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IE6 Still Going Strong In China

timothy posted more than 2 years ago | from the not-so-big-in-japan dept.

Internet Explorer 158

RackNine writes "Net Applications estimates that IE6 has a share of 33.8% in China, StatCounter estimates about 40.2%. Consider the fact that there are currently about 477 million Internet users in China and you get 160 to 192 million IE6 users. That is potentially more than all Internet users in Africa and the Middle East combined (187 million)."

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NetCraft (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36808370)

I'm waiting for NetCraft to confirm it.

Aye, pirates be the reason IE6 just won’t di (2)

troyhunt (548831) | more than 2 years ago | (#36808372)

...and StatCounter also reports that Windows XP - the most frequently pirated OS in existence - is still powering along at 81% Coincidence? Nay, I think not: http://www.troyhunt.com/2010/08/aye-pirates-be-reason-ie6-just-wont-die.html [troyhunt.com]

Re:Aye, pirates be the reason IE6 just won’t (1)

yarnosh (2055818) | more than 2 years ago | (#36808472)

But couldn't they be running a somewhat modern version of Firefox? I know recent versions don't run on XP, but certainly there's something more capable than IE6 that will run on XP. IE7? IE8? Opera? Chrome? Are the Chinese really so lazy as Americans that they can't be bothered to upgrade beyond the default browser?

Re:Aye, pirates be the reason IE6 just won’t (2)

stms (1132653) | more than 2 years ago | (#36808498)

They may just be too lazy to figure out how to activate which can be pretty complex if you're not willing to pay. Which means they may be stuck with SP1 or even worse no service pack. I can't remember if Firefox 3+ requires a service pack or not but I know a lot of applications require Windows XP SP2.

Re:Aye, pirates be the reason IE6 just won’t (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36809568)

Seriously? If you can pirate XPSP1 you can pirate XPSP2. SP3 is a free download from MS.com.

Re:Aye, pirates be the reason IE6 just won’t (1)

Firehed (942385) | more than 2 years ago | (#36808504)

China is going through the same thing we more or less fixed about... six or seven years ago. Websites are coded to IE6 because everyone uses IE6, and everyone uses IE6 because that's the only thing that will render these websites "correctly".

Between that and the Great Firewall, China might as well be considered as having its own version of the Internet.

Re:Aye, pirates be the reason IE6 just won’t (2)

Keruo (771880) | more than 2 years ago | (#36809064)

Rendering is not the issue, the main problem is custom activex which is pushed even from government web sites.

Re:Aye, pirates be the reason IE6 just won’t (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36808510)

Not lazy. I bet most are probably not aware. They may also not see the need for a better browser? Compatibility of websites they visit, HTML files they receive, etc... could be an issue. Not to mention that there are tons of IE derived shells that claim to be a different browser to the user but reports itself as IE to websites. Most users can't see the diff between those and other browsers.

Re:Aye, pirates be the reason IE6 just won’t (1)

Balthisar (649688) | more than 2 years ago | (#36808556)

(I can't access my Bank of China account on anything but IE; BOC requires a browser plugin for "security" that won't run on anything but IE. Guess I'll be doing all of my online banking at work, because I run Macs and Linux at the house.)

Chinese don't need anything but IE to access their internet, because their internet is damned ugly with no sense of design or aesthetics. The entire Chinese internet is like visiting MySpace. The few sites that cater to us expats usually have non-Chinese designers.

Re:Aye, pirates be the reason IE6 just won’t (1)

badran (973386) | more than 2 years ago | (#36808694)

So basically they are still in the Geocities era of perpetual under construction gifs.

Re:Aye, pirates be the reason IE6 just won’t (1)

wisty (1335733) | more than 2 years ago | (#36808974)

(I can't access my Bank of China account on anything but IE; BOC requires a browser plugin for "security" that won't run on anything but IE. Guess I'll be doing all of my online banking at work, because I run Macs and Linux at the house.)

Chinese don't need anything but IE to access their internet, because their internet is damned ugly with no sense of design or aesthetics. The entire Chinese internet is like visiting MySpace. The few sites that cater to us expats usually have non-Chinese designers.

ActiveX for security, yep, that's smart.

As for Chinese website design, I think it's partly linguistic. Chinese can fit a whole sales pitch on two square inches. So their websites look like lots of little boxes, all crammed together. It's a weird aesthetic. Japan has it too. Other websites (especially official ones) are just badly designed, by someone with more "connections" than skill.

Re:Aye, pirates be the reason IE6 just won’t (1)

value_added (719364) | more than 2 years ago | (#36809704)

As for Chinese website design, I think it's partly linguistic. Chinese can fit a whole sales pitch on two square inches. So their websites look like lots of little boxes, all crammed together. It's a weird aesthetic.

Not sure whether the Ling's Cars [lingscars.com] website is representative of the weird aesthetic you refer to, but it's a hoot nevertheless.

