Beta

×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Hillary Clinton Takes Data.gov Overseas

CmdrTaco posted about 3 years ago | from the i-see-what-you-did-there dept.

Businesses 250

theodp writes "ZDNet reports that Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's office issued a fact sheet during her visit to India confirming that the U.S. and India will be working together to develop an open source version of the Data.gov project, which was launched in 2009 by off-to-Harvard Federal CIO Vivek Kundra to serve as a central repository of data collected by the US government. The Hindu Business Line notes that Clinton was also pressed to exempt Indian techies in the States on H-1B or L1 visas from U.S. social security taxes, an exemption that, if granted, could reportedly result in savings of at least a billion dollars for the country's software industry."

cancel ×

250 comments

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

!outsourcing (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36822704)

This is not about outsourcing though.

Re:!outsourcing (1)

TheDarkNose (1613701) | about 3 years ago | (#36822722)

I guess it's a good thing that that isn't one of its labels then!

Who taught them how to negotiate? (4, Insightful)

MikeRT (947531) | about 3 years ago | (#36822728)

The Hindu Business Line notes that Clinton was also pressed to exempt Indian techies in the States on H-1B or L1 visas from US social security taxes, an exemption that, if granted, could reportedly result in savings of at least a billion dollars for the country's software industry."

An exemption that would also cause an even more vitriolic backlash from American workers who would become even more expensive relative to Indian H1B and L1 holders because of a tax that only the Amish and a few others can avoid (for now).

They'd have a case here if American developers could legally bow out of FICA. I'd take that deal without hesitation. I know a lot of developers who'd love to step outside that system and have the money for their 401ks and FSA/HSA instead.

Re:Who taught them how to negotiate? (4, Funny)

elrous0 (869638) | about 3 years ago | (#36822838)

She's a Democrat. Democratic negotiating skills can best be described with the analogy of the poker player who starts the game by showing everyone all his cards--then tries to bluff.

Re:Who taught them how to negotiate? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36822892)

It's so fulfilling to see the people I judge fulfill those judgments, regularly.

Re:Who taught them how to negotiate? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36822908)

I suggest instead H1B are required to pay pension plans that they can only collect benefits if they retire while still in the US. Else they lose the benefits.

Re:Who taught them how to negotiate? (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36822956)

This sounds like a great idea. We could call this system "Social Security."

Re:Who taught them how to negotiate? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36822988)

Pretty sure anyone can actually "bow out", but there is no going back. I know one person that has done this. I won't, it is too cheap of insurance for my wife and kids.

Re:Who taught them how to negotiate? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36823152)

"Cheap" "Insurance" that is about to go insolvent.

Pray tell, how does one opt-out of this ponzi scheme?

Re:Who taught them how to negotiate? (1)

Baloroth (2370816) | about 3 years ago | (#36823302)

On doing a little research, it looks like you can basically only bow out for religious reasons. According to the IRS form (PDF warning: here [irs.gov] ) you must be a member of a religious organization that objects conscientiously to public or private insurance or welfare. There also a few exemptions for students working on dissertations or nonresident aliens working in a few select jobs (according to this [ehow.com] ). But, no, not just anyone can back out, unless they hid the method for doing so really well.

And no, Pastafarianism wouldn't suffice: the form specifically states that the religious organization must have existed continuously since 1950.

Opting out of FICA (1)

beamin (23709) | about 3 years ago | (#36823366)

Yeah, who wouldn't want to subject all of their retirement savings to the booms and busts of a corrupt private market?

Re:Opting out of FICA (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36823420)

You would rather trust it to the government?

Re:Opting out of FICA (1)

rubycodez (864176) | about 3 years ago | (#36823572)

as opposed to subjected it to the bust of a beyond bankrupt government. The social security monies really were looted and replaced with IOUs; many shills for the system are trying to portray it otherwise.

Re:Who taught them how to negotiate? (1)

RottenJ (2060834) | about 3 years ago | (#36823416)

They should pay SS taxes considering they are taking a job that should be done a US citezen.

Strange brew that's also good for you (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36822736)

That would be home made Kombucha.

The search results (except yahoo) were mauled by paid placement schemes long ago, before the terroristic redirecting malware was even thought of.

Ms. Clinton is doing software sales & service now? Talk about popular trends?

