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GNOME and KDE Devs Wrangle Over 'System Settings' Name

timothy posted more than 3 years ago | from the keyboard-chooser-by-any-other-name dept.

GNOME 289

An anonymous reader writes "The developer of the KDE System Settings application has launched a formal complaint against GNOME for renaming 'Control Center' to 'System Settings' in GNOME 3.0. This developer is demanding that GNOME immediately change the name of their control panel area. Developers on both sides are now discussing this act."

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This is ridiculous! (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36857736)

Seems both KDE and Gnome are making themselves irrelevant. Switched to XFCE, not going back.

Re:This is ridiculous! (4, Interesting)

JamesP (688957) | more than 3 years ago | (#36857780)

[2]

No, really, this is ridiculous

KDE for breaking and rebuilding everything, while making it half-assed.
Gnome for dumbing-things down excessively (we may call it 'retarding-it-down')

Switched to XFCE. Next computer is going to be from that company from Cupertino

This whole kind of idiocy is why we can't have nice things...

Re:This is ridiculous! (2)

mhh91 (1784516) | more than 3 years ago | (#36857820)

I'm sorry, KDE is far from half-assed now, it might have been unstable back in the days of KDE 4.0.x

I'm using 4.6.5 on Arch Linux right now, and it's even more stable than GNOME 3.0, I know it should be, but yet again, 4.6.5 is the latest stable release, it hasn't been tested that thoroughly, either

Not to mention that Arch is known to be bleeding edge, so it's not the most stable distro around.

So yeah, I chose to go with KDE, at least for now, it's more reliable and customizable than GNOME 3.0.

Re:This is ridiculous! (1)

lattyware (934246) | more than 3 years ago | (#36858270)

Same situation here. I gues to run Gnome, switched when Gnome 3 couldn't handle my triple monitor set up. Now using KDE and liking it a lot.

Re:This is ridiculous! (2)

JamesP (688957) | more than 3 years ago | (#36858440)

True, I like(d) KDE, last time I tried it was 4.2 IIRC

Also, there's an issue with distros not properly supporting it. Even Kubuntu is so-so.

I LOVED KDE 3, KDE 4, even without the problems, I'm not a huge fan

But it's KDE anytime over Gnome. And what I like about XFCE is that it keeps the customization aspects of KDE while being lightweight.

Re:This is ridiculous! (3, Funny)

Joce640k (829181) | more than 3 years ago | (#36857856)

No, really, this is ridiculous

They're just following the Microsoft model of renaming/moving everything just when you get to know where things are and what they're called.

Microsoft spends millions of $$$ a year on usability studies so it must be the correct thing to do.

Re:This is ridiculous! (1)

gnawingonfoot (2170666) | more than 3 years ago | (#36858354)

Hey, I will have none of this 'retarding-it-down' nonsense. I may have mental diffabilities, but being a semi-literate computer user, Gnome is even a bit too simplified for me.

It was a great place to start learning, though.

Re:This is ridiculous! (1)

dotancohen (1015143) | more than 3 years ago | (#36858496)

[2]

No, really, this is ridiculous

No, really, it's worse than ridiculous. KDE shouldn't be calling their's "System Setting" either:
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=199326 [kde.org]

Re:This is ridiculous! (1, Insightful)

realityimpaired (1668397) | more than 3 years ago | (#36857854)

e17 ftw. :) Lighter than XFCE, even more customizable. Don't regret installing it for a moment. :)

Re:This is ridiculous! (2)

Stiletto (12066) | more than 3 years ago | (#36858040)

Lighter? What, does it make my laptop weigh less? What does that even mean anymore?

Re:This is ridiculous! (5, Funny)

bhcompy (1877290) | more than 3 years ago | (#36858114)

There's that word again; "lighter". Why are things so much lighter in the future? Is there a problem with the earth's gravitational pull?

Re:This is ridiculous! (2)

Jafafa Hots (580169) | more than 3 years ago | (#36858258)

The windows are all rendered in pastels.

Re:This is ridiculous! (1)

dotancohen (1015143) | more than 3 years ago | (#36858502)

There's that word again; "lighter". Why are things so much lighter in the future? Is there a problem with the earth's gravitational pull?