A must see for aspiring web designers everywhere. ;-)

Re:Aye, pirates be the reason IE6 just won’t (1)

cjb658 (1235986) | more than 2 years ago | (#36810134)

The entire Chinese internet is like visiting MySpace. The few sites that cater to us expats usually have non-Chinese designers.

Oh, so that's where GeoCities went!

Re:Aye, pirates be the reason IE6 just won’t (1)

sparrowhead (1795632) | more than 2 years ago | (#36808542)

The recent and future versions of Firefox do run on XP. I think you mixed that up with Win98/Me which is not supported since Firefox 3

Re:Aye, pirates be the reason IE6 just won’t (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36808598)

Firefox 3's still a pretty decent browser though, especially compared to IE6. No HTML5 support, but hell, IE didn't get it until this year.

Re:Aye, pirates be the reason IE6 just won’t (5, Funny)

obarthelemy (160321) | more than 2 years ago | (#36808716)

The next 10 versions of FireFox will still support XP. That should cover us till the end of next week.

Re:Aye, pirates be the reason IE6 just won’t (1)

asdf7890 (1518587) | more than 2 years ago | (#36809200)

But do they support XP before any service packs are installed? Many software packages don't officially support XP "pure" or XP with just service pack 1. If FF needs SP2 and most of the pirate copies over there are still running "pure" or SP1 due to activation issues stopping the service packs installing then FF is not an option.

Though I think a lot of web based apps like online banking facilities use ActiveX for stuff over there (and in other countries, such as South Korea, too), which locks users into IE of some sort to an extent. IE6 is probably common (if the piracy is as big an issue as I'm lead to believe) because IIRC IE7 and IE8 won't install without an "activated" copy of XP with SP2 or later applied.

Re:Aye, pirates be the reason IE6 just won’t (3, Informative)

rdebath (884132) | more than 2 years ago | (#36808576)

It's only IE8+ that doesn't run on XP.

All the others run on XP and several of them will still run on 2000 and even 95/98.

The problem is that activeX seems to be very popular in Chinese websites.

Re:Aye, pirates be the reason IE6 just won’t (4, Informative)

yuhong (1378501) | more than 2 years ago | (#36808630)

IE9+ actually.

Re:Aye, pirates be the reason IE6 just won’t (1)

asdf7890 (1518587) | more than 2 years ago | (#36809258)

IIRC IE7 and IE8 won't run without SP2 or SP3 installed, which may pose a problem to those with pirate copies who can't be bothered to jump through the hoops to get them installed without a properly activated copy of XP (and are therefore running SP1 or "pure" XP).

Re:Aye, pirates be the reason IE6 just won’t (3, Interesting)

xnpu (963139) | more than 2 years ago | (#36808652)

Chinese websites don't support Firefox, so that's where it ends. E.g. to make payments with Alipay/Taobao you need IE specific ActiveX plugins.

(Actually they will have unofficial firefox and even linux plugins, but it's hard to find and troublesome to install.)

Re:Aye, pirates be the reason IE6 just won’t (1)

vickywill (2389314) | more than 2 years ago | (#36808704)

But couldn't they be running a somewhat modern version of Firefox? I know recent versions don't run on XP, but certainly there's something more capable than IE6 that will run on XP. IE7? IE8? Opera? Chrome? Are the Chinese really so lazy as Americans that they can't be bothered to upgrade beyond the default browser?

i like XP

Re:Aye, pirates be the reason IE6 just won’t (2)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 2 years ago | (#36808936)

Me too!

But then again, I work in IT security and make a living fighting malware, so my view might be skewed...

Re:Aye, pirates be the reason IE6 just won’t (1)

Kjella (173770) | more than 2 years ago | (#36808794)

In short, I don't think the "alternative browser" revolution ever happened in China. About 86% still use IE, the Chinese web is built for IE. They're really in a class of their own here, compare it to say India which is another country that is big and will be ridiculously huge as everybody gets online (July estimates):

IE: 33.48%
FF: 32.86%
Chrome: 29.78%

It's pretty much the same with search engines, everywhere but China Google has about 90%. In China it's 65% Baidu, 31% Google. They are on the Internet in the sense that they have an IP address but most Chinese are practically on their own net using their own tools and don't know or care what goes on in the "outside" world. Even if you call the US navel gazing, at least there's a helluva lot of foreigners that speak English and surf English-language sites that'll give you the international opinion. There's not a lot of non-Chinese that browse Chinese sites and the expat Chinese would like to visit or go back and still be on good terms with the government. Not saying it's perfect everywhere else either but it's still a fairly closed society, Internet or not.

