percentage of non-copyrighted material - in addition to the copyrighted materials? Those with the best lobbyist / deepest pockets wins?

Re:Phonebook websites (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36385334)

Furthermore, how is indexing copyrighted material wrong? If anything, the infringing parties are the ones making the content available without proper authorization. If indexing copyrighted data is illegal, I can think of several search engines that are going to get in trouble real soon (or rather, their CEOs). Unless the governments, judges and police are hypocrites and decide to make an exception with them, of course.

Re:Phonebook websites (2)

AmiMoJo (196126) | more than 2 years ago | (#36385996)

Where do you draw the line

Where the music industry tells you too. It is easier, faster and cheaper to bullshit the police into arresting site admins than it is to go the proper legal route and sue them. Also makes up for deficiencies in local laws that fail to make linking to copyright material without permission a crime.

Someone should tip them off about Google's filetype:torrent feature.

Re:Phonebook websites (2)

Hazel Bergeron (2015538) | more than 2 years ago | (#36385226)

Copyright and patent infringement are the crimes of speaking forbidden things (whatever spin you like to put on it as benefitting mankind, this is fact). I guess it's an extension of this absurdity that that it becomes criminal to speak locations to things which it is forbidden to speak.

Of course, a list of criminals isn't quite the same thing as a list of locations.

Re:Phonebook websites (2)

Arancaytar (966377) | more than 2 years ago | (#36385254)

Bingo! Comparing the unauthorized distribution of data to the sexual abuse of children, and it only took two comments to get there.

Now all we're missing is "terrorists" and "communists".

Re:Phonebook websites (1)

aaaaaaargh! (1150173) | more than 2 years ago | (#36385458)

Shouldn't there be Nazis, too?

Re:Phonebook websites (1)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 2 years ago | (#36385776)

Nah, nobody is worried about them anymore. And terrorists are the new communists, nobody takes you serious today if you talk about the Red Threat, but terrorists, ahhh, panic, they already killed in just a decade about as many people as traffic accidents do daily! Gotta be wary!

Re:Phonebook websites (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36385734)

No. The MAFIAA already did that comparison, long before any commenter could do it.

Remember, that some days ago, they officially stated in front of a parliament (forgot is US, UK or Germany), that file sharing kills artists. (Yep, not even "music". But "artists".)

(Well, I guess the MAFIAA found out, that they could not rape that which is dead to them. Oh wait, they try anyway. Even if it needs a shovel and a maggot protection. "A cat is fine too" [encyclopediadramatica.ch], I guess.)

Probably because they wouldn't help the police. (1)

elucido (870205) | more than 2 years ago | (#36385294)

I'm sure the police offered to let them keep their site up and to become informants. Chances are they refused the offer and got raided as a result.

Usually police love to have control over these sorts of websites so that they may more easily sting pirates.

Molestation (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36385326)

> Let's say there was a phone directory that listed people, 90% of whom were child molesters with a high degree of certainty. Wouldn't it make sense to use that phonebook and the company that maintained it, to get a hold of the molesters, assuming the problem was getting sufficiently out of hand and there were few or no other ways to get to this group?

We might call it "worldsexguide" or "craigslist." Just, you know, hypothetically. (Neither refers specifically and explicitly to child prostitution, AFAIK, but both are used for advertising or referrals in renting people's bodies out in the sex slave trade.)

respondents: pause for a moment before rationalizing the rape of a child or pretending it doesn't exist.

Re:Molestation (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36385348)

Of course the child exists. If it were a dream, I wouldn't be able to smell the fear.

Posting anonymously because child rape jokes don't go down as well as, well, children.

Re:Molestation (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36385724)

Posting anonymously because child rape jokes don't go down as well as, well, children.

Glad I'm not a parent; otherwise I wouldn't understand the hilarity in this.

Re:Phonebook websites (3, Insightful)

datapharmer (1099455) | more than 2 years ago | (#36385436)

But you aren't arresting the people using the phone book, you are arresting the people making the phone book. Even if the phone book could potentially be used for bad things, it is the right of the publisher (at least in the U.S.) to make it. It is called free speech. There is a crap ton of print material out there from fringe groups that isn't stopped on this premise, much of it far more dangerous about how to commit crimes and blow stuff up and make dangerous drugs, but we don't arrest the people printing those. We might "ban" the books, but the authors are protected since they claim it is "for entertainment" or "educational." Why isn't the same true for websites cataloguing content. Honestly it reminds me of the case of a college student paper whose editors got in trouble in the 70s because they printed a listing of abortion clinics in other states where it was legal (the state they were in it was not). Eventually the thing got thrown out - it was free speech. The entire idea of spending millions of dollars attacking websites and thought crime is ridiculous no matter how you look at it. We'll be fighting the "war on piracy" forever, just like the "war on terror" and the "war on drugs." Fighting against ideas is like tilting at windmills!

