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Australian Firm Targets Apple and Google Cloud Music Services

Unknown Lamer posted about 3 years ago | from the can-i-patent-urls dept.

Cloud 37

littlekorea writes "The online music services of Apple and Google are likely to be challenged by a Sydney-based company that has been granted three new patents around file hashing and deduplication. The patents are being managed by Kevin Bermeister, of Altnet/Kazaa fame, who believes that the technology behind P2P music services has been commercialized by the music industry without license." In semi-related patent troll news, Google is being sued over using interactive panoramic images in Streetview. Because QuickTime VR didn't exist years before the patent was filed.

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Australian firm patent in my pants (1)

slashpot (11017) | about 3 years ago | (#36672488)

There's at least 1 Australian firm patent in my pants!

Streetview is Myst (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36672514)

They built panoramic images with computer graphics then let you click to move through them in 1993. It was hypercard, sure, but still the same thing.

Sigh, how did I know this was a patent troll (4, Interesting)

bruce_the_moose (621423) | about 3 years ago | (#36672536)

just by reading the title? I hoped "Australian Firm Targets Apple and Google" meant they were going to, oh, I don't know, produce a product and compete? But, no, targeting can only mean one thing any more: lawsuits.

Re:Sigh, how did I know this was a patent troll (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36672818)

I thought they might have meant the firms with missiles. Oh well.

Hell yeah! About time the "innovators" got paid! (1)

Kamiza Ikioi (893310) | about 3 years ago | (#36675676)

Yes, but it's an ingenius patent troll! Now the pirates get to sit back and make bank on all the companies who basically road in on the backs of pirates, who quite honestly DID invent the first "cloud" with P2P. I wish we had more trolls like that. It's kind of a load of crap that some smart kids in school make incredible technology, then get crushed by the likes of the RIAA, only to have some big shot company stroll along, throw money at the record labels, and do basically the same thing without actually innovating... and it's not like these companies came along and at least bought the technology. No, they waited for the original creators to get sued into oblivion, and then appeared out of nowhere like they're Jesus-F*cking-Christ of the Cloud.

Ok, I way over stated that. But I am laughing my ass off that at least someone is getting their just rewards and throwing punches in the other direction.

RTFA - Kazaa.com (1)

Kamiza Ikioi (893310) | about 3 years ago | (#36675744)

Kazaa is the competing service, now Kazaa.com, which they still run. You'd know that if you read the article, saw that Kazaa is still operational as a legitimate business, and is a competing service, and is the company the patents are based on. It was worth the hit to my Karma to make a second post to the same thread to make a completely separate point.

Then I read your sig and it all made sense why you wouldn't get past the title, fanboy blindness. Too bad none of your Mod's bothered to read the article either.

Google streetviews (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36672562)

Dear Google, prior art on this was posted in the ACM SigGraph Journal in the latter 1980's.
BTW, did we say Oklahoma loves you lately?

Haha, oh how cute (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36672640)

The Aussies think the U.S. Gov't and U.S. corporations care about them. Simply adorable!

Re:Haha, oh how cute (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36673102)

Well... they have US patents, granted by the US government, that are being infringed. So, yes, the US corporations have to care about them.

Re:Haha, oh how cute (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36673268)

The Aussies think the U.S. Gov't and U.S. corporations care about them. Simply adorable!

Well... they have US patents, granted by the US government, that are being infringed. So, yes, the US corporations have to care about them.

There is no reason to put the word "Australian" in the headline, this is a purely internal US problem.

So, eh, there is bunches of prior art (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36672718)

So this is a patent on any implementation of the following?:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Content-addressable_storage
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venti

Or any similar system like git, nonsense on just shows how horrible the worlds IP troll is (the worlds IP troll is primarily the US since it wants the rest of the world to also be full of horrible patent trolls). Oh the horrors, oh the lameness.

Not QTVR (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36672860)

“Spatial referenced photographic system with navigation arrangement”

OP, here's your Jump To Conclusions mat.

Re:Not QTVR (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36673688)

For those of you who have never heard of that gadget before I'll try to explain. You see, it is a mat that you put on the floor and it has different 'conclusions' written on it that you can jump to.

