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Authorities Closing On LulzSec

CmdrTaco posted more than 3 years ago | from the lul-me-to-sleep dept.

Security 354

mask.of.sanity writes "The noose is tightening on hacker group LulzSec, according to a coordinated group of like-minded users, some from LulzSec-Exposed that claim to have uncovered the identity of LulzSec members and supplied them to the FBI. An arrest Monday of a UK teenager was rumoured to be former hacker scene member Ryan Clearly, and the trackers, which includes a former FBI agent, say this arrest is the first of many. They refused to disclose the identities of LulzSec chief, saying it would cause the members to burn the evidence of attacks and scatter."

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lol (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36526826)

The [propaganda] noose is tightening around LulzSec?

Logic disconnect... (2)

Eggplant62 (120514) | more than 3 years ago | (#36526838)

But publishing a news story about the arrests isn't going to cause the members to destroy evidence and scatter? Hahahahahahahahahahahaha.... Fuck.

Re:Logic disconnect... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36526906)

We are aware of all of this, don't worry. We can protect ourselves for the lulz as well..

Re:Logic disconnect... (5, Interesting)

Marc Madness (2205586) | more than 3 years ago | (#36526914)

Maybe that's the intention. By putting out a press release stating that arrests are imminent, maybe they are hoping that LulzSec will destroy their own infrastructure and go into hiding, thus eliminating them as a threat. It's true doublethink; it can mean that they have no leads whatsoever, or that they do.

Re:Logic disconnect... (-1, Troll)

Computershack (1143409) | more than 3 years ago | (#36526962)

And the best thing is that with most of Lulzsec being teenage kids, they won't have a fucking clue what to do - whether to fold or fight. I wonder how many of these fags think that mommy and daddy will be able to protect them.

Re:Logic disconnect... (2)

cgeys (2240696) | more than 3 years ago | (#36526998)

Nice way to ruin your life.

Ryan, described as a loner who ‘lives his life online’, faces the prospect of extradition to the U.S. where he could face 60 years behind bars for allegedly hacking into the CIA and Senate websites.

The funny thing is, soon everyone will forget about the whole thing, but he gets to spend his life in the prison. For a few "lulz".

Re:Logic disconnect... (4, Insightful)

biodata (1981610) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527050)

if he's ever charged with anything

Re:Logic disconnect... (2)

singhulariti (1963000) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527056)

Something tells me he might end up being hired by the FBI after a few years

Re:Logic disconnect... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36527160)

Yeah, I hear they really need someone with 1337 "i can run an irc server" skillz.

Re:Logic disconnect... (2, Interesting)

smelch (1988698) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527280)

Something tells me you underestimate true hacking talent, and the value of not being a dumbfuck attention whore. Seriously, what makes you think this guy is a more talented hacker than any of the people who actually write viruses, malware, develop jailbreaks, reveal encryption keys in hardware etc.? The only thing that got this guy attention was sticking his e-peen where it didn't belong and waving it about in people's faces.

I don't think the FBI needs more people to hunt out low-hanging fruit. Not to mention it's hard to run a sensitive investigation with some jackwad flopping his dick about. "You guys need any SQL injection writers?" ::thrust thrust thrust:: "I know how to make ASCII art too, and run IRC servers!" ::thrust thrust thrust:: "Somebody start DDoSing the" ::thrust:: "mafia!"

Re:Logic disconnect... (2)

MBGMorden (803437) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527320)

The Frank Abagnale situation has happened precious few times. It's not typically a recruitment method. Most likely, if he's convicted, "Federal pound-me-in-the-ass" prison is what awaits, not cushy employment with the FBI.

Re:Logic disconnect... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36527638)

For what? He didn't break into HBGary (which probably had some real hacking merits), just organised coordinated loic attacks on a few sites.

Re:Logic disconnect... (3, Insightful)

sosume (680416) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527250)

How can someone who has never entered the US be convicted to 60 years for breaking US laws??

Re:Logic disconnect... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36527292)

Because UK wuvs US.

Re:Logic disconnect... (1)

RazzleFrog (537054) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527626)

Entered physically perhaps but he accessed US server allegedly. Of course, he's lucky they don't just call him an "enemy combatant" and send him to Guantanamo.

Re:Logic disconnect... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36527632)

international treaties..you thought international commerce laws were just for trade? har har, jokes on you/us

Re:Logic disconnect... (1)

kevinNCSU (1531307) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527736)

The same way if someone in North Dakota fires an arrow up into the air and it lands in the chest of a little Canadian boy on the other side of the border the American who fired the arrow can be extradited and tried for breaking the Canadian laws regarding murder because the countries have extradition treaties. How is this at all confusing? Just because someone breaks the law online doesn't mean the legal system can't possibly figure things out because your in a different country AND online.

