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Notch Announces Minecraft 'Adventure Update'

Soulskill posted more than 2 years ago | from the blocky-indiana-jones-hat-sold-separately dept.

Games 142

jjp9999 writes "Notch announced that Minecraft 1.7 will include the long-awaited 'Adventure Update.' In an E3 roundup on his blog, Notch wrote, 'The idea with this update is to flesh out the game a bit, making it reward exploration and combat more.' Although he added, 'We're keeping the details secret so people can get surprises,' Notch wrote back on July 7, 2010 that Adventure Mode would be one of the three game modes in Minecraft (the other two being Survival and Creative), and would include a health bar and an inventory, but would remove the player's ability to place or destroy blocks. He said the value of this is that 'people can design "challenge maps" in creative or survival mode, then share them with people so that they can try to beat them in Adventure mode.' Interestingly, Notch also announced the release of the Minecraft source code to a small group of mod developers, in his latest blog post."

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142 comments

Terraria (3, Interesting)

cgeys (2240696) | more than 2 years ago | (#36429440)

Personally I've lost interested to Minecraft long time ago. It was fun back then, but meh now. But I tried Terraria with a friend and it's a similar game, but more stuff to do and some point in it. It's worth a look.

Re:Terraria (0, Flamebait)

jojoba_oil (1071932) | more than 2 years ago | (#36429544)

Personally I've lost interested to Minecraft long time ago. It was fun back then, but meh now.

I knew when I decided not to buy it that it would get boring fast. I've watched a few people play it and all I ever see them do is start fresh, start a "home base", get to the point that they can hide in base during the night and explore during the day, and then close it to play a different game.

And Notch really has no incentive to finish the game anymore. Anyone who was going to buy the game has already bought into the "free updates forever" alpha... Give it a few months and nobody will remember who he is; a "1-hit wonder" of video games.

Re:Terraria (1)

RanCossack (1138431) | more than 2 years ago | (#36429562)

Give it a few months and nobody will remember who he is; a "1-hit wonder" of video games.

I hope so. :( Minecraft's sucked down so much of my time already... if he keeps making games like that I'll be in real trouble.

Re:Terraria (1)

flitty (981864) | more than 2 years ago | (#36429584)

I see this Adventure Update as a good direction though. I haven't played it in months because I played much like you describe. Create a home-base, maybe a minecart track to get you in and out of your base and main mine, but then get bored. Having the ability to build an adventure and share that would get me firing up the game again.

Re:Terraria (1)

yarnosh (2055818) | more than 2 years ago | (#36432102)

Problem is that the fighting system is just not very robust. It is more like a prototyping tool for a better game. I find the mobs in the game to be nothing more than a nuisance.

Re:Terraria (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 2 years ago | (#36432758)

I think the fighting itself is fine but enemy numbers and strengths make fighting merely a matter of spotting enemies before they reach you and then it's easy going, just whack them with a sword to conveniently keep them out of range (no, creepers don't require a different approach). Terraria ups the ante there by having many enemy tiers where your basic sword will barely scratch something like a fire imp, enemies may be easy to spot but they'll often overwhelm you, especially if you go into an area you aren't equipped for.

Re:Terraria (4, Interesting)

Daetrin (576516) | more than 2 years ago | (#36429818)

I knew when I decided not to buy it that it would get boring fast. I've watched a few people play it and all I ever see them do is start fresh, start a "home base", get to the point that they can hide in base during the night and explore during the day, and then close it to play a different game.

I can only think of two possibilities, either the people you watched are completely uncreative, or they've already got some other area of their life in which they are creative so they don't feel the need for another one.

Personally i started the game and built a "home base" and did a bit of exploring, but i didn't like the snowy terrain i'd started in. So i started a new world. Then i built a "home base" in that one. Then i built a fountain. Then i built a farm around the fountain. Then i dug down to the bottom of the world so i could mine cool stuff. Then i saw a giant plateau and wanted to get to the top and spent awhile digging my way up there. Then i built a castle on top of the plateau. Then i dug an underground tunnel to connect the castle with my first home base. Then i dug an underground farm. Then i started crafting decorative items. Then i built a large lava pool.

And then i got distracted watching the Yogscast Minecraft videos on YouTube, and then i decided to try out the Survival Island challenge myself. Then that inspired me to start a new world and build a new type of home base. Then i built a portal to the Netherworld and started collecting stuff there.

Then i got distracted by Gemcraft Labyrinth for awhile, and then got distracted from that by Terraria. However i fully plan to go back to Minecraft and build more cool stuff, especially when the next updates happen. (I haven't even played around with minecarts or redstone at all yet!)

And i am by far not the most creative person out there. You can go on YouTube and find thousands of videos from people a million times more creative than me.

So Minecraft only gets boring fast if you have no interest in building stuff. Perhaps you meant to say "I have no interest in being creative in a building game so i knew it would get boring for me fast"? Because as originally stated your blanket statement is manifestly untrue.

Redstone and minecarts are the best... (1)

Max Littlemore (1001285) | more than 2 years ago | (#36431100)

You haven't played with redstone or minecarts? That's the thing that has kept me playing.

I have a minecart track with 5 stations that are all linked via serial communication via redstone. The current implementation can support up to 8 stations (3 bit station ids). I can go to one station, set in another station id using levers and press the send button. After about 2 seconds, a little piano note sounds and it's time to jump into the minecart and be automatically transported to the station I dialled in.

I'm working on a modified transmitter and receiver circuit that will allow n-bit station ids. It's tricky getting it compact enough because of the odd way redstone works, but that's part of the fun for me.

Re:Redstone and minecarts are the best... (1)

omglolbah (731566) | more than 2 years ago | (#36432382)

Oooh, havent done serial communication yet... Any chance you have schematics? ^.^

Re:Redstone and minecarts are the best... (1)

lachlan76 (770870) | more than 2 years ago | (#36433414)

While I've not actually implemented this, it should be fairly easy to do by building two delay-line memories, and transmitting by copying from one to the other (i.e. replacing the feedback loop in the destination memory with the output of the source register). Sounds like time for me to sit down and build some of this stuff.

