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KDE 4.7 RC Is Here: GRUB2 Integration, KWin Mobile

timothy posted more than 3 years ago | from the less-unitary dept.

KDE 175

dkd903 writes "KDE 4.7 is almost here and brings along with it a number of features and performance improvements such as a better Dolphin with a faster file search, ability of KWin to run on Mobile devices, Grub2 integration in KDM and offline search support in the KDE virtual globe, Marble." Here's KDE's own announcement of the release candidate; the final release is planned for July 27. Reader jrepin quotes the KDE announcement: "With API, dependency and feature freezes in place, the KDE team's focus is now on fixing last-minute showstopper bugs and finishing translation and documentation that comes along with the releases."

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YES! NEW KDE! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36576492)

TWICE THE BLOAT WITH HALF THE USABILITY!

C'mon everybody, just use lxde and zsh and enjoy your linux experience instead of trying to ape something that was popular more than a decade ago.

Re:YES! NEW KDE! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36576520)

How come? The changes in this release will be invisible to most of the users. Looks more like polish to me.

Re:YES! NEW KDE! (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36576660)

Actually, KDE has had Polish language support since 1.0.

Re:YES! NEW KDE! (2)

Beelzebud (1361137) | more than 3 years ago | (#36576546)

How about you do what you want to do, and let others do what they want to do, troll?

Re:YES! NEW KDE! (2)

Ruede (824831) | more than 3 years ago | (#36576802)

he is not trolling, kde is getting bloated more and more. f.e. kmail. worked flawless before kde-sc 4.6 with 4.6 it is unusable due the semantic desktop bullshit that made things much slower... even on an SSD drive... well that happens when you add another layer (db) between the files and the userinterface.... fuck kde i am close to switching to something else... virtuose-t is doing something right now. eating lots of cpu%. what does it do? i dont know, what is it for? i dont know. what features or advantages do i have from this process? i dont know. sounds pretty much like windows...

Re:YES! NEW KDE! (3, Informative)

icebraining (1313345) | more than 3 years ago | (#36577064)

well that happens when you add another layer (db) between the files and the userinterface

Uh, adding a database often speeds up data access.
Of course, whether MySQL was a wise choice is debatable. Tracker, for example, uses SQLite.

The main problem seems to be Strigi, which is the file indexer, because it scans your whole drive adding metadata to the database. If you disable that it'll probably help immensely.

Re:YES! NEW KDE! (1)

c6gunner (950153) | more than 3 years ago | (#36577172)

It's worse than windows. I tried KDE for all of 3 days, on a laptop which had Windows 7 and Ubuntu (Gnome) already installed. It ran slower than Windows 7 in pretty much every task, and FAR slower than gnome.

When your GUI slows down a linux install to the point that even Windows seems speedy in comparison, you've REALLY fucked things up.

Re:YES! NEW KDE! (3, Informative)

Lord Kano (13027) | more than 3 years ago | (#36578252)

The OP may have been confrontational, but he wasn't trolling.

I switched to Trinity KDE because I hated KDE4.x so much. I just can't stand it. I actually kept using an old distro because I was unwilling to "upgrade" to KDE4.x, when I discovered the Trinity KDE project, it was such a relief. I was able to go to a much new distro but keep a user experience that didn't feel like I was using a big cell phone.

LK

Will Qt become owned by or part of KDE? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36576506)

As Qt is now orphaned, if KDE is the only user of it, will be owned or become part of KDE?

Personally, I moved away from KDE and Qt because of the lack of good isolation and depencies. Everything depended on everything, and Qt seemed to be a giant wrapper library for everything, not just UI.

But others like KDE.

Re:Will Qt become owned by or part of KDE? (2)

Talavis (906015) | more than 3 years ago | (#36576564)

Qt is orphaned? Since when? Have any kind of link for it as I must have missed that?

Re:Will Qt become owned by or part of KDE? (4, Insightful)

Beelzebud (1361137) | more than 3 years ago | (#36576582)

QT hasn't been orphaned.

Re:Will Qt become owned by or part of KDE? (1)

Kjella (173770) | more than 3 years ago | (#36578330)

Nope, but with where Nokia is going it must be up for adoption. Maybe not officially, but if you waved a few million dollars in that direction I think they're very ready to divest that part of their business. Already they've sold off the commercial licensing to Digia, so if they're not selling it, not putting in their own phones (maybe they'll finish shipping a phone or two, but certainly not on the roadmap) then why should they continue pouring millions into it? Their market message is less than stellar clear, to say the least.

Re:Will Qt become owned by or part of KDE? (1)

Beelzebud (1361137) | more than 3 years ago | (#36578742)

Yeah well after all that gibber jabber speculation, the fact remains that right now, QT is not orphaned........

Re:Will Qt become owned by or part of KDE? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36576684)

Last I checked Nokia was still supporting Qt. However it is a mildly interesting point to ponder what happens if the rumor mill is correct and they stop supporting it. More than likely the code forks at that point.

Yes it is true that Qt is not simply a UI toolkit.