Re:Phonebook websites (2)

aaaaaaargh! (1150173) | more than 2 years ago | (#36385480)

Because we all know that child molesting and copyright infringement is basically the same thing, don't we Mr. Analogy-Guy?

Re:Phonebook websites (1)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 2 years ago | (#36385800)

Doesn't copyright infringement fuel child porn? Or was that terrorism? I get the strawmen mixed up sometimes.

Re:Phonebook websites (1)

unitron (5733) | more than 2 years ago | (#36385536)

"Let's say there was a phone directory that listed people, 90% of whom were child molesters with a high degree of certainty."

And the other 10% were also child molesters, but more tentative about it?

Re:Phonebook websites (1)

torako (532270) | more than 2 years ago | (#36385280)

The only reason kino.to existed was to make advertising money on piracy and the police suspect that kino.to had mutual agreements with the hosters. Now, the law is unclear whether watching an illegit stream is illegal (probably not), so they are not going against the users of kino.to. But aquiring the source material to stream definitely involves piracy. This is more of an organized crime case (and it is treated as such by the police and state attorney), then a "phonebook" thing.

Re:Phonebook websites (1)

HungryHobo (1314109) | more than 2 years ago | (#36385354)

"the law is unclear whether watching an illegit stream is illegal "

Is listening to a pirate radio station illegal?

Re:Phonebook websites (2)

Taco Cowboy (5327) | more than 2 years ago | (#36385582)

If listening to a pirate radio is illegal then only BIG BROTHER will have control over what is legal and we will all be restricted to listen (and watch) the "LEGALIZED CHANNELS".

1984 in the 21st century?

Re:Phonebook websites (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36385792)

Actually, in some countries it is illegal to listen to pirate radio. The UK is one. Not in the US, though.

Re:Phonebook websites (1)

metacell (523607) | more than 2 years ago | (#36385850)

It's definitely legal to listen to pirate radio and pirate streams on the Internet here in Sweden. Don't know about other EU countries.

Re:Phonebook websites (1)

Yvanhoe (564877) | more than 2 years ago | (#36385668)

The law is unclear but the police moves just in case. I fucking love copyright laws.

Pirates eh... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36385058)

For a moment there I thought they were talking about global-warming preventing sea pirates.

I feel rickrolled (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36385070)

I clicked the link on twitter expecting naval pirates

I'm sad now ._.

What's the suffix for Somalia? (4, Funny)

ArsenneLupin (766289) | more than 2 years ago | (#36385076)

Kino.to goes down, welcome kino.so ! In any case, that domain would be more fitting for pirates.

Summary incomplete (5, Interesting)

aepervius (535155) | more than 2 years ago | (#36385094)

"Kino.to hosted no illicit content itself, but indexed material stored on file-hosters and other streaming services."

Copying and pasting the first paragraphn is 1) misleading 2) an extremely poor way to do a SUMMARY. This is what is missing "GVU states that Kino.to was working closely with the sites that hosted the copyrighted films, and that they profited from commercial partnerships with these companies."

So it was not a SIMPLE linking as the first paragraph make seem to believe.

Re:Summary incomplete (1)

C0R1D4N (970153) | more than 2 years ago | (#36385130)

"Kino.to hosted no illicit content itself, but indexed material stored on file-hosters and other streaming services." Copying and pasting the first paragraphn is 1) misleading 2) an extremely poor way to do a SUMMARY. This is what is missing "GVU states that Kino.to was working closely with the sites that hosted the copyrighted films, and that they profited from commercial partnerships with these companies." So it was not a SIMPLE linking as the first paragraph make seem to believe.

Even still, why not go after those sites that hosted the films instead?

Re:Summary incomplete (3, Informative)

PerformanceDude (1798324) | more than 2 years ago | (#36385256)

"Kino.to hosted no illicit content itself, but indexed material stored on file-hosters and other streaming services." Copying and pasting the first paragraphn is 1) misleading 2) an extremely poor way to do a SUMMARY. This is what is missing "GVU states that Kino.to was working closely with the sites that hosted the copyrighted films, and that they profited from commercial partnerships with these companies." So it was not a SIMPLE linking as the first paragraph make seem to believe.

Even still, why not go after those sites that hosted the films instead?

Because in Russia films host you... No seriously - it is obvious that those sites are in "uncooperative" jurisdictions. So they go for the closer target to get some press. Kino.ru/so/ir/kp will likely be available any day now.