Re:Terraria (2)

k8to (9046) | more than 2 years ago | (#36431764)

I think you just proved the point.

Minecraft isn't interesting. The people who play minecraft are interesting.

Re:Terraria (1)

yarnosh (2055818) | more than 2 years ago | (#36432194)

I want to say that being creative in Minecraft is difficult because of the materials and functions are so limited, but I know that should push me to do more with less. I do find making intricate things to be very difficult. For example, anything that involving curves is very tedious. Also, without using some cheats, collecting materials can be extremely tedious. I resorted to giving myself infinite TNT because I couldn't stand hackign away at stone ad nauseum. And I turn off mobs because they're just a nuisance. So basically it is just a virtual lego set :)

Re:Terraria (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 2 years ago | (#36432776)

Many people aren't looking for user generated content, we want the game to present us a challenge, not roll over and tell us to make our own fun.

Re:Terraria (1)

FoolishOwl (1698506) | more than 2 years ago | (#36429822)

Did you miss the part where he's adding another game mode, called "Adventure Mode"?

Re:Terraria (1)

jojoba_oil (1071932) | more than 2 years ago | (#36430026)

Did you miss the part where "Adventure Mode" is just survival mode with the ability-to-destroy-blocks disabled? You can't destroy blocks, so you can't pick blocks up, so you can't place blocks. Maybe there will be a better interface for sharing your world, but that's already (easily) possible according to a few of my friends that do play minecraft.

I don't see how that's as big of an update as people are making it out to be... The whole "fun" part of the game that I've seen is the ability to create your own style of home base. You can't even create anything in this new game, thus ripping out the only thing the game had going for it in the first place.

Re:Terraria (1)

pyrosine (1787666) | more than 2 years ago | (#36430072)

Did you miss the bit where he is including many other features that he hasnt disclosed? I imagine he would throw in missions, NPCs and other things you couldnt think of off hand - the game has certainly surprised me before

Re:Terraria (1)

yarnosh (2055818) | more than 2 years ago | (#36432222)

I would be surprised if he threw in something as crazy as missions or NPCs. So far additions have been limited to less functional things like weather.

Re:Terraria (1)

AAWood (918613) | more than 2 years ago | (#36432980)

Since late October we've had the introduction of the redstone system (with all that that's brought to the game), working monsters and inventory in multiplayer (hell, lets just say working multiplayer and have done with), different "biomes" so the landscape changes, the weather/stat/achievement systems added, beds that let you set a new spawn, the improved file format, dyes for wool, the Nether with all that that entails (new mobs, new blocks, portals, fast transit...) and a new world on the way, tameable pets, music blocks, maps (not just a minimap, the way they've been implemented is very cool), new railroad components, trapdoors, dispensers (allowing for automatic turrets), and a whole flurry of performance increases, bug fixes, graphical updates and other minor things. So yeah, I think he's done just one or two things that could be described as "functional".

Re:Terraria (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 2 years ago | (#36432786)

Mojang isn't Arcen Games, Minecraft patches have been fairly moderate in their changes so far. Don't expect Dwarf Fortress's adventure mode out of this, at least not within the first few months.

Re:Terraria (1)

Chris Burke (6130) | more than 2 years ago | (#36430048)

Actually, based on his latest blog entry, it sounds like the "Adventure Update" isn't going to be about a separate game mode, but rather adding things to Survival Mode that encourage and reward exploration and otherwise flesh it out. Which I personally much prefer. "Challenge maps" are already quite possible and popular -- and if you're into trying one, obeying the creator's rules like "don't destroy blocks" is simple enough to do yourself. No need to create a separate game mode that removes fundamental aspects of said game. No need to split development effort.

And wrt the GP, personally I'm a long, long way from getting bored of the game. There's always more things to build, and always more caves to explore. If I thought making a shelter so I'm safe at night was the goal, then yeah, I'd have gotten bored of the game in ten minutes, too.

Re:Terraria (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36429848)

The adventure update and the modding API whenever that becomes final and Notch will cease to be, essentially.
And considering how the modders will be getting full source code (seriously, what?), if he tries to change stuff that the modding community hate, someone will just leak the shit and it will get a pirate-fork. (hell, it already has to an extent)

Half the Minecraft community are already annoyed at his terrible updates as it is.
Seriously, has he HEARD OF UNDO? It is this little thing you can use if you SCREW UP CODE.
Better yet, VERSION MANAGEMENT. Some editors have that built right in to the editor.

The most recent update broke so many times with such stupid bugs.
And it continued to be broke for about 5 minor updates. (even when acknowledging it)
What is it with developers and not using very simple TRY CATCH and testing their code to see such things.
I know the game is beta, but jesus, does he do ANY testing besides walking around maybe? ("everything LOOKS okay, push update, now let's play some other game till completion")
It isn't hard to write a simple testing script either. Simulating all interaction functions with a small set of variations would have caught well over 70% of the bugs on those new bugs lists that get posted on the Wiki.

This is coming from someone who has been developing grid engines for a while now.
And now that everything gets referred to as a Minecraft clone kind of saddens me because it is so terribly made, terrible effort behind it too.
Jeb_ is like the saviour for Mojang. He has added so many of the things that Notch was planning all those days ago when he actually gave a shit about his game.
Mojang should seriously set budgets for each month, maybe it might give them a little motivation to work harder to keep profits up.
All that money should be set aside for the future. They were REALLY lucky with Minecraft. Real lucky.
That luck might not last for long.

Re:Terraria (1)

DocHoncho (1198543) | more than 2 years ago | (#36430872)

Can I get an Amen? I just can't wait to see what a god forsaken clusterfuck the codebase is when it is finally released for "modding".

