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France To Launch a National Patent Troll

samzenpus posted more than 3 years ago | from the got-to-get-them-all dept.

Software 179

zoobab writes "France is creating a state sponsored patent fund, FranceBrevets, which primary focus will be to sponsor, acquire and license patents in the ICT (read software patents) sector. The patent fund is at the initiative of the minister of Research, Valérie Pécresse, the Ministry of Industry, Energy and digital economy, Eric Besson. The primary target of the fund is to collect licenses on those patents, which is already seen in France as the biggest patent troll of the country. France is also supporting the European Unitary Patent, which is seen by many at the final attempt to validate software patents in Europe."

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Godwin (4, Insightful)

Hazel Bergeron (2015538) | more than 3 years ago | (#36419582)

You remember the Third Reich? Get rid of the racism and the sense of urgency, and you basically have the EU in a couple of decades. If I think of the number of freedoms I've lost both this and that side of the Pond since 1995, I wonder whether it's immoral to carry on being productive.

Re:Godwin (2, Insightful)

FatdogHaiku (978357) | more than 3 years ago | (#36419624)

Mr. Galt, is that you? I'm not a big "Randophile" but sometimes current events remind me of Atlas Shrugged.

Re:Godwin (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36419992)

Hah, I thought I might be the only one..
I remember reading Atlas Shrugged back in the '70s, thought it was right-wing crap (can I add, the next thing I read was the Illuminatus! trilogy)
Re-read it in the early '80s, still thought it was right-wing crap.
Re-read it in the '90s (mostly to give me a set of references to take the piss out of a Randiot I had the misfortune to deal with at the time), it worried me that some of it was starting to make sense. Still regarded is as mostly right-wing crap, but with valid points.

Re-read it a couple of times in the early '00s. Unfortunately, some parts of it almost exactly described my then current situation apropos my employer and my contributions to the 'system'. I'd hate to admit this, but it was a bit of a factor in me getting out of the field of employment I was engaged in.

The more I do look at the world, the more I think she was right, but with the wrong 'enemy' - she had an obvious bee in her bonnet regarding 'commies' which made her a bit blinkered.

Like the characters in the book, I'm currently employed doing something which (just) pays the bills, but it's not in my 'specialist' area of employment - that which I used to get paid silly money for doing (but which others were getting even sillier money for 'exploiting') which is now my 'hobby'. This wasn't a conscious decision, it was a couple of years later that I actually made the connection with the book.

(and no, I've not yet in the 30 odd years I've owned a copy of the book managed to get through Galt's diatribe...it's like all the damn songs in the LOTR trilogy, I promise myself the next time I'll really read through it, but t'other part of the brain which knows better always wins and I skip it/them - and I still maintain Atlas Shrugged is mostly right-wing crap.)

Re:Godwin (4, Insightful)

phantomfive (622387) | more than 3 years ago | (#36420272)

Ayn Rand's philosophy is so annoying because it is partly correct, partly idiotic......on the one hand, yes, it's a good idea to take care of yourself and not be a 'leech' on society.......on the other hand, she was so opposed to charity to a ridiculous degree. Really, sometimes people are down, and you don't have to kick them. It won't destroy society if you help them out a bit.

Re:Godwin (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36421232)

Let's not forget that ultimately she availed herself of that same welfare she preached against under an alias.

Re:Godwin (0)

phantomfive (622387) | more than 3 years ago | (#36421256)

When discussing someone's ideas, what they did personally is irrelevant in discerning whether the ideas are true or not. Don't fall for the logical fallacy of ad hominem.

Re:Godwin (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36421318)

So, you are saying "talk the talk and walk the walk" is bunk? Sorry. If people want to tell me how to live MY life, then they need to put their money where their mouth is and show me first. Otherwise it is pretty obvious that they are trying to misdirect people into doing something not in their best interest.

Re:Godwin (0)

phantomfive (622387) | more than 3 years ago | (#36421490)

uh....I'm sorry that you lack basic logic skills [fallacyfiles.org] .

Re:Godwin (3, Insightful)

captain_sweatpants (1997280) | more than 3 years ago | (#36421590)

uh...I'm sorry that you lack an understanding of hypocrisy [wikipedia.org]

Re:Godwin (0)

phantomfive (622387) | more than 3 years ago | (#36421714)

What does hypocrisy have to do with whether someone is right or wrong? Nothing.

