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Russian Lie Detector ATM

Soulskill posted more than 3 years ago | from the name-your-favorite-atm dept.

The Almighty Buck 95

smitty777 writes "Apparently the Russians are starting to add lie detectors to their ATMs in an attempt to prevent identity theft and bad withdraws. 'Consumers with no previous relationship with the bank could talk to the machine to apply for a credit card, with no human intervention required on the bank’s end. The machine scans a passport, records fingerprints and takes a three-dimensional scan for facial recognition. And it uses voice-analysis software to help assess whether the person is truthfully answering questions that include “Are you employed?” and “At this moment, do you have any other outstanding loans?”'"

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95 comments

vodka (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36409702)

voice rec dont work if you are drunk up on vodka

Re:vodka (1)

mindbuilder (960119) | more than 3 years ago | (#36409710)

>voice rec dont work if you are drunk up on vodka

Voice recognition of lies doesn't work at all. So it seems these bankers have fallen prey to a kind of ATM ripoff before they even deployed these ATMs.

Re:vodka (4, Funny)

maxwell demon (590494) | more than 3 years ago | (#36409730)

But the software told them the salesmen weren't lying!

Re:vodka (4, Interesting)

Cyberax (705495) | more than 3 years ago | (#36409868)

Actually, no. Voice recognition works fairly OK with Russian language.

For instance, I'm using it on my phone to do voice search. The last search was "The Sword of Damocles" (I wanted to read the legend which gave rise to this expression), it's pronounced "Damoclov mech" in Russian and Google understood it just fine. Try that in English now - it just doesn't work.

I can also use voice recognition to dictate large texts. Good recognition engine produces near perfect output.

That's what you get if you use a language with non-crazy spelling. Additionally, grammar cases in Russian seem to work as error correction codes.

Voice-based lie detection, though, definitely does not work.

Re:vodka (1)

cp.tar (871488) | more than 3 years ago | (#36410140)

And even if voice-based lie detection did work, who would stop people from recording their responses to questions such as “Are you broke?” and replaying them as answers to the ATM?

Re:vodka (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36409832)

No, you have to keep a minimum alcohol level in your system when you're russian and it's dangerous to go bellow a certain level.

Re:vodka (1)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 3 years ago | (#36414752)

Indeed. How do you think the Cuban missile crisis happened in the first place?

Shirley, they can't be serious (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36409704)

What the fuck is this supposed to do? How is this any better than hiring bank staff?
 
In Soviet Russia, Bank stael

Re:Shirley, they can't be serious (3, Interesting)

Samantha Wright (1324923) | more than 3 years ago | (#36409722)

Sure they are. It's only corruptible if you flip the right switch underneath it. And it's reliably corrupt when you do.

And don't call me Shirley!

(I am nothing like her.)

Re:Shirley, they can't be serious (0)

Sulphur (1548251) | more than 3 years ago | (#36409886)

Of course my dad's name is Illya. Just call me Illytch.; Vladymir Illytch.

I am not drunk; I paid a lot of money to learn to walk like this.

--

In Soviet Russia, regular expressions don't make it across the road.

Re:Shirley, they can't be serious (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36428434)

In soviet Russia, ATM withdraws from you

Pretty safe... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36409706)

So all you need is:

* A high resolution fake passport (scanning + printing?).
* A fake set of fingerprints (http://how2dostuff.blogspot.com/2005/11/how-to-make-fake-fingerprint.html).
* One of those anonymous masks (http://www.amazon.com/Rubies-Costume-Co-4418-Vendetta/dp/B000UVGLHU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1307784007&sr=8-1).
* And a recoding of somebody truthfully answering yes/no questions (e.g.: on a kiosk "do you have todays news papers?").

Pretty safe I guess if the credit card only allows you to borrow less than a 20E....

Re:Pretty safe... (2)

Alex Belits (437) | more than 3 years ago | (#36410686)

Application rejected: you are Guy Fawkes.

Re:Pretty safe... (1)

rrossman2 (844318) | more than 3 years ago | (#36411286)

Really?

All you need is
A> A knife
B> A gun

Demand the person talk calmly and normally or you'd have to hurt them. You now have force someone else to apply for a credit card which you'll use!

Re:Pretty safe... (1)

Grygus (1143095) | more than 3 years ago | (#36411470)

If you're willing to threaten someone with a gun or a knife, what do you need the ATM for?

