×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Why Classic Video Game Revamps Must Disappoint

Soulskill posted more than 2 years ago | from the all-those-extra-bits-are-a-blessing-and-a-curse dept.

Classic Games (Games) 129

An anonymous reader writes "Somehow my brain, so addled by pop-culture and videogames, drew a link between the alteration of the game-play mechanics in a 20-year-old series, and growing up. I want things to be how they were. I want to play the games I played when I was a child, only I want them to be new. Naturally, this just can't happen. Things will never be the way they used to be. Summer days are no longer spent running around outside before collapsing on a sofa to try to beat Labyrinth Zone; instead they're spent in a sweltering office full of morons who watch The Apprentice. Life has changed. Circumstances have changed. Even if the perfect 2D Sonic game were released tomorrow, it still wouldn't feel right, because I'm no longer the person who played those games.'"

cancel ×
This is a preview of your comment

No Comment Title Entered

Anonymous Coward 1 minute ago

No Comment Entered

129 comments

balls (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36560594)

ballsack

Re:balls (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36560832)

I think this accurately describes everything in this article, mod parent as informative

Re:balls (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36561158)

I actually posted this because I don't understand the /. moderation system and as an engineer, I'm good at poking shit I don't understand (I read the FAQ too). It's mysterious to me that THIS is the one anon comment I post which gets modded up!

Astounding (-1, Redundant)

DanTheManMS (1039636) | more than 2 years ago | (#36560612)

Cool story, bro.

Re:Astounding (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36560784)

I guess it makes sense I don't see the "'News' for Nerds" tag on the website anymore. /. has contining to stop being about news and nerds

Really? (4, Insightful)

Haeleth (414428) | more than 2 years ago | (#36560684)

And yet when I go back and play classic games, often in emulators -- games made at least 15 years ago, and in a few cases over 25 years ago! -- I sure feel like I'm enjoying them.

And it's not purely nostalgia; I have enjoyed games from that era that I did not play at the time.

Comcast! AT&T! (3, Insightful)

earls (1367951) | more than 2 years ago | (#36560822)

Someone throttle this pirate!

Re:Comcast! AT&T! (1)

Luckyo (1726890) | more than 2 years ago | (#36561800)

Not going to help much with stuff he's downloading being smaller in size then modern web pages.

Re:Comcast! AT&T! (2)

tepples (727027) | more than 2 years ago | (#36562400)

smaller in size

Doesn't matter. It only has to be big enough to be original. George Harrison lost a million dollar lawsuit for copying nine notes from "He's So Fine" into his song "My Sweet Lord".

Re:Comcast! AT&T! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36562970)

then modern web pages do what? and smaller than what?

Re:Comcast! AT&T! (1)

mattack2 (1165421) | more than 2 years ago | (#36563096)

I too have enjoyed playing old games I never played at the time, though usually on e.g. a PS2 version. I wish I could legally get the ROMs to play on MAME.

Also, the originator doesn't have to be insulting -- The Apprentice (and other reality shows) can be very entertaining.

Re:Really? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36560942)

And it's not purely nostalgia; I have enjoyed games from that era that I did not play at the time.

Blasphemy. If you have fun with anything that's more than a day old, the only possible explanation is that you have been blinded by that evil, bad, nasty nostalgia.

Re:Really? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36560972)

Another way I know it's not purely nostalgia is that sometimes I don't like a game that I have fond memories of. When I was a kid I thought Golden Axe was way cooler than Streets of Rage. Went back and played them both again and jesus, Golden Axe sucks.

Re:Really? (3, Insightful)

Hatta (162192) | more than 2 years ago | (#36561024)

As an avid retro gamer I don't think there's much more to be said. Maybe he forgot how to have fun. The rest of us enjoy classic game play.

Personally though, I don't see the point in retro remakes. I'd rather play the original, in almost every circumstance. Developers should spend their time making new games in the classic genres.

Re:Really? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36561414)

Yep. I've been replaying the M&M series only because nobody has really made a party crpg lately. Not that I'm aware of at least. Really sucks, because that genre was and is the best.

Re:Really? (1)

sproketboy (608031) | more than 2 years ago | (#36564240)

Yeah Might and Magic was good. There is dungeoncraft and forgottenworld which are decent remakes of the older RPG type games.

Re:Really? (1)

WaroDaBeast (1211048) | more than 2 years ago | (#36561442)

I'm fine with remakes, as long as they have something new in them. It can be anything ranging from a new area to a new character or a new class. And no, graphics aren't something new to me. I expect the remake to sport new graphics, unlike Tales of Phantasia's remake on the GBA (which looked worse than the SNES version).

Re:Really? (1)

Darkness404 (1287218) | more than 2 years ago | (#36562966)

I agree, the Final Fantasy remakes (especially Dawn of Souls) were amazing on the GBA. But Phantasia was a terrible remake, and when the "professional" translation makes more mistakes than the DeJap fan-made translation, it isn't a good sign. Overall though I've been disappointed with Namco's efforts with their Tales series in the west. Namco could have done a lot to help the RPG-starved Wii by releasing Tales of Graces for it rather than inexplicably deciding to only release it for the PS3 in the US. Then -none- of the DS/GBA series was localized for the west.

All of the Tales games have been excellent games and yet few have made it to the US and even fewer to Europe. Symphonia was easily one of the top 5 GC games made, and Vesperia is one of the better Xbox games out there, but there is so much that Namco hasn't bothered releasing.