Re:Summary incomplete (1)

ezzzD55J (697465) | more than 2 years ago | (#36385952)

So they go for the closer target to get some press. Kino.ru/so/ir/kp will likely be available any day now.

Ok, but law did the 'closer target' break? It's just that if there wasn't a good legal case, there's no good legal reason the police couldn't come and raid my home either, even if I'm not breaking any law. So that makes me feel some empathy with the raidees, making millions doing shady stuff or not.

Re:Summary incomplete (3, Informative)

bemymonkey (1244086) | more than 2 years ago | (#36385320)

They did... according to most German tech sites, the same people who owned the file hosting sites also happened to be the owners of kino.to. Or something like that...

Anyway, they took the hosting sites down too.

Re:Summary incomplete (1)

buchner.johannes (1139593) | more than 2 years ago | (#36385322)

Also, kino.to was making literally millions from advertisement. Euro-millions.

If they hadn't, they wouldn't be prosecuted.

Also, the police did not threaten to charge any leechers/downloaders, only uploaders.

This is sane.

Re:Summary incomplete (5, Informative)

think_nix (1467471) | more than 2 years ago | (#36385324)

Copying and pasting the first paragraphn is 1) misleading 2) an extremely poor way to do a SUMMARY. This is what is missing "GVU states that Kino.to was working closely with the sites that hosted the copyrighted films, and that they profited from commercial partnerships with these companies."

So it was not a SIMPLE linking as the first paragraph make seem to believe.

Good point. Also stated in these articles here: (sorry could not find anything in english) http://heise.de/-1257486/ [heise.de] and http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/netzpolitik/0,1518,767375,00.html/ [spiegel.de]

Basically what was stated is that not only was kino.to taken down but also the filehosting and portal sites behind it. The people running these sites (kino.to and others) are not explicitly being charged for linking copyrighted material(ASFAIK this is still somewhat of a grayzone in Germany) But rather for building an organized criminal organization. If prosecuted in a German criminal court this could lead to a 5 year jail sentence.

Re:Summary incomplete (1)

gweihir (88907) | more than 2 years ago | (#36386016)

An that is where "founding a criminal organization" comes in. Without the commercial gain from working with the ones offering actual infringing content, the prosecutor has nothing. With that gain, the case becomes direct profit ("direct" because of the close collaboration) from copyright infringement, that becomes "commercial copyright infringement" and since this was multi-person and organized, it becomes "founding a criminal organization". There are serious penalties for that.

Of all places.... (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36385134)

a title using "pirates" for copyright infringers. I'd actually be interesting in a massive police operation against gunships carrying armed pirates off the coast of Belgium. Until then....

kino.to was a cesspit (4, Interesting)

zaibazu (976612) | more than 2 years ago | (#36385144)

The site was well known for fake videoplayer plugins that lured unaware users into useless subscriptions.

Download and raw DVD tax (4, Interesting)

sourcerror (1718066) | more than 2 years ago | (#36385152)

More than a dozen people connected to the site were arrested after police officers in Germany, Spain, France and the Netherlands raided several residential addresses and data centers.

Spain has a tax on empty CDs/DVDs. Wasn't the justification for that to be that it would make non-profit piracy tolerated? (In my country, Hungary we have a similar tax, and it protects users of pirate sites.) This is the first time I hear that users of pirate sites are also prosecuted in Europe. What next, bittorrent users? (Like with Hurt Locker in US.)

Re:Download and raw DVD tax (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36385228)

The people arrested were not users...

Re:Download and raw DVD tax (1)

X-chan (782883) | more than 2 years ago | (#36385230)

I'm pretty sure that by "connected to the site", it means people who had an active part in managing the website rather than some users. France also got a similar tax, but I never heard about it allowing non-profit piracy. Your country is awesome if it works like this, because from what I've seen around the world, those taxes are just about stealing money from people without granting them more rights (and most smaller content creators are pretty lucky if they get to see a single dime from this money).

Of course, such taxes contribute to a "it's ok to pirate, I already paid for it" mindset, but hey, why would they care about slowing piracy if they can just increase profits by putting more taxes on the innocent citizens?

Re:Download and raw DVD tax (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36385308)

Spain has a tax on empty CDs/DVDs. Wasn't the justification for that to be that it would make non-profit piracy tolerated?

In general, such taxes are used to "compensate" for fair use-like exemptions in copyright (the right to make backup copies etc). It varies from EU member state to member state whether or not non-commercial copying/downloading for personal use is allowed by copyright law (e.g. it is allowed in the Netherlands, but not in Belgium). I don't know what the situation in Spain is.

