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Chinese Tianhe-1A Supercomputer Starts Churning Out the Science

Soulskill posted more than 3 years ago | from the thousands-of-feynmans-per-hour dept.

China 103

gupg writes "When China built the world's fastest supercomputer based on NVIDIA GPUs last year, a lot of naysayers said this was just a stunt machine. Well, guess what — here comes the science! They are working on better material for solar panels and they ran the world's fastest simulation ever. NVIDIA (whose GPUs accelerate these applications as a co-processor) blogged on this a while ago, where they talk about how the US really needs to up its investment in high performance computing."

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When will it be used for its real purpose... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36404790)

I just wonder how long it will be after the hoopla goes away before this machine starts being used for its real purpose it was bought for... brute forcing cryptographic keys and signatures, and perhaps an occassional factor of an RSA key or two.

Re:When will it be used for its real purpose... (5, Funny)

snookerhog (1835110) | more than 3 years ago | (#36404834)

you mean it is not for mining bitcoins?

Re:When will it be used for its real purpose... (1)

toastar (573882) | more than 3 years ago | (#36405010)

you mean it is not for mining bitcoins?

Nah If they were going to mine bitcoins they would gone with ATI.

Re:When will it be used for its real purpose... (1)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 3 years ago | (#36405048)

Unless somebody has substantially improved factorization techniques, I'm pretty sure that this machine doesn't much change the world of what is safe vs. what is broken.

I suspect that it can churn through some nice offline hash attacks; but offline hash attacks generally imply that the break-in has already succeeded. Applications where the public keys are exposed to the world by design(TLS, digital signatures, etc.) try for a much greater margin of safety. If somebody is using a crypto setup so weak that a thousands to millionfold increase in available power seriously threatens them, they have issues(the remaining users of 56-bit DES should probably be crying).

Re:When will it be used for its real purpose... (1)

crunchygranola (1954152) | more than 3 years ago | (#36405470)

Naah... for that they will be using the big brother of this machine which not mentioned in this article because it is classified. Do you think the Chinese tell everyone about their national security projects?

Re:When will it be used for its real purpose... (3, Insightful)

sortius_nod (1080919) | more than 3 years ago | (#36406038)

I think The Chinese government has much better ways of spying on people than to hog processor time on such a public machine. He'll, they don't even need to break RSA keys anymore.

I love how people jump to the conclusion that any powerful computer that we learn about in China is suddenly s security threat. It's the ones they don't tell you about that you should be concerned about.

Funny how people marvel if it's the US but run in fear if it's China. Both have terrible track records when it comes to human rights.

Re:When will it be used for its real purpose... (1)

ScrewMaster (602015) | more than 3 years ago | (#36411480)

Funny how people marvel if it's the US but run in fear if it's China. Both have terrible track records when it comes to human rights.

Funny how people keep comparing the United States and China (or more explicitly, the United States Federal Government with the Peoples Republic of China, which isn't exactly a Republic.) Usually it's people who haven't spent any time in either country, and know nothing about either culture. The reason is pretty obvious: it's an attempt to tear down the U.S. in people's minds by associating it with the world's largest totalitarian state, and by definition indicates that the individual making the claim knows very well that China's track record is far worse. Otherwise, the claim would be on the order of "Funny how people marvel if it's China but run in fear if it's the U.S." Trial lawyers use the same trick: mention the defendant in the same breath as the accused, try to take the defendant down a notch or two. It's more than a little sleazy, but on small-minded people it is often effective. Besides, what do human rights have to do with this? At best, we're talking simple espionage (which I would certainly hope that we are just as guilty of doing to them), and at worst, acts of war.

However, I agree with you about this particular supercomputer. Like most such states, the Chinese government is very concerned about world opinion (because most of the world doesn't take kindly to (ahem!) "authoritarian" governments.) Like the Soviet Union before it, China's leaders want to show off their technological prowess, demonstrate their superiority to the West. They should be careful about doing that, however. Russia touched off the Space Race by launching Sputnik, so sometimes there are unintended consequences to such posturing. Hell, U.S. monitoring of Sputnik's transmissions was a source of inspiration for what ultimately became the Global Positioning System. Fact is, it can be risky to galvanize your enemy into taking action with a PR stunt: that's especially true with a country like the U.S. when the people get fired up about something: government officials often have to respond, if nothing else to keep their jobs. It's not exactly a rational way to handle things, but that is often how it works.