Re:Will Qt become owned by or part of KDE? (4, Interesting)

Davorama (11731) | more than 3 years ago | (#36576776)

There are too many folks that use Qt to make large sums of money for it to go away.
It will find a good foster home and be well taken care of if it is ever actually orphaned.

NEW NAMES FOR GREAT SOFTWARE !! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36576518)

Mealworm !!

Guano !!

Pondscumsucker !!

HumanExcrement for Linux !!

FecesAndPissForYou 2.0 !!

and finally,

CmdrTaco Toilet Uh-Ohs !!

Re:NEW NAMES FOR GREAT SOFTWARE !! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36576612)

Guano is pretty good :)

Re:NEW NAMES FOR GREAT SOFTWARE !! (1)

Artifakt (700173) | more than 3 years ago | (#36577138)

But obviously a Gnome app.

Re:NEW NAMES FOR GREAT SOFTWARE !! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36577214)

No, that would be Gnuano

Meh (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36576534)

Linux is *still* for fags.

Re:Meh (1)

Beelzebud (1361137) | more than 3 years ago | (#36576552)

Which is why you hang out at slashdot and post in articles about Linux, right?

Who knows? (3, Funny)

overshoot (39700) | more than 3 years ago | (#36576596)

Maybe they even fixed some of the bugs. I can hope, anyway.

Re:Who knows? (1)

sconeu (64226) | more than 3 years ago | (#36576962)

You mean like the one where they write to the root directory, even if you're not root?

See https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=249217 [kde.org] .

Re:Who knows? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36577412)

Read the bug report, it occurs when configuration changes are made *as root*.

GRUB integration? (1)

gregbaker (22648) | more than 3 years ago | (#36576600)

Forgive my ignorance, but can anybody explain why my window manager needs to interface with my bootloader?

Re:GRUB integration? (4, Interesting)

Beelzebud (1361137) | more than 3 years ago | (#36576614)

You can boot in to a different distro without actually restarting the machine, with KDM.

Re:GRUB integration? (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36577514)

You can boot in to a different distro without actually restarting the machine, with KDM.

Close, you still need to restart but you can specify the distro you want to boot into from the restart dialog.

Re:GRUB integration? (1)

Osgeld (1900440) | more than 3 years ago | (#36578102)

or I could just boot into what I want the first time without the overhead, but that's just me

Re:GRUB integration? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36578640)

You can boot in to a different distro without actually restarting the machine, with KVM.

FTFY

Re:GRUB integration? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36576620)

It's actually somewhat useful.
It lets you restart directly into another grub menu selection from the kdm page.

Re:GRUB integration? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36576636)

Forgive my ignorance, but can anybody explain why my window manager needs to interface with my bootloader?

I wondered the same. Apparently, it allows you to use the KDE interface to reboot and choose which OS should be booted next.

Re:GRUB integration? (1)

MacGyver2210 (1053110) | more than 3 years ago | (#36576800)

But I have GRUB...it pops up on boot, and I can pick then. Why do I need KDE to choose before restart again?

Re:GRUB integration? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36576956)

I suppose if you want to sit around while it shuts down, POSTs, and loads grub so you can catch it during that five-second window, you can go ahead. I would prefer to click a button and then walk away.

Re:GRUB integration? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36576998)

You don't. Others may find it useful. It doesn't cause you any problem to have this feature, while others may benefit from it. So, why are you complaining?

Re:GRUB integration? (1)

pinkeen (1804300) | more than 3 years ago | (#36576644)

It doesn't. But the less technically inclined users, they can use a clicky interface to configure it.

Re:GRUB integration? (1)

pinkeen (1804300) | more than 3 years ago | (#36576666)

I didn't read TFS thoroughly enough - KDM (which is the login manager) integrates with grub2. Probably it means that you can do some fancy stuff like tell it to reboot to freebsd, windows or osx (if you have multi boot).

Re:GRUB integration? (1)

dkd903 (1156359) | more than 3 years ago | (#36576698)

I didn't read TFS thoroughly enough - KDM (which is the login manager) integrates with grub2. Probably it means that you can do some fancy stuff like tell it to reboot to freebsd, windows or osx (if you have multi boot).

Yes. That is true on a Multi-Boot system :-)

Re:GRUB integration? (1)

ChunderDownunder (709234) | more than 3 years ago | (#36578872)

well if grub2 booted directly to kdm, it could provide an OS-independent login manager, passing authentication credentials into the selected OS.

Re:GRUB integration? (2)

ilguido (1704434) | more than 3 years ago | (#36576656)

Because KDM is not a window manager.

Re:GRUB integration? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36576692)

Your window manager? Since when is KDM a window manager? It isn't, and it looks like both you and all those that replied to your comment before I did haven't realized this. KDM is a login interface (the kind of thing that allows you to login, select the user that you login as, and the type of session that you'll be starting). And it's useful to have it interface with your bootloader because it allows you to modify the entry selected by default for the next reboot. Not that it's a big deal, but hey, it doesn't hurt to have it and maybe some users will find it useful.

Re:GRUB integration? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36576888)

First of all, it's not a window manager, it's a desktop environment.

Secondly, it's so you can do this [ompldr.org] and walk away instead of sitting around while your computer thinks about how to be alive.