Re:Aye, pirates be the reason IE6 just won’t (2)

Keruo (771880) | more than 2 years ago | (#36809072)

Maxthon and other popular chinese browsers happily identify themselves as IE6

Re:Aye, pirates be the reason IE6 just won’t (1)

gzipped_tar (1151931) | more than 2 years ago | (#36809392)

That's because they're built on it. Basically they're just adding their own UI or extensions to IE 6.

Re:Aye, pirates be the reason IE6 just won’t (2)

Billly Gates (198444) | more than 2 years ago | (#36808816)

Banks and most e-commerce websites require ActiveX controls thanks to export bans on encryption back in the 1990s. SSL is not preferred as it was only 64 bit until a few years ago. This was also way Apple gave up on Korea a few years back, as Macs were useless due to every site that needed SSL simply required ActiveX a decade ago and most still do today.

Requiring genuine copies of XP prevents Windows Update to upgrade these users to IE 8 which is much better than IE 6 and at least considered a modern 2009/2010 era browser. IE 8 is popular in China too but most versions of cracked XP still ship with IE 6 and are impossible to upgrade.

Re:Aye, pirates be the reason IE6 just won’t (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36808990)

Banks and most e-commerce websites require ActiveX controls thanks to export bans on encryption back in the 1990s. SSL is not preferred as it was only 64 bit until a few years ago. This was also way Apple gave up on Korea a few years back, as Macs were useless due to every site that needed SSL simply required ActiveX a decade ago and most still do today.

Requiring genuine copies of XP prevents Windows Update to upgrade these users to IE 8 which is much better than IE 6 and at least considered a modern 2009/2010 era browser. IE 8 is popular in China too but most versions of cracked XP still ship with IE 6 and are impossible to upgrade.

It is very possible to upgrade even the unlicensed versions - IE upgrade does not require validation (as most upgrades). Just let upgrades on automatic or its other settings - the upgrades will come along by themselves.
Microsoft even quietly acknowledged the fact that they let everyone do most upgrades because of fears of mass malware outbreaks.

BTW Firefox/Chrome/Opera all work on XP and later Windows versions (most work on 2000 too) - they have everything they need bundled so they dont rely on specific version system dlls. Only IE 9 is limited to post XP versions.

Re:Aye, pirates be the reason IE6 just won’t (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36808868)

What are you smoking? My windows XP has a more recent version of Firefox than my Ubuntu.

Re:Aye, pirates be the reason IE6 just won’t (2)

hairyfeet (841228) | more than 2 years ago | (#36809216)

Well as a PC repairman I can't comment on the Chinese but I CAN comment on why there is all these "WinXP Razr1911 SP2 corp edition" with no patches...WGA. The pirates KNOW how to update without getting WGA'ed. The people they sell the boxes to? So don't have a clue. So the pirates simply disable all the updates and there ya go. The user thinks their PC is getting slower because it is getting older when in reality it is getting ever increasing piles of malware.

The current record for malware on a single box at the shop was a Compaq desktop which had 2836 pieces of malware and took over an hour and a half to boot. Yeah I could have just wiped it but I wanted to see if I beat my old boss' record of 1931 bugs on a single box, which I did. It was a whitebox that had Razr1911 SP2 on it and this was last year, not a single update since SP2 was released.

So I wouldn't be surprised that the locals are getting Razr'd and are simply clicking on "The big blue E" which they believe means Internet. I actually had an argument once with a girl who wanted to know why she couldn't check her email because the machine I sold her "had the Internet in it!" and when I asked WTF she was talking about she actually thought the big blue E would magically give her the Internet without needing anything else.

As my old boss used to say "Boy you may think you've seen the dumbest computer user but trust me, every time you think the stupidity couldn't get any deeper someone will happily come and prove you wrong" and no truer words have been spoken. Expecting these folks who haven't even updated IE to know about alternative browsers? Yeah and pull this leg it plays jingle bells.

Re:Aye, pirates be the reason IE6 just won’t (1)

rdebath (884132) | more than 2 years ago | (#36808834)

Okay, you'd done your duty to the Microsoft propaganda dept.

Of course, one of the major reasons that the "Tomato OS" is so popular is Microsoft lockin. If you're using a MIcrosoft web server (like Bank of China does ... did?) you really have to use the Microsoft browser for it to work properly but that's far too expensive for the working Chinese. Add to that the fact of the political decision to force the browser into the OS 'shell', ie explorer.exe. and Microsoft have effectively bazookered their feet.

So they have a "super popular" OS bonded to a "super unpopular" web browser. Well Microsoft standard practice is to use the upgrade treadmill and force some upgrades, make the new version incompatible with the old version to force the network effect to work for you.
Problem is that doesn't work very well with pirated copies.

Still it gives the propaganda dept. a nice "poor Microsoft" sound-bite.

Re:Aye, pirates be the reason IE6 just won’t (1)

Richard_at_work (517087) | more than 2 years ago | (#36808872)

Your post sounds more like propaganda than his post...