Re:Pretty safe... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36415584)

Because the people don't have any money?

I've used the latest Russian ATMs. (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36409716)

Sberbank has some of the most advanced ATMs in the world now and it's mostly because of the extremely long ques. They're really advanced now, you can pay all sorts of bills from almost any company at them, gas bills, phone, internet, mobile, water, heating, taxes, etc, if for example you have a gas bill it will scan the barcode and then you just insert the money so it's connected to the billing systems of most major utility/service providers.

The main reason for these new lie detector tests is Russian people predominantly being drunk liars (but not as bad as chechens who will murder you for no reason at all) are more likely to end up dead or to take the money and dissapear off the map and it's hard to track down every worthless moron, especially when doing so may cost more than the loan is worth and it's also very likely that the money is gone and they have no assets to seize.

Re:I've used the latest Russian ATMs. (1)

maxwell demon (590494) | more than 3 years ago | (#36409744)

if for example you have a gas bill it will scan the barcode and then you just insert the money

You insert the money? Don't you have bank accounts in Russia?

Re:I've used the latest Russian ATMs. (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36409786)

It's mostly a cash-based economy. Only larger companies in Moscow/St Petersburg are giving registered work, most people get paid cash in hand.

Cue those "In Russia jokes" (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36409824)

In Russia, ATM withdraw money from the customers.

Re:Cue those "In Russia jokes" (1)

JAlexoi (1085785) | more than 3 years ago | (#36412730)

+1. And that is not even a joke!

Re:I've used the latest Russian ATMs. (2)

Reservoir Penguin (611789) | more than 3 years ago | (#36411464)

I'm Russian (not from Moscow/St.Peterburg) and this is bullshit, do not blindly mod it up.

Re:I've used the latest Russian ATMs. (1)

Whiternoise (1408981) | more than 3 years ago | (#36410268)

In Soviet Russia, ATM withdraws you!

Re:I've used the latest Russian ATMs. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36410646)

you can also pay using your card, or pay for stuff online (using your card).

Re:I've used the latest Russian ATMs. (1)

brusk (135896) | more than 3 years ago | (#36410732)

It's the same in Japan: ATMs there have accepted cash for a long time (credit/debit cards are less widely used). So one of my Japanese teachers, when he first came to the States, tried to make a deposit by inserting some twenties into the deposit slot of the ATM. He had to get the bank staff to open the machine up and retrieve it.

Re:I've used the latest Russian ATMs. (1)

Patch86 (1465427) | more than 3 years ago | (#36411938)

We have ATMs that can accept deposits in the UK too- but we also have ones that don't. It'd be interesting if that story is true as it would imply taht all Japanese ATMs accept cash deposits (so an exception is unheard of, tripping up the teacher).

In the UK, we have some super-clever ATMs that can do almost anything (cash deposits, cheque deposits, online account management, savings book printing, etc.), but they do tend to only be on branch premises- the ones that you see scattered all over the place tend to be the bog-standard cash withdrawal ones.

Re:I've used the latest Russian ATMs. (1)

brusk (135896) | more than 3 years ago | (#36412046)

In Japan they pretty much all take cash--if they take deposits, that includes cash deposits (the exception being perhaps small cash dispensers that don't take deposits, perform transfers, etc.).

Re:I've used the latest Russian ATMs. (1)

Dahan (130247) | more than 3 years ago | (#36412220)

ATMs there have accepted cash for a long time.

I've been using US ATMs for 20+ years, and in my experience, they've always accepted cash deposits. In the early days, you did have to put your deposit in an envelope (regardless if it was cash or check)--the ATM didn't actually do anything with the deposit except store it securely until the bank teller could actually make the deposit. However, the instructions were very clear about the envelope requirement: text instructions on-screen (this was before the fancy GUI ATMs), a picture of an envelope by the deposit slot showing which way the insert the envelope, the envelopes themselves next to the deposit slot, etc... In the past few years, Bank of America ATMs (and I'm sure other banks too) have eliminated the envelope requirement, and you now insert the cash and checks directly. They get scanned and OCRed by the ATM, so it counts cash for you, and if the OCR worked on the checks, totals those up for you too. If the check is hand-written poorly enough that the OCR can't make sense of it, you do have to key in the amount.

