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Climate Scientists Ask For Help Fighting Somali Pirates

samzenpus posted more than 2 years ago | from the government-ninjas dept.

Australia 300

thebchuckster writes "Scientists are seeking the help of the Australian and US navies to repel Somali pirates who are threatening one of the world's key climate monitoring programs. They hope to deploy about 20 robotic instruments in a no-go area north of Mauritius. The instruments, which record ocean heat and salinity patterns, are programmed to submerge and eventually resurface to upload their data to satellites."

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300 comments

Why don't we give the pirates a choice (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36794856)

Why doesn't the govt give Somalis money for acting morally? If we have to print money to reward virtue, isn't it a good thing and won't society benefit more than if we spend money on punishment, which ends up creating endless cycles of violence and repression?

Re:Why don't we give the pirates a choice (4, Insightful)

BitZtream (692029) | more than 2 years ago | (#36794886)

Because they learned a long time ago they could take the money ... then act immorally anyway and win on both sides.

Re:Why don't we give the pirates a choice (2)

russotto (537200) | more than 2 years ago | (#36794896)

Because they learned a long time ago they could take the money ... then act immorally anyway and win on both sides.

Well, until the Vikings sue them over the patent violation on their business method. It's Danegeld, after all, not Somaligeld.

Re:Why don't we give the pirates a choice (4, Informative)

hedwards (940851) | more than 2 years ago | (#36794940)

Give it to whom precisely? Somalia has been in a civil war for the last 20 years, there isn't anybody that can take the money and make it happen. Most folks there are more concerned with starving or being killed to do anything about this.

Re:Why don't we give the pirates a choice (5, Informative)

Jeremiah Cornelius (137) | more than 2 years ago | (#36795314)

The "civil war" is largely a creation of foreign and now AFRICOM interference.

http://webarchive.ssrc.org/Somalia_Hoehne_v10.pdf [ssrc.org]

"Thanks to half a century of pouring US arms stockpiles into Africa, the price of an assault rifle in Africa has for some time been cheaper than anyplace else on the planet."

http://www.blackagendareport.com/content/africom-americas-military-foot-africas-doorway [blackagendareport.com]

Somali "piracy" is the outcome of the illegal, exhaustive, industrialised over-fishing of Somali waters, by foreign fleets - leaving the coastal towns without any livelihood.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johann-hari/you-are-being-lied-to-abo_b_155147.html [huffingtonpost.com]

http://www.democracynow.org/2009/4/14/analysis_somalia_piracy_began_in_response [democracynow.org]

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1892376,00.html [time.com]

The US manufactures foreign wars and "terrorists" the same way it used to lead in the creation of Automobiles and heavy manufacturing. But remember your Gibbon: The decline of Rome was seeded from its very rise on world's stage.

Re:Why don't we give the pirates a choice (1)

hedwards (940851) | more than 2 years ago | (#36795458)

And your point is? Regardless of how the nation came to be in the state that it's in, there isn't any functioning government there at the moment.

Re:Why don't we give the pirates a choice (3, Interesting)

interkin3tic (1469267) | more than 2 years ago | (#36794978)

Why doesn't the govt give Somalis money for acting morally?

Which government? The Somali government? It sounds like calling that a government is being charitable. Warlords might even be charitable. They just started allowing aid into the country [metro.co.uk] for the worst drought in 60 years with 11 million people starving. [globalpost.com]

The US? We're not really big on spending money overseas except if it's Israel or bombing someone. And, truth be told, we have a terrible record of giving money and aid to bad people only to have to kill them later on after they've killed a lot of innocent people. Though again, the situation is pretty bad already. If there were a way to make the situation worse, the US would be hard-pressed to find it.

Anyone else? Not interested in Somalia or incapable of doing anything. Somalia has been a failed state for a while now.

Re:Why don't we give the pirates a choice (4, Informative)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | more than 2 years ago | (#36795184)

The US? We're not really big on spending money overseas except if it's Israel or bombing someone.

I'm guessing you're young. The US (under President Clinton) sent its military into Somalia in the early 1990s with the goal of stabilizing the situation enough to allow aid (both goverment-sponsored and that of private relief agencies) to help ameliorate an ongoing famine. Given the way it ended, I doubt the US government has much motivation to attempt helping Somalia again.