Re:Logic disconnect... (1)

ZeRu (1486391) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527326)

To describe it differently, authorities are now having a "lulz".

i dont know whether youre a moron or not (0)

unity100 (970058) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527030)

i still have put thought into how the hell you might have concluded 'with most of Lulzsec being teenage kids' ...

in the end, i decided that you are a moron, else you wouldnt conclude the below without having enough information - which anyone cant have.

Re:i dont know whether youre a moron or not (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36527254)

Just about all the people on LulzSec are posting on Flickr, Twitter, MySpace, Facebook, and 4chan... Many of them have posted videos of themselves, and there are a lot of "leaked" videos where they did video conferences with each other regularly.. Make no mistake, the majority of them are teenagers..

Remember when they hacked PBS to post the news story about Tupac being alive and well in Australia? There's a video of one of the LulzSec guys bragging about what they've done and he's got a Tupac poster on his wall right behind him... Another video of the same kid and he is trying to rap like tupac (see the LulzBoat rap). Voice matches, face matches, hobby matches.. It's not so hard to track these guys down.

Re:i dont know whether youre a moron or not (1)

bhcompy (1877290) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527350)

Basic profiling I'd say. Look at what they're doing and ask yourself who would do that kind of thing most often? A 40 year old IT security expert? A pissed off old man? Or a teenager/young adult? Maybe you missed the AOL script kiddy days, because it was essentially the same situation(with much much lower stakes).

Re:i dont know whether youre a moron or not (1)

txmcse (937355) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527672)

conclude... assume... what difference does it make? /. has been a collective of overly opinionated morons for decades. As this is a well known fact, and yet you write a post a comment like that (not even as AC) proves that you fall into the same category as the rest of us. As for information that anyone can't have... we know ryan's age... and I think if you wait a moment, there is a pretty good chance we'll find out about a few more. time will tell, and you, my moronic little sister, will know the truth.

Re:Logic disconnect... (1)

telekon (185072) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527352)

Infrastructure? LOL.

Re:Logic disconnect... (1)

poetmatt (793785) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527570)

this is just another "war on something". They are about as close to lulzsec as imagination is to reality.

Re:Logic disconnect... (1)

ArsenneLupin (766289) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527252)

That's what we poker player know by the technical term "bluff". And methinks, you just called it... Congrats!

Re:Logic disconnect... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36527430)

On the bright side, then they won't have to go through the trouble of actually exposing the real members.
I'm sure they'll arrest someone, though, to avoid losing face. Oh wait, they already did arrest someone. Problem solved!

Burn the evidence of attacks and scatter (4, Funny)

RivenAleem (1590553) | more than 3 years ago | (#36526846)

Do it, do it now, they are on to you. No really, it's not just what they want you to think, they really mean it, your time is up, go to ground and never resurface again. Someone within your own organisation has outed you to the Feds, you can't trust any of them, scatter and break all contact with all your members, as any one of them could be the informant. They will get you if you remain organised.

Re:Burn the evidence of attacks and scatter (0)

RivenAleem (1590553) | more than 3 years ago | (#36526956)

Flamebait? Seriously? *sigh*

Re:Burn the evidence of attacks and scatter (0)

funnydot (2295790) | more than 3 years ago | (#36526980)

Yep, thats how slashdot mod system works...
Thats why I made a decision about half year ago to post strictly Goatse links, and boy had I had a lot of fun since then.
And no frustration.

Re:Burn the evidence of attacks and scatter (-1, Troll)

TrisexualPuppy (976893) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527048)

Same. [goatse.fr]

Re:Burn the evidence of attacks and scatter (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36527142)

WARNING: Goatse link in parent, please mod down.

Re:Burn the evidence of attacks and scatter (1, Insightful)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527204)

What, you clicked on it despite the fact that it says "[goatse.fr]" right there next to the link?

Re:Burn the evidence of attacks and scatter (-1, Troll)

ArsenneLupin (766289) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527312)

Fixed that for you [ragingfist.net]

(Indeed .fr is military slang for "doesn't last long")

Re:Burn the evidence of attacks and scatter (1)

aaaaaaargh! (1150173) | more than 3 years ago | (#36526990)

LOL

+1 funny

Huh? (5, Insightful)

Afforess (1310263) | more than 3 years ago | (#36526856)

Really, the FBI isn't afraid that capturing one alleged member of LulzSec won't cause the other members to bolt and hide the evidence, but disclosing the names will?

It's days like these I think elementary logic classes should be manditory.

Re:Huh? (1)

Registered Coward v2 (447531) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527084)

Really, the FBI isn't afraid that capturing one alleged member of LulzSec won't cause the other members to bolt and hide the evidence, but disclosing the names will?

