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When Software Offends

samzenpus posted more than 3 years ago | from the ruffling-feathers dept.

Censorship 467

ndogg writes "The open source Python projects Pantyshot and Upskirt have caused quite a stir within the Python community, and catalyzed the leaving of one of their developers (a woman whose native language is not English.) The original developer, Frank Smit, has renamed Pantyshot to Misaka, but that too has suspect etymology, as Violet Blue points out."

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Oh boy (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36721450)

Oh no you di'nt!

People need to get out more (-1, Flamebait)

clickclickdrone (964164) | more than 3 years ago | (#36721460)

Really, if you get offended by words like that you need to crawl out from under that rock and get out more.

Re:People need to get out more (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36721530)

No, you stupid shit, it means that this is just ONE MORE fucking reason for huge multibillion-dollar companies to give Open Source the finger.

Re:People need to get out more (2)

biodata (1981610) | more than 3 years ago | (#36721628)

People will use all kinds of reasons to justify their behaviour. I imagine this name would make all kinds of people want to try out the software as well. Do you think the main purpose of the open source community is to provide tools for megacorporations?

Re:People need to get out more (3, Insightful)

thebra (707939) | more than 3 years ago | (#36721900)

People will use all kinds of reasons to justify their behaviour. I imagine this name would make all kinds of people want to try out the software as well. Do you think the main purpose of the open source community is to provide tools for megacorporations?

I don't see how this naming would make anyone want to try out this software. But what it would do is make it difficult for a person in a business environment to search for and access this package, especially those with strict internet filtering.

Re:People need to get out more (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36721642)

On the flip side, perhaps you ought to be offended, but have been too desensitized.

Re:People need to get out more (1)

clickclickdrone (964164) | more than 3 years ago | (#36721884)

>On the flip side, perhaps you ought to be offended, but have been too desensitized.
Fair point but I would like to think that we've got past being horrified by anything remotely sexual. Let's be honest here, one of the biggest money spinners in the US is porn - people buy it, yet as soon as someone in public says 'panties', they're frowned upon as some sort of devient, usually by the same people who just downloaded MILF episode 3.

Re:People need to get out more (4, Insightful)

Nimey (114278) | more than 3 years ago | (#36721952)

There's a difference between Puritanistic horror at anything sexual and being offended by naming a software program after an act of non-consensual peeping.

Re:People need to get out more (4, Insightful)

fusiongyro (55524) | more than 3 years ago | (#36722040)

It might be hypocritical, but we're not here to be the arbiters of social norms. We're here to write code.

Naming stuff to be kitschy or to offend other people is childish. You don't have an obligation to anyone to name your software any particular way, but if you behave like a child, you shouldn't be too surprised when adults get offended. If your goal is to write code that gets used, you should pretend to be an adult--at least while you're naming it.

If you make a useful library and intentionally give it a disgusting name, you're a psychological sadist. You don't care what other people think, you just enjoy knowing they squirm every time they have to deal with your library. Grow up. Get a little empathy.

Re:People need to get out more (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36721726)

Really, if you're naming things Up Skirt or Panty Shot you need to crawl out from under that rock and get out more.

Re:People need to get out more (5, Insightful)

Nyeerrmm (940927) | more than 3 years ago | (#36721736)

No. I'm sorry. No. Theres a difference between having fun with software names and this. It is incredibly misogynistic, and it is perfectly reasonable to be offended by it. The name refers to a non-consensual sexual intrusion, something you might consider light rape.

There's a big difference between this and something adolescent and immaturely sexual, but not horribly offensive like, oh, 'booblib'.

Re:People need to get out more (1, Insightful)

CyprusBlue113 (1294000) | more than 3 years ago | (#36721828)

Do what now? How do you go from seeing underwear potentially accidentally to *rape*?!

There is something *seriously* wrong here, but I'm pretty sure it's with you, not the name of the software.

Re:People need to get out more (3, Insightful)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 3 years ago | (#36722110)

Upskirt refers to the practice of making unauthorized photographs under a female's skirt, capturing an image of her crotch area and underwear. [Wikipedia]

The something wrong is your understanding of words like "consensual", "accidental", "intentional", and "illegal".

Re:People need to get out more (2)

ElectricTurtle (1171201) | more than 3 years ago | (#36722268)

Just because it is on Wikipedia does not make it true or complete. I can assure you that upskirt refers to the composition of a photo or video, not its consensuality. Dare I ask, what do you think a consensually-taken upskirt photo would be called if not also 'upskirt'?

Further, if in the course of some other activity a woman accidentally shows her underwear on camera, that too is called a 'pantyshot' even though the camera was not there for the explicit purpose of capturing the event.

That either of these terms requires lack of consent or the explicit and demonstrable intent to malice is wholly false.

