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Thunderbird Unseats Evolution In Ubuntu 11.10

Unknown Lamer posted more than 3 years ago | from the outlook-clones-no-longer-cool dept.

Mozilla 283

An anonymous reader writes "Coinciding with the recent release of Mozilla Thunderbird 5 and its 400 performance and stability fixes, Canonical has decided that it's now fit for adoption in Ubuntu — and as of version 11.10, Thunderbird will replace Evolution as the default mail program. You can download the second alpha of Ubuntu 11.10 today and give Thunderbird a whirl."

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BFT (3, Insightful)

cadeon (977561) | more than 3 years ago | (#36682900)

I've always hated evolution. Thunderbird is much cleaner.

Re:BFT (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36682994)

So the creationists were wrong.

It isn't Intelligent Design that will supplant Evolution. Unintelligent Design [mozilla.org] will.

Re:BFT (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36683062)

I've always hated evolution. Thunderbird is much cleaner.

Look, can you religious nut-jobs take your "intelligent design" and thunder throwing sky gods elsewhere? Evolution is a well founded scientific...

What? Email programs?
*Ahem* Sorry for the interruption, carry on.

Re:BFT (5, Insightful)

poetmatt (793785) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683064)

absolutely. I also agree with the commenter below, get rid of empathy and go back to pidgin, and then we'll be a step closer to ubuntu not being crap.

Re:BFT (1)

operator_error (1363139) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683200)

Yes I agree. And while we're ditching Empathy, can we get Ekiga back for SIP calls that 'just work', or otherwise Jitsi?

Re:BFT (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36683898)

Ok I am receiving contradictory information and I am definitely confused...

Coinciding with the recent release of Mozilla Thunderbird 5 and its 400 performance and stability fixes, Canonical has decided that it's now fit for adoption in Ubuntu

That suggests they have some stringent standards, especially considering the number of people who have been using Thunderbird for years without issue.

They have such stringent standards... and yet ... they really think that going with PulseAudio instead of ALSA by default is the smoothest, most problem-free experience they could deliver to their users? PulseAudio works okay I suppose, right up until you want to do anything even slightly unusual such as run a program as a different local user without crippling its audio for no good reason. Then it fails. Then they tell you running it as a system-wide daemon is not recommended. Then it's a big pain in the ass for no good reason where ALSA would have just worked. Then it's "no, we know how you should and should not be using your programs and listening to your audio, and I'm sorry but you have deviated away from how we want you to do things". No, I'm not accepting that. If I wanted that, I'd use Windows or OSX.

Maybe you guys like artificial restrictions, maybe you like moving from a system that worked to a more complex system that sometimes works, but I just don't see the damned point. Are you afraid to hurt the PulseAudio developer's feelings or something?

NOTICE TO ALL DISTRO DEVELOPERS: Alsa has had DMIX for close to ten years now. It has been enabled by default with ALSA for at least seven years now. With DMIX there is no longer ANY GOOD REASON to use these idiotic software sound daemons. They are redundant layers of trash. They are adipose code that can only introduce bugs and bloat. They add restrictions where there were none before, as side-effects of their design. They are a step backwards. They are a devolution.

The 0.001% of users who really need to play sound remotely over a network, and absolutely cannot accomplish that task by downloading/streaming an mp3 or other audio file, is NO GOOD REASON to make a useless sound daemon the default setup for everyone. This kind of decision-making just blows my mind.

Compared to that unnecessary bloat, why are they so strict about Thunderbird? Makes no sense. Have they an axe to grind or something?

Thunderbird is the best for Linux (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36683236)

The only decent mail client on Linux is Thunderbird. Everything else crashes, locks up, and doesn't set up as easy.

I've tried 'em all and every major release, I try them again - same result every time so far: crap.

Re:BFT (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36683218)

I agree. I couldn't stand all the evolution plugins in the system framework that made it impossible to remove either. Thunderbird is a great all in one package to install.

Re:BFT (2)

ZankerH (1401751) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683266)

>implying the ubuntu team won't lock thunderbird in with a gazillion "system integration hacks" just like they did with evolution

Re:BFT (1)

LordLimecat (1103839) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683428)

Well, theres always Ubuntu derivatives that keep the good parts and hack out the bad.

