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Landmark Steps Forward For Australia's NBN

timothy posted more than 3 years ago | from the guaranteed-pure-and-family-friendly dept.

Australia 66

angry tapir writes "After two years of protracted negotiations Telstra, the Australian Federal Government and the NBN Co have come to definitive agreements on the structural separation of Telstra and the use of its network assets in Australia's 1Gbps National Broadband Network (NBN). Australia's second largest telco, Optus, has also reached an $800m agreement with the NBN Co for the migration of its hybrid coaxial cable (HFC) customers to the fibre-optic-based NBN."

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66 comments

Not 1Gbps (2)

spyder-implee (864295) | more than 3 years ago | (#36551782)

100Mbps It's just capable of 1Gbps for later upgrade.

Re:Not 1Gbps (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36551848)

No, if you want to pay extra and depending on capacity in your area you can ask for 1Gbs.

Where there's enough of the GPON to supply a particular site with 1Gbps you can have it (but it obviously costs extra)

Re:Not 1Gbps (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36551996)

Actually it costs extra to even get 100Mbps, 1Gbps is deifnitely NOT available on household plans and there are no plans for it to be available, their were some garbage stories in some media late last year where they took quotes out of context due to the usual BS of technology writers that don't have a clue about what they are writing about.

Re:Not 1Gbps (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36552034)

1Gbps is deifnitely NOT available on household plans

Where did he say it wasn't available for household plans but it was for business? I thought he said

100Mbps It's just capable of 1Gbps for later upgrade.

Which sounds a lot to me like he's asserting that 1Gbps isn't available anywhere on the NBN.

Re:Not 1Gbps (1)

davester666 (731373) | more than 3 years ago | (#36551866)

It's still dialup between Australia and the rest of the world...

Re:Not 1Gbps (1)

martin-boundary (547041) | more than 3 years ago | (#36552250)

Or dial-down for those who live in Oz...

Re:Not 1Gbps (1)

Cimexus (1355033) | more than 3 years ago | (#36552848)

Please don't trot out this old myth again. This used to be the case, like, ten years ago, but not these days.

The main (largest design capacity) undersea cables out of Australia - SXC, AJC and PPC1 - are not operating anywhere near their maximum capacity. Just because your particular ISP may be too cheap to fork out money to buy more capacity ~on~ these cables does not mean that the capacity isn't there. Some ISPs do buy sufficient international capacity - and it shows in their performance benchmarks.

On top of this there are several new cables currently under construction, in anticipation of the NBN starting to increase international traffic within the next 5-10 years.

Re:Not 1Gbps (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36551880)

My guess it will be that outside the Capital Cities it will be 100Mbps shared between all connections... which will probably end up being slower that the current system of Telstra enabling an ADSL2+ Exchange with an 8MBps backhaul, and then selling dozens of 20Mbps connections to the houses connected to it.

Also... thousands of "remote" users currently on ADSL or ADSL2+ will be relegated to NBN Wireless

AND on top of that... they are going to start Filtering Our Internet AFTER the plan to start Filtering Our Internet was Scapped

Maybe they will make up for all this junk by giving us an R18+ Rating on Games.... that would TOTALLY be worth it...

I can only hope Red Nuts Gillard gets voted out at the next election, and the new government brings some common sense to the table.... only 3 years to wait on that... maybe K-Rudd can make a come back sooner

Re:Not 1Gbps (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36551904)

they are going to start Filtering Our Internet AFTER the plan to start Filtering Our Internet was Scapped

So what you're saying is that you're a pedophile. Because the sites that are being censored are primarily child abuse sites. So, given that you object to that, you must be a pedophile.

Re:Not 1Gbps (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36552058)

Just because the parent poster objects to filtering does not mean he condones paedophilia or child abuse. Filtering will increase latency and incur additional expense. Whilst it will stop normal people from accessing paedophilic and child abuse material, it is not the normal people who are looking for this sort of stuff. It's like the TSA touching the junk of average everyday citizens at US airports in the hope that a terrorist will walk past.

