Beta

Slashdot: News for Nerds

×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Are Fake Geeks Dooming Real Ones?

Soulskill posted about 3 years ago | from the nerds-and-dorks-still-secure dept.

Editorial 492

mattnyc99 writes "In the wake of the Best Buy 'geek' trademarking and Miss USA calling herself 'a huge history geek,' writer (and self-proclaimed geek) Eryn Green has an interesting piece for Esquire on how so-called 'geek chic' is pervading the culture so much that no one appreciates an actual geek anymore. From the article: 'The difference between brains and beauty is that you're more or less born into good looks — entitled, if you will. Intelligence? That takes work. If the hallmark of real geekiness — of America — is determination, then we seem too determined to have an entitlement problem.'"

cancel ×

492 comments

Nope (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36589594)

Nobody apart from other geeks has ever appreciated an actual geek.

Re:Nope (4, Funny)

suso (153703) | about 3 years ago | (#36589672)

Shut up geek.

Re:Nope (1)

DigiShaman (671371) | about 3 years ago | (#36589896)

As long as geeks are continually abused, they will be loved at the same time by those that abuse them. See, we are important!

Explained in D&D terms (5, Funny)

suso (153703) | about 3 years ago | (#36589936)

Ok, being a bit more serious. here is what is going on.

Throughout the age of d20 and now d21 (how would that work?) in the prime material plane at least we've been making the transition from "ruled by braun" to "ruled by brain". In this new age STR, DEX and CON aren't important as they once were and so in this new world that values INT above all else, those that have the CHR, but not the INT have to use some WIS and lie about their character class. Because in the public eye, CHR is always important. Most people don't want to associate with character with low CHR scores, so they take people with a good mix of both and make sure they get to fight the dragon.

Re:Explained in D&D terms (0)

PCM2 (4486) | about 3 years ago | (#36590008)

we've been making the transition from "ruled by braun" to "ruled by brain".

Some of us, anyway. Richard Stallman made the transition long ago. [braun.com]

Re:Nope (1)

swanzilla (1458281) | about 3 years ago | (#36589676)

Well, them, and carnival sideshow patrons.

Re:Nope (1)

Dahamma (304068) | about 3 years ago | (#36589942)

Excellent point. Anyone here who calls himself a geek but has not actually bitten the head off of a live chicken, please go away.

Nothings changed (4, Insightful)

Dayze!Confused (717774) | about 3 years ago | (#36589598)

Nothings changed, nobody appreciated an actual geek to begin with.

Re:Nothings changed (1)

CaptainPatent (1087643) | about 3 years ago | (#36589608)

Nothings changed, nobody appreciated an actual geek to begin with.

Unless it means they get free computer repair.

Re:Nothings changed (4, Insightful)

zach_the_lizard (1317619) | about 3 years ago | (#36589652)

They always take that for granted and get pissed at you if you refuse to give them free service. At least, that's been my experience. So no, they don't really appreciate you.

Re:Nothings changed (1)

Riceballsan (816702) | about 3 years ago | (#36589798)

Tis true, more often then not, a quick thank you for fixing my computer, leads to a 2am "omg I got another virus can you come down here and fix it".

Re:Nothings changed (1)

vikisonline (1917814) | about 3 years ago | (#36589816)

Yea definetly. One day a pesky neighbour wouldn't let me go to work, he insisted I look at his computer. Stupidly I did. His thanks was quiet literally this "See it only took you two minutes, you had the time after all". Yea... and they always insist I fix it the day of. The day when this bs is over is coming soon. Either I stop doing it all together or I start charging them...

Re:Nothings changed (2, Insightful)

Lunix Nutcase (1092239) | about 3 years ago | (#36589648)

Why would anyone appreciate someone who bites the heads off of chickens? Oh right, the story is apparently only referring to fake geeks not actual geeks (carnival performers who do gross acts).

Re:Nothings changed (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36589656)

Yea, they will just come up with a new word for real geeks and it will have the same, or worse, negative connotation that it always has.

Re:Nothings changed (3, Informative)

Lunix Nutcase (1092239) | about 3 years ago | (#36589706)

"Real" geeks are carnies who do things like bite off a chicken's head. Anything else is a fake geek.

Re:Nothings changed (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36589828)

Now tell us what a real hacker is!

