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Linux 3.0 Release Delayed

timothy posted about 3 years ago | from the wait-for-it-wait-for-it dept.

Bug 187

JustinRLynn writes "A recent Google+ Post by Linus Torvalds indicates that version 3.0 of the Linux kernel will have to wait due to the discovery of a 'subtle pathname lookup bug.' Linus indicates, 'We have a patch, we understand the problem, and it looks ObviouslyCorrect(tm), but I don't think I want to release 3.0 just a couple of hours after applying it.'"

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Chicken? (2, Funny)

oldhack (1037484) | about 3 years ago | (#36807414)

Release it now, you fool!

Re:Chicken? (3, Funny)

X0563511 (793323) | about 3 years ago | (#36807428)

Project Manager: Did it build?
Developer: Yea, but we haven't even run the thing yet
Project Manager: Ship it!

Re:Chicken? (3, Funny)

NoNonAlphaCharsHere (2201864) | about 3 years ago | (#36807494)

Your project managers make you get a completely clean build before you ship? How do you guys stay on schedule?

Re:Chicken? (4, Funny)

arth1 (260657) | about 3 years ago | (#36807828)

Your project managers make you get a completely clean build before you ship? How do you guys stay on schedule?

Simple enough, Firefox style: Any time you get a semi-clean build, you tag it. When you release, you simply bump the version number of the last tagged build. So what if you don't get half the features - it's a new version, as witnessed by the version number!

Re:Chicken? (1)

topham (32406) | about 3 years ago | (#36808110)

And with the new policy they increment the major version number every time they hit 'Build'.

Re:Chicken? (1)

IB4Student (1885914) | about 3 years ago | (#36808262)

Are you suggesting that the consumers should have to wait until, say, 10 total new features are complete before they can use the 4 new features that are already finished?

Re:Chicken? (1)

Tubal-Cain (1289912) | about 3 years ago | (#36808456)

No, but 0.x increments are perfectly reasonable. If they use only single-digit increments before rolling over the major release number; they'd average a major version number every two years (six to sixteen weeks between releases, right?)

Major/minor versions (1)

hlavac (914630) | about 3 years ago | (#36809194)

I thought major version increments were for major, incompatible changes, while minor versions were for smaller, compatible ones?
I know, that was beofre marketing took over...

Re:Chicken? (1)

shentino (1139071) | about 3 years ago | (#36808276)

I for one am glad a geek IS the project manager.

More focused on getting it right than meeting deadlines.

Re:Chicken? (3, Funny)

Canberra Bob (763479) | about 3 years ago | (#36808640)

I for one am glad a geek IS the project manager.

More focused on getting it right than meeting deadlines.

That would explain why GNU/Hurd is such an excellent OS

Re:Chicken? (2)

shentino (1139071) | about 3 years ago | (#36808676)

RMS isn't a geek. He's a fanatic.

Re:Chicken? (1)

1s44c (552956) | about 3 years ago | (#36808428)

Project Manager: Did it build?
Developer: Yea, but we haven't even run the thing yet
Project Manager: Ship it!

There doesn't seem to be a mod for '+1 sad but true'.

Re:Chicken? (0)

shutdown -p now (807394) | about 3 years ago | (#36808720)

That's some bad release practice.

In a good Agile team, there's a build server churning out builds as developers work. So manager does not need to bother them with questions like that - he just ships the most recent rolling build with a few clicks when he feels like it. Agile is all about cutting the red tape! ~

Re:Chicken? (2)

leenks (906881) | about 3 years ago | (#36808922)

In a decent engineering environment, regardless of it being "agile" or not, I would hope that the decision was made to formally release to customers, and a branch was created for that release. After a short period of stabilisation (removal of critical bugs, but no more features) the most recent build from that branch can be released, while feature development has continued on master/trunk. All of those bug fixes can be merged back into master for mainline development.

