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Want iCloud With Windows? Ditch the XP

timothy posted more than 3 years ago | from the what-about-linux dept.

Cloud 393

halfEvilTech writes "Microsoft isn't the only company denying equal online footing to Windows XP users. Apple will not give PC users access to iCloud – its great digital locker in the sky – if their machines are running Microsoft's aging but still popular Windows XP. Tucked at the bottom of the iCloud announcement, Apple says you'll need a PC running Windows Vista or Windows 7 to jump into Steve Jobs' version of the interwebs."

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393 comments

Lack of XP support isn't news anymore (3, Insightful)

Mr_eX9 (800448) | more than 3 years ago | (#36388302)

It's a 10-year old operating system. It was all Windows users had for a long time, and Vista was a flop, but Windows 7 is really good and has a strong adoption rate.

Re:Lack of XP support isn't news anymore (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36388322)

But why is the "cloud" dependend on an end user OS?

Re:Lack of XP support isn't news anymore (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36388450)

I would guess it would relate to the software that needs to run on the client computer to interact with the cloud. Unless it uses magic to suck the information off your computer remotely, there has to be something installed on the client computer for you to configure what gets synced and what doesn't.

Also, I'm still stuck using XP at work (and will be for the foreseeable future). I just hope one of our software vendors requires Vista/7 so we can move off of xp... I *finally* got our primary server moved off Win2k. XP is ancient and should be allowed to rest in peace.. 7 is so much better if your hardware can run it. If it can't, it's time for a new PC anyways.

Re:Lack of XP support isn't news anymore (0)

mcvos (645701) | more than 3 years ago | (#36388976)

But isn't the entire point of "the cloud" that it's independent of specific desktop software? Will iCloud not work with a normal browser? Will it not have an open API? Will it only work with proprietary Apple software? If so, then what is the entire point?

Probably requires iTunes (1)

langelgjm (860756) | more than 3 years ago | (#36388460)

I was wondering the same thing, but I'd guess it's because iCloud requires iTunes or something, and the new version of iTunes doesn't support XP.

Re:Lack of XP support isn't news anymore (2)

micheas (231635) | more than 3 years ago | (#36389196)

I would guess that the problem is the TCP/IP stack in windows XP that doesn't support some features of ssl, such as SNI.

Re:Lack of XP support isn't news anymore (1)

MyLongNickName (822545) | more than 3 years ago | (#36389250)

Thanks. I am not an expert, but that sounds like a reasonable explanation.

Re:Lack of XP support isn't news anymore (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36388342)

Heck. Apple does not support their own OS after about two days. Why not XP too?

But the point is, would windows user ditch their still working fine enough desktop/laptop to buy new shiny windows 7 just to get icloud? I think non-Apple land is little different, and people tend not to buy toys just because the master asked them to.

Re:Lack of XP support isn't news anymore (1, Insightful)

jo_ham (604554) | more than 3 years ago | (#36388664)

Oh come on, I hear this all the time but it's seriously FUD.

This is a company that took great pains to put in emulation software (Rosetta) when they switched to Intel, and had their IDE set up to profile different versions of the OS going back several (target a build for 10.3, 10.4, 10.5 etc), and kept the Classic environment around for years after the shift away from OS 9 (and I *still* have OS 9 plugins running in Photoshop on OS X 10.6 that still work - my scanner), and did the same thing earlier when going away from 68k.

The company that tried to make each transition as smooth as possible "ditching support after about 2 days" (obvious hyperbole, but not even remotely rooted in even a thin shred of truth).

Re:Lack of XP support isn't news anymore (1)

LordNimon (85072) | more than 3 years ago | (#36388770)

I *still* have OS 9 plugins running in Photoshop on OS X 10.6 that still work - my scanner

Have you looked at VueScan [hamrick.com] ? It has a Photoshop plug-in now.

Re:Lack of XP support isn't news anymore (1)

bennomatic (691188) | more than 3 years ago | (#36388914)

VueScan is awesome. I'm not the greenest guy in the world--hell, I drive two Humvees at once, one tied to each foot--but in addition to allowing me to avoid buying a new scanner when my old drivers wouldn't work anymore, it allowed me to keep a perfectly serviceable scanner out of some third-world landfill.

Re:Lack of XP support isn't news anymore (2)

DrgnDancer (137700) | more than 3 years ago | (#36388900)

Do you really think that? I seem to recall people standing in lines the night before Windows 95 release. I think the main reason people haven't jumped to upgrade since XP is the simple fact that there hasn't been a compelling reason too. That's starting to change. XP is coming out of security update coverage in a couple of years, it can't use the latest Internet Explorer, and other software is starting to require at least Vista. Adoption is going to start to pick up as it becomes more and more a matter of you need X to do Y. Apple is just following on to that trend.

I also think you're being kinda of unfair to Apple with this comment: "I think non-Apple land is little different, and people tend not to buy toys just because the master asked them to." One of the advantages of Macs and MacOS is that the hardware tends to be able to run the latest and greatest OS for a long time. My Wife's Macbook is first generation Intel hardware and it runs Snow Leopard just fine. There's been no indication that she won't be able to run Lion too. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that Snow Leopard ( and Leopard before it) runs better than Tiger did. Unlike typical MS releases, Apple's tend to clean up inefficiencies. Since the last two updates have been $30 each, there's been no good reason *not* to upgrade.