If you don't trust the slant of a military-published document, dig up some old newspaper archives. I think you'll learn why so many governments appear to be ignoring Somalia.

Re:Why don't we give the pirates a choice (1)

Anachragnome (1008495) | more than 2 years ago | (#36795404)

"Somalia has been a failed state for a while now."

By your definition of government, maybe.

Just because Somalia has a different government structure then most countries (I consider no government "different", and nothing more) does not mean we should preclude them from discussion venues such as the United Nations or even more personal dialogs with individual nations.

Most of these "pirates" are regular people forced into this role by outside influences. Most coastal communities in Somalia have been devastated economically and environmentally by the continued dumping of wastes by foreign governments and corporations, up to and including nuclear waste. More easily put, the ocean they once relied on for food and commerce is no longer viable for either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somalian_pirates#Sovereignty_and_environmental_protection [wikipedia.org]

The 2004 Indian Ocean Tsunami made matters far worse--destroying the remaining fishing boats while leaving the pirate-craft out at sea unharmed. This was the "push" that forced a lot of legitimate fishermen into piracy. A little diplomacy and some aid in the form of fat, slow fishing boats might have gone a long way in preventing piracy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effect_of_the_2004_Indian_Ocean_earthquake_on_Somalia [wikipedia.org]

The Media is partly to blame for ignoring the root cause of the situation and instead focusing on the result--desperate people doing what they can to survive.

What these people need is someone to speak for them (it shouldn't really matter who), and more importantly, someone to listen.

Excuses excuses... (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36795486)

It's the U.S., who created this civil war.

No, it's the media. No it's...

Maybe it's just base tribalism rearing its ugly head. Oops, did I just blame the Somalis for being responsible for their own behavior? How very callous and imperialistic of me. Root causes, root causes: smart Western people will dig it out.

Re:Why don't we give the pirates a choice (1)

SpongeBob Hitler (1848328) | more than 2 years ago | (#36795024)

Why doesn't the govt give Somalis money for acting morally? If we have to print money to reward virtue, isn't it a good thing and won't society benefit more than if we spend money on punishment, which ends up creating endless cycles of violence and repression?

You know, if you look at some of my other posts, I'm a fairly liberal live-and-let-live kind of guy. But, considering what the Somali pirates are doing, the only solution is to kill the bastards!

Re:Why don't we give the pirates a choice (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36795120)

You know, if you look at some of my other posts, I'm a fairly liberal live-and-let-live kind of guy. But, considering what the Somali pirates are doing, the only solution is to kill the bastards!

So "SpongeBob" is the "liberal live-and-let-live" part and "Hitler" is the "kill the bastards" part of your split-personality?

Re:Why don't we give the pirates a choice (1)

Cinder6 (894572) | more than 2 years ago | (#36795092)

So now we can get paid for acting nicely? And here I've been doing it for free!

Awesome work Pirates! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36794858)

Keep up the good fight against globalism and socialism. We all know that climate science has nothing to do with helping the environment.

Re:Awesome work Pirates! (1)

phantomfive (622387) | more than 2 years ago | (#36795000)

Pirates don't care about socialism. They vaguely care about globalism inasmuch as it affects the number/type of ships that go by. Mainly they just want to get rich, like 90% of the rest of the world.

The point is, the scientists need to drop the sensors into the pirate infested waters, and no commercial ship dares to go there. So they are hoping a military ship will take them to drop the sensors. Hope it works out.

Re:Awesome work Pirates! (1)

ralphdaugherty (225648) | more than 2 years ago | (#36795018)

US and other naval warships patrol the area. All you have to do is ask to tag along behind one and drop the sensors.

No extra cost, no big deal.

Re:Awesome work Pirates! (1)

belthize (990217) | more than 2 years ago | (#36795090)

That's kind of the whole point. They need to place them in specific locations, so they're asking to tag along behind one after it goes where they need it to.

Correlation (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36794862)

But global warming is caused by a lack of pirates!

Re:Correlation (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36794948)

No - global warming is caused by an oversupply of ninjas.

Re:Correlation (3, Insightful)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 2 years ago | (#36795034)

Hmm... when looking at the governments around the world, I'd say it's due to an overpopulation of zombies.