You'll know in 1986,
I can't believe that nobody got the BttF quote!

Re:This is ridiculous! (1)

VortexCortex (1117377) | more than 3 years ago | (#36858504)

There's that word again; "lighter". Why are things so much lighter in the future? Is there a problem with the earth's gravitational pull?

Wrong "lighter" -- They're talking the portable device that "can summon up fire without flint or tinder."

"This new battery makes my laptop lighter." Which is to say: The battery is now responsible for the device's spontaneous combustion capabilities.

Software that is very flawed can contribute to overheating, really bad code (especially in firmware) may cause a meltdown or small lap flame.

I'm positive that widespread pyromania is responsible for the term's proliferation and mistaken "positive" connotations by others.

Re:This is ridiculous! (3, Interesting)

Osgeld (1900440) | more than 3 years ago | (#36858174)

go get a early pentium4 with 512 megs of ram, run gnome and then run xfce (try your best to not infect it with too many gnome libs) you will see what lighter means instantly

on a much more extreme example take my powermac 9600/300. yea its slow but perfectly usable in xfce, in fact I had to use it for a couple weeks when my main desktop took a dump, uses half of its 256 megs of memory and suits its needs as both a daily electronics bench machine and retro computer (its 14 years old). I installed *something* that installed and started a gnome process and it doubled the boot time and left me with like 3% free memory, then failed to load the application.

Re:This is ridiculous! (5, Interesting)

mcgrew (92797) | more than 3 years ago | (#36858338)

It's the politically correct term for "not so damned fat and bloated", although "leaner" might be more PC.

I thought it was silly too until I rtfa. KDE is right, it will cause problems for folks using both.

Re:This is ridiculous! (1)

lattyware (934246) | more than 3 years ago | (#36858280)

Also ugly as sin and horrible to use. I tried it a while back when Gnome stopped supporting my triple monitor setup, couldn't stand it. I ended up going to KDE.

Re:This is ridiculous! (4, Insightful)

thsths (31372) | more than 3 years ago | (#36858404)

I have to say that XFCE is getting mighty fat recently - it is no fun on an old PC or even in a virtual machine. Which means that I am moving on to LXDE - it does just what I want, and it does it quickly.

Is there a law that says software has to get fat over time? Because that is surely the way it is going. KDE 1.0 was pretty light at some point, and up to KDE 3 it worked well in a virtual machine. I guess I could always use trinity instead - but then again I really like okular over kpdf...

Re:This is ridiculous! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36858036)

Then uninstall the KDE. It's irrelevant trash anyways. Duh.

Re:This is ridiculous! (2)

WrongSizeGlass (838941) | more than 3 years ago | (#36858108)

This is ridiculous!

Of course it is. Even I know to use mv to rename something in Linux.

Re:This is ridiculous! (0)

Stiletto (12066) | more than 3 years ago | (#36858188)

It's crazy. KDE and GNOME have been around since, what 1996? 1997? We're talking almost 15 years here. In 15 years these guys couldn't manage to combine efforts or consolidate the projects?

I mean, sure, having choice is great and all, but sit me down in front of a random Linux desktop system, and I don't think I could immediately tell you which desktop environment (or window manager) was running without playing around with the system. These projects have the same goals and a ton of overlap. Combine forces already, guys, jeez..

This is like the HD-DVD vs. Blu-ray war, except that it looks like it will never end.

Re:This is ridiculous! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36858456)

It's crazy. Windows and Mac OS have been around since, what 1984? 1985? We're talking over 25 years here. In 25 years these guys couldn't manage to combine efforts or consolidate the projects?

Fixed that for you.

Re:This is ridiculous! (2)

danbuter (2019760) | more than 3 years ago | (#36858250)

I've switched to XFCE, and I like it a lot. Much better than either the current Gnome or KDE.

Re:This is ridiculous! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36858310)

XFCE is nice, but even it is beginning to feel a bit...heavy... I've used Blackbox in the past, on P1s and PIIs, it was pretty sharp. I think I am migrating toward the Tab Window Manager, ultimately.