Seriously, you're going to try and pass off a source code dump as a modding API? WTF? Mods are still going to stomp on each others toes, there will continue to be questions about the legality of distributed mods (how much confidential code is needs to be released for a given mod??) and of course, every new feature will break SMP even more than it already is. Here's an idea, embed Lua, provide access to the Java code from there. Why the hell should modders (whom we have no reason whatsoever to trust) be writing Java code which runs unsandboxed? There's already been stories of malware mods stealing user data.

Minecraft is a great game with deep flaws. I honestly don't think there is any way it can ever fulfill the dreams and hype Notch is always on about. For fucks sake, 1.6, the "Bug Fix Update" caused at least as many bugs as it fixed. The whole thing is a disaster. I find it remarkable that a community of coders, working from domesticated source code can continuously out-do Mojang with features, stability and even performance. Notch releases hatches, breaks the ever-loving crap out of the game, while Diamond Miner releases stuff like Millenaire and manages to keep things stable. Not to mention adding features Notch couldn't even dream of implementing without fucking up everything.

I don't want to start a flamewar, but contrast the current update history of Terraria. Professional, few bugs, tons of new features. They added tons of new features in a week and a half. Meanwhile, Minecraft languishes (while Notch plays Terraria!!) with no new compelling features or content. Minecraft has no future until the full source code is fully leaked and the community takes over. Notch is inept. This shouldn't be taken as a Notch bashing post (I don't even know the guy), only as a series of observations on the development of the game and the obvious clusterfuck it has become.

Sorry for the rant, this has been building up for a while.

Re:Terraria (1)

lexsird (1208192) | more than 2 years ago | (#36431232)

Interesting rant, someone else was complaining about this that I know. But, the play concept proves to be rather awesome, though very limited. Break down the success of Minecraft, it's a FPS/builder, resource management and development, sandbox-ish, with unforgiving but exploitable physics.

My advice, keep that, scrap the rest. Put a team on recoding this out of whatever fucked up code the author started out with. Pay the guy off, give him some royalties and let the big boys have it and run with it. Its obviously something, have you seen the dent it puts into the game world from gamers? When I see people running around at the conventions dressed like Minecraft guys, I know the game is a hit on some level.

It takes deep pockets to finance these things off the ground.

Re:Terraria (1)

monkyyy (1901940) | more than 2 years ago | (#36432488)

he has lots of money, the only reason i think he isnt just releasing the source code is so many people already bought it.
its clear hes bored w/ the game, he said himself he`s working on something else and im guessing he didnt put a link on his blog to terraria to increase sells, but to decrease minecrafts fanfair

Re:Terraria (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 2 years ago | (#36432808)

Speaking of FPS, wouldn't Minecraft-style terrain be a much more interesting base for an FPS with destructible terrain than the sculpted stuff with pre-defined destroyable areas we're seeing in AAA FPSes?

Re:Terraria (1)

lexsird (1208192) | more than 2 years ago | (#36433070)

I think its great for such an application. I have tried Minecraft PvP and it reminded me of the times on Darktide in Asheron's Call, the brutality and complete loss that can come with it. I liked it, it was great. You can't get attached to your stuff, which is hard. Too often players whine about brutal game mechanics, enough they get it nerfed. I would rather the mechanics remain the same and players just get better.

Re:Terraria (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 2 years ago | (#36432796)

Don't people already decompile the game to mod it? also the code release is a testing stage for developing the modding API AFAIK.

Re:Terraria (1)

Bacon Bits (926911) | more than 2 years ago | (#36429988)

Personally I've lost interested to Minecraft long time ago. It was fun back then, but meh now.

"Back then"? Dude it's only been in beta for 6 months, and before that it wasn't what anybody would call a "game". You must have the lifespan of a gnat to refer to that as "back then".

I knew when I decided not to buy it that it would get boring fast. I've watched a few people play it and all I ever see them do is start fresh, start a "home base", get to the point that they can hide in base during the night and explore during the day, and then close it to play a different game.

This is how I play it, too. But it's how I play most games. Minecraft, more than most games, feels like getting your Legos out when you were still in grade school. You either tear everything apart and start over, or you go back to the one or two things you built that were really awesome. You play with it for a bit, then put it away. You'll come back again and play later.

Not everything needs to be World of Warcraft -- all-encompassing and more demanding of your time than most women.

And Notch really has no incentive to finish the game anymore. Anyone who was going to buy the game has already bought into the "free updates forever" alpha... Give it a few months and nobody will remember who he is; a "1-hit wonder" of video games.

That's assuming Notch's primary incentive is to make money. I'm not sure that's really the case. Making money is nice, sure, but it's not like he started this with the idea that he was going to make a boatload of money and then drop it. That's like saying he set out to create a new genre of gaming (which, largely, he did).

Re:Terraria (1)

nmb3000 (741169) | more than 2 years ago | (#36431186)

And Notch really has no incentive to finish the game anymore.

I wonder about this. According to the Minecraft stats [minecraft.net], there have been 2,507,617 purchases made for the game. Even assuming a 10 euro average price (I'm not sure how the price has increased over time), that's over 25 million euros he's already made -- and it's probably a bit more than that. The guy is rolling in money, and unless developing Minecraft is something he really enjoys, I don't see any real motivation for him to continue much longer.

Re:Terraria (1)

Hadlock (143607) | more than 2 years ago | (#36432534)

Why on earth would you kill the golden goose? Every point update generates huge amounts of free advertising and probably sells a hundred thousand copies. Notch doesn't seem to do much development on Minecraft anymore, but hiring a full time developer to work on it would easily pay for itself for another year or two.

Re:Terraria (1)

Medevilae (1456015) | more than 2 years ago | (#36432226)

I really don't think so, especially with it coming to the 360. I think it'll be popular on the 360, really. Maybe not the same cult-like reception it gets on the PC, but yeah. Also fuck survival, that's boring- if you're not playing on a "creative" server then you're-doing-it-wrong, and that's why it's getting boring.