Re:BFT (0)

LordLimecat (1103839) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683398)

Its a lot easier to have evolution once youve tried to apt-get uninstall evolution*, and then wonder why it nuked your whole Gnome environment. For added giggles, figure out why so much depends on evolution-data-server even when evolution is gone.

And then try to figure out in what way Evolution is superior to Outlook Web Access off of exchange 2010. (protip, its not).

Re:BFT (2)

Tarlus (1000874) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683542)

This! Why are GNOME's core dependencies so entangled with Evolution components, anyway?

It's good, but (2)

Compaqt (1758360) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683418)

Agree.

I like Thunderbird because:
-I like to keep the same apps across platforms
-The availability of plugins
-The fact that plugins can be programmed more easily than for Evolution (do they have them? are they done in C?)

Yet at the same time, this continues the general theme of Ubuntu keeping on messing things around and changing them. Pick one thing and stick with it! F-spot -> Shotwell, Pidgin -> Empathy, drop GIMP, drop OpenOffice (from CD), Gnome -> Unity, etc.

Re:BFT (1)

xtracto (837672) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683430)

Sure, but the problem with this announcement (that Ubuntu will drop Evolution) shows everything that is wrong with Ubuntu. Since the times of Ubuntu 5.10 the team makes every effort possible to change the base programs on each release. Being it the network configuration application, the chat application, the multimedia player, etc, etc etc.

I think it was around 8.04 that my dad asked me to reinstall Windows because he was tired of having to learn a new way to do things on each new version.

Re:BFT (1)

gaelfx (1111115) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683508)

Agreed. I can't believe it took so long for this change to happen on Ubuntu, considering that it's supposed to be focused on usability and Evolution clearly doesn't fit that bill. I've been using Thunderbird for a couple years now, and I have to say that it has really improved a lot (especially in getting server info, thank goodness) and deserves a seat at the table.

Evolution (4, Interesting)

geek (5680) | more than 3 years ago | (#36682912)

I never liked Evolution. It tried too hard to be Outlook. It was just as convoluted to configure, was buggy as sin and used an enormous amount of screen real estate. Thunderbird has it's issues here also but it's been far better than Evolution for some time now. I'm probably not the target audience anymore though, I've been using webmail for some time and have no intentions of switching back to a client.

Re:Evolution (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36682982)

I just remove it and use gnome-gmail and cloudsn to integrate GMail with the ubuntu desktop. Works nicely.

Re:Evolution (1)

sakdoctor (1087155) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683076)

I'm curious why you don't just use IMAP with gmail?

Gmail has the dubious honor of being the least shit webmail in the whole history of shitty webmail. But if you're on your desktop machine anyway, why not use a local application which is already wired into the notification system?
Seriously, "cloud stuff" seems to be about making solved problems more convoluted for no gain.

Re:Evolution (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36683138)

I just like the web interface. In mid-90s when I started using email I started with a web interface (shitty, I must admit). I just never got used to using desktop apps for this.

Re:Evolution (2)

repetty (260322) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683470)

I just like the web interface. In mid-90s when I started using email I started with a web interface (shitty, I must admit). I just never got used to using desktop apps for this.

That's like driving a car by running next to it, holding on the steering wheel.

Re:Evolution (1)

icebraining (1313345) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683172)

Google's IMAP support is pretty shitty, AFAIK. At least there is plenty of complainers, and here Alpine kept losing the connection (which didn't happen with my installation of Dovecot on a home server, even when I was remote).

Re:Evolution (1)

LordLimecat (1103839) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683480)

Im not sure what you mean by "imap support is shitty". It supports IMAP; any awfulness would be caused by an awful email client (ahem, Outlook...).

Re:Evolution (1)

Shoe Puppet (1557239) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683856)

And by the fact that IMAP is designed for a classical folder hierarchy which Gmail does not provide. I actually ditched it because I couldn't find a way to use it both via IMAP and via the Web interface that satisfied me.

Re:Evolution (1)

Moryath (553296) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683070)

As a longtime Tbird (and Firefox) user... my question for the Mozilla folks is, For Fuck's Sake Why Do You Keep Breaking Plugins??

Tbird 5 broke Lightning. AGAIN. Pain in the ass for those of us who actually like the (gag, yes I know it looks like outlook) idea of keeping our calendar in the same program we keep our email, since then it's Right There when we get an email about something that needs to be noted in the calendar.