The difference here is that a lot of us could implicitly grasp how important control over near-space was to our security, and supported space development at the time. Today, not so much: I doubt that many of my fellow Americans give a damn about supercomputers, or would even have the slightest idea of their value, and what can be accomplished with them. And I'd say you're also right that this probably not China's most powerful machine: they'd be fools to let us know their true capabilities in this regard.

Nor are are the U.S.-based supercomputing systems that we know about anywhere near the real top-of-the-line: nobody really knows what the NSA has at its disposal, for example. But I can pretty much guarantee that they aren't toys.

Ah, the science of cracking passwords. . . (0)

GKThursday (952030) | more than 3 years ago | (#36404792)

We all know what this computer will really be used for. . .

Re:Ah, the science of cracking passwords. . . (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36404828)

Bitcoins.

Re:Ah, the science of cracking passwords. . . (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36404954)

Too bad nvidia cards suck for bitcoins. Joke's on China.

Re:Ah, the science of cracking passwords. . . (2)

Lunix Nutcase (1092239) | more than 3 years ago | (#36404884)

Rendering photo-realistic 3D tentacle porn for the Japanese?

Of course (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36404856)

I have no problem with the message, but of course the GM of the GPU Computing unit wants the US to buy more NVIDIA GPUs.

the US is broke (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36404862)

> US really needs to up its investment in high performance computing

Yeah... maybe China will loan the US some more money to do that with.

Re:the US is broke (1)

Hijacked Public (999535) | more than 3 years ago | (#36404882)

You know what they say about capitalists and rope...

Re:the US is broke (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36404948)

Good call. I was looking for the perfect word to describe the whole sordid process of one government using its governmental authority to rack up debt, financed by another government by stealing the wealth of or outright enslaving its citizens, and "capitalism" just fits so perfectly.

Re:the US is broke (1)

khallow (566160) | more than 3 years ago | (#36406578)

"capitalism" just fits so perfectly.

That's such a "neo-con" thing to say. Not everyone uses words like you think they should. Maybe you should read a dictionary to see how words are supposed to be used.

I do know what they say (1)

KingAlanI (1270538) | more than 3 years ago | (#36407440)

"A good capitalist will sell you the rope you hang him with" is, AFAIK, a Karl Marx aphorism

Re:the US is broke (2)

nigelo (30096) | more than 3 years ago | (#36404970)

> US really needs to up its investment in high performance computing

More like: 'we've upped our investment, now up yours!"

Re:the US is broke (1)

blue trane (110704) | more than 3 years ago | (#36405356)

We need to use Reagan's strategy of deficit spending to out-innovate China.

Re:the US is broke (2)

AHuxley (892839) | more than 3 years ago | (#36407854)

Dont worry the CIA understands China, like it understood the Soviets.
At anytime they can induce cults, fads, music, addictive sci fi, secessionist movements, hardware, software issues, payment issues, NGO "outrageous", intellectual property, middle class rights, property bubbles ect.

Re:the US is broke (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36405294)

Chances are they stole the technical data necesary to build the thing from the US to start with. It's a hell of a lot cheaper stealing others R&D then generating your own.

Re:the US is broke (2)

dbIII (701233) | more than 3 years ago | (#36409514)

Didn't you even read the summary? They didn't steal it, they bought it from Nvidia just like anyone else can.

Re:the US is broke (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36405414)

which will likely be spent in financing another war instead.

No shit? (2)

Lunix Nutcase (1092239) | more than 3 years ago | (#36404874)

NVIDIA (whose GPUs accelerate these applications as a co-processor) blogged on this a while ago, where they talk about how the US really needs to up its investment in high performance computing."

This just in: Company who makes GPUs for supercomputers thinks that people should buy more of their GPUs.

Re:No shit? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36405024)

Breaking New: Tired cliché response gets used yet again! Film, at 11.

Just because they can profit from it doesn't make it any less true.

Re:No shit? (1)

Lunix Nutcase (1092239) | more than 3 years ago | (#36405052)

Yeah, the US government really needs to be spending even more money than it doesn't already have.

Re:No shit? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36405476)

Debt is a distraction. Ask Dick Cheney, "Reagan proved that deficits don't matter."

Re:No shit? (2)

dbIII (701233) | more than 3 years ago | (#36409530)

As just about everything Cheney did proved, nothing he said mattered because it was unlikely to match any sort of truth or reality. Hopefully that episode of a VP acting like a medieval prince and pissing all over the ideas of a Republic and a Democracy will not be repeated for a while.
Go ask the UK, Iceland, Greece, Spain etc if debt is merely a distraction. Going too far down that road would mean that the USA would learn about how the USSR fell apart in Reagan's time - only they'd be watching it on their own streets.