Re:Godwin (1)

captain_sweatpants (1997280) | more than 3 years ago | (#36421864)

My point (using your rather crass language) was that logical validity has little to do with right or wrong. Pointing out that someone is a hypocrite on the subject at hand is a valid reason to doubt their arguments (premises.) Hypocrites are the worst kinds of people. In this case it was probably due to a gross oversimplification (something very common in US political and economic discussions in my experience) but often it's because the person is a charlatan or a thief.

Re:Godwin (1)

MysteriousPreacher (702266) | more than 3 years ago | (#36419644)

I think you meant to post this comment over at www.dailymail.co.uk. They probably have some tips for recognizing Doodlebugs. Hint - listen for a buzzing noise.

Re:Godwin (1)

MysteriousPreacher (702266) | more than 3 years ago | (#36419674)

Whoosh!

Re:Godwin (-1, Flamebait)

ThunderBird89 (1293256) | more than 3 years ago | (#36419704)

I wouldn't really say that, the EU is a long way from becoming anything that resembles the Reich even remotely. And even if it is, minus the racism, is that really such a bad thing? Before Hitler instituted the Endlöhsung, or just the racism thing in general (seeing as Endlöhsung was almost exclusively anti-Jewish/anti-Slavic), the citizens of the Reich were pretty well-off, and their economy was the biggest in the region.

Being the Devil's Advocate here, but I wouldn't mind cameras on the street, an RFID tag in my ID, a visible and effective police force, etc. if it meant my salary/scholarship (depending on who/where I am at the time in question) is, say, triple my current one (just to compare, this semester, my state-funded scholarship was €53.45 or $76.40 per month, enough to cover the dorm fees, but not much else). I'm not doing many illegal things, just a bit of torrenting for series and software, so as long as they lay off the net, I'm okay with a lot of things. They probably don't apply to me anyway.

Re:Godwin (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36419768)

So, you're willing to give up other people's freedoms for $152.80 a month? Thanks asshole, you're part of the problem.

Re:Godwin (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36419824)

So, you're saying, you want people to do illegal things.. The moment someone inflicts harm to you person, you are going to cry ? Or trace someone with his RFID tag and camera feeds so you can get your revenge on this person ?

I'm all for a free society, but I often see a difference in culture and mentality, value-systems. As long you have a homogeneous group there is no problem. Once you have multiple groups interacting ("multicultural environment"), you get problems.

Re:Godwin (3, Informative)

king neckbeard (1801738) | more than 3 years ago | (#36419860)

There's a certain point where sacrificing freedoms, privacy, and such is no longer worth the benefits sacrificing them makes. Worse yet, these huge losses of freedoms don't seem to work well in practice today. The PATRIOT Act hasn't made Americans safer to any real degree, and the staggering amounts of CCTV haven't been effective in stopping crime in the UK.

Re:Godwin (1)

ThunderBird89 (1293256) | more than 3 years ago | (#36420010)

To play the Devil's Advocate again, the PATRIOT act made no real difference due to there being no further real attempts, just some half-assed pokes (Shoe Bomber, Underwear Bomber) to keep the US frightened. It's possible that in case of a real, well-prepared attack, the Act would have had an opportunity to shine, but let's hope we never find that out.

As for British CCTV, it might just be a matter of implementation, though to be honest, I don't know about the system, so I can't judge it either.

Re:Godwin (1)

cheekyjohnson (1873388) | more than 3 years ago | (#36420064)

I'd much rather risk a "terrorist" attack than give up any of my privacy or freedoms. Besides, spying on random people suspected of being terrorists is hardly a good method of apprehending so-called terrorists.

Re:Godwin (1)

king neckbeard (1801738) | more than 3 years ago | (#36420284)

I seem to recall reading that we are actually LESS prepared for a real attack. Basically, we've been wiretapping everyone all the time, we don't have the resources to filter through what's important, the signal to noise ratio has gone to hell, and now we're getting less useful information.

Re:Godwin (1)

ThunderBird89 (1293256) | more than 3 years ago | (#36420454)

I think making the cockpit doors lock in-flight, and having pilots carry sidearms (though are they trained in their use? Probably, but I'm not sure...) makes for rather good defense against most of the damage, even if it's not from the PATRIOT Act. That, and the checkpoints make for too much hassle to blow up a plane, but have shifted the prime target down to the ground, to the checkpoints themselves, where a lot of people queue up.

The SNR could probably be fixed if the "Enhanced Intelligence" really meant enhanced intelligence instead of springing to keywords, disregarding the context. I mean really, how much danger does a 13-year-old kid [dailymail.co.uk] pose, who's not even making a threat, just posting some thoughts I wouldn't expect from a 13-year-old?