Re:Not 1Gbps (1)

johnsnails (1715452) | more than 3 years ago | (#36552092)

I think it was said in jest... (I dont think AC marked as troll was being srs)

Re:Not 1Gbps (1)

c0lo (1497653) | more than 3 years ago | (#36552096)

they are going to start Filtering Our Internet AFTER the plan to start Filtering Our Internet was Scapped

So what you're saying is that you're a pedophile. Because the sites that are being censored are primarily child abuse sites.

[Citation direly needed] I don't trust an opaque system. Even more as you took the reserve of slipping in the primarily word in you phrase.

You see, I'm not suffering from ADHD [wikipedia.org] or Alzheimer's, so I still remember that a bunch [wikinews.org] of legal location were filtered out [wikipedia.org] only some 2 years ago [smh.com.au] .

Re:Not 1Gbps (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36551964)

I can only hope Red Nuts Gillard gets voted out at the next election, and the new government brings some common sense to the table....

Do you really think the Liberal Party can do any better?

They are a bunch of censorious fascist fucks as well, if not more so.

Re:Not 1Gbps (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36551976)

I can only hope Red Nuts Gillard gets voted out at the next election, and the new government brings some common sense to the table....

Yeah, I'm a huge fan of the Opposition's "12Mbps is enough for everybody" policy.

Re:Not 1Gbps (1)

bloodhawk (813939) | more than 3 years ago | (#36552010)

To be fair their plan was for a minimum of 12mbps, which is no worse than what the current government is promising and significantly better than what most of us have now or for the next decade while we wait for the NBN.

Re:Not 1Gbps (1)

Majkow (604785) | more than 3 years ago | (#36552052)

Libral plan was 12mbs Max, labor plan was min 12mbs.

Re:Not 1Gbps (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36552464)

No that was a minimum, though the wording was horribly put by the idiot lib minister at the time (can't expect much from a polly). It was also guarenteed to a far higher percentage of the population as opposed to the NBN.

Re:Not 1Gbps (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36555704)

No that was a minimum, though the wording was horribly put by the idiot lib minister at the time (can't expect much from a polly). It was also guarenteed to a far higher percentage of the population as opposed to the NBN.

Lets see. I believe the text of their plan is something like

The Coalition’s plan will deliver a uniform national broadband network, under which 97 percent of premises are able to be served by high speed networks capable of delivering from 100 Mbps down to a minimum of 12 Mbps peak speed, using a combination of technologies including HFC, DSL and fixed wireless.,/quote>

I'm not so sure that's better that what's on offer from the NBN.

Re:Not 1Gbps (1)

mugginz (1157101) | more than 3 years ago | (#36552074)

But wasn't that "a minimum peak speed" of 12mbps? The Libs have used some pretty wishy washy terms for the "alternative." Also, how is their 12mbps no worse that what the current gov is promising? At best it'll be fibre to the node. It'd be nice to have the alternative gov have a compelling broad band story so that no matter who was in power we the Autralian people would have a good service but alas, me thinks the Libs plan is short sighted.

Re:Not 1Gbps (1)

rtb61 (674572) | more than 3 years ago | (#36557146)

Let's be honest the Liberal/Telstra plan was to spend the next fifty years and beyond talking about it, whilst Telstra maximised the profit potential of their current degrading copper network. The Labour alternative was to seek a solution and actually implement it.

Note this not only sticks it too the incumbent telecom it also screws over the existing mass media channels, be they idiot box or dead tree.

In political terms it also cripples the ability of corporations to dominate the limited high cost mass media political advertising, as that advertising has to compete against the directly shared political mind scape created on a 100mbps multimedia socio-political network.

New things like live video feeds from all the various federal and state political houses, so people can always keep an eye on politicians. Banning of all 'commercial' political advertisements as all politicians would have equal access to broadcast their speeches et at on broadband for all those who wish to view them.

Easy to guess why Labour wanted broadband and why the Liberals (the Australian libertarian political party) wanted narrow band and mass media with corporate campaign donations.