Re:Lack of XP support isn't news anymore (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36389256)

There has been an indication that (at least some) 1st-gen Intel Mac Hardware won't be able to run Lion. My Gen-1 MacBook won't, because it's Core Duo, not Core 2 Duo. Read the system requirements.

Re:Lack of XP support isn't news anymore (1)

mcvos (645701) | more than 3 years ago | (#36388994)

I'd rather not give money to MS just because Apple wants me to.

Re:Lack of XP support isn't news anymore (1)

WrongSizeGlass (838941) | more than 3 years ago | (#36388362)

It's a 10-year old operating system. It was all Windows users had for a long time, and Vista was a flop, but Windows 7 is really good and has a strong adoption rate.

Agreed, but will these small nudges to get users away from XP be enough to get them to change their OS? There are other options available to XP users that provide similar functionality to the applications and/or services that are starting to exclude XP.

Re:Lack of XP support isn't news anymore (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36388498)

It's only a matter of time before the fundamental stuff starts to kick in to move people off. WinXP's 64-bit support is entirely half-assed, so you have a 4GB limit on global memory address space (and a 2GB per-process limit). WinXP does not, and will not, support the TRIM command for SSDs, required to keep them from suffering degrading performance, nor will it support hard drives over 2TB in size. And then there's the DirectX 10+ thing. Yeah, they could backpatch this stuff in, but why?

Re:Lack of XP support isn't news anymore (3, Insightful)

cpu6502 (1960974) | more than 3 years ago | (#36388620)

>>>Agreed, but will these small nudges to get users away from XP be enough to get them to change their OS?

No. Rather than spend $200 or whatever upgrading to Windows 6.1, my operating system will remain stagnant until my P4 machine dies (which should be soon). In the meantime I'm perfectly happy to use older programs (Office97) or free alternatives for my software addons. Most of it is better than what MS or Apple offers anyway - like VLC or Winamp or Utorrent - and supports stuff as old as 98.

Re:Lack of XP support isn't news anymore (1)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 3 years ago | (#36388536)

On the one hand, what you say sound perfectly reasonably from a corporate perspective.

However, the actual reality of the situation is a little more subtle. There are still plenty of XP machines out there. There are even new machines being sold with it. It wasn't discontinued that long ago and it's intermediary Vista went down in history with Microsoft Bob as one of the most notorious Microsoft products ever.

Although all of this ultimately just hurts Apple. It drives people to buy newer PCs and newer copies of Windows. It drives sales to "the enemy".

It's the same nonsense as not supporting Linux or even being non-hostile to it.

It "seems" reasonable but it's really not at all in their own interests. They're encouraging people that would not otherwise buy a new PC running Windows 7 to go do so.

Re:Lack of XP support isn't news anymore (1)

daid303 (843777) | more than 3 years ago | (#36388662)

Although all of this ultimately just hurts Apple. It drives people to buy newer PCs and newer copies of Windows. It drives sales to "the enemy".

Or people iBuy a shiny new iMac or iBook. Or iSomething, to go with the iCloud.

Re:Lack of XP support isn't news anymore (1)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 3 years ago | (#36389114)

Yeah. This is what happens when you surround yourself with too many sychophants.

You start believing your own propaganda a little bit too much.

Re:Lack of XP support isn't news anymore (4, Interesting)

Yvan256 (722131) | more than 3 years ago | (#36388702)

Although all of this ultimately just hurts Apple. It drives people to buy newer PCs and newer copies of Windows. It drives sales to "the enemy".

Does it really? If it pushes people to buy a newer PC, it also opens the option of switching to a Mac while they're at it.

If they need iCloud for their iPhone, iPad or iPod touch, then it means they're already familiar with how Apple software works, switching to Mac OS X isn't a big leap to do and using VMWare Fusion or Parallels they'll be able to keep using their Windows software.

Re:Lack of XP support isn't news anymore (1)

saider (177166) | more than 3 years ago | (#36388800)

When people go to buy a new computer in order to get iCloud support, they just might choose a Mac. Remember, the people are already interested in an Apple product.

Also, they simplify the development and support of the Windows client, by only supporting the most recent major release. Windows XP has 3 service packs out, some of which might be a nightmare to code workarounds for.

Re:Lack of XP support isn't news anymore (1)

somersault (912633) | more than 3 years ago | (#36388956)

They seem to be doing fine with the iDevices and iTunes store. Mac sales are pretty much a "halo effect" from those things these days.

If Apple considers MS an enemy, I'd think it's in the same way that the Road Runner considers Wile E Coyote an enemy. He might have a lot of resources at his disposal, but he's a complete bungling idiot when it comes to actually executing any new plans. Zune and WP7 have completely failed to compete with iTunes and iOS..

Re:Vista went down in history with Microsoft Bob (2)

TaoPhoenix (980487) | more than 3 years ago | (#36389154)

See, that's exactly the problem.

When you switch off an OS you have to examine the entire ecosystem effect. Because XP was the only sane choice for EIGHT YEARS that's what Windows computing grew up with.

Suddenly Win7 hasn't really been out that long, and the early reports of Windows 8 are dubious, so it does suddenly seem like they're trying to make continued use of XP painful like a Pavlov experiment.