But Pirates! Global warming! Skewed Data! (0, Redundant)

Anonymous Cowar (1608865) | more than 2 years ago | (#36794876)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster#Pirates_and_global_warming [wikipedia.org]

Everyone knows that pirates have an inverse effect on global temperature! If there are pirates in the area, then the data will be skewed. No wonder those scientists want those pirates gone.

Re:But Pirates! Global warming! Skewed Data! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36794892)

Piracism!

Pastafarians (1)

jorrizza (1876342) | more than 2 years ago | (#36794882)

Que the Pastafarian jokes in 3..2..1..

Re:Pastafarians (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36794958)

*checks the time stamps*

Sorry, you were one minute late. Those damned dirty Pastafarians apparently have invented time travel. Does his noodliness's gifts know any bounds?

Re:Pastafarians (1)

ae1294 (1547521) | more than 2 years ago | (#36795012)

*checks the time stamps*

Sorry, you were one minute late. Those damned dirty Pastafarians apparently have invented time travel. Does his noodliness's gifts know any bounds?

FAITH

Aircraft? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36794888)

How big are these things and how long does it take to deploy them? Can't they just drop them from an aircraft like a sonar buoy? If the things can't take an airdropping perhaps a flying boat is an option?

no pirates, higher temps (1)

rzitex (2206668) | more than 2 years ago | (#36794908)

Despite the fact they threaten climate monitoring equipment, anyone else go straight to "the lack of pirates is the reason for global warming argument". haha

Easy solution (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 2 years ago | (#36794918)

House the probes in old WW2 mines - armed of course...

Then just give the big shipping boats GPS coordinates, and let the pirates "find" them if they wish.

Seems to solve multiple problems as the pirates find more and more of them...

Re:Easy solution (2)

C0R1D4N (970153) | more than 2 years ago | (#36795048)

Or issue letters of mark so any old person who can go hunt em down for fun!

Re:Easy solution (5, Insightful)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 2 years ago | (#36795086)

'Letter of Marque and Reprisal'.

Given that the pirates are using any old junk to mount their attacks, I'm guessing that there would be no economic incentive to hunt them down under the historical mechanism of condemnation and sale. Some sort of bounty-based alternative, in addition to the cost, would amount to offering to pay anybody who can come up with a few rusty Kalashnikovs and a boat full of dead Somalis. What could possibly go wrong?

Re:Easy solution (1)

arisvega (1414195) | more than 2 years ago | (#36795156)

Given that the pirates are using any old junk to mount their attacks

This assumption is wrong; under their current business model, they (the warlords) reinvest the ransom into better hardware and manpower- what they lack in style they make up with fast boats, many hands, and *lots* of ammo.

This piracy thing is in no way a one-time-only gig; look how it goes on and on.

Re:Easy solution (2)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 2 years ago | (#36795394)

They have made some upgrades; but not nearly to the point where condemning and selling off their used gear would make up for the cost of capturing it in the first place... Worse, from the perspective of powers interested in trade security and stability(rather than just getting some blood in the water and reveling in the righteous vengeance), history suggests that low-budget privateers are often little better than pirates themselves and 'respectable' mercenaries get really expensive.

Re:Easy solution (0)

swb (14022) | more than 2 years ago | (#36795254)

Some sort of bounty-based alternative, in addition to the cost, would amount to offering to pay anybody who can come up with a few rusty Kalashnikovs and a boat full of dead Somalis. What could possibly go wrong?

You say that like it's a bad thing.

Re:Easy solution (2)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 2 years ago | (#36795480)

Even if you have a sociopathic disregard for civilian casualties(after all, pirates are a pain to find and sometimes fight back, while you can obtain villagers by the villageful...) you'd be an idiot to make such a bounty offer: anything high enough to motivate sufficiently competent people to take on the risk and time commitment of doing some actual pirate hunting would be well above the cost to an unscrupulous operator of securing a few corpses, some cheap small arms, and a dinghy of some description. Heck, even the pirates might get into the game of bundling casualties and/or enemies with junked hardware and bounty-ing the package off for a tidy profit!

Re:Easy solution (1)

zippthorne (748122) | more than 2 years ago | (#36795324)

Letters of Mark are what you issue to create pirates. The recipient then goes and harasses the shipping of your enemies, and you hope(*) that they'll be treated as prisoners of war if captured, rather than summarily executed or whatever your enemy does to criminals and spies.