Re:Nothings changed (1)

jc42 (318812) | about 3 years ago | (#36590010)

Now tell us what a real hacker is!

Easy. That's someone who builds furniture with an axe.

(Hey, you could have looked it up! I didn't need to, because I looked it up in the Jargon File years ago. So I suppose that makes me a language geek. ;-)

Re:Nothings changed (3, Interesting)

Seumas (6865) | about 3 years ago | (#36589854)

Agreed. Despite what navel-gazing corners of the internet have tried to convince ourselves, the only people who think geeks are cool are geeks. The average person still thinks of "geek" as a derogatory term. Just a few years ago, I referred to myself as "such a geek" for something ridiculous I had done and the goth girl I was seeing at the time looked sympathetically at me and said (in all sincerity) that I wasn't a geek and I shouldn't be so hard on myself. It was like I had slammed my head against the wall repeatedly while saying "I'm such a loser! I'm SUCH a loser!" and she felt compelled to assure me that I was not this terrible thing I was calling myself.

Of course, the number of people who currently self-identify as geeks is large enough that it can still help someone have a career if they ride the wave just the right way and at the right time (and especially if they have breasts - it seems to work for every female who has ever been on G4TV, for example).

Premise of story is bullshit (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36589606)

You do realize that "geek" does not mean "computer nerd" right? Calling oneself a "history geek" is perfectly valid.

Re:Premise of story is bullshit (3, Informative)

Dahamma (304068) | about 3 years ago | (#36590006)

As long as the fact that she is a history geek makes her "peculiar and unlikable". "Computer nerds" weren't called geeks because they are techie, they were called that because they were also socially maladjusted and shunned, like a circus freak...

real geekiness? (5, Insightful)

cheeks5965 (1682996) | about 3 years ago | (#36589610)

If the hallmark of real geekiness — of America — is determination, then we seem too determined to have an entitlement problem.

LOLWUT? This statement makes no sense. It sounds like a perversion of a tea party truism. A salute to real American geekiness as our founding fathers envisioned!

In my mind true geeks apply an overabundance of detailed knowledge to an overly technical project that wouldn't interest the general population. Count me in.

-sent from my TI-92 graphing calculator.

Re:real geekiness? (2)

bhcompy (1877290) | about 3 years ago | (#36589794)

TI-92? A real geek would have done it from a TI-82

Re:real geekiness? (1)

Jstlook (1193309) | about 3 years ago | (#36589898)

A real geek would have done it from a HP 48g

Fixed that for you.

Real Geeks? (3, Informative)

Thelasko (1196535) | about 3 years ago | (#36589612)

Strictly speaking, a geek is a person that performs in a circus sideshow. [wikipedia.org] Everyone else is a fake geek.

Re:Real Geeks? (1)

TarMil (1623915) | about 3 years ago | (#36589722)

As amazing as it may seem to us computer nerds, human languages evolve. And words get new meanings, which are no more fake than the original meaning. Just more recent.

Re:Real Geeks? (1)

Lunix Nutcase (1092239) | about 3 years ago | (#36589784)

I'm pretty sure the GP's post was entirely ironic considering the premise of the article. Basically this person is whining about "fake" geeks co-opting the term when in fact the supposed "real" geeks stole the terms from the prior "real" geeks.

Re:Real Geeks? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36589822)

The definition has changed so much as to provoke this discussion. The popular usage more often leans away from the studious intelligent people with the strange and isolating hobbies. In the end, the popular kids took away the geeks' toys yet again, even if it was often an insult. Next they'll come for the nerd label.

Faulty Premise (3, Insightful)

phlinn (819946) | about 3 years ago | (#36589614)

One can be intelligent with little effort, and and awful lot of beautiful people spend a lot of time on their appearance.

History geek, uh huh..here's a translation (2, Informative)

elrous0 (869638) | about 3 years ago | (#36589616)

Miss USA-speak: "I'm a huge history geek"
English: "I read an article on fashion history in Vogue once."

Re:History geek, uh huh..here's a translation (2)

bhcompy (1877290) | about 3 years ago | (#36589666)

Miss USA-speak: "I'm a math wizard."
English: "I can count to potato+1."

So now there are geek geeks? (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36589618)

Geeking out over the true geekiness of other geeks? What a bunch of geeks.