Re:Evolution (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36683198)


Tbird 5 broke Lightning. AGAIN.

I just upgraded to TB5 yesterday. Lightning works just fine. I did have to upgrade to the 1.0b4 version from 1.0b2. But other than that, it works flawlessly.

Re:Evolution (2)

yarnosh (2055818) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683408)

I never understood the email-calendar connection. I don't see any advantage to having it in the same program. Switching to iCal is no more difficult than going to a different section of my email program. Generally I value keeping my email program fast and simple (thank you Mail.app). I cringe whenever I look at people's horrible email clients with a zillion different folders and functions.

Re:Evolution (1)

fragfoo (2018548) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683082)

I have always used webmail. I always found that to use a program to fetch mail to the local machine was odd when i could just log-on somewhere from anywhere and read what i want. If theres one thing that makes sense to be in the "cloud" thats mail.

Re:Evolution (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36683222)

If theres one thing that makes sense to be in the "cloud" thats mail.

Nothing makes sense in the cloud - nothing (unless you are using the cloud as a money-making exercise).

Re:Evolution (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36683388)

You're an idiot. Email is a perfectly good application of it. It's on remote servers, there's literally no reason to download it unless you want it to be accessible offline, or you want a backup copy. Otherwise the advantages of a content provider are immense: spreading your information over various geographical locations, which means faster access for you, a much better backup infrastructure than you can come up with at home, almost guaranteed reliability (I've seen gmail down once in my lifetime, I'm sure it has happened more than that but it has never affected me significantly).

Re:Evolution (1)

LordLimecat (1103839) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683502)

You do realize that you could consider every email server "in the cloud", right? Exchange servers for example store all the data on the server, not on the individual workstation.

Re:Evolution (1)

chrisinspace (1646549) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683272)

I use both. I sometimes like a mail client so I can check all of my email accounts simultaneously. Thunderbird lets me check both of my gmail accounts (one for real correspondence and one for newsletters, mailing lists, etc) and my university account all at once. I can also open a message from one account and forward or reply to it using a different address. I don't store any mail locally. I turn off "keep messages for this account on my computer". That's just a waste of disk space. It's also easier to purge old mail in a client when it's cleaning time. Going through page after page of gmail conversations and having to individually put a check next to each one takes forever! In a mail client you can hold shift and select a range. To quickly look at new messages from a specific account or search for a conversation gmail web interface is the way to go.

Re:Evolution (1)

NJRoadfan (1254248) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683308)

Most of my web accounts support IMAP. Clients like Thunderbird makes it easy to check all of them in one place and to archive (restrictions limit me from forwarding mail to one account). Quite a bit faster then logging into multiple websites.

Re:Evolution (1)

nevermore94 (789194) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683598)

Yes, Thunderbird and IMAP For The Win. I have several email address that I need to continue to monitor, one which has a quite small limit and a Gmail account with its 7+ GB of space. I frequently archive my older account to my Gmail account which is a simple drag and drop in Thunderbird.

Re:Evolution (1)

yarnosh (2055818) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683504)

But you can have both. You can sync your gmail via IMAP when at your own computer and use the web when not. A dedicated email client is just so much faster and easier to use, IMO. Plus you can easily consolidate many different email accounts. I have 4, currently. For me webmail has always been a last resort. Like nice to have, but would never want to rely on it. Even gmail is kind of clunky compared to, say, Apple Mail.

Re:Evolution (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36683584)

I have always used webmail. I always found that to use a program to fetch mail to the local machine was odd when i could just log-on somewhere from anywhere and read what i want. If theres one thing that makes sense to be in the "cloud" thats mail.

Now you listen here, sonny. Back when we were your age, we had IMAP and POP! Those were protocols that gave us data so we could make whatever interface we dang well wanted with it! We could get mail from a text interface, we could get mail from a standalone client, heck, some of us could even write our OWN dag-blasted web interface for mail! And we liked it just fine! Not like you tykes with your GMail this and "gotta have everything on your phone" that. Not a single one of you spoiled brats know what's going on in the protocols behind the scene! None of you lazy runts can appreciate that, can you? Every one, complacent with their web 2.5 AJAX HTML5 Canvas Light Flashy SVG interface or whatever it is you do these days, wastin' all your time and processor power making a web browser act like an email client we've already got! We liked our standalone clients just fine! You kids...