Such taxes are however never "compensations for losses incurred via illegal acts". Either something is legal and you can tax it, or something is illegal and you cannot tax it (but you can prosecute it).

That said, as has been mentioned above they did not prosecute people who watched/downloaded the movies.

Re:Download and raw DVD tax (1)

Seumas (6865) | more than 2 years ago | (#36385404)

That doesn't make any sense. Why do you need to be "compensated" for "fair use"? It's FAIR USE. That's the entire point. Otherwise it' be called "paying a fee to license content for use". I guess there better be a similar tax on all printers, ink, paper, typewriters, and word processing programs, because they may use a quote or a reference in some way and the original content owners need to be compensated for the fair use.

Re:Download and raw DVD tax (1)

metacell (523607) | more than 2 years ago | (#36385944)

Here in Sweden, the CD/DVD tax will probably be extended to include external hard drives and thumb drives this fall.

Re:Download and raw DVD tax (1)

metacell (523607) | more than 2 years ago | (#36385916)

Such taxes are however never "compensations for losses incurred via illegal acts". Either something is legal and you can tax it, or something is illegal and you cannot tax it (but you can prosecute it).

Sorry for being off-topic, but I have to mention that Sweden has a very amusing spin on this. In Sweden, it's illegal to buy the services of a prostitute. It is, however, legal to solicit sexual services. That means prostitutes need to declare income and pay taxes for the services they sell, even though they are illegal to buy!

Re:Download and raw DVD tax (1)

nospam007 (722110) | more than 2 years ago | (#36385358)

Is it a crime in Tonga, (Kino.to) to list alleged 'copyright infringing' sites?
How do I know that streaming an English movie from Kazakhstan or Burkina Faso is illegal if nobody can find out who owns the rights to stream those movies in/from those countries?
If it's intellectual 'Property', could those countries tax that property, if, or even if they don't put it in the theaters there?

If they want worldwide rights, they should pay taxes on that property worldwide.

Re:Download and raw DVD tax (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36385416)

None of the arrested people were users, they were part the website's staff (admins and other workers). Also, that tax is unrelated to piracy. You're labelling as "piracy" acts that aren't so. That tax is to compensate for the alleged (and so far, never proven) loss of money that "private copying" causes to the copyright owners (at least according to Spanish law, and I'm assuming the law in Hungary is simillar, since it merely applies a European Directive). "Private copying" is the act of making copies of already legitimately released (e.g. leaked albums or movies aren't legitimately released) copyrightable works (excluding software) for private use and not for profit, regardless of whether the maker of the copy is the same who will keep and use it, or if he actually owns a purchased copy of the content (again, according to Spanish law, and assuming that equivalent laws in other european countries with a tax on blank media are worded simillarly). And it is completely legal, unlike piracy. In fact, what protects the users (I won't say "of pirate sites" because what those sites do is not piracy, and probably isn't even illegal, at least in countries with such a tax) is the right to make "private copies" and not the tax. The tax can't exist without that right, but the opposite is not true.

Re:Download and raw DVD tax (4, Informative)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 2 years ago | (#36385834)

We got that joke running here as well (as do most countries afaik). The gag in it all is the combination of various little bits that make the whole "media tax" very fishy.

1. Allegedly, the reason for that levy on blank media is that you, the consumer, will use them to record copyrighted material, e.g. by making a copy of a record on a blank tape, or in today's word, a copy of the DVD that you borrowed from a friend. Our law even has a section that explicitly allows you to borrow legally bought media from personal friends (nobody on the internet is your friend, btw, that's established in court, so any internet sources are not part of the deal) and create a copy of it for your personal use.

2. Every single commercial DVD and BluRay (that would be subject to the grounds established in the first bullet point) now comes with copy protection.

3. The law now explicitly also disallows circumventing protection of any sort.

Question for 100: How am I supposed to execute my right to a copy if copy protection prevents me from copying and I must not disable this protection (even if it's trivial)?

Re:Download and raw DVD tax (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36386006)

The people arrested were not users, but the operators of the site.

Any other sites I should know about? (1)

TubeSteak (669689) | more than 2 years ago | (#36385176)

Although the site was most popular in German-speaking countries, it didnâ(TM)t escape the eye of the MPAA either.

Unfortunately, I'm not in a German speaking country.
Can any foreign /.ers tell us what sites are biggest in their country's sphere of influence?

