Beta

×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

RIM Struggles Continue

Soulskill posted more than 3 years ago | from the faltering-blackberry-crop dept.

Blackberry 197

dave562 writes with news of continued difficulties for Research in Motion, who yesterday announced a drop in profits, product delays and layoffs, causing their stock to plunge over 20%. "Why did RIM experience delays? Because RIM recognized that the current hardware wasn't cutting it, and had to upgrade to more powerful chipsets, co-chief executive Mike Lazaridis said. The first will be the BlackBerry Bold 9900 that RIM recently showed off." An article at the Wall Street Journal speculates that the company needs to be taken over or broken apart. "RIM’s operating system could be an intriguing purchase for Hewlett-Packard, which now owns the lovely but unpopular Palm operating system for smart phones. Handset makers like Motorola might be lured to buy The Astonishing Tribe, a Swedish company RIM recently bought that designs snazzy interfaces for smart phones. Patent companies, Google or other tech companies could scoop up QNX, the software company behind the PlayBook tablet computer, and RIM’s BBM messaging platform."

cancel ×

197 comments

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

No more (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36480428)

RIM jobs

Re:No more (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36480466)

When is the last time you have used blackberry phone ?

Re:No more (2)

hawguy (1600213) | more than 3 years ago | (#36480644)

When is the last time you have used blackberry phone ?

2 minutes ago.

The blackberry is still far superior for Exchange email and calendaring than any Android or iPhone device that I've tried.

Several execs in my company tried to move to shiny new iPhones, but all of them came back to Blackberries. Well, some carry both a BB and iPhone.

Re:No more (2)

ColdWetDog (752185) | more than 3 years ago | (#36480708)

The blackberry is still far superior for Exchange email and calendaring than any Android or iPhone device that I've tried..

That's the problem. They're great at that and not much else. iPhones and Androids are good at email and good at a whole bunch of things. I guess the market for really hardcore email / Exchange integration isn't all that big.

Re:No more (1)

hawguy (1600213) | more than 3 years ago | (#36481546)

The blackberry is still far superior for Exchange email and calendaring than any Android or iPhone device that I've tried..

That's the problem. They're great at that and not much else. iPhones and Androids are good at email and good at a whole bunch of things. I guess the market for really hardcore email / Exchange integration isn't all that big.

Yeah, I agree, my BB is great at email, but not so great at just about anything else (except SSH). I carry an Android for personal use and rarely use my Blackberry outside of business hours.

Re:No more (1)

tom17 (659054) | more than 3 years ago | (#36480714)

That's funny, 2 minutes ago here, but I detest it. Hate it hate it hate it.

I find my google calendar on my HTC Desire much nicer.

Sure, the exchange stuff is great for work, but that's it.

If RIM goes bust, maybe they will take the damn thing away! \o/

Re:No more (1)

slasher999 (513533) | more than 3 years ago | (#36481084)

OS/2 was superior to Windows of the time, Beta was superior to VHS, MCA was superior to ISA. All of those superior products died too.

Re:No more (1)

brantondaveperson (1023687) | more than 3 years ago | (#36481826)

OS/2 had no applications.

Beta tapes were 1 hour long (longer ones later, but it was too late by then). Plus they wore out faster.

MCA was a closed standard, ISA open.

There's always more to the equation than simple technical superiority.

Re:No more (1)

Bert64 (520050) | more than 3 years ago | (#36481092)

And very poor support for anything other than exchange...
I've used them at work, and not been terribly impressed... The requirement to run a separate proprietary server for blackberry, the need to use their own custom APNs, not being able to add more than one account, no support for imap/caldav/carddav/etc...
And email is their best feature, web browsing is pretty lousy, media support pretty poor, they are fairly mediocre voice handsets (especially with the tiny number keys for typing phone numbers)...
I personally find the iphone email client much better than the blackberry one too (i carry one of each, iphone for personal use and blackberry for work).

Re:No more (1)

vux984 (928602) | more than 3 years ago | (#36481262)

no support for imap/caldav/carddav/etc...

We have dozens of them where I work... most of them are using IMAP to access Google Apps Enterprise accounts. At least half of them have other email accounts set up as well.

Perhaps you found them so restrictive because of the policies IT had in place. Because at least half the stuff you are complaining about they do in fact do.

As for the iphone vs bb... i have an iphone, and for me its the right device. But the bb keyboard is FAR better for composing anything of any length than the touch only iphone.

I don't give a crap about 'apps' or 'games', but i do like the iphones contact manager and web browser better.

Media support I find irrelevant; I use my phone too much for productivity to waste battery listening to music on it... but I do find the iphone camera pretty dismal compared to most other phones.

Re:No more (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36480786)

Disclaimer: I'm a RIM employee.

We're not worried. We pulled in $700mil in profit last quarter. The market somehow believes that we're going out of business as a result. Our market cap is now less than our annual revenue. What kind of sense does that make?

Sure the product needs some work. If you think we're sitting idly on our hands, your wrong. But we're not exactly losing money, and we're a company with no debt and a $3B pile of cash. This stock market mess has made us an _amazing_ acquisition target, but we're nowhere near closing our doors.

Re:No more (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36480808)

if youre not worried you should be. you could say the same for nokia and look what that turd is doing. and BTW what the fuck were you guys thinking with the playbook ? throw out your turd of an OS and put your stuff on android. you dont know how to code -- get over it.

Re:No more (2)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 3 years ago | (#36480998)

I'd be worried if I were you. RIM's market share is being eaten into like crazy by Apple and all the 'Droids. I know of two medium sized companies in the last nine months who have dropped Blackberries for iPhones. I think the tide has turned.

Re:No more (2)

milkmage (795746) | more than 3 years ago | (#36481000)

um.. do you still have a job? I mean.. with layoffs and all.

Re:No more (2)

ICLKennyG (899257) | more than 3 years ago | (#36481260)

That's what Nokia said.