I won't switch off XP until the upgrade path through *Windows 9* has shaken out. MS is thrashing pretty badly lately, so I don't want to get caught in the Zune of OS decisions until MS figures themselves out again.

Re:Lack of XP support isn't news anymore (1)

eepok (545733) | more than 3 years ago | (#36388746)

You are very right in what you say, but you don't address what most "... but XP will not be supported..." articles take issue with: that the computer companies are still being run like they're part of a high-turn-over consumption-based industry.

The annoyance with not supporting XP is that systems that were shipped with XP towards the end of its support cycle are still "good enough". A then-modern 2009 computer with 3GB of RAM, 500GB of HDD space, and just about any $40 PCI-e video card is enough for a family computer. Grannies, dads, and the like don't really need, nor want to invest in, a modern Windows 7 system (which, lets be honest, is still a RAM hog). And they're not going to buy Windows 7 and to go through the upgrade process.

In the minds of MANY computer users, XP and the accompanying machines are good enough for them and they don't want to spend any more money than is genuinely necessary. Access to any one program just isn't enough to convince them to pay $600 for a full system upgrade. It's all just too much for the lay user.

Re:Lack of XP support isn't news anymore (3, Insightful)

Old97 (1341297) | more than 3 years ago | (#36389164)

With iCloud and iOS5, Grannie can buy an iPad and toss the PC she never learned how to use or manage. iOS5 will use iCloud instead of depending on an iTunes client running on a Mac or Windows PC.

Re:Lack of XP support isn't news anymore (1)

0123456 (636235) | more than 3 years ago | (#36388878)

It's a 10-year old operating system.

This isn't Windows 95 we're talking about: you could still buy PCs with XP last year.

And I don't get the Windows 7 love myself; I don't see what it gives me other than more pointless eye candy and the poorly designed UAC nonsense.

Re:Lack of XP support isn't news anymore (1)

DrgnDancer (137700) | more than 3 years ago | (#36389214)

I'd say you haven't tried it then. Honestly it's a much better operating system (feel free to check my comment history, I'm not a shill for any OS vendor and own computers that use all three of the majors). I resisted upgrading to 7 for quite a while too, but now that I have done so on my home machine I'm just waiting for license purchase to upgrade the work box (No, my company doesn't have volume licensing. Why, when we have a ton of Windows machines? I have no idea. At least we're going that route for the Windows 7 upgrade.) Performance is on par with or better than Windows XP (it is a bit of a RAM hog, but nothing like Vista), 64 bit actually works, lots of under the hood improvements, and honestly after a short adjustment period I like the new UI better. With reasonably modern hardware you will see performance improvement out of 7 over XP. Especially if you game or have 3GB or more of RAM. The new DirectX is starting to be worth it all by itself.

Re:Lack of XP support isn't news anymore (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36389260)

This isn't Windows 95 we're talking about: you could still buy PCs with XP last year.

And there are 40-year-old hookers; that doesn't mean they're good to sleep with.

If you buy something, you get what you pay for... NOT implicit future assurances of support (nor an assurance that your junk won't be itching the next morning).

Re:Lack of XP support isn't news anymore (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36389080)

If they wrote it in .NET or Java it would work just fine on any version of Windows. It's not like a program to copy files to a remote server needs to be in C/C++/ObjectiveC.

I have Windows 7 (1, Funny)

Conspiracy_Of_Doves (236787) | more than 3 years ago | (#36388308)

Someone explain to me why I would want to use iCloud? Or anything from Apple for that matter?

I'm not a Windows fanboy. I just hate Apple more.

If Wine worked perfectly, I'd switch to Linux in a second.

Re:I have Windows 7 (2)

Albanach (527650) | more than 3 years ago | (#36388350)

So your argument is that you don't care if it meets your needs, or is the best tool for the job, the fact it's made by Apple means you refuse to use it? You sound every bit as bad as those kids that type Micro$oft.

Re:I have Windows 7 (1)

Conspiracy_Of_Doves (236787) | more than 3 years ago | (#36388390)

I asked why I would want to use it. That wasn't a rhetorical question. I don't even know what iCloud is. (Yes, I know what cloud computing is, I just don't know what the big deal is with Apple's version)

Re:I have Windows 7 (1)

pherthyl (445706) | more than 3 years ago | (#36388694)

Seamless wireless synching across mobile devices and pcs. If you don't have an iPhone you probably don't have a use for it.
I do have an iPhone, and it is going to be awesome.

Re:I have Windows 7 (3, Insightful)

Yvan256 (722131) | more than 3 years ago | (#36388722)

http://www.apple.com/apple-events/wwdc-2011/ [apple.com]

It's not "cloud computing", it's automatic online synching done right. It's called iCloud simply because "cloud" is today's buzzword.

Re:I have Windows 7 (2)

Nerdfest (867930) | more than 3 years ago | (#36388982)

Doesn't it only sync once a day? (... or that's what I remember from reading the original release) If so, that doesn't really sound like 'done right', although I'm sure the OS integration will be fairly smooth.

Re:I have Windows 7 (5, Insightful)

Yvan256 (722131) | more than 3 years ago | (#36389178)

From the demos done on stage, it syncs everything in real time. Photos taken on an iPhone were sent immediately to the iPad and the Mac, documents edited on one device were pushed to the other devices, etc.