Re:Any other sites I should know about? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36385418)

My guess it's the ones listed in the MAFIAA redirector FF extension.

http://www.hq-streams.tv/ [hq-streams.tv]
http://www.atdhenet.tv/ [atdhenet.tv]
http://www.rojadirecta.es/ [rojadirecta.es]
http://www.rojadirecta.es/ [rojadirecta.es]
http://www.torrent-finder.info/ [torrent-finder.info]
http://www.hq-streams.tv/ [hq-streams.tv]
http://www.firstrowsports.eu/ [firstrowsports.eu]
http://www.ilemi.eu/ [ilemi.eu]
http://www.ilemi.eu/ [ilemi.eu]
http://www.ilemi.eu/ [ilemi.eu]
http://www.freeonsmash.com/ [freeonsmash.com]
http://www.rapgodfathers.info/ [rapgodfathers.info]
http://www.tvshack.bz/ [tvshack.bz]
http://www.tvshack.bz/ [tvshack.bz]
http://www.watch-movies-tv.info/ [watch-movies-tv.info]
http://www.fastpasstv.ms/ [fastpasstv.ms]

Re:Any other sites I should know about? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36385430)

"Sites"? 1995 called! It wants its file sharing technology back!

Seriously, have we gone full mountain, into the valley of idiocracy?
(Share directory = You put a file in, it gets automatically shared. No further action needed. Search = Built-in!)

0. FTP: Multiple centralized insecure servers without search or share directory.
1. Napster: Single centralized insecure server with search and share directory. (ScourExchange was bigger and better anyway.)
2. eDonkey: Multiple centralized insecure servers with search and share directory.
3. Gnutella: Completely decentralized insecure network with search and share directory.
4. Freenet & Co: Completely decentralized secure network with search and share directory.
0. BitTorrent: Multiple centralized insecure servers without search or share directory.
-1: Websites: Multiple centralized insecure servers with search but NO sharing at all.

FAIL.

No (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36385178)

No, I think these europeans are skitso, none of their legislation is correct.

Cool... so (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36385274)

Does this mean we now have official sites where we can stream / download movies in decent formats for reasonable cost? Like DivX sites operating in a erm... unofficial capacity under DMCA safe harbour provisions. These are reasonably anonymous with user uploaded content and a good selection of obscure / hard to find stufff.

AFAIK there's not a single legitimate video site that would satisfy my criteria and even youtube is operating in a grey area. Nobody wants to see compulsory licensing introduced as a result of market failure. Copyright may be a form of monopoly but there's no reason rights holders should be exempt from market forces.

Re:Cool... so (1)

aaaaaaargh! (1150173) | more than 2 years ago | (#36385528)

Mod parent up,please!

I have money right now and would definitely pay for watching movies but in my country there is absolutely no working legal movie streaming site with decent choices. It's completely ridiculous.

Re:Cool... so (3, Informative)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 2 years ago | (#36385900)

Can someone who didn't post yet hand that guy a few mod points? This is pretty much dead on the problem.

I have money and I would gladly spend it on content. If it was offered to me, and offered in an acceptable way.

It takes AGES (years, literally) before a new season of whatever show I'd like to watch gets available in my country. Of course, dubbing and all takes time, but I'd be happy to have it in plain ol' English. And not only because the dubbing stinks for 9 out of 10 shows, where jokes get mutilated to the point where you can't even understand why it was supposedly funny. We're at least one-two seasons behind on our networks. Writer's guild strike? Some actor going bonkers? We won't feel it at least another year or two, and by then they certainly compensated with something. Hey, what a blast!

Then there's my pet peeve about anime. Some of the dubbing is just atrocious if you understand at least a few words of Japanese. They often get butchered with cuts that change the whole story, not to mention that certain animes won't ever make it here since, hey, comics are for kids and these things aren't suitable for our kids! Think I'll ever get to see a German dub of Hellsing OVA? Doubt it. Not only 'cause of the Nazis.

So let me buy what I want to have and I'll gladly throw my money at you! But please refrain from casting it in a package that I cannot accept as a licensee. If you force me to sit through half an hour of unskipable ads, I'm not going to buy. I paid for the content! If you want to litter it with ads, show it to me for free on private TV!

Re:Cool... so (1)

metacell (523607) | more than 2 years ago | (#36385968)

There's a service called Voddler which streams legally licensed films and TV shows over BitTorrent, but the content is still very meager compared to a pirate site.

It depends on your definition of "massive" (5, Insightful)

Stormtrooper42 (1850242) | more than 2 years ago | (#36385290)

police have arrested a total of 13 people thus far. A 14th person is still being hunted.

13 people. How massive.

like (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36385338)

I really like that you have a tags list in the sidebar.

just shut all down (5, Insightful)

devent (1627873) | more than 2 years ago | (#36385346)

I really wish they would shut down every site out there that illegal links or shares copyrighted material, so that people have no way at all anymore to download movies and music. Then I would see the whole movie and music industry go in to oblivion because nobody will buy there crap anymore.