Re:I've used the latest Russian ATMs. (1)

larppaxyz (1333319) | more than 3 years ago | (#36410110)

Wow, "most advanced ATMs in the world", here in Finland we are currently moving ATM's like that to junk yard, because they are old and obsolete. Practically everyone is paying their bills using internet. I personally don't pay really any bills manually anymore, incoming bills are automatically paid from my bank account (and yes, i need to allow that once for every company that is billing me).

Re:I've used the latest Russian ATMs. (1)

RobbieThe1st (1977364) | more than 3 years ago | (#36410170)

Erm... If you guys are getting rid of your ATMs in exchange for internet transactions, how are those same ATMs more advanced?
It seems to me that online transactions should be considered a new transaction method, not an "advanced ATM"... Maby when your computer can print(and accept) physical, legal money...

Re:I've used the latest Russian ATMs. (1)

larppaxyz (1333319) | more than 3 years ago | (#36410354)

I quess that is true. However, there is not much need for physical money. Some people still use it (old people, people that can't have cards...), but almost everyone pays using cards. I personally don't even have wallet that can hold physical money, it's only for cards (id, credit&debit card and some other like student card..). Parking fee, coca & cola from vending machine and similar stuff is paid using single text message. No need for coins. But i quess it's not like that everywhere.

Re:I've used the latest Russian ATMs. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36411992)

And your privacy? Where is that?

Re:I've used the latest Russian ATMs. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36412644)

In his imagination. Just like yours.

Cash only (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 3 years ago | (#36412210)

However, there is not much need for physical money. Some people still use it (old people, people that can't have cards...), but almost everyone pays using cards.

Let me list a few kinds of merchants in my home town that accept currency but not cards:

  • Garage sales
  • Flea markets
  • Open-air markets
  • Mall lockers (insert two quarters and turn key)
  • Gumball vending machines
  • Most soft drink vending machines (though this has started to change)
  • Some video arcades' token dispensers
  • Public transit

Re:I've used the latest Russian ATMs. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36410460)

It's much like saying you have one of the most advanced VHS rigs, while the rest of the world has moved on to DVD. The latter is a distinctly different format, but also plainly more convenient.

Re:I've used the latest Russian ATMs. (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36410188)

I have never in my life paid a bill other than through the web interface of a bank. In fact, I don't even know how you do it otherwise.

I have asked my bank about what they can do for me if I want to pay things with checks, though (if I can find someone who will accept it). At first they didn't understand me; then they just chuckled and told me that they don't do that stuff anymore.

I'm born in 1983.

Re:I've used the latest Russian ATMs. (1)

rrossman2 (844318) | more than 3 years ago | (#36411314)

Are you in the US? If so, checks are still used for a lot of stuff (bills, a lot of places require a Voided check for certain things, etc)

Not all renters have a way to pay online, so you use a check for your monthly apartment rent...

Re:I've used the latest Russian ATMs. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36411494)

At least in Finland you do not use checks anymore. I have paid my bills myself last 15 years, and I haven't used checks once.
If a company has a bank account in Finland, then you are able to pay the bills online through your bank's portal, without exceptions.

Re:I've used the latest Russian ATMs. (1)

Tacvek (948259) | more than 3 years ago | (#36418200)

Unfortunately, the state of electronic money in the US is rather sad.

First of all according to the survey by the Census Bureau 7.7% of US households do not have a bank account at all! Up to 25% of the population lives paycheck-to-paycheck, utilizing the services of Pawn Shops, non-bank check-cashing services, or payday loans (legal loan sharks).

Cash is accepted virtually everywhere. Paper Checks are also widely accepted, although are considered a bit risky by the merchants, more because of the likelihood of insufficient funds (and not being ale to track down the person if that happens) than fraud. If you do have insufficient funds, you will likely be hit by at least $100 in fees. ($25 from the merchant and $25 dollars from the bank for first presentation of the check, and both fees again when merchant

Credit Cards and Debt Cards are widely accepted, but not universally. If fraud occurs the merchant eats the loss, pretty much without exception. Merchants are also weary of people disputing the charges with their card company. If that occurs the credit card company tends to side with the consumer unless the merchant can show that the transaction was actually completed.

Online bill payment at the company's site is common for large companies, but smaller companies may not offer it, or may charge a fee to pay online. Except for the largest companies, if you pay online the payment is not counted as being payed when you finished entering your details, but only once the transaction is completed, so paying online at the due day may not qualify as paying on-time, (although oddly if you give them the same credit card information over the phone, they almost always count that as on-time.)