Sure, you might provide canary/integration/every-stable-build-of-master-from-the-CI-system releases to stakeholders so they can track development and give feedback, but your releases need to be managed. How else are you ever going to support that release after your customers have got hold of it - ie supply bugfixes for it without forcing them to upgrade to a newer release that might contain masses of new features, bugs, and incompatible changes?

Path names? Bah. (5, Funny)

MrEricSir (398214) | about 3 years ago | (#36807434)

I say push it live, let those damn n00bs grow some chest hair by referencing all their files by inode id.

Re:Path names? Bah. (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36807462)

Fuck you: a gang of inode ids killed my father.

Re:Path names? Bah. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36807664)

Those inode ids also killed my slashdot user id. I suppose they got yours too?

Re:Path names? Bah. (2)

NoNonAlphaCharsHere (2201864) | about 3 years ago | (#36807732)

You too? I had a special character in my nick, and my old account has been broken for several months. Hence, the new name.

Re:Path names? Bah. (1)

SQL Error (16383) | about 3 years ago | (#36808348)

Guess what happened when I first tried to register?

Re:Path names? Bah. (5, Funny)

aynoknman (1071612) | about 3 years ago | (#36807806)

My name is Inode Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.

Re:Path names? Bah. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36808128)

There are not enough mod points in this universe to properly assess the value of the parent.

Re:Path names? Bah. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36808392)

We have a winner. We can close Slashdot for the week.

Re:Path names? Bah. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36809170)

I'm moving the harddrive needle lefthanded, but I'm not lefthanded...

Re:Path names? Bah. (3, Funny)

rubycodez (864176) | about 3 years ago | (#36808172)

inode id: no Luke, *I* am your father!

Re:Path names? Bah. (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36807510)

This is GNU/Linux we are talking about right? So people actually wait for bugs to be fixed before pushing a release forward? That's news to me.

Re:Path names? Bah. (4, Informative)

NotBorg (829820) | about 3 years ago | (#36807620)

No. The topic is actually just Linux. Also, it's not uncommon for Linus to hold off on a release if things aren't "quiet" enough.

Re:Path names? Bah. (1)

GigaHurtsMyRobot (1143329) | about 3 years ago | (#36807890)

I *hate* loud releases.

Re:Path names? Bah. (2)

NoNonAlphaCharsHere (2201864) | about 3 years ago | (#36807914)

I hate the silent ones. Especially in elevators.

Re:Path names? Bah. (1)

NotBorg (829820) | about 3 years ago | (#36808168)

I'm indifferent to the audibility of an elevator release. A loud one might make it obvious who did it but you certainly won't escape it.

Re:Path names? Bah. (5, Funny)

dudpixel (1429789) | about 3 years ago | (#36807570)

here's hoping said n00bs aren't female...

Perhaps today IS a good day to die (2)

RogueWarrior65 (678876) | about 3 years ago | (#36807478)

LET'S SHIP IT!!!

Re:Perhaps today IS a good day to die (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36807568)

hoka hey, but I would agree with Linus that it could wait another day, look at HURD, people waited years

hoka hey tomorrow

Re:Perhaps today IS a good day to die (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36807810)

WE'LL DO IT LIVE

Weeks to reproduce in testing? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36807480)

Then it will be encountered many times each day.

A bug like that should never be knowingly unleashed.

No problem. (5, Funny)

loxosceles (580563) | about 3 years ago | (#36807542)

No problem. I'll just run GNU Hurd.

Re:No problem. (0)

renegadesx (977007) | about 3 years ago | (#36807854)

There are only 2 people in the world who run Hurd, RMS & the slashdot user formally known as 'twitter' (before the social networking site took off)

Re:No problem. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36809078)

There are only 2 people in the world who run Hurd, RMS & the slashdot user formally known as 'twitter' (before the social networking site took off)

And Jesus.

Clearly there can be only one conclusion (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36807546)

And that conclusion is that Linux is ruined forever unless they skip version 3.0 and skip to version 9.9! Full speed ahead Mr. Sulu!