Re:Godwin (1)

king neckbeard (1801738) | more than 3 years ago | (#36420794)

I'm not saying there haven't been improvements, but police states generally police hard, not smart (if they did, they'd just be states). IIRC, Israel has far more effective airport security and requires less work than pre-9/11 American airports. They've got it down to a well oiled machine, while the US has pretty much just tried brute force.

Re:Godwin (1)

Runaway1956 (1322357) | more than 3 years ago | (#36420840)

Implementation, the man says.

Hey, have you noticed that men are never perfect? (Don't get me started on women!) And, lacking perfection, men are corruptible. So - it doesn't matter much how you implement some whacko dystopian surveillance system - it's gonna suck.

Oh, it might make timid old ladies feel good, and collectivists who wouldn't have a mind unless they had freinds around to tell them what to think. But, there are still millions of us individualists who hate you bastards that want to tell us how to act, how to talk, how to think, how to learn.

Surveiliance is the most sought after tool of tyrants. Even if it happens to be the tyranny of the majority.

Re:Godwin (1)

ThunderBird89 (1293256) | more than 3 years ago | (#36419934)

So, you're saying, you want people to do illegal things.

Umm, how does what I said lead to people doing illegal things? If anything, a more visible police force and the knowledge that their crimes will be recorded and detected, their moves can be traced to bring them to justice will serve as a deterrent to crime. 1984-ish it may be, but it would at least make for a more peaceful society.
As for crying the moment someone inflicts harm on me, the moment my life is threatened, under Hungarian law, I am allowed to use proportionate force to defend myself, even disproportionate retribution is justifiable by "understandable fright" (whatever that means is up to the judge to decide, though). This even applies if I'm protecting someone else. So no, I wouldn't cry. If at all possible, the assailant would (barring serious disadvantages, for example unilateral possession of a firearm).

On the other hand, I agree with the second half of your comment. Multiple cultures almost inevitably lead to tension, which may or may not be resolved through intercultural dialogue. However, in order for this to happen, both sides must be willing to negotiate and understand the other, which is not always the case (see Angela Merkel's statement about the multicultural society failing in Germany).

Re:Godwin (2)

Man On Pink Corner (1089867) | more than 3 years ago | (#36420002)

You're doing illegal things yourself, dumbass. Most likely before you got out of bed this morning. So did I, and everybody who's reading this thread.

Seriously. Depending on where you live, do you have any idea just how many local, state or province, and Federal or EU laws you're subject to?

Re:Godwin (1)

turbidostato (878842) | more than 3 years ago | (#36420072)

"So, you're saying, you want people to do illegal things"

No, he isn't saying this. I may add that a police state, History shows, only make sense for the one controlling the police, not the citizens.

And then again, if you want surveillance to track criminals after the fact you should think twice about it: by your (probable) argument, death penalty should be the biggest deterrent to criminality (since it's about the worst thing you can do to the criminal after the fact, which is the vector expolited by tracking too) but still criminal rates are higher in USA, where most states hold death penalty, than in Europe where there's no such a thing.

"As long you have a homogeneous group there is no problem. Once you have multiple groups interacting ("multicultural environment"), you get problems."

Quite true. The question is if it's a better weapon against those problems police or education.

Re:Godwin (1)

ThunderBird89 (1293256) | more than 3 years ago | (#36419960)

Other people's? Sure thing, why not. They're not me, and to be honest, I agree with the "If you've done nothing wrong, you've got nothing to hide"-philosophy, to a certain degree. Although if they started wiretapping my cell without a crime being committed, or opening my mail, I'd probably be outraged too. Otherwise, I don't really care about being monitored by CCTV, since I'm not really paranoid about the government being after me.

And before you (or anyone else) start reciting the quote "First the came for the communists...", don't waste your bit-breath: I don't expect anyone to speak out for me anyway, and never really did.

"Endlösung" without "h" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36419798)

There's no "h" in "Endlösung".

Re:"Endlösung" without "h" (1)

ThunderBird89 (1293256) | more than 3 years ago | (#36419974)

Noted. Thanks for the correction, German is not my strong point...

Re:Godwin (1)

phantomfive (622387) | more than 3 years ago | (#36420006)

You're confusing things the Nazis did with things people complain about today. The Nazis didn't have cameras on the street, or RFID tags on their ID, and arguably didn't have an effective police force. Having an effective police force is a completely different problem.

