×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Apple Hits 15b App Store Downloads, But Loses "App Store" Name Skirmish

timothy posted more than 2 years ago | from the b-b-b-b-b-billion dept.

Software 183

Coldeagle writes "Apple has been dealt a blow in its 'App Store' trademark case, with a federal judge denying its request for an injunction to stop Amazon from using the term." Apple probably wouldn't trade the name exclusivity it seeks, though, for the success they've found with the business model; the company announced today that the App Store has reached 15 billion downloads.

cancel ×
This is a preview of your comment

No Comment Title Entered

Anonymous Coward 1 minute ago

No Comment Entered

183 comments

Thank god (1)

Flyerman (1728812) | more than 2 years ago | (#36690744)

App Store was way too generic for a trademark. That's the problem with coining a term, at least xerox was the name of their company.

Re:Thank god (1, Insightful)

Lord Kano (13027) | more than 2 years ago | (#36690806)

If Microsoft was able to successfully defend their "Windows" trademark, Apple had a fighting chance. Fortunately, in this case, sanity won the day.
It could have just as easily gone in their favor.

LK

Re:Thank god (0)

cgeys (2240696) | more than 2 years ago | (#36690822)

What's funny is that Apple zealots always try to say that Apple "barely breaks even" with app store and that they make money by selling hardware. I'm not sure why it's so hard for someone to understand that they can do both.

Re:Thank god (-1, Troll)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 2 years ago | (#36690832)

I'm not sure what's so hard to understand that while they CAN do both, they do not...

Don't forget, a lot of apps are free and ad supported, and Apple has a massive infrastructure to keep running.

They aren't hurting but it's not a major profit center either the way hardware is.

Why does it even matter to you that much? Why do you care so much about a facet of a company you claim to hate? Weird.

Re:Thank god (2, Interesting)

creat3d (1489345) | more than 2 years ago | (#36690938)

Why does Apple matter to you that much? Why do you care so much about a company?

Re:Thank god (0)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 2 years ago | (#36691088)

Why does Apple matter to you that much?

Apple matters to me to some extent because I like the hardware and software. So I follow updates with some interest.

For someone that hates it though... just seems weird to me they'd comment on it. I follow Windows updates too out of curiosity but I hardly ever post on it.

Re:Thank god (1)

Targon (17348) | more than 2 years ago | (#36692488)

If Apple ever comes out with OS 11, then I may take another look at it, but in general, the UI feels...gooey, and doesn't feel all that fast. I am not talking about the speed of the machines as much as just the feel of the UI itself. It may be intentional, but I always feel that Apple put too much effort into cute little UI elements which make the experience feel slow. Of course, I also like to see progress, and feel that Apple UI design is stagnant which is NOT a good thing.

People had a difficult time going from the UI of Windows XP to Vista, and even without any technical issues, there would have been complaints due to how long XP was around. On the Mac side, I suspect that Apple may not be able to update the UI at this point because MOST Apple fanatics just can't handle change at this point. 10 years is far too long for an OS to stick around without major improvements, which is why Windows 7 has done so well, due to the UI improvements in addition to many improvements that came with Vista but were not noticed by the general public.

Re:Thank god (1)

Dog-Cow (21281) | more than 2 years ago | (#36692582)

It could also be that the UI isn't changing much because it's pretty much good enough for most users. Change for the sake of change is bad, especially in user interfaces.

If you compare OS X 10.0 to 10.6 (and especially the upcoming 10.7), you'll see the UI has changed quite a bit.

Re:Thank god (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36690940)

Why does it even matter to you that much? Why do you care so much about a facet of a company you claim to hate? Weird.

You know someone cares about something a lot when they post a comment on the internet about it. From that point on, you can make assumptions on their feelings on state them as facts.

Re:Thank god (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36690972)

Why does it even matter to you that much? Why do you care so much about a facet of a company you claim to hate? Weird.

Why do you feel compelled to comment on Apple every single time they are mentioned on Slashdot? And have you ever, in your entire history of posting here, said just one thing negative of Apple?

Re:Thank god (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 2 years ago | (#36691104)

And have you ever, in your entire history of posting here, said just one thing negative of Apple?

Of course, because unlike you I am a rational person not acting only on emotion.

For example, I still think OS X printing lags way behind Windows printing controls. Even with Lion they've only just moved beyond primitive...

And I have said repeatedly this or that patent lawsuit was stupid.

You see, I can realize strengths and weaknesses of platforms I use and like most technical users find that software patents are doing a lot more harm than good.

Re:Thank god (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36691314)

Of course, because unlike you I am a rational person not acting only on emotion.

I've actually never commented on the merits of OS X or iOS because I own neither. I posted about WebKit licensing technicalities once, because it's involved in other projects, but that's all I've written about Apple.

I only pointed out your apparent allegiance because I've probably read at least 600 pro-Apple posts from you, and 0 anti- posts. Am I biased? I dunno. I also dislike sworn partisans, one-sided critics, and apologists & haters. So it's not like I have a vendetta against Apple. Anyone who swears fealty or opposition to a corporation should be distrusted in my opinion.

...btw, quirks against a platform don't really count as political disagreements. Why not mention an official position of Apple which you object to? Fuck, even a lot of the Google proponents I've conversed with take the occasional stance to Google: Analytics, R&D focus, Linux efforts, China, search ranking, ChromeOS/NaCl, et cetera.