Amateur Geek (1)

Oxford_Comma_Lover (1679530) | about 3 years ago | (#36589916)

Geeking out over the true geekiness of other geeks? What a bunch of geeks.

True geeks do not. Ironically, they simply grok it.

Solution (2)

nemasu (1766860) | about 3 years ago | (#36589626)

That's why whenever I meet someone who calls themselves a geek I give them a 10 question quiz on the topic of their supposed 'geek-ness' . Made them beforehand of course, I'm not an expert in every field. If they truly are a geek, they will be happy to take it.

Re:Solution (5, Insightful)

Altus (1034) | about 3 years ago | (#36589686)

And they will explain to you why your non expert test is really not a good way to test if someone is geeky in this particular subject. They will then spend an hour or so providing you with a better set of 10 questions and writing up a multi-page answer for each one.

That's when you know you are dealing with a geek.

Re:Solution (1)

nemasu (1766860) | about 3 years ago | (#36589790)

I never said answering the question correctly was the only way to 'Pass'.

Re:Solution (1)

Altus (1034) | about 3 years ago | (#36589826)

I'm just not sure just answering the questions correctly is sufficient to have passed :-)

Re:Solution (1)

nemasu (1766860) | about 3 years ago | (#36589930)

Some of the questions are pretty intense. They are each weighed accordingly of course.

Re:Solution (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36589876)

How do you know that's not the test?

Re:Solution (1)

gman003 (1693318) | about 3 years ago | (#36589724)

Bring it. I claim to be a general video game geek (specialization in FPSes, but decently knowledgeable in golden/silver age JRPGs), Star Wars geek (Expanded Universe up to New Jedi Order), and military history geek. Test me.

Re:Solution (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36589938)

How does a vagina looks like?

Loser.

Re:Solution (2)

Cstryon (793006) | about 3 years ago | (#36589836)

You do that? What a geek!

I always thought that nerds had a specific topic that makes them nerdy. And geeks were more broad in their interests, and also able to function in the real world.

Re:Solution (1)

nemasu (1766860) | about 3 years ago | (#36589994)

I almost would think the exact opposite...almost. I think that geeks focus on one or two things, whereas nerds are intelligent overall, are very good in school, etc. I will agree with the later statement however, I think geeks are able to (for the most part) function in the real world.

Intelligence (5, Insightful)

Psychotria (953670) | about 3 years ago | (#36589630)

Intelligence takes work? First I've heard about that. Sure, utilising intelligence to create new things, undertake science, refine and present new ideas, learning, building etc -- they all take work. I.e. it takes work to use your intelligence to its full potential. But I don't think that's the same thing as saying "Intelligence? That takes work".

Re:Intelligence (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36589832)

Intelligence takes work? First I've heard about that. Sure, utilising intelligence to create new things, undertake science, refine and present new ideas, learning, building etc -- they all take work. I.e. it takes work to use your intelligence to its full potential. But I don't think that's the same thing as saying "Intelligence? That takes work".

My thoughts exactly. Education takes work. Being smart is just as easy or hard as being beautiful.

Re:Intelligence (1)

Nick Ives (317) | about 3 years ago | (#36589884)

I don't remember not being able to read. From my earliest memories, my parents were reading to me and I used to read books like Spot the Dog. That gave me a massive headstart going into primary school, as a lot of other kids either hadn't been taught to read by their parents or simply weren't as interested in it.

I do think it's fair to say that intelligence requires hard work. I'm good at the things I do because I've immersed myself in them for most of my life. Practice can even boost IQ test scores, so I think it's fair to say that intelligence can be improved through effort.

I also think the same thing can be true for beauty. Whether or not someone is considered beautiful is a factor of their clothes, body, etc. To a large degree you can change these things with thought and hard work (diet, exercise, developing your fashion sense and so on).

Some people are just ugly and others are just stupid and in the same way some people are just beautiful and others are geniuses. Most people, however, can come fairly close through lots of hard work.

Re:Intelligence (2)

c0lo (1497653) | about 3 years ago | (#36589954)

Intelligence takes work? First I've heard about that. Sure, utilising intelligence to create new things, undertake science, refine and present new ideas, learning, building etc -- they all take work. I.e. it takes work to use your intelligence to its full potential.

And the moment you stop putting your intelligence to work, its level declines. A new-born with a potential IQ over the average will not realize the potential if raised by wolfs (or politicians).