Re:People need to get out more (1, Insightful)

clickclickdrone (964164) | more than 3 years ago | (#36721966)

>It is incredibly misogynistic, and it is perfectly reasonable to be offended by it.
Oh I think people are way too ready to be offended by anything and everything these days.
The name refers to a non-consensual sexual intrusion, something you might consider light rape.
You think an upskirt (which are usually staged) is akin to rape? Wow.

Re:People need to get out more (1)

nedlohs (1335013) | more than 3 years ago | (#36722308)

You mightn't, but in many states* such an action will land you a felony and get a registered sex offenders list entry. And of course it's a Federal crime to boot.

* Yeah, yeah US-centric, but it's slashdot...

Re:People need to get out more (2)

0racle (667029) | more than 3 years ago | (#36722078)

Theres a difference between having fun with software names and this. It is incredibly misogynistic, and it is perfectly reasonable to be offended by it.

No there isn't. Just because YOU don't see this as having fun with names doesn't mean the author didn't. 'Having fun with names' and 'Having fun with names that I approve of' are not the same thing. 'Having fun with names' and 'using names that aren't offensive' are also not the same thing.

There's a big difference between this and ... 'booblib'.

Once again, you're wrong. I bet that it wouldn't be hard to find people who would be just as offended at booblib or libboob as libupskirt.

This is actually a pretty good example of what I first said. Your morals say libupskirt bad, libboob ok. Others see no problem with either and still others will find neither acceptable. Here however, you are using your morals as a rule that everyone should follow.

Re:People need to get out more (0)

thelexx (237096) | more than 3 years ago | (#36722154)

Forcibly sticking your penis in someone and catching a glimpse of their undies are in no way comparable acts. The fact that you and a number of mouth-breathing mods seem to think so is genuinely disturbing.

Re:People need to get out more (1)

LateArthurDent (1403947) | more than 3 years ago | (#36722178)

The name refers to a non-consensual sexual intrusion, something you might consider light rape.

What the hell is "light rape"? Is that something like the George Bluth's "light treasons"?

There's a big difference between this and something adolescent and immaturely sexual, but not horribly offensive like, oh, 'booblib'.

'booblib' might not be terribly offensive to YOU, but I'm sure it's incredibly offensive to quite a few people. The question isn't even, "how do we decide where the line is", but rather "how do we decide who decides where the line is."

Look, I agree with you. It's misogynistic. It's immature. It's not funny in any way. It is your right to be offended by it.

That said, it's still not right to censor it.

Re:People need to get out more (3, Insightful)

moderatorrater (1095745) | more than 3 years ago | (#36721820)

You're a moron. It means that developers need to grow up. The only reason to use names like this is for the shock value due to their offensiveness. I think it should go without saying that we need to stop demeaning women for lulz.

Re:People need to get out more (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36721954)

Exactly. I have no idea where that concept of being "offended" be words came from (I suspect churches. What else? ;), but come on. It's just words.
And unless you, as a reader/listener validate them, nothing can happen.

Now of course, in a case where the offender knows that the victim cannot help but believe in him... like with a parent calling his child something bad... then of course, some actual harm is caused. (And as a victim of this, I know for a fact, that it's just as bad if not worse than "physical" harm, as physical harm can be fixed much easier.)

But if you're grown up, and someone calls you a (let's use something that would offend most here) "pathetic childish complete loser who never had sex and never will be, fucks his Yoda fleshligh [epicfail.com] and will die all alone, crying himself to sleep every night until then", it depends entierly on you.
A) You can either believe what he said is true, react accordingy, by getting angry, acting all offended, and thereby giving the offender the validation that this is indeed true.
B) OR, you know that what he said is bullshit, and hence he's an idiot, and a loser for calling people shit. Then if you want, you can make fun of him for being such a pathetic loser, who has to project his self-hatred on others, and be done with it.

But for something as generic as "pantyshot" or "upskirt".
I don't get it. What does that have to do with those women? Unless they somehow all by themselves associate themselves with it.

Same thing for me: Why would I have problems with software called "smalldick" or "fatass". Unless I would believe that to be true. And even then, how is a fact an insult?

Go on, bitches, call me whatever you want. I don't whine about it. Because I'm part of a type of human called "grownups"! ^^

Re:People need to get out more (1)

clickclickdrone (964164) | more than 3 years ago | (#36722052)

Pretty much agree with that. As I said earlier, people are way too ready to be offended these days,often when they're not. They just feel they ought to.

Re:People need to get out more (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36722098)

Autism. Autism EVERYWHERE.

Re:People need to get out more (1)

CSMoran (1577071) | more than 3 years ago | (#36722144)

Go on, bitches, call me whatever you want.

You're a Yoda flashlight, that's what you are. :)

Re:People need to get out more (1)

Servaas (1050156) | more than 3 years ago | (#36722290)

It's just words. And unless you, as a reader/listener validate them, nothing can happen.