Re:Not 1Gbps (3, Informative)

snookums (48954) | more than 3 years ago | (#36552240)

My guess it will be that outside the Capital Cities it will be 100Mbps shared between all connections... which will probably end up being slower that the current system of Telstra enabling an ADSL2+ Exchange with an 8MBps backhaul, and then selling dozens of 20Mbps connections to the houses connected to it.

Also... thousands of "remote" users currently on ADSL or ADSL2+ will be relegated to NBN Wireless

This is all complete nonsense. The initial spec for the NBN is 2.5 Gbps downstream per GPON (not more than 64 homes) scaling to 40 Gbps, nothing like "100 Mbps shared between all connections". This fiber will then connect your house back to one of 22 points of interconnect, where ISPs will have connectivity (or rent it from a backbone provider). If the ISPs choose to under-provision their non-capital PoPs, that's really no change from today, but there's no reason to believe an ISP would cripple themselves with a 100 Mbps back-haul.

Telstra will also be able to maintain their copper network in places not serviced by NBN fiber. Indeed, they are obliged to continue phone service to these customers for at least 10 years under Universal Service Obligation. so why not run ADSL over those wires too?

References:
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1511009 [whirlpool.net.au]
http://www.dbcde.gov.au/broadband/national_broadband_network/nbn_policy_statements [dbcde.gov.au]

Re:Not 1Gbps (1)

kakarote (2294232) | more than 3 years ago | (#36551886)

or you can say that 100000kbps on http://goo.gl/5JMbW [goo.gl] :)

Actually, 1Gbps will be offered next year (3, Informative)

Namarrgon (105036) | more than 3 years ago | (#36552380)

Sacrificing modpoints to say this:

...providing broadband services with initial speeds of up to 100 megabits per second (mbps), rising to 1 gigabit per second (gbps) in 2012, and with the capacity for further upgrades in the future...

Taken from NBNCo's Overview PDF [nbnco.com.au] .

that's Good (1)

essayservices (2242884) | more than 3 years ago | (#36551788)

Re:that's Good (1)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 3 years ago | (#36552894)

Idiot, take a look at the link you just posted. Note the rel="nofollow" attribute. That means that search engines will ignore it. You have not cleverly got 'Diss' associated with your service in search engines, you've just posted something showing that you are semi-literate (not a great advert for an essay-writing service: if I were to pay someone to write my essays for me, I'd want them to write ones that had a chance of passing).

Line quality (2)

Zuriel (1760072) | more than 3 years ago | (#36551972)

Even if it didn't actually go faster on paper, there's currently a lot of people on marginal infrastructure. Copper lines that were laid 20 years ago and have been slowly corroding ever since which are adequate for voice but were absolutely never intended for ADSL2+.

If you've been in a group in an online game with an Australian and he's randomly disconnected, we're sorry. A lot of us access the internet over a wet piece of string.

Re:Line quality (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36552116)

The 20 year old lines are fine. It's the 60+ year old lines that are really struggling.

I've literally had customers in tears because their internet couldn't work to a reasonable standard and is, probably to this day still not working. I quit that job Over 6 months ago.

Re:Line quality (2)

dbIII (701233) | more than 3 years ago | (#36552744)

Until about a year ago the copper phone line into my place was wrapped in lead and paper. Every time it rained heavily the net dropped out for a couple of days and the normal voice transmission on the phone was nearly unusable, and eventually last year it was completely dead for about a week before repair. I live less than 5 kilometres from the centre of a state capital - that's how crappy the Telstra network is.
The repaired line survived going under more than a metre of water for a few days so that's a LOT more reliable than dropping out every time it rains :)

Re:Line quality (1)

Malc (1751) | more than 3 years ago | (#36553076)

Just been reminded this of myself. I will be staying with my partner's family for a while this summer (winter!) in Ballarat. That's over 100,000 people, but I just can't believe how bad the internet situation is there. They've upgraded their DSL so that I can work whilst I'm there, but the prices are outrageous, especially considering what one gets for the money: low speeds and tiny bit budget. For twice the price of what I get here in London (and the UK is hardly cheap), they get ADSL instead of ADSL2+, they get 10 GB /mo during the day (WTF is this BS?) and 40GB/mo off-peak versus unlimited, they get their upstream bandwidth artificially crippled at 384kbs versus whatever the line can handle. They're classified as "off-net", but they're not exactly out of town. What did Aussies do to deserve such wank internet service?