Woopdie do, you pulled in $700m in profit last quarter. Your competitors pulled in $6B and $2.3B (Apple and Google). They are eating your market share faster every day. Further, with increased pressure from IT managers to reduce infrastructure, your model of dedicated support hardware just doesn't make sense anymore. Keep fighting the good fight, but the market is reacting not to your current performance but to your future prospects.
You lost 5% of market share of new phone sales(30%-25%), and your market share dipped to 8.2 from 8.6 from just January to April. Apple is raking in the cash on their devices and you guys were there first.

Re:No more (2)

grub (11606) | more than 3 years ago | (#36481382)


If you think we're sitting idly on our hands, your wrong

I didn't know Lazaridis had a /. account.

Re:No more (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36481510)

You shouldn't be asserting what anyone should be thinking with that kind of spelling. Since you seem to be having great trouble with very simple things, let me patch up you're spelling until you can get back to the first grade.

What you typed:

Sure the product needs some work. If you think we're sitting idly on our hands, your wrong. But we're not exactly losing money,[...]

Corrected version:

Sure the product needs some work. If you think we're sitting idly on our hands, you're wrong. But we're not exactly losing money,[...]

Re:No more (1)

Man On Pink Corner (1089867) | more than 3 years ago | (#36481816)

As a RIM employee, you need to read this [blogspot.com] guy's thoughts on your company and its future. ("What's wrong with Blackberry...").

Now. No -- now as in right now.

Because right now, you're in a world of shit, regardless of what those balance statements are telling you.

RIM is still golden (-1, Troll)

pjh3000 (583652) | more than 3 years ago | (#36480452)

It's just a transition period for RIM. They have a diverse portfolio and deep pockets along with a huge stable of talent. I think they're just being slammed in the American media because they're a successful Canadian company that can go toe to toe with Google and Apple.

Re:RIM is still golden (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36480548)

They're being slammed because they put out subpar products not because they're Canadian. They fail to measure up to the functionality and ease of use that comes with Android and iOS. It's quite sad considering they started the smartphone.

Re:RIM is still golden (1)

rskbrkr (824653) | more than 3 years ago | (#36480588)

In what manner are they going toe to toe with Google or Apple? Every sales figure I've seen shows Droid and iPhone battling for the top two spot and Blackberry at number three and falling further behind. More businesses are adopting Droid and iPhone for the enterprise environment, while the short fad of teenboopers with Blackberry is long over. Storm was not well received, and Playbook was almost universally panned. Oh wait, it plays flash...

Re:RIM is still golden (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36480860)

To be fair, the playbook is really only panned because of Bridge/lack of email, which doesn't matter to most people with a blackberry. Well, I should say that it is only FAIRLY panned because of that. It still does have better hardware than the iPad2.

Re:RIM is still golden (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36480596)

Dead AND Canadian.

Re:RIM is still golden (3, Interesting)

errandum (2014454) | more than 3 years ago | (#36480608)

When they had a superior product they were on top. They failed to realize the threat the iPhone presented, and Google saw the potential of touch interfaces and joined the race on time.

RIM thought they were untouchable and when they decided to move it was a rushed response that came too late.

The only salvation I see for RIM is to embrace Android.

Port the encryption and infrastructure, along with the marvelous keyboards they make to Android and I'm sure they'll survive. Or even grow. Nothing is stopping them from trying and remember that they could even skin android to look like a blackberry. But it'd run aps and have an awesome browser and all the google utilities...

Re:RIM is still golden (2)

farnsworth (558449) | more than 3 years ago | (#36480822)

Port the encryption and infrastructure, along with the marvelous keyboards they make to Android and I'm sure they'll survive. Or even grow.

I had a company-issued blackberry for about a decade. Each year or 18 months or so they would get refreshed, and I'd get the latest model. The early models were solid and great in almost every way, but each subsequent model was worse than the one it replaced. They haven't made a decent keyboard in at least 5 years. Their screens got more pixels and more colors each year, but the overall quality of the screens got slowly worse. My employer supports iOS now, and I'm happy to never have to touch a blackberry again.

I also did some app development for blackberry devices, and I can tell you without a doubt they have the worst platform, the worst tools, and it's obvious they never cared about making development workable. I only ever saw one third-party non-game app that was decent, and I estimate it took 15 people 6 months to build that. Compare this to some of the iOS and Android apps that a single person can put out with a couple weeks worth of effort.

Going with Android seems like it would be akin to starting over. I don't see what assets they have that HTC or Samsung don't have. They have their Enterprise Server thing, but I don't understand what advantage that has over Exchange + ActiveSync which every other platform seems to support. I would be happy to be enlightened about what advantages Rim might have left.

Re:RIM is still golden (1)

kevinmenzel (1403457) | more than 3 years ago | (#36481120)

The Bold 9000 had a wonderful keyboard, and the 9900 is bringing back that keyboard.

Re:RIM is still golden (2)

swalve (1980968) | more than 3 years ago | (#36481876)

Agree 1000%. The Bold is what brought RIM from a corporate tool to the mainstream, and then they shit the bed by trying to gain marketshare by diluting the brand with cheap toy phones. They need to cede the toy marketplace to Apple and Android, and innovate and compete in the "really good communication tool" marketplace. The people who buy phones because of the bling factor are going to be awful customers anyway. Be the Mac of the phone world: develop and deliver on an idea that their hardware is expensive, and worth every penny. (Apple, sadly, has the reputation, but not the delivery.)

Re:RIM is still golden (1)

errandum (2014454) | more than 3 years ago | (#36481158)

I do believe the crappy keyboards were the ones that did not follow the monolithic approach that got them famous. All the keyboards I've tried (recent or old) that had that familiar layout worked great (my opinion, obviously)

Re:RIM is still golden (1)

munky99999 (781012) | more than 3 years ago | (#36480988)

No. QNX is an epic base. They just need to open their platform up and allow developers free reign like android has.