So thats how the US will survive .. (1)

OzPeter (195038) | about 3 years ago | (#36822742)

as a protectorate of India!

open source wont save you know (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36822758)

open source wont save you know

Re:open source wont save you know (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36823856)

Won't save you know what?

Ah yes, the American Way! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36822778)

Even the .gov is outsourcing. USA! USA! USA!

in a counter move, the global IT union said (1)

decora (1710862) | about 3 years ago | (#36822786)

oh wait, there is no global union of IT workers....

(not yet anyway)

Re:in a counter move, the global IT union said (1)

royallthefourth (1564389) | about 3 years ago | (#36823038)

And it's amazing, too, since you can't just hire a scab to replace a programmer during a strike. It takes a month or two for a new hire to produce anything useful that integrates with your current software, and even that requires guidance from the people who are already there. If those people are out on strike, there is no such guidance, and maybe not even anyone to provide a list of servers and passwords. Nothing could possibly get done without the techies around to make it happen.

For us web developers whose work gets billed out at 10x what we bring home, it's obvious that we should be getting paid far more than we are now.

Re:in a counter move, the global IT union said (1)

Bob the Super Hamste (1152367) | about 3 years ago | (#36823338)

Its not just web developers who get billed out a 10x what they bring home. At my company I was a lead on a project and found out for T&M work individual workers are billed to the customer at about the same rate.

Re:in a counter move, the global IT union said (1)

hedwards (940851) | about 3 years ago | (#36824042)

You do realize that there's overhead and other costs involved, right. It's not just the cost of the wages that has to be included, there's the cost of benefits, pay roll taxes, capital expenditures and whatever other costs are involved with running the business.

Even if one is working for oneself the actual take home pay is probably only a half or so of the total fee.

Re:in a counter move, the global IT union said (4, Insightful)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | about 3 years ago | (#36823492)

time to start listening to pete seeger (again).

UNIONIZE.

we need this, now. yes, unions can go too far. but corp america already HAS gone too far.

I'd take union corruption over employer based corruption any day.

turn of the 1900's - here we come again!

Re:in a counter move, the global IT union said (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36823734)

If the US IT workers unionize and the Indian IT workers unionized then it would be their union vs ours. The Indians would still get the jobs as they are cheaper and if the US workers threatened to strike the Indian unions would offer more workers to make up for the losses. Union can only leverage in a closed market, which the world no longer is and an Indian Union is not going to strike in solidarity of a US union when it wants to take the US jobs.

Re:in a counter move, the global IT union said (1)

royallthefourth (1564389) | about 3 years ago | (#36823988)

The situation you're describing only exists in your imagination. Unions practice solidarity with other workers because our opponent is capital, not other workers.

Re:in a counter move, the global IT union said (0)

perryizgr8 (1370173) | about 3 years ago | (#36823674)

unions exist for unskilled workers, those doing the kind of work that any random healthy person can do, with minimal training. are you suggesting it workers are like that? i don't think so. unions are made to empower workers who are unable to negotiate, usually due to their work being mindless and repetitive.

Re:in a counter move, the global IT union said (3, Insightful)

royallthefourth (1564389) | about 3 years ago | (#36823800)

No, unions exist so that any type of workers can band together to push back against their employer when they inevitably get fucked over. Individuals are easy to replace, but there's power in numbers.

Re:in a counter move, the global IT union said (1)

perryizgr8 (1370173) | about 3 years ago | (#36824006)

No, unions exist so that any type of workers can band together to push back against their employer when they inevitably get fucked over. Individuals are easy to replace, but there's power in numbers.

not when they're doing something that only a few other people can do. like software developement. they ARE easy to replace if they're doing something any normal human would be able to do, for example driving a garbage truck. in fact, the wiki page on unions redirects from "labor union".

Re:in a counter move, the global IT union said (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36823870)

This is stunningly ignorant or maybe just elitist.  Unions exist, in theory, as a counter-weight to invalid power structures.

Re:in a counter move, the global IT union said (1)

perryizgr8 (1370173) | about 3 years ago | (#36824026)

This is stunningly ignorant or maybe just naive. Unions exist, in reality, as a method to empower unskilled labor, which cannot properly negotiate on the terms of its employment.

Re:in a counter move, the global IT union said (1)

dkleinsc (563838) | about 3 years ago | (#36823816)

You have nothing to lose but your on-call pager! IT workers of the world, unite!