Re:Thank god (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 2 years ago | (#36691644)

I only pointed out your apparent allegiance because I've probably read at least 600 pro-Apple posts from you, and 0 anti- posts

Its because in recent years anti-Apple sentiment has flourished on Slashdot - and that word is really far from the depth of hate we have seen spring forth. How many chances have I to speak on anything actually technical compared to the MANY opportunities presented daily to correct blatant lies and mis-staemnets by Apple Haters?

It's a kind of mild OCD where I cannot tolerate letting misfactual statements stand. And on Slashdot, quite a lot of the non-factual statements concern Apple...

Frankly it's also a desire to see Open Source and other modern digital rights succeed. I've seen Apple become one of the few large companies championing those rights on auger level, thus I support them so in turn they can continue to help open up digital rights further and prevent collapse into a maelstrom of media company interests.

Re:Thank god (1, Insightful)

MrHanky (141717) | more than 2 years ago | (#36692386)

As one of the consistent anti-Apple posters here the last few years, I'll just let you know that the reason why I bother with it is people like you. All since the introduction of OS X made Apple somewhat geek-credible, Slashdot has been swamped by fanboys of your kind, people who do nothing but advertise one company's products. Most of the time, you're full of shit. In the end, people get fed up with it and point it out. People like you remove any reason to add, for balance, that Apple's laptops are kind of nice.

You do tolerate "misfactual statements". You make them regularly yourself. Even now:

Frankly it's also a desire to see Open Source and other modern digital rights succeed. I've seen Apple become one of the few large companies championing those rights on auger level, thus I support them so in turn they can continue to help open up digital rights further and prevent collapse into a maelstrom of media company interests.

Right. Since blocking support for open formats like Vorbis, WebM, etc., is championing of open source. You're just an astroturfing liar.

Re:Thank god (1)

Dog-Cow (21281) | more than 2 years ago | (#36692594)

Not supporting something is not the same as blocking support. Your attempt at logic is a failure.

On politics (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 2 years ago | (#36691686)

btw, quirks against a platform don't really count as political disagreements. Why not mention an official position of Apple which you object to?

Like what? Generally I support Apple because a large majority of "positions" Apple holds I agree with, including protecting the security of end users and making computing easier and more accessible being a priority. What exactly am I supposed to be disagreeing with here, since obviously you have something in mind. Spit it out.

I've said in the past when I thought Apple held stupid positions, and I will continue to do so in the future. But by and large they are I think making mostly good choices for the computer industry and computer users.

Re:Thank god (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36691488)

You see, I can realize strengths and weaknesses of platforms I use and like most technical users find that software patents are doing a lot more harm than good.

Isn't that a cop-out? Software patents aren't a matter of pro or con in regards to a specific organization. Software patents are a fact of doing business, of being subject to the law of the land, and being for or against them isn't related to the opinions one holds towards the plaintiff company. It's a matter of State policy, not business practices.

Not a cop out (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 2 years ago | (#36691552)

Isn't that a cop-out? Software patents aren't a matter of pro or con in regards to a specific organization.

No, because a true shill would defend a company regardless of rightness or wrongness of specific patent uses.

I have said when I think Apple is using the leverage of patents in an unfair manner.

Just because patents are not a matter of pro or con on their own does not mean attitudes toward them cannot help show intent.

Re:Not a cop out (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36691698)

The most convincing shills engage in half-truths with every other sentence. A smart shill would decry software patents on Slashdot, because he knows the audience abhors them, and because he knows that calling out software patents doesn't harm his employer organization. In fact, I believe the recurring Microsoft shill hereabouts between 2 and 6 months ago ('devxo'?) had made posts such as "I am against software patents. Microsoft's tactics are clearly disappointing. But don't their competitors also engage in patent lawsuits. Why is it wrong for Microsoft to do so but not the others?"

Shills who issue nothing but blind praise are easily identified and ignored. :)

/tinfoil-hat

Re:Not a cop out (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 2 years ago | (#36691914)

The most convincing shills engage in half-truths with every other sentence.

The MOST convincing shills would claim others are shills in order to silence a message their masters disagreed with.

As for my own messages, the law of KISS says I am who I say I am - especially since MY history here runs far deeper and longer than any Apple interest, while you are not even a ghost.

Re:Not a cop out (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36692424)

Hmm, sorry dude, I wasn't even trying to imply that you were a shill. I thought my tinfoil comment at the end would make that obvious :(.

I am kinda perplexed by your devotion (isn't it boring to discuss Apple technology all the time?) but there's plenty of that weirdity in non-tech sectors too :).

Re:Thank god (1)

Custard Horse (1527495) | more than 2 years ago | (#36691812)

They aren't hurting but it's not a major profit center either the way hardware is.

The appstore is the greatest asset to the iOS based devices. Without the appstore they would be nothing.

Keeping the store running is integral to the continued success so breaking even is great, making a small loss is acceptable. Making any form of profit - even a small profit? That is the icing on the cake.

Re:Thank god (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36692176)

Saying it barely broke even was about the iTunes Music Store, and that was backed up by quotes during the Apple shareholder calls. The iTMS was a way to sell iPods. The App Store is a different beast.