It might, but in they may see themselves, at least individually, as well hidden and smarter than the FBI and others. Besides, they want attention, and what better way to get it than taunt authorities

Sure, they could hide evidence but, in the US at least, hiding evidence could be construed as obstructing justice, which could land them in jail even if they committed no actual crimes. In some ways, that makes it easier for the government since all they basically need to show is they acted to influence the investigation and directed the hiding of the evidence; even if they are not the target of the investigation. it's a pretty broad set of powers, and can be used to "persuade" people to provide information.

Re:Huh? (0)

arth1 (260657) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527098)

I'm wondering when did FBI get jurisdiction in the UK? Can we blame John Major or Puppet Blair for this one?

And if the FBI didn't pull the strings here, why, they need to slap Ryan Clearly with an ASBO so he won't do it again.

Re:Huh? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36527310)

Well first off they will have to hide the evidence because destroying evidence is illegal at least in the US and I would assume in any modern country.

Second, exposing the news they found a member of LulzSec can work to the advantage of the FBI. First, if the FBI is wrong this can make LulzSec come out and brag about not being found thus exposing themselves once again. This can leave more of a trail for the FBI to follow if the current trails went cold.

Now if they do indeed have a member of LulzSec this could force the other members to go into hiding. The advantage here is that if the FBI has a good indication of who the other members are they can watch the activities of the other suspected members. If all of a sudden their normal activities change then you know something is up with them and you allocate resources to those individuals. If they decide to bolt from their respective country then the FBI / State Department can issue an alert to have them picked up once they try coming back. Of course we have a lot of legal entanglements here but its an option.

The other advantage is the amount of loyalty these members have to each other. If one them gets caught, what keeps another member from going to the FBI and making a deal to expose the others while protecting themselves?

Re:Huh? (1, Funny)

SCHecklerX (229973) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527726)

It's days like these I think elementary logic classes should be manditory.

Elementary spelling classes, too.

FBI press release (-1)

funnydot (2295790) | more than 3 years ago | (#36526858)

Here: LulzSec cracking [tinyurl.com]

Re:FBI press release (0)

RivenAleem (1590553) | more than 3 years ago | (#36526902)

Suspected Goatse Link

Another Hacker Group (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36526864)

There's a group of Japanese hackers who've been able to shut down businesses, infect users with rootkits and remotely remove functionality from consumer electronics.

They call themselves SONY or something...

Re:Another Hacker Group (2)

poetmatt (793785) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527594)

sony? Other than the japanese part, don't you mean microsoft/EA/Intel?

Not the brightest (1)

Xest (935314) | more than 3 years ago | (#36526876)

"They refused to disclose the identities of LulzSec chief, saying it would cause the members to burn the evidence of attacks and scatter.""

Yes, because announcing you know his identity on the internet wont do that anyway will it?

Obviously not the sharpest tool in the box, such a comment doesn't instill much confidence that they have in fact got the right people.

Let's be honest, the LulzSec people will know if they've let their identity loose to anyone or not, if they have they'll already be watching their backs, if they haven't, then they'll know they have nothing to worry about. Doing what they're doing, attacking the targets they are means you're bound to recognise that keeping evidence around in the first place would be foolish.

Re:Not the brightest (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36526948)

i kinda wonder how easy it would be to get all the evidence. personally if i was lulzsec i wouldn't keep much evidence at all. once you post it on the internet, no need to keep it.
second, being in lulzsec, i suspect you know a little bit about security and how to make it fail/work.
wouldn't most of their evidence be pretty well secured?

Re:Not the brightest (3, Insightful)

mr_gorkajuice (1347383) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527068)

Are you suggesting that these people are incapable of mistakes, and cannot ever possibly be outsmarted by feds?
I believe you're vastly overestimating these guys, and similarly underestimating authorities.

Re:Not the brightest (4, Insightful)

Xest (935314) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527334)

I'm suggesting that when you've been thinking about such things long enough there's very little room to make mistakes, and that if you have, you'll tend to know about it. The hacker mindset is one of meticulous attention to detail and obsessive thought about a subject on their mind, you can guarantee that particularly when paranoid about being caught which is going to be more the case with such announcements as this that the scope for mistakes will be so small, and the scope for mistakes that can't be cleaned up after the fact and before discovery is even smaller.

I'm not saying they couldn't be outsmarted by the feds, simply that they wont be outsmarted by someone foolish enough to post on the internet "We know the leader's identity", before he's actually been brought to justice. I also suspect that to actually catch them they're likely to somewhat cheat, and throw due process out the window- they may have a rough idea who is involved but not have the evidence to legitimately question them or seize their kit, so they'll make up some false charge to seize it and build up evidence upon that anyway. They may not even have a case then but the authorities including the judiciary seem quite competent at ruling against people even when the evidence is unacceptably weak in the first place.