Re:Intelligence (4, Informative)

GSloop (165220) | about 3 years ago | (#36589960)

Read Carol Dweck.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_Dweck [wikipedia.org]

In short, there may be some upper limit to raw brain power, but for most, that limit isn't ever reached.

So, claiming that "intelligence" is some inherent trait and, like most, assuming that failure equals non-intelligence causes a whole range of problems.

People can sharpen their skills and those skills are usually viewed as intelligence.

The real rub is this: When kids think they are "intelligent" or not, then nothing they do can impact that inherent trait. They will do all sorts of odd things to avoid failure and being labeled "stupid." [The inverse of intelligent.]

When they are told they can learn, and that "intelligence" is not a fixed trait, they do much better, and the odd behaviors of attempting to either gain entry into the "intelligent" club, futility of being in the stupid club, or working to avoid losing the "intelligent" club card vanish.

Read this: [It's from Dweck herself. Her book "Mindset" is an excellent start too.]
http://web.me.com/dianamadsen/Walden_Webpage/Parent_Resources_files/The%20Perils%20and%20Promise%20of%20Praise.pdf [me.com]

Cheers,
Greg

Re:Intelligence (2)

Psychotria (953670) | about 3 years ago | (#36590016)

Thanks Greg,

I always appreciate feedback and opposing views that potentially broaden my horizon. I don't have time at this moment to read the articles you have linked to but I've bookmarked them to read tonight after work

Cheers

Re:Intelligence (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36590014)

I also disagree with the "Looks are entitled" part of the argument. Yes, there may be some lucky few who eat anything, never work out, never shave, wax, style their hair, tweeze, use makeup, learn to dress fashionably, etc etc and still look good. There may be such a person, but they are probably about as rare as Ramanujan or Newton. (Both of whom, by the way, spent years developing their minds... but I digress)

Basically, both sides of the argument are flawed... You can be born ugly or stupid, and no amount of work can help you. Most people, though, are either smarter or better looking than average by spending time developing that part of themselves.

Are we assuming (4, Insightful)

Altus (1034) | about 3 years ago | (#36589634)

That Miss USA isn't a geek just because she is a girl, or is it because she is attractive?

I haven't met her myself, but isn't it actually quite possible that she is a history geek?

Re:Are we assuming (1)

Psychotria (953670) | about 3 years ago | (#36589746)

I actually didn't even think about that. I just automatically assumed that she in fact is a history geek. I have no idea what that says about me.

Re:Are we assuming (1)

phoenixwade (997892) | about 3 years ago | (#36589904)

I actually didn't even think about that. I just automatically assumed that she in fact is a history geek. I have no idea what that says about me.

It says you are a fan of at least one Kevin Costner movie..... "Who would claim to be that?" Here endeth the lesson... heh

Re:Are we assuming (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36589780)

I don't think "history" is one of the permissible categories of "geekiness". In fact, being a "history"-anything just about disqualifies you from being a geek.

Maybe she's a history nerd, but a geek she most certainly is not.

Re:Are we assuming (3, Insightful)

Altus (1034) | about 3 years ago | (#36589812)

Really, so people who love the civil war and collect artifacts from it and do battle re-enactments aren't geeks?

That sounds like prime history geekery to me, they are passionate, they know far more than average about the subject and "normal" people who don't share this particular passion really don't want to hear them drone on for hours about how some particular battle went.

Re:Are we assuming (1)

chaim79 (898507) | about 3 years ago | (#36589956)

My personal take on "Geek" is that it is an in-depth knowledge and enthusiasm for a particular subject, whether that subject be computers, books, engines, figures, trading cards, manga, or history is merely flavors or subcategories, those first two items pretty much make up the entrance exam for being a geek.

Re:Are we assuming (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36589864)

She is a History dork...not a geek

Beauty takes work.... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36589636)

The notion that JUST intelligence takes work is incredibly inaccurate.

Careful grooming, styling, exercise takes a tremendous amount of effort and practice.

The notion that your NOT born into intelligence is also incredibly inaccurate.

As much as we want to believe that ANYONE who wants to can achieve; not everyone can. There are skills that people are just gifted with, be it basketball, baseball, math, science, reading; these are all to the best of our understanding innate and intrinsic.

Now you may have someone who has the potential to be a beauty contestant winner who turns out to be a slob, or someone who could win the fields medal flipping burgers; the exception doesn't make the rule here.