Re:Really? (1)

RyuuzakiTetsuya (195424) | more than 2 years ago | (#36561600)

My thoughts almost exactly.

In Japan, there's this weird culture of remakes. See: Sega Ages 2500 series. I played the Outrun version. It's replaced the original version for me in terms of what I'd go to for classic(read: not 2. Although OR2 is good fun) Outrun time.

Upgrading graphics, tightening a few things, etc. is almost preferable to me over a sequel to redo old games in the modern age. MegaMan Powered Up/RockMan RockMan simply was awesome.

We have better CPUs, better graphical capabilities, controllers, etc. Let's use them.

360 D-pad sucks (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 2 years ago | (#36562446)

We have better CPUs, better graphical capabilities, controllers, etc. Let's use them.

We don't necessarily have better controllers. The directional pad on even a worn Nintendo Entertainment System controller is far more precise than the miserable failure of a directional pad on an Xbox 360 controller [destructoid.com] .

Re:360 D-pad sucks (1)

RyuuzakiTetsuya (195424) | more than 2 years ago | (#36563614)

Funny, my PS3's DPad works just fine.

(BTW, Microsoft responded to that letter with the pro controller. Last time this happened, 2nd gen controller sucks, was the 5200. I hope Microsoft's listening.)

Re:Really? (1)

Skarecrow77 (1714214) | more than 2 years ago | (#36562172)

Metroid Zero Mission is fantastic. other than nostalgia, I can't see a reason to play the old one. it really feels clunky and you're getting nearly the same experience with zero mission (plus epilogue)

Final Fantasy 1 for the PSP is superb. it is better than the original in every way. after playing the original for 15-20 years, I thought that the GBA and PSP versions were too easy/dumbed down, but the more I played them (especially the PSP version), the more I realized that the original was broken in several very important ways and I just always accepted the broken bits as part of the gameplay experience.

Doom3 kicked the everlovin shit out of Doom1.

remakes aren't bad if done well.

Re:Really? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36562408)

Doom3 kicked the everlovin shit out of Doom1.

They're kind of apples-to-oranges, the games took very different approaches from one another. Personally, I much prefer the original. Other than that, I agree.

Re:Really? (2)

10101001 10101001 (732688) | more than 2 years ago | (#36563820)

Metroid Zero Mission is fantastic. other than nostalgia, I can't see a reason to play the old one. it really feels clunky and you're getting nearly the same experience with zero mission (plus epilogue)

As an avid Metroid fan, I'd have to say you perhaps missed the point of the original Metroid? It didn't involve hand-coddling, story-driven direction. It threw you in a sandbox with a vague notion of your mission, then let you discover in a 2D platform adventure just where you were supposed to go and what you were supposed to do; ie, it in many ways was the platform adventure equivalent of the Legend of Zelda, which isn't that surprising.

Now, having said all that, I agree that the original Metroid was clunky (limited direction of fire and no ability to crouch, off-hand). But, in some ways Metroid Zero Mission really missed the mark, IMO, in trying too hard to tell people what to do. Thankfully, yes, they put in enough hidden blocks so people could work around some of that.

However, clearly the atmosphere in Metroid Zero Mission tries too hard to tell the player exactly where to go and what to do. In short, it simply feels too heavy handed. In some ways, I'd place Castlevania - Harmony of Dissonance and Castlevania - Aria of Sorrow as better Metroid games in spirit, as they don't try to push plot as a means to direct you on where to go or what to do; the point of an adventure and an adventurer is to figure that stuff out on your own. And yes, that means that the original Metroid, with all its many clear flaws, still has something to offer that I just don't see Metroid Zero Misson offering...except, you know, in that it includes Metroid as an unlockable. :)

PS - Please don't mistake this for me saying Metroid Zero Mission is a bad game. It is quite good, just like Metroid Fusion. Truthfully, almost all the Metroid games pretty badly break the original Metroid formula, be it through progressively lowering acid, one-way gates, locked doors, or translation decoder locks. A major part of the fun of Metroid has resulted in simply bypassing the developer induced barriers in unexpected ways. Because of how glitchy the original Metroid is, it's actually one of the best in the series for that sort of fun. I mean, who wants to wait to get the Varia when it just requires some well timed bombing or luring a Waver up to freeze?

Re:Really? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36564892)

That only demonstrates you haven't evolved as a person since 1985.

Really? (2)

WrongSizeGlass (838941) | more than 2 years ago | (#36560690)

I want to play the games I played when I was a child, only I want them to be new. Naturally, this just can't happen. Things will never be the way they used to be.

You can substitute just about anything for 'play the games I played' and that statement would hold true. The times (and games and people) are a changin'.

Re:Really? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36562736)

You mean like this?

I want to fuck the girls I fucked when I was a child, only I want them to be new. Naturally, this just can't happen. Things will never be the way they used to be.

Hey guys, an unmarked black van just pulled up in front of my house. Wonder what's up...

I disagree: the ultimate revamp (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36560722)

Funny for this just get posted. A few hours ago I was introduced to "Super Mario Bros. Crossover (Hacked!)" - I suggest the nostalgic among us give it a whirl. It's the original Super Mario Bros. except that you can play through the game as other 8 - bit Nintendo characters such Samus, Mega Man, and several others. The people who put this together did a bang up job. I blew through level 1-1 -> 7-4 in about an hour with one of the Contra guys. You get all of there weapons and attributes, the in game music even changes to accommodate the character. Anyway, I think Link and Contra guy are the most fun. If your missing the past, as I do, this is a fantastic way to relive it.