Re:RIM is still golden (1)

errandum (2014454) | more than 3 years ago | (#36481146)

QNX might be the best thing ever. They got here too late, in my opinion.

Most would argue Mac OS X is the best operative system on the market (I believe it is) but it's current market share is around 7%. Quality does not mean you'll win.

And so far, QNX is a package full of great intentions, not yet a finalized and actually good thing (from what I read)

Re:RIM is still golden (1)

avatar139 (918375) | more than 3 years ago | (#36481426)

When they had a superior product they were on top. They failed to realize the threat the iPhone presented, and Google saw the potential of touch interfaces and joined the race on time.

RIM thought they were untouchable and when they decided to move it was a rushed response that came too late.

The only salvation I see for RIM is to embrace Android.

Port the encryption and infrastructure, along with the marvelous keyboards they make to Android and I'm sure they'll survive. Or even grow. Nothing is stopping them from trying and remember that they could even skin android to look like a blackberry. But it'd run aps and have an awesome browser and all the google utilities...

I think what you're forgetting here that a lot of their business sales revenue results from using their mobile platform to leverage their proprietary BlackBerry Enterprise Server sales so I find it pretty unlikely that RIM would choose to suddenly discard that higher-margin strategy in favor of choosing to go to Android which is already overcrowded with handset vendors churning out cheap low-margin phones.

Honestly, while I think RIM's attitude towards developers really hasn't done them in any favors in recent years, I think the biggest thing that's been killing them is one of pitfalls that Google is starting to fall into, which is having numerous channels of software sales distribution which makes application installation and deployment way, WAY more complicated then it's worth compared to iOS devices.

They have carrier specific stores, handset specific stores, and more recently even device specific stores, so let's face it, if most SysAdmins have to do a bunch of research just to figure out where to get applications from and how to deploy said applications on a specific series of devices, few consumers (no matter how tech-savy) are going to be prepared to put with all the confusion which is why I think migration on both the consumer and corporate side will continue to steadily head away from RIM to other mobile operating systems until RIM's management FINALLY figures out that the mobile market has changed greatly and they can grow a pair to enable them to finally stand up to the carriers when they try to dictate separate stores and what features should be included in the hardware design (case in point on that was letting Verizon kill wi-fi on the Storm)!

So.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36480682)

Lazaridis and Balsillie is that of you?

Re:RIM is still golden (1)

pushing-robot (1037830) | more than 3 years ago | (#36480694)

Hey—ignore all the haters. I'm just glad to hear you could find work, especially in this economy, and with that job in Iraq on your CV.

RIM Reminds Me Of Slashdot (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36480454)

Early leaders in their respective fields, but then got lazy because they didn't think their customers would go anywhere.

Then technologies and features got old and stale, and by the time they realized it, it could never catch up again.

These days, both RIM and slashdot are pretty much doing a slow drain around the bowl. Sad, because you remember what once was, and what could have been.

Re:RIM Reminds Me Of Slashdot (3, Funny)

kwerle (39371) | more than 3 years ago | (#36480712)

I have an iPhone.

Where do I go for my /. replacement?

Re:RIM Reminds Me Of Slashdot (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36480754)

Hacker News or Reddit /r/programming or other technical reddits.

Re:RIM Reminds Me Of Slashdot (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36480828)

Slashdot is still far superior to those piles of shit. Hacker News is nothing but armchair "entrepreneurs" going on and on about their "startups". Reddit is nothing but hipsters who pop stiffies for Ruby and Macs. At least Slashdot has a variety of personalities and opinions.

Re:RIM Reminds Me Of Slashdot (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 3 years ago | (#36480894)

Reddit is the Blackberry to Slashdot's iPhone.

Yes, the discrepancy is that high. Even Digg is preferred over Reedit. Even Digg 2.0...

Slashdot still draws a very decent readership level.

Re:RIM Reminds Me Of Slashdot (1)

Nethead (1563) | more than 3 years ago | (#36481198)

And, can we keep our low UIDs when we move? Didn't think so. I like being an old fart on the legacy service. Hell, I remember when images.slashdot.org was on a 90MHz Pentium box running slackware.

I guess that's why I still have my Blackberry. And T-Mobile let's me tether it on Ubuntu.

And why yes! I am a ham radio operator. Did you want to see my 77 baud Teletype?

Re:RIM Reminds Me Of Slashdot (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36481704)

"let's"?

Re:RIM Reminds Me Of Slashdot (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36480800)

Where do I go for my /. replacement?

ars?

Re:RIM Reminds Me Of Slashdot (1)

snowraver1 (1052510) | more than 3 years ago | (#36481606)

While I agree that ars has better editing and stories, /.'s discussion system is what keeps me coming back.

Re:RIM Reminds Me Of Slashdot (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36481246)

I saw something that could be interesting on /r/shamelessplug: http://www.hubholic.com/ [hubholic.com] Brand new, looks like it's in beta...least user ratings work...I think. so now the trick is to only tell competent people about it and take over the electronics and math/science sections ....or not, 99% sure it'll just crash and burn like most websites that are starting out.

Re:RIM Reminds Me Of Slashdot (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36481450)

I have an iPhone.

Where do I go for my /. replacement?

Reddit

Slahsdot is the best!!!1111!! (1)

kvvbassboy (2010962) | more than 3 years ago | (#36481624)

I have visited OSNews a few times, and the readership there is decent, albeit not as good as slashdot. However, when it comes to news about Microsoft, I definitely prefer reading the articles and comments there. Slashdot has too many trolls, $hills and fanbois. Not everybody mind you, but it's not as easy to find unbiased opinions.

Re:RIM Reminds Me Of Slashdot (1)

swalve (1980968) | more than 3 years ago | (#36481892)

Metafilter. That's where you go for smug self-importance.

