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Developers Defecting From BlackBerry

Soulskill posted more than 2 years ago | from the developers-in-motion dept.

Blackberry 163

jfruhlinger writes "Mobile app developers who build for multiple platforms need to figure out how to conserve their resources somehow, and many are choosing to do so by not bothering to build apps for BlackBerry phones. It's a combination of declining market share and the general difficulty of building apps for the BlackBerry platform, one developer told Bloomberg: 'RIM brought in a touchscreen and mixed it with a thumbwheel, a keyboard and shortcut keys, it made it really difficult and expensive to develop across devices.'"

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163 comments

Wait a second, (1, Insightful)

MyFirstNameIsPaul (1552283) | more than 2 years ago | (#36589020)

You mean to tell me that developers have been making apps for BlackBerry all this time? I coulda' swore that every time I saw an app that looked really cool it was only available for Android or iPhone. I can't even get that Angry Ducklings app that everyone is singing about. [youtu.be]

Re:Wait a second, (4, Insightful)

PCM2 (4486) | more than 2 years ago | (#36589340)

I haven't had a BlackBerry for a while now, but if I remember right, I may have kept an SSH client on there, and I think once I downloaded an Infocom player, just for fun. But overall, I just never considered downloading apps to be part of the BlackBerry experience. Maybe that's why I find the "DOODZ, WHERE DA APPS AT??" attitude of a lot of iPhone/Android users a little baffling. To me, BlackBerry's software was well-designed and reliable, and it allowed me to do pretty much everything I expect a communications device to do, so I couldn't really picture what else I'd need to downlaod. But then again, I guess to me, a mobile phone is something that spends most of its time in your pocket. That doesn't seem to be how a lot of phone users see it.

Re:Wait a second, (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 2 years ago | (#36589398)

Because these are not mobile phones, they are mobile computers that just happen to also offer phone service. Mine is used for data far more than voice.

Re:Wait a second, (1)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 2 years ago | (#36589990)

This is true of all modern smartphones (I have an Android phone now, and had iPhone before - both were used for data far more than voice).

Re:Wait a second, (1)

Dogtanian (588974) | more than 2 years ago | (#36590434)

Because these are not mobile phones, they are mobile computers that just happen to also offer phone service.

FWIW, I'd say that they're as much the spiritual successor to the PDA as they are a phone. They're not called that because (a) PDAs kind of went of out fashion and declined commercially a while back and (b) they evolved from the direction of the phone market.

I'm not claiming that they're the same as a ten-year-old Palm. I'm saying that if the PDA market had continued to be successful, they would likely have mutated into something very similar to the iPhone et al anyway.

The fact that they're seen as "phones" reflects the market they evolved from, more than what they are now.

Typical Blackberry user (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 2 years ago | (#36589450)

To me, BlackBerry's software was well-designed and reliable, and it allowed me to do pretty much everything I expect a communications device to do, so I couldn't really picture what else I'd need to download.,

That's because like every other Blackberry user I ever knew, you NEVER LEFT THE EMAIL CLIENT.
Not even to talk...

There's a whole world of interesting applications for a smart phone if you don't respond to emails the second they arrive.

Re:Typical Blackberry user (0)

SoCalChris (573049) | more than 2 years ago | (#36589576)

Even the email client sucks horribly if you need to use IMAP. Seriously, why can they not implement proper IMAP support in a device that's designed mainly for email? And before anyone suggests it, BES is not a replacement for proper IMAP support.

I switched to an Android phone about 6 months ago, and was immediately blown away by the difference in experiences between the devices.

Re:Typical Blackberry user (1)

PCM2 (4486) | more than 2 years ago | (#36589958)

Seriously, why can they not implement proper IMAP support in a device that's designed mainly for email?

What did you find deficient about it? What did you want it to do that it couldn't do?

(I'm really still a POP guy myself, because IMAP has always seemed clunky and prone to data loss, to me. I'd rather download multiple copies of messages to different devices than trust my phone or some random client not to do something catastrophic to my mail folders. If I remember right, actually, what I did was setup a forwarding rule on my mail server to send copies of my incoming mail to my BlackBerry email address. Doing it this way, instead of polling my mail accounts every 9 minutes or whatever, new mail would arrive on my handset within seconds.)

Re:Typical Blackberry user (1)

SoCalChris (573049) | more than 2 years ago | (#36590100)

Two way syncing of read/unread status. If I read an email on my computer's email client, it would be marked as read on my BB. If I read an email on my BB, it would not be marked as read on the server, so later when I'd check my email I would have to go through all of my messages again and figure out which ones I had already read.

Also, deleting an email from my computer's mail client would not remove it from my BB. So if I went through and removed a bunch of spam, or moved mail to different folders on the server, those changes would not be applied to my BB inbox.

  It doesn't sound like a huge issue, but when you've got a ton of email that you're dealing with every day, it became a huge hassle.

Re:Typical Blackberry user (1)

layer3switch (783864) | more than 2 years ago | (#36590342)

another thing is contacts and calendar schedule. oh boy, i don't know what i would do if i had to import schedule on multiple places.