Re:This is ridiculous! (1)

cynyr (703126) | more than 3 years ago | (#36858370)

XFCE feels heavy when you have a lot of gnome tie in. I'm running gentoo with "-gnome -kde -qt -qt4" in my USE flags. None of the gnome/kde cruft. Granted I like gnome-screensaver better than xscreensaver, but ohh well.

Really? (1)

houstonbofh (602064) | more than 3 years ago | (#36857740)

Is that the biggest issue we face? Are we turning in to commercial software companies now? Did he request it in the Eastern District of Texas?

Re:Really? (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36857786)

RTFA. The real issue is that duplicating the name is causing system conflicts for those with both installed.

Re:Really? (1)

Shadow99_1 (86250) | more than 3 years ago | (#36857834)

Then why not instead make it so having both installed with the same name doesn't matter...? I can think of a few easy fixes and my day job is not programming... Instead they want to act like three year olds, which frankly is silly.

Two menu items with the same name (4, Informative)

tepples (727027) | more than 3 years ago | (#36858010)

If you have two menu items with the same name, how do you decide which to choose? The short-term solution being proposed in the thread is to rename the "System Settings" of whatever desktop is not in use: call GNOME's app "GNOME System Settings" when in a KDE desktop.

Re:Two menu items with the same name (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36858378)

Or move it to another menu or both, sure. Something with a little dynamic intelligence to it, something that actually fixes what is arguably a highly broken standard if it can't adapt. Because this is not even the first time menu items have conflicted like this.

A pox on both their houses I say. GNOME demands you use their UI preferences (want the workspace switcher anywhere but on the left? too bad for you) and KDE can't fix basic problems like konsole screwing up copy/paste from scrollback (that bug's now two years old).

Re:Really? (1)

Dahamma (304068) | more than 3 years ago | (#36858074)

It really depends on how and where they conflict. For example, if both insist on using the same directory name in the same menu/subdirectory, it might not be easily resolvable. There could be cases that would require one of the projects to change names of file, directories, menus, whatever. "Fixing" it without either side changing anything in their own projects could require a lot lower level fundamental changes to other areas.

And since you're right, they are both acting like 3 year olds, I doubt those working on those other areas are interested in changing things just so both of the children get their cookie.

it's a feature (1)

Hognoxious (631665) | more than 3 years ago | (#36857860)

The developers probably don't see that as a problem; it's something like an "unpermitted use case", which is code for something they'd never do, hence nobody else should.

Re:Really? (1)

StripedCow (776465) | more than 3 years ago | (#36857894)

RTFA. The real issue is that duplicating the name is causing system conflicts for those with both installed.

Aha! So the true culprit is Linux, for not providing a proper namespace mechanism.

Re:Really? (1)

cloudmaster (10662) | more than 3 years ago | (#36858134)

The real problem is themselves, for not providing a menu system that allows for any other environment to be simultaneously installed.

Re:Really? (2)

TheCycoONE (913189) | more than 3 years ago | (#36858158)

Not so much Linux, the kernel knows nothing about these files. The structure they are using to specify menu entries is specified by freedesktop.org, who are suppose to provide specifications for ensuring desktop environments are compatible so in a sense it's their fault. Suddenly the Windows pseudo-standard of CompanyName -> Application Name makes a little more sense.

Re:Really? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36858020)

I didn't RTFA, but I don't give a fuck. They're the developers, they should find a way to name it "System Settings" (because it sounds better than Control Center).

Re:Really? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36858326)

I didn't RTFA, but I don't give a fuck.

Yet unknowingly you are on the same wave as the GNOME developers. They too as usual do not give a fuck: they have changed the name knowing that it would cause a conflict.

They're the developers, they should find a way to name it "System Settings" (because it sounds better than Control Center).

Though often KDE user, I actually prefer "Control Center" name. Because KDE's are not only System Settings but also user User Settings and System Information.

Re:Really? (1)

erroneus (253617) | more than 3 years ago | (#36858126)

I read the article and the thread. There is a perfectly good solution presented and that would be to use the OnlyShowIn option on the .desktop files. That option was created specifically to handle situations like these and it would be proper to utilize them.