Re:Evolution (1)

Just Some Guy (3352) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683636)

I always found that to use a program to fetch mail to the local machine was odd

...but then you advocate fetching mail to the local machine every time you view a message. If my boss sends me a message with a large embedded image, my email client will download it in the background while I'm doing other things. It's cached locally from then on and I can access it in an instant, even while offline. With webmail, my browser will download it in the foreground whenever I click on that message. It's not cached locally outside the browser, and there's a good chance that next time I open that message I'll have to wait for the image file to download again.

I have 400GB free on my laptop hard drive, and it's several orders of magnitude faster to fetch from than my Internet connection. Why not let my computer pre-download stuff for me so that it's ready when I want to access it?

Re:Evolution (1)

bemymonkey (1244086) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683780)

It's a holdover from the days before Gmail - back when Webmail interfaces sucked donkey balls. GMail was the first one to actually be usable, and it's still got some quirks that're annoying and non-customizable.

With a desktop client, you've got much more choice, and with Thunderbird's plugin infrastructure, more ways to customize and change things you don't like.

That said, this day and age... there's no point in using a dedicated desktop client unless you're just really used to it or an absolutely hardcore e-mail user. The GMail web interface fulfills all my needs perfectly...

Re:Evolution (1)

teh kurisu (701097) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683786)

I used to use a desktop mail client, because that was how I got new mail notifications.

(I found using Gmail notification widgets that then sent you to the Gmail web page too clumsy - if there's going to be something running on my computer, it might as well be a fully fledged mail app.)

Nowadays I get my mail pushed to my phone, so I don't need a notification on my computer any more. If I want to type out an email on a computer I just go to the Gmail website. It doesn't need to be open all the time.

Re:Evolution (1)

malignant_minded (884324) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683252)

I think that was the point. Evolution supports Exchange connections with plugin (not well but Outlook crashes all the time too, just not as bad) if I recall Thunderbird only supports IMAP connections.

Re:Evolution (1)

LordLimecat (1103839) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683528)

Evolution supports skimming data from the OWA interface. That barely counts as "exchange support". Call me when they get MAPI support, otherwise Im better off simply using the web interface.

Re:Evolution (1)

malignant_minded (884324) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683606)

Well Thunderbird doesn't even support that much. Also the webmail interface to certain Exchange versions does not have all the functionality if you use a browser other than IE.

Re:Evolution (1)

jojoba_oil (1071932) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683862)

Well Thunderbird doesn't even support that much. Also the webmail interface to certain Exchange versions does not have all the functionality if you use a browser other than IE.

And to support you with an example: OWA 2003 only offers search functionality to IE users.

Re:Evolution (2)

vegiVamp (518171) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683758)

Evolution does support MAPI, but Exchange 2010 broke it, and apparently nobody's fixing it.

Re:Evolution (1)

sqldr (838964) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683276)

It tried too hard to be Outlook

Which is ironic, because 'provider for microsoft exchange' can talk to exchange 2010, complete with calendar and addressbook. Evolution is still failing there.

Re:Evolution (1)

KiloByte (825081) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683432)

Have you tried mutt then? Works everywhere with nothing but ssh, and you can customize it or add support for anything you want in a few lines of shell.

And since you're already logged in to the server, procmail with all its power is just nearby. Try to beat that with any GUI client, and especially webmail.

About time (3, Insightful)

sakdoctor (1087155) | more than 3 years ago | (#36682980)

I like "close to how I set things up anyway", so that I don't have to fight against stupid defaults all the time. Purge evolution, purge empathy, install thunderbird, install pidgin. Done. That was the appeal of Ubuntu.

Though they've jumped the shark with unity, so ... I'll switch to Debian now I guess.

Re:About time (1)

geek (5680) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683042)

That's what I used to do also. I hate Empathy with a passion. More and more though I am using google talk in the web browser since I have a gmail tab open all the time anyway. I also switched to Arch thanks to all this Unity stuff. If they tighten Unity up though I'll give it another try. It's pretty horrible right now though.