Re:Typical Blackberry user (1)

PCM2 (4486) | more than 2 years ago | (#36590524)

Those are valid points. I just don't have the same usage pattern, or (apparently) the same mail volume.

Re:Typical Blackberry user (2)

jojoba_oil (1071932) | more than 2 years ago | (#36589650)

That's because like every other Blackberry user I ever knew, you NEVER LEFT THE EMAIL CLIENT. Not even to talk...

Most pre-iPhone smart phone users used the BlackBerry as a portable email client (and breakout game for the subway), while they maintained a regular cell-phone for talking. I can probably count the number of times I received a call from a BlackBerry on one hand, and those were only in situations when the regular phone had a problem. BlackBerries used to pick up ridiculous amounts of background noise (and maybe still do).

TLDR -- you're right: many probably never left the email client to talk... They DID probably leave it to play breakout.

Re:Typical Blackberry user (2)

PCM2 (4486) | more than 2 years ago | (#36589844)

That's because like every other Blackberry user I ever knew, you NEVER LEFT THE EMAIL CLIENT.

It's more than that. On the BlackBerry, the email client is more of a unified inbox. Your text messages arrive in the same inbox, as do voicemail notifications. The whole thing is organized in a way that makes sense to me: chronologically, just like my inbox on Thunderbird. That's one reason why I seem to be one of the few people on Earth who actually likes Motorola's Motoblur skin for Android. It gives me a UI that's pretty much how the BlackBerry does it, but it also throws Facebook messages into the same inbox, plus it automatically updates my contacts with information my Facebook friends have provided about themselves -- so I magically have some folks' phone numbers without having to ask for them and enter them myself. To me, this package is about the most useful thing a communications device can do. It's what attracted me to the BlackBerry platform and it's one of the things that made me choose my particular Android phone over some others.

Not even to talk...

Don't know about that. I used the one phone for everything. I think if you saw people keeping a BlackBerry plus a separate phone for voice calls, it was probably because work gave them the BlackBerry but they already had their own phone with all their phone numbers in it. Also, a lot of people like to text their friends as well as call them, and businesses are sometimes reluctant to pay for unlimited SMS plans, so it makes more sense to do your "phone-y" business on your own phone (where your contacts will be able to text or dial the same number) and just do the email on the business BlackBerry.

Re:Typical Blackberry user (2)

layer3switch (783864) | more than 2 years ago | (#36590554)

At my work, our oncall phone (aka Uncle phone, a derivative of Big Brother phone) is Blackberry with unlimited data and SMS and ridiculously low prime talk time like 200 minutes. One time, upper manager wanted to move us to "smartphone" during the iPhone/Android wind blew its direction to our department. If we are going to move to "smartphone", I specifically asked for more than 24 hours of idle standby time even with extended battery. In short, no smartphone we tested ever lasted more than 12 hours in standby.

Yes, I made everyone in my department stuck with Blackberry since then.

Re:Typical Blackberry user (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36590438)

I had a Blackberry and used it mainly for e-mail. I actually found the e-mail client to be quite lacking. It only allowed "top posting." My primary mailer is ALPINE so I found this highly annoying. Furthermore the e-mail client would choke on long e-mails, truncating them. So if I got something with lots of output or some huge e-mail thread (often with code samples in it) it would refuse to get the message.

I use K9 mail on my Android phone now and find it vastly superior to the BlackBerry e-mail client. So I find when people say "Blackberry is excellent for e-mail" I think they aren't e-mail power users. Most BlackBerry users are probably just executive types who use e-mail to add a one-line top-posted canned response like "FYI:" or "Why?"

I say good riddance to a bad platform.

Re:Wait a second, (2)

MyFirstNameIsPaul (1552283) | more than 2 years ago | (#36589452)

Yeah, that's a valid point. I'm not that big on apps, but there have been a few times when I've been stranded in an airport or some such place and desired some form of mindless entertainment, which the BlackBerry just doesn't really provide much of. BBSSH [bbssh.org] is a great SSH client, and I feel totally safe storing my keys on the BlackBerry.

Re:Wait a second, (1)

UnknowingFool (672806) | more than 2 years ago | (#36589912)

Therein lies the problem. While BBs are good communication devices especially for email and texting, they were never elevated to be a mobile computing platform. Here is where Apple and Android have changed the game. Both allow consumers to extend their smart phones to be more than phones.

Re:Wait a second, (1)

whisper_jeff (680366) | more than 2 years ago | (#36589934)

You forgot to end your post correct. Simply add "Now, get off my lawn!" and everything will be set right.

Re:Wait a second, (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36590364)

You're also missing a pretty big point.

Internal developers aren't magically different from 3rd party developers. They use the same tools...

If its hard for 3rd party developers to build apps, you know its hard for the internal devs as well. This could be one of the reasons why they have had trouble releasing devices on time, updating various parts of their OS, and internal apps...

It's not true (4, Funny)

microbee (682094) | more than 2 years ago | (#36589074)

All thirteen of them said so.

Re:It's not true (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36590084)

What is all this talk about defecating, RIM and the black dots in the logo.