Re:Not QTVR (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36675270)

I seem to recall QTVR having optional navigation, the ability to set clickable areas (such as on a doorway in a room) that would move you to the next QTVR. I am fairly sure I have seen these things in virtual tour applications.

Something has got to give. (3, Interesting)

pablo_max (626328) | about 3 years ago | (#36672914)

Seriously, this is getting to be freaking ridiculous. No one is allowed to do anything. No one can have any service because some fuck tard has a patent for some idea which he either was never able to implement or bought from some other fuck tard who was not able to implement it.
This system is completely broken. Something has got to give.

Re:Something has got to give. (3, Funny)

Wovel (964431) | about 3 years ago | (#36673416)

I have a trademark on the phrase fuck tard used in any online communication. Please visit imatroll.com to pay your license fee.

Re:Something has got to give. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36673834)

Your phrase "fuck tard" is a related/derivative work of "fuck lard", originally a product distributed by some not-necessarily-too-bright ('tard) inmates with kitchen duty. Maybe they weren't too smart, but they provided a much sought-after product that enhanced the smoothness of the user experience when all the competition had was spit. So they may claim otherwise, but the patent trolls weren't the first ones to be slippery. Please don't disrespect for the original "fuck tards" by associating them with patent trolls. The original "fuck tards" and "fuck lard" don't require any monetary license fee, users need exchange only smiles and happy noises.

Re:Something has got to give. (1)

neoform (551705) | about 3 years ago | (#36673574)

>No one is allowed to do anything.

Now you're catching on... massive corporations will own the rights to everything, then will form a conglomerate (or simply merge), then the rich will control your every move.

End game.

Re:Something has got to give. (1)

StripedCow (776465) | about 3 years ago | (#36673836)

America used to be the land of the free, but right now I guess we all better move to Europe!

Re:Something has got to give. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36674144)

ROFL.

Re:Something has got to give. (1)

pablo_max (626328) | about 3 years ago | (#36681160)

To be fair. I have done this already. My wife and I moved to Germany, thought not due to the patent system, but rather to give our children a better education.

Getting completely ridiculous (2)

ClaraBow (212734) | about 3 years ago | (#36673010)

I don't think any company can introduce a new service or product without being hit with a lawsuit! The only winners here are the lawyers who are makings lots of money at the expensive of the consumer as companies just pass on the costs. Seriously, we need some reforms -- now!

Re:Getting completely ridiculous (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36673472)

True. While other markets can do their business without caring about the software patent minefield, in the US it seems that as soon as you get on the radar, vultures arrive to collect their toll. If I were running a company producing (Android) mobile devices, I'd already keep far away of the USA, because MS and Apple can't kill my business (except by shelling out cash to buy the company).

Re:Getting completely ridiculous (2)

Rich0 (548339) | about 3 years ago | (#36673874)

Well, avoiding the US market isn't exactly a smart move - it is a pretty huge segment of the profits considering the buying power people have, plus the cultural power the US exerts over the rest of the world. Do you think that iPhones would be as fashionable in Denmark if some famous actor in the US didn't use it?

Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying that the rest of the world just gets up every morning and reads People magazine to tell them how to think. However, a dollar invested promoting a product in the US gains a lot of mindshare among people that have money to spend.

All that said, agree totally that the US legal system is in need of MASSIVE reform. It seems like half our economy is lawyers and finance - two industries that don't actually create anything of real value. Sure, R&D is a "service" and isn't terribly tangible, but the fact is that mankind as a whole benefits incrementally when somebody comes up with a new kind of transistor, or even a new kind of toothpaste.

Google May Not Be Effected (2)

DuckFOO (736584) | about 3 years ago | (#36673088)

I recently read an article on Ars about this and the thought there is that Google will not be doing deduplication in order to avoid lawsuits. Link: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/07/are-google-music-and-amazon-cloud-player-illegal.ars [arstechnica.com]

Re:Google May Not Be Effected (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36674358)

Plus they can just let the filesystem take care of that behind the scenes.

Re:Google May Not Be Effected (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36748070)

And Apple isn't even storing the users music so they don't need to deduplicate, Apple's service lets you stream the music you already bought from them and they scan your music collection to identify which other tracks you own and you'll be streaming Apple's copies of those tracks.