"It just works" comes to mind.

Re:I have Windows 7 (1)

Saint Fnordius (456567) | more than 3 years ago | (#36389202)

Agreed, there really is no "cloud" in the original sense of the word (a virtual machine that is actually hosted on a bunch of servers that can ramp up capacity as needed - thus cloud to mean amourphous). Well, maybe there is, but here "the cloud" is reinterpreted to mean "on a big server somewhere on the internet and not connected to your device".

Re:I have Windows 7 (1)

The Dawn Of Time (2115350) | more than 3 years ago | (#36388920)

When you added "Or anything from Apple, for that matter" you basically undercut any pretense of asking a serious question.

Re:I have Windows 7 (3, Insightful)

saider (177166) | more than 3 years ago | (#36389184)

Apple is a vertically integrated company. Its products work with each other pretty well as long as you follow the Apple way of things. Apple has a vested interest in making sure that has equivalents to compelling new products, like Amazon's music and books service. By controlling it themselves, they can focus on making sure that it works together with other Apple products.

Compare that with the Microsoft way, where they write a big part of it, but rely on partners to fill in the blanks. You have all these independent companies running around doing their own thing without a cohesive vision of what the whole system should be doing.

For people who don't want to mess with their computers and music players and websites etc., Mac is a natural choice. Windows offers a fractured broken system, and Linux is great for those who do like to mess with their computers and music players and websites, etc.

I use all three systems, and the Mac seems to have the fewest problems with Mac stuff working together, as long as you are adhering to the "Mac Way of Doing Things".

Easy to use, consumer stuff - Mac
Can do what you want - Linux
Corporate or Engineering software - Windows

Re:I have Windows 7 (3, Insightful)

Nerdfest (867930) | more than 3 years ago | (#36388402)

Not rewarding companies that do things that people don't like is more important to some than having the latest toys.

Re:I have Windows 7 (1)

bill_mcgonigle (4333) | more than 3 years ago | (#36388506)

If Wine worked perfectly, I'd switch to Linux in a second.

If that's all that's holding you back, look into KVM or VirtualBox - you can run your Windows-only apps natively in a box and the things that run on both you can run on Linux.

Re:I have Windows 7 (2)

tepples (727027) | more than 3 years ago | (#36388588)

But one still needs a $200 copy of Windows to run inside KVM or VirtualBox.

Re:I have Windows 7 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36388686)

One already has it if he is now using windows...

Re:I have Windows 7 (1)

Haedrian (1676506) | more than 3 years ago | (#36389028)

If its anything like the copy of windows which I 'own' its in a hidden partition on my laptop which I can't access unless I want to format everything.

Re:I have Windows 7 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36388858)

GGP already has a copy of Windows.

Re:I have Windows 7 (1)

Colonel Korn (1258968) | more than 3 years ago | (#36389084)

Or a $33 copy of Windows, but if you want to pay MS 6x as much for no reason, feel free.

Re:I have Windows 7 (1)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 3 years ago | (#36389152)

Even an OEM copy of Windows 7 Ultimate doesn't cost that much.

You can buy an entire nettop for not that much more than that and get Windows "for free".

Re:I have Windows 7 (1)

Arlet (29997) | more than 3 years ago | (#36388726)

I love virtualbox, but I wouldn't say it works perfectly. Things requiring DirectX don't always work, and I've also had some trouble with certain USB devices.

Re:I have Windows 7 (1)

mcvos (645701) | more than 3 years ago | (#36389082)

Does it do proper hardware acceleration? That's usually the problem with VMs.

Re:I have Windows 7 (1)

halfEvilTech (1171369) | more than 3 years ago | (#36388606)

There is also currently this loophole - http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/06/07/apple-offers-music-pirates-permanent-amnesty-for-24-99/ [cnn.com]

now granted no one really knows how well this will work yet. But I am sure some people will be more than willing to take advantage of this. Not to mention a free upgrade for all those old drm laden itunes downloads of years pass, since the match comes in the form of the drm free versions.

Re:I have Windows 7 (3, Informative)

DdJ (10790) | more than 3 years ago | (#36388610)

If you don't use anything else from Apple, then you wouldn't want to use iCloud. It's a supplement to their other products and services, and doesn't really have any value if you don't otherwise use any of those products or services.

That help?

Now, if you use their other products or services... let's say you have an iPhone. If you set up iCloud on your Windows box, the photos you snap on the iPhone will automatically appear in a folder on your computer without an explicit sync step or USB connection, and you can sync the bookmarks in Safari on the iPhone to IE on the Windows machine. Similarly, there are benefits for iPad users, iTunes users, people who switch between Windows and MacOS sometimes...

Heck, there are even benefits for people who want to use an iPhone but don't want to load iTunes or any other Apple software on their PC. You can set up the iPhone so that iCloud is the thing it backs up to and syncs with, instead of any PC. So you'd be able to use an iPhone without buying into iTunes or QuickTime and without installing anything on your PC at all. (This is true even if you're an XP user. Or a Linux user, for that matter.)

But the service has no value on its own in isolation. If you don't touch anything else in the Apple ecosystem, best just ignore it completely.