Re:No shit? (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 3 years ago | (#36410034)

You don't want to lose the country's AAA credit rating though.

Re:No shit? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36405068)

>> Company who makes GPUs for supercomputers thinks that people should buy more of their GPUs.

Country who owns all the US dept would like for the US to keep purchasing on credit.

And talk about BS (3, Insightful)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 3 years ago | (#36405398)

"The US really needs to up its investment in high performance computing."

Really? Well let's have a look at the top500 list shall we? Now while Linpack leaves some things to be desired (like the fact that clusters perform better on it than they can on some things like particle simulation) but it is the standard.

So of the top 10 system 5, half, are in the US. #2, 5, 7, 8 and 10 are US computers. The next 10? 7 of them in the US. So 12 of the top 20 are US systems. Most of them are US government systems too, and the ones that aren't are university. So not like "Big companies that happen to be in the US," but research universities and government research agencies like the DOE and so on.

It also isn't stopping. The Advanced Simulation & Computing Program (formerly ASCI) is going on and more computers are being built. LANL has chosen Cray to build the next one, Cielo. It is partially complete and online now, though still being added to. Currently #10 on the list, it will move up a bit when it is complete.

So I don't see the US as not investing in this.

What I see them not doing is buying nVidia GPU based systems, which is fine. GPUs are neat and all but they are not as general purpose as CPUs. They are stream processors. Now if your project is one that stream processors are good at then great. However not all projects are. Particle simulation, that I mentioned before, is one that stream processors aren't so good at. So just because something is higher on the Linpack based top500, doesn't mean it is faster at everything.

Regardless, it isn't like the US needs to be on the number 1 spot to be good. The more telling fact is how many are there, that the US has over half of the systems in the top 20. Clearly supercomputers are something the US has plenty of. Keep going down the list and you keep seeing a lot of US systems.

This is just nVidia trying to play on the whole patriotism thing to make sales.

Re:And talk about BS (1)

cashman73 (855518) | more than 3 years ago | (#36405650)

Just because the Chinese popped in there with #1, doesn't mean that we're losing our domination in the industry all of a sudden. Plans are well on the way for the next generation of supercomputers [insidehpc.com] . We're talking about 20 petaflops and up,. . .

Re:And talk about BS (2)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | more than 3 years ago | (#36405806)

So of the top 10 system 5, half, are in the US. #2, 5, 7, 8 and 10 are US computers

On the other hand, 10 years ago the US had 7 of the top 10, including #1, #2, #3 and #4.

And? (2)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 3 years ago | (#36409544)

Is the US the only country that is allowed to be any good at this? To me it seems the story isn't the US investment in supercomputing is dropping, because it isn't. The story is that other countries are investing more in it. That is a good thing IMO. The US shouldn't be the be-all, end-all of research.

Also please remember the nature of these things are that you get displaced. You are #1, someone builds a new #1. It isn't like you can just whack out a new one. Supercomptuers take a lot of time and money to build.

Re:And? (1)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | more than 3 years ago | (#36411008)

To me it seems the story isn't the US investment in supercomputing is dropping, because it isn't.

You seem to be saying that the only metric that counts is number of dollars spent year to year. The ignores the entire point of the TOP500 list which is to compare countries and companies relative to each other.

You are #1, someone builds a new #1. It isn't like you can just whack out a new one.

I didn't cherry-pick the 10 year timeline, it was the first and only data point I checked. But you are welcome to show that the trend is something other than suggested by those two data points.

Re:And? (2)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 3 years ago | (#36413436)

Again, you are under the impression that this is some kind of contest the US is "losing" that if the US doesn't have the #1 spot and most of the other high spots that is a "problem" for the US.

It isn't. It is a win for the whole world. I think it is more false patriotism BS. Too many people in the US have this idea that if you aren't the top in everything, it is a complete and total failure. You see this with things like people bemoaning the US becoming #2 to China in manufacturing output (happened this year), as though the world will end if you aren't #1.

Well guess what? I've traveled the world a bit and been to a number of countries not the US. They are not #1 in most things, often not #2, #3 or so on. Turns out they are quite nice places to live, with happy people and stable societies. Canada, Norway, England, all places I'd be happy to live and they are "#1" in almost nothing.

My point is it doesn't matter that the US isn't #1 on this list, in part because Linpack isn't the worlds best benchmark, but also because it distorts the issue. If the US was spending less on supercomputing, if it was getting out of that kind of research, that might be problem. However it isn't, it is spending as much as ever. It is just other countries are getting in to it too.