Blackberry is the corporate standard (1, Informative)

Daniel_is_Legnd (1447519) | more than 2 years ago | (#36589100)

The only reason blackberry is still in existence is because corporations and IT teams don't want to migrate to a new platform. Blackberry phones aren't anymore secure than an Android of iPhone with the proper corporate sync apps installed. Like many products, it became a standard even though a new and better product took it's place.

Re:Blackberry is the corporate standard (3, Insightful)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 2 years ago | (#36589172)

I'd rather blame it on the perceived "air" around them. Blackberries have the "air" of being business-y and important, making the user some kind of nobility, while androids and iPhones have that stink of the commoner around them who uses it for petty games and enjoyment rather than important business.

Re:Blackberry is the corporate standard (1)

Daniel_is_Legnd (1447519) | more than 2 years ago | (#36589204)

Sadly enough, this probably very true.

Re:Blackberry is the corporate standard (1)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 2 years ago | (#36589320)

C'mon, everyone who ever worked in IT and had to somehow integrate Blackberry into their system will be able to tell you a story about some manager coming in, getting his Blackberry and looking like a child who found the prized toy he always wanted under the Christmas Tree.

Re:Blackberry is the corporate standard (1)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | more than 2 years ago | (#36589362)

Blackberries have the "air" of being business-y and important, making the user some kind of nobility...

I would have used the word 'heir'. Blackberries feel old.

Re:Blackberry is the corporate standard (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36590050)

Almost every Blackberry user I know, Corporate or Commoner, has fled to another platform. The only ones that haven't are the late (or never) adopters who are the last to embrace change.

Re:Blackberry is the corporate standard (3, Informative)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 2 years ago | (#36589200)

I'm hearing through the grapevine that Blackberry's corporate position isn't all that secure either. I know of one medium-sized company that has been replacing Blackberries with iPhones, and talking to their tech guy, they may be shutting down their BES server this fall if all goes according to plan. Since integration into Exchange, which is the big deal, isn't all that hard any more, the limited lock in that RIM had is gone.

Re:Blackberry is the corporate standard (2)

acoustix (123925) | more than 2 years ago | (#36589670)

Since integration into Exchange, which is the big deal, isn't all that hard any more, the limited lock in that RIM had is gone.

If integration with Exchange isn't a big deal then why can't ActiveSync give the iPhone the same capabilities as a BlackBerry with BES?

Just curious.

Re:Blackberry is the corporate standard (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36589860)

Such as what exactly?

Re:Blackberry is the corporate standard (3, Informative)

Jackdaw Rookery (696327) | more than 2 years ago | (#36589294)

That's not quite true. The BB is a secure smart-ish-phone which makes it ideal for corporate/government use. It's locked down and encrypted.

Don't get on your platform high horse or anything, something happening too often here (get off my lawn) but ...

Android isn't secure at all. Until Android phones start coming with hardware based encryption we can't use them, it basically rules them out at the first stage. People are pushing to use Android but it is a no go right now. Same for Windows Phone 7, no hardware encryption = no use, although no-one is pushing for WP7.

We're slowly moving to the iPhone 4 through Exchange and a MDM, people want to use the iPhone, we can configure it just as strongly as the BB and it has AES 256 hardware encryption. It's a win-win.

Re:Blackberry is the corporate standard (0)

errandum (2014454) | more than 2 years ago | (#36589356)

There were news some time ago that said that the 256 bit encryption was based on a 4 digit numerical value, so it was possible to brute-force in less than 24 hours.

I wouldn't stick my head out for the iPhone yet.

Re:Blackberry is the corporate standard (1)

jessecurry (820286) | more than 2 years ago | (#36589412)

Only when the user sets a 4 digit pin as their lock code. When the user has a text-based lock code the key can be much longer. The security policy of the phone can be set for force a text-based password.

Re:Blackberry is the corporate standard (1)

zonky (1153039) | more than 2 years ago | (#36589540)

If it wipes after 10 invalid attempts anyway, then what does it matter?

Re:Blackberry is the corporate standard (0)

errandum (2014454) | more than 2 years ago | (#36589588)

I answered to this later, but I want a source to that.

No article I read mentioned that. And I do not believe the phone re-encrypts anything because you changed id method.

I might be wrong, but it wouldn't be feasible.

Re:Blackberry is the corporate standard (2)

rtfa-troll (1340807) | more than 2 years ago | (#36590440)

The normal way to do that is that the human entered password encrypts a longer secret. The longer secret (or secrets) encrypts the drive. When you change the password then you do reencrypt the longer secret. That way you change the decryption password without re-encrypting the whole device.

If you think about it there's really no other way to do it. If the user can enter the device with just a PIN then that PIN has to open the encrypted stores up.

Re:Blackberry is the corporate standard (1)

Jackdaw Rookery (696327) | more than 2 years ago | (#36589644)

This. If you leave your devices set to a 4 digit pin then really you are asking for trouble.

Setting your device to alpha-numeric-symbol and enforcing it through exchange or MDM is the way to go.