You're not born with good looks (4, Insightful)

BlueParrot (965239) | about 3 years ago | (#36589642)

Exercise, diet , makeup, hair removal, clothing, haircuts, healthcare, stress at work / school, sleeping habbits, alcohol , tobacco , dental care, etc ...

People seriously underestimate how much of a person's appearance is due to lifestyle factors and how much time you are willing to put into it. Yes, there are genetic factors, but frankly there is a heck of a lot of it that can actually be described in terms of effort.

Re:You're not born with good looks (2)

Psychotria (953670) | about 3 years ago | (#36589778)

Exercise, diet , makeup, hair removal, clothing, haircuts, healthcare, stress at work / school, sleeping habbits, alcohol , tobacco , dental care, etc ...

I don't do any of those things. Except maybe for sleeping and alcohol :-( Hair removal is looking after itself.

I disagree entirely... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36589646)

Good looks are much easier to produce than real intelligence. One is born with or without intelligence. Good looks is what takes work.

Harry Potter (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36589658)

Quite an influence to geek wannabes just for the glasses.

I know someone who purposely got eyestrain from his TV hoping to get some prescription glasses to look like Harry Potter. He failed and got emo glasses instead.

Re:Harry Potter (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36589814)

And now all he does is post as AC on Slashdot.

Not so sure about the superiority there (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36589668)

Being intelligent can be rather easy. I've been quite a bit smarter than the average bear my entire life, and it didn't take a lot of work. Actually, it means I got places with a lot less effort than many of my peers. I never had to study, I can get my work done in no time at all, and concepts just make sense to me.

Beauty isn't necessarily easy, though. For most people it takes work to maintain body, image and wardrobe. I'm not good looking, but I can see how much effort people can put into their appearance.

It's all a roll of the genetic dice. If you got an 18 in INT or charisma, good for you. Use what you got.

Intelligence is "entitled" too (2)

Baba Ram Dass (1033456) | about 3 years ago | (#36589674)

Intelligence is not built; accumulation of facts is. But capacity for knowledge and abstract thought, critical thinking abilities... these are things you either have or don't have.

Or intelligence is the result of persistence.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36589870)

Which in and of itself could be an inherent quality. Who knows? You probably have done as much research on the topic of heritability, environment and intelligence as I have: none.

Re:Intelligence is "entitled" too (1)

BJ_Covert_Action (1499847) | about 3 years ago | (#36589968)

Oh yeah, because it's not like anyone can ever be taught to think critically. All those logic and philosophy classes, all of those hours of mathematical analysis and studying in grammar school don't pay off for squat. Constant exposure to, and the reading of, various thinkers over the years, that doesn't improve abstraction abilities at all. Nope, it is all a simple, binary, you were born with it or you weren't.

Give me a break. A good education can, in fact, pay off and make you more intelligent. I gaurantee you that I think on a much more abstract level now, than I did when I was 14. I will probably be able to say the same thing about my current age ten years from now.

And not a single **** was given (3, Insightful)

reaper (10065) | about 3 years ago | (#36589682)

Who cares? I don't devote myself to the geek arts for mainstream acceptance. I do it because shit gotta get hacked.

Fallacy detected (2)

kakyoin01 (2040114) | about 3 years ago | (#36589690)

Geeks are usually known for liking things off the societal beaten path. And this story is trying to claim that geeky traits are becoming mainstream. Isn't that a bit contradictory?

bullshit (1)

unity100 (970058) | about 3 years ago | (#36589914)

there is no such thing as geeks liking things off the societal beaten path - geeks like whatever they like. that false assumption you propose is production of the hipster crowd. thats in itself, something not geeky.

no overclocking geek is going to drop overclocking if it becomes mainstream, for example. or, r/c geek will drop r/cing.
BR.

Five years from now (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36589692)

What's going to be great is in five years not only will I still be a geek, I'll be considered to be behind-the-times in social trends, rather than someone who doesn't really follow them.

cuts both ways (1)

buddyglass (925859) | about 3 years ago | (#36589698)

The difference between brains and beauty is that you're more or less born into good looks — entitled, if you will. Intelligence? That takes work. If the hallmark of real geekiness — of America — is determination, then we seem too determined to have an entitlement problem.