Re:Aye, pirates be the reason IE6 just won’t (1)

rdebath (884132) | more than 2 years ago | (#36808884)

I know, I'm not very good at propaganda. But like the best propaganda everything I said is true, however, I've tried to be 'complete', ie not take anything out of context.

Re:Aye, pirates be the reason IE6 just won’t (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36808982)

I've tried to be 'complete'.

If you mean a 'complete dick', then yes, good job.

How does M$ server require M$ browser? (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 2 years ago | (#36809730)

If you're using a MIcrosoft web server (like Bank of China does ... did?) you really have to use the Microsoft browser for it to work properly

When I ran Apache HTTP Server on Windows Server 2003 inside my employer's intranet, clients running Firefox on Ubuntu had no problem accessing it. Nor have I had a problem reaching public web servers running IIS from my Ubuntu laptop. I've never used IIS in any of my own deployments, but I've been told it still runs PHP applications [iis.net]. So to what extent does any popular Microsoft web server technology require Internet Explorer?

Re:How does M$ server require M$ browser? (1)

JasterBobaMereel (1102861) | more than 2 years ago | (#36810250)

That is IIS using ActiveX extensions, which only work on IE6/7/8

This effectively stops anyone using many alternative browsers (or IE9), and many use pirated XP (SP0) simply to run IE6 to access these sites ...

You can run IIS quite easily with no alternate killing extensions, but many sites were actively encouraged to use them (everywhere in the world), in China this has not (yet) stopped and so they still have an IE6 centric Web ...

Re:Aye, pirates be the reason IE6 just won’t (1)

wvmarle (1070040) | more than 2 years ago | (#36808970)

Lots of mainland Internet users don't have access at home, but will use it in Internet cafés instead. I wouldn't be surprised if many of them are still running XP (if a computer ain't broke, don't fix it - that costs too much), with the default IE6.

Many mainlanders have connection at home or at work as well of course, yet those are used far less intensive than shared computers.

Re:Aye, pirates be the reason IE6 just won’t (4, Interesting)

hairyfeet (841228) | more than 2 years ago | (#36809146)

Funny you should mention that as Windows 7 is easier to pirate than XP ever was. In fact not only is Windows 7 easier to pirate ( the hacked version floating around doesn't even need a code, and has all versions from Starter to Ultimate on the disc) but if you look up "Tiny7 Rev 09" you'll find a version of Windows 7 that uses less memory than XP while keeping most of the bling except the see through taskbar. How the hell those guys did it I don't know, but I decided to give it a spin on an old off lease office box I was gonna have to wipe anyway. We're talking about a 1.6Ghz with 512Mb of old SDRAM and damned if the OS isn't fricking peppy!

As for TFA maybe someone in China can answer this next question: Is your banking tied to IE 6 like Korea? I know Korea has been stuck on IE 6 for awhile due to using ActiveX to get around the crypto export rules. Maybe China has the same problem?

Re:Aye, pirates be the reason IE6 just won’t (2)

xnpu (963139) | more than 2 years ago | (#36809220)

As for TFA maybe someone in China can answer this next question: Is your banking tied to IE 6 like Korea?

For most banks that matter, yes. For odd reasons the password field uses ActiveX.

Re:Aye, pirates be the reason IE6 just won’t (2)

tepples (727027) | more than 2 years ago | (#36809742)

For odd reasons the password field uses ActiveX.

Might it have something to do with historical limits on the strength of encryption that can be exported from the United States to China?

Re:Aye, pirates be the reason IE6 just won’t (1)

m50d (797211) | more than 2 years ago | (#36809420)

if you look up "Tiny7 Rev 09" you'll find a version of Windows 7 that uses less memory than XP

Compare like with like. I'll bet it uses more memory than comparable minimal repacks of windows XP, of which there are plenty.

Re:Aye, pirates be the reason IE6 just won’t (1)

petermgreen (876956) | more than 2 years ago | (#36809492)

Installing a pirate version of windows has never been hard (you could integrate the key with XP too). The problem is keeping it up to date without the risk of running into WGA and/or activation. So while machines sold with legitimate windows strongly encourage (in the first run setup) users to turn on automatic updates machines sold with pirate windows (which probablly won't bother with the first run setup) are likely to have them disabled.

Re:Aye, pirates be the reason IE6 just won’t (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36810254)

What I remember is that Maxthon was pretty popular in china - and Maxthon is (used to be?) just IE6 with a nicer UI (Tabs, mouse gestures, skins, ad-blocking, search, ...)

Seeing that most people I know that switched away from IE6 did so because of lacking support for tabs and no built-in ad-blocker (but not because of security or engine issues) there simply might never have been a good reason to switch away from Trident in China.

poor people, old hw. (3, Interesting)

gl4ss (559668) | more than 2 years ago | (#36808410)

doesn't need more explaining than that. also these stats are nothing new, the last time there was blabla confirms it browser blablychro has a blabla marketshare, the stats included these as well.