HOW DARE THEY (4, Funny)

DWMorse (1816016) | about 3 years ago | (#36807622)

The shareholders will demand an answer for th ... wait.

Google+ is still in testing too (3, Insightful)

cervesaebraciator (2352888) | about 3 years ago | (#36807632)

Waiting for someone to take this as Linus Torvalds' recommendation of Google+...

Re:Google+ is still in testing too (2)

jampola (1994582) | about 3 years ago | (#36807748)

Okay, that's the last time I will reply to anyone semi-famous in G+ where they are sure to have about 100 replies thereafter! Especially since G+ decides it wants to subscribe my email to the thread and email me each reply! Seriously, what the fuck is with that??!!

Re:Google+ is still in testing too (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36808004)

Okay, that's the last time I will reply to anyone semi-famous in G+ where they are sure to have about 100 replies thereafter! Especially since G+ decides it wants to subscribe my email to the thread and email me each reply! Seriously, what the fuck is with that??!!

Down arrow on the top right of the post. Therein you'll find "Mute this post".

Good on ya for getting angry over nothing. :)

Re:Google+ is still in testing too (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36808034)

I think that just mutes it on the website. Haven't tried, though.

However, there *is* a "Mute updates to this post" link on the bottom of *every* e-mail update sent from Google+. I guess the GP just can't read.

Re:Google+ is still in testing too (1)

devphaeton (695736) | about 3 years ago | (#36808050)

Not a Google+ member, so I might be off a bit. However, in regards to manually opting out of email updates... should the GP have to?

Re:Google+ is still in testing too (1)

TarMil (1623915) | about 3 years ago | (#36808446)

You can of course disable them altogether in your account parameters.

Re:Google+ is still in testing too (3, Informative)

Tubal-Cain (1289912) | about 3 years ago | (#36808546)

He opted in by commenting on the post. Keeping everyone that is a part of a discussion "in the loop" is consistent with the purpose of social networking.

It isn't Google's fault that jampola chose to reply to a post which received a high signal-to-noise ratio.

Re:Google+ is still in testing too (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36809122)

Google+

Is this that Wave thing they tried? I have no idea what Google+ is, nor do I care.

For the benefit of future historians and researchers, the non-vocal minority are as annoyed now with these 12 month social network fads as you will be. Anything pertaining to this issue should be in the lkml archives.

An M$ Bug? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36807636)

Recent postings have shown that an employee at Microsoft is the highest contributor to the 3.0 Kernel.

Ergo, are Billie G. and Stevie B. paying their "Bug" Butt loads of $$$$ to poison the 3.0 Kernel.

Ifsofacto.

--//
PS. Will the "Bug" please stand up ... and take a "slug". Sharpshooters ... ready.

Re:An M$ Bug? (0)

renegadesx (977007) | about 3 years ago | (#36807834)

It was the 7th highest organisation (Intel & Red Hat contributed more than double each) and most of those contributions revolved around Hyper V and making sure Linux works on Hyper V as well as on VMWare as that is the market they are targeting in their virtualisation space.

If it's a patch applied to 3.0 (0)

makubesu (1910402) | about 3 years ago | (#36807638)

does this make this release actually 4.0?

Re:If it's a patch applied to 3.0 (4, Funny)

adamstew (909658) | about 3 years ago | (#36807674)

No, only firefox does that.

Re:If it's a patch applied to 3.0 (-1, Flamebait)

renegadesx (977007) | about 3 years ago | (#36807760)

You must be thinking of Windows, after all a bunch of bugs applied to Windows Vista (Windows NT 6.0) and you have Windows 7

Re:If it's a patch applied to 3.0 (1)

ATMAvatar (648864) | about 3 years ago | (#36808084)

What confuses the hell out of me is that the official kernel version is still 6.x :(

Re:If it's a patch applied to 3.0 (5, Funny)

GNUALMAFUERTE (697061) | about 3 years ago | (#36807808)

You are confused. This is the Kernel, not Firefox.