Re:RIM Reminds Me Of Slashdot (5, Interesting)

jawtheshark (198669) | more than 3 years ago | (#36480732)

Pray tell me where I can get the intelligent (or at least semi-intelligent) discussions we used to have on slashdot in the olden days? I partially blame the fact that slashdot has become less interesting because I learned so much from it. Once you assimilated some knowledge, it becomes less interesting even though it gets featured again on slashdot.

True, slashdot has changed, the audience most likely has changed too. I still wait for a place "better" than slashdot and I'll be glad to get some links.

Compared to so many other sites, the intellectual level here in slashdot is astonishingly high. Go read the comments on youtube or yahoo answers sometimes. If you hate the spelling and grammar mistakes here and people who can't discern college and collage, or weather and whether, then you'll puke your guts out on every other site out there.

Re:RIM Reminds Me Of Slashdot (4, Interesting)

cyber-vandal (148830) | more than 3 years ago | (#36480830)

I've been visiting this site since 1998 and have yet to find somewhere else where so many comments are well thought out and rational. I don't think there's too many places on the net where you could have this level of conversation. Kuro5hin used to be good but 9/11 turned its members into rednecks pretty much overnight. It has its flaws, the Javascript bugs being the most annoying, but it was my first internet forum and I doubt I'll stop visiting any time soon.

Re:RIM Reminds Me Of Slashdot (4, Funny)

krewemaynard (665044) | more than 3 years ago | (#36481102)

ME TOO LOLOL!!!!!!!!!!11

Re:RIM Reminds Me Of Slashdot (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36481036)

Pray tell me where I can get the intelligent (or at least semi-intelligent) discussions we used to have on slashdot in the olden days?

When the mods kill the AJAX and force everyone back to classic discussion mode.

If I have to click on every comment to expand it in full, you can be damn sure I'm going to ignore 99% of the discussion. If users could, with a single mouseclick, view the entire discussion (whether I start at 0, -1, or 1), they might be more inclined to read the threads and contribute.

(Interesting metric: I wonder how many active posters are reading in Slash 3.0, 2.0, or Classic, and how that compared to a year or two ago?)

Re:RIM Reminds Me Of Slashdot (5, Insightful)

kungfoolery (1022787) | more than 3 years ago | (#36481442)

Slashdot: we're less dumb than everywhere else!

Re:RIM Reminds Me Of Slashdot (1)

nemasu (1766860) | more than 3 years ago | (#36481482)

How about....a 'special' comment section where you have to solve a graduate level problem to get entry.

Re:RIM Reminds Me Of Slashdot (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36481592)

"Compared to so many other sites, the intellectual level here in slashdot is astonishingly high. Go read the comments on youtube or yahoo answers sometimes. If you hate the spelling and grammar mistakes here and people who can't discern college and collage, or weather and whether, then you'll puke your guts out on every other site out there."

Try arstechnica.com or many of the other sites that have picked up. I've been an AC on Slashdot for over tens years now and I assure you that the discussions were way more intelligent back in the day. These days, it's fairly common to see a contentless one-liner modded +5 insightful or unsourced hyperbolic statements modded +5 informative, many of which could be well placed on Glen Beck's show. Back then, it wasn't uncommon to have someone who was (or claimed to be), for example, a philosophy professor, make a long insightful post that would blow away typical computer geeks like us. Those types seem to have all but driven off. It use to be common to read a random Slashdot article and see a mini technology celebrity like John Carmack make a post about something unrelated to his field and make posts on topics related to his field. Whenever Nasa did something cool and there was a slashdot post on it, you'd see some of the actual engineers making posts about it and answering questions. There are still a few posters like that, but not nearly as many as there use to be.

Back then, there seemed to be more of an understanding among Slashdot posters that technology was ultimately about solving people problems and there was an appreciation of the perspective from other fields, even the humanities, there seemed to be an understanding that learning to code at ten years old isn't a novelty and doesn't make you a genius, there wasn't this adolescent I'm a genius special snowflake complex, there was an understanding that knowing how to use computers doesn't make you an expert in other subjects.

I could go on, but I'm ranting at this point. Slashdot was way better, or maybe I'm just getting old...

Re:RIM Reminds Me Of Slashdot (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36481792)

Yeah, except that slashdot isn't run by a cabal of "management" assholes who treat everyone under them as though they are incompetent assholes. In the early press releases Mike Lazaridis refused to blame the management team. The management "team" is the fucking problem.

I'm SICK of the myth that RIM is run by a group of brilliant people who invented the smartphone and all things nice and shiny.

RIM did NOT invent the smartphone. RIM invented a pager that did interactive messaging. It's what they were good at. They only jumped on the smartphone bandwagon when they realized everyone ELSE was promoting 3rd party applications ("apps" to you 13-year-old-shitheads) on their phones. Ask yourself: WHEN did "Appworld" appear? The train had already left the fucking station.

RIM existed simply because they provided something no one else did: messageing.. BBM, a glorified AIM. When 9/11 happened RIM was the cat's ass WHY? Because NO ONE ELSE was using the old, antiquated, slow and shitty Mobitex network. But that was an eternity ago. Talk about dumb luck...that's like saying "the internet is down" but the guys to save the day were using X.25.

So after Apple had already won the game, RIM comes along with the Playbook...based on QNX, an operating system that has always been lauded but NEVER, EVER succeeded. But RIM FAILS to put this great OS on their phones...STILL. So now devs have to choose between a 10 year old crappy API BBOS or QNX. And the NEW RIM phones don't support QNX. The Playbook is DOA.

Slashdot? Slashdot is a teenaged idea that evolved into adulthood. In the teenaged years, this place was all about Linux. Now CmdrTaco uses a fucking Mac. Hell we used to shed blood here over GNOME vs. KDE...nowadays that's the kindergarten playground.

RIM IS CIRCLING THE BOWL !! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36480456)

It always has been a turd of canadian heritage so all the more fitting.