Re:poor people, old hw. (2)

satuon (1822492) | more than 2 years ago | (#36809778)

Yes, they probably just don't buy new computers and go on using the same hardware for 7-8 years. I'd be curious to see statistics about the average length of the hardware refresh cycle in China.

To make it easier on you (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36808432)

http://isie6deadyet.com/

Botnets (3, Insightful)

MasaMuneCyrus (779918) | more than 2 years ago | (#36808470)

Is it any wonder why so many botnets command zombie legions in China?

Is it also any wonder why so much high-profile hacking originates from inside China? (undoubtedly a lot of it does come from Chinese efforts, but anybody that's interested in hacking high-profile targets can just route themselves through China, too)

IE6 has 30%-40% in China? (4, Informative)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | more than 2 years ago | (#36808496)

That's kind of funny in comparison to my little corner of the US. On a gardening site I run (so non-techie) I'm currently seeing IE with a 42% market share total. This is down from 51% a year ago, and somewhere around 65% the year before that.

Re:IE6 has 30%-40% in China? (3, Insightful)

AmiMoJo (196126) | more than 2 years ago | (#36809322)

The key difference is that most computers in the west have a valid Windows license, but most computers in China have a pirate one. Pirate copies can't install later versions of IE.

Back when I used to fix PCs I noticed that a lot of Chinese students used pre-cracked install CDs which disabled automatic updates. If you keep installing new hacks you can get the updates, but for non-technical people that isn't really an option.

Re:IE6 has 30%-40% in China? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36809736)

Yes they can. I have a pirated copy of XP with a genuine legitimate IE 8. I never ever had to install new hacks to be able to continue to use automatic updates. I only have to be careful not to include the occasional WGA update.

However I hardly ever use this version of XP anymore because nowadays I can run all my favorite Windows programs through Wine on Ubuntu.

p.s. I am in the west.

Re:IE6 has 30%-40% in China? (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 2 years ago | (#36810140)

I guess the chinese haven't discovered volume-licensed versions of Windows. I got my current XP media from the last school I attended, and it's VLK'd so I never have to activate, though I do still have to deal with WGA... but that works fine.

About size... (3, Interesting)

51M02 (165179) | more than 2 years ago | (#36808574)

"...about the size of two football fields, or your average restraining order". -- Adam Savage

Why always comparing numbers to the size or anything else? In all media there is always the "it's about the size of ..." quote that always seems it does not mean anything related to the subject discussed.

I know, completely unrelated subject. I missed it by about that much.

Re:About size... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36808634)

or when they compare the energy of an earthquake to '1 million nuclear bombs'...oh well now understand, prior to that comparison i had trouble visualising it.

Re:About size... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36808786)

Uhh, did you miss it by the size of a small car, or by a Library of Congress?

Re:About size... in human hair ! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36808894)

If they do not compare it to the thickness of a human hair then it is pointless ! (As if all hair in humans had the same thickness)

hogan (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36808590)

Hogan [scarpehogan-it.net] is a brand that every women’s love. Scarpe Hogan [scarpehogan-it.net] is one most charming high-heel shoes.If a woman who are wearing Hogan Sito Ufficiale [scarpehogan-it.net] in ceremony or other important place,she must be the most nobby woman.Don’t you want to have a look and buy one?

So is toxic metal in food products. (2)

Sarusa (104047) | more than 2 years ago | (#36808614)

I'm not sure why you'd care, unless it's that there's that many zombied botnet computers in China already pwned by IE6 vulnerabilities.

Those users are useless as far as users/views go to anyone but the Chinese government and websites inside China. If Microsoft thinks they can benefit by grovelling and playing nice they'll just get their Google-chasing asses kicked harder later.

Re:So is toxic metal in food products. (2)

Robert Zenz (1680268) | more than 2 years ago | (#36808692)

I thought the same. Target all these IE6 users and you have one hell of a botnet.

Re:So is toxic metal in food products. (1)

Rich0 (548339) | more than 2 years ago | (#36810150)

Yeah, but it is a botnet on the wrong side of the Great Firewall - unless your goal is to take down some server in China. Plus, chances are the Chinese government already has half of those PCs in its own Botnets, and they might not take kindly to anybody borrowing their CPU resources. It isn't like you can send spam, since 80% of all the mail servers already block traffic from China.

Re:So is toxic metal in food products. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36809544)

I think the exact same thing each time I hear web designers whine about regarding people still using old versions of IE, ignore them, once less sites work with this junk people will drop it, until they, you're just contributing to the perpetuation of this.

Re:So is toxic metal in food products. (1)

Bert64 (520050) | more than 2 years ago | (#36809824)

Unfortunately, IE6 is big enough that if a site doesn't work with it, the site is blamed rather than the browser.