Also set your devices to auto-wipe after 10 password attempts to prevent brute force or guessing at poor passwords.

The reason you wouldn't stick your head out for the iPhone yet is you don't know enough, do your own research and don't go on 'news you heard some time ago.'

Re:Blackberry is the corporate standard (0)

errandum (2014454) | more than 2 years ago | (#36589732)

I answered to this later, but:

"If the passcode was too long to bruteforce, the company said it was possible to bypass this by hacking what are called "escrow keys," which are created by Apple applications such as iTunes and stored on a user's computer."

If you also happen to steal a computer along with an iPhone, you might be able to. And for the record, before the OTA update this might actually be a true scenario (you need a computer to get stuff into-from your iPhone)

Re:Blackberry is the corporate standard (1)

Jackdaw Rookery (696327) | more than 2 years ago | (#36590052)

To do that they'd have to first brute force the full disk encryption we have on our devices. Security in depth, don't rely on one layer alone.

Anyway, if someone has physical access to your device, plus time and/or money, then it's game over.

Call BS on secure (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 2 years ago | (#36589494)

The BB is a secure smart-ish-phone which makes it ideal for corporate/government use. It's locked down and encrypted.

Right, it does all that and then sends everything through Canada BES servers.

Or sometimes has the traffic take a side trip through something like a Saudi scanner depending on what country you are in.

To my mind this is what will move a lot of companies to Android/iPhone, they actually have full control of the security, and do not have to wonder just what mode BES is in when execs go traveling.

I figure the government must have their own BES servers that are immune from such nonsense. but even they are going to iPhones in greater numbers.

Re:Call BS on secure (1)

Jackdaw Rookery (696327) | more than 2 years ago | (#36589910)

Of course we have our own BES. So yes, it is secure as we own everything about it and, regarding the BES, know where every packet goes.

No it does not do this "sends everything through Canada BES servers. Or sometimes has the traffic take a side trip through something like a Saudi scanner depending on what country you are in." and if you can list your sources that would be great.

Actual sources though, not an unsubstantiated blog post. Oh you are making random stuff up? OK then, off you go.

Re:Blackberry is the corporate standard (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36589752)

My desktop PC has no hardware encryption either - what does it matter? Most mid-range Android phones should be plenty powerful enough to crypt in software. In addition, the BB isn't quite as secure as you think it is, but I refer to my sibling posters for that.

Re:Blackberry is the corporate standard (1)

errandum (2014454) | more than 2 years ago | (#36589300)

This is not exactly true. Some parts might be secure because they're encrypted and whatnot, but the phones themselves are easy to jailbreak/root and get access to everything you have in there.

Furthermore, the state of Android updates leaves most phones frozen in time in relation to security updates... And iPhone's encryption, at least, has already been broken by a Russian firm.

Not saying they are insecure, but stating they are the same is dangerous. The reason RIM is liked it's because it has stood the test of time and, until now, not one is complaining about security.

The judge is still out on that.

Re:Blackberry is the corporate standard (1)

jessecurry (820286) | more than 2 years ago | (#36589442)

The Russian security firm was able to brute force devices that were locked with a 4 digit PIN because there are not that many possible 4 digit PINs. They could not crack a phone with a text-based lock code.

Re:Blackberry is the corporate standard (1)

errandum (2014454) | more than 2 years ago | (#36589578)

You sure about that?

Source or I do not believe it. I highly doubt every time you change your pin/id method it re-encrypts everything on your phone with the new key (that would require quite a while, even with symmetric encryption). I believe the problem is that all (default) keys are generated during production and then used for everything.

Re:Blackberry is the corporate standard (1)

errandum (2014454) | more than 2 years ago | (#36589622)

I stand corrected, the key is the one encrypted with the used defined password that by default is 4 digits.

Re:Blackberry is the corporate standard (1)

errandum (2014454) | more than 2 years ago | (#36589654)

but,

"If the passcode was too long to bruteforce, the company said it was possible to bypass this by hacking what are called "escrow keys," which are created by Apple applications such as iTunes and stored on a user's computer."

So still not BB like

Re:Blackberry is the corporate standard (1)

drb226 (1938360) | more than 2 years ago | (#36589316)

Like many products, it became a standard even though a new and better product took it's place.

Not that I'm a BB fan, but what exactly makes iOS/Android that much better?

Re:Blackberry is the corporate standard (1)

errandum (2014454) | more than 2 years ago | (#36589384)

For one, just read the thread bellow this one.

Also, the intuitive interface, the great phones and... APPS. For any/everything.

The only thing BB's still have going for them is the encryption and (some) of the physical keyboards, that I consider the best qwerty keyboards on the market.

Re:Blackberry is the corporate standard (0)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 2 years ago | (#36589430)

The availability of applications, a much better OS, much higher quality devices.

Re:Blackberry is the corporate standard (2)

zonky (1153039) | more than 2 years ago | (#36589558)

Yay for installed apps clutter. Honestly, it takes longer to find the right icon than to just use the web browser in the first place.