Re:GRUB integration? (1)

Narishma (822073) | more than 3 years ago | (#36577136)

It's not a desktop environment either, it's a display manager, the thing that allows you to log in, choose your session, shutdown and reboot and other stuff.

Um, shouldn't the API freeze take place at 4.0 (1)

Burz (138833) | more than 3 years ago | (#36576642)

...and stay that way until 5.0?

Re:Um, shouldn't the API freeze take place at 4.0 (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36576680)

...and stay that way until 5.0?

You don't need to keep the API completely frozen to keep it compatible.

Re:Um, shouldn't the API freeze take place at 4.0 (2)

Verunks (1000826) | more than 3 years ago | (#36576700)

if you add new functions the library stays binary compatible, so if you try to run a program compiled for 4.0 and you have 4.7 it will run without problems

Devices/network shares listed in fstab (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36576676)

Does it finally provide a method using the GUI to mount/unmount entries listed in fstab?

Re:Devices/network shares listed in fstab (0)

MacGyver2210 (1053110) | more than 3 years ago | (#36576816)

mount-gtk is pretty effective. Hasn't let me down yet.

http://mount-gtk.sourceforge.net/ [sourceforge.net]

Re:Devices/network shares listed in fstab (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36577598)

the default device manager plasmoid does this. open the settings, and you can select which devices it displays.

Meanwhile ... (-1)

aliquis (678370) | more than 3 years ago | (#36576734)

... Microsoft actually does something innovative and maybe even goes a step further than Apple when it comes to user interfaces:
http://www.osnews.com/story/24811/Microsoft_Demos_Windows_8_New_Interface [osnews.com]

If it's good I don't know. I like how the MeeGo for surf pads looked. Guess Playbook was ok to.

I think KDE looks boring and the applications such as Amarok look so bloated with.. Well.. Everything :D

Re:Meanwhile ... (0, Troll)

zixxt (1547061) | more than 3 years ago | (#36576886)

To each his or her own then. Windows will always be the red headed step child of UI design in my opinion. Windows is the definition of putting lipstick on a pig.

Re:Meanwhile ... (1)

aliquis (678370) | more than 3 years ago | (#36579082)

Personally I haven't used either Vista or Windows 7 (or Windows 8...), but I've used DOS, AmigaOS at the time of Windows 3.11 and Windows 95 and later XP.

But even if the same company made them I'm able to comprehend that Windows 7 isn't DOS and things can change over the decades.

Back when I started using KDE it seemed to do anything it could to look like and act just like Windows 95 (KDE 2) (interface.)

Re:Meanwhile ... (1)

Cinder6 (894572) | more than 3 years ago | (#36577748)

Windows 8, to me, looks like a perfect example of change for the sake of change.

"a better Dolphin"?? (0)

ajparr (1366929) | more than 3 years ago | (#36576742)

What ever happened to the idea of replacing dolphin with a frickin' shark and adding a frickin' laser beam to it?!?

Mobile devices (4, Interesting)

some_guy_88 (1306769) | more than 3 years ago | (#36576874)

They keep talking about mobile devices. Is this just theoretical or are people actually running kde on real phones/tablets?

Re:Mobile devices (1)

Windwraith (932426) | more than 3 years ago | (#36577040)

Seems there is people using it on real mobile devices (and netbooks), but I'd rather have a good desktop environment than yet another project parasitized by the mobile trends.
I hate seeing so many signs of the desktop being abandoned in favor of mobile toys. (Let's face it, most of the mobile stuff out there is a toy you can only do so much with...unlike a real computer).

Re:Mobile devices (2)

some_guy_88 (1306769) | more than 3 years ago | (#36577118)

I'd rather have a good desktop environment than yet another project parasitized by the mobile trends

Yeah I get that, but IMO a single framework that I can learn (Qt/kde) that allows me to build desktop and mobile apps is quite compelling. And qt is a good framework. It's some of the best competition out there for .NET so I want to see it succeed.

Also, recently, kde4 has become a good desktop environment. It has come a long way and is completely usable in it's current form.. assuming of course that you ignore the utter bullshit which is nepomuk and striggi.. :)

Re:Mobile devices (2)

Windwraith (932426) | more than 3 years ago | (#36577348)

It is my DE of choice indeed, although I use few of the included apps. While I love the system management and the window manager/plasma are tremendously good for me, the apps are extremely lackluster. Moving away to design tablet-y interfaces while those apps are still an eyesore is beyond me.

Also the latest updates (considering the amount of time between each) have been quite...lackluster, not fixing certain "little and rare but crippling" bugs and not improving upon things that started somewhere between 4.0 and 4.5 . Brainstorm also seems to lose importance as version numbers rise.

Also, I don't care about Marble, and I don't think improvements to it should be "release notes". (that's another thing, try to find changelogs that aren't either extremely simple or extremely detailed...). Kate also has significant improvements this update, but no one but Kate developers mention them at all. Kate is much more of a real tool than Marble. Who is writing the release notes?

So yeah, less effort on Nepomuk/Strigi (that everyone but the main devs seem to hate, at least I haven't read or heard anything positive not coming from a KDE dev) and interfaces for toys and more visible, non-refactoring work so people can stop saying KDE sucks every time.
I might not agree but the fact that public opinion didn't change in the slightest must mean something.