While the KDE side would like to see different names as their form of distinction, I would argue that it is actually more advantageous that the names be identical to help the user when switching between KDE and GNOME. As pointed out, having two similar names is no better than having two identical names. If one is for KDE while the user is in GNOME or vice-versa, LOTS more confusion will result. Having DE specific configuration tools available in other DEs should be veryt confusing for users. In short, I favor the user experience over anything as trivial as a name dispute.

KDE and GNOME devs simply need to do it predictably and properly so that the two environments can co-exist. There should be no excuse for not doing it properly regardless of who had what name first.

first (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36857742)

post.word.

this amounts to (0)

FudRucker (866063) | more than 3 years ago | (#36857752)

two fat slobs fighting over the last greasy porkchop

yea keep squabbling (-1, Troll)

Osgeld (1900440) | more than 3 years ago | (#36857766)

over stupid shit, see how far it will get you in the real world, its not like either of you have a compelling product. News here guys, only a fraction of linux users give a fuck about your overbloat window managers, you have bigger things to worry about in your niche within a niche market for free software

Story? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36857772)

Are we going to have stories on every little juvenile temper tantrum? Just send them to their rooms until they're willing to work something out between them.

Yeah... (1)

AngryDeuce (2205124) | more than 3 years ago | (#36857776)

This is definitely something worth arguing about.

Re:Yeah... (2)

llindy (1030642) | more than 3 years ago | (#36858066)

This is definitely something worth arguing about.

You're right, as I DO use both kde and gnome. One does say System Settings, the other is Control Center. Hence, I've run into the same situation with "screensaver: which now I have 2 entries, both of which are identical, but alas, click the wrong one, and it asks you if you want to shut down gnome. What a pity that Gnome & KDE devs have to act like a couple of kids in a sandbox, and you stole my toy.

Re:Yeah... (4, Funny)

rubycodez (864176) | more than 3 years ago | (#36858118)

Quit using two bloated desktops that jumped the shark and have roadmaps leading to buggy piles of shit as milestones, and your problems are solved.

Re:Yeah... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36858344)

This. Just use Openbox or something. There's no need to use Gnome or KDE. Also, they should just name it KDE System Settings and Gnome System Settings. That 6, respectively 4 characters won't kill anybody.

Microsoft ? Apple ? Cisco ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36857778)

Nah, the little ones have learned their lesson well. They don't need a large company anymore
to have something stupid to argue about.

"control panel" (0)

defiantredpill (2056302) | more than 3 years ago | (#36857790)

Hmm, if it is a "control panel" why not just call it that??? I'm surprised that KDE hasn't named theirs Kontrol Panel, then everyone would be confused!!!

Re:"control panel" (3, Funny)

erroneus (253617) | more than 3 years ago | (#36858144)

Agreed. It should be Kontrol Kpanel. They really love putting K in front of everything as it is... or have they finally gotten over that?

Re:"control panel" (1)

lattyware (934246) | more than 3 years ago | (#36858292)

They have started to discourage it, I believe. I've noticed it less and less.

That is a ridiculous complaint ... (1)

fuzzytv (2108482) | more than 3 years ago | (#36857792)

I'm a satisfied KDE user, but this complaint is absolutely ridiculous. Does that mean each system component needs a name that's unique in the whole universe?

Re:That is a ridiculous complaint ... (1)

stderr_dk (902007) | more than 3 years ago | (#36857994)

Does that mean each system component needs a name that's unique in the whole universe?

May I suggest UUIDs as names?

"So after installing 5229a8ab-8a08-4fe1-9645-37332d8abf09, you start 15286b6e-e44d-4601-a10a-92d7b9920958 and 2d9c0817-8156-4982-8533-dd1fc466661e, then open the 'File' menu in 014e0080-a5f2-4f12-9d20-7aaea21dd8a2 and click 'Open'..."

We can even throw away the version numbers. Just generate a new UUID when you change your program.

Re:That is a ridiculous complaint ... (3, Insightful)

SomeKDEUser (1243392) | more than 3 years ago | (#36858034)

Yes. Basically, GNOME apps have some of their setting only st-able in the GNOME control panel. Same for KDE.