Are they really believing that if people couldn't share the movies and music, the people would suddenly buy more stuff? If anything, they would buy less stuff because they don't know anymore new artists or new movies.

As I was 18 I used a lot torrents, and I mean a lot. Like 5 movies and games every week. Now I don't use that anymore, do I buy more movies and more games? No, not at all. Why? Because that crap is just so expensive and I found so many new alternatives for entertainment. Like youtube where I watch news and starcraft 2 movies, and southparkstudios.com, and collegehumour.com. And I read a lot of blogs and news on the internet. For music I have youtube and lastfm and other services.

If I go to the Mediamarkt I see it why I stopped to buy new movies or music and why others are not buying, too. I see it because all the DVDs and all the music CDs are laying there around for years and nobody touches them. Because they are so freaky expensive. 20Euro for a old DVD movie, 30Euro and more for new movies and 30Euro and more for TV series.

Every time I go to the shop and see a nice movie, I see the price and I think: do I really want that DVD for that price? And the answer is every time: no, because it's just too expensive for just one movie that I will watch one day and then it will lay around collecting dust. If the DVDs would be like 5Euro each for new movies and under 5Euro for old DVDs I would buy them. But not for that price, no way. Because I have so much free entertainment.

Re:just shut all down (2)

samjam (256347) | more than 2 years ago | (#36385446)

At ASDA DVD's are £5 a throw and often less.

I buy them and watch them once or twice and think I've had good value for money.

Re:just shut all down (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36385656)

Where I live at least there are a number of options for legally watching movies at reasonable prices.
The local library has a number of movies and tv series on DVD; recently they switch most tv shows to being per-season check-outs instead of per-dvd. (Caveat: the library system has been voted number one in the US a number of times, so their level of service probably isn't typical)

Next, I have a netflix subscription; steaming fills many of my needs, but I get a number of DVD's (only ones I can't quickly get from the library). Since there's a distribution center in my city and since my employer has their own post office, I can usually mail out a DVD in the morning and get the next one in my queue the next day (some times it takes two).

Finally, there are a number of redboxes at local stores (some within walking distance which is saying something as I live in a suburb in a location choosen as its 4 houses away from a park), at $1 a night, plus monthly deals for free nights, and the fact that I, my wife (rarely), my 5 children (biological + step), and mother-in-law can all watch the movie for that price makes it a good deal.

I end up watching a lot of movies; typically I'll do something else (like programming) while watching them and a number of them are children's movies or at least family friendly. We've also had a lot of thunder stroms lately (its been very atypically wet) so that's also influenced our behaviors.

Re:just shut all down (1)

TheTurtlesMoves (1442727) | more than 2 years ago | (#36385658)

The last few DVD i got didn't play on any of my 3 computers or the DVD player. They refused to give me a refund.

Re:just shut all down (2)

samjam (256347) | more than 2 years ago | (#36385732)

Sometimes it's easier to get them to agree for an exchange.

Quite possibly when they get to the shelf they won't find any if your friend has them all in his trolly as he walks around frozen veg.

Having already accepted the point, they then give the refund or a credit note or 3 "smiles" or something and your friend can put them back before he leaves.

But I agree, quality and customer service at ASDA are going to hell.

just shut all down: Slashdot! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36385518)

I really wish they would shut down every site out there that illegal links or shares copyrighted material, so that people have no way at all anymore to download movies and music. Then I would see the whole movie and music industry go in to oblivion because nobody will buy there crap anymore.

Are they really believing that if people couldn't share the movies and music, the people would suddenly buy more stuff? If anything, they would buy less stuff because they don't know anymore new artists or new movies.

Why do you believe marketing will suddenly disappear? Word of mouth? Why do you believe "good enough to steal" but not "good enough to buy"? Do you even realize that invalidates the whole "but piracy doesn't hurt anybody" argument? Or even better "piracy benefits those we steal from".

Re:just shut all down: Slashdot! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36385704)

Why do you believe "good enough to steal" but not "good enough to buy"? Do you even realize that invalidates the whole "but piracy doesn't hurt anybody" argument? Or even better "piracy benefits those we steal from".

There is no stealing going on. Prove me wrong.

Re:just shut all down: Slashdot! (1)

Squiddie (1942230) | more than 2 years ago | (#36385746)

Fist, it's not stealing. And second, if you read the post, you'd realize that he would watch movies for free, but not if he had to pay for them. He has other forms of entertainment that are free, legally. So no, he didn't just invalidate that argument.