I'm actually being serious about that - a strong IT union or professional organization would go a long way towards improving developer working conditions.

Well, at least she's creating jobs SOMEWHERE (1, Funny)

elrous0 (869638) | about 3 years ago | (#36822796)

Lord Vishnu thanks you, Hilary.

Where do I sign up? (2)

gblackwo (1087063) | about 3 years ago | (#36822808)

23 year old mechanical engineer here, where do I sign out of Social Security?

Re:Where do I sign up? (2)

OzPeter (195038) | about 3 years ago | (#36822836)

23 year old mechanical engineer here, where do I sign out of Social Security?

Start here: http://www.immigrationindia.nic.in/ [immigrationindia.nic.in]

Re:Where do I sign up? (1)

gl4ss (559668) | about 3 years ago | (#36822876)

usually you sign out of social security by getting a job, if you want to sign out of paying for it start your own company and don't take a salary.
what i'd like to know is were they eligible for the social security they were paying taxes for?

Re:Where do I sign up? (2)

gblackwo (1087063) | about 3 years ago | (#36822936)

I have a job. I simply have no faith that SS will be around by my retirement and would rather not throw my money away.

Re:Where do I sign up? (3, Interesting)

Winter (87716) | about 3 years ago | (#36822966)

As a H1B, no, you are not eligible for social security.
(Taxation without representation?)

Re:Where do I sign up? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36823130)

Can I renounce my citizenship and get an H1B all at the same time?

Re:Where do I sign up? (1)

EvilStein (414640) | about 3 years ago | (#36823412)

Yet we're always told that illegal immigrants are paying into SS but won't ever get it. Now the H1B group will simply be exempt?

How long before the new "guest worker" program wants the same treatment?

We're going to have millions more *not* paying into the system, and people will act surprised when it fails.

Re:Where do I sign up? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36823696)

Yet we're always told that illegal immigrants are paying into SS but won't ever get it. Now the H1B group will simply be exempt?

How long before the new "guest worker" program wants the same treatment?

We're going to have millions more *not* paying into the system, and people will act surprised when it fails.

SS is too big to fail.

Re:Where do I sign up? (1)

kj_kabaje (1241696) | about 3 years ago | (#36823922)

And this is different than what coporations try to do by not paying taxes how?  Seems like it works just fine when we just print more money, right?

Re:Where do I sign up? (1)

hedwards (940851) | about 3 years ago | (#36824060)

That's actually true. How that typically works is that they need to have a valid SSN in order to be hired and payroll takes the social security tax out automatically on whatever one makes up to the limit. So, they'll end up paying the taxes and whoever it is that the SSN corresponds to gets the benefits.

As for the GP's taxation line, that really only applied because there wasn't any way of gaining representation. It doesn't really apply to individuals that don't go through the naturalization process.

She hasn't exempted them (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36823116)

India ASKED her to exempt them from taxes, she DECLINED to do so, India has PRESSED her again... So even Clinton isn't that dumb.

A lot of vague talk on working with them to market data.gov to other nations.... words.... cheap.

Promises on Cybercrime from the Indians.... words,... cheap. They're a big malware laden pirate software market, up there with Russia & Turkey.

Re:She hasn't exempted them (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36823282)

Someone please mod parent up.

Amazing how "India asks Hilary for X" gets turned into "Hilary gives X away." Seriously. You didn't even have to RTFA to know the exception wasn't granted. I can ASK the US govt to exempt me from all taxes. Doesn't mean they will do it.

Realy? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36822830)

So what they want every IT job to be outsourced now ? Jesus this getting sad. Unemployment is sky high but where gonna give more tax breaks to H1Bs ......

Re:Realy? (1)

slackbheep (1420367) | about 3 years ago | (#36822954)

But just think, a billion saved by businesses! Obviously that will trickle do—
hahahaha oh god I just can't do it.

Re:Realy? (1)

bberens (965711) | about 3 years ago | (#36823086)

I live in a medium-large sized city. IT unemployment here is like 2% and we can't fill our open head count. I'm sure a lot of people are upset that improvements in technology have made it so that lower skilled workers can do their work for less money, but that's certainly not unique to IT (manufacturing is an obvious example). At the same time, while I'm not seeing the wage growth I was accustomed to there's plenty of work for the foreseeable future.