BTW: I heard the guys at Mozilla are working on a new feature: The ability to change the version number while the browser is running. That's real progress.

Re:If it's a patch applied to 3.0 (5, Funny)

renegadesx (977007) | about 3 years ago | (#36807924)

Yes but that feature has been delayed until the release of Firefox 7, so you will have to wait a week.

Re:If it's a patch applied to 3.0 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36807980)

I thought FF 7 was due out tomorrow! Check that, it's after midnight here so that's today!

Re:If it's a patch applied to 3.0 (1)

TarMil (1623915) | about 3 years ago | (#36808460)

FF7 has been out since 1997. Also, Aerith dies.

Re:If it's a patch applied to 3.0 (1)

dakameleon (1126377) | about 3 years ago | (#36808294)

Doesn't Google already have a patent on that for Chrome?

Re:If it's a patch applied to 3.0 (2)

shutdown -p now (807394) | about 3 years ago | (#36808746)

BTW: I heard the guys at Mozilla are working on a new feature: The ability to change the version number while the browser is running. That's real progress.

That is true. They still do require you to restart the browser after that happens, however, so that extensions would properly stop working as they should.

But wait, what is this OS i'm using now? (1)

smoothnorman (1670542) | about 3 years ago | (#36807668)

uname -ar > Linux trampel 3.0.0-rc7 ... but how is this possible? for i'm just a normal geek..?

Re:But wait, what is this OS i'm using now? (0)

jampola (1994582) | about 3 years ago | (#36807720)

Really??? *slaps forehead*

Re:But wait, what is this OS i'm using now? (2)

besalope (1186101) | about 3 years ago | (#36807772)

You have a release candidate. The official launch of RTM has been delayed.

Google Plus (5, Funny)

Wizarth (785742) | about 3 years ago | (#36807676)

I think the more important news here is - Linus uses Google+ for announcements now?

Facebook really is in trouble now.

Hollywood celebrities and such forth... (2)

wyoung76 (764124) | about 3 years ago | (#36807820)

... all moving to G+ and posting there instead will be the death of Facebook, but not a moment before

Re:Hollywood celebrities and such forth... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36808192)

Makes sense though.. it's like Twitter, except you can actually post something long enough to be worth reading ;)

Re:Google Plus (1)

pinkushun (1467193) | about 3 years ago | (#36808394)

It may as well go sit and cry in the dark corner with Myspace

Re:Google Plus (2)

shutdown -p now (807394) | about 3 years ago | (#36808756)

Google should really start advertising G+ as "Facebook, but with people you actually care about".

GNU/gle+ (0, Flamebait)

larry bagina (561269) | about 3 years ago | (#36807688)

What good is a FREE operating system if use it to blog on a proprietary social network?

Re:GNU/gle+ (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36807782)

Google's servers run on Linux.

Re:GNU/gle+ (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36807832)

Who gives a flying fuck, honestly? Just go back to eating tofu and saving whales, please?

Re:GNU/gle+ (0, Offtopic)

renegadesx (977007) | about 3 years ago | (#36807896)

Ummm, Google uses Linux servers (Red Hat with Ubuntu desktops last time I checked). Not happy you dont have ssh access to the boxes? Setup your own web server, its not rocket science.

Re:GNU/gle+ (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36808040)

OSS wouldn't work too well for a centralized social network in which you need 50,000+ servers to keep running. Who else but Facebook or Amazon has that sort of infrastructure?

Fair Enough (2, Insightful)

jampola (1994582) | about 3 years ago | (#36807712)

Reasons like " I don't think I want to release 3.0 just a couple of hours after applying it" would never fly in a commercial environment. This is why I love Linux and pretty much anything open source. I know it's cliche but whaddyagunnado?