Re:Mobile devices (4, Informative)

KugelKurt (908765) | more than 3 years ago | (#36577998)

Moving away to design tablet-y interfaces while those apps are still an eyesore is beyond me.

Not the same people work on all apps and interfaces.
The mobile work is mostly done by people paid by Nokia, open-slx, and basysKom.

I don't care about Marble, and I don't think improvements to it should be "release notes".

Pre-release notes are not as detailed as the final notes.
KDE releases three software bundles every 6 months: Plasma Workspaces, Applications, and Frameworks.
In the final release, each bundle gets its own release announcement. Marble in one of the most active KDE Applications and when the devs work hard, they deserve to be mentioned in the (pre-)release notes, be it Marble, Kate, or even some game.

Kate also has significant improvements this update, but no one but Kate developers mention them at all.

Nobody is hindering any Kate dev to extend the release notes draft on KDE's Etherpad instance. It's open to edit for anyone. I look at the draft for the final release announcements at this moment. Heck, even the comments sidebar say that another application than Marble should get spotlight in the upcoming announcement. So far nobody stepped forward with an improved application that was not featured in the KDE Apps 4.6 announcement (even Kate was featured last time http://www.kde.org/announcements/4.6/applications.php [kde.org] )
Looking at http://kate-editor.org/ [kate-editor.org] I see no posts mentioning new features for 4.7. There is a quite extensive one for 4.6 but not for 4.7. There are some articles about current GSoC progress but those won't show up before 4.8.

Who is writing the release notes?

The ones who volunteer to do it, like with any other community project.
Feel free to extend release notes drafts yourself.

So yeah, less effort on Nepomuk/Strigi

KDE is a community project mostly made up of volunteers. You cannot force a volunteer to work on something he doesn't want to. Though you can hire one of the firms that do business around KDE to improve the things you prefer.

that everyone but the main devs seem to hate, at least I haven't read or heard anything positive not coming from a KDE dev

I'm not a KDE developer and I like Nepomuk.
GNOME/Tracker developers also like Nepomuk which is the reason they've adopted it long ago.

more visible, non-refactoring work so people can stop saying KDE sucks every time.

Haters will hate and are the vocal group. I happen to like KDE.

"Better" Dolphin? (3, Interesting)

UbuntuniX (1126607) | more than 3 years ago | (#36576954)

What was wrong with Konqueror? It may not be the best web browser, but it's the best file manager I've ever used. Dolphin, however, is a load of crap, in my opinion.

Re:"Better" Dolphin? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36576986)

You can still set Konqueror as your default file manager.

Re:"Better" Dolphin? (2)

Windwraith (932426) | more than 3 years ago | (#36577362)

For me the ultimate file manager in KDE is Krusader. Give it a go if you like two-pane approaches.

Re:"Better" Dolphin? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36578090)

Agreed. If you use KDE and you need an advanced file manager, try Krusader.

Re:"Better" Dolphin? (1)

GnuAge (528559) | more than 3 years ago | (#36577668)

At least when you open terminal emulator at the bottom of dolphin it stays synced with the directory you switch to with the GUI. In konqueror is stays in the folder you were in when you first opened it, you have to manually 'cd' or re-open the terminal emulator to get it to be in your current directory. I'd use dolphin almost exclusively, but there is no way to split the right file viewing area in to more than two vertical panes, konqueror allows you to create as many horizontal and vertical panes as you need. The result is that I have to use dolphin for any work that requires much use of the terminal and konqueror for heavy file management.

And for me only recently did either dolphin or konqueror begin to read meta-data for SOME files (e.g. some mp3 tags, image file dimensions, camera info, etc.)

Konqueror 3.5x is still far and away the best file manager ever, the terminal emulator worked properly, meta-data worked perfectly, you could even edit music tags from the file manager. In the meantime KDE4 has a new tags/comments functionality that I wonder if ANYONE ever uses, but I wouldn't know if it would come in handy because the first thing I do in a new install is disable the Nepomuck Semantic desktop search shit which completely lugs my machines and NEVER finishes indexing my admittedly largish file system, even when the database begins to fill entire partitions.

Re:"Better" Dolphin? (1)

KugelKurt (908765) | more than 3 years ago | (#36578174)

Konqueror 3.5x is still far and away the best file manager ever, the terminal emulator worked properly, meta-data worked perfectly, you could even edit music tags from the file manager. In the meantime KDE4 has a new tags/comments functionality that I wonder if ANYONE ever uses, but I wouldn't know if it would come in handy because the first thing I do in a new install is disable the Nepomuck Semantic desktop search shit which completely lugs my machines and NEVER finishes indexing my admittedly largish file system, even when the database begins to fill entire partitions.

Nepomuk doesn't search anything. Strigi does. Nepomuk works without Strigi.
The Konqueror 3.5 developers became largely inactive for whatever reason. The file browsing part is now almost exclusively developed by the Dolphin guys who do not care much for Konqueror. (Such things can happen in a volunteer effort.)