Wire transfer services are expensive. Fees of $20 or more to send a wire Transfer domestically are very common.
At my credit union, receiving a wire transfer is a $5 fee, and I belive similar fees are also common.

The wire transfer system thus is not often used. Instead the ACH system is used. Most but not all employers offer direct deposit services, which use ACH to electronically post money into your account. Banks almost never charge a fee for that, but that is pretty much the only case in which consumers receive money via ACH. The more common use is to electronically present paper checks, for online bill payment via a bank, or for direct debit (where you authorize a company to directly charge your bank account.) There are no fees for the customer for those.

Online Bill payment through a bank does exist. However it does not work well. Payment is electronic (via ACH) only if your bank and the company have worked together to set that up. If not, when you use online bill payment the bank (or the company they contracted to provide the bill payment service) physically prints a paper check and mails it.

Many but not all companies with regular recurring bills offer a direct debit service (via ACH, as mentioned above), and indeed it is possible to pay nearly all your bills that way, except for one-off bills and perhaps a small number of recurring bills where the company does not offer direct debit.

Having integration between the bank and the company, such that you can view your bill electronically via the bank, and then pay the actual bill (useful for variable bills) is possible, but many banks and companies don't offer this. Even if both the bank and the company offer that, it may still not work, since there is no standard mechanism, so unless your bank (or its contractor) have specifically worked with the company to set up this integration, it will not happen.

For person to person electronic transfer of money there are few choices other than services like PayPal, or very recently a few services (such as Square [squareup.com] ) have started allowed individuals to accept credit cards.

Otherwise the only options for person-to-person payments is checks, or cash.

Re:I've used the latest Russian ATMs. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36410198)

You are a fool. What the hell does paying bills via the internet have to do with an ATM? They are different things and can coexist. Or do you also think it's practical to throw out all the ATMs functionality because you can pay bills on the internet?

Re:I've used the latest Russian ATMs. (1)

gpuk (712102) | more than 3 years ago | (#36412358)

Sounds great in theory but having been bitten twice now by companies incorrectly double or treble billing me I no longer allow anyone to automatically debit from my account. Much safer to log on to a suppliers payment portal every month and manually make a payment using my debit card.

Re:I've used the latest Russian ATMs. (1)

ScrewMaster (602015) | more than 3 years ago | (#36414182)

Sounds great in theory but having been bitten twice now by companies incorrectly double or treble billing me I no longer allow anyone to automatically debit from my account. Much safer to log on to a suppliers payment portal every month and manually make a payment using my debit card.

Still not very safe. If you're going to pay a bill from your personal account, at least here in the U.S., don't do it using an ACH debit. Log on to your bank's site and have the bank send the money. The danger in the U.S. system is that once a direct debit has been accepted from a given payee, it will always be. That's dangerous, and not just from criminal activity. As you say, mistakes get made. It's a lot harder for a mistake like that to happen if you decide how much money to send from your account, rather than someone else deciding how much to take!

I do have a debit card that I use for some things, but it's attached to a separate checking account that is only used for that purpose. I move funds from my primary account to that one as needed, effectively double-buffering my transactions. Even if somebody manages to clean out the debit-card account, they're not going to get much.

Re:I've used the latest Russian ATMs. (1)

larppaxyz (1333319) | more than 3 years ago | (#36416216)

Why would my electric company overcharge me and say that they won't give my money back? Soon they would be without customers. Incoming bills are also visible in online bank few weeks before thay are actually paid. You can easily see that they are ok.

I also have debit&credit (VISA) card, it's directly connected to my main account. It's bank and card company that is responsible for double chargin, scamming and other things like that long as i use my card as is said in contract (keep card PIN hidden, if lost report immediatly... etc). For example, if you buy something from internet and pay using VISA and never receive my package, VISA will refund my money.

Re:I've used the latest Russian ATMs. (1)

ScrewMaster (602015) | more than 3 years ago | (#36445770)

Why would my electric company overcharge me and say that they won't give my money back?

You're far too trusting, or maybe you've just been lucky. Tell you what, I'll give you a few examples of why I'm a little bit gun shy when dealing with any kind of direct access to my accounts. Remember, possession is nine-tenths of the law, and once your account has been drained, even by mistake, it's not necessarily a simple matter to get it back. It really is not.