Things the Nazis did do: kill their political opponents, destroy their democratic system, try to conquer the world. These are (besides the racism and genocide) the reasons we don't like the Nazis. This is why Godwin's law exists: because comparing RFID tags in your ID to Nazism, or saying you wouldn't mind Nazi rule, just makes you look dumb.

Re:Godwin (1)

ThunderBird89 (1293256) | more than 3 years ago | (#36420096)

No. I was not comparing the Nazis, I was comparing the whole Reich, economy and all. Politically, the EU is very stable, democratic, so we don't need to examine what would happen if a multiparty coalition decided to remove their opponents, as it won't happen anyway. Even if it did, it would just recreate the problem all over again, due to the mass of freed-up voters being available for the coalition parties to grab, causing it to fracture.
This article is more concerned with economy and sociology: patent suits giving companies trouble (economy), and the pervasive surveillance/spy network of the Nazi party (sociology). I've given my views on both.

The biggest reason beside racism and the Holocaust for not liking the Nazis is that the US/SU alliance won the war, and the western, more developed half of Europe was under US influence. The US is a democratic nation, whose population had every opportunity to command a withdrawal from the war through their elected President or Congress. Why did the US remain in the war 'till the bitter end? Because the propaganda-machine painted the Nazis as horrendous monsters, even the simple soldier who was just following orders (and be honest with yourself, given the order to murder a Jewish woman in cold blood, would you refuse, knowing that court martial and possible execution or at the very least, brig-time awaits?). THIS is why there's Godwin's Law, and this is why Hitler == EVIL.
P.S.: If we're talking about Hitler, for an interesting "explanation" of why he turned out the way he did, read The Primal Solution by Eric Norden!

Re:Godwin (1)

phantomfive (622387) | more than 3 years ago | (#36420250)

Here's the other reason for Godwin's law: if you can't possibly think of another historical example that demonstrates your point besides the Third Reich, you don't know enough about history or politics to be worth listening to. And look at your points:

Politically, the EU is very stable, democratic,

No, it's really not. There's a huge dividing rift between the richer and poorer countries. Furthermore, the weakness of its democratic structures (too many powerful people are appointed, not elected) makes it vulnerable to corruption.

The biggest reason beside racism and the Holocaust for not liking the Nazis is that the US/SU alliance won the war

The Nazis didn't treat the countries they conquered well at all. They would have been remembered poorly even if the US had stayed out of it, as happens to oppressive conquerors.

Why did the US remain in the war 'till the bitter end?

Uh, because we wanted to win? What, did you expect us to turn around right after the D-day victories and say, "well that was a waste of time?" Staying in the war to the bitter end was really a more normal thing to do......

and this is why Hitler == EVIL.

Hitler was evil because he was an ambitious, vengeful man, who spread the poisons of hate and anger through Germany until it became a deadly infection.

Unless you can put your ideas into other terms, you truly are not worth listening to.

Re:Godwin (2)

Keen Anthony (762006) | more than 3 years ago | (#36421388)

So you're saying, aside from the genocide, the only reason the Nazis were bad was because the Allies won the war; thus, they won the right to tell the history of the war and the history of the Nazis?

The U.S. remained in the war because the U.S.'s war with Germany was a consequence of its war with Japan. You're incorrect about the propaganda machine's depiction of Nazis as monsters. The Nazis were depicted as we depict Star Wars' stormtroopers, yes -- as formidable, highly organized, threatening foes, but not as monsters. The U.S. and U.K. press didn't discuss genocide. In fact, most American soldiers fighting the war had no idea about the genocide of Jews until near the end of the European campaign. Much of the American press seemed to bury the stories as rumors. There's even been some accusations that American finance companies like Citicorp had deliberately worked to bury stories of Nazi atrocities.

In reality, the Nazis got a pretty fair shake for a number of years after the war.

Re:Godwin (2)

styrotech (136124) | more than 3 years ago | (#36422290)

Why did the US remain in the war 'till the bitter end?

Presumably (with some urging from Churchill) to prevent the Soviets from carrying on across the rest of Europe, which would probably give the Allies an even bigger threat to face in the future.

The Soviets would then have all Europes resources, industry and Nazi scientists. Stalin was huge supporter of equal rights when it came to sending people off to the gulag. And the Soviets had a preexisting ideological reason to pick a fight with the US/UK that Hitler never had.

Re:Godwin (1)

hoggoth (414195) | more than 3 years ago | (#36420104)

That will be great until some scumbag a few rungs up the ladder from you decides he's going to fuck your wife and if you both don't like it he will make your lives a living hell with all the "subversive" things he has on you. You aren't actually subversive at all, but with tens of thousands of items of information about you he will find some angle to paint you as a problem that needs correcting.