Now, despite what some people would have you believe, it is normal, usual, reasonable to have apps from both environment running under whitchever one you prefer. And you may still want to change their settings.

But now, it turns out that in your menu, you have two completely different system settings, named "system settings". This is clearly not very nice.

So ideally, they ought to be called GNOME SS and KDE SS, except for two details.
  - KDE named their "system settings" first, and the GNOME dev knew about that
  - KDE decided that "KDE" means the community, not the DE. And clearly, the app configures the DE...
To me, this is a case of KDE lacking a bit of forsight, and GNOME being their usual arrofant selves (we are an OS -- no you're not, you are a DE, and that is quite enough)

Re:That is a ridiculous complaint ... (2)

cloudmaster (10662) | more than 3 years ago | (#36858164)

Who cares who thought of it "first"? The phrase "System Settings" is not a name, it's a description of the tool. If they both manage system settings, and they're foolishly named based on what they do instead of what they are (like the current trend of calling Firefox / Koqueror / whatever "web browser" or just "web" in the menu), then obviously there will inevitably be conflicts.

Go back to coming up with unique names within a theme (ie, "Konfigure"), and this goes away.

Re:That is a ridiculous complaint ... (1)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | more than 3 years ago | (#36858406)

More than that, I'm fairly sure Apple called it "System Settings" before KDE did, which makes this really hypocritical on the part of the KDE devs.

seems to be about a name clash (2)

iampiti (1059688) | more than 3 years ago | (#36857798)

Quote from TFA: "He says that it will cause packaging problems if there cannot be two System Settings entries in a desktop menu, as such when running GNOME the KDE System Settings application may not appear listed".
If that's the case it's a bit ridiculous. Maybe it'd be good to add some kind of namespace system.
Anyway...this doesn't deserve to be on slashdot front page.

Re:seems to be about a name clash (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36857928)

Jesus... that email written by a KDE developer REALLY doesn't paint the project in a good light. It's childish, petulant and rude... for no good reason.

I have to say... whenever I've had be involved with any KDE-related I've been left with a similar impression. They need a dose of the real world

Re:seems to be about a name clash (5, Insightful)

SomeKDEUser (1243392) | more than 3 years ago | (#36858062)

Uhh, I also comes from a long background of GNOME ignoring KDE, and acting as though they exist in a vaccuum. Also, they knew about the naming issue.

So the guy has reasons to be miffed: GNOME, at this stage lives in a bizzare delusion that they are an OS, and not just a DE. And this attitude is clearly grating: they seem to believe that what they do is the standard, and that probably KDE is something like windowsblind is (was?) for MS windows. And of course, the KDE dev have stopped assuming good faith, because their is none.

Re:seems to be about a name clash (1)

makomk (752139) | more than 3 years ago | (#36858222)

Yeah, the KDE developers have spent a lot of time chasing after compatibility with Gnome's latest NIH ideas (badly thought out new methods of hadling system tray items, changing how to handle shutdowns every other release...)

Re:seems to be about a name clash (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36858244)

Inferiority complex much?

Re:seems to be about a name clash (1)

Stiletto (12066) | more than 3 years ago | (#36858110)

I agree completely. If I got a childish E-mail like that from a co-worker about a project I'm working on, I'd be pretty astounded. Totally unprofessional.

Re:seems to be about a name clash (1)

wagnerrp (1305589) | more than 3 years ago | (#36858032)

While I might understand if they're talking about actual command line applications, as that will cause file conflicts in package managers, but that can be solved by simply prefixing each with there DE name, as should have been done in the first place. If you're running the GNOME desktop environment, why would you want to run the KDE System Settings application?

Re:seems to be about a name clash (1)

Laser Lou (230648) | more than 3 years ago | (#36858262)

Anyway...this doesn't deserve to be on slashdot front page.

Slashdot is "New for Nerds", right? Can you think of anything more nerdish?

Do you have a flag? No flag, no country (1)

Hope Thelps (322083) | more than 3 years ago | (#36857802)

Actual quote:

"As KDE occupied this name first, it is ours as a result, and I will NOT be relinquishing it"

File Conflict (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36857804)

Relax guys. It is a real problem that need to be solved. Image you have two command line app with the same name. What do you do? Your package manager wont let you have them both installed at once because they have a file conflict.