Re:Thank god (1)

BasilBrush (643681) | more than 2 years ago | (#36692296)

Unless you're being specific about who said it, your quote is worthless. People in the group you label "Apple zealots" will have a variety of different things to say.

The fact is that the App Store contributes about 1% to Apple's profit. Whether you think that is a lot or a little is purely subjective.

http://allthingsd.com/20100623/apples-total-gross-profit-from-the-app-store-since-launch-189-million/ [allthingsd.com]

Re:Thank god (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36690922)

Windows is only a trade mark for operating systems though. You can still call your inspirational self-help video series "Windows" if you want.

devil is in the details (1)

DrYak (748999) | more than 2 years ago | (#36690980)

in microsoft's case, if you look closely, what they have registered as trademark is "Microsoft Windows". The whole phrase. And that's enforceable. But "windows" on its own, isn't enforceable in the market of graphic interfaces. "well, we're creating a GUI. Which uses windows. Let's call it Windows !"
And indeed there are other graphic interfaces also called with names containing "Windows". A proeminent exemple should be the unices' "X11 Windows".

when you look at their other product, Microsoft seems quit fond of creating brand name simply by slapping some word (often their own name) in front of some descriptive generic word : "Microsoft Office", "Visual Basic", "Intelli Mouse", "Internet Explorer" (here the generic comes first), etc.
this prevents them from suing because of these names (similar names like Libre-/OpenOffice, Turbo & Power Basic, Mighty Mouse, etc.)

Re:devil is in the details (2)

Confusador (1783468) | more than 2 years ago | (#36691398)

this prevents them from suing because of these names

Lindows? [wikipedia.org] I'll grant that it prevents them from suing successfully, but they are more than happy to throw money around to inconvenience the competition.

Re:devil is in the details (3, Insightful)

retchdog (1319261) | more than 2 years ago | (#36691400)

first, there is no "X11 Windows"; it is the "X Window System (version 11)".

also all citations i can find indicate that you're wrong about the trademark. for one, look to the devil itself http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/en/us/IntellectualProperty/Trademarks/Usage/Windows.aspx [microsoft.com]: "Windows is a registered trademark of Microsoft Corporation in the United States and other countries."

it's an abusive invalid mark and that's how they were able to sue (and decimate) lindows (now linspire). microsoft then settled because they knew they would lose if the case were carried through.

Re:devil is in the details (1)

BasilBrush (643681) | more than 2 years ago | (#36692338)

in microsoft's case, if you look closely, what they have registered as trademark is "Microsoft Windows". The whole phrase. And that's enforceable. But "windows" on its own, isn't enforceable in the market of graphic interfaces.

Actually, the last time this question came up I searched the USPTO database. In fact Microsoft does have the single word "Windows" trademarked in addition to the "Microsoft Windows" trademark. You haven't looked closely enough.

In fact the single word "Windows" is trademarked several times under different categories of product and services.

Re:Thank god (1)

artor3 (1344997) | more than 2 years ago | (#36691044)

"Windows" is not a generic term for a computer operating system, any more than "Apple" is for a computer company. "App Store" for a store that sells apps, however...

Re:Thank god (1)

micheas (231635) | more than 2 years ago | (#36691620)

I would think that Windows would count as a generic term for a computer windowing system, but that's just me.

Re:Thank god (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36691788)

Correct, that's just you. Next time, keep it to yourself, no one cares what you think.

Re:Thank god (1)

Deus.1.01 (946808) | more than 2 years ago | (#36692220)

Its not just you.

The term "Window" in reference to GUI's was coined as early as the Xerox PARCS days.

Not to mention we use the term "Window manager" to describe GUI implementation/module of an OS.

Re:Thank god (1)

Dog-Cow (21281) | more than 2 years ago | (#36692686)

There is a difference between elements of a UI and an OS or operating environment (pre-Win95 and/or pre-NT).

Re:Thank god (1)

Compaqt (1758360) | more than 2 years ago | (#36691074)

Huh? Microsoft was not able to defend their Windows trademark.

They reached a mutually beneficial settlement with Lindows. (Lindows changed their name in exchange for $$.)

Re:Thank god (1)

BasilBrush (643681) | more than 2 years ago | (#36692280)

Yes, God personally intervened to save Amazon from Apple. On the other hand He chose not to stop Amazon's one-click patent.

Nobody I know associates App with Apple (2)

Bloodwine77 (913355) | more than 2 years ago | (#36690748)

I thought it was generally accepted that App generally stands for Application. It was a bold move by Apple to try to secure the word, but I am glad they failed.

Re:Nobody I know associates App with Apple (1)

kvvbassboy (2010962) | more than 2 years ago | (#36690756)

Yes, it's also good that they reached the 15 billion landmark on their own strengths, and not on the basis of bringing other companies down.

Re:Nobody I know associates App with Apple (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36690830)

It is and was. This is not the same thing you're inferring.

Apple was aiming to trademark the phrase/logo "App Store" when used for selling mobile software in their singular way and not the words.

As an parallel: there's no trademark on the words dungeon or dragon, and you can even use them together as "dungeon and dragons." However, if you attach that phrase to a RPG- especially if you use a very specific logotype- and try to peddle it...

Re:Nobody I know associates App with Apple (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36690920)

If D&D was a box containing 2 dungeons and 5 dragons, that would be an appropriate analogy, because "dungeons and dragons" would be a literal description, much as "App Store" is literally a store full of apps.