Good luck trading freedom for the illusion of security.

Re:Godwin (1)

Runaway1956 (1322357) | more than 3 years ago | (#36420804)

Those who would give up essential freedoms in exchange for security, deserve neither.

It's only a near-quote, but you get the idea.

Re:Godwin (1)

WidgetGuy (1233314) | more than 3 years ago | (#36421000)

Those who would give up essential freedoms in exchange for security, deserve neither.

It's only a near-quote, but you get the idea.

And don't for get attribution: Thomas Jefferson.

Re:Godwin (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36421160)

You do it all the time, hypocrite.

Re:Godwin (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36419822)

Jacking off to furry porn with cheetos encrusted hands in your parent's basement is not "being productive".

Re:Godwin (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36420506)

Sounds like you've got plenty of experience with that.

Re:Godwin (1)

pyrosine (1787666) | more than 3 years ago | (#36419952)

Excluding the booming economy and ensuing economical stability

Re:Godwin (1)

the linux geek (799780) | more than 3 years ago | (#36420188)

You don't think the EU has serious racism? Look at how well the anti-(Roma,Arab,Turk,Slovak,Russian) parties do in elections. I'm conservative, but the increasing influence of the far right on European politics is a little alarming.

moronic. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36420274)

your proposition forgets the fact that eu was built by socialist political sources in europe, whereas the current party in power in france, is a right wing party.

Speaking of troll... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36419588)

This article is merely anti-french trolling. Michael Kristopeit was right, Slashdot is stagnated.

Re:Speaking of troll... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36419606)

Agree. I used to read every post ... now I have to be selective.

Re:Speaking of troll... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36419844)

I used to troll every thread and go for FPs ... now I have to be selective.

Re:Speaking of troll... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36421560)

You're not selective, you've just gone lazy.

Finality (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36419590)

France is also supporting the European Unitary Patent, which is seen by many at the final attempt to validate software patents in Europe.

Correction : this will only be the final attempt if it succeeds. Otherwise, stand by for many more.

Re:Finality (2)

pieterh (196118) | more than 3 years ago | (#36419858)

Ironically, the French patent establishment largely launched the notion of 'intellectual property' [digitalmajority.org] in the late 18th century.

This has been a long, long fight between the patent lobby and the rest of society. The sad thing is no-one really represents society, today, except civil society groups. Government has long become a tool for big business to get laws it thinks it needs, and the big software business (often, US firms like MSFT) still believes (wrongly) that it needs software patents.

Re:Finality (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36419898)

In the EU we're used to being told to try again when votes and referendums go the "wrong" way.

The EU in general is fun. My favourite story is that of the push for harsh anti-piracy laws, which were championed by an MEP, who by odd coincidence also happened to married to the then head of Vivendi. Conflict of interest? Nah. Pretty nice birthday present though for her husband.

In Other News (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36419594)

Governments continue to back the most restrictive interpretations of intellectual property they can.

Re:In Other News (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36419628)

Governments continue to back the most restrictive interpretations of intellectual property they can

interpretations of intellectual property

intellectual property

What?

Defining "intellectual" and "property" (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 3 years ago | (#36421376)

intellectual property

What?

"Intellectual" refers to works of authorship or inventions; "property" means exclusive rights. Or are you referring to the "Seductive Mirage" article [gnu.org] ?

Re:In Other News (1)

NFN_NLN (633283) | more than 3 years ago | (#36419864)

Governments continue to back the most restrictive interpretations of intellectual property they can.

This is the King's land.
It is illegal to hunt on the King's land.

Hmm... we've just come full circle.

Patents will be the next 'bubble'. (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36419604)

Easy to create in the thousands, being nothing more than a sheet of paper and can be sold for billions.
France is getting onboard early to dampen austerity measures from the last bubble.

Shrug? (3, Insightful)

medcalf (68293) | more than 3 years ago | (#36419614)

Well, given that we (in the US) currently have a government that thinks "Atlas Shrugged" is a great story about how to run a railroad, I suppose it will be a while before stuff like this gets sorted out. And it probably won't be pleasant.

Re:Shrug? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36419948)

Well, given that we (in the US) currently have a government that thinks "Atlas Shrugged" is a great story about how to run a railroad

We should make it a test for anyone standing for office - if you think that Atlas Shrugged is great then you're banned.

Re:Shrug? (1)

lennier (44736) | more than 3 years ago | (#36420218)

Well, given that we (in the US) currently have a government that thinks "Atlas Shrugged" is a great story about how to run a railroad, I suppose it will be a while before stuff like this gets sorted out. And it probably won't be pleasant.