Get 'em HP! (2)

Sponge Bath (413667) | more than 3 years ago | (#36480476)

HP can do for RIM what they did for DEC and Palm... and er, HP.

Re:Get 'em HP! (1)

LurkerXXX (667952) | more than 3 years ago | (#36480802)

Dumb idea by WSJ for HP to buy Nokia's OS. Really Dumb.

Nokia's OSs:

Symbian: Their main OS. Old and busted. It needs updating in a major way, which isn't happening, which is why they went to Meemo.

Meemo: Cool version of Linux that they didn't get behind fully and refused to throw the resources they needed to into to get it up to snuff quickly. Nokia is a big company with a lot of money. They just refused to spend enough of it quickly enough to get the OS going. This is the same issue HP is having now with their version of Linux, WebOS.

Yeah, yeah, I hear some folks saying 'mythical man month', 'it just couldn't be done that quickly'. BS. Google did it with another flavor of Linux, Android.

Meamo/Meego. After botching Meamo, they decided to F' it up even more by combining it with Moblin to make yet another version of Linux that they wouldn't put resources behind. Any Lessons learned? Nope. Now they moved on to Windows Phone...

In the meantime Palmdeveloped a great OS in WebOS. Palm was small and poor and didn't have the resources necessary to pour into it to get it things where they should be. No office editing software, no flash, no lots of things. Lots of promising things were coming, but not enough cash to hire the developers to make it happen. Not enough cash to make several models of phones, and of the two models they did make, the Pre and Pixie, the higher end model, the Pre, had lots of hardware issues, making them Sprints all time leader on phones-needing-repairs.

HP buys Palm for WebOS. The problem? They, just like Nokia, aren't putting enough resource into getting software developed for it, or new hardware out to run it on.

The Pre3 is going to be launched 'soon'. Their new flagship phone. It's hardware is mediocre at best compared to new hardware that is out now, and more that will be available before it is launched. HP doesn't have any hardware engineers who could have worked on something more up to scratch in the last year?

Oh, and their new tablet, the TouchPad. Targeted at the enterprise. And it will be launched without any document editing software. No document editing. For enterprise...

Not even a powerpoint viewer. For enterprise...

Are you telling me HP couldn't afford to hire some extra devs to get something running on it, or at least ported? In the last year? Really? They are HP for f**k's sake.

Buying Symbian/Meamo/Meego will do absolutely nothing for them because the management is screwing up. Another OS in the same state isn't going to fix that.

Re:Get 'em HP! (1)

LurkerXXX (667952) | more than 3 years ago | (#36480874)

Ack, I'm an idiot. RIM, not Nokia.

RIM has good potential with QNX. It's an awesome OS.

HP buying it would be the same deal though. It doesn't have apps, needs relevant hardware, and needs development a lot of resources through at it to get it up to polish. HP has been making horrible decisions with all those things. Hopefully RIMs management will do better and learn from HP and Nokia's mistakes.

Fatal flaw (2)

arcite (661011) | more than 3 years ago | (#36480502)

The RIM tablet version 1.0 was unable to access email without tethering. I mean...what were they thinking? Time to parter with Microsoft or face the Abyss.

Re:Fatal flaw (1)

jjetson (2041488) | more than 3 years ago | (#36480628)

I got a Playbook from work on day 1. And on day 1 it had the ability to log into my gmail account using mobile gmail and it looked good and worked good. My work email could also be accessed through webmail. Not sure where you're getting this "The RIM tablet version 1.0 was unable to access email without tethering". But it's 100% false. If you're talking about BlackBerry Bridge, that allows you to connect to your BlackBerry device and interface with it in certain ways. One of which is the ability to view/create/delete etc. email thats on a BlackBerry.

Re:Fatal flaw (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36480784)

Obviously i think arcite was talking about Blackberry Bridge...

A blackberry device that cant view your blackberry emails without hooking it up to another blackberry device? Why would someone desiring blackberry email service want a device that cant run this without another device? And why are you surprised this concept was lost by the target market?

BlackBerry Bridge isn't a feature, its a clunky bolt-on piece of junk. If a customer wants to view webmail they could have purchased any other industry leading tablet for a comparable price with 10x larger app and content ecosystem.

Re:Fatal flaw (1)

jjetson (2041488) | more than 3 years ago | (#36480952)

Obviously? Saying something doesn't access email != saying something doesn't access Blackberry email accounts. Which by the way can be accessed by 3rd party apps. I have no problems with Bridge and use it for BBM all the time. 10x larger app and content ecosystem? Only iPad has more tablet specific apps. You're a prime example of the ignorance prevalent in the mobile industry right now. I had a choice between an iPad (about 10 of my co-workers have them), and a PlayBook. After fooling around with the iPad I choose the PlayBook and whether you want to believe it or not 3 guys in my department wanted to trade in their iPads for a PlayBook. Mind you they got turned down and now have to keep the iPads.

Re:Fatal flaw (1)

iluvcapra (782887) | more than 3 years ago | (#36480642)

The RIM tablet version 1.0 was unable to access email without tethering.

They think the tablet is just a peripheral of the phone. Apple spent a long time thinking iPhones are a peripheral of iTunes and have only very recently changed their tune. Of course, iTunes is a free computer program you download off the internet and a BB smartphone is an expensive smartphone... Okay so maybe they aren't thinking.

Time to parter with Microsoft or face the Abyss.

Or Google? Seems like an Android, customized for BES might be a spicy meatball in this market. Ya know, iPhone-competitive handset software with Blackberry-level corporate administration, no weird Apple procurement issues, etc...

Of course, it was a good idea they shoulda had two years ago, before they committed to QNX and their particular strategy, and the last several years of fog and fail.

As it is, it's not "time" for them to partner with anybody, as they aren't going to have new phones out until spring 2012 as it is. The time for partnering has passed, and announcing a new platform now would push that to winter, and RIMs strategic roadmap into Osborne territory.