(*) you probably don't care, but you pretend to, to bolster the number of ships willing to take the deal.

Re:Easy solution (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36795520)

that's what i was thinking, make them into mines. whoever approches them goes boom. they might lose a couple but the rest won't be touched.

Pirates! (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36794924)

Ah ha, so there _is_ a correlation between pirates and global warming!

Re:Pirates! (1)

Sulphur (1548251) | more than 2 years ago | (#36794964)

Ah ha, so there _is_ a correlation between pirates and global warming!

Hockey stick indeed; its scimitar shaped.

Avast, you'll no be needing that gold now.

No Problem- (0)

gearloos (816828) | more than 2 years ago | (#36794928)

I know this guy, he goes by Capt. Jack Sparrow. He'd be happy to help, I'm sure. I heard he is out of work now a days.

Huh? (-1, Flamebait)

arcticinfantry (1130171) | more than 2 years ago | (#36794930)

Why do climate scientists need real world observations? I thought they already new the evil co2 spewing human race would destroy itself by raising the temperature 5.3456345 degrees on July 4 2104 at 10:01 and 234 ms.

Re:Huh? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36795044)

Ah, be PROUD of your stupidity! Why not?

Re:Huh? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36795054)

Keep on trolling for the oil industry, there's a good lad. They need real-world observations because they have two things you don't have - intellectual curiosity and honesty.

Re:Huh? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36795142)

And complete lack of addressing FOIA requests for their data for independent verification.

Now what were you saying about intellectual curiosity and honesty? Even Al Gore admitted he lied about global warming in an effort to get more votes when he was running for president. Its actually pretty hard to find an AGW statement that hasn't been proven false or as an attempt to steal money from others. I've been looking for years and I don't have one that can stand vetting yet.

Re:Huh? (2)

NoNonAlphaCharsHere (2201864) | more than 2 years ago | (#36795180)

(same AC as GP) Everyone knows the "bury the researchers in millions of bogus, frivolous FOIA requests" is simply a tactic of the oil-industry shills - about as intellectually honest as "teach the controversy" from the anti-evolution tards - or, more to the point, about the same as the tobacco industry's decades of stonewalling that no evidence existed for a link between smoking and cancer.

Re:Huh? (1)

riverat1 (1048260) | more than 2 years ago | (#36795252)

Name me one Presidential candidate recently who hasn't exaggerated to make a point. Maybe Ron Paul but I doubt it.

It's damn near impossible to find an "anti-AGW" statement that has not been proven false or at least ridiculously exaggerated.

Re:Huh? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36795408)

I don't read a shred of evidence from anti-AGW stuff, why bother. I read EVERY shred from AGW people, and EVERY SHRED of it has been proven false. Phil Jones admitted to manipulating data to prove global warming and still couldn't. Al Gore admitted to hyping it to get votes. IPCC lied about glaciers in Tibet and took 3 years of people telling them they lied before they admitted it. IPCC said by 2010 there would be 50 million "climate refugees" and quietly took down that claim from their web site. They just ran a story saying coal plants in China were preventing global warming (so does burning coal create or prevent global warming, whichever way it currently is going apparently is the truth).

There isn't a SHRED of evidence proving AGW. Not a sliver anywhere. EVERY claim they make ends up being wrong, everyone involved stands to make millions based on legislation based off of it.

Go ahead and keep doubling down on you ignorance. The rest of us already know you are clueless and it doesn't bother me to know that one more liberal is a complete moron and proudly shouting it out to the world.

Super intelligent (1)

microbox (704317) | more than 2 years ago | (#36795158)

It doesn't matter to you whether scientists collect data or not. You will just assume you know better -- right? The beliefs come first, and then the "evidence" is lawyered by your "super" intelligence. There is indeed an inverse relationship between someone's competence, and their own belief in their competence.

Re:Super intelligent (1)

zippthorne (748122) | more than 2 years ago | (#36795256)

There is indeed an inverse relationship between someone's competence, and their own belief in their competence.

<pedant>Wait.. so what does that say about your competence?</pedant>

How about these techies use tech to save the day? (1)

BitZtream (692029) | more than 2 years ago | (#36794934)

Seriously, throw an active sonar pinger on it, before it surfaces to send radio data, have it do a few active pings and make sure no one else is around before surfacing, sending the data, and re-submerging.