It's free on the google chrome store.

Different (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36560756)

Life may be different and I may be different but I still love classic arcade games and side scrollers. Simple objects with a simple set of rules goes a long way. You would be amazed how great a game is by the stuff you don't put in it...

Sigh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36560770)

Why is the truth so depressing?

Sonic may not be the best example (5, Insightful)

Hahnsoo (976162) | more than 2 years ago | (#36560786)

Sonic the Hedgehog may be a poor example for this topic. The gameplay consisted mostly of running and jumping really fast while grabbing rings. It took advantage of the console technology of the time to provide smooth framerates with no tearing, which allowed the backgrounds to zoom by quickly, giving the illusion of speed. But that was the gimmick. Sonic the Hedgehog, as a series, wasn't known for being difficult (like Mega Man) or innovative (like Marathon). It doesn't even have that much of a compelling story (like RPGs). The same gameplay 20 years later may appeal to some people, but most gamers who played Sonic back then are different people now and are looking for more than just running and jumping really fast while grabbing rings (which is one of the laments of the article).

A better example of a classic revamp would be the Bionic Commando Rearmed or the most recent Mega Man game. Bionic Commando Rearmed adds a lot of modern features to the original game, like big boss battles, hacking mini-games, and the ability to swap weapons within the stage, but the basic mechanic of swinging and shooting is still challenging. The most recent Mega Man was pretty popular, despite (or perhaps because) it staying true to the 8-bit Mega Man graphics and gameplay, mostly because it still maintained the same level of challenge.

Of course, many classic games are getting a cloning vats treatment on the iPhone/iPad/iFranchise and Android market. If anything, the older 8-bit, 16-bit, and PS1 era games (or clones of those games) are seeing a bit of a renaissance on those platforms.

Re:Sonic may not be the best example (1)

greg1104 (461138) | more than 2 years ago | (#36561068)

Mega Man is also my pick for the appropriate counter-example. The recent re-releases used the old engine, so the controls felt exactly the same. And they perfectly recreated the feel of the old title. The difficulty level, the unfairness of play, everything was just right--just with all new levels and enemies. The way I wanted to throw the god-damn controller at the screen was exactly the same as when I first discovered the game in 1990. The only difference was that I'd be far more likely to damage my slim DLP panel if I actually did it, the old CRT survived the few times I gave in to that anger and let it fly.

The most amazing part is that they eventually released one of the new Mega Man games for the PS3, too, and even that one ended up being the same experience. Didn't even require any Nintento hardware, yet it was once again 1990 and I was pissed at the level designers and alternated between fury to beat them and despair that I should just give up. If Sonic hasn't managed to accomplish the same retro yet updated feat, it's not because it's impossible; they just didn't do it right.

Re:Sonic may not be the best example (1)

Tetsujin (103070) | more than 2 years ago | (#36561654)

Mega Man is also my pick for the appropriate counter-example. The recent re-releases used the old engine

You mean the recent sequels? (Rockman 9 and 10 - both are on PS3...)

They don't actually use the old engine, as they don't run on an NES emulation. The old engine has been reimplemented. This is why Rockman 9 had an option to allow you to emulate sprite flicker (which on old hardware would have been caused by software dealing with a hardware limitation on the number of sprites per scanline) - it's also why they were able to do things in 9 and 10 that aren't actually possible on NES hardware.

I did enjoy those two titles, but as examples go they're kind of uninspiring. Going full retro like they did is fun, but it's not something that would work for every title and going backwards like that, back to familiar, safe territory means (in terms of game design) you're not taking a lot of chances.

Re:Sonic may not be the best example (1)

VortexCortex (1117377) | more than 2 years ago | (#36561260)

Yes. In fact it would make the worst example considering that Sega ported it to PC (Sonic2 [in a pack of other games along with Vector Man], Sonic3, Sonic&Knukles, and Sonic3+Knuckles) and I still have it installed and running via WINE (runs natively on XP).

Additionally, I've also got the XBox 360 Ports of Sonic 1, 2, 3, Knuckles, Even the Dreamcast game Sonic Adventure (Directors cut) is available on the XBox Live marketplace. I've got the MegaMan series on the 360 (as a single disk) as well...

I think the author just grew up, and/or got bored with the games; Hence the desire for novelty in the old format. I still enjoy the old games and buy old carts of games I never had the money to buy as a kid. I get just as much enjoyment out of these games and their music as I ever did as a child -- Even more so now since I have the patience to beat them, and there are SAVE FEATURES for the games that did not have them.

I still have my original (S)NES. My original Genesis croaked, but I still have it along with all of my cartridges. Unlike most, who may be operating in a gray area WRT copyright laws, I dump my own original ROMs for use in emulators on my PC (no DRM = fair use).

To address the lack of novelty issue: LOOK HARDER PAL. Seriously. There is a mod community. Whether or not it's legal: The holy grail of Sonic mods Knuckles in Sonic 1 [sonicretro.org] exists... o_O (remember, you could plug Sonic2 into the top of Sonic&Knuckles to play as Knuckles in Sonic 2... but Sonic 1 was too different, so you got a mini-game instead -- Well now modders have done what the original devs at Sega never did by reverse engineering and modifying the machine code [and palette] of the game ).

There are mods for Everything from new levels for classic Mario & Sonic to Commander Keen (which I still play in DosBox). The Doom modding community has come leaps and bounds, even adding whole new game types and RPG or RTS components (Currently enjoying Shotgun Frenzy [skulltag.com] Cooperative FPS vs invading demons + Real time strategy elements and in-level weapon purchasing & upgrading -- deployable turret FTW!)