I once had a cell phone carrier (who shall rename nameless, but have the words "One" and "Cellular" in their name) that charged me over $3,000 in one day for calls to Moscow and the Siberian Republic. At least, that's what it said on the bill. They even called me the next day to let me know what had happened, agreed that my phone must have been cloned multiple times to have racked up such a bill ... and then refused to take the charges off. They had sucked all that money out of my account and told me that "I was responsible for them, since the system wouldn't let anyone else use my account." Well, as a software engineer with some familiarity with that technology, I knew that was a crock and told them so. Didn't matter: I had to get a lawyer involved in order to get even part of it back, and after a year I still "owed" them some five hundred bucks, which I paid so they'd stop reporting me as delinquent. Fucked up my credit, outright stole three grand, and thoroughly pissed me off in the process.

Then I had a credit card provider where I had several grand worth of car rental charges appear on my bill one day, from a company I had never used before, ever. They were all from one particular car rental company, dozens and dozens of charges for the exact same amount, from several different facilities ranging from California to Florida. Naturally I called up my credit card issuer, who at first denied there was a problem until I shouted at the Indian woman on the phone and said, "For God's sake, LOOK!" At that point, she said, "Oh my goodness sir, let me put you on to our fraud department." Thank you. Now, the gentlemen in the fraud department handled the affair very professionally, immediately wrote off all the charges, and apologized for what was really the car rental outfit's error. Although, you know, with all the computer power these companies have at their disposal, they couldn't figure out that something totally unreasonable was going on?

The story doesn't end there. A few months later, I found all the charges back on my bill. All of them. This was the day after I received a letter explaining that, because I'd activated my card at my home address in Iowa (no, I don't live in Iowa), their investigation had concluded that I had, in fact, rented dozens of cars at the same time in different States on the same day. And now my card is over limit and they charged me a few hundred dollars in fees there as well. I mean, what the Hell? So I called back again, had another investigation opened, and they eventually decided to reverse the charges. Again.

And it's not over yet. A few weeks after that, I start seeing charge reversals from the car rental company. Dozens of them. So now I have a few thousand dollars of somebody else's money as a credit on my card.

Here's another one. Where I used to live, I again had thousands of dollars of long distance charges magically appear, this time on my home phone bill. All of them were to Mexico City, and some other town in Mexico that I'd never heard of. This was through SBC at the time (never again. Never, ever again) and I was told that I should be more careful with my long distance usage? Again ... WTF?. I had to talk to a supervisor and threaten legal action to get a tech to come out to my house ... sure enough, he found that one of my neighbors had tapped into my line and was getting free long distance. I hope they charged his happy little ass with something unpleasant. Bastard.

The point of all this is that the credit system, as it stands now, is inexcusably insecure, operated by monkeys and/or Cro Magnon, and is simply not to be trusted. Furthermore, you can't trust big corporations to give a single God damn about your money: if you let them take it, odds are you'll have the Devil's own time getting it back.

Re:I've used the latest Russian ATMs. (1)

loufoque (1400831) | more than 3 years ago | (#36410466)

This is not what an ATM is for. It should just be a machine where you put your card, input the amount of cash you want, get your cash and go.
Doing anything else just causes queues and annoyances.

Pay your bills on the Internet like normal people. Or better yet use automatic debit so that you don't have to waste time taking care of such things.

Does it test if you're drunk? (0)

Rogerborg (306625) | more than 3 years ago | (#36409728)

I'm just saying, being sober would come across as pretty suspicious.

Compulsory (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36409736)

In soviet Russia, lie detects you(without human intervention)

In Soviet Russia .... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36409746)

In Soviet Russia, ATM deposits you!

Re:In Soviet Russia .... (1)

AHuxley (892839) | more than 3 years ago | (#36409922)

In Capitalist Russian kleptocracy ATM offers easy credit to you.
In Soviet Russia ATM credits post colonial Africa with you.

Unreliable. (5, Informative)

headkase (533448) | more than 3 years ago | (#36409752)

If I was ever in the position where I was required to submit to a polygraph, and I don't mean this situation at a bank machine, I would gladly comply as long as I was able to add a single question as the first one:

Can this machine tell if I am lying?

Polygraph machines are not lie detectors. What they are are stress detectors. And if you know that little fact you need not be stressed when you are dealing with one. Here is a summary of a polygraph machine's reliability: here [wikipedia.org] .

Re:Unreliable. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36409918)

What they are are stress detectors.

Roofie yourself and get a loan?