This cuts both ways. For instance most folks can, through diet and exercise, make themselves drastically more attractive than they would be otherwise. Likewise someone can be born with such extensive inherent intelligence that he or she manages to be brilliant without even trying.

Who Cares (1)

milbournosphere (1273186) | about 3 years ago | (#36589702)

about what people call themselves? When it comes down to it, you either are, or aren't, a geek. That chick can call herself whatever she wants as long as she is willing to treat the real geeks with some respect. That's all a lot of us want anyway.

When I think of the prototypical geek (4, Interesting)

Missing.Matter (1845576) | about 3 years ago | (#36589704)

I think of someone who is socially awkward, who also has an unnatural, maybe unhealthy knowledge of some subject in depth. Most often it is something on the outskirts of popular culture (Star Trek/Wars, Anime, 14th centuray blacksmithing techniques). I think the later part of my perception is the more important one.... passion for something not too many people really care about. I don't see why you have to be socially awkward to be a geek.

Personally, I'm well adjusted, good looking, have friends, a girlfriend, no problem performing or public speaking. Yet I program microcontrollers, buy a Kinect (or 3) just to hack it, watch anime, and here I am on Slashdot. I would absolutely consider myself a geek, and I have no problem considering someone a geek just because their unhealthy obsession isn't tech related.

Re:When I think of the prototypical geek (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36589932)

Personally, I'm well adjusted, good looking, have friends, a girlfriend, no problem performing or public speaking.

I think I speak for most here when I say, fuck you.

bullshit (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36589710)

The difference between brains and beauty is that you're more or less born into good looks â" entitled, if you will. Intelligence? That takes work.

Bullshit. People who are born with a brain that handles math and abstract logic well are no less entitled than people who look good. If you're good at something that's in demand, there's hardly any effort involved in getting better at it.

"Entitlement crisis" is a red herring. (1)

sethstorm (512897) | about 3 years ago | (#36589712)

We aren't really losing our geeks, nor is there an entitlement problem - an argument made by someone who has contempt for US citizens.

While there are many who would rather point at those who aren't businesses as "entitled", there is no thought as to the idea that businesses are too entitled to having conditions go their way - for it is too easy to pit the world against a US citizen for an equally bad concept of "competitiveness".

Our geeks still exist, despite this veiled argument that our nation has a "skills mismatch". The only mismatch in skill that the US has is that we're not as pliant as other countries at being servile to business.

Preemptive Clarification to parent post: (1)

sethstorm (512897) | about 3 years ago | (#36589760)

First paragraph should read:

We aren't really losing our geeks, nor is there an entitlement problem - for education and entitlement based arguments are made by people who have contempt for US citizens

Fallacy allert. (1)

RyuuzakiTetsuya (195424) | about 3 years ago | (#36589720)

I'll believe this the second you can show me a true Scots man.

What the mainstream society has appreciated about geeks is passion, joy and intelligence. It's come about to be our time, but some of us aren't socially adjusted to be in the lime light. No big deal.

Eh? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36589728)

...the culture so much that no one appreciates an actual geek anymore

You mean carnival performer who does disgusting acts? The original geeks.

False (3, Insightful)

devphaeton (695736) | about 3 years ago | (#36589738)

Intelligence can be optimized with effort, but I think it's more something you're born with or not. I hate to be like that, but I think that some people are just smarter than others. (There is a HUGE difference between just being smart and what you do with it, however- nature vs. nurture, etc).

Nowadays, it is a pop-culture trend. Dumb chicks running around with the horn rimmed glasses because they want to look smart. Everyone THINKS they are geniuses. The self-esteem boosting tactics of the 90s have worked tremendously. Loads of Dunning-Kreuger effect abounds. The younger kids are calling themselves "nerds", which is something I or people my age probably never would have done. You didn't *want* to be a nerd in the 1980s. You hated yourself for it. The only solace you got out of it was watching NOVA or reruns of the original Star Trek with your friends, if you had any.

Okay... I'll stop here before I get bitter.

IP (1)

michaelmalak (91262) | about 3 years ago | (#36589742)

Are geeks upset because their term has been co-opted? Isn't that an IP violation? Are geeks now in favor of IP protection?