Re:Fair Enough (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36807812)

I don't know what commercial environment you've been in, but in the places I've worked, release becomes hell because you have your bug list and someone (read a commitee) has gone through and labeled the "show stoppers" which are bugs deemed important enough to be fixed before the software can be released, and because of politics in the commitee, all but the most trivial become show stoppers. Upon fixing the last show stopper, the software then needs to go through regression at a minimum, and usually a complete test suite before it's allowed to be released. And even then, that goes into system integration, where the whole process starts again.

Re:Fair Enough (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36808030)

This. jampola is obviously a child or a cowboy.

Re:Fair Enough (4, Insightful)

ATMAvatar (648864) | about 3 years ago | (#36808120)

That depends on the balance of power in the organization. If sales/marketing have the bigger share of the power, QA is downsized or eliminated and the only "show stoppers" are unchecked feature boxes.

Re:Fair Enough (1)

tokul (682258) | about 3 years ago | (#36808016)

Commercials don't keep their software repository open to public. If you fsckup in OSS world, everyone can prove it. If shit happens in com world, they have PR department for that.

WILL ANYONE NOTICE ?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36807878)

I think not !!

It's soooo fucking funny that this thing is a "3.0" (eeeh, wow?) and no one gives a shit if it ever gets out from wherever those things come !!

What was the bug? (1)

Theovon (109752) | about 3 years ago | (#36807986)

Anyone want to post some links/info on what the bug actually was?

Re:What was the bug? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36808136)

Who cares? The bug is squished. I only care about the ones that aren't fixed in releases. At any rate one could just scan the subject lines of recent messages to the Linux Kernel Mailing List (https://lkml.org/). If the bug doesn't pop out at you and say "it's me, it's me" you likely won't understand the bug anyway.

Here's what the bug was! (4, Informative)

Theovon (109752) | about 3 years ago | (#36808006)

Sadly, I don't understand the explanation or what the patch changes.

https://lkml.org/lkml/2011/7/17/103

Re:Here's what the bug was! (5, Informative)

FlyingGuy (989135) | about 3 years ago | (#36808312)

Ok, from my reading of the patch which could be WAY the fuck wrong BTW, I think it is a race condition between the unlinking of a file and returning the inode to the pool AND the CP command ( copy a file ) traversing the inode list. In other words the CP command was trying to stat a file that was partially unlinked do to the update of the node list still being in progress.

If you still don't understand that don't feel bad, I had to read and re-read the note like 10 times before I probably got this explanation wrong.

Re:Here's what the bug was! (1)

rdebath (884132) | about 3 years ago | (#36808958)

And I think you're wrong, there's no "rm" involved.

The removal is that the file details are being cleared from the memory cache and the cp is only looking in the cache for something it knew was there but hasn't locked yet. Because it wasn't locked another thread though it was a good candidate to be removed from the cache. The cp then assumed it was gone because something physically deleted it.

Re:Here's what the bug was! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36808688)

RCU - happens on multiple cores. Under memory pressure an entry may be dropped from the dentry cache at the moment somebody is trying to look up the file, making it look like the file just vanished.

Good. (1)

antdude (79039) | about 3 years ago | (#36808008)

Don't rush. Get those nasty bugs squished. :)

Here's what the bug was! (5, Informative)

FrootLoops (1817694) | about 3 years ago | (#36808066)

https://lkml.org/lkml/2011/7/17/103 [lkml.org]

[Posted by Theovon earlier, but I prefer a clickable link.]

Re:Here's what the bug was! (2)

jez9999 (618189) | about 3 years ago | (#36809050)

The solution to this is really Obviously Correct; I don't know why they didn't post the bug in the summary:

That -ENOENT in walk_component: isn't it assuming we found a negative
dentry, before reaching the read_seqcount_retry which complete_walk
(or nameidata_drop_rcu_last before 3.0) would use to confirm a successful
lookup? And can't memory pressure prune a dentry, coming to dentry_kill
which __d_drops to unhash before dentry_iput resets d_inode to NULL, but
the dentry_rcuwalk_barrier between those is ineffective if the other end
ignores the seqcount?