Now of course, in a case like with a parent calling his child something bad... then of course, some actual harm is caused. (And as a victim of this, I know for a fact, that it's just as bad if not worse than "physical" harm, as physical harm can be fixed much easier.)

But if you're grown up, and someone calls you a (let's use something that would offend most here) "pathetic childish complete loser who never had sex and never will be, fucks his Yoda fleshligh [epicfail.com] and will die all alone, crying himself to sleep every night until then", it depends entierly on you.

So because you were non rational as a child it was wrong of your parents to call you names, perhaps even rightfully so, perhaps you were one of those oversensitive ego's, and you needed some hard hitting words. But when a grown up does it to another grown up it is okay in your book? Kinda double standard that.

Re:People need to get out more (1)

clickclickdrone (964164) | more than 3 years ago | (#36722118)

Flamebait? Really? Wow. I rest my case.

Hey, idiots (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36721464)

How about telling us what it ACTUALLY DOES!?

Re:Hey, idiots (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36721622)

Python bindings for a Markdown library. [github.com] Not very sexy at all.

Re:Hey, idiots (1)

thasmudyan (460603) | more than 3 years ago | (#36722296)

Then I'm wondering: if this code is not used for, you know, actual panty shots - where is all the consternation coming from? Lots of projects have not-so-clever names that are in no way connected to how they work. If the stink caused over this non-issue was actually enough to make a developer quit the project, then it's a big red flag for everyone to stay the hell away from this toxic community.

Re:Hey, idiots (1)

Riceballsan (816702) | more than 3 years ago | (#36721680)

Indeed, I am curious on this, but not crazy enough to Google the names while on my monitored work network, anyone able to list what the programs actually do?

Well.. (3, Insightful)

AngryDeuce (2205124) | more than 3 years ago | (#36721466)

That's the beautiful thing about freedom, you're free not to use media or software that offends you...

There's plenty of bigots and assholes out there. If you feel it's worth the fight, be my guest. I'm gonna go with the second choice, which is ignoring it. They'll both have the same end result, anyway...

Re:Well.. (1)

KiahZero (610862) | more than 3 years ago | (#36721750)

And that's exactly what the developer who was trolled into using the name did - she's not developing in the community anymore.

Re:Well.. (1)

AngryDeuce (2205124) | more than 3 years ago | (#36721972)

she's not developing in the community anymore.

And this is newsworthy because...?

I'll have to call my local media later. Someone holding a sign with a racial slur made me cross the street once. I don't know how I managed to cope with this without bringing my plight to the masses...

Re:Well.. (5, Insightful)

KiahZero (610862) | more than 3 years ago | (#36722044)

If your goal is to build a community to develop software, doing things which drive people from the community tend to be counterproductive. If, in the alternative, your goal is to establish a community for the purpose of being antisocial jerks, then doing things which drive people who don't like antisocial jerks from the community would be worthwhile, I suppose.

I had thought the goal of this Python community had more to do with the former than the latter, but I could be wrong.

Re:Well.. (0)

AngryDeuce (2205124) | more than 3 years ago | (#36722210)

So one barely risque project name is indicative of being a community of antisocial jerks?

Come on, it's not like we're talking about Project Child Rapist or Project NAMBLA here. You can depict someone trying to get upskirt pics in a comedy and get a PG rating. This women was just too uptight. She made the right choice for her, but I'm sure 99% of people couldn't care less...and the alternative is far worse than a few mildly offensive project names.

Re:Well.. (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36722062)

And if you continue reading after the error ridden article you'll see that it in fact wasn't the name that made her quit, but rather that she felt that she wasn't getting proper credit for her work. But why read when you can look like a raging retard instead?

Re:Well.. (2)

KiahZero (610862) | more than 3 years ago | (#36722192)

Well, reading the words of the woman in question directly, it seems pretty clear that she was disgusted with the way the name issue played out.

Re:Well.. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36721908)

It's not about using or being personally offended by the message but allowing the proliferation of messages that already diminish the freedom of others. The name refers to, in essence, non-consensual sex, therefore carrying a loaded luggage with very significant implications for the oppressed party.

This is not about being politically correct but challenging the ever pervasiveness of sexism, especially on grounds where women remain a minority, for the very reasons that such naming is remotely considere "funny".

Re:Well.. (1)

FatAlb3rt (533682) | more than 3 years ago | (#36722116)

Yet you're fine posting as AC - isn't there some sort of psychological BS you can gin up about that label being oppressive?

Re:Well.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36722156)

Your privilege is showing.

GNAA FP (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36721468)

lol these are easy nowadays. rip /.

Apologies to Mark Twain (1)

just_another_sean (919159) | more than 3 years ago | (#36721524)

The reports of /.'s death are greatly exaggerated.