Re:Blackberry is the corporate standard (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36589810)

Good luck using the blackberry web browser for anything. Last time I used a blackberry I found the browser to be a godawful piece of shit. Not useful for much more than viewing very basic HTML (slashdot = NO GO). Opera Mini (you know, the stripped down Java ME dumbphone browser) was a major step up from whatever crap they built into the BB OS. At least with Android you start out with a proper webkit browser with JS support, and you can install something even fancier from the app store (Opera Mobile, Dolphin, Firefox) if you are so inclined.

Re:Blackberry is the corporate standard (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 2 years ago | (#36589952)

I have mine locked to the bottom bar. Easy to find on on home screen. I also only keep frequently used apps on any of my homescreens. No clutter.

Re:Blackberry is the corporate standard (1)

drb226 (1938360) | more than 2 years ago | (#36589988)

a much better OS

Thanks for the tautology.

higher quality devices

[citation needed]

availability of applications

Now this is legitimate. BB suffers a downward cycle in this respect, due to the topic of TFA.

Re:Blackberry is the corporate standard (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36589480)

Nothing. At this point, most of the platforms are equally capable software wise.

Each platform has it's own area of strength: Android has customization. BB has messaging. i*, WebOS, WP7 has user experience for the masses. Some fanboys will say company _____ "does it better" than other companies. Don't believe them. LOL

Re:Blackberry is the corporate standard (1)

MyFirstNameIsPaul (1552283) | more than 2 years ago | (#36589352)

I only use the BIS service, but I'm concerned about losing my phone or having it swiped. There is stuff on there that my competitors would find very valuable. I know that with the BlackBerry it is virtually impossible to get information from a locked phone (except probably for governments, but that's not a concern for me). Every article that I've seen comparing various devices comes to the conclusion that BlackBerry is by far the most secure. There was quite a good one within the last year that was posted here in slashdot, although I can't find it right now, so I've stuck with BlackBerry. The other thing I really like about BlackBerry is that it is the best way I've found for typing emails, which I do a lot of on the phone when I'm traveling. I really don't care for typing on the touchscreens and all of the other qwerty keyboards I've tried out are too small or not well thought out.

Re:Blackberry is the corporate standard (0)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 2 years ago | (#36589528)

If you turn on encryption and locking for an iPhone it encrypts all storage, and you can instruct it to wipe remote. It will also wipe on a handful of failed passcode attempts.

For emails if you had to do it a ton you could get a small foldable Bluetooth keyboard, or just learn to type on the on-screen keyboard. I prefer that to tiny keys on most devices.

Re:Blackberry is the corporate standard (2)

vux984 (928602) | more than 2 years ago | (#36589378)

The only reason blackberry is still in existence is because corporations and IT teams don't want to migrate to a new platform. Blackberry phones aren't anymore secure than an Android of iPhone with the proper corporate sync apps installed

And how does one load 'the proper corporate sync apps'? They create an itunes account for each phone? Or does one purchase of the app qualify the entire organization?

How does IT manage software roll outs to a fleet of iphones?

Sorry, iphones suck in IT. They're ok in environements where only a few CxOs have them and you can have person literally walk to each handset when ever something has to be done, or where staff are responsible for their own handsets, and IT only has to give them their email settings. (which is suitable in some environments... but not all of them)

In any situation where real security is required, or IT is expected have any sort of actual control over the devices, iphones are a nightmare. Yes you can use iphone configuration profiles to set policy... but what if you need to change policy... how do you roll that out? There are all sorts of common cases that are not easy on an iphone that are trivial on a BES.

I don't know much about droids... but i'm skeptical their enterprise / IT support is much better.

Re:Blackberry is the corporate standard (0)

Toad McFrog Esq. (850532) | more than 2 years ago | (#36589684)

There are products available that make all of your gripes about the iPhone go away. See MaaS 360 MDM [maas360.com]. Not only can you push software to devices, you can perform remote wipes (even selective remote wipes) and update policies. I'm sad to say it, but most of the "BES is the only option" arguments that I see from people are purely human change resistance at its finest. Better devices exist - why not use them?

Re:Blackberry is the corporate standard (1)

whisper_jeff (680366) | more than 2 years ago | (#36590000)

I haven't read this but I'd wager it answers all of your questions - it is, after all, called the iPhone OS Enterprise Deployment Guide: http://manuals.info.apple.com/en_US/Enterprise_Deployment_Guide.pdf [apple.com]

Re:Blackberry is the corporate standard (1)

vux984 (928602) | more than 2 years ago | (#36590470)

It mostly it answers them with useless responses.

Here is how to deploy a custom enterprise app for example:

The process for deploying your own applications is:
1 Register for enterprise development with Apple.
2 Sign your applications using your certificate.
3 Create an enterprise distribution provisioning profile that authorizes devices to use
applications youâ(TM)ve signed.
4 Deploy the application and the enterprise distribution provisioning profile to your
usersâ(TM) computers.
5 Instruct users to install the application and profile using iTunes.

1, 2, 3 are fine.

4 - wait I can't do this over the air? Everyone has to tether their phone to a computer at work with their "itunes profile" for that device? So.. itunes has to be installed on every corporate computer...er but we use lightweight locked down client installs with virtual desktop infrastructure... or terminal services...