Re:Nobody I know associates App with Apple (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36691372)

I thought it was generally accepted that App generally stands for Application. It was a bold move by Apple to try to secure the word, but I am glad they failed.

Actually that's not correct. They had the right to trademark the abbreviation App just like Lucas could trademark the abbreviation "Droid". All Amazon had to do was call it Application Store and all would be well. They want the confusion of both being called "App Store" so they get the reflected glory. I'd agree if they trademarked "Application Store" but abbreviations are trademarked all the time.

Re:Nobody I know associates App with Apple (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36691594)

Is 'app' an abbreviation? Clearly it originally was, but since in the mobile world 'application' is too long to type -- and very awkward-sounding with 4 syllables -- 'app' would inevitably become synonymous, itself its own word.

Frankly, "Application Store" feels like some shit Microsoft would coin up. It's ugly.

And there is also the ensuing habit of developers and users alike using 'app' to mean mobile apps and 'application' to mean desktop apps -- clearly delineating a difference (app: "a lightweight application on a mobile device" or thereabouts).

post-preview edit: holy shit, I looked 'app' up on Wiktionary, and my definition was nearly exact to theirs:

app (plural apps) (computing) An application (program), especially a small one designed for a mobile device.

Re:Nobody I know associates App with Apple (1)

Ash-Fox (726320) | more than 2 years ago | (#36692260)

Frankly, "Application Store" feels like some shit Microsoft would coin up. It's ugly.

Non-sense, Microsoft would never go with such a name.

Now Microsoft Windows Live .NET Application Store 2011 on the other hand...

What's happening to this world? (1)

c0lo (1497653) | more than 2 years ago | (#36690762)

How come common-sense is still manifest? And so often? I've seen like 2-3 times it this year already, this must stop.

Bring on the fanbois... (0, Flamebait)

tbird81 (946205) | more than 2 years ago | (#36690804)

Apple fans - this is a website for nerds. Not for hipsters.

I know more about computers than you... (1)

Brannon (221550) | more than 2 years ago | (#36690816)

and I like Apple.

Kinda blows a hole in your theory.

Re:I know more about computers than you... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36691672)

Not really, it just means you're a hipster on the wrong site.

Just like being a dictator overshadows the fact that you're also a baker, being a hipster will permeate your presence, eradicating the nerd in you. You're a hipster that can use an idiot-proof computer, congratulations.

Nerds Love UNIX (4, Interesting)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 2 years ago | (#36690856)

Apple fans - this is a website for nerds. Not for hipsters.

True nerds love UNIX, and Apple provides an exceptional UNIX out of the box.

That's really what propelled them to start with, Apple's fortunes changed with OS X because at the core nerds had their back seeing an opportunity to bring UNIX to the masses. And you know what? It worked.

Linux for whatever reason is just not the OS you could reasonably give to your mother or grandmother without some hands-on support time involved. OS X is a fire-and-forget computer solution that means family visits are not four hour fix-a-thons.

Re:Nerds Love UNIX (3, Insightful)

Microlith (54737) | more than 2 years ago | (#36690948)

It's too bad they had to go and declare true nerds the enemy with their iProducts. After using my 2006 MacBook and enjoying every minute of using OS X, they had to go and take a hostile approach to software development and control over things they sold.

I can't support them now. And sadly that means the now reduced OS X partition on my MacBook likely won't be seeing Lion, despite having seen up through Snow Leopard.

Re:Nerds Love UNIX (1)

dakameleon (1126377) | more than 2 years ago | (#36691094)

Where exactly is their hostile approach to OS X software development?

iOS, sure, is a little more locked away, but your point seems to rest on the basis of your 2006 MacBook experience.

Re:Nerds Love UNIX (2, Insightful)

Microlith (54737) | more than 2 years ago | (#36691182)

Perhaps you did not read what I said.

I gave up on Apple, despite enjoying OS X, precisely because of how they behave towards more technical users that enjoyed OS X's capabilities. And you know as well as I that the hostility doesn't extend to OS X (yet.) Apple sees mobile as the future of computing (hence the "post-PC era" comments from Jobs), however they give users none of the flexibility offered by OS X, not even the option. Instead they are actively fighting against it, picking and choosing who gets to "innovate" and who is permanently locked out. They were even ready to try and apply US Federal laws against people creating jailbreaks.

That's why I have stopped using OS X, and why I cannot support Apple. They've gone 180 from where I saw them when I got my MacBook.

You know nothing (3, Informative)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 2 years ago | (#36692030)

And you know as well as I that the hostility doesn't extend to OS X (yet.) Apple sees mobile as the future of computing (hence the "post-PC era" comments from Jobs),

Post PC doesn't mean SANS PC. It means getting past the point of the PC being the PRIMARY platform, and to a world where it is one of many platforms as equals. Mobile is only where computing has to go to extend further than it has, and is ONE future, not all of it.

They were even ready to try and apply US Federal laws against people creating jailbreaks.

Really? When? I never read a single thing that said that, and now of course the point is moot since the law is clear that jailbreaking is fine.

They've gone 180 from where I saw them when I got my MacBook.