Re:GNAA FP (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36721536)

FP = Fifth Post

Software does not offend (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36721566)

It's a thing. It' can't do that. It's the *people* that gave it that name who offend. And they are the ones to take responsibility for their actions.

Re:Software does not offend (0)

biodata (1981610) | more than 3 years ago | (#36721662)

Agreed. Also offense is a phenomenon requiring two participants, and the offended person is also (equally I would argue) responsible for the offense.

Re:Software does not offend (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36721756)

Or, you know, male programmers, who by far outnumber females, can show some common sense and decency by not driving away the minority of females in this profession? Why would women want to get involved with FOSS with guys who act like they are still living in their parents basement and have all the maturity of an 18 year old.

Seriously, some people need to stop living up to the stereotype of programmers as being socially maladjusted neuro-atypical douchebags.

Re:Software does not offend (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36722242)

with guys who act like they are still living in their parents basement and have all the maturity of an 18 year old.

I strongly suspect you just described the author. And if not physically, mentally.

Seriously, some people need to stop living up to the stereotype of programmers as being socially maladjusted neuro-atypical douchebags.

Just because its a stereotypes doesn't make it less true. The fact of the matter is, a hugely disproportionate number of people who program ARE socially maladjusted neuro-atypical douchebags. Many people in the profession are specifically in the profession because it attracts the socially maladjusted which is then positively re-enforced by poor management and a blind eye to prima donna douchebaggery. This easily describes well over 70% of everyone I've ever worked with and even somewhat describes myself during the first five to eight years of my own career.

The simple truth of the matter is, in programming circles, the vast majority absolutely are maladjusted, anti-social, douchebags with grossly and almost always unjustified yet massively over inflated egos. Its a stereotype for a reason. While non-politically correct, most stereotypes exist specifically because there is a generalized, large grain of truth at their root.

Re:Software does not offend (1)

KiahZero (610862) | more than 3 years ago | (#36721822)

How exactly is the person who is offended to blame for being offended? Also, just how far does that reasoning stretch?

Re:Software does not offend (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36722010)

Far enough that I am seriously offended by your post.
AND IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT!!!

Re:Software does not offend (1)

KiahZero (610862) | more than 3 years ago | (#36722310)

I'm OK with that.

Assuming arguendo that you are in fact offended (rather than more realistically that you're trolling), it's not that you're culpable for being offended, but rather that your sense of being offended over my statement is not something I'm going to strive to avoid.

This is quite a shocker! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36721596)

Just rename it to BiriBiri.

Re:This is quite a shocker! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36721678)

"What's all this?" asks Misaka as Misaka tilting her head curiously.

CP (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36721602)

my favorite part is when the author boohoos about drawings of girls panties as if they are actually CP.

FCK Editor, anyone? (2)

cultiv8 (1660093) | more than 3 years ago | (#36721632)

It's a slippery slope if the FOSS community enforces decency through naming conventions. However:

It’s not that the names were simply sexual in nature: it was that they targeted a women over the very thing that makes them a minority in the Python community in the first place: you could call it a sexual exploit.

So generally speaking, I support the name change, especially if this is true:

She, not being a native English-speaker, had accepted on trust a foreign-language name for her library. According to Holden, the revelation - and the attention to her unknowing complicity - brought about with the name was so uncomfortable for her that she quit working in open source altogether.

But it's still a slippery slope.

Re:FCK Editor, anyone? (3, Insightful)

KiahZero (610862) | more than 3 years ago | (#36721856)

Easiest way to avoid a slippery slope is to build a fence. Establish guidelines, enforce them, and suddenly your slippery slope becomes quite navigable.

FCK me? (1)

Kamiza Ikioi (893310) | more than 3 years ago | (#36721864)

FSCK you!

Re:FCK me? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36722264)

Fork you then !

FCKeditor isn't really a good example (5, Informative)

Attack DAWWG (997171) | more than 3 years ago | (#36722108)

To be fair, FCKeditor was named after its author, Frederico Caldeira Knabben, who is from Brazil. Evidently that was his real name and he didn't at first realize the unfortunate similarity of his initials to an English swear word--but even if he had realized this, they were still his real initials, so I think he would still have some right to name it that. In any case, the name of the editor has now been changed to CKEditor.

Re:FCK Editor, anyone? (0)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 3 years ago | (#36722284)

"slippery slope"? This is about offensive names, not wet chinese pussy.

Re:FCK Editor, anyone? (1)

arth1 (260657) | more than 3 years ago | (#36722314)

But it's still a slippery slope.

Indeed it is. Sometimes PC based name changes can end up costing millions or more, because the name change isn't obvious, there are legacy apps that depend on a naming, or simply because the name change creates animosity.
Sun's switch from master/slave to the euphemism producer/consumer in order not to offend African-Americans by using the taboo word "slave" is a good example of all three.