KDE vs Gnome (1)

rueger (210566) | more than 3 years ago | (#36576992)

This may devolve into a vi/emacs debate, but I'll ask anyways.

I'm running Ubuntu, and and quite happy with Gnome (having quickly borfed Unity). What could KDE offer that might convince me to try it out?

It doesn't have (1)

Das Auge (597142) | more than 3 years ago | (#36577018)

The nice thing about Kubuntu is that it doesn't have Unity as the default window manager.

I'm still on 10.10. When I upgrade, it's going to be to Xubuntu. If Conical continues to make poor decisions, I'll move to Mint (a distro based directly on Debian with ).

Re:It doesn't have (1)

KugelKurt (908765) | more than 3 years ago | (#36577182)

The nice thing about Kubuntu is that it doesn't have Unity as the default window manager.

Unity isn't a window manager. It's a workspace that uses the Compiz window manager (and can't use anything else).

Re:KDE vs Gnome (1)

Noughmad (1044096) | more than 3 years ago | (#36577056)

- It looks nice.
- Plasma and plasmoids (webcomics, twitter, system monitors and much more on the desktop)
- It's configurable.

Some of the apps are better than Gnome equivalents (KTorrent, Amarok, KDevelop are the main ones I use), some are worse, but that doesn't really matter since you can freely mix both. However, while KDE/Qt programs look good on Gnome, Gnome/Gtk apps still don't look quite the same on KDE. The oxygen-gtk theme helps here, but you can still notice the difference.

Re:KDE vs Gnome (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36577444)

However, while KDE/Qt programs look good on Gnome, Gnome/Gtk apps still don't look quite the same on KDE. The oxygen-gtk theme helps here, but you can still notice the difference.

Give QtCurve a try, it's a style for Qt/KDE and theme for GTK that look identical (and can be configured from the KDE control panel).

Re:KDE vs Gnome (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36577848)

You missed the no, 1 reason KDE is better than Gnome, its integrated from release 0.1

--
Teun

Re:KDE vs Gnome (3, Interesting)

Beelzebud (1361137) | more than 3 years ago | (#36577060)

Which version of Gnome are you using? Right now, KDE4 is much more stable, and customizable than Gnome3. However if you're looking at Gnome2, I'd say it still beats out KDE4 in the "just works" department.

If I were choosing between the 3, it would look like this: Gnome 2 > KDE4 > Gnome 3

That being said, I'm using neither. When Gnome 3 replaced Gnome 2 in the Arch Linux repository, I switched to XFCE4, and haven't looked back since.

Re:KDE vs Gnome (4, Insightful)

Jahava (946858) | more than 3 years ago | (#36577110)

This may devolve into a vi/emacs debate, but I'll ask anyways. I'm running Ubuntu, and and quite happy with Gnome (having quickly borfed Unity). What could KDE offer that might convince me to try it out?

Well, we can argue better this and more refined that until we're blue in the face. Bottom line is that KDE offers a wholly-different perspective on what a Linux desktop user interface can do. Minimally, it's worth taking a look at, if only to broaden your horizons and solidify your preferences.

Personally, I find KDE to be a much more polished, integrated, and comprehensive suite than GNOME. It's snappy, sexy, and highly-configurable. In terms of appearance, KDE definitely has more of a stylistic Mac OSX-like approach and graphic set, though that's also highly-configurable. In fact, KDE's UI is so versatile that I could use KDE to recreate a default GNOME desktop without much effort. The applications tend to favor configurability over simplicity (which seems to be the opposite of much of GNOME's design choices). I can fine-tune most KDE applications to my personal, picky standards. Due to KDE4's kwin window manager rewrite, compositing (3D) effects are built into KDE's core, and are much more seamless than GNOME2's (although GNOME3 has followed suit).

Now, KDE has quite an advanced suite of applications that they bring to the table. However, keep in mind that almost every KDE application will run just fine under GNOME, and vice-versa. You can try almost any KDE application within GNOME should you find one you like (for example, I definitely prefer KDE's Konsole terminal over GNOME's gnome-terminal. The opposite is also true - any GNOME application will work just fine under KDE. You don't have to choose one over the other, though each is designed around and better-integrated with its native environment. Another winner is KDE's Amarok, which has long-held my personal favor as the best available audio player anywhere.

That said, I highly recommend giving it a shot. If you're using Ubuntu, you can try it with no risk by just installing the kubuntu-desktop and kde-full packages and choosing KDE as your window manager at login. It's worth a few days' trial to find out what you truly like.

Re:KDE vs Gnome (1)

rueger (210566) | more than 3 years ago | (#36577326)

Installing right now... like I need more ways to waste my time... :)

I'm finding that the less I use Windows, the less I use Windows, if you know what I mean...

Re:KDE vs Gnome (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36577886)

I'm finding that the less I use Windows, the less I use Windows, if you know what I mean...

Now that's a signature :)

--
Teun

Re:KDE vs Gnome (1)

Fallingcow (213461) | more than 3 years ago | (#36577330)

Personally, I find KDE to be a much more polished, integrated, and comprehensive suite than GNOME.

I agree--and it's why every time I've tried KDE I've abandoned it and gone back to XFCE or Gnome after a few days.