They continue to do what they always have tried to do, bring computing to the masses while still giving technical users excellent systems. Any change is you misinterpretation of direction, not an about-course.

Re:Nerds Love UNIX (1)

Dog-Cow (21281) | more than 2 years ago | (#36692722)

I have never read nor heard of Apple sending even a cease and desist to any jailbreak group. In fact, Apple has even failed to close holes in older iOS versions when they release updates. Just yesterday I jailbroke my 4.3.3 (latest iOS) iPad by browsing to a website. How long ago was that hole revealed to exist?

Apple will not support you if you jailbreak, but they obviously don't care much if the community and facility exists.

Re:Nerds Love UNIX (1)

Ash-Fox (726320) | more than 2 years ago | (#36692182)

Where exactly is their hostile approach to OS X software development?

I'm not the original poster.. But if you want examples...

Apple's refusal after saying they would make 64bit APIs for certain GUI. The reason why Photoshop had to skip a 64bit version for OS X and completely rewrite their UI for OS X in the next major version so it could do 64bit.

Or maybe the lack of proper OpenGL support, where OS X's OpenGL implementation tends to be quite flaky to the point that Crossover games has to add game specific OpenGL fixes for any supported game on OS X while the same works fine on any other *nix system.

Maybe the lack of proper forking support on OS X, despite being certified (I honestly don't understand why their UNIX certification hasn't been revoked for all the broken POSIX stuff in OS X), it still violates POSIX standards. POSIX standards explicitly allow fork() without exec(), however OS X is unable to guarantee the libraries are using are async-signal-safe (forking a program even in a signal handler at any time?) which in turn crashes the thread. Did you know that Windows's POSIX subsystem is more compliant to the standard than OS X is. I have had personally less of an issue porting and developing POSIX software on Windows than OS X for this reason.

But I digress, I find their lack of standards compliance rather hostile to software development, cross-platform development. Their failing to live up to development promises makes investing development time in the OS X platform risky.

Re:Nerds Love UNIX (2, Insightful)

BasilBrush (643681) | more than 2 years ago | (#36692432)

Apple's refusal after saying they would make 64bit APIs for certain GUI. The reason why Photoshop had to skip a 64bit version for OS X and completely rewrite their UI for OS X in the next major version so it could do 64bit.

You mean Carbon? Apple never promised a 64 bit version of Carbon, and indeed Carbon was always intended as a temporary API to get developers over from OS 9. And that was more than 10 years ago. Adobe was at fault for not moving on when nearly every other developer had. Adobe wrongly thought they had the clout to make Apple do the work of continuing Carbon so they wouldn't have to do the work of modernising Photoshop.

Re:Nerds Love UNIX (3, Informative)

Ash-Fox (726320) | more than 2 years ago | (#36692504)

Apple never promised a 64 bit version of Carbon

You may find this article [arstechnica.com] interesting. In particular,

During the beta of Mac OS X 10.5, the first version that offered a credible, fully featured 64-bit API, Apple included a 64-bit version of Carbon. Adobe used this 64-bit Carbon to develop 64-bit Photoshop for Mac OS X.

Then a little further...

and though the company had told developers it was going to be one of the features of version 10.5, and though it worked well, the final release of Mac OS X 10.5 didn't include 64-bit Carbon.

Nerds Love Mobile UNIX and POWER (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 2 years ago | (#36691126)

It's too bad they had to go and declare true nerds the enemy with their iProducts.

You have no idea what the hell you are talking about. That's still a very powerful UNIX platform.

True nerds don't care about locks; they unlock them instead of whining about the existence of same. What matters is what's inside when you unlock it. Still UNIX? Yep.

What you really don't realize is that for the nerd having almost all the iPhone software written in Objective-C is a huge, huge nerd advantage - because you can inject code into existing applications with far greater ease than other platforms.

It gives the true nerd a massive amount of power over the whole platform and applications running on it.

Re:Nerds Love Mobile UNIX and POWER (2)

jon_doh2.0 (2097642) | more than 2 years ago | (#36691170)

No, we care about locks. Which is, partly, why we appreciate open source.

Nerds love Open Source (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 2 years ago | (#36691528)

No, we care about locks. Which is, partly, why we appreciate open source.

Few people care as much about open source as I do. I contribute to the FSF every year, do you?

One of the great things about the iPhone as a platform is there is a TON of open source to do things, and it's built on top of a lot of open source technologies (like Webkit and GCD).

All the major players in mobile are locked down to some degree, so I focus on what I can DO with a platform. And there the iPhone excels.

Re:Nerds love Open Source (1)

Targon (17348) | more than 2 years ago | (#36692532)

When you need to jailbreak a device because the company that makes the product doesn't "approve" of a lot of software out there, that is a clear sign of the company standing for being closed and against freedom. I am not talking about clearly negative software that is harmful to users, I am talking about Apple saying "we don't ALLOW this because we don't like it".

Apple is following the lead of the Chinese government, where a company or individual can get their applications banned from the Apple App Store because of personal dislike by a company employee. This is the problem with Apple, and the more people allow that sort of behavior, the worse Apple will get. I expect that if Facebook got into a war with Apple, that Apple would update the OS to disallow all Facebook apps and even access to the Facebook web page on iDevices.

Re:Nerds Love Mobile UNIX and POWER (1, Insightful)

Microlith (54737) | more than 2 years ago | (#36691174)

You have no idea what the hell you are talking about. That's still a very powerful UNIX platform.