You'd probably want to put a little effort into having multiple sensor units pinging at the same time to make it hard for them (the pirates without a lot of tech) to triangulate based on the pulse source.

You're talking a 5 pound sonar module and a few lines of code, a few thousand dollars, far far less that putting a bunch of fully crewed ships burning fuel and food in the area. Hell, do they not already have sonar modules on them for sensing water speed and temp at depth, or looking for thermoclines?

Re:How about these techies use tech to save the da (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36794980)

They just need help to get there, deploy them, and leave.

Re:How about these techies use tech to save the da (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36795052)

They're taking the ships not the buoys. The buoys are expendable, they drift till they die. They can be scuttled if needed. The ones we use are capable of being air dropped.

The real issue (4, Interesting)

gearloos (816828) | more than 2 years ago | (#36794946)

The real issue is in how the global security is executed. When these pirates are caught, it is up to the country of the vessel's home port to pay for extradition and prosecution. You may be surprised but in the majotrity of cases, the pirates are arrested and then days later released as the government of the vessels home country decides not to extradite as they don't want the expense of shipping tham, then housing them in prison. A solution? Well, go back to how we used to deal with pirates. Tried by a captain on ship and walk the plank into the water 300 miles off shore. Done. Problem solved.

Re:The real issue (1)

Haedrian (1676506) | more than 2 years ago | (#36795096)

They didn't generally make pirates walk the plank...

What they used to do is hang them in a public place off the shore (or just their head). So other pirates will see a bunch of bodies and get scared.

Re:The real issue (1)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 2 years ago | (#36795106)

I think you might be a little confused there: plank-walking was a highly irregular practice, only indulged in by pirates and similar types on rare occasion. State-sanctioned naval executions were usually hangings.

Re:The real issue (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36795118)

Or have privateers that get paid to deal with them.

Or just buy them off -- probably the cheapest solution.

Re:The real issue (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Cowpat (788193) | more than 2 years ago | (#36795124)

The Royal Navy used to sail back into port with the pirates still swinging from the yardarm. Icky.

But seriously, given that we're talking about a handful of people, the expense is trifling for any Western government - the problem is jurisdictional issues. Essentially, many of the European countries doubt that their constitutions would allow them to exercise jurisdiction; others doubt that a case could be proven beyond reasonable doubt; Kenya is fed up of being a dumping ground for sufficient numbers of pirates as actually do make them a financial burden and Somalia has no functioning government to do anything.

Re:The real issue (1)

riverat1 (1048260) | more than 2 years ago | (#36795270)

It's also a rather large area of ocean that needs to be covered which requires quite a few ships. Maybe one aircraft carrier could do it but that's still a big commitment. Something like a modernized PT boat would be pretty effective I imagine.

death penalty for vadnalism? (4, Insightful)

decora (1710862) | more than 2 years ago | (#36795162)

any pirates who would attack scientific intstruments are committing property crime. the death penalty seems a little harsh.

as for the pirates that attack people, well, somalia doesn't really have a government to speak of.

and if you think you can 'solve the problem' by intimidating a few of them, you might want to read about what motivates them in the first place. i.e. there is a massive drought in the region right now, millions of people are starving... as i write this.

if i were in their shoes, and you asked me if i wanted to be a pirate, and maybe eat, i dont know what i would say. you see, i've never been starving to death and watched my whole family die.

in my humble opinion, instead of starting a nother never ending 'war on piracy', we could instead try to stop the corruption and malfeasance that prevent the somalis from engaging in ordinary business activity. i.e. start enforcing international laws regarding the fisheries off of their coasts.

Re:death penalty for vadnalism? (-1, Flamebait)

gearloos (816828) | more than 2 years ago | (#36795306)

Oh im sorry here, I have a tree for you to hug.. Asshats like you are the problem today. i wish there was a law to kill stupidity.

Re:death penalty for vadnalism? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36795428)

Wow, you really are an ignorant jerk. Decora is exactly right. These people don't go pirating just for the fun of it. While you probably sit in the luxury of a western country with public infrastructure, commercial infrastructure, some level of govt healthcare, a strong military, a roof over your head and a large supermarket nearby that carries 30,000+ stock lines, these people don't enjoy any of that. No government, no supermarkets, no internet, no roof. They go pirating because it's the only way to make a bit of money so they can compete for the scarce resources available. Before you start talking about killing anyone, try living in Mogadishu for 3 months. Head there with only the clothes on your back and see how long before you resort to barbarism.