If you can't find enjoyment in the older games, I'm afraid you may have been dropped on your head as an adult.

Re:Sonic may not be the best example (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 2 years ago | (#36562504)

Unlike most, who may be operating in a gray area WRT copyright laws, I dump my own original ROMs for use in emulators on my PC

What dumper would you recommend buying for NES, Genesis, and Super NES cartridges? Retrode is sold out, and the guy who made them complained that it'd be too hard to autodetect the mapper in order to dump NES games.

Re:Sonic may not be the best example (1)

ObsessiveMathsFreak (773371) | more than 2 years ago | (#36561894)

Sonic the Hedgehog, as a series, wasn't known for being difficult (like Mega Man) or innovative (like Marathon). It doesn't even have that much of a compelling story (like RPGs).

The counterexamples to your assertions are, respectively, Sonic 2, Sonic 1 and Sonic 3&K. As platformers, they delivered on all three of these counts. I'll refer you to this article [gamasutra.com] about S3K in particular.

I think the analogy to Sgt Pepper is apt, if a little presumptuous. Certain games define the genres in the eras they are made, and usually become classics whose quality is obvious in any era. The single best example from the 16 bit platforming era is probably Super Mario World, but there are several titles across genres which remain playable and entertaining to this day.

What the author is bemoaning appears to me to be the inability of these old game to achieve the same level of genre defining impact they once did. By definition, this is of course obvious; they cannot define a genre a second time. Nevertheless they remain classics, so long as no-one tries to remake them. I think the same applies to something like the Star Wars prequels.

Re:Sonic may not be the best example (1)

equex (747231) | more than 2 years ago | (#36562516)

Exactly. For the same reasons as every movie which did the Bullet-Time effects after The Matrix, was pretty much forgotten. The only way one can try to remake the classics would be to assume the same mindset at they had back then and try to do a honest re-iteration of the game design and planning. Take what worked well and keep it and add a little extra that 'would have been nice' in the previous game. Upgrade and redo graphics but for gods sake don't alter the general feeling and atmosphere of the game. Do not 'do it in 3D' just because you have some OpenGL developers around. Hire talented pixel-artists who can do unique environment graphics and characters. I say even keep the 8 bit sound, just hire some exceptional people like Martin Galway and Jeroen Tel to do it. It will sound great.

Re:Sonic may not be the best example (1)

donscarletti (569232) | more than 2 years ago | (#36562694)

Also, the Sonic games over the last 5 years have been giant turds of games on their own. I played that one simply titled "Sonic the Hedgehog" and it seemed half finished, the graphics seemed PS1 era, the controls sucked and the level design was awful, short stretches of boring platforming separated by half-arsed cutscenes. Also, random bugs where you would die for no reason, like using circle to grab a string of rings but sometimes you would fling off into space instead. You don't have to be a hurt Sonic fan to hate them, I first played Sonic briefly in '03 and I still hate the new ones.

WoW sucks. (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36560872)

...Sorry, couldn't resist the snipe.

But I reached this conclusion after being bored this past winter, and searching for a decent MMO. There aren't any. (EVE, of course, but I'm sorry - anything that requires complex spreadsheets that would make economics majors cringe isn't a game. It's not even a hobby. :P)

I started reflecting upon the sad state of affairs that is the MMO genre, and I realized something. Part of what made MMOs attractive in the first place was the fact that they were, pardon the pun, game-changing. Sure, there were text-based MUDs aplenty - the golden age was just starting to wind down. Sure, there was UO, but at the risk of annoying legions of UO fans - well, come on, it was UO. Not even close to the same level as that horrible monstrosity and destroyer of lives, careers, marriages and time - EverQuest.

There was something unique about EverQuest, that no other MMO has ever been able to capture, no matter how hard they've tried or what improvements they made. It was the 'newness'. Just a brief time earlier, there was nothing out there like it. But suddenly - bam - the future was here, and holy shit. A massive, 3D world, with ungodly amounts of players. It was the stuff of science fiction back when I was a kid, having to deal with mere 8-bit game consoles - but there it was, finally. The future(tm)! Woo!

Now? Anyone can make an MMO. And it isn't exciting. Because it isn't new. You can change the names of classes; you can add cheesy mechanics, but that initial moment of awe-inspiring potential - stepping into a massive, virtual world for the first time and simply being astounded by the potential - can never come again. ...Also, no moment in gaming will ever be as awesome as getting to the end of Bionic Commando and seeing Hitler, in 8-bit glory. :(

Re:WoW sucks. (1)

SaroDarksbane (1784314) | more than 2 years ago | (#36561554)

that initial moment of awe-inspiring potential - stepping into a massive, virtual world for the first time and simply being astounded by the potential - can never come again

Wish I had modpoints right now. I was an Asheron's Call addict rather than EverQuest, but I feel exactly the same way. Nothing will ever feel the same as it did when I first logged into something of such an enormous scale. I guess it's true what they say: You can't go home. :(

I also wonder how much of it had to do with the rest of the players feeling the same way. MMOs today (especially WoW, but especially EvE . . .) seem to have a much nastier playerbase than I remember from my Asheron days. Maybe we're so used to MMOs now, the sense of wonder and adventure has receded and all we're left with is an amusement park where you wait in line for your next "reward", which makes everyone bitter and entitled.