Looks like this lawsuit will be going nowhere fast.

P.S. You mean "affected" rather than "effected".

Too funny ... (1)

gstoddart (321705) | about 3 years ago | (#36673206)

The patents are being managed by Kevin Bermeister, of Altnet/Kazaa fame, who believes that the technology behind P2P music services has been commercialized by the music industry without license.

Oh god, that's just hilarious. I so want to see someone from Kazaa screwing over the music industry based on not properly licensing stuff.

But, really, de-duplification has been commercial use for some number of years ... and identifying files by hashes and the like is hardly new ... so I think from what I've seen in TFS, these sound like stupid patents.

If we could cause pain to the music industry and Microsoft, Oracle, and SCO out of this ... I think it would be great. Can someone get on that?

Re:Too funny ... (1)

king neckbeard (1801738) | about 3 years ago | (#36673642)

Actually, the big labels are opposing 'music lockers', and they aren't the targets of this lawsuit. Nailing the music industry for patent infringement is difficult, given that they've resisted just about every relevant technological advance in the last century.

Re:Too funny ... (1)

gstoddart (321705) | about 3 years ago | (#36673718)

Nailing the music industry for patent infringement is difficult, given that they've resisted just about every relevant technological advance in the last century.

Except the ones that give them control over what we do ... DRM, Root Kits, CDs which aren't conformant to the specs, IPs as personally identifiable information, co-opting of the legal system ...

They just refuse to allow any technology which allows us to make decisions.

Quite frankly, at this point, even if they're not involved in this litigation, I'd be in favor of anything which just sorta side-swiped them for good measure to give them a friendly "screw you" from the rest of us.

Re:Too funny ... (1)

king neckbeard (1801738) | about 3 years ago | (#36673826)

They have taken to DRM fairly quickly, but I don't think frivlous lawsuits really count as a technological advances. But as I said, the record labels are fighting Google's services themselves. Kazaa and the RIAA are on the same side of this issue in being anti-innovator.

Re:Too funny ... (1)

gstoddart (321705) | about 3 years ago | (#36674010)

Kazaa and the RIAA are on the same side of this issue in being anti-innovator.

Wow, did someone tear a rift in space-time?

The enemy of my enemy is apparently still a patent troll and an asshat.

Re:Too funny ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36674204)

Wow, did someone tear a rift in space-time?

Yeah, that was me, sorry. Lots of beans on the 4th, you know how it goes...

People say this is ridiculous... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36673932)

but do they know how this actually impacts them personally? In other words, why do people have feelings about Google, Apple, and Kazaa fighting things out? Do people know how they are impacted in the end? Why do people care?

Are corporations the new deities of modern culture that people will have feelings for when they are perceived to be attacked by another deity? I can't understand why people feel this is ridiculous other than it is emotional.

If I submit a patent that I believe someone infringes, do I not have a right to discover if infringement happened and be repaired for the damage? Do people believe corporations should steal ideas from little people leaving them with no protection? I think these are ridiculous ideas.

Patents do not seem to be the problem - it is the patenting itself that is the problem. It seems that the quality of patents definitely need to come into question as once the patent is issued, there is power to disrupt that comes with it.

Content Addressable Storage using a MD5 hash (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36673936)

This has GOT to be prior art.
What about deduping in XFS?

Just how does this work? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36677514)

I don't understand how this works. How do you get a patent on something that has been done for years? Even if they surfaced a submarine patent, couldn't you argue in court that they haven't been aggressively defending their patent and thus automatically invalidate it?

trolls/NPEs (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36728850)

When patent trolls [youtube.com] regularly collect triple the amount of damages awarded to practicing entities in patent litigation, it is certainly no surprise that more NPEs ("patent trolls") are springing up and becoming ever more aggressive. They have everything to gain and relatively little to lose by filing patent enforcement actions. I fear that the only way to minimize the threat that PAEs pose to small businesses is by eliminating their incentives to assert patents -- i.e., by limiting the damages that they can collect. In the meantime, you can't really blame a company like Intellectual Ventures for taking advantage of weaknesses in the legal system.

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