Re:About time (1)

MonsterTrimble (1205334) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683254)

What really worries me is that a lot of the KDE people are putting resources into Telepathy and that Plasmoid thingy instead of working on Kopete. Kopete used to be light years ahead of everyone else, having webcam capability as well as a really attractive UI. I also adored the multiple profiles it supported. I first started pulling away when Pidgin gained facebook chat capability and Kopete took months to gain it. The last time I tried it on my LXDE laptop it wouldn't play nice with the message notifications. I could try it again but why? Pidgin is pretty close to having everything Kopete had and I have accepted the ugly ugly UI that Pidgin has. It's a pity though.

Re:About time (1)

LordLimecat (1103839) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683546)

Its very likely that the folks working Plasma are not the folks who worked on Kopete nor the folks who work on amaroK, etc.

Re:About time (1)

rubycodez (864176) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683086)

I bought I second hard disk just so I can prepare my exodus from Ubuntu (vmware workstation isn't suitable, need to work with the native devices). I switched over to Xubuntu for now, but am configuring the Debian XFCE from the XFCE/LXDE disk in my spare time. More loose ends to deal with than Ubuntu, such as usb device plugging permissions and 32 bit libraries needed for some things to work on amd64. But thus far forums have all the solutions. Don't bother with the LXDE, that's like a beta that still needs more work especially in the system management / config tools.

Re:About time (1)

Tarlus (1000874) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683628)

Dunno, I kinda like the way LXDE is set up now. I do agree that its configuration could be reorganized a bit but it's a great way to go lighter than XFCE without losing too much functionality. Yes, I said it, my hardware needs something lighter than XFCE...

Re:About time (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36683166)

You mean with pulse-audio (and now indicator-applet), removing that crap isn't even optional anymore, if you want a functional desktop.

Re:About time (1)

chrisinspace (1646549) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683336)

Here here...I hate Evolution. As a mail client, it's OK. I tried it and it had some nice features, but I could never get it where I liked it as much as Thunderbird. What drives me nuts about Evolution though, is that if you try to remove it, you get all kinds of dependency errors. The system basically tells you that you have to remove Gnome to get Evolution completely out.

Re:About time (1)

geek (5680) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683558)

Open Ubuntu Software Center, click on Installed Software on the left side. Selected Evolution, click remove. No dependency issues.

Re:About time (1)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683756)

Dependancy hell is terrible in Linux. I was trying to remove MySQL in Kubuntu, to install Percona, and it told me that it had to remove all of KDE if I wanted to remove MySQL. And I couldn't install Percona because it conflicted with MySQL. I understand some advantages of shared libraries, but sometimes they cause a lot of grief.

Re:About time (1)

Machtyn (759119) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683494)

Yep - that's the same for me, too. Since I'm still a Linux newb, it's "figure out how to purge Evolution and Empathy, figure out how to integrate Thunderbird".

Excellent (1)

healyp (1260440) | more than 3 years ago | (#36682984)

Now if they'll just put pidgin back in instead of empathy.

Download (5, Funny)

Dan East (318230) | more than 3 years ago | (#36682998)

You can download the second alpha of Ubuntu 11.10 today and give Thunderbird a whirl.

Wow, you have to download and install an entire OS distribution to try an email client.

Re:Download (1)

geek (5680) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683014)

If you wish to see how they are integrating it into the OS, yes. Duh

I am not surprised.... (1)

cyberkahn (398201) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683008)

I just haven't seen any significant innovation Evolution for some time now. I switched to Thunderbird a long time ago and haven't missed Evolution one bit. For one, the extensions support for Thunderbird makes it more appealing not to mention the ability to choose what is and isn't in my mail client. For example, if don't want to do calendaring from Thunderbird I don't add the extension.

Re:I am not surprised.... (1)

ilsaloving (1534307) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683190)

So what you're saying is, Evolution hasn't evolved?

best native KDE mailer? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36683010)

I've tried evolution and it's OK, but really want a good native KDE program. Kmail, to put it bluntly, sucks and is full of so many bugs it's almost unusable.

Does anyone have a good recommendation?

Re:best native KDE mailer? (2)

medlefsen (995255) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683238)

KMail is the only "native" mail app but, unlike gnome, KDE works well with thunderbird. With a little effort you can even make it use the KDE theme and dialogs. Not 100% ideal, but maybe 95%. And, after switching, I've been able to stop thinking about my mail client and actually get some work done.