Re:death penalty for vadnalism? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36795558)

Well why don't you volunteer to improve things over there? Or maybe give a little donation of your precious hard earned money to an aid agency? Or perhaps just get out of your mom's basement?

Re:death penalty for vadnalism? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36795320)

It would seem to me that the real problem here is FOOD then. It amazes me how stupid society is. People don't commit crime out of desire to commit crime. They do so out of need. It may be they need to eat. The need to be safe (shelter). It may be they need to have sex (be it intercourse or otherwise sexually stimulating to the particular individual). They need to live (experience other pleasures- ups/downs)! Solve these and you solve all crime. The first is easy. It is a cost. The second is a bit harder although probably doable. Fantasies are not reality and probably already solve 99.98% of societies deviant sexual desires which begs the question of why there are any crimes for possession materials (consensual or otherwise) or consensual sexual activity. Then you have shelter issue. Seems easy to solve too. People really don't need that much space. They manage to fit people into very small cells in prison. Lets do this OUT of prison x 2 the space per person and you could even charge them for it- because after all someone making money can pay SOMETHING compared to the person in jail making nothing. Then you have the living issue. This is probably the most difficult one of all. Society has allowed the wealth gap to occur which means people are not able to survive on a minimal income. Guarantee a minimal level of income that meets the needs for the essentials based on what 75% of the population posses. If 75% of the population posses a phone a phone becomes an essential. If 75% of have televisions then a TV becomes an essential. If 75% have cars then a car becomes an essential. If 75% of the population have water then water is an essential. Then provide for cost of such items based on the average of those items within the middle class.

Re:death penalty for vadnalism? (2)

Mashiki (184564) | more than 2 years ago | (#36795412)

So I guess boarding a boat and pillaging it is simply the 'confiscation of non-legal goods in their territory', and as such people shouldn't be put to death for it. Yeah the Russians have a good idea to deal with pirates, kill them at sea. Of course the rest of the western world has a 'catch and release' program. Where the pirates are caught, and dumped back ashore. There's a real reason why that trade land became safer when the Russians got there.

Re:The real issue (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36795200)

No, its not a matter of expenses, its a simple matter of avoiding a political shitstorm.

Its gotten the point where politicians simply "pass the buck" but instead of actually "passing the buck" onto someone else, they simply throw it out the window and pretend its gone... even though the shitpile has stacked up so high its flowing back through the window.

Re:The real issue (1)

pete6677 (681676) | more than 2 years ago | (#36795286)

The proper way to deal with pirates is to kill them on the spot. No other method works. Jurisdictional issues are a nightmare, so criminal trial is out of the question. No need for needless brutality by sending home their body parts or anything like that; just shoot them and feed them to the sharks. If there are any legal inquiries after the fact, just remember they fired first and the victim ship was doing what was necessary to save the lives of the crew. Nobody needs to hear any differently.

Ocean already gone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36794952)

Sorry but the oceans are already gone, they won't take the acidity and heat. All this research won't convince anybody. Better fight the oil and coal companies, but they be protectud by thems criminal bankers.

But these are bots! How do you threaten them? (1)

Provocateur (133110) | more than 2 years ago | (#36794968)

"Oooh, a Somali pirate! I'm scared now! Oh sure, the scientists will pay whatever you ask them! Here, take my leg! Please! So I can be a peg leg like you! Let's see what your Mom has to say about that!"

What is, flypaper? (0)

vlm (69642) | more than 2 years ago | (#36794996)

Scientists are seeking the help of the Australian and US navies to repel Somali pirates who are threatening one of the world's key climate monitoring programs. ... The instruments, ... are programmed to submerge

Not seeing the problem here. Make them big, really F-ing big, like mil-surp naval submarine big. Wrap with flypaper. Any pirate who wants to touch a submerging sub covered with flypaper is welcome to try it. In fact I double dog dare them, just like kids licking a flagpole in the winter...

Re:What is, flypaper? (2)

belthize (990217) | more than 2 years ago | (#36795102)

Having a tough life ?

The problem isn't the instruments, the problem is pirates attacking the scientists as they go to place them. The area of interest is a no-go area of the Indian Ocean.