But unlike OS X, they refuse to give it to you. They fight you over it, making you waste time breaking their locks while funding them at the same time.

True nerds don't care about locks; they unlock them instead of whining about the existence of same

But why? Why should people support a company that tried to get the DMCA to apply to Jailbeaks? Why should they have to hack around deliberately placed locks to regain functionality that would otherwise exist by default? Why buy from a company that is hostile towards you?

Apple is very hostile to advanced, technical users, no matter how you slice it.

Re:Nerds Love Mobile UNIX and POWER (3, Interesting)

SvnLyrBrto (62138) | more than 2 years ago | (#36691458)

> Apple is very hostile to advanced, technical users,
> no matter how you slice it.

Really? Here's an exercise. Compare & contrast:

Sony's treatment of Playstaytion jailbreakers.
vs.
Apple's treatment of iOS jailbreakers.

The MPAA's reactions towards DVD Jon and DeCSS.
vs.
Apple's reactions towards DVD Jon and QTFairUse

Microsoft's policies towards X-Boxes known to have been jailbroken.
vs.
Apple's policies towards iPhones known to have been jailbroken.

Re:Nerds Love Mobile UNIX and POWER (3, Interesting)

BasilBrush (643681) | more than 2 years ago | (#36692462)

Can I play?

Sony's treatment of Playstaytion jailbreakers.
vs.
Apple's treatment of iOS jailbreakers.

Sony prosecuted jailbreakers. Apple didn't.

The MPAA's reactions towards DVD Jon and DeCSS.
vs.
Apple's reactions towards DVD Jon and QTFairUse

MPAA prosecuted. Apple didn't.

Microsoft's policies towards X-Boxes known to have been jailbroken.
vs.
Apple's policies towards iPhones known to have been jailbroken.

Microsoft withdrew already paid for online services from jailbreakers. Apple didn't.

You make a fine point.

Re:Nerds Love Mobile UNIX and POWER (3, Funny)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 2 years ago | (#36691534)

Why should they have to hack around deliberately placed locks to regain functionality that would otherwise exist by default?

As an Android user rooting their own phone first, then get back to me.

Why buy from a company that is hostile towards you?

Why would I indeed? I wouldn't.

I buy from Apple because they are VERY friendly toward the nerd in how they build systems and the flexibility I derive from them. They are one of the few companies left that really appreciates quality of design in hardware and software together.

Re:Nerds Love Mobile UNIX and POWER (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36691722)

I buy from Apple because they are VERY friendly toward the nerd in how they build systems and the flexibility I derive from them. They are one of the few companies left that really appreciates quality of design in hardware and software together.

Dude, being a nerd is not about buying quality design hardware and software, that's just being a lazy prick who can't handle when things break, quite the opposite of a nerd.

Yeah well. If exceptional means "special" (1)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | more than 2 years ago | (#36691524)

If you think OSX is unix, you never used unix. Apple really went to town on the cute and innocent opensource OS like a pedo on a 4yr old and turned it into a twisted psycho vision of itself.

OSX is not Unix. Go ahead and use it, you will find many many things changed to accomodate the single (active) user nature of OSX.

Oh and Apple provides an exceptional UNIX out of the box?

Really? Where is the cli on the iPhone? On the iPad? On the iPod? Oh, just on their PC's... well that is actually just a small section then of their total market.

OSX is Lindows on more expensive hardware.

Re:Yeah well. If exceptional means "special" (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 2 years ago | (#36691604)

If you think OSX is unix, you never used unix.

Well I've extensively used and programmed on various flavors of Linux, AIX, HPUX, and BSD... that's besides the HP/MPE and VMS systems (which of course are not UNIX but broaden the mind) but if you think somehow I need more experience please list what I am missing. Frankly I am thinking you probably have way to narrow a definition of UNIX.

Go ahead and use it, you will find many many things changed to accomodate the single (active) user nature of OSX.

Yes, many things are changed, which is the reason I started using OS X day to day instead of Linux.

Really? Where is the cli on the iPhone? On the iPad? On the iPod?

Just as far away as it is on many other UNIX systems... APT [saurik.com].

Although CLI comes automatically with jailbreaking.

If you really knew and deeply understood UNIX you wouldn't freak out about a CLI not shipping on a system by default. It's just another user process...

Re:Yeah well. If exceptional means "special" (1)

BasilBrush (643681) | more than 2 years ago | (#36692598)

OSX is not Unix.

Guess what. Linux Is Not UniX. OSX on the other hand is a fully certified version of UNIX.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_UNIX_Specification [wikipedia.org]

Really? Where is the cli on the iPhone? On the iPad? On the iPod?

iOS isn't Unix. It's derived from OSX with is Unix, but it's had all the things that are unnecessary for a smartphone stripped out, such as the cli and cli supporting executables.

But once again, OSX *IS* Unix.

Oh, just on their PC's... well that is actually just a small section then of their total market.

What the fuck has the size of the market vs consumer smartphones got to do with it? Guess what? Unix is a niche. It ain't mass market for anybody. But OSX has the biggest market of all of all the Unices.

Re:Bring on the fanbois... (1)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | more than 2 years ago | (#36691064)

Apple fans - this is a website for nerds. Not for hipsters.