Tempest, Battlezone, Missile Command are the worst (2)

Quila (201335) | more than 2 years ago | (#36560886)

Tempest can't be played correctly without a potentiometer (the round dial), Missile Command can't be played correctly without a big trackball, and Battlezone can't be played without the two sticks that mirror real-life tracked vehicle driving (which I've done).

However good the graphics and mechanics are recreated, it doesn't work without the controllers the games were designed for.

Re:Tempest, Battlezone, Missile Command are the wo (1)

dcollins (135727) | more than 2 years ago | (#36560956)

Eh, I've had a pretty good time with a Missile Command clone recently, driven by the mouse (which is, after all, just an upside-down trackball).

The other two, sure, I agree with those.

Re:Tempest, Battlezone, Missile Command are the wo (1)

Hatta (162192) | more than 2 years ago | (#36561004)

Tempest acutally uses a spinner. Potentiometers can only move so far in one direction, a spinner moves freely. You can build one from an old ball mouse pretty easily.

For missile command, you can get arcade style trackballs still. I have an X-arcade trackball and it's quite good. I wouldn't recommend the joysticks though.

For Battlezone, and other dual stick games like Robotron 2084 I've found the analog sticks on the dual shock to be a very very good replacement. But again, you can buy twin sticks for use with MAME.

Re:Tempest, Battlezone, Missile Command are the wo (1)

Tehrasha (624164) | more than 2 years ago | (#36562024)

I have yet to find a good spinner for playing Tempest with MAME. The optics in converted mice cannot handle the speed required, compared to the dedicated hardware of the arcade cabinet.

Re:Tempest, Battlezone, Missile Command are the wo (1)

greg1104 (461138) | more than 2 years ago | (#36561162)

Centipede is a more popular title than all these, and that also falls into the category where it's not the same with a trackball that doesn't feel like the one you'll find in a computer trackball. There are some reasonable arcade trackballs for emulation you can use to make it and Misslle command workable though, as well as some other big trackball games (Marble Madness, Crystal Castle).

Emulating the Tempest spinner is much harder but still possible, by purchasing the same type of hardware and calibrating it obsessively. Never 100% right, but 95% is close enough to enjoy the game, and for the adjustment period to playing a genuine cabinet to be short.

Battlezone, though, the feel of that game is impossible to recreate anywhere else. A sit-down vector Star Wars is in that category too.

Re:Tempest, Battlezone, Missile Command are the wo (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36561740)

Yeah, but you can't duplicate the feeling of realizing that Centipede was going to take waaaay too many quarters to master.

Re:Tempest, Battlezone, Missile Command are the wo (1)

greg1104 (461138) | more than 2 years ago | (#36561898)

Actually, just by keeping me away from real work I'm quite sure that playing Centipede costs me far more per hour spent trying to master it now than I used to spend in quarters. Once you get decent, a game of that will easily last 5 or more minutes. That's $3 an hour of playtime. I lose a lot more than that when I blow off my job to play with MAME nowadays.

Re:Tempest, Battlezone, Missile Command are the wo (1)

Greyfox (87712) | more than 2 years ago | (#36561322)

Tempest, Missile Command and Centipede play respectably well with a Logitech Trackman Marble. If you really like the big play-doh trackball, they sell one of those too.

360 degrees can NOT be played without a joystick that can rotate around an axis but doesn't have freedom to go through the center. The game is just impossible.

Spy Hunter absolutely can not be played without the 4 button steering wheel controller, shifter and pedal to control your speed. Which makes me sad because of all the video games I played growing up, I was by far the best at Spy Hunter, and could play it for as long as I wanted to on one quarter.

Re:Tempest, Battlezone, Missile Command are the wo (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36563116)

I was by far the best at Spy Hunter, and could play it for as long as I wanted to on one quarter.

Do you remember your best score by any chance? The acknowledged record is just over 9 million done over approximately 11 hours.

Re:Tempest, Battlezone, Missile Command are the wo (1)

al0ha (1262684) | more than 2 years ago | (#36561568)

True That Tempest. That and the fact that no video game since has been as challenging; period. Tempest rules them all!

Tempest, while it had basic graphics, was a fast kick-ass game, you had to be one bad mo'foing potentiometer master which super brain to hand reflexes to rule at that game.

Re:Tempest, Battlezone, Missile Command are the wo (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36563178)

True That Tempest. That and the fact that no video game since has been as challenging; period. Tempest rules them all!

Tempest, while it had basic graphics, was a fast kick-ass game, you had to be one bad mo'foing potentiometer master which super brain to hand reflexes to rule at that game.

Eh, no. Tempest was relatively easy compared to Sinistar, which will kick most anyone in the nuts.

Re:Tempest, Battlezone, Missile Command are the wo (1)

Tehrasha (624164) | more than 2 years ago | (#36562084)

Nothing compares to the hell of replicating/emulating the 49-position optical joystick used in Sinistar.

Re:Tempest, Battlezone, Missile Command are the wo (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36564868)

Run Coward Run

Xbox 360 gamepad has two sticks (1)

tepples (727027) | about 2 years ago | (#36562558)

Missile Command can't be played correctly without a big trackball

I've tried to make Missile Command work with a directional pad [nintendoage.com] . Did I fail?

Battlezone can't be played without the two sticks that mirror real-life tracked vehicle driving

Na naa, na na na na na na na na Katamari Damacy! (That's Japanese for "every console since 2000 has two sticks.") Plug your Xbox 360 controller into your PC's USB port, map the axes, and you're set.