They probably will get them some way or another, but it may not be through a legitimate thoroughly proper and clean legal process. Sure many such hackers have been caught in the end, but how many haven't over the years? How many spammers go untouched, how many criminal hackers do the authorities not even know the rought whereabouts of? how many DDOS attacks against major corporations even before anonymous started doing them went unpunished? you only have to look at the rather famous case of Al Capone, where physical evidence should theoretically have been much easier to come by and see that they had to do him on tax evasion in the end to see that sometimes, achieving proper justice against criminals can be quite the impossible task. The result then is either failure to deal with them at all, or a bending of the law.

I think more realistically you're underestimating the ability of smart criminals, particularly in the digital world to evade justice. For all the feel good stories about "criminal X has been caught" hammered into us on the news, and newspapers, there's plenty more who are not. It's perfectly possible they will fall into this category, and it seems blurting out to the world that you know the identities of these people even if you don't announce said identity is only going to make life that much harder for the authorities who may truly find any potential evidence has already been burnt and shredded already whether in the physical or digital sense. A smart investigation would simply not announce knowledge of the identity of the target until they were already in custody, anything else is just foolish penis waving.

Shouldn't have messed with EvE (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36526878)

They've been wardec'd...

Re:Shouldn't have messed with EvE (1)

bhcompy (1877290) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527382)

And they live in highsec. Should have moved to nullsec, aka Somalia. Wardec ain't going to hurt there

Very Unfortunate. (4, Insightful)

crow_t_robot (528562) | more than 3 years ago | (#36526892)

This is unfortunate considering what lulzsec is currently doing for the IT job market. These attacks are getting incompetent people fired and making companies go out and look for competent people to hire in their place. Also, it is forcing them to actually invest money in their IT infrastructure instead of just slapping some servers together and letting some clowns straight out of a degree mill run them. People need to realize that this is a net good thing because if a 19 year old with no formal education is ripping servers owned by multi-billion dollar international corporations then the Chinese have already been there. A company would not even know about the Chinese intrusion much less publicize it once they found out so what lulzsec is doing is shining the light on how poorly these companies that hold your data are run.

Re:Very Unfortunate. (3, Insightful)

wintercolby (1117427) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527058)

While it is good for the IT industry as a whole, as far as investment in infrastructure and qualified administrators, it is also bad for Internet freedom. The less secure people feel on the Internet, the more we will lose anonymizing proxies and the more public everything we do on the Internet will be. Today we have the "sexting representative", tomorrow it will be a senator that looks at free porn on his home computer. The extreme cases convince us that we need to lose some privacy, and then government passes laws that are harsher and harsher, and relaxes warrant requirements, because no one loses elections for being strong against "crime".

Re:Very Unfortunate. (4, Insightful)

Dhalka226 (559740) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527108)

I understand what you're saying, and to some degree I agree: The state of security on Internet-facing web properties is staggeringly bad, and the fact that companies who do an incompetent job protecting their users are getting publicly called out is, in its own way, a good thing.

Still, there are right ways and wrong ways to do things and LulzSec is clearly on the wrong side of the line. This is particularly true when you read their own postings about how they do it "for the lulz." "You wouldn't know we hacked people if we weren't arrogant shitheads about it!" was nothing more than a post-event attempt at rationalization. And their nonsense with hacking into porn sites and trying to publicly shame people who visit them made me want to strangle them with my own hands.

Some good can come of all this, and I hope it does. But yes, I also hope these people are caught and punished. There are a lot of horrible things people can do to one another that might, in some way, lead to good conclusions, but that does not mean that they should be done. Robbing your neighbor to prod them into locking their doors at night may end up with a good outcome, but I should still go to prison for it. The same applies here.

Once they have done their time and paid their debts, I'm sure they can make quite a handy little salary doing these same damn things the right way.

Re:Very Unfortunate. (1)

ArsenneLupin (766289) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527366)

And their nonsense with hacking into porn sites and trying to publicly shame people who visit them made me want to strangle them with my own hands.

Keep your energy for your chicken, that feels much better...

Re:Very Unfortunate. (4, Funny)

crow_t_robot (528562) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527486)

And their nonsense with hacking into porn sites and trying to publicly shame people who visit them made me want to strangle them with my own hands.

Anyone who pays for porn on the internet should be shamed. Seriously.

Re:Very Unfortunate. (0)

gaspyy (514539) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527130)

The broken window fallacy is old and tired. The misery they caused to companies and users alike benefits no one.