Life isn't a race where only one person, or one nation wins, and everyone else loses and it sucks for them. We can make things better for all of us and we can all come out better for it.

Re:And? (1)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | more than 3 years ago | (#36413566)

Again, you are under the impression that this is some kind of contest

That was nvidia's premise after all. You disputed the premise, I supported it using the same data that you cited.

Re:And talk about BS (2)

wisty (1335733) | more than 3 years ago | (#36409608)

On the other hand, 10 years ago most Chinese were riding bicycles. Now they have electric scooters, and are lusting after cars. And it's a much larger country than the US.

It's a matter of GDP multiplied by government commitment to HPC. Both China and the US have a similar commitments to HPC, so I'd expect China will overtake the US in 10 years.

As an Australian, this doesn't bother me. If we are number 1 per capita, we are happy. The US wants to be number 1, which will simply not happen when China is 3 times the size. In 10 years, China will be the arrogant giant that pats itself on the back for being number 1, even if it has low achievements per capita.

The US will have to stop considering itself a giant when the rest of the world grows up.

Re:And talk about BS (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 3 years ago | (#36410058)

And? Being high up on lists like that is mostly good for dick waving. What does it matter if your supercomputer is #1 or #5 if it does its job?

Re:And talk about BS (1)

timeOday (582209) | more than 3 years ago | (#36406110)

So of the top 10 system 5, half, are in the US. #2, 5, 7, 8 and 10 are US computers.

We're #2! We're #2!!!

Just doesn't have the same ring to it...

Re:And talk about BS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36407666)

Yeah, once you fully subscribe to the competitive ethos, no-one gives a rat's arse who number 2 is. You know, like when the Axis powers came second in WW2 :-)

Re:And talk about BS (1)

RicktheBrick (588466) | more than 3 years ago | (#36406496)

World Community Grid is sponsored by IBM. They are approaching a half a million years of donated cpu time. They do not even have to purchase the gpu since the volunteers do that. The only thing they do need to do is to write the program to utilize the gpu the members pocess. Even after several member asking them to utilize their gpu, they have not done so. It still must be too expensive or difficult to program the gpu or IBM would have done it years ago.

Re:And talk about BS (0)

Rockoon (1252108) | more than 3 years ago | (#36406904)

They are approaching a half a million years of donated cpu time.

The dumbest least informative metric ever. Seriously.

Re:And talk about BS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36406654)

I would prefer that we concentrate more on Intel's Knight's Corner CPU with 32cores. Also Tilera's 64core boards. These are general processing systems, unlike GPUs, and can be easily utilized by programming languages like MPI/OCaml/Erlang... Which is what I use. GPUs... not general enough, and interfacing with them through CUDA or other packages only makes the code more convoluted, and more difficult to expand later. I'll just stick to my Kinght's Corner and Tilera.

Re:And talk about BS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36409192)

You do MPI between nodes, and the OpenMP/OpenCL/CUDA/other + your favourite programming language "nodewise." KC or Tilera's integer cores can't solve the cluster issue. Otherwise you need to call SGI, for example.

Re:And talk about BS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36406808)

"The US really needs to up its investment in high performance computing." When comparing US with China in some areas, I think which direction we are heading is much more important than where we are now. I bought a house one hour away from my workplace just for the good schools. My daughter will be starting kindergarten this year, but I just learn that the student/teacher ratio in the school has changed again from 25:1 to 30:1 because California continues to cut funding for education. The standard should be 20:1 Comparing classes with 50 students in China, the number is still good, but the direction we heading really worries me

Re:And talk about BS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36407124)

It depends on perspective.

The average for the US is having around 7 in the top 10 and around 12 in the top 20 (as you just said). However, checking the list, a couple of years ago the top 8 were US based. Now those have been shifted 7 places down and China holds 1 and 3, when they were not in the list before.

But all and all, it's just a wave of investment that companies/governments do to show off anyways.

Re:And talk about BS (1)

adamchou (993073) | more than 3 years ago | (#36408094)

Sure, the US might have the majority of the spots. But look at the difference between spots 1 and 2. Just rationalizing it as we have the most spots is insignificant when you realize that the #1 system has a max theoretical of more than double the #2 system

Re:And talk about BS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36408610)

Alas we are electing science/engineering ignorant humanities-based-lawyers as our congressmen/women who do not understand that an economic power of a country depends on innovation. Thus, instead of finding the best way to encourage more scientific and engineering innovation, they are cutting funds and hope we still will be #1. What a shame. We need not only the best technology but also the scientifically trained human power for innovations. Look at the poorly educated high school kids with no scope of happiness in their life. Politicians who created this wonderful country once, now are destroying it bit by bit for their own political gains. So let us not brag who has the best technology but how to create a better USA.