The emperor isn't wearing any clothes (1, Flamebait)

lucm (889690) | about 3 years ago | (#36808142)

I bet this mysterious bug is actually caused by a build script trying to pry source code from the bottomless pit of horror that is Git. One could qualify that as an "incredibly subtle pathname lookup bug"...

For everything besides committing, Git is horrible. This thing is actually making SourceSafe looks trusty and convenient.

Now that the world is running on Linux (except for MySpace and GoDaddy) it is a crime to impede its evolution by using such a painful system. Down with Git, and long live Anything Else.

Re:The emperor isn't wearing any clothes (1)

FlyingGuy (989135) | about 3 years ago | (#36808290)

That's IT! You are off Linus's Christmas list for sure buddy!

Re:The emperor isn't wearing any clothes (2)

macshit (157376) | about 3 years ago | (#36808380)

It can take time for some people to get used to git ("wait the commands aren't exactly the same as CVS!? noooooooooo...").

But once it clicks, you'll never want to go back.

There's a good reason git is by far the most popular "new generation" source-control system (and no, it's not "because Linus is popular"). It's simply more powerful, more facile, more nimble than the competition.

Re:The emperor isn't wearing any clothes (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36808994)

It can take time for some people to get used to git

as a CVS n00b, I understood how it worked easily.. the repo is there and these are my files and I can see what the difference is and commit my changes. Several years later and I'm still struggling to understand how git works. I have contributed to several projects requiring "git format patches" rather than just a diff and to be honest I worked out how to clone the repo, then apply my diff and generate those "git format patches" but then I have to delete the repo and clone it again because pulling back the changes from upstream generally leaves me with a pile of shit and incomprehensible errors.

and no, it's not "because Linus is popular"

but that of course was a large part of it

Its not that CVS is great, everybody can see that it has limitations, but git is incomprehensible and whats more use of it has the tendency to turn mailing lists into patch dumping grounds, and developers into patch shepherds. This might be great for Linus' own project but there must be something better

Re:The emperor isn't wearing any clothes (3, Insightful)

Serious Callers Only (1022605) | about 3 years ago | (#36808762)

For everything besides committing, Git is horrible

It would be nice to know what you had a problem with. People here could perhaps enlighten you as to why things aren't working out for you, or you could enlighten them as to why git is inferior. It has its flaws (chiefly obscure error messages), but I've found it a better fit than cvs and svn.

System is stable enough (1)

pinkushun (1467193) | about 3 years ago | (#36808412)

... to wait until then! XD

Woah! m$ could slip in *anything* in those 2 hours (1)

phonewebcam (446772) | about 3 years ago | (#36808490)

Look what they did to Nokia. m$ watchers knew a leopard can't change its spots, and it was all flowers and roses at the start...

breaking software (1)

goarilla (908067) | about 3 years ago | (#36808632)

I'm wondering how much stuff will break that checks for a 2.x kernel.

Re:breaking software (1)

geckipede (1261408) | about 3 years ago | (#36808892)

Everything. Literally everything.

All webserver and database software will go, then so will email, then windows software will start breaking. Every human on Earth will go mad, then the planet will descend into the sun, and finally the laws of physics themselves will become unstable and the universe will start generating paradoxes and fail utterly.

Re:breaking software (1)

goarilla (908067) | about 3 years ago | (#36809184)

Undoubtedly this will get lots of replies how Windows software is already utterly broken.

Re:breaking software (1)

sunr2007 (2309530) | about 3 years ago | (#36809302)

Undoubtedly this will get lots of replies how Windows software is already utterly broken.

Not really. Everybody knows how broken windows is ! . "To Each his Own!

Linux is stuck in the 90s (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36809252)

Man... Linux is only still at version 2 moving to 3! It must be garbage! I prefer to use programs that are at least at version 10 or higher. Have fun using your immature software!

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