Re:just shut all down (4, Insightful)

Kjella (173770) | more than 2 years ago | (#36385728)

I really wish they would shut down every site out there that illegal links or shares copyrighted material, so that people have no way at all anymore to download movies and music. Then I would see the whole movie and music industry go in to oblivion because nobody will buy there crap anymore.

Yeah, because it was all going to oblivion before the Internet and P2P, right?

As I was 18 I used a lot torrents, and I mean a lot. Like 5 movies and games every week. Now I don't use that anymore, do I buy more movies and more games? No, not at all. Why? Because that crap is just so expensive and I found so many new alternatives for entertainment. Like youtube where I watch news and starcraft 2 movies, and southparkstudios.com, and collegehumour.com. And I read a lot of blogs and news on the internet. For music I have youtube and lastfm and other services.

Good for you. But everyone else, why are they then downloading all the TV series and movies? Oh, because they actually want them not the youtube garbage. This is the old "I don't like them so neither should you".

Every time I go to the shop and see a nice movie, I see the price and I think: do I really want that DVD for that price? And the answer is every time: no, because it's just too expensive for just one movie that I will watch one day and then it will lay around collecting dust. If the DVDs would be like 5Euro each for new movies and under 5Euro for old DVDs I would buy them. But not for that price, no way

Every time they offer something for X$, there's someone who comes along and says "If only it was available for X/2$ I'd buy it. But if you actually lowered it, most of them would now say X/4$. Or X/8$. Reality is that we know the truth, those who really liked it already bought it at the high price and those who don't will find some other excuse not to buy it.

I don't mind copyright as such when I buy say a paperback book. The author wrote it, whatever deals good or bad he did with the publisher is not my problem, and he charges a price per copy. I buy my copy and that copy is mine, end of story. No DRM, no regions, no EULA, no licensed player that won't let me flip several pages at once (no fast forward), no disappearing ink pages that'll be gone if I resell it (one-time codes), I can sell it, burn it, make paper planes of it and it's a straight deal in every way except for the few limited rights actually in copyright law.

The problem is copyright enforcement which has turned into a huge inconvenience for the customers and is also threatening lots of privacy, due process and other laws. I don't want companies sitting on remote disable/delete buttons to everything I own. Of course you might say I should become a cultural hermit and just reject all commercial TV, movies etc. but I'd rather just take it while I wait for them to clue in and provide a service equal to the torrent sites - at any cost. I do buy the best on BluRay/DVD as the DRM is broken, but they go mostly unopened as I've already had my "digital delivery" long ago.

They raided ships over the Internet? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36385450)

I thought the north sea was safe.

PIRATES !! PAEDO !! ONE IN THE SAME !! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36385462)

Paedos. Pirates. Hard to tell them apart since they are to most one in the same. It is rate to find a pirate that is not also a paedo. I don't know one pirate who has ever said he was not also a paedo. Are you a paedo ?? Are you a pirate ?? One yes means two. Proven as fact !!

Re:PIRATES !! PAEDO !! ONE IN THE SAME !! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36385828)

Probably not, but I suspect the reverse is true. Most of the non tech savy pedos get busted quickly. Those remaining, having already demonstrated a disregard for the law, are likely to engage in piracy.

Sadly, even the basic knowledge necessary to get torrents working is beyond a large fraction of the general populace.

Do something useful (2)

toxickitty (1758282) | more than 2 years ago | (#36385554)

Dear retarded goverments please stop wasting more resources on hunting down people who cost corporations money and put it into, I don't know, maybe hospitals, schools, scientific research. You know, things that actually matter...

WTF is wrong with the police? (3)

mihamicka (2135636) | more than 2 years ago | (#36385564)

WTF is wrong with the Police? WTF is wrong with this world?.. Police makes this "great" arrests instead of arresting the drug dealers and murderers and many other shits from the streets? OMG..... what world we live in? A world dominated by money? a world where even arrests are made cos some rich ppl who make some movies ask that? WTF? If the movies would no be so expensive probably a site like kino.to would not be needed.... but it is... and all this shit will only bring rage and need for revenge to many ppl including me.. I feel like we all start to live in Ceausescu time... where somebody was "managing" to copy some anti-communist book.. and ppl was giving that book from hand to hand, in secret, to be rad by everybody.... is same shit that so called "movie industry" does.... this reminds me of another article i rad here some time ago.. about some police in Australia who arrested a journalist for writing an article about how to hack computers using Facebook... after a friend's computer was hacked that way... same shit... WTF... police does not work on itself anymore... they work for the ones who pay better? oh and as far as i remember: we, all of us pay the police to be fair... we pay their salaries by paying taxes... WTH?