Re:Unreliable. (1)

gl4ss (559668) | more than 3 years ago | (#36410044)

russia: where beating lie detectors while drunk off your ass was mandatory for social success.

also, russia: where shit like this can be sold to someone, as they've been in a media/culture vacuum for so long. they haven't had real public fails of how it works. btw props for the deus ex sig.

What's your favorite color? (1)

Latent Heat (558884) | more than 3 years ago | (#36410388)

Blue . . .

No, no, red!

(customer ejected from ATM) Beeeeewwwwwhhhh!

Re:Unreliable. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36410136)

Well, this is even worse than a polygraph. While a polygraph detects stress, it's not even clear what (if anything) this machine measures. Read Speech-based lie detection in Russia [upenn.edu] .

Re:Unreliable. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36410498)

moreover, can this machine tell if i'm me?

if it's going to use voice recognition with yes no responses, can i just prerecord answers to other questions then play them back when prompted?

Is this the proper time for this meme? (1)

rts008 (812749) | more than 3 years ago | (#36409768)

'In Soviet Russia, ATM watches YOU.'?

Re:Is this the proper time for this meme? (1)

AHuxley (892839) | more than 3 years ago | (#36409942)

In Capitalist Russia fake mob ATM forges thousands of you.
Mmmm quality Universal Electronic Card with Moscow residence.

Re:Is this the proper time for this meme? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36409958)

In Soviet Russia, ATM withdrawals YOU.

Re:Is this the proper time for this meme? (1)

BadPirate (1572721) | more than 3 years ago | (#36428158)

I think that meme's time has passed.

Ouch (1)

lennier1 (264730) | more than 3 years ago | (#36409776)

ATM with a built-in lie detector?

Put one of those near Capiton Hill and it will short out within minutes.

Re:Ouch (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 3 years ago | (#36410570)

Put one of those near Capiton Hill and it will short out within minutes.

Must be all those capiton particles.

Well, it sounds like a particle...

drinkypoo Y R U running from a simple question? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36410630)

http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2225174&cid=36390518 [slashdot.org]

Why'd you run away from answering a simple question there, troll?

Answer = Because it's clearcut proof drinkypoo's nothing but a damned troll, because he runs from answering a simple question that shows clearcut evidence drinkypoo is nothing but another "ne'er-do-well" slashdot troll.

Re:Ouch (1)

Xtifr (1323) | more than 3 years ago | (#36412106)

First you have to build something that can actually be called a "lie detector" without the mandatory use of scare quotes. Personally, I suspect that if you installed one near Capital Hill, it would simply prove to be even less reliable than your normal, completely-unreliable "lie detector" since politicians are such expert liars!

Re:Ouch (1)

Xtifr (1323) | more than 3 years ago | (#36412134)

In b4 grammar nazis: yes, I meant to type "Capitol Hill"; in my defense, I was only one letter off, just like the original poster. :)

Re:Ouch (1)

sjames (1099) | more than 3 years ago | (#36422532)

On capital hill, lie detectors can be even simpler than usual and 100% accurate. You just have to connect the red lie light to a switch that detects mouth movement and disconnect the green truth light.

ATM (1)

Hugundous (1210818) | more than 3 years ago | (#36409796)

In Soviet Russia, ATM makes degrading request of you.

Ob (1)

Hognoxious (631665) | more than 3 years ago | (#36409798)

What could possibly go wrong?

Then again, this is Russia we're talking about. So a more relevant question might be "what could possibly go more wrong than it already is", to which the answer is "not much".

Re:Ob (1)

martin-boundary (547041) | more than 3 years ago | (#36409836)

What could possibly go wrong?

The bank could fail and then the American taxpayer would have to bail it out? ...

Re:Ob (1)

second_coming (2014346) | more than 3 years ago | (#36409924)

You do realise Russia isn't in the US right? :)

Re:Ob (1)

maxwell demon (590494) | more than 3 years ago | (#36409960)

You do realise Russia isn't in the US right? :)

But I guess U.S. banks also do business in Russia.

Re:Ob (1)

AHuxley (892839) | more than 3 years ago | (#36410002)

You do realise Russia has banks in the US right?
The US Fed helps as Ron Paul (R) found "88% of overall discount window lending went to foreign banks, and nearly 100% of the New York Fed's discount window lending went to foreign banks"
http://www.examiner.com/finance-examiner-in-national/ron-paul-shows-how-the-fed-helped-create-euro-crisis-through-foreign-bank-loans [examiner.com]

Re:Ob (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36410592)

You want russians to keep their banks in russia? What's the point in that, banks need to be safe.

and posting as an anon a joke about russia. "What's a russian elevator? checthen presses a button and 10 floors come down".