Re:Very Unfortunate. (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36527214)

This isn't the broken window fallacy. Nobody is trying to boost the economy by breaking perfectly good things.

They are showing the weakness in the existing system, exposing people who can't do their jobs, and generally forcing everyone to up their game.

It's a completely different situation.

Re:Very Unfortunate. (2)

MBGMorden (803437) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527432)

This isn't the broken window fallacy. Nobody is trying to boost the economy by breaking perfectly good things.

Rubbish. The systems they are targeting are working fine. They are breaking perfectly working things, thus demonstrating that they are BREAKABLE. That's irrelevant. In the broken window fallacy the windows are breakable too. That doesn't mean that it's a good thing to break them and then smugly suggest that the shop owner replace them with steel plates for extra security.

Not to mention that this ass-clowns have not even bothered to try and put for that tired old "we're just trying to demonstrate security holes" excuse. Their whole motto is that they're doing it for the "lulz".

Re:Very Unfortunate. (3, Interesting)

poetmatt (793785) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527716)

"Working" and "set up properly" are entirely different.

They aren't breaking into complex shit, they're breaking into the equivalent of the old adage: "leaving the barn door wide open." If you are vulnerable to a SQL injection, whose fault is it that you set up your website that way? You're acting like it was working perfectly fine. It wasn't. It was left with a clearly bad process, almost guaranteed to have been done either a: as a cost cutting measure or b: by incompetent/underqualified people. Et cetera.

They have also very explicitly said whenever they release things that people should be more secure. Clearly you have a reading comprehension issue.

Re:Very Unfortunate. (1)

phreakv6 (760152) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527706)

this is stupid. you don't go picking locks to make your neighbor get better locks

Re:Very Unfortunate. (1)

Exitar (809068) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527708)

This isn't the broken window fallacy. Nobody is trying to boost the economy by breaking perfectly good things.

They are showing the weakness in the existing system, exposing people who can't do their jobs, and generally forcing everyone to up their game.

It's a completely different situation.

Are you sure that a group defining itself "the world's leaders in high-quality entertainment at your expense" is working for a better world?

Re:Very Unfortunate. (2)

crow_t_robot (528562) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527222)

Actually, it isn't. The government does this every day with consumer automobiles. If they don't pass safety standards, the company is told to go back and fix it. This is the same thing except the CONSUMER is telling the company to go fix their shit and stop being so fucking lazy.

Re:Very Unfortunate. (1)

phatphoton (2099888) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527458)

'Magine that! Consumers demanding something instead of whining to the government about it...I guess there is still hope.

Re:Very Unfortunate. (2)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527300)

Except that this isn't the broken window fallacy. IT people aren't paying lulzsec to go around poking holes in people's security in order to increase IT jobs. It's more the "tornado that ripped through town and is now proving good for the construction industry" scenario. Stop repeating what you think you know like a parrot, and sit and think for a while.

Re:Very Unfortunate. (1)

woolpert (1442969) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527704)

You just made the broken window fallacy yourself!

The fallacy isn't that a person (instead of a force of nature) performed the damage, but rather that money is diverted into replacing perfectly functional things.

A tornado is never good for the economy, for while it may divert money towards the construction industry it has a net negative impact on total wealth.

Re:Very Unfortunate. (1)

Borland (123542) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527246)

Now if only they could have highlighted incompetent security with courage and integrity. Instead, I consider the good outcomes of their actions a beneficial side-effect of criminal actions. And not the kind of Robin Hood or Jean Val Jean criminal...more the Joker dickhead criminal that few will mourn.

Re:Very Unfortunate. (1)

MareLooke (1003332) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527342)

Why so serious?

China v. Google (1)

Borland (123542) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527270)

Yes Virginia, the companies generally know when they've been compromised. Really, it's only lack of integrity when you don't hear about it on the news.

Re:Very Unfortunate. (1)

Dishwasha (125561) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527372)

This is unfortunate considering what lulzsec is currently doing for the [door and lock] job market. These attacks are getting incompetent [locksmiths] fired and making companies go out and look for competent [locksmiths] to hire in their place. Also, it is forcing them to actually invest money in their [door and key] infrastructure instead of just slapping some [keyholes] together and letting some clowns straight out of a [high school] mill [install] them. People need to realize that this is a net good thing because if a 19 year old with no formal education is ripping [doors] owned by multi-billion dollar international corporations then the [hobos] have already been there. A company would not even know about the [hobo's] intrusion much less publicize it once they found out so what lulzsec is doing is shining the light on how poorly these companies that hold your data are run.