But with piracy in the western Indian Ocean making it too dangerous for commercial or research vessels to deploy the robotic devices, Australia's government research department, the CSIRO, hope naval forces will help them out.

Does this relate to... (0)

commandermonkey (1667879) | more than 2 years ago | (#36795030)

The Nation's article on CIA black sites [thenation.com]? I may have been in a bubble, but I don't recall many articles mentioning Somalia until The Nation ran their article about the US Torture camps in Somalia.

Now I see article, after article, about how there is a humanitarian crisis in that country is caused by people the US want to torture/murder and now an article about how climate change research is being hampered by evil people in the area. It all seems a little much.

I really want to stay away from tinfoil hat material but, when a story about torture camps run by the US gov seems to be ignored and then humanization problems seems to appear at the same time, I can't help but wonder if a counter information campaign, like what the hack on HBGary help to expose [arstechnica.com] may be responsible.

Re:Does this relate to... (1)

Elbereth (58257) | more than 2 years ago | (#36795128)

Are you seriously saying that you never heard of Somalia before a few days ago? You never heard about the brutality of the warlords, the civil war, the pirates, the international naval effort to patrol the piracy-infested waters, and the kidnappings that the pirates have engaged in? I'm kind of hoping that's not what you meant, but it's difficult to construe it in any other way. Even Slashdot has reported off-and-on about the situation, though nowhere near as much as the constant barrage of Facebook, Twitter, Google, and Apple stories.

I'm honestly surprised that you'd be completely ignorant about what's going on over there. If I weren't so lazy, I'd pull up some slashdot stories about Somalia, to point out that this has been big news for several years now.

Re:Does this relate to... (1)

commandermonkey (1667879) | more than 2 years ago | (#36795182)

Yes, I am aware of the issues with starvation in poverty in most of Africa and other parts of the non-industrialized world. Somalia also covers the Horn of Africa and is a prime staging ground for pirates attacking ships heading through the Suez. I also have seen sporadic coverage throughout the years that tends to peak when some sexy news story hits about pirates or something else, black hawk downs incident was what, 2 decades ago?

Point taken though, this was probably the wrong story to comment on this about. I think I am just confused that a non-story about the relaties of maritime activity in the region, that probably would have been ignored a few weeks ago, happens to rise to a point of note.

M2 Browning (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36795078)

http://www.wikipedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/M2_Browning [wikipedia.org]

Why make things difficult?

Re:M2 Browning (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36795482)

Why would a .50 MG help? Besides small arms they also have rocket propelled grenades like the RPG-7. Somali skiffs and motherships have been known to mount recoilless rifles and the pirates' shore establishments have these, plus mortars (light mortars have also been present on their attack boats), heavy machine guns, and even autocannons.

Pirates (0)

hackus (159037) | more than 2 years ago | (#36795094)

Science is a great endeavor, but when hundreds of millions can't eat, something is wrong and it has nothing to do with global warming.

It is called global-ISM and it has to be eliminated. If it is not stopped with its policies of artificial scarcity of oil, and natural resources to jack up prices for the super wealthy and destroy everyone else through the ruthless MBA programs that teach it is OK to use slave labor to produce things, we are going to have a third world war.

The amount of destruction has to be seen to be believed from these policies. Whole cities in the USA look like they have been bombed out like Dresden in Germany in WW II. Michigan, California, Ohio...the number of states look awful..almost third world like.

What this amounts to is too much is owned by too few. You can't even grow your own food in many states in the US because Monsanto is on every local county board paying people off to arrest and fine people who threaten any revenue stream from the local grocery store.

They don't want people able to feed themselves.

You know most of these pirates simply want to have food medical care and a way to support their families. People who have food, and a means to support themselves and their families are usually very enthusiastic about science and learning.

I think if I was in their position I would probably do the same thing....only I would be much more, creative about it and sink every ship I get my hands on. They could make huge changes in world order if they were to do that.

That way you could steal any of the commodities on the vessel then sink it and get out before anyone gets there. You also then have a much higher rate of survival.

-Hack

Re:Pirates (1)

microbox (704317) | more than 2 years ago | (#36795174)

You know most of these pirates simply want to have food medical care and a way to support their families. People who have food, and a means to support themselves and their families are usually very enthusiastic about science and learning.