Re:Realy? (1)

mdf356 (774923) | about 3 years ago | (#36823154)

Ditto. Here in Seattle every software shop I know of is hiring like crazy.

Re:Realy? (1)

Methuseus (468642) | about 3 years ago | (#36823296)

Maybe I need to either move to Seattle, or become a developer. I work with the network/hardware support area and unemployment in my area (Tampa Bay) seems fairly high for those types of jobs. Oh, and I've heard Seattle is nice, as well. I will see as I am vacationing there in the next few months.

Re:Realy? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36823604)

Oh, and I've heard Seattle is nice, as well.

WaHAHAHAHAHAH! Seattle is like Prague without the fancy architecture and histroy.

It's terrible weather has quite the effect on people - first, your gonads will shrink, causing you to buy ever-tighter black pants. You will not have money for real shoes, either, so you will buy Chuck Taylors to match. Since there is nothing to do there but hang out at Starbuck's, you will lose weight and wither into a wiry, androgynous girlie-boy. The lack of sunlight will turn your hair black. The lack of sexual identity will cause you to do crazy things like get your lips pierced. You will listen to toothless "indie" music and spend all your time crying to other girlie-boys about how much your life sucks.

Then you will come to Southern California on vacation and get stomped by a bunch of piggish, steroid-addled goons and their anorexic trophy-bimbos.

-- Ethanol-fueled

Re:Realy? (1)

Warlord88 (1065794) | about 3 years ago | (#36823318)

The current law stipulates that no more than 65,000 H1-B visas be issued each fiscal year. As of July 18, only 20,500 of these are filled. Of those, around 12,800 hold a Master's degrees. Are you suggesting that stopping the H1-B program is going to improve employment in US? No. What you'll be doing is reducing the quality of workers in American workplaces.

As regards to removing taxation, I am somewhat ambiguous. One could argue that since H1-B holders are not eligible to receive Social Security benefits, so they should not pay taxes However, a significant number of H1-B holders stay on to obtain a green card, making them eligible for the said benefits. Personally, I have no problem paying the Social Security taxes. The job that I am going to start in a month or so is fairly high-tech, the work is very intellectually stimulating and is simply not done in my home country. I am more than happy to help the currently unemployed Americans by paying my share of taxes. I view this as a price I pay for the better living conditions and greater job satisfaction. Mind you, that does not mean that either of them will be able to do my job. If any American is as skilled as I am, he won't have any problem getting a similar job position as mine.

Ya, rly (1)

beamin (23709) | about 3 years ago | (#36823432)

The figures you mention are, as you said, for EACH FISCAL YEAR. There are many more than 20,500 (or even 65,000) H1-B visa holders in the US. I'm sure that you're a precious snowflake, but you're kidding yourself if you think that no one in a nation of 300 million could do the work you're doing.

Re:Realy? (1)

Tsingi (870990) | about 3 years ago | (#36823560)

I am more than happy to help the currently unemployed Americans by paying my share of taxes. I view this as a price I pay for the better living conditions and greater job satisfaction.

That's socially concious of you. too bad there aren't more people like you.

Most of the people in this thread, it seems, have the attitude of the corporations. Give me all the money and to hell with everyone else.

That's why the US is the mess it is today.

As for US Social security, it's stable as long as they don't fuck with it. And they will, there's money in there, it doesn't matter that it's self sufficient, we can fix that!

*gimme! mine!*

Some would call this fascism.

They don't care (3, Insightful)

soupforare (542403) | about 3 years ago | (#36822852)

They don't even care to pretend to act in the best interests of the citizenry anymore. It's absolutely brazen.

Re:They don't care (0)

Zontar_Thing_From_Ve (949321) | about 3 years ago | (#36823326)

Well, with a Democrat in the White House I am finding it hard to believe that this one will happen. If it was a Republican in the White House and if the Republicans controlled Congress, it might happen, but even then I'm not so sure. Given the amount of budget cuts coming soon and the high domestic unemployment, a freebie for IT companies that won't result in any extra American jobs would seem to be political suicide, but that wouldn't stop some Tea Party supporters from thinking it's a great idea.

Social Security..... (1)

Quato (132194) | about 3 years ago | (#36822862)

I'm a US citizen, and I firmly believe the gov't will piss away all my Social Security 'savings' before I hit retirement age. I'm in my mid-thirties and most of my friends feel the same way.
I think it's screwed up that foreign workers have to pay into a retirement system they will never see a nickle from. I also think young people today paying into a system that we have no faith in is screwed up. It should be an optional system.