Re:Very Unfortunate. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36527374)

This is unfortunate considering what lulzsec is currently doing for the IT job market. These attacks are getting incompetent people fired and making companies go out and look for competent people to hire in their place. Also, it is forcing them to actually invest money in their IT infrastructure instead of just slapping some servers together and letting some clowns straight out of a degree mill run them. People need to realize that this is a net good thing because if a 19 year old with no formal education is ripping servers owned by multi-billion dollar international corporations then the Chinese have already been there. A company would not even know about the Chinese intrusion much less publicize it once they found out so what lulzsec is doing is shining the light on how poorly these companies that hold your data are run.

Sorry Crow_T_Robot but your argument is wrong. What are they doing for the job market exactly??? Obviously you have no idea that security starts at the executive level...so are they suddently having a firesale on executive spots now? Your data to support this would be where?

I see the same ignorant "they are helping people realize security is weak" call...all from the same juvenile kids who have never spent any time in the real world or within business. If you HONESTLY think companies are clearing out their security teams and suddenly it's UTOPIA with job hiring within IT and security, you're seriously mistaken. Do you think Lulsec's recent work (not the alleged Anon incidents) is honestly causing real pain as in...sustained loss of critical revenue generating business process for their targets? Infragard, cia.gov? Seriously?? No, not in most cases. Stop with the speculation that they are security martyrs. Just because someone says they have a crap ton of juicy data to release "soon" doesn't mean they are exposing anything that would lead to a critical loss for an organization. The FBI does more damage with its seizure process!!!! Don't kid yourself that the only thing they are generating is PRESS. Taking websites down that aren't part of a businesses core revenue flow is not going to get people replaced. And can we please stop with "what they are doing is OK because hackers have already been there and would never have told you!" argument. That's tired, old and ridiculous. It's like saying "Oh its OK for me to break into your house ma'am, I'm quite sure at some point someone already did so I did it and told you about it, and that makes it right!".

The only thing these clowns are doing are inciting their followers to exploit end users, thus collateral damage...and unnecessary/unethical. They are young, immature and stupid...case closed. Cliche...they are on the right track with the spirit of their idea, but it's just too bogged down in poorly managed and poorly executed delivery of their idea..way off track. Stop defending them.

Re:Very Unfortunate. (1)

phreakv6 (760152) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527656)

why cry foul if the govt. resorts to the same tactics? (say if they planned an attack that helped pass a bill)

Re:Very Unfortunate. (1)

poetmatt (793785) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527660)

Absolutely. Even Penny arcade agrees [penny-arcade.com]
from the article on PA:

Like the electronic smash and grab at Sony, I think the endgame here is better security at the places we trust with our data. It’s been an education for me, to be sure: custom passwords everywhere, now, 2-step where available, and when I need a new password I let my daughter go fucking crazy nuts on the keyboard. And then I say who’s my little hash function? Who is it? She knows who.

Focusing on harming lulzsec is really ignoring that people are really fucking stupid with passwords. Why is government so pissed off? Because they are the worst offenders outside of specific very technical groups.

Re:Very Unfortunate. (1)

Riceballsan (816702) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527724)

Unfortunately few companies will see it that way, the more targets lulz succeeds at attacking, the more likely companies will view them as an unforeseeable and unstoppable act of god rather then a sign their security is garbage. History has shown that the response to a hacker is almost never, oh gosh our security is bad, and more often OMG this criminal must be stopped, push better laws to monitor who's online, catch these criminals and make sure they all get life sentences, and hey while we're at it, the freedoms we've taken away to deal with this problem, will also come in handy to catch those pesky pirates.

lulzz (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36526898)

1 you all are so uninformed lol what gives the first clue he really is lulzsec.
  2 after seeing this they are either gonna go harder or move the op.
  media is the reason y this is so big lol thousands have claimed to be anon and lulz the feds will arrest anyone they think is them with minor to no evidence

Yeah, so close... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36526974)

...to the arrest of some random scapegoats for crimes they have not committed.

My ass (0)

unity100 (970058) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527010)

just say that 'we are not able to get to the real people in russia, china, and arresting pimpleface kids to save face'.

disgusting.

Re:My ass (1)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527330)

Hey at least they're not shooting random brazilians in the head on the tube now. Yet.

PR madness, Something strange going on (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36527022)

What is all this media attention on LulzSec, it is kinda amusing. The character assassination of Ryan Clearly in the UK news is crazy. They have interviewed people in his road, called him a shut in and other things, I think i heard terrorist today as well. I have even had 2 family memebers call me up to disscuss lulzSec (my 60 year old mother), this whole story is dominating the news WHY? I have not seen rapists get this kind of media attention and character assassination. The fun thing is, Ryans Role is pretty clear, he was the IRC server host. That's it, so by extension the FBI and UK believe he is now part of Lulzsec. Well Ryan provided a medium for anyone to chat on his IRC server, Its like saying because Google link to the lulzsec page they too are in league with them. Just because someone supply's a medium and someone abuses it, it is not the fault of that person.