Re:Terraria (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 2 years ago | (#36432740)

Indies like that need their reputation, if Notch screwed players by stopping development on Minecraft that would kill the sales of all future games he makes.

Re:Terraria (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36429608)

But, that's, like, you know, totally 2D, man.

Hipster much? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36430364)

Hipster Minecraft, now i've seen it all.

Re:Terraria (2)

Cimexus (1355033) | more than 2 years ago | (#36431734)

It depends what kind of game you prefer:

Minecraft concentrates on the creationism/building. There's no end-game goals, there's not much in the way of RPG/adventure elements (yet) - it's basically virtual Lego. I like that and I'm still playing it obsessively (big projects take months or years to build unless you hack, so I can see myself playing it for a while yet).

Terraria focuses more on the exploration/gear/adventure elements and less on building. It has a far greater array of droppable/craftable/mineable items and a more complex gear/stats system. But you can't really build anything amazing in it like Minecraft (since it's 2D). There's also some identifiable 'end game' goals which MC doesn't really have, and the world is finite etc.

They are superficially similar games, but in reality, made for two different types of gamer. If you prefer adventurey spelunking elements without having to just sit there mining huge amounts of resources to build stuff, Terraria is great. If you don't really care too much for hacking monsters up and finding items, but just want to build some awesome structures, Minecraft.

I like both TBH, but I think Minecraft will have more long-term appeal.

Re:Terraria (1)

lexsird (1208192) | more than 2 years ago | (#36433110)

I wouldn't bet all my money on Minecraft, but I can see the creative element incorporated into other genres. Imagine if you blended Minecraft with World of Warcraft? Or combine Minecraft with a FPS and an RTS, where you could build and assign objects/items/creatures etc to do whatever. The old game Battlezone when it came to the PC was a great combo of fps and rts. Combine that with Minecraft-ishness. You then tie all that together with a space sim with the scope of Eve, where you could do ship building and ship boarding combat and you have something pangalacticgarbleblasting.

Re:Terraria (1)

eharvill (991859) | more than 2 years ago | (#36433468)

My biggest wish in MC would be the ability to assign permissions to individual blocks. So basically a starting world everything would be "neutral," but as I build my home base or whatever I could assign the blocks I put down as read only; no one else could destroy them. You could then create common areas that multiple people could create/destroy for communal type areas. If there was such a system, I would probably venture out into random servers instead of staying on my own server or playing single player.

Wow! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36429446)

It's like I'm really at reddit!

Fuck Notch, that lazy, fat, uninspired cunt.

Notch...? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36429496)

"Notch"? Really? Also, slashvertisement alert.

Minecraft vs. Terraria (1)

A Friendly Troll (1017492) | more than 2 years ago | (#36429540)

At first I was oblivious to what Minecraft was. Then I bought it. Then I played it for a while. Then I figured out there was nothing to really DO in the game. Okay, I know it's a giant sandbox and you can build stuff, but after a while, you kind of get bored of building stuff...

About a month ago, I found Terraria. The game has been in development for less than half a year, and it has more depth and more things to do, especially in multiplayer, which is just pure fun.

Any updates to Minecraft are much welcome, both in SP and MP. Hopefully there will be more crafting stuff and more things to do. Maybe it's just me, but when I play Terraria, I get this weird thought in my head - "this is what Minecraft should have been". Somehow I feel that Notch got a boatload of money and then semi-abandoned the game...

Re:Minecraft vs. Terraria (1)

thebra (707939) | more than 2 years ago | (#36429612)

At first I was oblivious to what Minecraft was. Then I bought it. Then I played it for a while. Then I figured out there was nothing to really DO in the game. Okay, I know it's a giant sandbox and you can build stuff, but after a while, you kind of get bored of building stuff...

About a month ago, I found Terraria. The game has been in development for less than half a year, and it has more depth and more things to do, especially in multiplayer, which is just pure fun.

Any updates to Minecraft are much welcome, both in SP and MP. Hopefully there will be more crafting stuff and more things to do. Maybe it's just me, but when I play Terraria, I get this weird thought in my head - "this is what Minecraft should have been". Somehow I feel that Notch got a boatload of money and then semi-abandoned the game...

If he is smart he will build in some sort of in "app" purchases. "Upgrade your sand blocks to golden blocks for .99 cents" or "Purchase the new sword of awesomeness for 250 Minecraft dollars".

Re:Minecraft vs. Terraria (1)

Cant use a slash wtf (1973166) | more than 2 years ago | (#36433610)

If he is smart he will build in some sort of in "app" purchases. "Upgrade your sand blocks to golden blocks for .99 cents" or "Purchase the new sword of awesomeness for 250 Minecraft dollars".

If and when that ever happens, I will stop playing Minecraft. That would be a very good way to completely alienate your entire fanbase.

Re:Minecraft vs. Terraria (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36429632)

Except that minecraft is 3D, which introduces a whole host of complications. Everything becomes much harder, when programming in a 3D vs. a 2D environment. This is why Dwarf Fortress is so incredible: Toady does almost _no_ work in terms of graphics/animation, and pathfinding, AI, world generation, etc. become much simpler. He is then free to focus on the behavior.

Also: Terraria's server. Was awful. Minecraft's server took a LOT of work to get right, and that's something that occupied a large chunk of his time. Notch has put a significant amount of work making these kinds of things polished.

Re:Minecraft vs. Terraria (1)

A Friendly Troll (1017492) | more than 2 years ago | (#36429664)

I don't know... He's announcing Minecraft for other platforms, which worries me a bit. If he continues working on the game, but really WORKING on the game, in a year it could be awesome. I'm just not convinced that's going to happen :(

Re:Minecraft vs. Terraria (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36429760)

Have a look at Minecraft mods: http://www.minecraftforum.net/forum/51-released-mods/

Mods like Humans+, Millénaire or IndustrialCraft have introduced far more new contents in Minecraft than the past six months of official updates. And Millénaire even gives it a goal.