Re:And talk about BS (1)

synthespian (563437) | more than 3 years ago | (#36408788)

Are the Chinese running their stuff on Kylin-on-clusters? a FreeBSD officially sanctioned by the government as "the" official OS, see:

http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/security/china-chooses-freebsd-as-basis-for-secure-os/1682 [techrepublic.com]

http://www.freebsdnews.net/2011/01/04/kylin-chinese-freebsd-based-secure-os/ [freebsdnews.net]

Re:And talk about BS (1)

IrquiM (471313) | more than 3 years ago | (#36410190)

Say what you want - you're still second!

Re:No shit? (1)

im_thatoneguy (819432) | more than 3 years ago | (#36406176)

Not to mention I can't help but feel like a Communist Party member wrote the blog entry or else a clueless American who poorly chose their words...

China has made the great leap into next-generation, hybrid supercomputing by using GPUs to drive far better efficiency and performance, more economically.

As inflated statistics reached planning authorities, orders were given to divert human resources into industry rather than agriculture. The official toll of excess deaths recorded in China for the years of the Great Leap Forward is 14 million, but as of 1987, scholars had estimated the number of victims to be between 20 and 43 million.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward [wikipedia.org]

Re:No shit? (1)

Legal.Troll (2002574) | more than 3 years ago | (#36407234)

In related news, China is eager for us to develop cutting-edge technology faster, so they'll have more to steal as part of the most awesometastic double-dipping scheme ever.

Re:No shit? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36411246)

Nonsense. We will just buy time on the Chinese systems. This is America, we fucking outsource everything. we even get some of our babies from foreign countries. Look at Brad and Angelina.

A super computer.doing science? (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36404934)

Is there cake?

Re:A super computer.doing science? (1)

AndrewNeo (979708) | more than 3 years ago | (#36404988)

They put behind the same door as the emergency shutdown.

Re:A super computer.doing science? (1)

jameskojiro (705701) | more than 3 years ago | (#36406146)

"Science isn't about why, it's about why not. You ask: Why is so much of our science dangerous? I say: Why not marry safe science if you love it so much. In fact, why not invent a special safety door that won't hit you in the butt on the way out, because you are fired." Cave Johnson

World's fastest simulation (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36404940)

int main() {
return 42;
}

Fastest simulation of what? What does that even mean!?!?

Re:World's fastest simulation (1)

Lunix Nutcase (1092239) | more than 3 years ago | (#36404956)

On Thursday, researchers from the Chinese Academy of Sciences' Institute of Process Engineering (CAS-IPE) claimed to have run a molecular simulation code at 1.87 petaflops -- the highest floating point performance ever achieved by a real-world application code.

Chicom supercomputer (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36404952)

Big deal, we use our supercomputers to play Jeopardy...LOSERS!

Not the fastest (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36404992)

Rumors on the dark web say the NSA has got something faster. 500Ghz+ per node...

Re:Not the fastest (2)

the linux geek (799780) | more than 3 years ago | (#36405072)

Anyone that measures aggregate CPU performance on a cluster in "GHz" is an idiot.

Question is (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36405070)

up its investment in

Will the Chinese continue loaning us enough money to do that?

Doesn't look like it. [yahoo.com]

Obligatory: Will It Run +6, Interesting (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36405096)

Stuxnet [youtube.com] ?

Yours In Krasnoyarsk,
Kilgore Trout

Why bother? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36405130)

Why bother when we can just buy the panels from the Chinese for so little? I can make enough money from a job at McDonalds to afford some of those panels.

Frame Rate (1)

Grindalf (1089511) | more than 3 years ago | (#36405134)

So does that, like give you a very high frame rate on Bioshock? cool ...

I've Had It With Slashdot (1, Troll)

Wingsy (761354) | more than 3 years ago | (#36405190)

An article about a supercomputer and it's performance, and only 1 or 2 comments that are not snarky or bitchin about something. Just go back and read them. Total waste of a person's time, like most comments in most articles. I'm turning in my Karma and password. See ya.

Re:I've Had It With Slashdot (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36405388)

but, where are ya gonna go?

Don't mind the "ne'er-do-well" trolls here (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36405612)

They're miserable little screwballs that haven't accomplished shit with themselves, ever. The best they can do is troll, and bitch, at the folks that have done well by comparison. Personally, I suspect they're from competing sites and try to drive others off of this website through their stupid antics. Don't let them succeed with you.