If you don't want them here, why are you baiting them?

The whys and wherefores (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 2 years ago | (#36691140)

If you don't want them here, why are you baiting them?

He secretly desperately desires a Mac, but he cannot yet come out of the iCloset he has put himself into.

Re:Bring on the fanbois... (2)

fermion (181285) | more than 2 years ago | (#36691246)

Apple users are both. PC users are niether. *nix users can be either. Due to the inferiority complex, PC users tends to build exclusivity to compensate.

Re:Bring on the fanbois... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36691564)

More like bring on the haters. LOL

Every in the comment section of almost every damn Apple article on the web, there will be at least one or two haters rant and raving about how Steve Jobs is the devil or repeating some tired meme eg. "about holding it wrong".

There are more posts flaming Apple than those singing their praises.
I guess Frantz Fanon was right, "Fervour is the weapon of choice of the impotent.". Especially now that Apple is doing incredibly well.

At least all Apple fanboys ever did was telling you how awesome Apple's products are, these haters (fanboys for a rival product/company) can't seem to even think of anything praise worthy to say about products they "support" and can only sling mud at their "greatest competitor".

What's wrong with iStore? (1)

NotQuiteReal (608241) | more than 2 years ago | (#36690812)

BTW - I just copyrighted "iStore", maybe (check in your local jurisdiction).

Also, let's burn "widget store", "got app?", "widget factory", and "buyme*".

* harkening back to simpler times when one could post a program named "playme" to wreak havoc, for the hacker fun of it (no pop-up dialogs involved.)

Re:What's wrong with iStore? (1)

dakameleon (1126377) | more than 2 years ago | (#36691106)

Copyright != Trademark. Just you go try to trademark iStore and watch how quickly the Apple Legal ninjas jump on you.

Re:What's wrong with iStore? (1)

Miseph (979059) | more than 2 years ago | (#36691242)

Unless they can show that they have been using the name in trade, he'd probably win. Well, provided he could afford legal representation throughout the many lawsuits and appeals, that is. Most likely they would offer an out of court settlement wherein he receives an undisclosed sum of money and they get the trademark.

Re:What's wrong with iStore? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36691240)

> BTW - I just copyrighted "iStore"

Ummm... do you actually know what copyright is? Hint: it's not related to trademarks.

Very fishy 15 Billion (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36690860)

Assuming most people have tried 50 apps (which is a very high average guess) - that means there would have been 300 million iOS devices. I really doubt it. I think 15 billion is a meaningless and false number.

RTFA - 200 million IOS devices (0)

Brannon (221550) | more than 2 years ago | (#36690894)

75 apps per. Many of those are free apps. Many of those are probably downloads of updates for existing apps.

I think you are a meaningless and false number.

Re:RTFA - 200 million IOS devices (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36690968)

I still cry foul. The fanboy will download a couple hundred. Most average people will do less than 40. I would still pin it as rather unlikely that 200 million devices averaged 75 downloaded apps. 200 million people don't have the time no matter how much they foam over apple. 20 million - maybe, but not 200 million.

But i guess you can just take their word for it. I'm sure they're completely honest. Cough.

Re:RTFA - 200 million IOS devices (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36691024)

Oh - i missed it yet again. Updates. I forgot about updates. OK now I can see it. A person installs 20 apps. A single lame developer releases new code every week for a year. Now I can see 15 billion downloads.

But you have officially verified the meaningless-ness. How many unique apps per person are there - that would be a lot more telling than counting all of the times a phone bricked and the user reinstalled from itunes, or the fanboy upgraded his phone 4 times and got the same apps counted 4 times.

Re:RTFA - 200 million IOS devices (1)

Targon (17348) | more than 2 years ago | (#36692562)

When any web page that has Flash apps on it requires an App because the devices don't have Flash on them, the numbers are flawed, even if accurate. If you take every web page that has a Flash application on it, including Speedtest.net, you could argue that each of these web pages are considered an app on devices that DO support Flash, since you can make a link to those pages to run the Flash version.

So, how many thousands of Flash apps are there on web pages out there? Can we now add them to the total number of apps available on other platforms?

Re:Very fishy 15 Billion (1)

0100010001010011 (652467) | more than 2 years ago | (#36690906)

Opening Paragraph:
Apple has just announced that the company’s 200 million iOS users have downloaded over 15 billion apps from its App Store, including both iPad and iPhone apps. The App Store currently includes more than 425,000 apps, with over 100,000 native iPad apps.

And 50? You should see some peoples phones. I've seen people with 50 folders.

Not to mention App Store is now available for OS X and Apple is starting to release all their stuff through it. (iMovie, Final Cut Pro, etc)

Re:Very fishy 15 Billion (1)

tlhIngan (30335) | more than 2 years ago | (#36690994)

Well, people like me are probably skewing the stats a bit.

A quick examination of my "Mobile Applications" folder in my iTunes library shows it's 310GB in size with nearly 21K files in it.

That's nearly 21 *THOUSAND* apps.

And I've spent less than $100 in total in the app store. Most of those 21K apps are apps marked down to free temporarily (sites like appshopper are terrible for this - you can easily grab a ton of apps that used to cost money and are temporarily free).