Re:Social Security..... (1)

KCWaldo (1555553) | about 3 years ago | (#36822922)

The only reason it works, to some extent, is because it is not optional. Maybe they should replace the SS tax with an unemployment tax.

Re:Social Security..... (1)

DaMattster (977781) | about 3 years ago | (#36823106)

In many states, there is an unemployment tax already which goes to fund Unemployment Compensation.

Re:Social Security..... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36823058)

I think its screwed up that the U.S. seems to be more concerned with Indian Citizens jobs than they do with U.S. Citizens jobs. ...

Re:Social Security..... (1)

hedwards (940851) | about 3 years ago | (#36823160)

Unavailability of jobs in foreign countries are seen as a national security issue where as unavailability of jobs in the US are seen as sloth on the part of the unemployed. Because obviously nobody would work if they could get regular checks that don't even cover the cost of living.

Re:Social Security..... (2, Insightful)

Ogive17 (691899) | about 3 years ago | (#36823162)

I think if you work here you should pay as much as the next guy. If you don't like it, find a job in another country.

My wife is currently on an H1B visa (though we're going through the green card process right now). She's always had to pay the same taxes I've had to pay. She also cannot vote so she doesn't have a 'voice'.

But you know what, that's part of the cost of immigrating to the US.

Re:Social Security..... (1)

L4t3r4lu5 (1216702) | about 3 years ago | (#36823540)

More fool you.

Or, was this somehow supposed to be a positive experience?!

Re:Social Security..... (1)

bberens (965711) | about 3 years ago | (#36823208)

We have decided in America that we want our elderly people to have a modicum of dignity in their old age. Until we're willing to let the elderly wallow in their own filth and die in the streets of hunger and disease that's not changing. While I'm definitely on the side of improving efficiency and reducing fraud in the system I don't really have a problem with pitching in so old people can eat a decent meal occasionally. One of these days I'm going to be old too and my faith in the stock market/401k system is not much greater than my faith in SS.

Re:Social Security..... (1)

Methuseus (468642) | about 3 years ago | (#36823334)

Yes, but look at other countries such as Germany, France, and others in Europe. They have government pensions for the elderly and don't have nearly the problems. Not saying I know how to fix it, but it is fixable. Maybe not with an "American" mentality, though.

Re:Social Security..... (1)

HornWumpus (783565) | about 3 years ago | (#36823756)

You might want to do some research on the funding status of those government pensions because lots of Europe is in a worse position then the USA. Not every nation but most.

At least we can print money and inflate away our debt.

Re:Social Security..... (1)

Jaime2 (824950) | about 3 years ago | (#36823356)

I think it's screwed up that foreign workers have to pay into a retirement system they will never see a nickle from.

Social Security isn't a retirement system. It's a social safety net funded by a specific tax. A quarter of the recipients of Social Security benefits aren't of retirement age, guess where their money comes from? The biggest problem with Social Security is that many people see it as a system that holds on to your money and gives it back to you when you retire. Foreign workers living here benefit from the fact that we don't simply cast out those that cannot support themselves and make them fend for themselves.

Re:Social Security..... (1)

beamin (23709) | about 3 years ago | (#36823484)

The only way that Social Security will stop being available is when people stop paying into it. As far as the money borrowed out of the SS Trust Fund being paid back from general fund revenues... well, that's the heist that they're trying to pull off with this "deficit reduction" kabuki theater.

Re:Social Security..... (1)

HornWumpus (783565) | about 3 years ago | (#36823788)

Work the math beamin: Not enough people paying in, too many collecting. Government prints money. Inflation 'fixes' debt problem.

Re:Social Security..... (1)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | about 3 years ago | (#36823562)

foreign works - especially (!) - should do every god damned thing they can do to help the US. freeloading on the US then returning home with their money is the last thing we need more of, here.

they take. they take again. our jobs go away. and now even our future is to them.

take from the US, and take and take.

(kennedy had some choice words; and no, it did not just apply to those who want to take-and-run from what the US has to offer).

every time you drive on our streets, you benefit from our infrastructure. our clean water, or better food standards, our better jobs and better schools.

WE EXPECT YOU TO GIVE BACK, SOME.