Many poor people. (1)

drolli (522659) | more than 2 years ago | (#36808654)

In countries with a lower average income, the lifetime of computers is significantly longer. And the chinese i worked with usually have an extreme habit of "never touch a running system". And they dont declare a possible virus infection to be a problem.

Re:Many poor people. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36808888)

In countries with a lower average income, the lifetime of computers is significantly longer. And the chinese i worked with usually have an extreme habit of "never touch a running system". And they dont declare a possible virus infection to be a problem.

It also means the are irrelevant to the ones most interested in the metric "browser market share" as they have almost not relevant disposable income.

Old tech - old OS - old browser (1)

Saphati (698453) | more than 2 years ago | (#36808740)

During the 4 short months I was in China, most of the computers I saw were old and running XP. It is no wonder they use IE6. Yes. I believe the statistics from having witnessed it. However, most people visit Chinese sites. Those people in China that surf to western sites and purchase western products on them most likely have better/newer computers running pirated versions of Windows 7. My conclusion is the IE6 users in China are NOT potential customers and therefore irrelevant. So I refuse to develop IE6 compatible sites.

Re:Old tech - old OS - old browser (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | more than 2 years ago | (#36808854)

That might be a mistake depending on your site. Here in North America or even Europe I would ignore IE 6 unless it is a very corporate site. Chinese do buy things online and ActiveX is required there and so are crippled computers with pirates operating systems that Windows Update can't upgrade to IE 8 easily. I know webmasters want to burn all copies of IE 6, but China is different and IE 8 can run in compatibilty mode so coding once for ActiveX and IE 6 is viable. Everyone else does it so it is standard as much as we hate it.

After all these guys can't be wrong [saveie6.com]?

Re:Old tech - old OS - old browser (1)

Saphati (698453) | more than 2 years ago | (#36809040)

That is a VERY scary website! There are far more reasons why IE6 must die: http://mashable.com/2009/07/16/ie6-must-die/ [mashable.com] http://davidwalsh.name/6-reasons-why-ie6-must-die [davidwalsh.name] http://mashable.com/2010/01/18/5-more-reasons-why-ie6-must-die/ [mashable.com] http://mashable.com/2009/07/17/ie6-must-die-twibon/ [mashable.com] Even Microsoft is trying very hard to kill IE6. Don't be selfish. Let IE6 die!

UK govmt still hugely IE6 (1)

martin (1336) | more than 2 years ago | (#36808780)

Still using alot of IE6 even pre SP1 so SSL v2 doesn't work and they are wanting to use more and more 'cloud' solutions in their IT strategy #fail

Re:UK govmt still hugely IE6 (1)

Lennie (16154) | more than 2 years ago | (#36809008)

You probably mean something else, because SSL v2 is much older and very insecure:

'version 2.0 was released in February 1995 but "contained a number of security flaws which ultimately led to the design of SSL version 3.0"'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_Layer_Security [wikipedia.org]

Re:UK govmt still hugely IE6 (1)

martin (1336) | more than 2 years ago | (#36809564)

yup I meant SSL V3 - thanks for the correction.

Still horrendous that many of the UK gvmt are still on IE6, usually as they have so many stupid apps written that break if up don't use IE6. yes IE7 or 8 break the apps as well cos the devs used so many IE6 specifics.

Re:UK govmt still hugely IE6 (1)

Rich0 (548339) | more than 2 years ago | (#36810188)

Yup, my workplace is IE6. Didn't really cause problems until maybe a year ago when they started rolling out very Javascript-heavy websites all over the place. So, I use Chrome as much as I can (doesn't cause conflicts and navigates everything quickly), and then when I get to a URL that won't work without ActiveX I copy/paste it into IE6 and go take a bathroom break while the page loads. In IE6 the workflow is more like click link, go grab a cup of water, click link, go type up a document, click link, and so on...

This is why 2014 won't kill XP (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36808782)

XP may be officially "unsupported" in 2014, but China, and corporate users in other countries will keep it going for decades to come. Too bad Ubuntu/Gnome didn't "get the hint" and create a usable interface like XP instead of Unity/Gnome-Shell or they could of got some of the market share. IE6/XP is this centuries' COBOL.

  North Korea even still uses Windows 95.

Re:This is why 2014 won't kill XP (1)

Kjella (173770) | more than 2 years ago | (#36808866)

XP may be officially "unsupported" in 2014, but China, and corporate users in other countries will keep it going for decades to come. Too bad Ubuntu/Gnome didn't "get the hint" and create a usable interface like XP instead of Unity/Gnome-Shell or they could of got some of the market share. IE6/XP is this centuries' COBOL.

Those who subscribe to the "it works, don't change it" mantra won't ever change unless they absolutely have to. And if they do have to change, they choose the smallest possible change which would be a Windows upgrade. The massively conservative won't switch until almost everybody else does, it's pointless to look to them for early adopters.