5 ... wait I have to have the user manually install the profile and application via itunes?

That's not "enterprise deployment" that's small business crap.

Or how about:

Remote Wipe
You can remotely wipe the contents of an iPhone, iPod touch, or iPad. Wiping removes
all data and configuration information from the device.

So far so good...

If you recover a device that was wiped because it was lost, use iTunes to restore it using
the deviceâ(TM)s latest backup.

Wait ... what... who is managing the itunes backups the end users? And where exactly is itunes installed again?

Apple's OOB support for iphones in the enterprise is half assed and pathetic. That said, some 3rd parties are picking up some of the slack, from one of the other posts in response to mine.

Re:Blackberry is the corporate standard (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36589500)

From an IT standpoint. Blackberry Enterprise sucks. Bailing on that is a must.

1. You need to install a server software to integrate with Exchange (unless you reroute all your email to some internet email service)
2. Not suppose to have Exchange and BES on the same server, so one more point of failure.
3. Said server requires....is it Java, Kerberos, and mixed Server OS environment combination that's broken? I don't know, I stopped trying to fix it. RIM didn't have a good explanation and their ultimate solution sucked.
4. Not fully integrated with Exchange, Exchange's mobile policy's don't push to it. Blackberry Server has it's own mobile policy I guess

Smartphones that talk to exchange are wham, bam, thank you ma'am. For BB, if you have the Java,Kerberos, mixed Server OS issue, you can't add new phones. If you can't get into your exchange server to do the MINOR configuration, you have bigger problems then not adding a new phone.

The only thing I wish they'd port to Exchange-capable phones is, RIM doing token/serialized authentication, removing the need to redo password on the phone each time it's changed.

Re:Blackberry is the corporate standard (4, Informative)

acoustix (123925) | more than 2 years ago | (#36589840)

From an IT standpoint. Blackberry Enterprise sucks. Bailing on that is a must.

1. You need to install a server software to integrate with Exchange (unless you reroute all your email to some internet email service)
2. Not suppose to have Exchange and BES on the same server, so one more point of failure.
3. Said server requires....is it Java, Kerberos, and mixed Server OS environment combination that's broken? I don't know, I stopped trying to fix it. RIM didn't have a good explanation and their ultimate solution sucked.
4. Not fully integrated with Exchange, Exchange's mobile policy's don't push to it. Blackberry Server has it's own mobile policy I guess

Smartphones that talk to exchange are wham, bam, thank you ma'am. For BB, if you have the Java,Kerberos, mixed Server OS issue, you can't add new phones. If you can't get into your exchange server to do the MINOR configuration, you have bigger problems then not adding a new phone.

The only thing I wish they'd port to Exchange-capable phones is, RIM doing token/serialized authentication, removing the need to redo password on the phone each time it's changed.

In other words, you haven't read any documentation on the BB environment. Besides, BES supports more Exchange features than ActiveSync. And yes, BlackBerries have their own policy settings separate of Exchange with much, MUCH more control over the devices. This is something you would know if you would have actually read something about the BB platform.

Re:Blackberry is the corporate standard (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36589880)

Are you high? Anyone with 7 seconds of spare time can root/jailbreak/pwn a Android/iPhone. Once that is done, you're 'app' is useless. And before the 'but this app remote wipes' or 'this one has the encryption' or 'blah, blah, blah' comments come out, there is a way around each one of those - any you know it.

I don't think it's about security (1)

damn_registrars (1103043) | more than 2 years ago | (#36590370)

Blackberry phones aren't anymore secure than an Android of iPhone with the proper corporate sync apps installed

I think security is a pretty small bit of it. I think it has more to do with BB enterprise applications, as well as the fact that the BB platform is pretty homogeneous. If you swap an employee between two or three different BB phones, you can count on the same desktop software working in the same way for all of them. You can also manage the remote data for all of them the same way.

In contrast, Android for all its strengths is a nightmare of conflicting setups. There is no consistent sync software that I've seen so far, likely at least in part due to all the different deployments of Android across the different vendors with their Android phones.

And then the iPhone. Even if you overlook that it locks you into iTunes, the iPhone does have one huge downfall in the eyes of some users - which other seem to consider a great asset. I'm referring to being completely dependent on the touch screen for everything since it has only one button on the entire phone. Some people still prefer physical keys, and a touch screen that makes a clicking sound won't do it for that.

Finally (1)

nemasu (1766860) | more than 2 years ago | (#36589114)

I've been saying this for years. Developing on the Blackberry was a nightmare...and I wasn't even on that team. Good riddance.

Re:Finally (2)

errandum (2014454) | more than 2 years ago | (#36589256)

This is what I was going to say.

When BB was the majority, you had a reason to stick around. But there are new kids on the block that don't rely on developers to adapt to their stupidly absurd development environment.

Re:Finally (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36589440)

Developing on the Blackberry was a nightmare

You weren't really supposed to write code on that tiny keyboard and screen.