This is a massive PR thing and I wonder if LulzSec is government funded. Is it not strange that other hacking groups have been on the slow raise, now a Super hacking group has appeared to create waves just as the government wants to lock down the internet, LulzSec is now running operations with AnonOps maybe this is just one big government honey pot to pull the last reminding old school hackers and take them out in one go while also locking down the internet because of the evil goldstein sorry I mean LulzSec and their abuse of power.

tl:dr Ryan Clearly = IRC host and ScapeGoat, LulzSec could be the new goldstein (might be government placed to get access to other hacking groups), Governments are going to win whatever the outcome, Internet gets locked down and OR the hackers go to jail.

SIDE NOTE (YES I AM SHOUTING)
WHY ARE GOVERNMENT SYSTEMS WITH SENSITIVE DATA EVEN ON THE INTERNET? STOP USING THE PUBLIC NETWORK THAT WAS DESIGNED FOR SHARING INFORMATION AND ATTEMPT TO LIMIT IT TO CREATE YOUR OWN INTERNET> SERIOUSLY GET A PRIVATE NETWORK AND AMERICA STOP TRYING TO CONTROL IT.

How (1)

unity100 (970058) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527078)

"Governments are going to win whatever the outcome" - how will that happen with the root of the hacking scene now being in russia.

Unfortunate? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36527038)

So you mean I should lock the door on my house, because I'm incompetent if I want a community where I actually can keep it open?

Saying we need security people in every company to close down all that's possible to close down, is saying we want a structure where we need to safeguard everything. That's a bit strange, since we want the Internet to be open.

LulzSec claims that they do what they do because they want to harm to people trying to close down net. Well, the result of what LulzSec do is that we close our doors. Nice logic.

LulzSec's downfall is that clearly it is NOT anon (4, Interesting)

Borland (123542) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527052)

It's been obvious from the beginning that Lulzsec might be fickle in their targeting like anons, but that they are a coordinated group. That lends them a bit more power, but also means that despite their bravado they are connected. And since they're not thinking like terrorists, I doubt they have formed "cells" like any organization which doesn't want to fall quickly to a coordinated assault.

Maybe I don't give them enough credit and the IRC operator was careful to shield everyone and knows no one by name. But despite the publicity, and the fact that they have more skill than I, somehow I doubt they are true black hat masters. Braggarts are the most likely criminals to land in jail.

burn the evidence? (1)

smileynerd (1607657) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527054)

They make it sound like they keep hard copies of all of the hacks

Re:burn the evidence? (1)

RazzleFrog (537054) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527654)

Well when I say that I am "burning the midnight oil" I am not literally burning oil anymore but the metaphor still works.

Ryan ClearLy? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36527094)

Ok CmdrTaco, I let the "SpiderDASHman" error pass, but... CLEARLY?! with an L!?

I call bullshit... until (1)

toxickitty (1758282) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527122)

I call bullshit until I see some actual devolpments. From the article: "LulzSec, in typical style, has laughed off the effort; and said the exposed details were pulled from low-level chat rooms used to recruit sub-crews, or "grunts". LulzSec operators remain free and anonymous, the group said, operating from "cells" in the UK. One tracker in contact with SC Australia refused to provide the names of the suspected LulzSec crew, fearing the group would scatter and "burn the evidence"."

Also... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36527136)

In a shocking turn of events the Chinese Communist Party has just discovered that the leader of LulSec is none other than the renowned international terrorist the Dalai Lama. The Chinese government will be seeking his extradition to China to answer for his heinous crimes.

The majority of Slashdot readers are expected to cheer this victory for justice against the evils of hackerism.

Re:Also... (2)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527412)

What is it with Americans, Chinese, and the fucking Dalai Lama. It's like you only have room for a single thing in your heads. Get the fuck over it, Tibet was 50 years ago. Otherwise you have a shitload of occupied land you should be giving back to Mexico, not to mention a few other countries having "the shit freed out of them" by American occupation at present. To the victor the spoils, and it ends there. Otherwise you turn into a fucking arab and 1000 years from now you're still arguing about shit that is no longer relevant.

Oh, really? (1)

HikingStick (878216) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527178)

They refused to disclose the identities of LulzSec chief, saying it would cause the members to burn the evidence of attacks and scatter.

As if the news coverage hasn't been enough to start the burning and scattering?

More misinformation. (5, Informative)

rhadamanthus (200665) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527232)

Ryan Clearly housed a lulz IRC chatroom. He has nothing to do with lulzsec.