Changing a name can, perhaps, be appropriate when there isn't already an established name, but being PC just to be PC is counter-productive.

The first time I heard someone say they needed a pinned to pinless VGA cable, I stood with my mouth open working out that she meant male to female and just refused to use gender based words, even when quite descriptive and well-established. Are these people really so ashamed of their gender that they can't even use the word?

All they're doing is limiting the usefulness (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36721674)

Would anyone working for/at a real-world business ever use any of that software? I highly doubt that anything that can bring about a sexual harassment suit just from publishing its documentation is worth even a penny.

Prior art (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36721692)

Java has a whole gui toolkit named swing.

Re:Prior art (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36721998)

Java has a whole gui toolkit named swing.

Try again. Any prior art should refer to non-consensual sexualization that singles out women. Not being totally hip to the lingo you youngsters use today, but I'd wager that swing, in a sexual context, would be both consensual and inclusive of all people.

And why not women OR men? Because of the same reason that it is not the same if blacks deride whites. Animosity in any direction is probably non-productive, but there's a difference between kicking downwards and kicking upwards. The FOSS community is a place where it is very clear whether men or women are in a stronger position. We don't even need to go into debates about who has what privilege in society at large.

As to what to do about the software of the rude jerk mentioned in TFA, I don't know if censorship would be appropriate.

Re:Prior art (1)

Nadaka (224565) | more than 3 years ago | (#36722094)

And?

Swing has multiple meanings, only one of them is even remotely sexual, and even in that capacity it is not something remotely offensive.

grow up (1)

Nihn (1863500) | more than 3 years ago | (#36721714)

it's good to know people who are supposedly smarter than myself are so stupid as to 1. Name something important in a childish manner and 2. getting offended by something in a language they don't understand in the first place. Things like this negate my faith in the tech industry, it seems like it's filled with either law suit trolls like Sony or pathetic immature people...it's no wonder why there has been a complete lack of original, innovative, or useful tech in the past 20 years.....

Re:grow up (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36721896)

it's no wonder why there has been a complete lack of original, innovative, or useful tech in the past 20 years.....

Dumbest comment of the year nominee here.
And to think, he has the gall at the beginning to imply that there are people who might not be smarter than he is.

How about "when software is named by assholes" (4, Insightful)

jfruhlinger (470035) | more than 3 years ago | (#36721730)

I love how this is all framed as people being "offended," so that everyone can say "Ooh, look at the little baby, so offended by harsh language." When actually the issue is that the names for these (non-panty-related) software has been picked out by dudes who apparently think that it's hilarious to take pictures up women's skirts without their consent (which is what everyone knows "upskirt" and "pantyshot" mean, on the internet). You don't need to be a native speaker of English to know what they think of women.

Re:How about "when software is named by assholes" (2)

KiahZero (610862) | more than 3 years ago | (#36721898)

Hell, even without the sexual harassment issues, the fact that a native speaker of English decided to humiliate a non-native speaker through a name suggestion would seem to indicate that we're not exactly dealing with the nicest people ever,

Re:How about "when software is named by assholes" (1)

10101001 10101001 (732688) | more than 3 years ago | (#36722238)

I think you're missing the big picture, though. If you read the author's statements [instinctive.eu] , I don't think the main problem is with her being manipulated into potentially humiliating herself. It is heavily that instead of having a group of users that take advantage of the library she created, people are quick to condemn her as a "dude" and an "asshole" and focus on "the controversy". If you create something useful to yourself and you think will be useful to others, I don't think you necessarily care too much about the marketing of it.

So, if it offends people, it offends people. The frustrating part was how until "the controversy", there was only around 3 users (including the author) to offend. Isn't the point of FOSS supposed to be about finding useful code? And after multiple years, there's been very little uptake by other people it seems. I can certainly see why, after that, people focusing not on your work but a name or title might push you to say "fuck it, it wasn't worth the effort to contribute".

Having said all that, I do hope the author continues to contribute. I know that I'm well in the same boat, but without "the controversy". I create code and release it and I doubt very many people use that code. It's very disheartening to put a lot of effort into something, think that it's decently useful to people, and have very little positive feedback. But, I always put it in the back of my mind that I need to scratch my own proverbial itches and write code. So, even if I post it online somewhere and no one else ever uses it, the little bit of effort I put into it is worth it. It's not worth running a git tree, perhaps. But, every long once in a while I get at least one comment back from someone. And even if it were "your code sucks", at least it means someone bothered to d/l the code and look at it. :)

Re:How about "when software is named by assholes" (1, Interesting)

DNS-and-BIND (461968) | more than 3 years ago | (#36722028)

Interesting question: how has their[1] view of women been shaped by women's disgust and rejection of them? What THEY think of women...how about what women think of THEM? (there's that scary "them" again...why do we always use this word when we talk about people we don't understand and have no desire to understand?) A little understanding goes a long way. The desire to label men as objects, to say they are nothing more than pantyskirt perverts, dehumanizes men and makes them into complete monsters, undeserving of any sympathy or human dignity.