It's what happen here. KDE had it 3 years before Gnome. I think the complaint is valid. You can call two applications the same in Linux, it will just cause conflict. It's the way it work. Please don't replay saying "use prefix", it's an hack, not a solution.

Re:File Conflict (1)

defiantredpill (2056302) | more than 3 years ago | (#36857862)

A postfix would be a good option, users want to see one name, one thing to learn. Just call it Control-Panel-[Win,KDE,Gnome]

Re:File Conflict (1)

tokul (682258) | more than 3 years ago | (#36857892)

A postfix would be a good option, users want to see one name, one thing to learn. Just call it Control-Panel-[Win,KDE,Gnome]

Wrong word order. If you want to say "it is red", you don't say "is it red"

VSO word order (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 3 years ago | (#36858028)

Wrong word order. If you want to say "it is red", you don't say "is it red"

You don't in English, but you do in Welsh, Irish, Hawaiian, Tagalog, and written Arabic [wikipedia.org] .

Re:VSO word order (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36858420)

And in russian, you say "is red". Russian is terse, and tends to omit pronouns when they're implied.

Re:File Conflict (1)

sorak (246725) | more than 3 years ago | (#36858060)

A postfix would be a good option, users want to see one name, one thing to learn. Just call it Control-Panel-[Win,KDE,Gnome]

Wrong word order. If you want to say "it is red", you don't say "is it red"

That post made no sense at all. Are you arguing for a prefix? That they call it "panel-control"? Why does the word order matter?

Re:File Conflict (1)

Belial6 (794905) | more than 3 years ago | (#36858064)

No, but you might want to say, President [of the United States] or President [of Sony Entertainment]. If you plan on referring to the only one of them 99% of the time with the matching word being what the thing is called, using the "of" form would be the correct word order.

So there is no standard. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36857810)

And this is how it gets shown.

For better or worse, with Linux we got Torvalds to drop by and tell people to stop being stupid.

We really need to clean up our act and keep the multitude of choices, while we produce a reference starndard for the GUI (a la POSIX -- it could very well _be_ POSIX).

DEs, distros, etc. need to see bigger and understand that we are doomed if we're divided. We could have ousted M$ long ago (even with their dirty tricks). Our enemy is ourselves, M$ is just a pale excuse. But will we unite? No, we seemingly can't make it happen... maybe if we a more powerful enemy?

Re:So there is no standard. (1, Flamebait)

http (589131) | more than 3 years ago | (#36857908)

Moron AC much? The post could be held up as an alternative canonical example of trolling - presenting plausible, but wrong, information as authoritatitve.
There IS a standard involved here, and GNOME is trying* to not simply ignore it, but break it.

* Sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from active malice

Naming conventions (1)

fph il quozientatore (971015) | more than 3 years ago | (#36857812)

Well, I also think that naming conventions should be enforced strictly to avoid getting in the user's way. For instance, there's a "feature" of latin languages (such as Italian, my native language) that can lead to lots of problems if one doesn't stick to the appropriated name conventions: the word order in expressions such as "Foo options" or "Foo settings" is the opposite with respect to English. Therefore, when you want to configure a network card you never know if you have to search "Network" or "Options for Network" or "Settings for Network" or "Instruments for Network", which are alphabetically very far apart. In particular, I find that the old Windows XP's control panel is a hell to browse.

Re:Naming conventions (1)

zippthorne (748122) | more than 3 years ago | (#36858294)

No, that's a different problem. That problem is that you're searching for the name of the thing you want directly, rather than a tag, or a word IN the name of the thing you want.

If your files and panels and whatnot are indexed properly, then when you search for network, you get all of the network related panels, and when you search for network settings, it doesn't just search for the string "network settings" but for all of the panels tagged, "network" which are also tagged, "settings." or have both words in the name.

developers everywhere are guilty of not making searches easy for users.

call FreeDesktop.org? (1)

bill_mcgonigle (4333) | more than 3 years ago | (#36857878)

Are the requirements so different that the KDE and GNOME guys can't work together to establish a common framework that would work well for both of them, and free up some additional cycles, say for keeping virtuoso from filling up the disk with .xsession errors or making GNOME 3 more configurable?