Oh, that'd be perfect for HP. (2)

FooAtWFU (699187) | more than 3 years ago | (#36480538)

Look! Let's buy out another failing company with a somewhat-interesting product to replace the last failing company with a somewhat-interesting product we bought. That'll totally work.

It's like when they bought Colubris to replace their Symbol OEM APs, only to buy 3Com a little while later. I dunno, maybe they can squeeze some money out of it.

Re:Oh, that'd be perfect for HP. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36480624)

Rim probably is a good takeover candidate, but maybe from a lower price. Their user base has to be appealing to any number of handset vendors. I don't see how Rim can continue, either. Between iOS, Android and Windows Phone, there is no space left for them in the market. Currently they can hang on given their exclusive designation as a handset provider to the US Government, but all of the other handset/OS providers are going through the same approval process.

The best way for HP to make money from Rim would be to buy hundreds of put and call options on the stock, since I doubt it will stay at the current price for long. Given HPs track record with Palm, that seems to be the best <pun>option.</pun>

Re:Oh, that'd be perfect for HP. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36480762)

Heh, I left HP in another country in 2007 and came to Canada. Got a job offer at RIM, but took a better offer in downtown Toronto. If I had taken the RIM JOB and HP buys them out, that would have been the 2nd time I was 'taken over' into HP. I was Compaq when they got imbibed.

As it is, I am in a small company and miss the big companies. I was in MS before Compaq, maybe I should take on e of those IBM contracts.

RIM makes BlackBerry that can’t read email (3, Funny)

David Gerard (12369) | more than 3 years ago | (#36480544)

Research in Motion have broken new barriers with the PlayBook tablet [newstechnica.com] , a BlackBerry that can’t read email. And needs to be tethered to a phone.

“We feel a technology preview is just the thing we need to fight iPhone and Android in the consumer market,” said founder and co-CEO Mike Lazaridis. “The missing core functionality should be seen as areas of spectacular potential. Also, the board has ascertained that you should stay away from the brown acid, it’s not so good.”

The PlayBook has launched remarkably, with thousands of the devices being recalled for crippling operating system bugs straight after release.

In a double-tap Osborne through the head, the PlayBook uses the new QNX BlackBerry OS, which does not run current BlackBerry apps, will not be available on phones for another year and will not work on any current BlackBerry device. This is separate from OS 7, to be released soon, which will also not work on any existing BlackBerry. RIM’s present mobile carrier partners were “overwhelmed” to be stuck with so much already-obsolete stock.

RIM led the world into the smartphone era, several years before Apple’s iPhone turned everyone into the sort of twat you only ever used to see carrying a BlackBerry.

Technology industry rumours suggest a Microsoft takeover of RIM, considered an excellent match in competence and vision. “Synergy’s just another word for two and two makes one!” said Steve Ballmer. “We will assimilate your technological stench of death into our own.”

People still buy blackberries? (0)

Gothmolly (148874) | more than 3 years ago | (#36480568)

Wow, RIM is still around?

Re:People still buy blackberries? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36480930)

RIM is still one of the best choices in the enterprise world and it'll be a while before that ever changes. Apple and Google are still playing catch-up with everything that BES provides.

Your average phone user is gonna want the latest greatest iOS/Android device that can do all sorts of neat things.

Your average business is going to want a device that's rock solid reliable that keeps their employees in sync. Blackberry was designed for enterprise and they still hold their own in that market. I have Android/iOS/Blackberry devices and I can honestly say I still prefer Blackberry's messaging over everything else.

Re:People still buy blackberries? (1)

Bert64 (520050) | more than 3 years ago | (#36481190)

The "enterprise" market is a boring one... You get boring, corporate-grey products... And your company will get a reputation for providing boring products that are only used at work. Devices will always be old, and have be several years behind in features.
The margins won't be great either, companies refresh their hardware slowly and will always look to save money.

Re:People still buy blackberries? (1)

stewbacca (1033764) | more than 3 years ago | (#36481742)

RIM is still one of the best choices in the enterprise world and it'll be a while before that ever changes.

Or one more Blackberry outage (this week) oughta do the trick.

The brown RIM (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36480582)

Plunging, sinking, and expanding... [goo.gl]

Lack of open software/hardware standards (1)

DemonGenius (2247652) | more than 3 years ago | (#36480634)

With companies like RIM offering their own mobile hardware and OS, they leave themselves vulnerable to being irrelevant against whoever happens to be the biggest fish in town for the year. Android handset manufacturers have it a bit better with a common OS, but they still have to churn out a new device practically every few months to remain relevant. I'm in no way an Apple fan and have bought none of their products, but they seem to be the only player who gets how to remain relevant by having standardized hardware and a standardized OS, which equates to a standardized user experience, much closer to how it is with PCs. Only problem with Apple is that they are only in it for themselves and do not like the idea of giving their users true choice.

What we need now is the creation of standardized and open handset form factors and open handset hardware which is also to a degree standardized. I'd really like to see a revolution in handset hardware similar to when the ATX form factor was introduced for PCs. Companies like RIM, Apple, Samsung, Google, Nokia, etc. would have so much to offer the industry if they all play on a more even playing field. I'd prefer this to seeing companies like RIM fail and have their customer base give more market share to other companies that directly oppose the direction mobile devices should take.

Re:Lack of open software/hardware standards (2)

CrackedButter (646746) | more than 3 years ago | (#36480774)

As an iOS user, what is this 'true choice' you speak of, enlighten me.

Re:Lack of open software/hardware standards (5, Funny)

iluvcapra (782887) | more than 3 years ago | (#36480928)

What we need now is the creation of standardized and open handset form factors and open handset hardware which is also to a degree standardized.

The Android platform is a defacto hardware standard. This hardware really isn't that sophisticated -- ARM cores, common chipsets, Android can be made to run on an iPhone [pcworld.com] after all, there's really no barrier to a manufacturer, as long as they use ARM.