Re:Minecraft vs. Terraria (1)

DocHoncho (1198543) | more than 2 years ago | (#36430944)

It's sad, isn't it? And the real shitter is that those mods, built from obfusticated source code introduce far less bugs than the anemic official updates. Notch may have some skills, he may have made a game which has gathered a huge, dedicated community. But that very same community is full of people 100x smarter than Notch and will inevitably outshine anything he can do. Minecraft should be declared finished, the source code released and Mojang can move on to something else. It's going to happen eventually, why prolong the inevitable?

Re:Minecraft vs. Terraria (1)

Teancum (67324) | more than 2 years ago | (#36431910)

That may be what the "official release" is all about. This is "scheduled" for some time in November (go look it up if you really care to find out).

Once Minecraft hits the "version 1.0" status he may just simply throw the doors open to the community... or sell out to some other game company. I really don't know what is going on with the whole thing at this point, although the modder community is playing around with the presumption that everything has something akin to a Creative Commons license of some sort.

The real shock would be if Mojang sells out to one of the major game publishers (take your pick) who promptly trash the community behind the game. It isn't as if a major community-supported project has been nerfed through selling out for money in the past. Heck, just look at what Oracle has done to Java.... and Oracle is at least still giving lip service after a fashion to their user community.

Re:Minecraft vs. Terraria (1)

AAWood (918613) | more than 2 years ago | (#36433020)

Notch is "prolonging the inevitable" in not declaring the game finished because the game isn't finished. Features are nice, and he's been passing out things as they come up with them, but when it boils down to it the core game itself is not yet complete and so the focus has to be on getting the game to be stable, with features being a secondary consideration. While it's true some of his patches tend to add new bugs, overall the number and severity of bugs are reducing... And given some of the previous bugs were things like the entire alternate nether world not being available in multiplayer, the fixes are in some cases practically a new feature anyway. Also, consider for the moment that Notch has to be more conservative than a modder. For example, Millenaire's NPCs and generated villages may be very cool, but they're not necessarily something every Minecraft owner would like to play with, and the mod also has a performance hit. If Notch put something like that in as a standard gameplay element in single player, there'd be a backlash. As it stands, the whole point is that with all these mods available that add so much stuff, there's all this impressive stuff out there if you want it. Meanwhile, Notch can focus on finishing the core game as it stands, whilst adding in new features that are unobtrusive enough to fit for everyone.

Re:Minecraft vs. Terraria (1)

Chris Burke (6130) | more than 2 years ago | (#36430084)

He (and his main Minecraft programming assistant, Jeb) aren't the ones working on the ports. They're focused on the PC game.

Re:Minecraft vs. Terraria (3, Insightful)

mark-t (151149) | more than 2 years ago | (#36429768)

...but after a while, you kind of get bored of building stuff...

One word. Lego.

Building new stuff never gets old for someone who has a passion to create.

Re:Minecraft vs. Terraria (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36429882)

Yes, but some of us create real things.

Re:Minecraft vs. Terraria (1)

mark-t (151149) | more than 2 years ago | (#36430002)

I'm not sure... are you suggesting that Lego isn't real, or that playing with Lego is in some what inferior to building things that are practical for day-to-day living or business?

The former is false. The latter is subjective, and suggests that you may have forgotten what it means to play.

Re:Minecraft vs. Terraria (1)

Daetrin (576516) | more than 2 years ago | (#36430036)

Yes, but some of us create real things.

Well that's great for you and your cohorts then. However a lot of the rest of us lack either the talent or the resources for creating real things. Lego and Minecraft are for us.

Re:Minecraft vs. Terraria (1)

adolf (21054) | more than 2 years ago | (#36431082)

Yes, but some of us create real things.

Cool! We'll all become structural engineers and architects, then, and either deflate your salary and put you on the breadline, or kill lots of people with our mistakes!

Except, I think a lot of us would prefer to play with Lego and/or Minecraft to safely satisfy our building fantasies, while (only incidentally, mind you) preserving your paid role in life.

Re:Minecraft vs. Terraria (2)

guruevi (827432) | more than 2 years ago | (#36430140)

I think it gets boring in single player but when you play online and can share your 'inventions' or collections with others, it becomes much better. You can also make it reflect real world if you want to and build mock-ups of your real-world ideas. I'm building my basement to scale (1m per block) for fun right now but I'm planning on converting it into a man-cave so I could use it to mock-up my placement ideas.

Re:Minecraft vs. Terraria (1)

hibiki_r (649814) | more than 2 years ago | (#36431070)

Which makes sense for the game's sandbox mode. But survival? survival has no meat: it's sandbox with minor annoyances every so often.

Re:Minecraft vs. Terraria (1)

ArsonSmith (13997) | more than 2 years ago | (#36431098)

always looking for good builders on our server for bunch of nerds gaming: mc.bongaming.com

Re:Minecraft vs. Terraria (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 2 years ago | (#36432828)

Lego is more versatile (especially once you add the Technic parts for mechanisms) and you can do more than just put it on shelves, if you build a boat you can move it around and pretend it's a boat. In Minecraft your structures are static and can't be moved around.

Re:Minecraft vs. Terraria (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36432884)

But Minecraft boats can move around, too. I tried it myself!

Re:Minecraft vs. Terraria (1)

A Friendly Troll (1017492) | more than 2 years ago | (#36433572)

One word. Lego.
  Building new stuff never gets old for someone who has a passion to create.

I weighed my Lego collection some time ago - I've got a solid 14.3 kg of Lego bricks. I'm in my thirties and I *still* buy new Legos and play with them; have done so for over two decades now. It's not such a great comparison :)

Re:Minecraft vs. Terraria (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36429824)

Then I figured out there was nothing to really DO in the game.