Re:More misinformation. (1)

guruevi (827432) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527572)

What's important is what a judge/jury will hear and think. They don't understand the difference and even saying "IRC is an anonymous chat system" will mean you're a hacker terrorist that needs to be locked up.

Thanks to the sensationalist media and government even the First Amendment rights have been all but relegated to the academia. Guilt by association is the norm now.

Re:More misinformation. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36527728)

Chat logs.

True /. fashion (1)

MisterJohnny (2029510) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527272)

"The noose is tightening around lulzsec. Trust me, I have sources." said a random blogger. In true slashdot fashion, no fact checking was done before the editors approved this story.

Re:True /. fashion (1)

Joe U (443617) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527470)

Yeah, my BS detector went to 11 on this story.

Wait a sec, Slashdot has editors? Is this new? I've been here a while and I don't remember editors.

disclose (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36527322)

or they could just give us their names and addresses so we can f'ing destroy them. then nobody will do it again. it is this hide and seek bullshit that makes people continue to do this crap.

Pressure (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36527384)

The FBI/CIA are trying to "put pressure" on them. From my knowledge of cheap detective and spy novels I'd say that you do that whenever you have no clue and want your opponent to make some moves that give you more data. Likely, the lulz boat underestimates the SIGINT capabilities of their adversaries, though. We'll see soon enough how much these agencies are willing to reveal about these capabilities -- probably more than they should, hehehe...

Hackers 4.0 (1)

Tasha26 (1613349) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527386)

If they turned that into a movie, I'd totally watch it... P.s. If you're wondering where I got the 4.0 from, here's my list: Hackers (1995), Hackers 2 - Operation Takedown (2000), Hackers 3 - Antitrust (2001).

low hanging fruit (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36527444)

lulzsec are just going after low hanging fruit; they aren't using any script kitties or DNS attacks anyone else who actually reads a book and is interested in who the internet actually works. I am shock at the amount of people( a lot of who work in IT departments) who believe that you just connect two servers with a wire, then do that 100 more time as; they believe that's the internet.
I got my job just by correct defining DNS; they thought I was a genius, since at 20 I had no degree or certs.

Forewarning. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36527480)

"...They refused to disclose the identities of LulzSec chief, saying it would cause the members to burn the evidence of attacks and scatter."

If LulzSec even remotely suspected that the Feds were that close to them, the burning of the evidence has already happened.

Not Just Ryan (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36527512)

Look, it isn't just Ryan. LSE posted kayla's identity as well. You may remember kayla from the HBGary anon hack.

Also: these guys aren't 16-year-old girls. They are IT professionals. Some of these hacks may have been possible because of insider information. That makes the hacks less impressive, but possibly more effective.

Something bad will come of all of this, like digital fingerprints attached to hardware and computer ownership registries like they have with firearms.

If you're going to hack, and want the recognition for your skilz, you can make a lot more money being a security consultant, effect a lot more positive change, and still get the lulz out of making in-house people look bad; and you can probably get the recognition at conferences and by blogging or writing books about your exploits.

You'll get fame, fortune, and amusement. All for doing what you are doing destructively, constructively. Otherwise you are just as evil as the organizations whose incompetency you are attempting to expose.

Authorities definitely closing in on LulzSec (2)

David Gerard (12369) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527546)

DRAMATICA, Wackyleeks, Wednesday (textfiles.com) — The noose is tightening on LulzSec, oh yes it is, with a red-handed capture nearly almost imminent, said FBI Media Liaison today, and don't you worry about that.

The drug-running terrorist paedophile probably-Chinese-government members of LulzSec have used their horrifying and "l33t" "Internet Relay Chat" skills (or "sk1llz0r," as "hackers" call them) to break into some of the most complicatedly protected computery gadget devices on the Inter-web-thing, particularly the ones running Microsoft Windows. Just like your computer does!!

"Fortunately," fed an off-the-record FBI source, "we have tracked down these dastardly fiends to their festering basement lairs, where they sit all day exchanging BitCoins via their 'four-channel' systems. Our agents are poised right now to swoop, swoop! upon these avatars of delinquency! Multiple US agencies are involved. They might be right outside!"

Authorities worry the "hackers" will get wind of the raids and scatter and burn the evidence. Repeat, the authorities don't want the group to scatter and burn the evidence. Just so that's clear with everyone.

LulzSec was formed by a group of Scientologists interested in Guy Fawkes. The group is named after "lulls," which is when the four-channel system goes quiet, and "sex," the availability of which would cause the group's immediate collapse.

Picture: Practice safe computing! [newstechnica.com]

LulzSec vs LulzSec Exposed (1)

tverbeek (457094) | more than 3 years ago | (#36527556)

I think I liked Sharks vs. Jets better. Better names.

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