Ah yes, that train story about how running a red signal light is perfectly safe [tvtropes.org] .

someone should patent 'surrendering' (-1, Troll)

WizardMarnok (2032762) | more than 3 years ago | (#36419626)

that should balance things out. Of course France has a lot of prior art.

Re:someone should patent 'surrendering' (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36419830)

that should balance things out. Of course France has a lot of prior art.

Only to Germans.

Do you know why Paris has tree-lined boulevards? So the Germans can march in the shade.

Re:someone should patent 'surrendering' (1)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | more than 3 years ago | (#36419928)

Us English are still taunting them about Agincourt. They outnumbered us five-to-one, and they still lost dismally.

Hah, at the Battle of the Herrings we managed to beat them using a defensive structure made from fish wagons.

Re:someone should patent 'surrendering' (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36420282)

Hah, at the Battle of the Herrings we managed to beat them using a defensive structure made from fish wagons.

Wow, you must be really old if you attended the Battle of the Herrings!

Are they gonna put a patent on surrendering? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36419650)

We'll have to pay royalties for white flags.

Does anybody like France? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36419662)

Don't know why we put up with them in the EU given their stupid policies.

Re:Does anybody like France? (1)

Midnight Thunder (17205) | more than 3 years ago | (#36419746)

That just sounds narrow minded. There are many countries doing crazy bullshit.
This bullshit is limited to their own borders and they haven't yet created a report on how badly Canada is doing ;)

The problem in France is they still believe what your parents did matters when you are trying to position yourself in society. The revolution only got rid of the king, since the rest essentially stayed the same.

Re:Does anybody like France? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36420220)

I live in France and the generally accepted wisdom seems to be that the revolution was orchestrated by the professional classes to get rid of the king and give them space to become the new top dogs. The peons simply got new masters.

And it is true that what your parents did counts for a lot - meritocracy is not a concept with deep roots in France. In fact, iIm beginning to realise that in many ways French society is like the society of England or America 30 odd years ago with all of the same outmoded views on sex, female rights, homosexuality, racism, press freedom and office politics.

Sorry, that turned in to a rant :D

This is even worse than Intellectual Ventures (1)

MikeRT (947531) | more than 3 years ago | (#36419668)

At least IV has two things going for it:

1. It's a private company, so if it fails it fails on its own dime (rather than getting millions of tax dollars infused into it)
2. It actually sponsors some new research.

This just sounds like a real, outright troll. It doesn't even convert the revenues into more research money.

Re:This is even worse than Intellectual Ventures (1)

rmstar (114746) | more than 3 years ago | (#36420450)

At least IV has two things going for it:

1. It's a private company, so if it fails it fails on its own dime (rather than getting millions of tax dollars infused into it)
2. It actually sponsors some new research.

As to 1: it is raising a tax on you by patent licensing. Moneywise it is the same thing, the difference is that since it is a private company, you have no vote on the matter.

As to 2: the French gov. sponsors a shitload of research, orders of magnitude beyond what IV will ever be able to do.

Also, if the patents are in the hands of the government, odds are you will be able to do bulk licensing for a pittance.

Welcome to 1984 (4, Interesting)

Midnight Thunder (17205) | more than 3 years ago | (#36419684)

Animal farm wants their president back. As a French national this makes me question my nationality. Between three strikes patents and this I wonder whether France truly got rid of the Nazis? Sad thing is there are so many other 'first world' nations that are also following this trend of returning to medevial times.

Re:Welcome to 1984 (2)

Rising Ape (1620461) | more than 3 years ago | (#36419734)

Between three strikes patents and this I wonder whether France truly got rid of the Nazis?

Holy sense of proportion... I don't think anyone's biggest complaint about the Nazis was their attitude towards intellectual property.

Re:Welcome to 1984 (5, Insightful)

medcalf (68293) | more than 3 years ago | (#36419968)

Of course not, but tyranny is tyranny, and tyrants act like tyrants. When you give them control, they grab for more. Europe and the US are both heading down this slope, which will have a bad end if not reversed.

Re:Welcome to 1984 (1)

Keen Anthony (762006) | more than 3 years ago | (#36421554)

I would argue that not all tyrants are the same, and some forms of tyranny are perhaps better than others.

Re:Welcome to 1984 (1)

KiloByte (825081) | more than 3 years ago | (#36419972)

The attitude towards imaginary property isn't the biggest complaint about the French government either.