Re:Line quality (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36553662)

What did we do?

I'll tell you what we did.

We chose to live in a country that's physically the size of the forty-eight states, whilst having less than one tenth the population. We chose to live in a country where it's not unheard of for it to be several hundred kilometres from one town to the next. And finally - and most tellingly - we chose to live in a country where the government of the day decided to privatise the monopoly telco (Telstra), and to do so by selling it lock, stock and barrel. Not by doing it the sane way, of keeping the infrastructure in public hands and selling off the retail services arm - nooooo, that would have been logical. But it also would have brought in less money.

So we suffered through over ten years of this monopoly provider basically doing no upgrades, minimal repairs, and generally spending as little money as it could get away with (consider that they only rolled out their own DSL hardware when competitors were granted access to exchanges to install equipment), whilst charging exorbitant rates. And now we're left with a copper network that is, as the grandparent said, little better than wet string, and need to essentially build the entire infrastructure up again from the ground up - and that being the case, we might as well do it with fibre optic, since the cost isn't going to be that much different in the long run.

Fuck you very much, little Johnny Howard. And fuck you very much, Sol Trujillo, for essentially forcing the entire company to bend over and take it without any lube.

Re:Line quality (1)

Malc (1751) | about 3 years ago | (#36620908)

Heh: don't give me the physical country size BS ;) Canada is bigger and has a small population, but historically has had some of the lowest broadband costs in the West. I know, I lived in Ontario. Both countries are urbanised and have masses of space with barely any population. Sounds like the other part of your post is more akin to the root cause. Besides, every thing's expensive in Australia for some reason.

Bye bye copper (3, Informative)

dan_barrett (259964) | more than 3 years ago | (#36552066)

For those that don't understand the significance, Telstra own the "last mile" copper and HFC network in Australia (Optus own a small chunk of HFC too as mentioned above.) If you want wired internet access from anyone, you generally have to pay Telstra (directly or indirectly.) As you'd expect they've used their postion to unfairly advantage their own internet service, while delaying competitors from access to exchanges to install DSLAMS, gouging competitors for access to the copper network,etc.)

The deal means NBNCo can use Telstra's cable ducts, pits and poles to initially rollout fibre everywhere. it also means maintenance of Telstra's crappy and aging copper phone network will be handed to NBNco soon. Theoreticallly all the existing ISP's paying Telstra for access to the copper network will start paying NBNCo, instead, Because NBNCo are barred from offering retail internet services, in theory access to the network should be a level playing field.

Eventually they'll rip out the existing copper phone network, so we'll just have the optical cable.

My understanding is the NBNCo network will be a 'common carrier'; eg they provide the layer 1/2 network, any internet / cable TV / telephony / other data provider can buy access to the network and deliver internet / TV / telephony / data services over that network.
It's the same model we use for water and power in Australia, eg the power generation company doesn't own or maintain the wires in the street, and isn't responsible for connection to your house. NBNCo are supposed to operate at the same level, providing teh pipes/trucks only, if you will.

According to the pollies NBNCo can't filter the network it at the wholesale, common carrier level. We'll wait and see.

Adam Internet, Internode and others are touting 25 to 100 megabit connections, 100GB/month data at $60/month, which is significantly more expensive than the equivalent over ADSL/copper phone lines. You can buy these right now in areas that are connected (new suburbs that were prewired in South Australia, eg Lochiel Park, LightsView, etc. ) Prospect, Aldinga and other initial rollout sites in Australia will also be able to get fibre internet over this service shortly.

Re:Bye bye copper (1)

Llian (615902) | more than 3 years ago | (#36552278)


Price will come down much like they did for ADSL. It wasn't that long ago that 100GB was the upper limit for ADSL here in Oz. Now we have ISP's offering terrabyte plans. The problem as I see it will be reaching critical mass which will be the main price dropper. If the libs get in this won't happen. Let us hope for more contracts that are really expensive to renege on.