Where is the conflict? (1)

grumbel (592662) | more than 3 years ago | (#36857880)

Can somebody explain where exactly there is a conflict? Which namespaces are affected? dbus, /usr/bin/*, package names, .desktop files? "System Settings" as a name sounds perfectly fine and it makes perfect sense to name it that way for both environments, because it is a similar tool for the same job. Wouldn't the proper solution for this simply be to name the thing gsystem-setting and the other ksystem-settings and just label the menu entry "System Settings" depending on what DE you are currently running?

Re:Where is the conflict? (2)

allo (1728082) | more than 3 years ago | (#36858070)

that's one of the suggestions with a nativeDesktop=KDE, NonNativeName="KDE System Settings" in the .desktop file.

This is why Linux on the desktop is a joke (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36857890)

While the open source approach is great for creating server software and certain clients (eg Firefox, VLC, Transmission), the state of Linux on the desktop remains terrible. This bickering approach is a big factor why. Devs from KDE & Gnome should be working together on a unified system instead of wasting time and resources on separate projects. Shuttleworth has the right idea but Ubuntu is doomed because certain devs refuse to release new code to suit his release schedule.

What's really annoying is that Mac OS X will probably be deprecated in favour of iOS on the desktop. There is a golden opportunity for a comparable Linux distro but it will only happen when the devs agree to work together instead of fighting each other. So basically it will never happen.

App Store? (0)

Cinder6 (894572) | more than 3 years ago | (#36857906)

I bet many of these devs also criticized Apple for suing over the "App Store" trademark. Yay hypocrisy.

Gridiculous Klaims! (1)

formfeed (703859) | more than 3 years ago | (#36857954)

Why doesn't KDE just go with Kontrol Center and let Gnome use System Gsettings ?

Re:Gridiculous Klaims! (1)

Osgeld (1900440) | more than 3 years ago | (#36858120)

cause kde wants it THEIR way, and gnome wants it THEIR way

frankly I dont see the problem, kde has historically had most of its software listed with a K in front, why change it

Re:Gridiculous Klaims! (1)

xhrit (915936) | more than 3 years ago | (#36858288)

Except that kde has had it like that for a very long time and gnome just recently decided to rename theirs the exact same thing.

I personally don't care what they do. gnome is crap, gtk is crap, all of the apps that require gtk are crap, and it is completely unnecessary on any of the slackware machines I run.

Re:Gridiculous Klaims! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36858190)

Why doesn't KDE just go with Kontrol Center and let Gnome use System Gsettings ?

With the usability of the GNOME cpanel in mind, maybe "System Gettings" would be more appropriate ...

THIS. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36857964)

Is one of the top 5 reasons why i can't ever take *nix or it's supporters that seriously.

FAR too much pedantic arguing over stupid shit.

And most of them are guilty of it.

Re:THIS. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36858414)

Is one of the top 5 reasons why i can't ever take *nix or it's supporters that seriously.

FAR too much pedantic arguing over stupid shit.

And most of them are guilty of it.

As if equally stupid discussions don't happen between the developers of proprietary software. You just don't see them and therefore have no knowledge, much like how you have no knowledge with respect to the software you're running, what it's doing, what its malicious and/or spying features are, etc.

And even though the discussion sounds stupid and the person who sent the email was way too pissed off over such a minor issue, there's actually a usability issue to address.

two wrongs don't make a right. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36857970)

I always considered it douchey of kde to name it "systemsettings" anyway. Should have been "kde-system-settings" or something. It sure as hell doesn't handle non-kde stuff properly. But two wrongs don't make a right, gnome.

Using XFCE right now, because KDE and GNOME have both gone retarded. But XFCE depends on gtk+, which is heavily under GNOME influence, and I can see the GNOME guys, spurred on by ubuntards, being vindictive enough to break stuff XFCE needs.

E17?

GNUstep/etoile would be nicest in some ways IMO.