Re:Welcome to 1984 (1)

JSG (82708) | more than 3 years ago | (#36420572)

For goodness sake, you have a seven digit ID here - stop being so insightful.

You should be writing up bollocks under the subject line of "Welcome to 1984" or something.

Re:Welcome to 1984 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36419862)

At the risk of feeding a troll....

Between three strikes patents and this I wonder whether France truly got rid of the Nazis? Sad thing is there are so many other 'first world' nations that are also following this trend of returning to medevial times.

Here are a few problematic things the Nazis, medeviall governments, and the current French government did or are doing. See if you can tell which is which:

1) Murder 10 million people because of their ethnicity.
2) Invade a dozen other countries.
3) Enforce patents on software.
4) Enforce the Bible.
5) Burn people alive because mentally ill people said they had a vision involving the person.
6) Fire-bomb London.

If you can't tell that 3 is not like the others, you need to get psychological help.

Re:Welcome to 1984 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36420140)

"1) Murder 10 million people because of their ethnicity."

Ask French gipsies and they'll tell you France government is not completly off the mark.

"2) Invade a dozen other countries."

Irak checks that for France too.

"3) Enforce patents on software."

This is current claim, so...

"4) Enforce the Bible."

You know in France muslim women can't hide their face, do you?

Certainly 5 and 6 are still out of scope, yes.

Re:Welcome to 1984 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36420576)

...

You know in France muslim women can't hide their face, do you?

...

Hooray for misogynistic, homophobic, medieval, irrational* barbarians!

* - Islam is literally irrational - learn about Islamic theology. There's a reason you don't see Nobel prizes in any scientific field going to Muslims...

Re:Welcome to 1984 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36420246)

France's political class is rotten to the core and you have no effective media to challenge them. The journals and TF1 etc. are toothless. This is France's biggest problem and a big reason why a man like Sarkozy is running the place.

Re:Welcome to 1984 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36420258)

France's political class is rotten to the core and you have no effective media to challenge them. The journals and TF1 etc. are toothless. This is one of France's biggest problems and a big reason why a man like Sarkozy is running the place.

well... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36419690)

there we go... definite proof that civilization is going backwards...

Don't politicians learn? (5, Insightful)

Teun (17872) | more than 3 years ago | (#36419750)

It really makes you wonder under what stone these politicians live.

The whole world witnesses the stagnation to software development caused by the incessant court battles about software patents in the USofA and then they want a similar system!

But then most of them are probably lawyers by trade so they see opportunities...

Lets hope other nations like the Germans can stop this nonsense taking hold in EU legislation.

Re:Don't politicians learn? (2)

El_Muerte_TDS (592157) | more than 3 years ago | (#36419846)

I think it's more an issue of the deepness of pockets than the size of stones.

Re:Don't politicians learn? (2)

JAlexoi (1085785) | more than 3 years ago | (#36419944)

It's an issue of lining one's pockets at the expense of ordinary people. France laws are crazy, Loire valley castles are copyrighted. (See http://www.istockphoto.com/tutorial_copyright_list.php [istockphoto.com] )

Re:Don't politicians learn? (1)

gmhowell (26755) | more than 3 years ago | (#36420924)

That may be one of the more depressing things I've read on the internet.

What's depressing is reading your crap, troll (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36420996)

You're a waste of life.

Re:Don't politicians learn? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36419938)

Stagnation of software development has never been an issue in France. They don't know any better than that.

Re:Don't politicians learn? (1)

Asic Eng (193332) | more than 3 years ago | (#36420022)

That might work - the Green party in Germany is on the rise in a major way. They poll at around 20% of the votes and have picked up their first governorship in the state of Baden-Wuerttemberg. They are opposed to software patents and patents on genes and their positions have become a lot more influential in Germany, now.

Re:Don't politicians learn? (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | more than 3 years ago | (#36420130)

"The whole world witnesses the stagnation to software development caused by the incessant court battles about software patents in the USofA and then they want a similar system!"

Not if you can outsource to a more business friendly country like India where you do not have to worry about patent lawsuits and you get really cheap labor too on top of that!

Part of me feels a consipiracy going on with outsourcing companies favoring software patents to they can turn around and sell more overseas contracts to clients. Meanwhile the developers in western countries like US, Canada, and now France will need to learn different professions like manufactoring ... oh oops. Seriously, the lawyers and simple greed are ruining everything and causing the world to head into a depression ... with the exception of China and India of course. We are heading into the dark days in the western world. ... besides bickering, the real problem is campaign contributions from corporations NEED TO STOP. We will never have politicans no matter which country you live in vote in our interests if this bribery continues. Long term economic losses will add up and civil strife and disobedience after that.