Multiplatform Software (1)

Damnshock (1293558) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683012)

I believe it to be a good move from Canonical as you could find the same software on Windows

Besides, it can't be worse than Evolution :P

Regards

Re:Multiplatform Software (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36683116)

Perhaps they should rename Evolution: Intelligent_Design

Or as an alternative... (1)

emuls (1926384) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683020)

apt-get install thunderbird (or your distro's equivalent)

It's about time... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36683066)

Seriously. I welcome the date when evolution and it's bloat hit the trash bucket. It was always a software roulette determining if removing the evolution package would "convienently" uninstall 90% of Gnome.

Good (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36683100)

I prefer it greatly myself, but Evolution is stagnant. Maybe this will motivate them.

Good! (1)

danbuter (2019760) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683110)

One of the first things I always did when I was updating Ubuntu was install Thunderbird. It's a great program. I also use it on my Win7 computer.

what about exchange support (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36683134)

There is an effort to support exchange web services in evolution with the new evolution-ews plugin. Does Thunderbird have anything like this?

Re:what about exchange support (1)

Tarlus (1000874) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683698)

The best luck I've had in Thunderbird is to use the 'Exchange Provider for Lightning' add-on to support an Exchange calendar, and then hoping like hell the Exchange server has the IMAP service running for mail. But that's about it.

In other news: (1)

macson_g (1551397) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683180)

In other news: desktop mail clients lost 92% of marketshare to web-based stuff.

Re:In other news: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36683270)

That's what I don't get. The last time I used an actual email client it was pine. I've used only webmail since 1999.

Re:In other news: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36683526)

What remains is the best 8% :)

Re:In other news: (1)

betterunixthanunix (980855) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683740)

A lot of "power users" use email programs like Thunderbird. I know that a lot of people like Google's approach to threads in Gmail, but to be perfectly honest I prefer a tree view, particularly on busy mailing lists where conversations often fork. I also don't know of any webmail clients that discourage top posting, nor any which have decent Usenet support (yes, there are still good conversations on technical topics on Usenet). There is also the issue of being unable to use PGP or S/MIME with your webmail, excepting a few cheap hacks like FireGPG (yes, it is a cheap hack) and snake-oil solutions like Hushmail.

Exchange connectivity? (3, Interesting)

dousette (562546) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683204)

How does Thunderbird 5 handle full Exchange connectivity (including Calendaring, Contacts, Tasks, etc)? That is my main reason for sticking with Evolution.

Re:Exchange connectivity? (1)

sqldr (838964) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683298)

Flaky, but it works.. most of the time :-) Even with 2010

http://gitorious.org/lightning-exchange-provider/pages/Home

Re:Exchange connectivity? (1)

blizz017 (1617063) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683452)

Unfortunately some of us are still stuck with Exchange 2003, so we're still SOL for the most part.

Re:Exchange connectivity? (1)

repetty (260322) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683500)

How does Thunderbird 5 handle full Exchange connectivity (including Calendaring, Contacts, Tasks, etc)? That is my main reason for sticking with Evolution.

Flaky, but it works.. most of the time :-) Even with 2010

So you're saying it's just like Outlook... cool.

Re:Exchange connectivity? (1)

jawtheshark (198669) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683322)

As far as I know: not at all. You get POP3, IMAP and I think a few connectors to free email systems (But I'm not sure those are still required, at least GMail allows IMAP) Even the lightning pluging doesn't seem to work well for calendaring.

If you're locked to Exchange, the only way to get it on Linux is use Evolution and last time I did that, it had to be done using OWA. That might have changed, though... That was a long time ago.

Re:Exchange connectivity? (1)

LordNimon (85072) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683552)

You can use DavMail to convert Exchange into IMAP/POP/CalDav/LDAP.

Re:Exchange connectivity? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36683576)

+1 davmail is great

Addressbook (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36683214)

I'm really surprised they're doing this before they fix Thunderbird's Addressbook. How they still have not implemented allowing as many email addresses as you want to add for a person is beyond me.

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=118665

Re:Addressbook (3)

Just Some Guy (3352) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683728)

And along those lines, I wish they'd decouple message preferences from the address book. For example, I get a sales newsletter from an online computer parts retailer we all know and love, and the only way to tell Thunderbird to always display the images from that sender is to add them to my address book and set an option there. Why, oh why? Thunderbird already uses SQLite for other stuff, so why can't it have a table like showimages (address varchar, show boolean) instead of making me litter my contact database?