Re:Finally (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36589448)

I've been saying this for years. Developing on the Blackberry was a nightmare...and I wasn't even on that team. Good riddance.

Developing for blackberry is pretty simple java. As much as I despise java, java has a pretty big developer community. For many many years, RIM has given away free documentation & SDK (unlike Apple). RIM doesn't make you sign an NDA. RIM gives away free blackberry emulator software so you can test your application on different models (unlike Apple).

RIM places no restrictions on installing & selling your application (unlike Apple). RIM places no restrictions on what your application can do (unlike Apple). You can sell through blackberry app world, or any other mechanism you choose, including just putting the files on your website for anyone to download.

RIM does not have the ability to remove applications from end-user blackberries (unlike Apple).

RIM doesn't restrict what computer IDE you use to develop in (unlike Apple).

Does it matter? (2, Informative)

alvinrod (889928) | more than 2 years ago | (#36589218)

Considering that with the Playbook they added the ability to support apps written for Android, they could essentially decide to do the same for their phones. The experience may be diminished, but they'll still be able to provide access to a large amount of apps.

This also raises the question of whether or not RIM's decision to allow Android apps to be ported to the Playbook has further influenced developers to abandon creating native applications as they believe that in the future this capability might be extended to BlackBerry's phones.

This in stark contrast to Apple's decision to limit third party development platforms on iOS to a large extent should make for an interesting comparison several years down the road when we can see how these choices have impacted developers and their choices regarding whether to develop native applications for RIM devices.

Yes it matters (3, Insightful)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 2 years ago | (#36589286)

Considering that with the Playbook they added the ability to support apps written for Android

No, they said they PLAN to add that support. When it will be delivered? Who can say.

they could essentially decide to do the same for their phones.

For existing phones? The ones with no Android specific buttons? The ones that were never built intending to run Android?

No.

The reason all this matters is that there is no coherent story about BB development anywhere (since the tablets use Air and the phones do not), and what development was going on was with a nightmare API (I looked over it once to evaluate doing a port to BB and ran away).

Blackberry has the same problem Nokia did, BB is just much more entrenched and harder to shake loose. But they haven't done anything to firm up the grip they had, and when it goes it will go fast.

Re:Yes it matters (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36589592)

You're a little late: http://www.knowyourmobile.com/blog/875391/playbook_gets_android_support_plus_native_email_contacts_tasks_and_calendar.html

And it would be trivial to redirect software Home/Menu/Back to keys on a physical keyboard (for phones) or have software buttons (on Playbook, just like all Honeycomb tablets that are able to support phone apps without physical buttons).

Re:Yes it matters (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36590448)

And you're a little early. That's a demonstration video, working under controlled circumstances with carefully selected apps, no doubt.

Hardly the same as a working release, which is still due "sometime this summer" last I checked.

Re:Does it matter? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36589372)

There are so many other differences between iOS and the Blackberry that it would be impossible to attribute the rise or fall of either to its parent's policy on third party development platforms. They're completely different devices.

Re:Does it matter? (1)

StripedCow (776465) | more than 2 years ago | (#36590164)

The bigger question is... why aren't we still not all developing for a common denominator, like HTML+javascript?

The way things are organized now means that we'll end up in a nasty monopolistic situation.

CAN'T HELP BUT DEFECATE FROM BLACKBETTY !! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36589224)

She is so into it. ramajam !!

And BBOS8 only makes it worse... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36589230)

The first SDKs? WebWorks and Adobe AIR, ffs... they're still promising a native SDK, not to mention the Java SDK, oh and did I mention they plan to support Dalvik apps as well?

So, unlike Apple and Android with their clean, unified APIs, we're gonna have, what, 4 BBOS8 (when the QNX platform is meant to take over) SDKs, plus Android app compatibility... good job making sure the developer community remains deeply confused, RIM. Well played.

Ask Slashdot (1)

Thunderstruck (210399) | more than 2 years ago | (#36589278)

What phone should I move to now?

I bought a PALM centro because it was easy to sync with Evolution on my Ubuntu Desktop. Palm began to lose market share rapidly. Then palm abandoned local sync with the Pre. Then palm got bought by HP, and has apparently disappeared.

So instead, I bought a Blackberry Bold, because it was almost as easy to sync with my Ubuntu desktop. Then Blackberry began to lose market share...

So tell me, slashdot, what phone can I move to now that will allow me to sync easily and locally with evolution on my Ubuntu desktop. (Local ethics rules and security concerns prevent me from using cloud services like google calendar)

Re:Ask Slashdot (1)

mr_lizard13 (882373) | more than 2 years ago | (#36589420)

I place my phone face down on a flatbed scanner, and take an image of the phone with the calendar app open.

Then I use OCR software to identify the text, and copy/paste the calendar entries into the computer's calendar program.

The best part? The scanner is WiFi. WiFi!!

Sync with no cables! I'm living the future.

Re:Ask Slashdot (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36589524)

stick with blackberry, it's not going anywhere, yes they are loosing market "share" but only because the market is growing, BB total sales have continues to increase, but the smart-phone market has increased at a faster pace, hence the "loss" is no loss at all. It's just this crazy perception where only percentages count, not reality.