Re:Ob (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36410216)

How old are you?

We are being Conditioned (1)

BrightSpark (1578977) | more than 3 years ago | (#36409802)

The youth of today are conditioned to give up every personal detail for any menial service offered by a provider. It is one short step from here to "Papiers!". If a service involves risk to the corporation, then that's their risk not mine. If you don't like the risk, don't offer the service that way. Get a knowledgable risk assessor to speak to me and size me up. I am the one with the money. You want to know if I'm trustworthy, well find out. Otherwise keep your business for the next schmuck who gladly gives you his privacy for a cheap bit of plastic. Do we wait to be chipped like dogs before we stick it to the man?

Re:We are being Conditioned (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36409968)

I am the one with the money.

No, you really aren't.

Re:We are being Conditioned (1)

ScrewMaster (602015) | more than 3 years ago | (#36414202)

I am the one with the money.

No, you really aren't.

He isn't? The why do big corporations spend so much of their money on advertising in an effort to get it away from him?

No thanks (1)

asifyoucare (302582) | more than 3 years ago | (#36409852)

So you let a bunch or Russians with whom you've never done business scan your passport and fingerprints, do a 3D facial scan and get voice and video samples of you. Er, no thanks.

Re:No thanks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36410016)

Formally speaking they have no right to save that information without your consent. I doubt they can (or will) even if they got your consent. Your personal information will be saved on your credit card and nowhere else, only thing ATM is able to do with this 3d facial scan is to check whether are you person whom that credit card belong to. Yeah I am from Russia.

And the U.S system is even worse... (1)

X-Power (1009277) | more than 3 years ago | (#36409940)

And it uses voice-analysis software to help assess whether the person is truthfully answering questions that include “Are you employed?”

To get a credit card in the U.S you just write on the application "YES I MAKE $90 000 PER YEAR" and they just take your word for it.

Re:And the U.S system is even worse... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36410008)

why wouldn't hey? If a few people do it, they sue. If too many do it, they get bailed out by tax payers.

Psychopaths rejoice! (5, Insightful)

blind biker (1066130) | more than 3 years ago | (#36410000)

Psychopaths have zero fear or stress when they tell a lie. (They are otherwise rather fearless - but I won't go into details now.) These ATM machines are wide open for them to pick them apart.

Re:Psychopaths rejoice! (5, Insightful)

Sinthet (2081954) | more than 3 years ago | (#36410060)

In addition, if you're a criminal that can't keep his cool when talking to an inanimate object in a relatively private area, then you seriously need a new profession.

Re:Psychopaths rejoice! (1)

GodfatherofSoul (174979) | more than 3 years ago | (#36411522)

Luckily for police, the vast majority of criminals aren't the cool-headed masterminds you see in Travolta movies. They're opportunists without much foresight.

other way around (2)

StripedCow (776465) | more than 3 years ago | (#36410040)

While those ATMs are getting more and more sophisticated at detecting who WE are, us users are still often in doubt about the "identity" of the MACHINE. "Is it really the bank we are interacting with, or is it a skimming machine (or both)?"

Re:other way around (1)

democrates (1055572) | more than 3 years ago | (#36410206)

Precisely, that is the most important observation imho.

Making additional personal data available for identity thieves is just plain reckless.

ATM with lie detector (1)

The Creator (4611) | more than 3 years ago | (#36410134)

M: Mmmm you like the taste of that?
F: Mmmm yeah, yummy!
Detector: *bleep* *bleep* *bleep*
M: What! You don't like it?
F: No sorry I don't really.
M: Why not?
F: Well it tastes like fucking shit doesn't it?
M: Oh, damn, the internet lied to me, I was sure u'd like it.

No human intervention? (1)

ark1 (873448) | more than 3 years ago | (#36410606)

Lets assume for a second this voice stress analyser can actually detect deception at a very high rate (it can't). What prevents someone from pre-recording all answers from themselves or someone else at the time when they are telling the truth then play when required? I suspect results of this stress analyser have no or very little bearing in the final outcome. This is all smoke and mirrors with hopes that those who believe in lie detectors wont attempt to apply.