[1] The modern system of sex and gender would not be possible without a disposition to interpret the difference between genders as the difference between self and Other ... having a sexual object of the opposite gender is taken to be the normal and paradigmatic form of an interest in the Other or, more generally, others. Since over 50% of people are women, their views must be taken as mainstream now.

Re:How about "when software is named by assholes" (2)

jfruhlinger (470035) | more than 3 years ago | (#36722282)

So ... they couldn't get a date in high school, so it's OK for them to name software after a genre that revolves around the (implied or explicit) humiliation of women? I don't think anyone's labelling "men" as objects, I think people are labelling these particular men as rude.

Re:How about "when software is named by assholes" (0)

ElectricTurtle (1171201) | more than 3 years ago | (#36722132)

Your definition is false in its qualifications. Photos taken up skirts with consent are still called upskirt and/or pantyshots. At which point one is just quibbling over paraphilias, both those of the men and those of the women, assuming that the latter aren't acting 100% for financial gain, at which point it becomes a criticism of the ethics/morality of those arrangements.

If its GPLd just make a spin-off (1)

drolli (522659) | more than 3 years ago | (#36721740)

You are free to change the name then.

But i honestly must admit that i never got why you would call your software in any weirdly conotated way. You will just narrow the circle of users. Before i have to explain inside a company where non-geeks also participate in meetings that i use libupskirt i would rename it and use it under the other name.

Re:If its GPLd just make a spin-off (1)

Millennium (2451) | more than 3 years ago | (#36721942)

Yeah, this is what I'm thinking. Fork the thing with two new features: a name you can mention in a business meeting without getting nasty looks from 3/4 of your colleagues, and a lead developer who has actually matured beyond the age of fourteen.

By the way, what does this thing even do?

Re:If its GPLd just make a spin-off (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36722322)

So she's upset about her package-name having sexual connotations, and now you want her to fork it. Slick move.

In the Mind of the .... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36721790)

I was driving the other day and seen a vanity plate "LVSCATS". This could be taken several ways. I am pretty sure that the driver Loved Cats!!

It's not the software which offends (2)

Nimey (114278) | more than 3 years ago | (#36721794)

it's the aspies who give their software hostile and immature names which offend.

What the fuck kind of idiot thinks "upskirt" and "pantyshot" are good names for a computer program?

Oh come on (-1, Troll)

aaaaaaargh! (1150173) | more than 3 years ago | (#36721796)

For Christ's sake it's a name! Who cares about the author's stupid prOn tastes?

And here's the flamebait part: If you use a more mature language than Python (and it's users silly names won't occur and as an additional benefit your programs will run faster. So if e.g. you want to process real pantyshots pixel for pixel I'd suggest using C. If you need to process pantyshots in parallel and with high safety and reliability demands (after all, reliable delivery of prOn is essential for internet economy), Haskell or Ada might also be good choices!

Claims of nonconsent (0)

m50d (797211) | more than 3 years ago | (#36721804)

âoeUpskirtâ is shorthand for porn (images or video) that features a nonconsensual look up a girlâ(TM)s skirt or dress.

I've never seen nonconsent feature in any such definition. It's not the natural reading of the word, and if you look at the way the term is used (e.g. check the tags on any anime imageboard), it generally applies to any picture looking up a skirt, consensual or not. I think the article is misrepresenting the meaning of the word to lend support to its arguments.

Re:Claims of nonconsent (1)

Alex Belits (437) | more than 3 years ago | (#36722194)

For what it's worth, the first scene of Great Teacher Onizuka anime contains just that -- as seen in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flaWaPP2nto [youtube.com] . Series in question are not in any way pornographic, sex is mentioned often but no one actually has sex or shows up naked "on camera". Showing panties on animated girls is about as close to pornography as it gets there.

Re:Claims of nonconsent (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36722298)

I've never seen nonconsent feature in any such definition. It's not the natural reading of the word, and if you look at the way the term is used (e.g. check the tags on any anime imageboard), it generally applies to any picture looking up a skirt, consensual or not.

Nonsense. People in the anime world might use "upskirt" to refer to simulated consensual glimpses (isn't everything "simulated" in anime?), aka "flashing".

But when you're not talking about cartoon characters, "upskirt" always refers to a shot of a woman's crotch/panties that was taken without her knowledge, consent, or intention to show those parts of herself. When it's staged, they still make a point of making it seem as if the woman didn't know it was happening, with fake "hidden" cameras and so forth. Otherwise she'd just be flashing, like at Mardi Gras.

It's all about voyeurism, all about catching a glimpse of something you're not supposed to see -- and by extension, taking the piss out of a woman who thinks she's "too good" to show you those parts of her.