Finally (1)

Arancaytar (966377) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683302)

I've been using Thunderbird forever, and have been hating Ubuntu's insistent pushing of Evolution as long. It can be disabled, but its backend is integrated with the gnome panel and calendar, which is impossible to connect with Thunderbird. Worse, Evolution is inferior where features, addons as well as IMAP are concerned (I haven't tested Evolution's POP). Synchronization takes forever, the folder structure is rigid and clashes with that of Googlemail, and the interface periodically freezes when displaying large folders.

Getting rid of it almost makes up for Unity, but not quite.

Re:Finally (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36683796)

Fellow evolution and ubuntu-hater here, but you're actually a bit unfair to canonical in this case. The entanglement of the mail-client with the desktop is *not* the doing of Canonical, it seems to be more of a result by the general retardedness and incompetence of the Gnome developers, since it's the same in any other distribution.

Evolution Dependencies (2)

Curunir_wolf (588405) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683404)

Good news! Now if they could just rip out all those Evolution dependencies, maybe I could install a functional Gnome desktop without all the Evolution crap that I never use.

Exchange support (1)

argonaut (37085) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683460)

Is Thunderbird able to work well with Exchange yet?

Re:Exchange support (1)

andrewd18 (989408) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683750)

Yes and no. Yes, in that it sends and receives e-mails just fine. No, in that Exchange calendar support (which we use heavily here at my office) is still ridiculously fubar, even with the Lightning addon. [comments based on Thunderbird 3.5 & Lightning about 3 months ago]

Re:Exchange support (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36683912)

I dunno. Does Evolution work well with Exchange yet? The key phrase being "work well".

Day late and a dollar short... (0)

geminidomino (614729) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683530)

My first thought was to AOL (say "me too!" for all you young'ns) the myriad "Evolution sucks posts" but then I realized... BFD. A distro's next release including a better mail client by default is a good thing, until one considers that said distro has been going out of its way to piss on stability and usability for about 4 releases now (or 6 if you go back to putting in pulseaudio...)

Why foist applications onto people? (1)

MacTO (1161105) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683580)

I know the big thing about Ubuntu is that it is ready to go out of the box (so to speak), but people are always complaining about the default programs. And if you changed them to what the complainers wanted, other people would complain about the changes.

So why not give "advanced users" the option to install just the programs they want so that they can add in what they want later without a mess of orphaned packages. They don't even have to be sophisticated about it. Deselecting "Internet Applications" then adding Firefox, Thunderbird, and Pidgin in the Software Centre would be a lot easier than removing Empathy and Evolution then adding Thunderbird and Pidgin. (Never mind tracking down that orphaned package that leaves a dysfunctional Evolution icon hanging around or removing the other network applications that I just don't use.)

It's just an idea. After all, it could be tucked away behind that "advanced" button on the last screen so that the typical user will never be burdened/confused by it.

good decision (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36683604)

As a long time ubuntu user I always removed evolution manually and installed thunderbird additionally. Thumbs up!

Finally (1)

motang (1266566) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683668)

Finally, I use Thunderbird everyday, this is just one more app I don't need to install when I do a fresh install of Ubuntu.

Finally! (1)

webdoctors (2022500) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683676)

about time. First thing I did on a new install of Windows/Ubuntu was install Thunderbird. Stupid Evolution, what a piece of crap.

Such awesome news! (1)

Saint Aardvark (159009) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683802)

This was always one of the first changes I made in a new Ubuntu install. Evolution was awful, slow, and I hated it.

Cross platform helps. (2)

LWATCDR (28044) | more than 3 years ago | (#36683838)

I have yet to see a windows version of Evolution. I keep hearing about one but so far I have not seen one. Thunderbird works on Windows and Linux so it is a better choice for people that have to use both systems.

No backup feature built in. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36683876)

The single thing I loved about Evolution was the backup feature. A nice compressed file that backs up everything. Mail, settings, everything. Thunderbird still doesn't have that option. Sure you can grab a third party program to do it, but it baffles me why they wouldn't include such a feature themselves.

My windows clients (ie the relatives I do tech support for) use thunderbird at my request. Adding a backup feature for thunderbird would make my life so much easier.

Every time I think about switching my own email back to thunderbird this lack of a no-brainer feature makes me wish groin trauma on the thunderbird development team.

mod 30wn (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36683924)

windowS, SUN or [goat.cx]
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