Android handset manufacturers have it a bit better with a common OS, but they still have to churn out a new device practically every few months to remain relevant. [...] Only problem with Apple is that they are only in it for themselves and do not like the idea of giving their users true choice.

"Churning out" a new device every few months is the way manufacturers provide "true choice." You can either buy the 4G phone with a kickstand and an undeleteable Blockbuster app, or a Sprint phone with a hardware keyboard and is locked to Eclair, or a slider with MOTOBLUR. And none of these ever get their software updated without an act of congress, thus justifying the next phone in the churn cycle. Behold consumer choice.

Apple succeeds at remaining relevant, as you say, probably because their product and platform maps to consumer demand very well, and their platform doesn't try to recreate the, uh, "dynamism and competition" of the Wintel PC market, circa 1995 (an era in the history of computing I would consider one big, abominable mistake). Of course Apple is "only in it for themselves," unlike the well-known altruists at Samsung and Google.

Re:Lack of open software/hardware standards (4, Insightful)

gilesjuk (604902) | more than 3 years ago | (#36480994)

Why does everything have to be open? the "built it yourself" PC market is a niche for geeks. Most computers sold now are laptops which may as well be made by the person selling you the OS as they're not built to any generic standard internally. So why aren't people complaining about the laptop market not being "open"?

RIM isn't dying because they have a bad product, they are dying because they are a phone associated with business and consumers wanting a personal phone don't want a phone from a stuffy business orientated vendor.

RIM had one or two killer ideas, Push Email and Remote Wipe. Both are commonplace elsewhere now, although Push Email tends to be done differently on non-RIM devices due to their patent.

RIM released a tablet computer that has none of their strengths in corporate phones, no email, no 3G connectivity and the usability was criticised too, O2 in the UK refuse to sell it for that reason.

Re:Lack of open software/hardware standards (1)

iluvcapra (782887) | more than 3 years ago | (#36481164)

Or, sorry to beat around the bush, but, I think it's arguable that it's simply not possible to offer cellphone handsets on a generic hardware platform, with PC hardware competition, diversity and profit margins, and a 2nd-party OS that is written and steered by its own agendas (open or otherwise), while at the same time making a phone that actually addresses people's wants and needs as well as something that just comes, complete and full integrated, of a vertical assembly line. This certainly seems to be the tack HP has taken with WebOS and Motorola may still take. It's not working for RIM but RIM's been simply making a subpar product for the last several years. People seem to like the Nexus phones best, there's a reason for that -- Google gets so much say over them they really aren't 3rd party phones anymore.

For mass market desktop PCs or laptops, vertical integration hasn't historically been as sustainable (Apple does it now but wasn't always so lucky), and observing that a vertically-integrated, single-sourced phone platform can address people's needs better isn't the same as saying closed computing addresses peoples needs better than open computing, or that Apple now has a free hand to take over the world, or that tyranny wins. These are over-generalizations based on the flawed idea that a phone is "just a computer."

It's not like we offer open hardware platforms for things like radios or washing machines, letting different vendors and partners construct them as they please and enabling the end user easy hacking -- an appliance toaster from Krupp and no one else will always beat an Android toaster with user-customizable filaments. Just because a phone is a little computer doesn't mean people need or want it to do everything on their desk does, and any compromise made to chase the desktop ideal can weigh the products down against integrated competition.

Palm 2.0 (3, Insightful)

WoTG (610710) | more than 3 years ago | (#36480654)

I've always thought of RIM as Palm Pilot, the next generation. The same people who bought the first PDA's from Palm were the first to use Black Berries. Carrying contacts and calendars around was, and is, a very good thing. But, when Black Berries did that, plus email, Palm's weren't competitive anymore. It took awhile, but Palm has all but disappeared (I know, Palm is now buried in HP somewhere.)

Well, email on a phone isn't a big selling feature anymore. It's all about the apps and web access. Email is just the bare minimum - a minimum that RIM couldn't even meet on their Playbook tablet launch (WTF!?)

So... as a Canadian, I'm sad to see RIM's decline. The game isn't over yet, there's still value in the Enterprise and Government sectors... for a while anyway. But, I think their days as a consumer brand are numbered. There really isn't room for 4 platforms in the mobile space... even 3 platforms is pushing it. iOS and Android are here for at least the medium term. Windows Phone and RIM have to fight it out for a distant #3.

If I had to bet, within 5 years, Microsoft will buy either all of RIM, or the pieces - both largely serve the corporate markets.

The good, the bad, and ugly (1)

UnknowingFool (672806) | more than 3 years ago | (#36480726)

The good: RIM is still profitable making $695M and had $700M more revenue. They have nearly $2B in cash with $13B overall assets.

The bad: They made $769M profit same time last year while taking in less revenue so they are not growing in terms of profit. The PlayBook sold only 500K. Apple sold 3.27M iPads in slightly more than the first quarter it was available when it launched last year.

The ugly: Besides the delays and layoffs, does the management think newer hardware will solve their problems.

Re:The good, the bad, and ugly (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36480986)

They didn't *sell* 500K PlayBooks, they *shipped* 500K PlayBooks into the sales channel. There's a big difference there. Considering they wouldn't reveal how many they actually sold, I'm guessing it's a number far lower than 500K.

Bitcoin? (2, Funny)

bigsexyjoe (581721) | more than 3 years ago | (#36480730)

This story needs a nice bitcoin tie-in. For example, what is the values of RIM in bitcoin?

Re:Bitcoin? (2)

turkeyfeathers (843622) | more than 3 years ago | (#36481184)

In the long run, RIM and bitcoin will tend towards the same value.

Never did get why .. (1)

wisnoskij (1206448) | more than 3 years ago | (#36480738)

They just kept releasing a bunch of basically identical models or why their profits would fall that far simply because a BB with a new outter shell was not released for a few months.

Did anyone read that as "RMS Struggles Continue"? (0)

Rene S. Hollan (1943) | more than 3 years ago | (#36480760)

Just wondering.