Re:Ask Slashdot (1)

DontBlameCanada (1325547) | more than 2 years ago | (#36589538)

Go with an iPhone. Your history of killing the leading platforms when you migrate to them would be beneficial to the up-and-comer companies that I have in my stock portfolio.

TIA!

Re:Ask Slashdot (1)

mr1911 (1942298) | more than 2 years ago | (#36589786)

You should switch to the Nokia phones running Windows Mobile.

Oh wait, I was thinking you wanted to migrate to the next phone manufacturer rapidly losing market share.

Whiners (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36589282)

Want some cheese with that whine?

Give me a break. I've been developing on BB for years, without problems. Thum bwheel support is a red herring: no one writes for devices that old. Sure j2me isn't a walk in the park, you have to write a few things for yourself. Writing the code wasn't hard, it's working around the bugs in the OS that's a hassle, and to me that makes it like every other platform.

There's a reason you learned Taylor series in school, it was to implement Math.atan() in CLDC/MIDP.

Business lockdown also limits BlackBerry app sales (1)

CarlPatten (6233) | more than 2 years ago | (#36589302)

Where I work, we are strongly discouraged from loading any non-business-approved applications on our BlackBerry phones. As a consequence, I have never bothered visiting the Blackberry app store. If I had a business-approved iPhone I imagine it'd be the same way, but since BlackBerry's entire focus is on business I'd imagine these sorts of restrictions are hurting their app sales more so than for comparable devices.

Those defecating blackberries need medical help (1)

phonewebcam (446772) | more than 2 years ago | (#36589306)

Anyway, isn't Elops mission complete now? He's just waiting for Ballmers command to become RIM's CEO so they can all start using some crappy toy xbox-controller OS for the phones.

Ok now Bye bye then.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36589326)

Hope Blackberry either dies a quick death or one of their two CEOs demands that the BB OS gets a revamp a la QNX from the Playbook ,either way they are on life support as it is. With their present buggy bloated platform that is years behind the modern mobile OS (android/ios hell even windows phone), this news of mass developer exodus comes as no surprise to me.

I've often been amused at how nothing has changed at RIM since the early 00's their hardware is a complete joke for a modern smartphone.

Shareholders are going to flee soon if this all keeps snowballing.

RIM already noticed this, responded (2)

Qwavel (733416) | more than 2 years ago | (#36589458)

On the plus side, you can't accuse RIM of being ignorant of this problem, or of not taking it seriously.

RIM's decision to support Android apps on their new QNX-based OS must have been very painful and probably resulted in a backlash from partners who had invested a lot in their existing app platform.

The upside is that the Playbook and the next gen of BB phones will have access to the vast store of apps that consumers want these days in spite of the lack of developer support described in TFA.

RIM makes it difficult (1)

X10 (186866) | more than 2 years ago | (#36589466)

As a BB developer, you can't use the api's that RIM developers can use to build apps. While Apple and Google do what they can to make life easy for their developers, RIM doesn't seem to like their developers.

The sky is falling! (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36589764)

A couple of nobody app developers aren't going to do a BB app! It is the end of RIM!

What a load of shit.

Blackberries are thriving! (1)

cashman73 (855518) | more than 2 years ago | (#36589974)

Blackberry isn't dead yet! Just in the past few weeks, I've seen tons of signs on the highways here in eastern Tennessee advertising Blackberries! They're selling them by the ton! Oh, wait! Those are signs for the fruity variety, not the phones. Sorry, my bad! ;-)

Great... (2)

lpp (115405) | more than 2 years ago | (#36590444)

With less and less attention being given to the RIM platform, it's just going to make it harder and harder to get a RIM job.

RIM Buys All the Good Ones (1)

gpmanrpi (548447) | more than 2 years ago | (#36590536)

I think the difference with Android and iOS is that Google and Apple don't buy out the good developers. It seems like RIM consistently does it, and then makes it a part of their OS. This stinks of the Microsoft embrace and extend approach to development of a platform. To be frank, blackberries don't "need" many apps. They are designed to be mobile E-mail/Contact Convergence platforms for corporations that use Exchange or Domino server infrastructure. So when things like Twitter apps or Web Browsers are made by others that work in a way that can be integrated to this existing infrastructure, RIM buys the good ones and makes it part of the approved platform. This works really well for things like enforcing copy and paste consistency, or adding/updating contacts consistency. Those are both really really big problems in iOS and Android. Additionally, multitasking seems to save state correctly (I am looking at you android browser and contact manager). While it is fun to pick-up the girlfriend's Samsung and shoot some birds at some swine, when I try to switch between a browser and a contact manager to add contact information, or make a selection of an address to add to a contact, I don't have to start all over on my Blackberry Curve, but I do on her Samsung. It makes me cry sometimes how little integration tasks I am used to on the Blackberry are completely missing on the iOS and Android platforms, since the others have so much more overall potential. But RIM has a decade head-start or so, so they should probably worry they will go the way of the PalmOS if they don't get their act together.
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