BTW, the same thing happened with Ron Paul and the Tea Party movement. After raising $6m on Dec. 16, 2007, the anniversary of the Tea Party, neocon radio show hosts in early 2008 started trumpeting a war-supporting "Tea Party" (but somehow "small government", presumably in domestic affairs but not military ones). The neocons leveraged the $6m investment from individual Ron Paul donors (small donations) and turned it to work for them. There is of course no legal IP claim to the 2007 use of "Tea Party", but I sure do feel like my $500 donation in 2007 was stolen by the neocons and that it was an IP theft.

You are basically born with intelligence too (4, Insightful)

ranton (36917) | about 3 years ago | (#36589744)

I always find it odd that smart people think those who work out 10 hours a week, eat carefully, and take effort in upkeeping their appearance are just born with their looks. But then when they are able to breeze through school without studying and learn new things with little effort, that takes real skill.

I have done alot of tutoring along the years, and have seen people who work alot harder than me struggle on topics that came very naturally for me. I am not conceited enough to think I am successful just because of my hard work, while those who are successful because of "just" their looks had everything handed to them. I have had my fair share of luck too. Almost every very smart person I know (the "actual" geeks the article is mentioning) was largely born with the ability to learn faster than most people. Sure most of them worked hard too, but usually not as hard as the people who struggled through College Algebra.

The abilities you are born with are also going to primarily determine the areas you work on developing. If you are born athletic, you are more likely to spend effort on physical activities because it will provide you the most immediate payoff. And if you are born with higher intelligence, you will spend more time reading books.

For the TL;DR folks... (1)

jaskelling (1927116) | about 3 years ago | (#36589750)

Misuse & annexation of the word "geek" is changing its meaning in language, much like "gay" changed from the 1930's to present day. Discuss. (Either a new word will come along to take its place, or the geeks will reclaim it in time.)

Other "fake" geeks. (1)

Seumas (6865) | about 3 years ago | (#36589766)

What I really love is when someone (typically a female, it seems, but not always) makes a big deal about how they're such a geek or how much they love video games. Some are actual video game "journalists" or "commentators". However, when you visit their twitter or facebook or website, you see that it's plastered with nothing but headshots and photos of themselves. Usually professionally done. Sometimes the photos make up like two thirds of the page. A pathetic attempt to ride "geek" or "videogames" to internet (and eventually television or other medium) stardom. It really kind of irks me, though I guess I just don't give a fuck in the overall scheme. Just really sad.

really? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36589782)

This is so stupid.
Pointless nonsensical post.

um.... (1)

Charliemopps (1157495) | about 3 years ago | (#36589788)

"If the hallmark of real geekiness — of America — is determination..."

See, on that point right there, you're wrong. So there is a problem with fake geeks, and even more troubling, the author of this article is one of them.

Re:um.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36589820)

If you spelled em correctly, it might work better.

Geeks are ... (1)

giorgist (1208992) | about 3 years ago | (#36589806)

Well for the populous Geeks are a form of Nerd which was typified by movies like Revenge of the nerds.
They never where like that though. Geeks are in fact more social, live more interesting lives do extreme sports and all of the above.
The "Jocks" or whatever you call them that do the cheer leaders in the end don't amount to much more than stuffing shopping bags for a living and following sport teams and committing to a single brand car as if that shows manliness.

I guess slowly in the very connected world Geeks also are better value from early on as well. Being different and not going with the flow is a positive quality now,

Re:Geeks are ... (1)

DigiShaman (671371) | about 3 years ago | (#36589972)

Jocks will also do the type of jobs many Geeks wont do. I'm of the opinion that everyone has a unique place in this world; categorically more so than anything.

Work for it? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36589830)

The summary implies geeks have to "work hard" to be intelligent. In my mind being a geek isn't trying to be smart, it's just their natural affinity for learning and finding out things that makes them smart. It's like saying a sports player tries hard to play sports, but playing sports is fun for them, they aren't trying to play sports to get better, they're doing what they enjoy and becoming good at it as a byproduct.

Some american explain me why : (1)

unity100 (970058) | about 3 years ago | (#36589872)

You are the ones exaggerating - no - actually over-exaggerating such things. nerd, geek, this, that - they dont have much importance or significance in other cultures of the world. however they seem to be something common and discriminating in usa, peculiarly. in most countries of the world, a kid who is good at his/her lessons will be not only appreciated, but envied by its peers. everyone knows s/he will have a good future in front.

however, this, suddenly turns into a liability in usa. why ? angst/jealousy towards someone whom you are subconsciously aware that going to have a successful life ?

really, whats the reason for this suppression/debasement intelligent/different individuals in american culture ? can anyone give me a good explanation ?