Re:Social Security..... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36823624)

My suggestion is to go the private pensions plans way. You choose a private pension plan: you start by choosing the one who has less debts: ie the younger one because the older ones carry debts to the older gneration, then your children do the same as you do and instead of going to the same pension plan as you do, choose one provided by a newly created private entity who doesn't carry any debts. When you retire, your pension plan declares bankrupcy. Private pensions plans are unstable because newcommers (ie young ones getting their first job) should rationally choose a pension plan that is clean of debts.

Re:Social Security..... (3, Insightful)

Bob the Super Hamste (1152367) | about 3 years ago | (#36823682)

firmly believe the gov't will piss away all my Social Security 'savings' before I hit retirement age.

I hate to break it to you but they have already pissed away all of your social security "savings". The lock box you hear about is just filled with I.O.Us (government bonds). In years where Social security takes in more than it gives out (probably all years until recently) the government borrows from social security thus adding to the bonds that are held by the trust fund. That money is then added to the general fund and pissed away. Now this in general works well if you have increasing funds entering the social security program, but we really don't any more with the current economic down turn and beginning of the baby boomer retirement. When/if we climb out of this recession there will be a few more years where social security takes in more than it pays out. The real problems arise once social security needs to start cashing in those bonds, and gets worse once there are no bonds left to cash in. When social security starts cashing in bonds congress will have to either cut back on spending since they no longer have that source of revenue, or raise taxes to keep spending levels the same. Things will really start to get harry when social security no longer has bonds to cash in as at that point they can't meet their obligations and will only be able to pay out a percentage of their promised benefits, or go and seek additional revenue from the general fund.

Also keep in mind that you only pay in half "your money" to social security the other half is paid by your employer. Each pay period they take 6.2% from you pay while your employer also pays in that same amount on up to $106,800 of income currently, or in the case of a self employed person you get stuck paying the full 12.4%. To further worsen the current problems social security is facing there is a 2% deduction in the employ contribution so they are only paying 4.2% but their employer is still paying the 6.2% rate. The current benefits are based off of your highest 5 years of income up to some maximum so there is a maximum benefit for social security.

India needs jobs more than the US (0)

sl4shd0rk (755837) | about 3 years ago | (#36822896)

Thanks, biatch.

HIllary Clinton has done enough already (1)

alexmin (938677) | about 3 years ago | (#36822910)

Screwing up good processes at State Dept., that is.
This is strictly anecdotal evidence from personal experience, but under previous administration scheduling visa interview at US consulate abroad was a matter of going to a website and doing some clicks.

Under Clinton that changed into two phone calls to the consulate: first to pay some bucks for the privilege to talk to a call center rep and second is to schedule appt.

Job creating, my ass.

Re:HIllary Clinton has done enough already (1)

kj_kabaje (1241696) | about 3 years ago | (#36823938)

Nope. Revenue generating.  Who said Democrats didn't like big business?

Why should companies hire locally now? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36822930)

So now companies can get a huge discount on taxes when they hire software developers overseas compared to hiring people local to the US? Were not talking about a small amount of money either.

Amazing (1)

minderaser (28934) | about 3 years ago | (#36822934)

Amazing that she just comes right out like that and says, "Yes, let's make things HARDER for the American worker. Let's give businesses even MORE reason to hire non-Americans." Ms. Clinton - aren't you supposed to be working for _us_?

Moron! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36822982)

It says she was pressured to exempt them from Social Security taxes. Where does it say she actually took that into consideration, or even listened to them?

You are a fucking moron.

For Americans (1)

DaMattster (977781) | about 3 years ago | (#36823062)

This angers me beyond belief! We have plenty of development talent here in the United States. I am so sick of the erroneous belief that Indians make better programmers. It is simply not true. Too often I have seen an inferior product. If a large sector of America is unemployed, why are we importing labor? I thought that Clinton and Obama were against H1B visas. Fucking politicians .... Promise one thing and do another.

Newsflash: (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36823218)

Newsflash: Asshole, self-righeous Slashdotter can't read.

Go back and reread the summary, idiot. And maybe the article, if you can be bothered. Nowhere does it say she is interested in exempting anyone on visas from taxes. It says she was pressured to.

Re:For Americans (2)

mdf356 (774923) | about 3 years ago | (#36823250)

This angers me beyond belief! We have plenty of development talent here in the United States.