Re:I've Had It With Slashdot (1)

X0563511 (793323) | more than 3 years ago | (#36405648)

Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

Re:I've Had It With Slashdot (1)

jameskojiro (705701) | more than 3 years ago | (#36406150)

"Why not invent a special safety door that won't hit you in the butt on the way out, because you are fired." Cave Johnson

its not fucking science. (2)

nimbius (983462) | more than 3 years ago | (#36405236)

its a half-page blog post from the systems vendor, nvidia, singing the praises of their customer. as a computer scientist i want an independent scientific review...so should you, slashdot 2.0

"Andy Keane joined NVIDIA in 2006 as GM of the new GPU Computing business unit. Previously, he was a VP at start-ups Morphics and Ageia, which focused on the development of parallel computing technologies for the telecoms and consumer industries. "

oh goodie...the blog isnt even from a scientist at nvidia, just one of their general managers.

Ill save some time for ya, the other link is just third party shit from HPCwire singing the praises of nvidia, plugging their NASDAQ tag, and once again singing the praises of nvidia with sponsored ads.
oh, and of course authors will insist [insert potential rival competitor country here] invest more in high performance computing.

US falling behind again (0, Troll)

Eravnrekaree (467752) | more than 3 years ago | (#36405246)

In related news, Republicans announce massive new cuts to US science research and computer analysis projects, in order to give new tax breaks to wealthy billionaires who offshore US jobs to china.

Is there any doubt any more that Republicans are traitors, owned by globalist corporations which hold no allegiance whatsoever to the US and view common people as things to be exploited to enrich themselves, and have done all they can to undermine the US;s basic critical public investments in its science and education capabilities, as well as our investments in training new scientists, and even health care and rehabilitative services so we are not leaving our own people to die on the street? Republicans are more than willing to offer up the poor and decimate essential public investments in science to give more tax breaks to bloated billionaires who make their riches by destroying this country and its industry and massive human exploiitation and abuse.

The US is a failing country because corporate elites have decided they no longer need the US and the American people are buying into the lies of the fascist Republicans whose entire agenda and every policy is designed to hurt americans, to destroy our countries ability to fund its needs, to give more tax breaks to billionaires who are destroying our jobs to enrich themselves at our expense. Their systematic attcks on unions and our education system is designed to leave the people of this country with no voice and with no rights. To reverse this, we need to increase taxes on the wealthiest elites and invest it back into this countries infrastructure, reducing income inequality and putting more money back into the middle class, who need to be employed to build the countries future. Republicans worship and give tax breaks to bankers and wall street types who make their money as parasites and adding nothing of value, and take millions of dollars, than attack teachers and firefighters who earn average, middle class wages and whose services could not be more critical and valuable. Unless something enriches wealthy billionaires republicans want to get rid of it, and what we see is reverse income redistribution where money is being taken from the middle class and being given to an ever bloated wealthy elite who seem to think they should be able to exploit workers and control and own everything in this country, to enrich themselves with profits gained by further impoverishing workers.

Until we can reinvigorate unions, renew our comiitment to public education and make college education a universal option, invest in new energy infrastructure to get us off oil and onto renewable energy, invest heavily in NASA and science and cut the defence spending, and move health care from the for profit insurance system to a France type universal health care system which provides better quality for half the cost, and publicly invest in our people, such as rehabilitation and aid to help make sure children are well fed and grow up to be healthy and smart, and that we are not allowing our people who have been laid off by offshoring billionaires to die on the street, the US will continue its downward slide.

Re:US falling behind again (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36405286)

I have HOPE that things will CHANGE if we just elect the other party.

Re:US falling behind again (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36405380)

pinko

Re:US falling behind again (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36406028)

Did you actually manage to keep a straight face while writing 'reinvigorate unions' and 'renew commitment to public education' in the same sentence?

Re:US falling behind again (1, Offtopic)

Eravnrekaree (467752) | more than 3 years ago | (#36406786)

you dont know too much about Teachers Unions and have been listening to far too much Republican bullshit. Teachers unions for years have fought for better education funding, better materials for their children. The fact is teachers are being paid far less in the US than they are in Japan. If teachers are being asked to do far more, at least we should pay them similar to what they are paid in other advanced countries. Look. Republicans whine and complain about teachers pay but then they give tax breaks to billionaires who exploit workers and destroy jobs.Teachers work hard and are far more valuable than some bankster, corporate elitists, etc. It is disgusting, Republicans purely sefish, greedy behaviour which is a crass display of all of the worst and most irresponsible and self centered behaviour. We punish those in society who are dedicated to serving the public, everyone rich or poor, and then reward those who enrich themselves from stealing from the commoners. Republicans and the conservatives are authoritarian fascists who are driven purely by greed, arrogance and cruelty and that is their entire ethos. Its time to restore altruism, compassion, decency and unselfishness to this society, where people serve the common good is seen as a noble trait, rather than selfishly acting to enrich themselves.