About the best-case scenario are the shots of female athletes (mainly tennis players) where, in the course of playing the game, they briefly expose their butts or crotches. I guess the shots of celebrities getting out of cars with no panties (like that traumatizing Paris Hilton picture...) are about in the same league. In both those situations you can say okay, this was to be expected based on the situation.

But most "upskirt" sites traffic in things like hidden cameras embedded in floors, showing pictures of women who can't reasonably have been thought to have consented to having their nether bits photographed.

Anyone remember Jesux? (1, Flamebait)

Kamiza Ikioi (893310) | more than 3 years ago | (#36721850)

Jesux [slashdot.org] proposed to remove '"kills" and "aborts" and "daemons"' and other anti-christian parts from linux and redistribute it. It was a colossal fail (or more likely a hoax), but it gave us all a pretty good laugh at the time. That was what, 12 years ago? I think that was far more offensive.

Re:Anyone remember Jesux? (1)

Nimey (114278) | more than 3 years ago | (#36721904)

It was a hoax.

Re:Anyone remember Jesux? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36722202)

Even if it weren't a hoax, people taking it upon themselves to modify open-source software to suit their tastes (supposedly a big 'selling' point of OSS) offends you more than fuckwads who think naming a female (and non-native speaker) programmer's OSS library after non-consensual, degrading, and sexually intrusive behavior (that is criminal in a lot of places) is funny?

You're an idiot. People like you are why a lot of people think programmers are socially maladjusted freaks who only dwell on the internet. Stop talking (typing?), as you are making the rest of us look equally idiotic.

Fork the project (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36721920)

Give it the name you want. Open source solves yet another perplexing issue! Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

Why not just rename it? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36722002)

Why does this assholes opinion even matter? What's to stop people from saying 'Ok - now this package is named MDparser'? It seems to me that an offensive name is a perfectly good reason to fork.

a memorable name. (-1, Flamebait)

gl4ss (559668) | more than 3 years ago | (#36722030)

a memorable name, and they change it? who would remember a name like topdownparserXYZ? fucking nobody.

if it's really that easy to offend them, how can they remain online? let's all boycot cd's because you can buy punk bands on cd's.

"Because you are a fine, upstanding kind of reader, I’m sure you know very little about online filth such as pornographic subcategories, their nicknames or history. Luckily for you, I am here to go where bald eagles dare."

bzz wrong. and what's wrong knowing about the stuff? teens? as if they didn't know.

so uh wtf python is now the land of kindergarten where a committee decides what all people do and under what title to boot? there's something very badly wrong with the python community if they go up the walls for something so simple and focus on something stupid like package naming on free software and if it's not free, wtf do they have power over it's name? he shouldn't have renamed it in the first place, he should have just made it better. maybe treating everyone like retards who need guidance is exactly the problem with python community. people who are exclusively only part of python community and treat it as a "friendly community" and use that for their safe social environment should just fuck off anyways, that came on through a bit offensively, yeah. are they going to skip patch number 76768787?(it's a bit hard to 'get' the offending joke in that number but it's there, it's there.. you gotta know both finnish and swedish to get it).


also I think it's extremely sexist to run the community so that you would attract more females to come and stay (and to fall in love and date and etc etc), it's not a dating service. just having it on the agenda to "have more chix, no matter who" is when online communities go south.

Sexism (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36722032)

I don't know the details of this case, but for me these names differ from the (harmless) four-letter words in that they are intrinsically sexistically loaded: based on their use in historic precedent (and hence by their primary association) they are part of a vocabulary that treats women as sex objects. Sexism is far too alive and real to let these slip as an mildly amusing historical references. Using these words as project titles (and hence presumably intending a positive association) is equivalent to naming your new two-class scheduling algorithm the `back-of-the-bus' algorithm: it attempts to associate positive meaning with concepts that stigmatise certain groups of people.

Sorry, but no thank you. Amusing titles are good, but program names whose most obvious meaning appears to be that they support misogyny or racism are too likely to be taken seriously until we've eliminated those problems in RL (which we're quite far away from).

Pretty tasteless, but I can think of worse (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36722034)

Why would you name a parser like that? I mean, I'm all for freedom of speech, and that has to include potentially offensive speech, but why choose that? It's dumb. And I don't mean just the "potentially offensive" angle, but from a technical standpoint too. Talk about poisoning the Google searches! When people go looking for it, the legitimate software library you worked so hard to code is going to be buried way at the end of a long list of ... other stuff. Simultaneously I'm not keen on how easily offended some people are. It's not that bad. I can think of far worse choices.

Suggestion: rename it to "upkilt". That would solve the problem in true Pythonesque style.