Idiocy... (1)

blahplusplus (757119) | more than 2 years ago | (#36560892)

... it's not that you want the game to play as it was when you were a kid. When you were a KID you were at the beginning of game design, as game design advances in a genre or area your expectation bar moves higher. The real issue is that developers don't know or are too afraid of revamping old games. They are afraid of updating the design by what has been learned since the old games release. And quite frankly I think too many developers are out of touch and don't have it in them anymore and thats why we end up with graphics refreshes with the exact same old game template.

There's tonnes many fans would love to add to old games if they had the skills/got the chance. I often wonder what Chrono resurrection aand possible other fan remakes/spin offs would look like if it wasn't for the copyright nazi's.

http://www.opcoder.com/projects/chrono/ [opcoder.com]

Re:Idiocy... (1)

Hatta (162192) | more than 2 years ago | (#36561074)

When you were a KID you were at the beginning of game design, as game design advances in a genre or area your expectation bar moves higher

Or, when you were a kid you learned to like a certain style of gameplay, and game development grew away from that over time. In that case, it makes perfect sense to go back and play the great games you missed, rather than wasting time on games that aren't intended to give you that classic experience.

Re:Idiocy... (1)

blahplusplus (757119) | more than 2 years ago | (#36561370)

"Or, when you were a kid you learned to like a certain style of gameplay, and game development grew away from that over time. In that case, it makes perfect sense to go back and play the great games you missed, rather than wasting time on games that aren't intended to give you that classic experience."

There are many great old game designs that just don't have enough meat on them because the content/quality bar has been pushed up. Most old designs don't suffer from out-right bad design, rather they suffer from you having seen it all before, hence there is a need to add new ideas and mix them with the old. Old games suffer from you having seen it all before, not that their basic design is incorrect.

Re:Idiocy... (2)

Hatta (162192) | more than 2 years ago | (#36561912)

And there are a great many modern game designs that don't have enough meat on them because the content/quality bar has been pushed so low to appeal to the lowest common denominator. That seems to be the prevalent trend. e.g. where are the turn based RPGs where you make your own party? What happened to FPSs with maps [buzzfed.com] of any degree of complexity?

If anything modern games have fewer novel ideas, simply because it's all been tried before. Back in the 80s and early 90s there was so much new ground to tread. People tried things they wouldn't today. New games rehash (a banal subset of) old ideas, and throw a new coat of paint over it. Hell with that, I'd rather play something classic.

Re:Idiocy... (1)

rgmoore (133276) | more than 2 years ago | (#36562186)

And there are many old games that are still very playable because they did a great job of basic design and were able to crank up to a high enough difficulty to give anyone a real challenge. I think this is true of a lot of the classic arcade games. They're built more around reflexes and hand-eye coordination than thinking and planning. As long as they can't be beaten by memorizing and following a predictable series of moves, they can be just as challenging as they were when they first came out.

For the nostalgic power players of old (2)

wjcofkc (964165) | more than 2 years ago | (#36560904)

Funny for this just get posted. A few hours ago I was introduced to "Super Mario Bros. Crossover (Hacked!)" - I suggest the nostalgic among us give it a whirl. It's the original Super Mario Bros. except that you can play through the game as other 8 - bit Nintendo characters such Samus, Mega Man, and several others. The people who put this together did a bang up job. I blew through level 1-1 -> 7-4 in about an hour with one of the Contra guys. You get all of there weapons and attributes, the in game music even changes to accommodate the character. Anyway, I think Link and Contra guy are the most fun. If your missing the past, as I do, this is a fantastic way to relive it. It's free on the google chrome store. (I originally posted this as an AC - I've been posting enough the last couple years I decided I might as well log in)

Duke Nukem (1)

the_raptor (652941) | more than 2 years ago | (#36561066)

Stop making excuses for Duke Nukem Forever. It was just bad, the poor reaction to it had nothing to do with nostalgia.

I play plenty of old games (or remakes, or clones with the same mechanics) and find them just as good as I did when I was a kid. What the author is missing is the massive dopamine rush that some experiences produce and that you can never normally replicate (because your brain adapts, this is why junkies have to keep increasing their dose).

Re:Duke Nukem (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36561790)

I think what's missing from the discussion is that some old games are just boring crap, it's just that nobody cares enough to talk about them, and this is giving the impression that older gamers think that "all" old games were great and so it must be nostalgia that's speaking.

Meh, (1)

rsilvergun (571051) | more than 2 years ago | (#36561114)

I just finished playing through Quackshot, and I'm working my way through World of Illusion. I also just beat Super Metroid. Sure, I'm not the same person I used to be, but I can appreciate things I didn't notice when I was a kid. Like level design, beautiful sprite work, little touches like Donald Duck closing his eyes when he fires or the water lapping against Samas' feet....

The core of nostalgia (1)

Twinbee (767046) | more than 2 years ago | (#36561130)

Speaking about the perfect sonic game, here's one based on the old Sonic 1 game, but fully modernized in 3D - the new "Sonic Generations":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wuj-6T_ymqg [youtube.com]

They've even used the same music from Green Hill zone (which I still love today), and the orchestration is good, but I still prefer the original for various reasons (chorus section has the bass-line moving instead of the melody, giving more contrast etc.). Also the 3D on first glance looks great. But rasterization actually really spoils it. If this was fully-raytraced / globally illuminated, it would look a TON better, and much more likely to give the dreamlike feel that you would have gotten as a kid, but today instead of back then.