The US falling behind in science.. (1, Insightful)

Paracelcus (151056) | more than 3 years ago | (#36405316)

"how the US really needs to up its investment in high performance computing."

As long as the defense industry continues to give (contribute) generously to members of the US government we can rest assured that the USofA will spend every buck it can print on useless, futile, BULLSHIT wars to the exclusion of any science, no matter how important.

Wars are BIG business, nobody in the government gives a shit about "terrorism" or "defending freedom", all any of these cynical, crooked parasites care about is money and the pursuit of absolute power!

Re:The US falling behind in science.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36406428)

That or having a significant portion of the population believe in an alternate reality created by Fox News in which Anthrogenic Climate Change does not exist because God and Coal Companies don't want it....

Re:The US falling behind in science.. (1)

Rockoon (1252108) | more than 3 years ago | (#36406854)

Wars are BIG business

Corporate Welfare is a bigger business. 4 trillion in the 2 years of Obama+Pelosi vs that paltry 1 trillion dollars you've been complaining about for 10 years now.

Here is an idea.. wake the fuck up.. smell the bullshit the liberals have been feeding you and realize that wars cost money and the only disagreement with them is if there should or should not be one. Meanwhile the democrats have been handing your money to corporations at the fastest rate ever in the history of the world, yet here you are still going on about the economics of a war (rather than its moral virtue) that ironically turns out to be significantly cheaper than anything the Obama+Pelosi administration did in its two years of completely unchallenged spending.

..and during those 2 years, where was the science spending?

Re:The US falling behind in science.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36409388)

I always wondered how subjective value of billions of individuals could be replaced with the arbitrary standards of some single authority, directing resources in our place. Even if this insane corruption you mentioned above were not the case, how on earth could the spending of others money be better than letting the owners themselves choose how to spend that money? All these people so desperate to cling to some patriotic identity can't even see how similar war industry spending is with other industries. It is the a significant mental disorder to believe that one can plan all this oneself or with a small group of people. It is only somewhat less dysfunctional to believe another is capable of it and give them sanction to control others.

All of these forms of spending are horrible and cause harm difficult to fathom, but even with some fantastical ideal government that actually tried to be good, there is no way they would come close to optimal resource allocation.

Re:The US falling behind in science.. (1)

ScrewMaster (602015) | more than 3 years ago | (#36411558)

there is no way they would come close to optimal resource allocation.

It's called "central planning" and it didn't work for the Soviets and it didn't work for the PRC. It won't work for us either.

China: We've upped our science... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36405318)

...now up yours!

has HPC really done anything useful? (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36405340)

I only know of minor successes in materials engineering and genetics but even those weren't very commercially successful. A course I took at MIT about 6 years ago the professor was talking about saving 10 million for Ford using HPC materials engineering modelling but 10 million isn't very impressive. I always hear HPC "is working on" a bunch of exciting sounding stuff but I never have heard of any big successes. Has there been any big achievement of HPC other than rendering 3D movies quicker, breaking codes during wars, and helping governments spy on their own people?

Re:has HPC really done anything useful? (2)

stox (131684) | more than 3 years ago | (#36405546)

Go talk to NOAA about weather reports. A fine example of success and HPC.

Re:has HPC really done anything useful? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36406168)

Just see what aerospace, car, energy (oil, and everything else..) and medical industries are doing. Every time there is the case of avoiding building a physical model or making a hole for a series of tests and simulations, some money is saved.

Re:has HPC really done anything useful? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36407042)