Re:I have Windows 7 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36388894)

I've been saying something similar for the past decade, until finally a few months ago I just had enough and dropped Windows entirely. Once you no longer have Windows to fall back on, you'll be amazed at what you can get to work under Wine with a little more effort. I still play all my MMOs and Steam games (the main reasons I didn't switch before, I'm an avid gamer), while getting the benefits of an OS that doesn't piss me off every other minute. Take the plunge, it's well worth it.

Good (2)

BKX (5066) | more than 3 years ago | (#36388320)

We need to start getting away from XP anyway. It's ancient and insecure compared to other, not-ten-years-old OSs. It annoys me every time I have to work on an XP machine for someone, since I haven't used XP myself in four years, and it's damn near impossible to walk someone through OS related tasks over the phone at this point.

Re:Good (2)

jez9999 (618189) | more than 3 years ago | (#36388636)

Nah. I still use XP on my home machine, and I prefer its interface to that of Windows 7. It's fast and snappy. I have a firewall and no virus protection. I don't install untrusted EXEs and I use secure software. Haven't had a virus/trojan problem... ever. Screw paying MS a ton of money to upgrade; I'm more likely to more to Debian full-time.

Re:Good (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36389192)

Go to a University book store and you can get a copy of Windows 7 for $30.00 at least around my area.

Re:Good (0)

magamiako1 (1026318) | more than 3 years ago | (#36389244)

If you really think your system is secure, I've got a few vulnerabilities to show you. You should not be allowed access to a computer--ever. It's not *JUST* about "not downloading bad stuff and running it." With the massive amount of IFRAME and XSS attacks that go on your system is EXTREMELY vulnerable without even the most basic protections installed. You could have downloaded something and never have known you did it.

Granted, keeping 100% updated on all applications that you use (This includes browsers, browser-based plugins, Windows, even browsers you don't use because you use something else) is a REALLY good way to protect your system from MOST of the problems out there, it is not full proof. There are attacks that use 0-day exploits that you, I, and others don't know about.

The protections put in place with Vista/7, and some extra protections you can get *on top of those* with the Enhanced Mitigation Experience Toolkit goes MUCH FURTHER to providing a more secure host for surfing the net.

But again, it's not perfect. and a multi-tiered approach involving anti-phishing (built in IE8, enhanced in IE9, included in FF4 and Chrome as well; also provided by various AV vendor toolbars, like Symantec), anti-virus/malware, and these protections go MUCH further.

Re:Good (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36388720)

Why is XP insecure? The codebase is smaller and it's been out for longer, so at this point it should have fewer bugs. If you care about security and helping others, clearly you should switch back to XP.

and in other news (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36388352)

that expansion pack for Chip's Challenge is still nowhere to be seen. Move along!

THE NERVE OF THOSE PEOPLE IN CUPERTINO! (0)

AugstWest (79042) | more than 3 years ago | (#36388374)

In before the war starts.

Please keep in mind people, they're just computers. Your choice isn't wrong, neither is the "other side's."

The only phrase stupider than "Drug War" is "OS Wars."

Re:THE NERVE OF THOSE PEOPLE IN CUPERTINO! (2)

Combatso (1793216) | more than 3 years ago | (#36388626)

I lost a cousin in the Cola wars

Re:THE NERVE OF THOSE PEOPLE IN CUPERTINO! (1)

mlts (1038732) | more than 3 years ago | (#36388680)

You should have seen the carnage in the restaurant franchise wars, where the only survivor was Taco Bell.

Re:THE NERVE OF THOSE PEOPLE IN CUPERTINO! (1)

Combatso (1793216) | more than 3 years ago | (#36388774)

I will always remember where i was the day Mayor McCheese was assasinated

Re:THE NERVE OF THOSE PEOPLE IN CUPERTINO! (1)

cpu6502 (1960974) | more than 3 years ago | (#36389090)

>>>Your choice isn't wrong, neither is the "other side's."

I chose Commodore=Amiga which went bankrupt.
Want to revise your comment?
;-)

Stupid Decision. (4, Insightful)

Haedrian (1676506) | more than 3 years ago | (#36388406)

This is a bad decision on their part.

Granted XP is ancient and not very supported, but its still heavily used. If we're talking about end-users, its more likely to go:

"Aww, not supported. I guess I'll use something else"

instead of

"Aww, not supported. Let me pay a few hundred euros to upgrade my OS (and maybe need to improve my hardware) to use this product/service."

Re:Stupid Decision. (1)

rsborg (111459) | more than 3 years ago | (#36388512)

This is a bad decision on their part.

Granted XP is ancient and not very supported, but its still heavily used. If we're talking about end-users, its more likely to go:

"Aww, not supported. I guess I'll use something else"

instead of

"Aww, not supported. Let me pay a few hundred euros to upgrade my OS (and maybe need to improve my hardware) to use this product/service."

And when confronted with the choice of paying those hundreds of euros/dollars for a silly OS license on their non-compliant box as opposed to a few hundred more shekels for shiny new Mac...

I don't think it's a bad idea at all. Not only is supporting a 10 year old OS more costly, forcing the upgrade could net Apple some new Mac owners (perhaps they'll choose a PC for upgrading, that's ok too)

Again, Apple doesn't lose if Microsoft somehow gains by their actions.