To even get a glimpse of that atmosphere from when you were a kid, you need detailed graphics, an I mean REALLY detailed stuff (and no, I don't mean realistic). Generations is great, but you bet you could get 1000x better.

I'm not saying playability isn't important, as it is, but a lot of the 'atmosphere' and nostalgia comes from the audio/visuals (and I would include even Space Invaders and Pacman here).

Re:The core of nostalgia (1)

RyuuzakiTetsuya (195424) | more than 2 years ago | (#36561732)

holy crap. I thought Sonic Rush Adventure was damn good(Never played Rush). That looks amazing.

I think CRT tubes had something to do with it. I still feel the same when I look at a classic game through an old CRT tube.

Maybe it's also the fact that I didn't grow cynical in my years...

I guess (2)

gaderael (1081429) | more than 2 years ago | (#36561136)

I've had just as much fun with Donkey Kong Returns as I had with the SNES series. Great game. Same goes for Mega Man 9 on the Wii Store. Bionic Commando Rearmed was good fun as well. It is possible to make games like they used to. You just have to look at the plethora of indie titles that are available on the Wii Store, XBLA, etc. Super Meat Boy anyone? That's Nintendo hard.

Elite (1)

Smivs (1197859) | more than 2 years ago | (#36561140)

Elite is alive and well, re-born as Oolite [oolite.org] . Cross platform, open source and very free, with an enthusiastic community of players and modders.

Achievement Unlocked (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36561164)

Today's games are riddled with dumb shit like that.

Stick with the old (1)

DemonGenius (2247652) | more than 2 years ago | (#36561172)

I have realized the same dilemma. My solution is to stick with the old consoles for those games that I have played in my childhood. It's amazing how fun it still is to play SMB1 on original hardware. Playing on original hardware for classics still beats emulation in terms of accuracy and nostalgia. Even though I know the NES cartridges need to be aligned and not blown, I still blow on them just for the hell of it. Classics that I never had a chance to play as a kid I buy on eBay nowadays. For newer consoles, I just stick to newer gems like Limbo on the Xbox 360 instead of going for remakes (except Perfect Dark since I don't want an N64). I never owned an Atari 2600, but I found myself buying one at a flea market and about 30+ games after that for dirt cheap. Many of those games are still entertaining to this day. One more thing I should mention is that young kids today go nuts for the old hardware more than you think. Break out the NES and they'll harass you to let them play with it forever.

Can Sonic retire? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36561292)

Many people want Sega to stop making Sonic games. Back in the late 80s Disney was able to mostly retire Mickey Mouse, keep him as the company mascot on merchandise but stop making cartoons based on him. They could do this because they had very popular new cartoons for both TV and theaters: Duck Tales, Rescue Rangers, Beauty and the Beast, The Lion King, etc. Can Sega come up with enough new franchises, or revive their other old ones, to the point that they don't need Sonic as a crutch anymore?

Re:Can Sonic retire? (1)

Darkness404 (1287218) | more than 2 years ago | (#36563164)

I don't think that Sega can retire Sonic because Sega doesn't want to take risks like every other game company. When was the last time we truly saw something innovative that

A) Worked

And most important B) made money.

For example: Okami was very innovative and a great game but sold poorly. On the other hand, Nintendo can put Mario in a game and it will sell based on the name alone. When creative games sell poorly and mass-produced games based on established names sell well, its no surprise that they all make cookie-cutter games, its the only way they can make a profit.

Nope nope nope (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36561312)

Remakes suck because the designers remove things that made the original great.

Persona was remade on the PSP, so they gutted the original soundtrack (one of the most memorable ones in a videogame) and replaced the entire thing with J-Rock/J-Hip-Hop. This was done out of some misguided sentiment of making the game more hip and youth friendly. People were disappointed across the board. Now with a sequel coming out, they held a press announcement _just_ to tell people the original soundtrack would be included.

Or look at the Silent Hill 2/3 HD remake. They are canning all the original voice work and re-hiring new voice actors because Konami is too cheap to pay the original VAs for re-using their work.

Contra 4 on DS came close to being a good remake, but had such excessive difficulty that it was impossible for anyone to enjoy even on the easiest setting. All the original Contra games were challenging but not hard for the sake of frustrating the player.

The biggest problem with remakes is that frequently nobody from the original teams are involved, and they are made by people new to the industry with almost zero experience. So you get people with good intentions but no guidance and no real skill. Compare this to the original games that were all made by industry veterans with years under their belt.

That's why remakes suck.

Re:Nope nope nope (1)

Zen Punk (785385) | more than 2 years ago | (#36564734)

Yeah, this sounds right. The new 2d sonic games don't work because the physics aren't right. Sonic doesn't have the same weight and movement as in the old games. If somebody could just be bothered to play the old games and attempt to replicate what was satisfying about the mechanics, there would be a solid foundation to build on.

Re:Nope nope nope (1)

andromeda1 (2218934) | more than 2 years ago | (#36565100)

The Persona remake is actually pretty good: coherent with the rest of the series, since they restored the setting and spell names, and it works great on the PSP. If you actually like the music in Persona 3/4 (which I do quite a bit), then you'll like the new music for Persona PSP. Other problems with the original have been fixed as well. I expect it was done with some of the original folks involved, as you suggest. Persona 2/3/4 are brilliant, and the two other versions of P3 - FES and P3P - are excellent as well. I have high hopes for P2: Innocent Sin on the PSP (not to mention Devil Survivor 2 on the DS.)