A few years ago it was either GM or Ford installed a supercomputer to help with engine casts. They cast an engine using a complete piece of molten metal. There are a lot of parameters involved including the actual mass of the molten metal, metallurgical properties of the piece (carbon, molybdenum, silicon, chromium...) some of which were in trace amounts but ended up being important, then the precise temperature of the material, etc. The problem was that a piece that was cast into an engine block had the potential to crack while being machined, and they wanted to avoid putting money into a piece of metal that they suspected would crack. Only 1 in 10 crack, but it could cost a lot, and if they can weed out 5 of 6, they can save a lot of money. The project to put the supercomputer in cost over $5 million. It had a cost recovery of less than 6 weeks. Then too, there is another example of an ad-hoc supercomputer used to determine the gene sequence of the sars virus that was rampant a few years ago. It saved lives. There was the computation fluid dynamics model that George W. Bush ignored that showed New Orleans would flood in the event of a category 5 hurricane. It was shown to him about 6 months before Katrina. He couldn't afford Army engineers reinforcing dikes, he had a war to fight. There are countless gene folding simulations that show how disease spreads, and I remember a 17 year old used a supercomputer to solve a piece of the Cystic Fibrosis puzzle Here [hpcwire.com] . There is also the computational fluid dynamics used to design jet engines, BMW employing one to make their cars more aerodynamic, .... the list goes on. I know they use them to determine the cheapest path when making new drugs (you can pick fastest, cheapest, and fewest number of steps). How many examples did you want? Oil exploration? Pharmaceuticals? Automobile design/production? Solar cells and semiconductors and superconductors? Disease?

Re:has HPC really done anything useful? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36409810)

Oh my, why do I get a "what have the Romans ever done for us" moment out of this?

I guess part of your problem is that you live in your mum's basement, and your apparent fixation on measuring "success" by "visible commercial success", whatever that means. Outside that basement, HPC is used in many, many places where you probably could imagine it, if you only cared to think about it. Examples include running crash, air-resistance other kinds of simulations for various vehicle manufacturers within the aircraft, auto-mobile and railway industries. Very low visibility stuff, and yet saving $Millions in the process, for both manufacturers and customers by reducing development costs for testing, speeding up development and reducing running costs of the unit. Whatever did HPC do for us, indeed.

US innovation is dead (2)

gblfxt (931709) | more than 3 years ago | (#36405756)

anything we put into new technology just ends up in the patent portfolio's pocket with their blanket 'innovations'

Drawing conclusions (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36407046)

To conclude that the US needs to invest more in computing requires more evidence than China having a faster computer than the US or the say-so of a company who would directly benefit from such an investment, but rather some argument involving opportunity cost.

And they built a neat gun... (1)

ilsaloving (1534307) | more than 3 years ago | (#36407530)

for the people who are... still alive....

That's the best they can do? (1)

russotto (537200) | more than 3 years ago | (#36408292)

They bought the biggest supercomputer in the world outside various national intelligence agencies, and all they can do is come up with yet another variation of just-around-the-corner solar technology? What's next, tokamak fusion, batteries with high energy and power density, and flying cars?

Re:That's the best they can do? (1)

dbIII (701233) | more than 3 years ago | (#36409556)

Since China is now just about the only place that does solar cell and battery manufacture the new variation just may pay for the computer a few times over on it's own.

Re:That's the best they can do? (1)

im_thatoneguy (819432) | more than 3 years ago | (#36409646)

If you think about it though. You only need one Solar Technological breakthrough to revolutionize the global economy.

We're an energy driven economy. You provide inexpensive plentiful electricity free of emissions and you've just put the world's most profitable companies (The Oil Industry) on notice.

It's not like you need 3 or 4 different effective solar cell designs. You need one. One good one that's easy and cheap to manufacture. Then you just make 6 billion of them.

If you could get it incredibly cheap you start opening up all kinds of new and interesting uses for electricity that are cost prohibitive today.

Re:That's the best they can do? (2)

ScrewMaster (602015) | more than 3 years ago | (#36411602)

You provide inexpensive plentiful electricity free of emissions and you've just put the world's most profitable companies (The Oil Industry) on notice.

Not at all. The reality is that petroleum is far too useful and valuable a substance to be burned for power. That's a waste for which future generations will revile us. Fact is, there will still be plenty of uses for oil even after the last internal combustion engine is melted down for scrap.

Stunt "science" that's from a suspect country (-1, Troll)

sethstorm (512897) | more than 3 years ago | (#36408472)

This is the same country that copies everyone else and has tons of junk science. I'd rather see these results performed by non CPC controlled/influenced scientists, run on non CPC controlled equipment(which is faster than these show boxes).

No amount of modbombing will change the facts.

China fastest? Meh - USA is biggest (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36409552)

The US has the 250 million processor known as the LardAss. Bite on that, suckers!

NVIDIA to USA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36409640)

NVIDIA blogged on this a while ago, where they talk about how the US really needs to up its investment in high performance computing.

NVIDIA: China has upped its investment in HPC. So up yours.

hello webmaster (1)

formation (2241238) | more than 3 years ago | (#36409774)

Check to see if your Company name is available http://bit.ly/m2IHF4 [bit.ly]
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