We don't, in the sense that the company I work for has open headcount and we can't find enough qualified people to fill it, either from the USA or anywhere else in the world. We've got a decent number of folks from Russia, India, Australia, Britain, Germany, etc. Neither the engineers nor the recruiters where I work think any specific nationality is "better" at writing software. We just hire the best wherever they come from.

If a large sector of America is unemployed, why are we importing labor?

Because none of the unemployed people can write good software? I dunno; I just know what resumes I see and who I interview and the majority don't meet our hiring bar.

Re:For Americans (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36823704)

That's because companies have set the bar artificially high over the last 15-20 years just so they can get cheap h1b visas in.

Re:For Americans (1)

dkleinsc (563838) | about 3 years ago | (#36823360)

I am so sick of the erroneous belief that Indians make better programmers. It is simply not true.

You don't understand - when management says "better", what they really mean is "cheaper".

Re:For Americans (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36823454)

+100.

Re:For Americans (1)

Warlord88 (1065794) | about 3 years ago | (#36823406)

Are you assuming that all Americans with same qualifications as H1-B visa holders are jobless? I highly doubt that.

Re:For Americans (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36823418)

We reap as we sow. Innovation, as students are taught, is no longer finding a better way to do something; it's finding some one to do the exact same thing cheaper. Look at what many might call one of the most innovative things in the past 5 years, Apples touch computers. Most of the innovation is cheaper parts. Take a look at how long it took to understand the touch interface. How long had Microsoft been trying? How many "apps" are really new and not just rehashed applications. Programming an iPad app or an Android app is only a special skill because of memory and processor limitations, not because of anything innovative. Give it a year of two and it'll be like writing a desktop app.

Many of us are guilty of the same thing. How often do we buy goods made in America? I started buying jeans from Diamond Gusset and Pointer Brand and they better than Levis. It's no cheaper, but it's American. I often tell friends that it's okay to buy a Hyundai or a Subaru built in the U.S.A. because they simply have chosen to outsource management. Better to buy a "foreign" car built in Maryville OH than to buy an American car made in Mexico or Brazil.

In the opinion of past managers I've worked for, Indians are better programmers. They don't argue with what he tells them to do. When they do what he tells them and it's wrong (which is often), they're cheap enough to do it over again (and again and again). He loves it because they gladly do it because they respect their superiors.

Re:For Americans (1)

rubycodez (864176) | about 3 years ago | (#36823700)

Indians are better programmers
No, they are mostly forced to being uncreative mindless drones because of culture and "the system" over there. The ones who can get out of that mindset, usually by going to foreign land and getting fired up about being self-empowered and innovative , now that's another matter.

Re:For Americans (2)

goruka (1721094) | about 3 years ago | (#36823474)

It's not about talent, it's about commitment. Foreigners have to work hard to obtain a green card in the long run (something you are born with). Workers in H1B have a higher degree of commitment and will not (or cannot) switch jobs that easily if overworked or underpaid, so they are naturally very appealing to companies (who pay for the h1b and green card).

Yes, for Americans (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36823494)

Doing anything to save money in this kind of situation is a good thing. It doesn't matter if we have plenty of development talent in US, if that talent is too expensive. Would you build an HTPC using a quad-Xeon board?

The warning sign here is that there was a billion dollars to "save" (did they really get the price down from $1,000,050,000 to $50,000?) and that a project as simple as a website is such a big deal that a Secretary of State is needed in its negotiations. Everything about that stinks of a complete ripoff, where taxpayers are going to be kickbacking to someone who helped/will_help fund a political campaign. There just isn't any other believable reason for this kind of nonsense.

If a large sector of America is unemployed, why are we importing labor?

Because it costs less. Those unemployed Americans haven't been unemployed long enough, so they haven't yet learned to be competitive enough to underbid Indians.

Face it, nobody believes the economy is weak. Minimum wage laws aren't getting repealed, government still spends huge amounts of money, etc. We act like we are a super-wealthy society whose government's coffers are so overbrimming with gold, that the government can afford to do more than what is required of it. Things like taking care of people, instead of merely protecting their rights. I'm not saying that's a bad idea, if we're as wealthy as we think we are. Maybe we really are that wealthy and all the "the economy sucks" talk really is bullshit. I don't know.