Re:two wrongs don't make a right. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36858046)

Spurred on by Ubuntards? You're nuts. Fucking Ubuntu over is probably the reason that Gnome (Redhat) devs changed the name to begin with.

Usual bit bullshit from Gnome devs (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36857974)

As usual, Gnome developers assume that users will only run their DE and piss on any distro's attempt to easily integrate other DE's into their platform. Just look at the hostile tone of Gnome devs' messages and failure to address Ben Cooksley's concerns. Even when someone helpfully suggests a solution to the problem that Ben agrees to, they still piss on it. Other independent (read non-Redhat) Gnome devs should take notice on how bad a reputation Gnome is getting in the FOSS world because of these arrogant pricks.

Re:Usual bit bullshit from Gnome devs (1, Informative)

visualight (468005) | more than 3 years ago | (#36858298)

The choice of name (and the conflict) was intentional. That's my problem with the whole thing.

Let me get it right. (4, Insightful)

drolli (522659) | more than 3 years ago | (#36858004)

The problem seems to be that duplicate names for different entries in menus on common distributions seem not be be correctly handled and the fix for this is not to go the consistent way (the same things are named in the same way) and fix the functions which create the menus (like detecting duplicate entries and attaching an indication of the package name in the entry), but to plainly forbid to name entries in the same way?

I dont like that. This is not the year of the linux desktop.

Re:Let me get it right. (0)

Arancaytar (966377) | more than 3 years ago | (#36858090)

This is not the year of the linux desktop.

I thought every year since 1991 has been the year of the linux desktop...

it's about name collision concerns (1)

sl4shd0rk (755837) | more than 3 years ago | (#36858100)

if you have an application named "System Settings" in both gnome and kde, you are going to have conflicts when both window managers are installed on the system. I'm not exactly certain how, but processes may confuse one for the other; it's just really bad practice to have two applications named the same anyhow. even if they *are* seperate distros.

Issue a real concern, not a GNOME-KDE war (1)

Umangme (1337019) | more than 3 years ago | (#36858446)

This is not a mudslinging war between GNOME and KDE. If you actually followed the email thread, there are many regular users who will be affected by this conflict and this has been acknowledged. Also, a solution [gnome.org] (apparently acceptable [gnome.org] to both sides) has been found.

[...] it's just really bad practice to have two applications named the same anyhow. even if they *are* seperate distros.

If you read the original email, the concern is that those who have both KDE and GNOME installed on the same installation (of their Linux distribution). Therefore, there will be real people who will have two menu entries in their menus. Slashdot has succeeded, yet again, to hype up and bring unnecessary attention to an issue that isn't as drastic and fought over as the post makes it appear.

issue shoud be resolved sooner than later (1)

IZN0GUD (804758) | more than 3 years ago | (#36858182)

for any slashdot reader, this is just a pissing contest of two DE dev teams. In RL, this harms propagation of linux as a desktop. The best way would be to have it named Control Panel so the noobs feel OK. It is traumatising for windows user to move to linux desktop, same name convention should make it easier on those - and for them it matters the most. Very few people like changes. Having less to remember is better today, at least for the Average Joe that has no time nor will to remember trivial names for the same thing.

Name it Control Panel (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36858200)

Problem solved.

Oh that's too Windows for us. How about System Control? It sounds like we're cool science fiction actors.

Simple solution (1)

LiroXIV (2362610) | more than 3 years ago | (#36858264)

Just call it "System Settings", then GNOME ''surely'' can't use it!

Gystem Gettings vs Kystem Kettings (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36858302)

Oh well, what the hell. A valid komplaint actually.

Kontrol Kenter (1)

HalAtWork (926717) | more than 3 years ago | (#36858368)

All this just because KDE wouldn't be able to call it Kontrol Kenter

Phoronix story..... (0)

RichiH (749257) | more than 3 years ago | (#36858388)

...there is an actual issue with naming conflicts here. Of course, Phoronix can not write that in the title as that would create less page impressions and resemble actual news reporting.

Thanks to the "anonymous readers" who keep submitting Phoronix advertisements^Wstories and the mods letting them through with all their bullshit we can have yet another thread with misinformed people trolling the hell out of the submission box.

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