Re:This is why 2014 won't kill XP (2)

Billly Gates (198444) | more than 2 years ago | (#36808984)

"The massively conservative won't switch until almost everybody else does, it's pointless to look to them for early adopters.

"

The issue is the massively conservative are becoming the new moderate majority. I am quite shocked to read all the pro Windows XP posts here on slashdot. Slashdot users are the ones who *should* welcome change more and experiment before the average users. If half the users here prefer Firefox 3.6 and Windows XP then these tech giants and I.T. consultants are in trouble.

If I had a time machine back in 2001, and told everyone that the majority of slashdot users and the world perfer 10 year old operating systems in the future people would laugh. It is the equilivent of turning down Windows XP for Windows 3.0 when it was new. That would have been ludcrious. Today, this is common sense and mainstream. Is it the recession?

Get with the program and stop whining if newer versions of your apps or your kinetic thingie or IE 9 wont run on a decade old platform. It is kike whining that MS Office 2000 wont run on Dos or Windows 3.0.

China is a much poorer country and I understand this. However it near impossible for any modern browser to get above a 4 or 6% marketshare as web developers live a a decade in the past and so do its citizens. This is plain silly.

Re:This is why 2014 won't kill XP (1)

petermgreen (876956) | more than 2 years ago | (#36809608)

It is the equilivent of turning down Windows XP for Windows 3.0 when it was new. That would have been ludcrious. Today, this is common sense and mainstream. Is it the recession?

No IMO it's a sign of maturity.

In the decade leading up to 2K we got plug and play (which made it much easier for users to add hardware), USB (which relied on plug and play), a proper kernel (with premptive multitasking memory protection and security), the taskbar which made it easy to see what was running and switch between them. 2K was where all these important features came together in a single release. XP was a minor update to 2K which added a crippled version for home users and a few other bits and peices.

While yes there have been improvements since then there aren't any that I see as being anywhere near as fundamentaly important to the user experiance as those mentioned above. Further due to the long delay and then flop of vista many of the new features that did come out in the decade after it's release got backported.

Non-Techies on slow connections (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36808812)

Many of the non-technical people who are still on dialup connections(which is still a lot of people), don't want to spend an hour downloading something that isn't broken. My parents don't update Firefox(or any other software) very often, because it takes a long time to over a 24kbps connection to get the updates and while that is going on, their single phone line is tied up.

China uses the Maxthon browser (4, Insightful)

Hermanas (1665329) | more than 2 years ago | (#36808870)

Just a thought, but isn't this because China mainly uses the Maxthon browser, which uses IE6 as its engine (or at least used to, for a looong time)? They built a browser on top of IE6 that has tabs and other modern things, so the user experience isn't as completely shit as plain old IE6.

Re:China uses the Maxthon browser (1)

pandronic (1275276) | more than 2 years ago | (#36809080)

I believe Maxthon uses whatever version of Trident (IE's engine) is installed. Later versions also have an alternate Webkit-based engine.

Re:China uses the Maxthon browser (1)

xnpu (963139) | more than 2 years ago | (#36809236)

Just because some Chinese uses Maxthon, doesn't mean they all do. In fact I've never seen anyone use it in the offices I've visited. Foxmail is huge, but Maxthon? Don't think so.

Re:China uses the Maxthon browser (1)

Hermanas (1665329) | more than 2 years ago | (#36809308)

Well, Maxthon claims to have had 500,000,000 downloads [maxthon.com] by 2010. Sounds about right, don't you think? I don't have anecdotal evidence to back my claim, but I asked because I remember reading that Maxthon is one of the biggest browsers in China a few years back, and I know it is/was based on IE6.

Re:China uses the Maxthon browser (1)

RobertinXinyang (1001181) | more than 2 years ago | (#36809346)

I have lived in P.R. China since 2006 and I do not recall ever coming across this browser on anyone's machines or in any internet cafes. I am not saying that no one uses it. However, the only browser I ever see anyone using is the Chinese language version of IE.

Why is that bad? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36808900)

IE 6 is the best browser ever built! [saveie6.com] Maybe if more of us signed the petition to save IE 6 and have W3C change it's standards to mimick IE 6 then all the web developers could live in absolute paradise.

Will delay their move to IPv6 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36808954)

I thought that China was the one complaining the most about IPv4 exhaustion, and thereby putting extra efforts in accelerating IPv6 introduction. But if they're going to stick to IE6, that's just going to defeat that objective, since IE6 is the one major browser left that doesn't support the new protocol.

What's w/ them? Since they pirate most of their software anyway, why can't they just pirate Windows 7 or Lion and just keep going? It's not like it'll be costing them money. But they'll get all the IPv6 addresses they need - APNIC doesn't have any more IPv4 addresses to give them.