Russian Snake Oil ATM! (1)

Xtifr (1323) | more than 3 years ago | (#36412056)

I am amazed that the headline and article use the ridiculous term "lie detector". There is no such thing. The polygraph, which is one of the most sophisticated devices thus labeled, requires an expert operator and careful calibration for each subject, and even so, has failed in independent studies to show more than about 61% reliability [wikipedia.org] (compared to 50% for a coin flip). Voice analyzers which aren't carefully calibrated for each subject don't even begin to approach that level of "reliability". Personally, I think there's better evidence for the existence of "gaydar" [wikipedia.org] than for the existence of anything that could reasonably be called a "lie detector" (although I can't seem to find any published statistics on the reliability of gaydar). :)

I know, I know, Slashdot doesn't actually have editors; what, am I new here? Still, this is supposed to be News for Nerds, and any nerd who uses the term "lie detector" unironically should turn in his/her nerd card. (Unless he or she is writing a science fiction novel, I suppose.)

The real technology behind it (2)

eL-gring0 (1950736) | more than 3 years ago | (#36412482)

Maybe it's just an "um" detector.

ATM: "Do you have liens against your property, unpaid bills or any other credit problems?"
Dumbass: "Um...uh...err, no?!"
ATM: "DENIED!"

I think it'd work at least as well as a polygraph machine.

The More You Know (1)

Weaselgrease (2050100) | more than 3 years ago | (#36412668)

Just a heads-up to the naysayers, TFA says first off that this is only being used for people applying for credit cards, not opening their existing accounts or accessing funds. It also says that it is a system using the combined efforts of a polygraph and the collected history of police reports where criminals have been exposed as lying in past polygraph tests. The machine is also programmed to detect that the user is attempting to acquire more information about the account or its holder while interacting with the machine. The questions asked also pertain to the individual supposedly opening the account, which adds more security to the polygraph test itself.

It's not as cut and dry as 'Just a polygraph test', so give it a little more merit than that, please.

Re:The More You Know (1)

Xtifr (1323) | more than 3 years ago | (#36413548)

Comparing it to a polygraph is definitely misleading. A polygraph has at least some science behind it. According to Professor Mark Liberman, who has been studying these sorts of voice analyzer systems for years, there is absolutely no research to show that there is anything to measure, so the claim that they collected a bunch of data from police voice files is meaningless. They might as well claim that they studied the eye colors of people who were found to by lying in past polygraph tests, for all the scientific validity it adds to their claims.

http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3185 [upenn.edu]

And seven years later, things haven't really changed. Of course, not all such systems claim to work on the basis of laryngeal micro-tremors — some explicitly say proudly that they *don't* use that method, which has gotten a bit of a reputation as snake oil. But neither do they cite a different method that's well enough specified for someone else to implement it and test it.

Real polygraphs measure several different phenomenon related to stress, and have to be carefully calibrated to each individual when used, and even so, they're not a lot better than a coin flip. The idea that this machine, which measures a single phenomenon (voice), and compares it to some sort of mythical average, rather than the current speaker's norms, when there's no evidence that the phenomenon it's measuring is even affected by lying, let alone how, let alone whether the effect is consistent between individuals, is simply preposterous. This doesn't deserve "a little more merit" than a polygraph; it deserves far less!

finger prints, lie detector, and mugshot (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36415350)

Because it is ALWAYS a good idea to treat your customers like criminals.

Since when has Russia become a police state like the USA? looks like this crap is spreading.

Finger prints can easily be altered, hire a bum for mugshot OR if you really wanna be funny get an orc or undead mask from WoW store.

As for the lie detector, just get a recording of an old hockey game, where the crown is cheering DA! DA! CANADA!! NYET! NYET! SOVIET!

All you have to do: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36415658)

Just use a tape recorder...

Russian ATM (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36422834)

For whatever reason, Russians seem to be extremely wary about contractual obligations for stuff like cable TV and mobile minutes. People, in and around Moscow at least, almost always have a pay as you go relationship with utilities and service providers. To make it easier to manage, Russian ATMs pretty much all have bill payment services built in. You just enter your a phone number or scan a bill and pay it off with cash rubles so you don't get hit with random fees that can sneak into contracts. Since you can do so much with these machines, it's more like the American conception of online bill payment but in a public location. It's easy to see why security would be an inherent issue with this setup so the new tech to prevent fraud is relevant and necessary.

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