Re:Stupid Decision. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36388848)

could be more like thouthands more shekels. Here in israel (I assume you are here too, due to the use of shekel) it is like 2.5k (http://www.ivory.co.il/product.asp?productid=4150&CatCode=1) for a nice core i5 with 4gigs of ram and 430GT while and imac (which is not much better hardwarewise if at all) costs 6k for entry imac. (http://store.idigital.co.il/mac/imac)
notebooks with same specs as macbook cost 2k while the macbook costs 4k.
And the price of windows is only 450 shekels for OEM so it is still thouthands of differance..

Re:Stupid Decision. (1)

wintercolby (1117427) | more than 3 years ago | (#36389254)

Your point assumes that the end user doesn't just decide to use the Amazon Cloud Drive [amazon.com] for free, instead. We're talking about people that have been resistant to change or cheap enough to stick to a 10 year old OS. We're not talking about people that like to waste money on a new iProduct or want to figure out a different UI. Apple will be lucky if their existing users move over to the service, much less use it to encourage new customers to spring for the expensive walled garden.

Re:Stupid Decision. (1)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 3 years ago | (#36388564)

Either way it goes the most likely set of choices will be:

      a) Not bother with iCloud at all.
      b) Buy a new Dell with Windows 7 on it.

Neither is really in Apple's interest.

I think I'm fine (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36388446)

you'll need a PC running Windows Vista or Windows 7

Is this "Windows 7 or above"? Because I'm 91 versions ahead.

Re:I think I'm fine (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36388596)

Amateur. I'm 1993 versions ahead.

Shocking? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36388448)

Hardly, Apple has a habit of only supporting things back so far. Them supporting a 10 year old OS is a great achievement in their books. Both my iPhone and MacBook Pro have been left in the dust after even 2 years because they don't support that hardware/software/configuration anymore. To say we didn't see this coming, would be a joke.

Evil now has a minimum system requirement (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36388464)

Just say NO to Apple, and you and your computer will be much happier! No one looking over your shoulder...no one "verifying" your files. No one to "protect" you from the twin evils of pornography and Adobe Flash. Just say NO to "Big Brother" Jobs and his "magical" crap!

So? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36388486)

Speaking as a Mac user, are there really that many people who (1) Are still using WinXP and (2) Are at all interested in iCloud?

I doubt it.

Re:So? (1)

RobertLTux (260313) | more than 3 years ago | (#36388634)

well if you figure that a good number of folks have yet to bother "upgrading" to Vista or 7 and have computers than are 6 or 8 years old the big question is how many folks have these computers and are online enough to actually want an iCloud??

Stop with the iCrap (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36388504)

Is anyone else getting sick of iEverything? I mean, I hate Apple regardless, but this crap is just annoying.

No surprise - it's Apple's modus operandi (3, Insightful)

cpu6502 (1960974) | more than 3 years ago | (#36388522)

Not only do they not support 98, or 2000, or XP, they also don't support any OS X older than 10.5 (example: Safari and iTunes).

It is simply part of Apple culture not to supply software to older OSes. It forces the user to upgrade (i.e. spend money), and I'm not surprised Apple applies the same tactic to PCs that has worked so well for Macs.

Re:No surprise - it's Apple's modus operandi (1)

DdJ (10790) | more than 3 years ago | (#36388816)

It is simply part of Apple culture not to supply software to older OSes. It forces the user to upgrade (i.e. spend money), and I'm not surprised Apple applies the same tactic to PCs that has worked so well for Macs.

That "i.e. spend money" part is misleading, IMHO. Apple does not make a ton of money on OS upgrades. 10.6 was incredibly cheap and 10.7 is looking to be even cheaper.

That said, the reason I said "misleading" instead of "wrong" is that it does force hardware upgrades. My old Macintosh that's got a Core Duo CPU instead of a Core 2 Duo CPU will not be able to run Lion at all -- it's going to be 64-bit-only with no 32-bit CPU support. If I could upgrade the OS on it, doing so would be cheap, but I cannot, so the hardware will have to be replaced. And Apple is a hardware company.

(The dynamics are different in Windowsville.)

Re:No surprise - it's Apple's modus operandi (1)

tlhIngan (30335) | more than 3 years ago | (#36389134)

Not only do they not support 98, or 2000, or XP, they also don't support any OS X older than 10.5 (example: Safari and iTunes).

It is simply part of Apple culture not to supply software to older OSes. It forces the user to upgrade (i.e. spend money), and I'm not surprised Apple applies the same tactic to PCs that has worked so well for Macs.

Actually, considering the current version of OS X is 10.6 (Snow Leopard),, it means they should've dropped 10.5 support a long while ago - 2009 or so when 10.6 was released. 10.5 came out in 2007.

Historically, Apple supports the current and last versions of their OS, which is why Safari and iTunes are running on 10.5.

If you've got an Intel Mac, you're good - all Intel Macs are supported by 10.6. If you've got a PowerPC G4 Mac you can run 10.5 and it'll be supported until the end of the year, which would be a stunningly long life for some hardware (over 10 years for the PowerBook G4). But when Lion comes out, all support for the PowerPC line will be dropped as only Lion and Snow Leopard are under official support.

Hell, Firefox stopped supporting 10.4 as of Firefox 4. The only salvation being it's open-source soyou can get TenFourFox [floodgap.com] which is Firefox 4 built for 10.4.