Re:WTF is wrong with the police? (2)

gweihir (88907) | more than 2 years ago | (#36385976)

Even when they arrest scumbags, the news is not to be trusted. The great European child porn raids of the past came down to basically nothing. If I remember correctly, they got less than 100 convictions for >1000 people raided, because most were actually innocent. The press still reported the high number and that is what the police seemingly was really after.

Pirates violently rob ships at sea. (4, Insightful)

nick_urbanik (534101) | more than 2 years ago | (#36385616)

The word "pirate" has been hijacked from the meaning of robbing ships at sea using violent threat to meaning copying a CD. This hijacking is convenient to the record industry, but I object to its use here. I do think that robbing ships at sea using violent threats is wrong.

Re:Pirates violently rob ships at sea. (3, Insightful)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 2 years ago | (#36385946)

So what? Everybody committing a crime against a government is suddenly a terrorist. Inflation doesn't just affect money.

Re:Pirates violently rob ships at sea. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36386022)

I used to feel this way to, but I've recently come round to accept this changed perspective. Yes, the RIAA/MPAA has successfully indoctrinated the world (and were slavishly followed abroad in other languages -- Dutch uses the word "piraterij"...).
I'm guessing this started as an effort to make the action seem egregious. But you know what changed my mind: Somalian pirates.
Hearing of Somalian pirates and seeing them in these small dinghies, I almost had to laugh.
Sure, I realise that they are dangerous and desperate. But thanks to all the indoctrination, I just had this fluffy image of them. They were no worse than file sharers. "Sure, they sail around with guns, but it's not like they'd use them, you know?".
And then I realised that (despite my vehement objections to the term) my own notion of piracy has changed. Piracy (to me) is done by some lazy kid in a comfy chair at home or in a dorm. Somalian piracy is similarly perpetrated by some reasonably-intending folk. Piracy isn't very ill-intentioned, it's just a matter of not having sufficient money (to splash out on the latest media). Those Somalian pirates don't come across as evil*, they just need to be educated a bit on the difference between right and wrong.

(*) They are evil. Robbing anyone is evil.

When I instinctively feel that capturing innocent civilians, kidnap and extortion are "not very ill-intentioned" just because of a certain term, that term has lost its edge. I am now a member of the group of people where Piracy Isn't Really Bad (tm).

Thank you RIAA/MAFIAA. You desensitised me to the one word that used to mean one of the most horrible crimes on the high seas.

The reasoning (4, Insightful)

dnaumov (453672) | more than 2 years ago | (#36385642)

Every now and then, someone tries to argue that torrent trackers are supposedly invinsible because they don't outright host copyrighted content, but only the .torrent files. I really wish people would start focusing on something else, because by now it should be blatantly obvious that such reasoning does not fly with the courts. In my country (Finland), there was a court case regarding Finreactor, a major finnish torrent tracker and the defendants tried to argue this very defence. It didn't fly. At all. The court concluded that the site was MOSTLY used to facilitate illegal activity and that the site maintainers made no reasonable effort to clean the site up from torrents pointing to copyrighted content. The tracker admins were found gulty and sentenced to heavy fines.

No, this logic does not apply to Google, because Google is not used MOSTLY to facilitate illegal activity and no, this logic does not apply to gun manufacturers, because guns are mostly used by law enforcement and army and not to commit murder and robbery.

Re:The reasoning (1)

metacell (523607) | more than 2 years ago | (#36385986)

It does apply to selling distillation equipment to private persons, though. It's almost exclusively used for making spirits illegally.

The largest search engine for illegal downloads (1)

Petersson (636253) | more than 2 years ago | (#36385714)

At first, Google shall be jailed. They have largest search engine for illegal downloads.

Bad headline? (3, Informative)

sirdude (578412) | more than 2 years ago | (#36385738)

Considering that this is /., the submitter's alias is "freedumb" and the linked article is on torrentfreak, isn't the headline rather poorly constructed? The torrentfreak article is titled "Kino.to Raided In Massive Police Operation, Admins Arrested" which is a lot more accurate.

If only Police showed the same willingness for... (2)

master_p (608214) | more than 2 years ago | (#36385938)

...other cases, like corrupted politicians, cartels, drug and people trafficking, the world would be a much better place.

Grey Area (2)

gweihir (88907) | more than 2 years ago | (#36385948)

It is quite possible that at least the ones arrested in Germany will walk free. Currently it is unclear whether linking and indexing even can constitute a crime. It is however unlikely that in that case the state would have to compensate them for lost business, as the business is somewhat amoral, which is a factor in civil law. (Prostitution is legal in Germany, before you ask.)

My guess: Police hoping to make big positive headlines (which they have), but the case will collapse.

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