This is true, but their behaviour is caused by systemic violence and corruption in their society. Either you go into their country and tame the savages (we all know how that turns out), or you let them sort out their own problems. If you choose the later, then shooting pirates is just applying the golden rule. If I engaged in piracy myself, I would expect violence to be a natural consequence of my actions. They have to learn how to take care of themselves without leeching off of others.

Re:Pirates (1)

korean.ian (1264578) | more than 2 years ago | (#36795178)

Oh please. Globalization has been around for a couple of centuries, the only thing that has changed is the scope of operations. By encompassing more of the globe, more people have better lives than they ever had before. (btw how's that computer you're using working out for you?)
You should apologize to the people in Dresden who went through that - to compare inner cities in the US to that is ridiculous hyperbole.
I'm very grateful that if things ever became as bad here in North America as they are in Somalia that you aren't my neighbour - if they want to feed themselves and have proper medical care then perhaps they should stop shooting at each other in a bloody civil war and try and work together to build their society. They could start by asking for help (re)building ports, as they have a large coastline to work with, which would provide jobs and money to fund other activities.

Re:Pirates (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36795220)

No ones stopping the pirates from growing food. They could even grow enough that they could sell some to pay for medical care.

Leftist moron (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36795348)

"You know most of these pirates simply want to have food medical care and a way to support their families. People who have food, and a means to support themselves and their families are usually very enthusiastic about science and learning."

Sure. Unless they're black.

There is no 'global warming' (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36795198)

www.climatedepot.com

For god's sake, will some of you actually READ the facts, instead of maintaining this stupid meme?

Here's the thing about that.. (0)

EmagGeek (574360) | more than 2 years ago | (#36795226)

The submersibles have already been programmed with the data they will transmit...

Profit (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36795240)

At least the pirates are honest about their profit motivation. Maybe, the climate "scientists" should offer to cut the pirates in on the scam!

IRONY (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36795336)

How ironic, the reason they are forced into piracy to live is because europe has been dumping their chemical and radioactive waste off their coast... which is pretty much where 100% of their food source resides.

Bad pirates (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36795346)

More than 30 nations are involved in the multi-million pound Argo project, in which 3,000 robotic instruments provide data on the heat and saltiness of the world's oceans. The information is of great value to scientists who are able to forecast weather patterns and advise farmers of the likelihood of rainfall and floods.

Well what have done those 30 nations when overfishing and nuclear waste [youtube.com] dumping was done in somalian coasts for decades, taking advance from the absence of somalia costguard? That is not a major enviromental isue, or what? What is the scientific advise to somalia people they face right now a _major_ drought crisis? Justice for all...

The Aussies can throw didgeridoos at the pirates. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36795376)

Also, they can sing such timeless classics of Aussie "culture" such as 'Tie Me Kangaroo Down, Sport' and 'The Jolly Swagman' (or whatever the fuck they're actually called), which will have the pirates cutting their own throats in no time.

A DEEEEN GO STOLE MOY BAI BE!

Why not pay off the pirates. (1)

w0mprat (1317953) | more than 2 years ago | (#36795380)

Not just pay them not to attack, but pay them to go and place the bouys for you. Why? Because it gives them money from a non-piracy endeavour, their primary intention being financial gain. It's money they would have otherwise sought through ransom etc, and ulimtately keeps good people out of harms way. Would they hold the bouys to ransom? Well maybe, but you could make sure they are expendable, after all it's the data you want.

Or just get a Navy vessel to drop off the gear. Get in some target practice on anything that approaches. Only way to be sure.

Re:Why not pay off the pirates. (1)

mpoulton (689851) | more than 2 years ago | (#36795532)

Why? Because it gives them money from a non-piracy endeavour...

Such as what? It would certainly give them more money to fun piracy-based endeavors, though.

For me, this is the only valid solution (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36795452)

Pay for a vastly expensive mission of friendship and understanding that carries vast amount of cash and bling with the aim of getting a MoU with the pirates and a mutually agreeable but non-binding protocol where they get to pillage etc as much as they want, but they should try and avoid enlarging their carbon footprint or damaging etc the sensors that are so critical. Repeat this every six months and everyone's happy.

Cost? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36795524)

The article discusses many of the benefits of what those guys are asking for, but none of the costs.

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