Anyhow, iTunes stopped supporting Windows 2000 ages ago - I think around iTunes 8 or so, but since Microsoft discontinued support, they dropped the old Windows 2000 link as well.

(Though, the only reason Apple supports 2 versions is lag - the number of people running older OSes drops significantly - when 10.5 came out, the proportion of people running 10.3 was pretty small (most ran 10.4), and likewise, when 10.6 came out, 10.4 were a small minority. Not too small at 10.7 though as it means there will no longer be an OS for PowerPC Macs, which are still a good chunk of users.

The situation is a much worse for iOS users since Apple really only supports the last two versions - iPhone 3Gs and iPhone 4, while iPhone/iPhone 3G users are left out in the dust (especially since some are still in contract).

I run Windows XP SP2 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36388524)

Not that I care remotely about icloud(more proprietary bs), but the reason Windows XP is so popular is because it just runs so well. Now I stay a few years behind on hardware anyway to not throw money away as I once did, but take my current laptop with a T4200 chip, 3gb ram. It came with windows 7, and ran slower, it also used nearly a gig of ram just to startup. Now it's available for my use more where it's needed.

It's my opinion 'now' the only thing the industry is doing is adding token features(that could easily be added to XP) and BLOAT to encourage upgrading. If we stuck with an OS for 10 years think of how much better the 'computer world' would be, Standards resolved and holes/bugs patched, new AND old computers would 'actually be faster'. As time progressed it would be more and more optimized...

Re:I run Windows XP SP2 (1)

cos(0) (455098) | more than 3 years ago | (#36389050)

Speaking of "holes/bugs patched", why don't you upgrade to SP3?

iWhat? (1)

demonbug (309515) | more than 3 years ago | (#36388544)

Oh darn, I guess I won't be jumping on the cloud bandwagon since 50% of my computers (lappy Core 2 Duo [woe unto him who does not get the lappy reference]) are still on XP. I was looking forward to... well, I'm not really sure what iCloud does, but I'm sure it must be exciting since I see mention of it (but very little explanation) all over the place. Maybe it involves BitCoins?

No thanks. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36388546)

I'd rather keep the last good OS from Microsoft than be ripped off by Apple and, funnily enough, Microsoft.

Windows Vis7a is a freak child of an OS that is undecided as to whether it is a desktop OS or a tablet OS. (note the 7, 7 IS VISTA)
Security system is just as laughable as XPs, in fact, more so because it enforces "CLICK ANYTHING TO GET THIS SHIT WINDOW AWAY" mentality.
The only decent new things are a few UI features (peek, easy window management), better symlink support, new start menu, slightly better control panel.
But those can all be added to XP very easily. Hell, half of them already existed in OSes before XP was even thought up, never mind Vis7a.

So keep your iCrap, Apple. I'd rather use many other, better, internet digital lockers and a good... well, not good, but decent Windows OS.
Might try out Win8 if they fixed all the terrible crap in Vis7a, but no doubt they will wreck that too.
I'm actually really loving the interface prototypes they had up. But whether they make those good to use for a mouse&keyboard is another question.
Besides, the only reason I'd ever upgrade is for games. (only reason I use Windows)
At least most Linux distros don't shoot themselves in the foot. And they have decent support for web browsers too. All I need.

Win- what? (0)

mrthoughtful (466814) | more than 3 years ago | (#36388558)

I'm an apple 'fanboy'. But when Vista came out, I thought - maybe I should give MSFT another chance - after all, AAPL was getting big.

That lasted a very short time, and one totally useless and expensive Sony Vaio with built-in Vista later, I went back to AAPL.
Lots of other people went back to XP, I hear.

Since then, AAPL have become richer than MSFT. I'm not surprised. Vista was an unmitigated commercial disaster. I wonder if MSFT will ever recover. Unfortunately for me, and probably many others, Windows 7 was way too late.

Re:Win- what? (1)

Combatso (1793216) | more than 3 years ago | (#36388748)

as a computer savvy "user" who doesnt give a flying leap about logo's.. I took the five minutes to look up some Vista reviews before spending an ass load of money... end result, I never owned it... same logic kept me from buying an Apple... I ended up with a consumer grade laptop for under 500 dollars that was mroe than capable of what I wanted it for, and a slap-together-from-bits desktop for even less that was able to do some of the more intensive stuff i wanted...

Now, I find myself with a windows 7 machine that I love, and a work laptop running 7.... I want a Mac for the first time ever, just dont wanna spend (what I believe to be) too much money for one...

using Sony and Vista as examples of why Apple might be better is like saying Baseball is better than Hockey becuase I got hit in the nuts with a puck one day at walmart

Re:Win- what? (1)

Bengie (1121981) | more than 3 years ago | (#36389026)

Well, being that Win7 has been the best selling OS ever and has been averaging 297,600 copies sold per day for the past 2 years, I would say they haven't been hurt much.

46% of businesses polled in the past few months are planning on upgrading to Win7 in the next year and 88% say "eventually". Sales should go up really soon.

BTW, MSFT has nothing to fear from AAPL in the enterprise because AAPL is one of the worst platforms to manage. I would sooner manage Linux than Apple in a large enterprise. And since people work with MS at work, that's what they use at home. As more companies switch to Win7 at work, more people at home will switch also as they won't want to use one OS at work and one at home.