Re:Did anyone read that as "RMS Struggles Continue (0)

gehrehmee (16338) | more than 3 years ago | (#36480834)

That was my first reading too.

Good riddance to bad rubbish (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36480844)

Seriously their server infrastructure stuff is a nightmare, how can it use over a gig of ram to just pass along emails and a few phone settings. The months of support delay for mail server versions, patches and service packs don't help either.

Look at it (1)

joh (27088) | more than 3 years ago | (#36480898)

RIM could have ported their software to iOS, Android, WebOS or WP7 and just stopped making their own hardware and OS. The real value of RIM is not in the phones -- it's the IP, the software and the customers they have. There's real value and money in the enterprise market but nobody really cares very strongly about which phone RIM sells. Having a choice of phones with a common software/apps/protocols stack for secure messaging would have been not a bad thing.

Now there's a chance that someone buys them or they having to do a Nokia sooner or later. Accepting the unavoidable earlier would have been better.

Or RIM is saved by the PlayBook. Even trying this is madness, I would say.

Re:Look at it (1)

Lehk228 (705449) | more than 3 years ago | (#36481128)

if anything they should do the opposite and launch a line of android blackberries, faster spec'd phones with the blackberry keyboard running android OS, also include some sort of open architecture TPM so IT departments can enforce data security with the new phones just like they can with blackberries.

Re:Look at it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36481858)

You mean the Moto Droid Pro?

Re:Look at it (1)

CharlyFoxtrot (1607527) | more than 3 years ago | (#36481774)

No one at RIM is dumb enough to trust Apple, Google or Microsoft. If they went that way it'd be just be a matter of time before they were replaced by one of those companies' own service or became no more than one of many competing services on an OS they couldn't control. The likes of Apple certainly wouldn't allow an application to hook so deep into the OS to allow things like remote wipe, Android would necessitate development of many different tweaks for all the different hardware/OS version/operator combinations (death by a million pinpricks) and nobody ever came out on top trusting MS.

RIM is outmatched (1)

Flector (1702640) | more than 3 years ago | (#36480972)

on all sides

"co-chief" executive (1)

komissar (552681) | more than 3 years ago | (#36481008)

the words "co" and "chief" are mutually exclusive when applied to "executive." that's their first problem.

I think I've heard this story before (1)

bobstreo (1320787) | more than 3 years ago | (#36481054)

Technical company with large installed base gets lazy and stupid.
Examples:
Palm
Nokia
Rim
Companies that did a 360 on their products and did OK:
Motorola

With some of the new stuff coming out for smartphones like the Iphone and Androids, RIM phones are becoming less
relevant by the minute.

HW focus = fail (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36481104)

By focusing blame on the hardware, RIM is guaranteed to fail. The HW is relatively straight-forward to update. Their biggest weakness is their legacy mobile OS and inability to attract as many developers as Apple or Google. They focused almost exclusively on the 'boring' business market and are now paying the price.

Developers Developers Developers Developers (1)

munky99999 (781012) | more than 3 years ago | (#36481124)

Developers Developers Developers Developers say what you will about Ballmer's stability but he's dead on. Developers drive platforms. Before Android you had essentially RIM vs Apple and Apple was moderately more open. Guess where all the developers went? Now Android came along and they are basically bending over backwards trying to get as many developers as possible and because of it they have become the largest market share.

If Developers are on a fence between android and RIM. RIM is smeegol in the corner saying "my precious blackberry nobody will touch you but me my precious." while android is on the other side of the fence screaming "come over here damnit come over here. free gadgets, free laptops, android everything."

If RIM wants to make a comeback.. they need to get some new revolutionary patent(prob isnt going to happen) or they need to be as open as android. Which basically means open source through and through. Which in my opinion isnt going to happen unless the executives all get fired.

Over Analysis (1)

stewbacca (1033764) | more than 3 years ago | (#36481342)

The media is seriously over analyzing RIM's woes. It takes 5 minutes of hands-on use to see that Blackberries are woefully behind iPhones and Android devices.

post secondary (1)

munky99999 (781012) | more than 3 years ago | (#36481384)

I finished post secondary about 1 year ago and I had a person helping me find a job and she points out RIM is hiring like 5000 people a year that I should apply there. I say to her, "Android is going to explode in popularity and because of it RIM is going to lose market share heavily and 1 year from now RIM is going to start firing people and since their mentality is so proprietary and closed source they wont change and wont recover unless a miracle." 1 year is almost upon us and I was right.

The reality is that place is like area 51. You go there and you need to swipe ID basically everywhere you go, you could hide the stanley cup inside there and it would go missing for a very long time. A business like this isnt an open business and isnt going to be changing anytime soon unless the highest level execs get fired.

Don't worry about RIM (1)

ControlsGeek (156589) | more than 3 years ago | (#36481570)

Apple has problems, Just started re-calling the Ipad 2 . Remember Apple? That little company with 2 CEO's ? Now has one left and He's on his last legs?

The Iphone 4 was a real problem they never really solved the antenna issue. And now Samsung is cloning the next generation.

Android ? Just a hackers wet dream.

Get serious.

Re:Don't worry about RIM (1)

Flector (1702640) | more than 3 years ago | (#36481776)

Apple still thinks people can type on flat screens and only need one battery per device.

QNX's Neutrino is used for more than phones (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36481710)

Google or other tech companies could scoop up QNX, the software company behind the PlayBook tablet computer, and RIMâ(TM)s BBM messaging platform.

I am still shaking my head on the RIM purchase. Actually, I was shaking my head when Harman bought them. Neutrino continues to find use in products in the medical, aerospace, rail and automobile transit, computer networking, and defense comminucation and weapon markets. I am not exactly sure why a Google would want QNX since most of their business from embedded licenses are in industries Google has no presence. The mobile phone market is puny for QNX.

Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?
or Connect with...

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>