Well, it completely, utterly depends on what you want from it. Take a look at what people are doing on the MC forums. Hand-built logic units? Yep [minecraftforum.net]. Story driven entertainment movies? Done [youtube.com]. Collaborative city constructions efforts, complete with underground railways, airports and a stadium? In progress and always being updated [minecraftforum.net].

Maybe some people do get bored of building stuff, but not everyone. The Lego comparison is pretty good here, and there are still plenty of people who play with Lego well after they stopped being kids...

Re:Minecraft vs. Terraria (1)

snuf23 (182335) | more than 2 years ago | (#36430350)

I agree that Terraria has more game elements but it's far less compelling as a sandbox to build things. Constructed environments can't be as complex or interesting in two dimensions, and of course this is nothing like redstone circuits in Terraria.

Also as far as the content in Terraria, it doesn't really have THAT much. There are only 3 bosses, all of which can be soloed without the top gear (better gear makes it easier but you don't need the best in the game to kill them). I got kind of bored with just loot farming when I already had good enough items to defeat everything in the game. Even so, it's a lot of fun and easily worth the ten bucks.

With Minecraft I didn't find the combat to be interesting. In fact I found it annoying to have to stop whatever construction project I was working on to go hide inside for the night or risk having a creeper blow up my building. When I want to concentrate on building stuff, I usually turn the monsters off. The "game" portion to me is less interesting than the sand box play.

I love both Minecraft and Terraria but for different reasons. Despite some similarities they don't play the same and each game has its own strengths.

Re:Minecraft vs. Terraria (1)

rwa2 (4391) | more than 2 years ago | (#36430540)

Yeah, somewhere on the Minecraft website Notch even admits he'd like to add more Terraria-like elements to Minecraft. I haven't played with Terraria yet, but the demo movie makes it look kinda boring, but I also admit I was never into Castlevania.

I have enough fun with Minecraft, and it's the first thing I've managed to get my wife addicted to since the Sims.

Anyway, I shall now troll you with obligatory giant golden wang: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/2680-Minecraft [escapistmagazine.com]

Rewrite in C/C++ (0)

0100010001010011 (652467) | more than 2 years ago | (#36429624)

I love playing Minecraft it's fun and mindless. But after an hour or so (even if I just leave it open and complete other stuff) it'll start eating into my ram (8GB) and start using 50% CPU at idle. I know OS X's Java implementation is a bit to blame, but something this 'simple' could be done in GTK and use almost no CPU.

Re:Rewrite in C/C++ (1)

lucian1900 (1698922) | more than 2 years ago | (#36429844)

I'm not convinced the JVM is at fault here. I've seen very efficient Java games.

And very efficient Java servers. Minecraft's server is plain idiotic (uses threads! figure that). Bravo uses a fraction of the resources and it's written in Python.

That said, Minecraft is indeed awesome.

Re:Rewrite in C/C++ (1)

kvvbassboy (2010962) | more than 2 years ago | (#36430380)

(uses threads! figure that). .

As opposed to?

Re:Rewrite in C/C++ (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36432274)

As opposed to select(), just for starters. In Java, that'd be nio. Minecraft uses a thread per connection and blocking I/O per thread. That's Baby's First Server Design, the sort of thing that any serious server implementation in any language throws out.

But that's only a scalability issue with multiplayer servers. The memory leaks and runaway CPU usage are problems in the client code.

Re:Rewrite in C/C++ (1)

screwzloos (1942336) | more than 2 years ago | (#36429920)

C++ is nice, but I wonder how the game would perform in GLSL? Having spent a big part of my undergraduate CS elective budget on physics simulations and advanced rendering methods with GLSL, the first thing I thought when I got the game was how much faster it would be if all the heavy lifting was done on the GPU.

I am sure Notch had his reasons for programming the whole thing in Java, I just hope those reasons weren't speed and cross-platform compatibility.

Re:Rewrite in C/C++ (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36430206)

Minecraft implements the Lightweight Java Game Library (JWJL) which wraps OpenGL along with other libraries. It is possible to make full use of GLSL shaders using JWJL. Maybe Notch implemented GLSL, or it is entirely possible he stuck with the fixed rendering pipeline. The latter would seem rather silly since shaders were introduced in OpenGL 2.

Re:Rewrite in C/C++ (1)

DocHoncho (1198543) | more than 2 years ago | (#36430998)

The source of the problem here is that Notch is obviously not a GL/3D programmer. The game consists of a bunch of blocks, why in the hell does it perform worse than flashy titles like Fable 3, Prince of Persia or any other AAA title with all the bells and whistles? I understand it's doing a lot of processing, since there are a huge number of blocks to be processed. But for gods sake, a game whose graphics consist of 16x16 textures and cubes (12 triangles each!!) should not chug along like it is prone to do. It's not as if there is a large amount of AI and physics processing. The damned monsters simply make a bee line towards the character. The only thing affected by gravity are the player, entities (items, etc.), sand and gravel.

Java isn't to blame here. And that is remarkable in and of itself.

Re:Rewrite in C/C++ (1)

Jamu (852752) | more than 2 years ago | (#36429942)

I've noticed it uses more and more memory, until it decides to free it again. You also get occasional lag spikes. I just assumed it was Java's garbage collection. I'm not sure if there's anyway you can get Java to collect garbage regularly. Games that require a steady framerate would benefit from a small amount of resource management each frame, rather than a large amount irregularly.

Re:Rewrite in C/C++ (1)

Shados (741919) | more than 2 years ago | (#36430232)

It is. I don't know how java's particular implementation works, but generally managed languages with garbage collection will look at how much free memory there is on the system at any given time, and only bother collecting resources that are long lived (as opposed to local scoped variables, which will get collected very quickly) if there's any kind of memory pressure.

So basically if you have 40 GB of RAM, it could wait a very, very long time until the memory is collected.

Fire up Starcraft 2 or Elderscroll while the java application is running though, and you'll see the memory get collected immediately.