Re:Some american explain me why : (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36590018)

The actual answer is, you are an American who has lived in America your entire life and does not understand any culture other than that of America. Also, you exhibit very little understanding of human nature and no real intelligence or imagination. Please don't even attempt to make comparative cultural observations, you have nothing you could possibly contribute to an intelligent discussion

Of course there is a stereotype of the socially awkward person who is skilled at some technical endeavor, in every single country in the world.

Started with Steph the Geek (1)

Gothmolly (148874) | about 3 years ago | (#36589888)

When any AW with chunky glasses can claim to be a "geek" the term is doomed. Real geeks dont CALL themselves geeks.

And jocks are "football geeks"... (1)

mypalmike (454265) | about 3 years ago | (#36589918)

A geek is an outcast. Having interests does not make you a geek. Everyone has interests.

Here's a quick acid test: If you've never been shoved into a [trashcan, school locker, schoolbus floor], or given a [wedgie, bag of human feces, punch in the face], or otherwise been routinely mistreated by "cool kids" (3 years or more of this sort of daily harassment might suffice), you're not a geek. You are a normal person who has interests.

Terminology (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36589944)

I think part of the problem is that the nomenclature is getting abused, "geek" is in of itself not much to aspire to, since it basically denotes fandom.
GET TO KNOW YOUR NERD/GEEK/DORK ARCHETYPES:
Nerd - the "jock" of the trio, notable for attention to and achievement within academia
Geek - the superfan, the obsessive, the angelfire fan site creator. Note that both otaku and people who call into sports radio are geeks, there is no "geeky" area of fandom, comic books are no more geeky than soap operas
Dork - the socially inept, usually due to some combination of the above nerdyness or geekyness, but sometimes attributable to plain old shyness
When most of us are talking about classic geekery, we're picturing a specific combination of the above traits, but the internet has enabled all of us to spend days/weeks/minths researching the miscellania about ANY given topic, not just those within the canon of classic geekery.

No one appreciates an actual geek anymore (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36589966)

Geeks were never appreciated at any time by anyone. Beside some rare occasions where geeks are handled like valuables. One exception is the stabilization or improvement of power. Something like building an atomic bomb or writing Stuxnet. In most cases geeks are nerds and social dorks. As by definition a geek is a dork with one explanatory property e.g. writing code in 10% of the time which is still above average. Or understanding a complex logic issue X and produce a solution Y for it.

In short: geeks and other people who have similar traits have never been considered to be respectful persons. This has not changed and it will not change in future. Therefore the pitiful post is just lame and unnecessary. You also could complain about wet water. Honestly get a life... Oh no wait. I guess that was the problem in the first place.
   

No Worries (1)

simm_s (11519) | about 3 years ago | (#36589992)

Only a geek would not appreciate being imitated! Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery! Don't worry about appreciation, no one has really appreciated geeks before so what else is new? :-)

He-man woman haters club. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36590004)

Any male celebrity who says he's a "geek" is accepted without question. Any female celeb who says so is accused of pandering.
Posting as anon because I know you can't stand being called out on your own bullshit.

Arrogant crap (1)

yarnosh (2055818) | about 3 years ago | (#36590020)

What a load of elitist shit: "Intelligence? That takes work." People are born with intelligence just as much as good looks. Both can be equally enhanced with some work. Geeks aren't intelligent because they've "worked" at it. They're just intelligent and happen to follow some sort of passion. That's it. This chick needs to get over herself. Now, I'm not saying people don't misuse the word "geek," but let's quit it with the arrogance and elitism.

I should also point out that not all people that would be considered "geeks" are especially intelligent. Sci-fi geeks, for example, can be pretty dim in my experience. Just because you're passionate about something doesn't mean you're intelligent. I would normally call an exceptionally intelligent and passionate person a "nerd." Nerds are much more academic, IMO. The way I like to make the distinction is to say that Lisa Simpson is a nerd. Milhouse and comic book store guy are geeks. Well, I suppose you could break it down even further and say Milhouse is a dork. Comic book store guy is a geek. In the real world there is going to be some overlap, but those are the basic categories. Intelligence is just one factor.

Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...