Up to your old tricks (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36419804)

Ah, Europe. Up to your old tricks I see.

Better return on investment? (1)

AnyPerson (1828202) | more than 3 years ago | (#36419876)

There are approximately 16 patents per $100 million spent in Australian publicly funded Research Institutions http://bit.ly/jROW2M [bit.ly] . Other nations are not radically different. Therefore, France's concept may give a better return on investment whilst stimulating innovation. The danger is if they act as a Troll to intimidate other nations?

Re:Better return on investment? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36420786)

16 patents per $100 million

Meaningless. How many of those patents are actually promote innovation and how many are just more roadblocks to the lives of millions of people?

Far too many people equate "patent" with "invention". Many (most?) patents are not productively inventive and many (most?) productive inventions are not patented.

Re:Better return on investment? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36420982)

Look at the link http://bit.ly/jROW2M - they are publicly funded Research Institutions - putting forward patent solely to help individuals and to provide for innovation.

Software patents ? (2)

Cochonou (576531) | more than 3 years ago | (#36419906)

As far as I know, software patents are not recognized in France.
See for instance here [www.inpi.fr] .

Innovation Expropriation (1)

kawabago (551139) | more than 3 years ago | (#36419976)

It is totally unethical for a government to enact legislation to create a tax on innovation in the form of patents and then turn around and gather all the patents for itself. This is a guarantee that poor quality patents will be issued and subsequently bought by the French government who will no doubt make it a criminal act to not pay them the innovation tax. If France adopts this it will destroy that sector of the French economy. But what else would you expect of the French, experts at shooting themselves in the foot.

Summon FranceBrevets! (Farkers Only) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36419982)

So not only are they patent troll, but will they use their patents to troll people in french evolution forums as well?

The west has run out ideas... (1)

Yaa 101 (664725) | more than 3 years ago | (#36420548)

This whole Patent and Intellectual Property craziness is because the politicians run out of ideas how to increase employment and Gross National Product.
They see that they lost the battle of keeping manufacturing and other jobs into their countries, slowly all the money creeps toward the BRIC countries.
What the politicians will be left with is the doom scenario that is unfolding in the Arabic countries round the Mediterranean and the creep of that scenario to the weak European economies round that same Mediterranean, 25% or more unemployment by young people who are at the prime age of being able to push revolutions.

Basically the Patent and Intellectual Property craziness is a lost gamble that will only bring a little time for the ruling classes, but they won't come with new ideas and in the end we will enter an era of poverty in the west, and we will see some Hitlers come and go.

It's not possible to patent software in France (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36420626)

According to my french law lessons, in France :
- patents are far less common than in the US (because they're harder to get ?)
- it's not possible to patent software (except software related to industrial processes, like computer-assisted production).

Furthermore, I think that the amount of money involved in trials in France isn't going to be enough for a patent troll to do business. In my mind, in the USA the money gained lost in a trial is part of the punishment whereas in France it has to be proportional to the damage dealt.

-----

D'après mes vieilles leçons de droit français, en France :
- il y a beaucoup moins de brevets qu'aux USA (parce qu'ils sont plus durs à obtenir ?)
- Il est impossible de breveter un logiciel (sauf cas particuliers de logiciels utilisés dans l'industrie, comme la PAO et les machines-outil)

De plus, je ne pense pas que les sommes d'argent en jeu dans les procès français soient suffisantes pour qu'un "patent troll" français en fasse un business. D'après moi, aux USA l'argent perdu dans un procès est punitif alors qu'en France la somme demandée doit être proportionnelle au dommage subi.

Re:It's not possible to patent software in France (1)

Wolfbone (668810) | more than 3 years ago | (#36421452)

it's not possible to patent software (except software related to industrial processes, like computer-assisted production).

The EPO and some of the national POs have a long and dirty history of pretending - for political reasons - that that is the case. I'm horrified if the lie is being repeated in an educational setting. I suggest you contact the French branch of the FFII for clarification, but with a little patience you can quite easily check for yourself just how brazen a lie it is: http://worldwide.espacenet.com/ [espacenet.com]

Stop Using that Term (0)

stewbacca (1033764) | more than 3 years ago | (#36421060)

What term do I hate more than "fanboi"? Why, "patent troll", of course.

Can you get any less objective reporting when you drop "patent troll" into an article?

Your patents (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36421166)

All votre patents are belong to nous.

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