The American for Americans (1)

Eggun (238783) | about 3 years ago | (#36823082)

Mrs Hillary Clinton, you should be here the development of everything that is USA

H1-B karma burner (3, Insightful)

Urban Garlic (447282) | about 3 years ago | (#36823238)

I was on an H1-B for a while (in academic research, not software development, as it happens), and was puzzled at the time by the requirement to pay US Social Security taxes -- the H1-B is a visitor visa, not an immigrant visa, it's time-limited, and when it runs out, the assumption is that the individual will return to their home country. I would imagine that very few H1-B visa holders ever recover this money, so it's effectively a tax on the employer, paid into the SS trust fund.

Having H1-B holders not make SS contributions seems reasonable to me -- if you want to tax H1-B activity, you can always just raise the fees for the visa itself, to get the same effect -- but having only Indian H1-B holders be exempt from the SS contribution just seems bizarre.

The summary is unclear, but on the grounds of basic common sense, I hope that pressure and lobbying went nowhere.

Re:H1-B karma burner (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36823450)

Having H1-B holders not make SS contributions seems reasonable to me

The problem then is that it further incentivizes employers to hire an H1-B over an American citizen because the employer won't have to pay SS taxes on that employee.

Re:H1-B karma burner (2)

jameson (54982) | about 3 years ago | (#36823476)

No, there is no assumption that an H-1B holder `will return to their home country.' The H-1B is a dual-intent visa, meaning that you can apply for a permanent resident card while in the US and then legally stay as long as you want.

Incidentally, I'm currently on that very route. I still don't expect to ever see any benefits from the near-decade social security and taxes I've already paid while working on F-1 and J-1 non-immigrant visas.

Re:H1-B karma burner (1)

Bob the Super Hamste (1152367) | about 3 years ago | (#36823768)

The reason that H1-Bs have to pay into social security is so that they system stays solvent longer. You don't get to collect, but you have to pay. This does show where the program is flawed and that it is similar to a Ponzi scheme (I know it isn't a true Ponzi scheme but has some similarities) in that it always need new people paying in (especially those that will never collect) so that it can continue to function.

AGAIN??? (1)

sshirley (518356) | about 3 years ago | (#36823242)

WTF??? As if we didn't take enough of a hit in 2001-2003, we're going to open up the floodgates to India AGAIN??? I'd like a little protection here please, Mrs. Clinton.

Re:AGAIN??? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36823602)

If you have the choice between a white person and an indian, and you pick the white person because they are white... that is called discrimination and makes you racist.

If you are afraid of losing your job, be better than everyone else.

Re:AGAIN??? (1)

sshirley (518356) | about 3 years ago | (#36824066)

This has nothing to do with racial issues. This has to do with the US doing what's best for US citizens. If an Indian American and an Irish American were applying for the same job, give it to the best qualified. Don't import thousands of Indians to compete with us for own our jobs. If a German company is outsourcing their project and the best candidates are an Indian firm and an American firm, give it to the best qualified company. Don't throw down the "racist" card unless that's what it is.

Wake up, H1B is not the real problem.. (2, Insightful)

goruka (1721094) | about 3 years ago | (#36823814)

H1B is not taking your jobs, Outsourcing is.
Workers under H1B may be appealing to some degree because they are cheaper and more over-workable, but they can be counted in the thousands, and they still help the economy by spending what they earn.

Outsourced jobs, on the other hand, are in the millions and much more appealing economically to large companies. There's several millions of outsourced jobs, not only in India, but also taken by Chinese, east Europeans, Russians and Latin Americans.

Also the tale that foreigners are less talented and that Americans should be hired instead is no longer relevant, the same way that china raised it's production standards the rest of the world is doing the same and each year there's more and more companies with excellent track records ready for outsorcing jobs from US and Euro companies.
This is the real effect of globalization and opening trade. Rich countries thought they could own poorer countries by forcing them to compete equally and purchase their goods while providing cheap labor. This had the expected result of destroying most of the local industry in such countries and forcing them to rely on imports.
However, no one expected the software industry to become so relevant worldwide. Cheap labor suddenly became cheap outsourcing, and there is no way first world workers can match the cheap costs of the third world, so this trend will continue and get worse.

social security is going to run out of funds (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36823876)

But, what the heck, let's to do everything to make sure there's even less going into the fund. Makes sense to me.

Clarification (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36823954)

It is India asking Clinton for the SS exemption.

Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?
or Connect with...

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>