Its some of those data points that the system knows about and can be difficult for the app developer to tap into, so it can be more efficient to have the system do it. Similar applies with multi-threading... a managed system may be able to decide how many threads to use better than the application and its programmer.

Re:Rewrite in C/C++ (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 2 years ago | (#36432866)

The problem is that garbage collection takes time. Making it collect smaller chunks every second would create a smoother experience than having it do one massive collection every half hour. Arcen Games struggled with that in AI War where they create and destroy lots of things all the time leading to lengthy garbage collections if they don't happen frequently.

Re:Rewrite in C/C++ (1)

erlehmann (1045500) | more than 2 years ago | (#36430632)

There is a project called Minetest-c55 [55.lt]. It is not as featureful as Minecraft, but written in C++ (using Irrlicht) and licensed under the GPL2 (or – as I remember – at your option, any later version). You can check it out on Bitbucket [bitbucket.org].

Disclaimer: I maintain a fork called Minetest (Minetest Delta) with some added features (new block types etc.), which can be found on GitHub [github.com]. Look at the screenshots [dieweltistgarnichtso.net].

Re:Rewrite in C/C++ (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36433092)

I'll second Minetest-c55. I've gotten bored with the Minecraft sandbox and am designing algorithms to generate worlds for Minetest-c55. My aim is to allow Minetest-c55 to generate an inhabited world with named cities and NPCs that can have some knowledge about the surrounding civilisation. I have ideas for including rivers and roads between towns too. So far I have methods to generate the place names and a way for NPCs to quickly calculate (without searching) the location of a place given only the name. Hopefully, I will post a demo script to the Minetest forums next weekend.

Re:Rewrite in C/C++ (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36430898)

It's not your JVM. It's Minecraft. Love the game... but it's always been an out-of-control resource monster.

Re:Rewrite in C/C++ (1)

petsounds (593538) | more than 2 years ago | (#36431876)

It certainly could be something in OS X's Java implementation. The Java-based PS3 Media Server has the same problem on OS X; it releases very little of its memory. Streaming long bits of HD content becomes a RAM problem quickly. In both cases this could be a case of not releasing asset memory due to programmer error. But I'm not really sure this a Java issue -- look at Firefox 4+ on OS X. It has massive memory leaks: it seems to never let go of HTML images, as well as Flash videos. I have to restart Firefox more than once per day now.

Re:Rewrite in C/C++ (1)

zippthorne (748122) | more than 2 years ago | (#36432106)

Read the updates.

Minecraft sucks up a LOT of cpu and RAM, it's true, but I'm eeking by on OS X with only 2 GB of ram, (256 mb of which is dedicated to the graphics card...)

The secret graphics setting the "performance: blah" switch (formerly the fps limit switch). Setting it to "max fps" will cause it to go way overboard with the chunk updates. It'll deliberately use all the cpu you've got for something. Your day-night transitions will, of course, be super fast as a result, but my suspicion, bolstered by what you just said, is that it will also fill the RAM information about all those hidden blocks around you out to .. as far as you have RAM to support....

My machine has only 2 GB max ram, and It always uses it right up to the limit (even though I use power-save mode) If I'm not careful, It'll start paging, which is what really kills the performance.. Do you have a similar experience despite having 8 GB of RAM?

I like it! (1)

robbyb20 (651479) | more than 2 years ago | (#36429830)

Personally, I love this game. ive grown tired of todays games and find that this one lets me do whatever i want and build whatever i dream of. I dont play with other people(never liked it in other games too) and dont play with the mobs, just peaceful mode. This game can create some beautiful landscapes and exploring to find them and then build ontop of them is very satisfying to me.

New Game Mode? WTF? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36430390)

Now, unless the author of this article has some sort of inside knowledge that Notch's blog didn't allude to, there isn't going to be a new game mode. NOTHING in the blog post suggests that, at all. Here, I'll post the part about the adventure update:

"We are working on Minecraft Beta 1.7, which I’m referring to as the “adventure update”. We’re keeping the details secret so people can get surprises. The idea with this update is to flesh out the game a bit, making it reward exploration and combat more. Assuming we like them in play testing, pistons are coming in 1.7."

Fleshing out the game, making it reward exploration and combat more. Now tell me, just WHERE does someone gather a new freaking game mode? Sounds like more stuff found in caves, maybe better loot for mobs, maybe even more mobs. Nowhere does it say anything at all about a new game mode.

That said, a new game mode as described in the article would be absolutely stupid, as there are very, very easy ways to do the same exact thing with Bukkit plugins.

Multiplayer Minecraft and Bukkit (1)

siegesama (450116) | more than 2 years ago | (#36430470)

Minecraft is sort-of-fun on its own, but the game really blossoms when you do something like run a Bukkit-based server and get a world or two going, get some of the important plugins going, and invite friends into your world. If it weren't for the Bukkit project I would have been done with Minecraft by the time Beta came out.

My greatest hope is that one day someone will bridge the gap between second-life and Minecraft and will create a game that has the flexibility and user-generated content from second-life with the simplicity and procedural block-based terrain of Minecraft. I want more blocks! I want scripted NPCs! I want Minecraft to be a MUCK!

  • http://bukkit.org/ Bukkit project
  • http://tumblr.preoccupied.net/ Tumblr for our minecraft server

Re:Multiplayer Minecraft and Bukkit (1)

ArsonSmith (13997) | more than 2 years ago | (#36431200)

I'd like to see a terrain smoothing algorithm that would allow the block placement but it'd find some way to make certain parts of terrain flow, like dirt sand and gravel, while having separate building materials that would come out square.

I have played with scripted NPCs in minecraft with npcx a bit on my server at mc.bongaming.com but the plugin was rather sketchy so I currently have it disabled.

Is this really what the players want?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36431486)

I'm happy just building shit. Just make building shit easier. (maybe build in some of the mod capabilities...)