From a gamers perspective, DirectX 11 is awesome and several big titles are coming out soon. If you want the fastest and best graphics, you will use Win7.

I usually have nothing but hate for Jobs... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36388568)

...but I love him for this.

I'm sick and tired of jumping through hoops for people with a god damn old as dirt OS.

Upgrade or don't ask me for help.
...Granted I can't say that at work, no matter how much I want to.

Re:I usually have nothing but hate for Jobs... (1)

JinjaontheNile (2217694) | more than 3 years ago | (#36389092)

I don't mind friends and family asking for help in XP, There's a good chance I already know the answer and the rest don't need that much effort.
Anything they are likely to do or want has usually already been done.

Windows 7 support usually involves explaining why they need to click OK so often (I am looking squarely at Adobe here) Yes, I want to update, Yes I give permission to Update, Yes I want to download the update, Yes I accept the terms and conditions, Yes I am happy you finished updating. Yes I want you to stop asking stupid questions.

iOS5 + XP? (1)

aahpandasrun (948239) | more than 3 years ago | (#36388580)

I honestly doubt anyone running something with iOS 5 in the fall would also have Windows XP. I have to use it at work, but that's a different issue.

Re:iOS5 + XP? (1)

mcvos (645701) | more than 3 years ago | (#36389138)

I have WinXP at home. I use it to play games, and I refuse to give money to Microsoft just because the best games happen to be only released for their platform.

about effing time -- get off Windows XP (-1, Troll)

xxdesmus (932581) | more than 3 years ago | (#36388604)

If you're still on Windows XP (and you're a home user) than you are an idiot. Update and move on for the love of god. The majority of Windows XP users will be corporate sheep anyway -- and they don't need to be using iTunes/iCloud anyway.

There is nothing wrong with running XP now (4, Insightful)

axl917 (1542205) | more than 3 years ago | (#36388958)

If you're still on Windows XP (and you're a home user) than you are an idiot. Update and move on for the love of god. The majority of Windows XP users will be corporate sheep anyway -- and they don't need to be using iTunes/iCloud anyway.

Times like these I wish I was more active here and had the points to spend to send your post into troll/flamebait oblivion.

People like you are the embodiment of that "your laptop/phone/tv is already outdated" tv commercial.

We don't need to ditch perfectly working computers simply to be on the latest-and-greatest side of things. I have XP at home, I play some older games on it, some stuff from Steam, and stream Netflix. It does what I want it to do, and I'm quite certain many others would say the same. Why should people spend money that they don't need to, just to appease some twitchy teenager on the internet who does the "OMG OLD" shtick?

Re:about effing time -- get off Windows XP (1)

mcvos (645701) | more than 3 years ago | (#36389170)

Update to what? And how? I don't think there's a free XP -> something else update available anywhere. Except to linux, obviously, but that doesn't meet my main requirement. XP, crappy though it may be, does meet my main requirement.

Let's give Apple some credit (2)

jockm (233372) | more than 3 years ago | (#36388658)

I love how little credit The Register gives Apple when they say "According to the latest stats, this means that almost half of all PC users will not be able to access iCloud." Given that Apple has usage statistics of the people who use iTunes, I am willing to bet they know exactly how many of their customers with iCloud compatible devices are running on XP and made a very educated decision that dropping XP support wouldn't alienate that many users.

As others have already pointed out, XP is a decade old OS now, and two versions back. It is OK to start phasing our support. First for apps that run primarily in peoples homes, and then eventually to what runs in business environments.

Specific technical reason its not supported? (1)

swb (14022) | more than 3 years ago | (#36388728)

And I mean specific -- "In order to interact with iCloud, we need OS function calls DoFooBarian and MangleDataButGood and built-in networking service XMLSmell" and not some generic "its older and less secure".

Whatever Apple is doing with iCloud probably is more in their code and less in Windows and probably has no real dependency on Windows 7.

My gut instinct is this is less about some technical need of iCloud on Windows but more about Apple making a cost benefit decision that providing the broader support (end users, installer packaging, etc) wasn't worth it.

At least now I have more motivation to replace my otherwise trusty Q6600 XP system.

Re:Specific technical reason its not supported? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36389042)

You're asking in the wrong place. Slashdot hasn't been the place for reasoned technical explanations since, well, ever. Read all the rest of the comments if you don't believe me.

Re:Specific technical reason its not supported? (1)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 3 years ago | (#36389216)

I suspect that this is just a broader general support policy. They drop support for older versions of Windows. They may or may not even put any serious thought into the process. They simply might not bother with the finer points since they will gladly leave their own users out in the cold. Once they think they are doing something "for your own good", there's probably nothing that's going to stop them.

Why use iCloud ? (1)

Vapula (14703) | more than 3 years ago | (#36388856)

Why use such services as iCloud when you can buy a good synology with a few HDD and get ultra fast speed on your LAN and good support through the internet (including smartphones... My android has he official Synology audio application installed for easy and secure access to music streaming)

No big brother to watch what you're storing on your system, shared folders which work under PC, Mac and unix systems, dlna server, ...

Security reasons (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36389046)

Apple is fully aware of the fact that they might help Microsoft to accelerate the switch to Windows 7, but their concern lies in the many security flaws XP has to offer. Apple simply does not want to get blamed for hacked iCloud accounts only because some dude used an infected XP machine to access his clouded data.

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