"Ugh, kmail sucks, I'm gonna use Thunderbird... KOffice still blows, gotta set it to open files with (Open/Libre)Office instead. Konqueror? Fuck no, Firefox or Chromium or Opera, anything but that piece of crap. Amarok is so damn slow and bloated, need to find another player, not many QT options, guess I'll use a GTK solution..."

And so on, until I'm barely using any QT apps and almost no apps at all that integrate well with KDE, and all the while KDE seems to be mocking me for not using its integrated apps, most of which I hate.

If you like its default apps, fine. If not, all that work to make a tightly integrated DE and apps is just a bunch of useless bloat and features that only half-work if you don't do things exactly the way the devs want you to. I don't even like any of its competitors that much, and I really want to like KDE because it looks nice and has a few nice features that the others don't, but it's hard to justify using it if you don't run a single k* app.

Re:KDE vs Gnome (1)

Teun (17872) | more than 3 years ago | (#36577914)

Weird, I feel very much the same when I test Gnome, bad to no integration, hard to impossible to configure.

Yes people have different needs and views of the world...

--
Teun

Re:KDE vs Gnome (1)

KugelKurt (908765) | more than 3 years ago | (#36578248)

Personally, I use LibreOffice with KDE integration and Firefox with KDE integration.
LibreOffice-KDE doesn't even use GTK because its own VCL toolkit only optionally interfaces with GTK.
That said, I'm pretty impressed with current Alphas of Calligra (KOffice's successor). Ever since Nokia invests in it for MeeGo (contributing a smartphone GUI as well as vastly improving file compatibility among other improvements) I have had only one RTF file not reading properly in mine (granted: limited) testing of Calligra Words.
Rekonq became a very good web browser, too, in recent months.

Re:KDE vs Gnome (1)

metamatic (202216) | more than 3 years ago | (#36578250)

I agree--and it's why every time I've tried KDE I've abandoned it and gone back to XFCE or Gnome after a few days.

[...] If not, all that work to make a tightly integrated DE and apps is just a bunch of useless bloat and features that only half-work if you don't do things exactly the way the devs want you to.

Last time I checked, KDE 4 had lower resource usage than GNOME, so the "bloat" isn't a reason to go back to GNOME.

Re:KDE vs Gnome (1)

Jahava (946858) | more than 3 years ago | (#36578458)

Personally, I find KDE to be a much more polished, integrated, and comprehensive suite than GNOME.

I agree--and it's why every time I've tried KDE I've abandoned it and gone back to XFCE or Gnome after a few days.

"Ugh, kmail sucks, I'm gonna use Thunderbird... KOffice still blows, gotta set it to open files with (Open/Libre)Office instead. Konqueror? Fuck no, Firefox or Chromium or Opera, anything but that piece of crap. Amarok is so damn slow and bloated, need to find another player, not many QT options, guess I'll use a GTK solution..."

And so on, until I'm barely using any QT apps and almost no apps at all that integrate well with KDE, and all the while KDE seems to be mocking me for not using its integrated apps, most of which I hate.

If you like its default apps, fine. If not, all that work to make a tightly integrated DE and apps is just a bunch of useless bloat and features that only half-work if you don't do things exactly the way the devs want you to. I don't even like any of its competitors that much, and I really want to like KDE because it looks nice and has a few nice features that the others don't, but it's hard to justify using it if you don't run a single k* app.

My KDE experience usually involves a good number of GTK applications, too. For example, my core browser is Google Chrome or Firefox (both GTK), I use Thunderbird for e-mail, and I definitely use exclusively LibreOffice. KDE is not an all-or-none decision ... you can (and should) pick applications based on how they work, not whether or not they were developed by the same working group.

Now, that said, much of KDE is under active development, and this is the real deal. It's worth retrying KDE applications every now and then to see how they are doing. For example:

  • rekonq, a Konqueror-like browser built on Webkit, is actually pretty damned usable. Not compatible enough to be an only browser, but adequate for most things. If browsers weren't so central, I'd probably use it a lot more.
  • kmail has made significant integration and feature-set advances in the last three KDE versions. The whole KDE PIM [kde.org] suite has, actually. That team deserves a pat on the back; if I actually used a PIM application (instead of GMail's web interface) I would definitely use it.
  • kopete, KDE's IM client, is great. It has definitely surpassed Pidgin for a while in my book.
  • The koffice ... er, Calligra Suite [calligra-suite.org] team has been doing a tremendous job. It's one of the fastest-advancing open-source product that I know of, and each release brings it more into mainstream. I eagerly await the day they gain the full LibreOffice feature set, as I feel their design choices, UI, and approach are all superior. They just aren't there yet, last I checked.

All of these apps are more or less interchangeable though. You can use them just fine on GNOME. The core KDE experience is (in my opinion) kwin [wikipedia.org] , the KDE Plasma Desktop [kde.org] (and associated Plasma widgets), the Dolphin File Browser [kde.org] , Nepomuk [semanticdesktop.org] , and the KDE System Settings Suite [kde.org] . These are the core KDE features that one would choose to use. One can use primarily GNOME applications on top of these technologies and still be subscribed to the KDE user experience.