Re:Bye bye copper (1)

yourdeadin (944000) | more than 3 years ago | (#36552290)

1 TB, Who is offering that?

Re:Bye bye copper (1)

mugginz (1157101) | more than 3 years ago | (#36552326)

1 TB, Who is offering that?

Internode for one.

to quote thier web page

Easy Broadband XXL 1,000 Gigabytes - yes that's 1 Terabyte! $119.95 $129.95

Re:Bye bye copper (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36552330)

iiNet - I've been on a TB plan for almost a year now.

Re:Bye bye copper (1)

Cimexus (1355033) | more than 3 years ago | (#36552864)

- Internode;
- iiNet;
- TPG (well technically they have an unlimited plan - not available in all areas though)

That's three off the top of my head. There are plenty of others that may not have TB plans, but do have plans of 500GB and upwards, which is still pretty damn significant.

Re:Bye bye copper (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36552484)

NO!
NBN business plan is for 7% increase year on year

Re:Bye bye copper (1)

complete loony (663508) | more than 3 years ago | (#36552564)

The devil is in the details though. The cheapest connection via the NBN is currently planned to be $24 a month for 24MBit at the customer end. However there is an additional $20 per month per MBit charge at the peering point that the ISP will have to pay for all traffic flowing over this last mile network. With no way for traffic to flow directly between households. And while I realise the pricing structure is based on a fairly large and probably normal over-subscription ratio, this means that anyone who wants to provide any kind of data service over this network would have to add a whopping $480 a month to the bill to allow one customer to use their connection 24/7. And that's without considering any other costs you may have.

What's the point of building an uber fast fiber network if you are going to gouge anyone who dares to actually use it? Why are we building this thing if ISP prices and services wont get any better than they are now?

Re:Bye bye copper (4, Insightful)

sonicmerlin (1505111) | more than 3 years ago | (#36552586)

I'd just like to point out the only reason you will have caps on your FTTH connection is because of the government's absurd pricing scheme that isn't used in any other wholesale network in the world. In addition to the usual $xx/(tier of speed) retail ISPs have to pay NBNCo (known as AVC, ex: $24/12mbit, $36/50 mbit, etc.), there is an additional "contention charge", called the connectivity virtual circuit (CVC). ISPs attempting to provision bandwidth to their customers will have to pay $20/mbit of actual throughput.

There are two points to consider here. One is that this charge is utterly unrelated to the cost or difficulty of transferring data on the new network. The FTTH network will be provisioned extremely well. Charging $20/mbit is ludicrous. Those prices are beyond inflated. Currently international transit data to Australia costs $40/mbit, and drops 50% every year on average. Worst of all is that NBNco's business plan foresees charges dropping only 50% after 10 years. Bandwidth costs around the world drop 35% *annually*.

The second point is that NBNCo is ostensibly using CVC charges to hasten payback on the network. However it absolutely doesn't need a CVC charge, and could instead simply increase each AVC tier by a few dollars/month. Simon Hackett, the founder and private owner of Internode, has relentlessly criticized the NBN over this issue (http://delimiter.com.au/2011/05/20/conroy-has-stuffed-up-nbn-pricing-says-hackett/).

Because of CVC, 90-95% of the FTTH's capacity will go unused. Remember, GPON allocates 2.4 gbit/s to each node of 32 users. FTTH networks like Verizon FIOS deliver virtually 1:1 uncontended bandwidth to their customers. XGPON (10 gbit/s) is already commercially available and NBNCo will no doubt adopt it in a few years. This will mean an even smaller % of the network's will be utilized. Make no mistake: if not for the absurd and unnecessary CVC charges everyone in Australia would have unlimited, uncapped accounts.