This seems to happen from time to time. (4, Interesting)

Millennium (2451) | more than 3 years ago | (#36722038)

I remember about 7-8 years ago, when someone coded up an emulator for the Neo-Geo Pocket Color. The supposed full name of the product (which none of the developers ever used) was "Rather A Pokemon Emulator?" and the logo was a Pikachu poorly Photoshopped for, shall we say, reasons of endowment. I don't recall if the software was open-source or not, but the naming controversy doesn't sound too different from this.

Free speech allows you to name your project whatever you want, no matter how tasteless. Free association, however, allows people to decide not to use your project based on its name. Open-source even lets someone fork it, changing little if anything but the name, and snag the userbase out from under a puerile manchild.

FWIW (1)

jra (5600) | more than 3 years ago | (#36722070)

I don't have a problem with a developer deciding to use names like this for a package, if they want to stick their neck out.

The point here, is apparently that *the developer* wasn't sticking their neck out; someone else did it *for them*. *That*, I have a problem with.

So, y'all people shooting at the name itself? That's a strawman; please look at what's actually offensive here.

What does the software *do*? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36722074)

Maybe the package should just be named after what it *does*, instead of some cutesy name that tells you nothing about the purpose of the software.

Code names are great in proprietary software companies or military/intelligence operations where you're trying to hide what you're doing from your competitors/adversaries. In FOSS, though, generally you want people to use your stuff and contribute to it, and code names interfere with that.

But what do they do? (1)

ildon (413912) | more than 3 years ago | (#36722134)

I read the entire article and still have no idea what the upskirt/pantyshot libraries actually do. Seems like a bit of critical info to leave out of the article.

Leave it be (1)

Just Some Guy (3352) | more than 3 years ago | (#36722150)

There's plenty of stuff that offends me to some degree or another, but I ignore it and move on because I can't censor someone else without giving them the power to censor me in return. Yes, those names are stupid, juvenile, and annoying. I'll be damned if I want to put anyone in the position of having the power to ban or reject software for those reasons, though. I'd rather be offended and annoyed than silenced.

It's a shame (1)

digitalderbs (718388) | more than 3 years ago | (#36722186)

For those who may not know, upskirt is the Markdown parser used and developed at GitHub under the name 'RedCarpet.' Both packages--upskirt is a fast C parser for Markdown, and pantyshot is its python wrapper--are immensely useful. Giving them those names, however, makes it difficult to integrate them into a professional software project. I find this to be the same attitude developers seem to have about users in general--library users, in this case. Some developers have a certain disdain for those whom do not conform to their notions of humor, design, aesthetics, etc. That's fine, it's their software project. Just know that you're shooting yourself in the foot. You're literally wasting your work when people avoid your project over something as trivial as a project name. And if you don't want people to use it in the first place, then why make it free in the first place?

In the case of pantyshot, the developer has associated his name to that project. If I were an prospective employer doing a search on his name, I'd seriously question his judgement.

Here's a better name.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36722206)

Frank Smit is a cocksucking asshole.

I like it.

What happened to professionalism? (1)

DemonGenius (2247652) | more than 3 years ago | (#36722214)

If I was using Python in a professional setting, I definitely wouldn't be using libraries that would bring up child porn warnings (according to TFA) in Google search.

Also, it's nice to have a bit of freedom in naming packages, but if it's at the cost of alienating contributors, then it only hurts open source. I personally wouldn't be comfortable contributing to a package called 'libjigaboo' since that alienates and marginalizes me as a person, but I wouldn't make a hissyfit and quit open source because of that either. There's a reason why we can fork projects after all, it's so we don't have to associate with people who are unproductive to work with.

While it would be helpful if more of us had thicker skin, it is more important to be professional, mature, tactful, and accountable for our actions and inactions. Idiots like Frank Smit set open source back by making us all seem like prepubescent boys. Geeks have enough of an image problem without this douchebag making a royal ass out of himself.

BitchX anyone? (2)

rekoil (168689) | more than 3 years ago | (#36722278)

True story - when I was implementing an internal IRC network for a former employer, I was instructed to add BitchX to our desktop UNIX builds - but rename the binary.

guys who girls won't fsk (2)

fermion (181285) | more than 3 years ago | (#36722312)

Really this has always happened in the male dominated world of technology and math and the like. It is a reflection of the fantasy world of boys and young men that has not yet been tempered with a healthy sex life and fueled by a need to be seen as socially equal to the other men a group, a need that often trumps the wishes of romantic partners. Most men will understand that such language is inappropriate in mixed setting, and not use such language, but some men will have such a need to convince other men of their sexual prowess that they will continue to use such language even to the detriment of the overall community.

It used to be this was much bigger of an issue. Look up mnemonics for resistor color codes for examples. These names are mild in comparison. Boys must understand that a woman who is working on code is not going to look kindly when she is treated primarily as an object to be used to satisfy the boys need for sexual gratification.

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