Re:Will delay their move to IPv6 (1)

petermgreen (876956) | more than 2 years ago | (#36809636)

since IE6 is the one major browser left that doesn't support the new protocol.

MS claims otherwise
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2007/02/20/ipv6-uris-in-ie7.aspx [msdn.com]
"Additionally, I should mention that although support for IPv6 URIs is new to IE7 and not available in IE6, IE6 does support DNS names backed by IPv6 addresses."

APNIC doesn't have any more IPv4 addresses to give them.

Web browsing isn't really a concern since it gets along fine with NAT. The applications that need to be concerned about IPv4 exhaustion are those that rely on accepting incoming connections from the internet on domestic connections (primerally P2P networks).

Hurray for the Marketers! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36809212)

Finally, Chrome and Firefox can jump in numbers by ignoring just one country!

What internet (1)

wesleyjconnor (1955870) | more than 2 years ago | (#36809284)

are they viewing? Do any sites still support IE6?

Re:What internet (1)

sunderland56 (621843) | more than 2 years ago | (#36809602)

are they viewing? Do any sites still support IE6?

T-Mobile's, for one. You cannot pay your T-Mobile bill online with Firefox, so I need to fire up the XP/IE6 partition once a month.

Re:What internet (1)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 2 years ago | (#36809970)

do you click on the "feedback button" and tell them every month that their website is broken because it does not work with Firefox or Chrome. If you don't they assume you absolutely love that it only works with IE...

They have IE6 because of Windows 2000 (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36809298)

China has a lot of people using IE6 because they are using Windows 2000 which does not have activation. However, Windows XP, Vista, and 7 do require activation.

Re:They have IE6 because of Windows 2000 (1)

Lennie (16154) | more than 2 years ago | (#36809354)

I thought it was mostly Windows XP without some SP's with also do not support activation and thus have no IE7 or IE8.

IE6 does support IPv6, if you install IPv6 in Windows XP.

I've atleast see it send AAAA DNS -queries.

Re:They have IE6 because of Windows 2000 (2)

petermgreen (876956) | more than 2 years ago | (#36809672)

I thought it was mostly Windows XP without some SP's with also do not support activation and thus have no IE7 or IE8.

Retail and system builder (small OEM) copies of XP require activation

volume license versions of XP don't require activation

Big brand OEM versions of XP don't require activation if appropriate BIOS keys are present but will demand activation if those BIOS keys are not present.

All of the above applies regardless of service pack. What did change in XP's lifecycle was that MS introduced key blacklisting and WGA to try and root out those that were using volume license versions with leaked or generated keys. The easiest way for a pirate to minimise the risk that their customers run afoul of this stuff is to disable automatic updates.

The IE market share in the PRC won't last (1)

FrankNFurter (89904) | more than 2 years ago | (#36809314)

because Baidu [pcworld.com], the most popular search engine over there, is working on a browser of its own [baidu.com] which guessing by the screenshots is based on Chrom{-e, -ium}.

Re:The IE market share in the PRC won't last (1)

Rich0 (548339) | more than 2 years ago | (#36810274)

Hmm, the Google Translate of that website has the first feature described as:

Baidu powerful platform integrating the use of force, as you integrate thousands of popular applications, give you a key touch of the Chaokuaigan experience.

The third is described as:

Safe Browsing mode combines sandbox technology and the advantages of protected mode IE will completely isolate your horse with the virus, but also your "Internet sterile environment."

Well, I guess integrated use of force and a sterile Internet environment are definitely well in keeping with modern China.

(And yes, I realize these are almost certainly butchered translations...

GODS 98SE/XP SHELL (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36809522)

shell="explorer.exe"
meet
shell="c:\bin\mc.exe

I hear some porkified 69+- year old retired sheriff John FanBoi Mac Genius of folsum KaliFornia yelling about Marijuana Growers
I don't like this cop, so I make a snide remark back, about comprehensive annual financial reports, the domestic terrorist banksters, tsa groping, dhs, gulf of mexico disaster/biowar, fukushima fallout, AND THE STATE OF OUR PEOPLE BECAUSE OF THE STATE OF AMERICA in relation to this SHIT
every day it's the same shit, gays, guns, marijuana raids, democrats, republicans, fucking this fucking that, bad advice, hopless news, retarded corrupt fuckwads who need to be in a cage, but sherrif fanboi always makes it like it's teh people's fault, they don't propose any fucking solutions, just every day more side story crap, KFBK sucks, the whole thing is fucking depressing, every day it's the Crime show, give me a break, get the fuck off the radio and go arrest some corrupt government motherfuckers John Boi. U Fat fucking piece of Fed Cow-Towing BullShit."

and this is why... (1)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 2 years ago | (#36809938)

All the damned Security digital video recorders still use fricking Active X for their web control. Every single one of those things are complete crap because that are all China made and they don't put any effort into making the interface work with any browser.

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