Re:Bye bye copper (1)

sonicmerlin (1505111) | more than 3 years ago | (#36552594)

I may not have made this clear in my previous post. My point about the international transit data being $40/mbit and dropping 50% every year, compared to NBNco's $20/mbit CVC charge, is that intranational transit is orders of magnitude cheaper than international. In a couple of years it will actually be cheaper to transmit data across the Pacific Ocean to Australia than it will be to send data between users in Australia, despite the fact that the NBN is basically one giant LAN network where bandwidth is virtually unlimited.

Re:Bye bye copper (1)

dan_barrett (259964) | more than 3 years ago | (#36553064)

This does seem especially dumb. I thought that was the whole point -put in insane, unlimited bandwith across the whole country and people will invent ways to use it!

Re:Bye bye copper (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36552728)

It's not more expensive, it's cheaper. My last three contracts for a 20mb/60gb connection have been $100, $80 and currently $70. $10 less for five times more bandwidth is cheaper, but I'm willing to bet by the time the NBN rolls past my door it will be $30 for 100mb and no caps.

Re:Bye bye copper (1)

Kuruk (631552) | more than 3 years ago | (#36552786)

So we go from one ex-government monster to another government made monster.

Im sure it will be more fair.

I mean the government doesnt want us to pay anything for all this does it ?

BYE BYE REDUNDANCY (1)

KuRa_Scvls (932317) | more than 3 years ago | (#36553118)

Now, when the power goes out, so will your landline

Re:BYE BYE REDUNDANCY (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36553946)

Now, when the power goes out, so will your landline

Actually, the user's end has battery backup.

Expensive, Slow and Capped (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36552350)

The basic connect will increase price of urban connection by 100%
Slow the connection down to 10Mbps
Limit the amount you can get on the basic contract to 10% of common urban deals
Then place extreme contention ratios at the exchange so you will be lucky to get 1Mbps

Re:Expensive, Slow and Capped (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36552514)

I don't think so, Tony.

Re:Expensive, Slow and Capped (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36552948)

NBN Co estimated the retail price for a 12 Mbps service with a 50 GB cap will be between $53 and $58 a month
Eftel over Telstra Cu retail 22 Mbps with 200 GB cap at $49 a month

Re:Expensive, Slow and Capped (1)

mugginz (1157101) | more than 3 years ago | (#36554330)

Who gets 22Mbps over ADSL2+?

Wish I did

Re:Expensive, Slow and Capped (1)

perryizgr8 (1370173) | about 3 years ago | (#36657590)

you don't?

Re:Expensive, Slow and Capped (1)

quantumphaze (1245466) | more than 3 years ago | (#36554424)

Eftel over Telstra Cu retail 22 Mbps with 200 GB cap at $49 a month

+$30 line rental

Getting it away from Telstra changes that (1)

dbIII (701233) | more than 3 years ago | (#36552776)

See the post above about what Internode is selling now for NBN sites and it's IPv6 as well. On the old system my workplace is paying more than $600 per month for 2M/2M so I can't wait for the NBN to get the internet out of Telstra's greedy hands.

$500m exit clause (1)

paylett (553168) | more than 3 years ago | (#36552376)

And they included a half-billion dollar exit clause [abc.net.au] , which will seriously deter any subsequent government from trying to stuff it up. :)

Re:$500m exit clause (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36552568)

That's subject to achieving a 20% FTTP rollout target - which doesn't seem likely prior to the next election.

Abomination (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36552660)

This project is a total abomination produced by a government so inept its leader is the most reviled Australian Prime Minister of all time.

They have agreed to pay Telstra and Oputs $12 billion to retire their copper networks when really they should have just let the carriers wear the decline of those private assets.

When the government goes to SELL the NBN (which they must do down the track) who will they sell it to? Since Australia will absolutely not allow foreign ownership of critical infrastructure your choices are small and my vite is Telstra. Therefore we've just paid Telstra $12 billion to eventually re-establish the SAME @#$@#$! monopoly over NBN fibre that they have always had (to our significant detriment) over the copper network. Since in my opinion only Australian companies will be allowed to bid for the NBN you will see exactly the same farce that was perpetrated by the NSW government when they sold the state power generation assets at an insanely low price.