I had a similar problem with Spore. The only thing I liked about Spore was the Creature Creator (which was worth the price of the game all by itself). The rest of the game seemed like a missed opportunity.

Re:Is this really what the players want?? (1)

devphaeton (695736) | more than 2 years ago | (#36432252)

I'm happy just building shit. Just make building shit easier. (maybe build in some of the mod capabilities...)

Me too. Sometimes, after a long day of work trudging the brain through a bunch of technical or stressful stuff, it's somehow relaxing just to break blocks and stack them somewhere else. I can even do it with a beer in the other hand.

If you want to build something, you can build it. If you just want to saunter along with no tangible goal for awhile, that's ok too. The stuff you collect will fuel the building later.

My biggest complaint is that I wish there was an easier way to dump large quantities of stuff into bins or your 'on person' inventory. You know, one or two clicks and "all cobblestone goes into the storage bin". Two more clicks and "you pick up all pickaxes".

Well that and lava. I've lost so much cool stuff by falling into lava lately.

Re:Is this really what the players want?? (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 2 years ago | (#36432882)

There are two main types of players, those who just want to build and those who want to adventure. I'm in the latter camp, I build a basic home and then go spelunking. Currently Terraria fills my needs much better than Minecraft does.

I wish it was more difficult to survive (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36431870)

Make consuming food and water required every day; lose health for every day you don't eat or drink. Add in famines/drought, irrigation; make farming alot more difficult. Make the pigs into wild boars that can gouge you with their tusks, sheep into mountain goats that can buck you off a cliff, cows into bulls that can charge and gore you with their horns; make hunting a lot more dangerous (and rewarding). Disease that can only be cured by crafting antidotes with ingredients that are hard to find. Require several days sleep/rest after sustaining too much battle damage; make zombies and skeletons do more damage and attack in greater numbers.

Re:I wish it was more difficult to survive (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 2 years ago | (#36432908)

Require several days sleep/rest after sustaining too much battle damage

That's just a waste of time, not much happens in Minecraft when you aren't around and staying indoors just means nothing happens outside.

What gets boring fast? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36432692)

Plugs for commercial games thinly disguised as news. It was cool to hear about it every five seconds while it was free, now it is time to back off.

Fix the bugs (1)

cforciea (1926392) | more than 2 years ago | (#36432784)

How about instead of new features, we get bug fixes so the game isn't shitty. Notch's QA process is literally letting people on IRC mess with it for a couple of hours and then he rolls it to live. His code base is also a pile of crap, so we get awesome (wiki adjusted) patch notes like this:

Bug Fixes:
Fixed new item duplication bug

New Bugs:
The item duplication bug was not actually fixed; items placed in a furnace can still be taken out of a furnace and duplicated infinitely by right-clicking (although it
appears the newly duplicated item will not function). Also, bug with cloned items being picked up after death wasn't fixed too.
When using a furnace and placing items into it, as soon as it's activated all items minus 1 are ejected and must be placed back in the furnace in order to use it.
Lighting is not always updated when digging new holes/tunnels, placing torches or setting blocks on fire (in both nether & normal world).
Tall grass can grow on dirt with no grass on it.
Shift-clicking something into a full chest from inventory or from chest into full inventory crashes the client.
It is now impossible to row a boat in 1 block deep water.
Sometimes (tested while in a boat on water, and when floating in water) while viewing a map the game will switch to a "saving chunks screen" then end on a black
screen.
When quitting game the "Saving Chunks" progress bar does not appear sometimes.
When loading a world and standing in a cave less than 4 blocks high, the player gets some initial damage (at least the damage sound appears).
"Out of memory" error. Often appears after the "blocks don't disappear" bug.

The following bugs only occur in new chunks generated in 1.6.2:
Some chunks don't get dark at night (and vice versa; some chunks stay dark during the day).
The textures don't load on some chunks (The blocks are present but with transparent textures).
Some blocks don't disappear after being broken; it appears as if the block is still there, but can be passed through.

Every time we get any sort of content update, we quit playing for a week as Notch puts out a few several new minor version updates to get the game to only have slightly more bugs than it had before the update, and then he gets bored and moves on to slowly working on another content update and mostly posting on his Twitter account about what video games he is playing all day and his experiences flying around the world on private jets and hanging out at the Playboy mansion.

Meanwhile, they announce two new versions of the game on two new platforms and those of us who put forth money to support an indie developer in return for future updates wonder how we got duped out of our money.

So you'll have to forgive me if I find it hard to contain my enthusiasm for the "Adventure update."

Re:Fix the bugs (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36433596)

Why did people pick this talentless idiot with no knowledge of game development to bestow their millions upon? Now that people are starting to realize they've been duped, this whole thing is going to seriously harm public respect for all indie developers, good and crap alike. I just hope there are enough people left with faith in the independent scene to keep it alive so that the whole thing doesn't disappear again as eager publishers jump in to obliterate their weakened opponents.

Dwarf Fortress (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36433542)

Obligatory Dwarf Fortress plug.

Minecraft is going to rip DF off and put the same features in.

Also, for fun, heres a update on the latest features dwarf fortress will be putting in:

"When somebody becomes a vampire during world gen, which still happens via the profaning mechanism for the next few days, they now feed on people within their town, causing their deaths. The ones I've got now all pass for their original creature type and still maintain all of their original positions. I've set up a little reputation profile now for these historical figures vs. the site entities, and it tracks the number of unsolved murders as well as the year they first appeared at the site after stopping the aging process. It'll periodically look at the number of weeks without aging and the number of murders and compare that to the population. The smaller the population, the more likely suspicion arises. At that point they can flee to another site where they are unknown or, lacking options, retreat to the wilds (or the sewers/catacombs once I do the sunlight tag, which I haven't finished yet). We're going to work a bit more with that -- hopefully we can see immortality cults and vampire tyrants willfully feeding on terrified subjects where we're beyond suspicion in rare instances. We'll see what happens tonight."

From - http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/

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