Tron Arcade (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36561422)

When I turned 30, my wife bought me a Tron arcade game for my birthday. That was 9 years ago, and not only do I still enjoy playing it, but so do my kids...my 12 year old is unquestionably the household master. I just recently got back from a trip to Colorado Springs - there's a famous classic arcade up there (actually in nearby Manitou Springs) that we all really enjoyed.

There is a pattern I see over and over again in art (and yes, video games are art...let's not get into that) - there is a rank presumption that the quality of art varies inversely with the restrictions placed on it, i.e., the freer art is of restriction, the better it will be. Obviously, there's a minima of freedom that has to be exceeded, but I've found it's almost never true - art thrives on barriers.

There's an artist, Vic Muniz, who has a great term for this - the "semiotic black market". When there are restrictions on art (Muniz is referring generally to political ones, though technological ones apply as well), the artist is forced to represent his ideas symbolically rather than directly. What better description of classic arcade games? A human mind is just as capable of investing a twelve pixel sprite with meaning as it is with a photo-realistic model.

Doubtful (1)

Greyfox (87712) | more than 2 years ago | (#36561440)

I'm quite happy to play games I grew up with on mame or if I happen to find an old arcade game while out and about. I can think of several titles (Final Fantasy, Suikodan and Star Ocean) that I'd buy again if they released updated versions of the games on new graphics engines and possibly revamped gameplay (Though not revamped to the current final fantasy combat engine. Maybe they could find one that sucks somewhat fewer goat balls.)

I don't know what your problem is, but please don't project onto me if you feel that it's more enjoyable these days to sit out on your porch and yell at kids to get off your lawn. I'm still happy to play a game, past or future.

Speaking as someone who's very jaded with games... (1)

Twinbee (767046) | more than 2 years ago | (#36561454)

I'm probably one of the more jaded people here when it comes to enjoying games. I rarely play them these days, as 'real life' gets in the way too much. Also, the atmosphere of games is WAY lower than when I was a kid. It's like having a weird dream, which has a strange kind of atmosphere, and then trying to explain that atmosphere to someone else - you can't do it (also similar to when you try to describe 'green' to a born-blind person). Hence nostalgia is incredibly difficult to pin down.

However I will say this, despite my pessimism and the way I usually find today's games utterly boring, I know that an INCREDIBLE game could be produced in theory. For a driving type game for example, it would have the physics of something like Stunt Car Racer, with the tight controls of Outrun, and the futuristic setting of F-Zero, Wipeout or STUN runner, with the variety and sometimes colour/clarity of say, Rainbow Islands, but a million times better than any of these. The game would be easy to master, and incredibly hard to complete with worldwide competitions taking place each day trying to beat the best time / get the furthest. There would always be something to do with your fingers to keep interest at every millisecond in the game (twitch gameplay to the max). The graphics would also be fully raytraced, with full global illumination, not the rasterization crap they use today, which always makes 3D graphics look 'cookie-cutter'-esque. It would be as popular as football if done right I reckon.

A while back, I made a spoof article [skytopia.com] and spoke about such a game. Look for 'Forward Inertia' which is described later on, and how it's compared to the dull and drab games which are churned out by their bucketloads with zero imagination today. Okay, that's a bit OTT, but not enough for me to feel a bit depressed about the situation.

X-COM (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36561492)

If they made the original X-COM with new graphics BUT with the old game play it would still kick the ass of 95% of the Black Ops-Uncharted-Battlefied-Halo shit out there.

Re:X-COM (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36562018)

  1. Start with OpenXCOM [ninex.info]
  2. Make new graphics
  3. ???
  4. Profit!

Quite false. (1)

Kaz Kylheku (1484) | more than 2 years ago | (#36562418)

Playing the real Lode Runner on a decent Apple II emulator is pretty much exactly the same to me.

I got sucked into it again a few months ago.

You can't blame poor classic game re-makes on irrelevant changes in life. They do actually suck, inherently.

Re:Quite false. (1)

UnknownSoldier (67820) | more than 2 years ago | (#36563204)

Lode Runner and Championship Lode Runner are gems. Hell, almost everything by BrÃderbund, such as Wings of Fury, or Spare Change are still fun games today.

Sadly, I still can't find a decent "remake" of Aquatron, or Gemstone Warrior ;-(

Ultima IV is still awesome (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36562452)

I played Ultima IV all the way through recently, not having been able to finish it in college. It was still totally awesome. Actually it was even better, since the emulator let me save snapshots -- that way if I died horribly I could reclaim my game. I think I didn't finish it before because without that, it would have been wayyy too much of a time commitment.

Dude, nobody could beat Labyrinth Zone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36562778)

Seriously, has anyone ever gotten past that level without emulation and savestates? And where I'm from, the one console and a copy of Sonic 1 was the only video game we had.

Pokemon FireRed and LeafGreen (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36564056)

was quite excellent

Rebuttal in 5 Words: New Super Mario Bros Wii (2)

UriahZ (952170) | more than 2 years ago | (#36564250)

Seriously, that game is exactly the game we all remembered, except better, and with epicly fun co-op.

Goldeneye64 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36565198)

Goldeneye64 is still as fun as it once was, actually more now.

Now i can play it wihout fear that my mom comes upstairs and screams at me that i should LEARN and not play "Killergames" (she is 8000 miles away now Haha)

We all grow up become disapointed old grumpy People. At one point i looked in the mirror and sayd. FU*K THAT!" go out and baught a N64^^ Still have a great time with it.

Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Sign up for Slashdot Newsletters
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...