Will someone please invade my country... PLEASE!!!

Telstra is the abomination and singtel/optus too (1)

dbIII (701233) | more than 3 years ago | (#36552716)

Selling the infrastructure the first time was the stupid mistake that meant we had to have an NBN in the first place. The majority of it is really what Telstra had planned to roll out around 2000. Instead since the mid 1990s we've had not much other than patches to keep the decaying network going and links to new mobile phone towers.
It was insane to sell it in the first place (as was obvious before and demonstrated now) and it will be no more sane to sell the necessary replacement. All that would be gained is some short term benefits for flown in management while the taxpayers and shareholders bleed money - just like the last time.

The oblig. Australian "stories" are early. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36552688)

It used to be that Slashdot wasn't saturated with non-stories from Australia until into the weekend.

This doesn't bode well for a Slashdot anybody but Aussies can be bothered to visit.

Stop being so lazy then (1)

dbIII (701233) | more than 3 years ago | (#36552792)

Stop being so lazy then and submit some stories from where you live.

Waste of Money (1)

CuteSteveJobs (1343851) | more than 3 years ago | (#36552906)

By my calculation Conroy just spent $521 on behalf of each man, woman and child in Australia ($11.8B / 22,643,653 people) to buy an aging copper network run by Telstra: a privatised monopoly phone company with a crappy record for innovation, value or customer service. In exchange for this I get to pay almost exactly what I currently do for the same Internet service I already do through a new monopoly. If I am unlucky, it will be even slower. What is the point of this? Telstra must be laughing their asses off.

By law I can't even buy my internet service direct from the new monopoly. I must go through a "provider" who will add a 100% markup. And for what? What a complete waste of money.

Re:Waste of Money (1)

mugginz (1157101) | more than 3 years ago | (#36554548)

They money Conroy just spent means that NBNCo doesn't need to go "re-inventing the wheel" to build out a lot of the network. Where there's pit and pipe already, they get to avoid building there own. There are projected savings due to using Telstra's infrastructure which is why it was worth paying for.

Additionally, there are many who can't even get 8Mpbs, some are on much less. There are some that suffer hourly ADSL line re-syncs which means when your trying to do something like VOIP you can expect you call to die when the ADSL session does. Not only is the NBN faster the ADSL, it's chalk and cheese far more reliable than what ADSL is.

Regarding your comment regarding of not being able to buy directly from the wholesaler, there are very good reasons to keep the monopoly section of the network a level playing field. You should read up on the reasons behind the design decisions that have been made for the NBN. There might be some improvements possible for the implementation and layout but the business model will be far better than the Telstra copper situation that we have now.

Re:Waste of Money (1)

countach (534280) | more than 3 years ago | (#36580702)

I can't say if it is good value for money or not, but it would cost a heck of a lot of money to dig up the ground to lay a parallel set of trenches for the new fibre optic. Of course, the govt. was stupid in the first place to privatise Telstra whilst giving them these trenches. They should have privatised it and kept the rights to the holes in the ground.

Optus undervalued their cable infrastructure? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36553104)

Has the Optus CEO properly considered the real value of the cable network? Are the mobile sections of Optus using network capacity that is provided by the fixed line and cable part of Optus without putting that on their balance sheets? The cable infrastructure is not legacy; it includes some really good, up-to-date infrastructure. In any event, I look forward to my NBN connection, although sacrificing the cable infrastructure may be less of a good deal than our CEO thinks.

Re:Optus undervalued their cable infrastructure? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36553154)

You are spot on; the mobile groups somehow manage to use fixed line infrastructure without putting it on their balance sheets, causing cable to seem to be almost a financial disaster. The reality is that cable requires close to zero running costs, even though we have proprietary Cisco software, from which we are migrating. After migrating to free software the licensing costs disappear. I think POS has undervalued our cable infrastructure.

Still government owned (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36555110)

One government-sponsored monopoly to another. Everyone suffers.

Re:Still government owned (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36555134)

I see you haven't bothered to read up on the details of the matter.

I guess it's just easier to whinge than read.

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