Re:KDE vs Gnome (1)

KugelKurt (908765) | more than 3 years ago | (#36577140)

If you need convincing to even try something out, you're too close minded anyway.

Re:KDE vs Gnome (1, Troll)

rueger (210566) | more than 3 years ago | (#36577434)

No, just have limited time for trying out new stuff when what I have is working quite well.

Re:KDE vs Gnome (2)

KugelKurt (908765) | more than 3 years ago | (#36577760)

No, just have limited time for trying out new stuff when what I have is working quite well.

If you have enough time to waste for Slashdot, you have enough time to try a live CD (either native or in VirtualBox).

Re:KDE vs Gnome (1)

_Sprocket_ (42527) | more than 3 years ago | (#36577768)

I find it to be less of a reason to try something out and more looking for insight from others. I can look at a toolbox and bang around with a few tools on my own. But I might overlook the finer points of a particular tool. If someone has a better understanding of those tools and can point out some great uses, then that will certainly give me something to look out for when poking around on my own. I may not find things to my liking. But hopefully I won't be missing something that I would have found really useful.

Re:KDE vs Gnome (1)

KugelKurt (908765) | more than 3 years ago | (#36578272)

I find it to be less of a reason to try something out and more looking for insight from others. I can look at a toolbox and bang around with a few tools on my own. But I might overlook the finer points of a particular tool.

If he wanted to have that, he wouldn't have asked to be convinced to even try it. He'd try it any maybe ask here what the users' favourite features are.

Re:KDE vs Gnome (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36577278)

If you want to see what KDE can really do, try an OpenSUSE live CD with KDE. It's pretty well accepted that OpenSUSE has the best KDE implementation, in terms of overall integration and functionality. A live disk means no installation and no hassle to give it a try.

Re:KDE vs Gnome (1)

lee1 (219161) | more than 3 years ago | (#36577308)

I'm running dwm on Ubuntu and no desktop environment. What do either KDE or Gnome offer that might entice me to switch?

Re:KDE vs Gnome (1)

NNKK (218503) | more than 3 years ago | (#36577468)

Neither KDE nor Gnome are worth using anymore. Their ongoing decline is part of what made me a Mac user in 2005, and it just keeps getting worse. One has no clue what "stability" means, and the other is actively and proudly user-hostile.

Re:KDE vs Gnome (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36577850)

I think XFCE is the only worthy desktop left....

Re:KDE vs Gnome (2)

Wheely (2500) | more than 3 years ago | (#36578162)

This!

Did exactly the same. Was a KDE user since before 1.0. I think it was KDE Beta 2 where I started. KDE 4.0 changed things for me. Why put up with all the worst aspects of a OSX like UI without the easy hardware configuration. May as well run OSX. SO now all my machines are Macs. I dont think OSX is as good as KDE 3.5 on Linux but its UI is only about as crappy as KDE4.X but I get to plug bits of hardware in without thinking too much about it. A real shame.

Re:KDE vs Gnome (1)

devent (1627873) | more than 3 years ago | (#36578018)

If you are happy with Gnome, stay with Gnome.
For myself, I like Kate, Kile, Dolphin, Kaffeine, Amarok, KOrganizer, Klipper, Kmail, Yakuage, Konsole, KTorrent. I like the plasma desktop and I like the 3D effects. I like the full customization of KDE, but I'm only using maybe 5% of that, the rest are still the default settings, but it's a good feeling that if I need it I can change it. And I like the various plasma widgets, like battery, knetworkmanager, printer applet, device notifier. But I'm a really conservative desktop user, I don't have my desktop full of widgets and I don't use the activities.

Re:KDE vs Gnome (1)

salesgeek (263995) | more than 3 years ago | (#36578834)

Here is why I continue to use KDE:

* Customization is encouraged and is not hid from the end user. Don't like a key binding? change it. Don't like the default start menu? Change it. Want a new action when you right click? Write a quick bash script (or whatever your scripting language of choice is) and a desktop resource file and you can select files, right click and do what you want. You can even change how your desktop works... want files on it? OK. Want news, twitter and weather? OK. Want nothing? Fine. Want giant fisher-price looking app launch icons? OK, you can do that (it's not my thing... but hey, it's choice). It's up to you.

* File Management in KDE is vastly superior to every other desktop, Mac and Windows included. KIO allows you to open many different services (think ftp, scp, webdav, imap, your favorite vcs, pop3, and a metric ton more) as you would a local folder - just add protocol://user:pass@domain.com/some/folder and you are there. Processes like moving files are not modal, so you can tell KDE to move 500 files and continue working without waiting for the file move to complete. There are three very good file managers, Konqueror (kitchen sink - like Windows Explorer), Dolphin (modern file manager only) and Krusader (old school Norton Commander style) to choose from.

* The file open/save dialog is useful.

* Konsole, the KDE terminal app is awesome and very well integrated with the desktop and file management features. (f4 opens a terminal window in the file managers)

* KDE's notification system works very well, and allows you to do useful stuff with notifications... like running scripts when certain events happen.