Hell, I suppose if I were to price that collection of apps, I'd easily hit $10K if I were to buy every single one at any one point in time. (Probably more, but being conservative here - even though completely free apps probably make up less than 10% of that).

Re:Very fishy 15 Billion (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36691366)

sites like appshopper

Damn it's late. I totally misread that as asshopper.

congrats? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36690966)

Congrats Apple, on being the McDonalds's of mobile downloads. You must be so proud.

Good thing you abolished the "big brother" you were fighting back in the 80s. Oh wait, that's exactly what you've become.

FU

I am dreaming... (0)

renzhi (2216300) | more than 2 years ago | (#36690978)

that someday, we will have real news for nerds, things that matter, instead of every fart from Jobs and Apple.

Science and technology are advancing at an amazing pace, there are so much interesting things out there, and there are so many interesting topics regarding society too. And there are no lack of submissions either, but instead, we must be all these junks about Apple. It seems like Slashdot has become a propaganda machine for Apple or something, you really have to wonder how much kickback timothy and the gang get from their overlord.

The annoying thing is that there's no way to filter out idiotic topics like that. The only way is to take it personal, and exclude topics by the poster. A real shame, especially for a site that had the ball the label itself a forum for geeks and nerds. No wonder, the interesting topics have less and less participation from the geeks, and the tabloid-like topics are crowded.

Re:I am dreaming... (1)

Culture20 (968837) | more than 2 years ago | (#36691388)

that someday, we will have real news for nerds, things that matter, instead of every fart from Jobs and Apple.

To be fair, this article is more of an Apple shart. There's the relief of the order of 15B, but something got away at the same time, something that they would have rather kept in.

biznat34 (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36691598)

worthwhile. So I consider worth3hile RAM) for 4bout 20 are about 7000/5

15 billion? (1, Insightful)

swell (195815) | more than 2 years ago | (#36691690)

"App Store has reached 15 billion downloads."

And how many of those were the weekly 'updates'? I've noticed that certain companies publish frequent updates to their freeware which are actually reminders to buy the paid version. A single App may be downloaded several times in a month or a year due to these 'updates'. I suppose Apple is counting them as unique downloads.

Re:15 billion? (1)

spheric_harlot (2004896) | more than 2 years ago | (#36691884)

Apple has in the past made a point of specifically mentioning that these are individual downloads, NOT updates. While I don't know, I think we can assume that this is the case here.

Re:15 billion? (2)

wvmarle (1070040) | more than 2 years ago | (#36691980)

First line of TFA:

200 million iOS users have downloaded over 15 billion apps from its App Store

That equates to an average of 75 downloads per iOS user. That's a lot.

Now I have no idea how many apps a typical iOS user has installed on their phone, but if it's half that I'd be surprised. So sure there are many updates included in this number.

This site [gigaom.com] has some more statistics on the app's value and prices paid (no idea on the reliability of these numbers, other than that they sound altogether plausible to me). They claim that the average payment amount per app (averaging in the free apps!) is $0.91. TFA mentions a total of $2.5b paid out to developers, which is 70% of the price a user pays, so $3.6b total revenue. This results in about 4 billion total app downloads, or more like 20 per iOS user. An already much more reasonable sounding number. And that also means 11 billion (an average of almost three per installed app) are updates.

Re:15 billion? (1)

MavEtJu (241979) | more than 2 years ago | (#36692036)

> That equates to an average of 75 downloads per iOS user. That's a lot.

I just checked mine: I have downloaded a total of 225 apps on my iPhone 3GS, which I bought a year ago.

Going through the list there are a lot of one-time usage apps on (voting and event related which I checked once or twice and then deleted, games which I played until finished and then removed, documentation/walkthrough for games). Right now I have about 100 apps installed.

So 75 downloads is easily doable.

My aunt on the other hand has only 15 apps installed. It still averages out :-)

Re:15 billion? (1)

wvmarle (1070040) | more than 2 years ago | (#36692088)

I think your aunt is much closer to the average user than you are... this as most /. users are power users.

And just out of curiousity: how many of those were paid and how many free? The site I linked to mentions that while 3 out of 4 apps on the market are paid apps, 3 out of 4 downloads are free apps.

Personally I'm a cheapskate Android user; the two dozen or so apps that I have installed are all free. I've yet to pay for an app. The required registration for that is an objection to me.

Re:15 billion? (1)

Ash-Fox (726320) | more than 2 years ago | (#36692118)

I think your aunt is much closer to the average user than you are... this as most /. users are power users.

Note: I am not the grandparent.

To be fair, I've met some people (7 that I can recall) who filled their phones to the brim with applications and then asked for my help because the phone kept having issues due to not having any space left (I'm sure they had far more 200 applications).

I don't think it's that uncommon.

Re:15 billion? (1)

BasilBrush (643681) | more than 2 years ago | (#36692384)

Personally I'm a cheapskate Android user; the two dozen or so apps that I have installed are all free. I've yet to pay for an app.

And I don't think you're untypical of Android users. That's the major reason why commercial developers prefer to develop for iPhone. iPhone users tend to buy more apps than Android users.

And in the main I don't think it's an ideological difference, just an economic one. iPhones are more expensive to buy than Androids, so people with more disposable cash are likely to buy iPhone, people who for what ever reason want to spend less money are more likely to buy an Android.

Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Sign up for Slashdot Newsletters
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...