KDE isn't for everyone... you really do have to spend some time getting to know KDE and reading some documentation to really get the most from it. It's definitely not for the "I want my phone to be a damn phone, not a GPS, camera, music player and video game system" or the "I want my computer to have TIG welded, permanent training wheels" crowd.

Rapidly Rising Minor Version Numbers... (2)

UltraZelda64 (2309504) | more than 3 years ago | (#36577696)

KDE 4.2 ... 4.3 ... 4.4 ... 4.5 ...4.6 ... and we're already approaching 4.7. Does this mean a major update, KDE 5, is coming sooner than might be expected? If so, I hope it's just a logical update instead of a massive overhaul like KDE4 was... it was absolutely horrible at first, but now it's just getting good. I'd hate to see the KDE3 -> KDE4 cycle all over again. Hopefully they slow down and just start incrementing the next number to the right, or they go up to and past 4.10 (though in the project's history it doesn't seem like it's gone that far before in version numbering). Oh well, could be worse--it could be like Chrome and now Firefox.

Re:Rapidly Rising Minor Version Numbers... (2)

Atriqus (826899) | more than 3 years ago | (#36577904)

KDE 4.2 ... 4.3 ... 4.4 ... 4.5 ...4.6 ... and we're already approaching 4.7. Does this mean a major update, KDE 5, is coming sooner than might be expected?

I don't think one implies the other. KDE reaching 4.7 has more to do with the fact that they consistently release about every 6 months, and 4.0 was released about three and a half years ago. I wouldn't read any more into the numbers than that.

Re:Rapidly Rising Minor Version Numbers... (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36578042)

Yes, although KDE 4.8 is still planned, there is talk about a KDE 5 now. However, it's not going to be a big rewrite like last time (mostly thanks to Qt 5 not being a big rewrite, like last time), but will instead just be a cleanup of current APIs and removing some old cruft from from the early days of KDE 4.0. Most of the currently used and working code will be left alone, with perhaps a bugfix here and there.

All in all, it sounds like it'll be a much smoother transition than KDE3 to KDE4 was.

Re:Rapidly Rising Minor Version Numbers... (1)

KugelKurt (908765) | more than 3 years ago | (#36578650)

There is no KDE5 and there will never be: http://vizzzion.org/blog/2011/06/there-is-no-kde5/ [vizzzion.org]
With Qt 5 approaching in 2012 and provided the world doesn't end that year, we'll see KDE Frameworks 5.0 relatively soon. According to current rough estimates posted on mailing lists likely the winter (January) release 2013 will make the advent of KDE Frameworks 5.0. So far I didn't read of any plans to shift away from KDE's usual 6 months release cycle and Summer 2012 should be too early.

That said, I'm not aware of any plans to dump Plasma Workspaces or KDE Applications to 5.0 as well. They don't guaranty any ABI stability and can stay with 4.x version numbers until they make an actual big transition instead of just adopting a newer Qt.

All they need now is (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36577770)

...all they need now is a real graphical designer and a usability expert to help them with the UI.

The KDE UI is way, way too busy. It's too busy for its own good. Technically it's the best, it has the best components and everything but it just unfortunately looks like 1980s.

Less text, less icons. If you need to have icons, make them BIG. Reduce the visible options. Don't put a border on something just because you can.

And make sure the color match!!! No red-blue, no red-green, no ...

Fix those things for starters.

Re:All they need now is (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36577984)

Huh, big icons?

That's so Windows noob, people that leave the default Windows Explorer with hidden extensions, no detail and just BIG icons in a single frame.

They don't even know how to enable the split display with the directory tree on the left, only idiots can live with such a system.

I prefer the Dolphin way where I see the various devices and can do a split view by simply pressing F3.
Or pressing F4 and getting a terminal in the directory I'm at, just brilliant.

--
Teun

Re:All they need now is (2)

KugelKurt (908765) | more than 3 years ago | (#36578024)

Less text, less icons. If you need to have icons, make them BIG. Reduce the visible options.

Why should the KDE community mimic GNOME? GNOME exists already. There is no point in acting like GNOME with GNOME still very active.
Plasma Desktop and KDE Apps are targeted towards a different audience.

Re:All they need now is (1)

UltraZelda64 (2309504) | more than 3 years ago | (#36578378)

Less text, less icons. If you need to have icons, make them BIG. Reduce the visible options. Don't put a border on something just because you can.

I don't think I would want to use *your* ideal version of KDE4. Less text... fewer icons... larger icons? Nope, I'll pass. I don't want ridiculously oversized icons like so many environments are going for these days (ie. for netbooks) wasting space that could be better used with added functionality. Less text is a disaster because text can say much more at a quick glance than a little icon usually can (unless you're completely illiterate), and combined with less icons... well, you're heading down a path of destroying all functionality (see: GNOME).

That is not so say that KDE is perfect, because it's not. But if you want those things, go use GNOME 3 or Unity--or hell, even KDE4's Plasma Netbook (they're all fine for some uses, including those weak computers with little screens like netbooks). Meanwhile I'll stay with Xfce, a plain old KDE4 Plasma Desktop, GNOME 2, LXDE, or whatever else is functional and doesn't waste space on "BIG" (as you put it) icons while providing fewer accessible functions.

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