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8GB of Data Stolen From Italian Cybercrime Unit

timothy posted about 3 years ago | from the what's-itallian-for-engrish? dept.

Crime 123

Orome1 writes "Evidence servers of the Italian National Anti-Cybercrime Center for the Protection of Critical Infrastructure (CNAIPIC) have been breached and some of their contents published by a group of hackers calling themselves 'Legion of Anonymous Doom,' who apparently got on board the AntiSec campaign. The group has made clear that its sitting on around eight GB of stolen data and that it plans to release it all."

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Well you see (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36880820)

what's-itallian-for-engrish? dept

it's Inga'lisha

Re:Well you see (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36880944)

> what's-itallian-for-engrish? dept

It's "Inglese Maccheronico" (Macaroni English).

http://www.spotanatomy.it/media/blogs/spot/WSI-pront.jpg
http://www.rosalio.it/wp-content/MaccheronicDay.jpg

Re:Well you see (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36881212)

i don't know what is worse, the post i made up as a joke on stereotypes or the fact that theres actually a term for it.

Somebody has to do it... (5, Funny)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | about 3 years ago | (#36880826)

Well... The Italians do have a lot of experience with 'protecting' critical infrastructure. It'd be a pity if it caught fire, after all...

Re:Somebody has to do it... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36880842)

That's a pretty nice division you've got there.
Oops, my brother is clumsy.

Re:Somebody has to do it... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36880862)

Well played, well played... :)

From the title... (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36880830)

8GB of Data Stolen sounds like a USB flash drive was stolen

Re:From the title... (1)

abednegoyulo (1797602) | about 3 years ago | (#36880856)

Look a flash drive! Lets see whats in it.

It seems it came from Italian National Anti-Cybercrime Center. Lets wreck havock and say that we hacked their data.

Re:From the title... (1)

mcgrew (92797) | about 3 years ago | (#36881550)

I got a grin out of that typoo. ;)

"Look, someone wreaked havoc! Lest wreck the havoc someone wreaked!"

Wreck havoc and lose the dogs of war!

Re:From the title... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36881646)

If you lost the dogs of war we should go find them so we can let slip the hounds of war.

YW

Re:From the title... (2)

BrokenHalo (565198) | about 3 years ago | (#36882094)

Since we already have a pedant at work here, I guess I might as well mention that a more correct form for the past tense of "wreak" is "wrought".

HTH ;-)

Re:From the title... (1)

mcgrew (92797) | about 3 years ago | (#36883952)

True, but that would spoil the joke.

Douglas A20 (0)

rossdee (243626) | about 3 years ago | (#36882674)

There was a light bomber in World War II called the Douglas A20 Havoc. I would guess that quite a few of them were wrecked.(by being shot down
(In RAF service the were called the Boston)

Re:From the title... (1)

Jonah Hex (651948) | about 3 years ago | (#36880958)

and nothing of value was lost....

Re:From the title... (1)

Chrisq (894406) | about 3 years ago | (#36881254)

and nothing of value was lost....

That USB drive had my porn stash on it, you insensitive clod.

Re:From the title... (2)

Jonah Hex (651948) | about 3 years ago | (#36881412)

and you only had 8 gigs of porn? Did you just get internet yesterday? :P

HEX

Re:From the title... (2)

Bobakitoo (1814374) | about 3 years ago | (#36881444)

Porn stolen from a 'cybercrime unit' are most likely to be child pornography. In your place, i would not claim ownership of that USB drive...

Re:From the title... (1)

trum4n (982031) | about 3 years ago | (#36881948)

You're inferring that a cyber-crime division has ever been successful. And that's a LOT of inferring.

Re:From the title... (2)

AlamedaStone (114462) | about 3 years ago | (#36882440)

You're inferring that a cyber-crime division has ever been successful. And that's a LOT of inferring.

It doesn't take a "cybersecurity expert" to find child porn. It's almost harder NOT to find underage self-shots by (mostly) girls with low self-esteem.

I've heard.

*cough*

Uhm. Think of the children!!

Re:From the title... (1)

trum4n (982031) | about 3 years ago | (#36882536)

All cyber-crime groups do is harass people who download music and further political agendas.

Re:From the title... (1)

NoSleepDemon (1521253) | about 3 years ago | (#36882954)

Well you certainly were thinking of the children

Re:From the title... (0)

Opportunist (166417) | about 3 years ago | (#36882934)

As someone who has to adhere to NDAs and thus can't really say more, let me only say this: You're WAY off. It's not most likely CP. It's not even close to most likely. You'd probably be very surprised if you saw what kind of porn you'll find in their evidence vault.

Re:From the title... (0)

mcgrew (92797) | about 3 years ago | (#36881522)

TFS looks like a bad google translation. Maybe it's because I'm on my first cup this morning, but ""Evidence servers of the Italian National Anti-Cybercrime Center for the Protection of Critical Infrastructure (CNAIPIC) have been breached" doesn't parse. There are some adverbs missing or something. Should it have read ""there is Evidence that servers of the Italian National Anti-Cybercrime Center for the Protection of Critical Infrastructure (CNAIPIC) have been breached"? Or was it "The 'evidence' servers of the Italian National Anti-Cybercrime Center for the Protection of Critical Infrastructure (CNAIPIC) have been breached"?

Coffee... need more coffee...

Re:From the title... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36881578)

The "Evidence servers" have been breached. Get more coffee.

Hmmm. (2)

BrokenHalo (565198) | about 3 years ago | (#36882162)

Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that these hacker/cracker groups always seem to be very forthcoming with claims for their achievements, claiming the material is to be released "soon", but never seem to actually come up with the goods. I don't get why they seem to believe we should all be impressed by their jerking off in public...

Re:Hmmm. (2)

bberens (965711) | about 3 years ago | (#36883066)

I'm guessing a lot of them get arrested pretty quickly. For example, a local kid got arrested by the FBI for being involved in the Anonymous "hacks." http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2011-07-20/news/os-fbi-ucf-police-cyber-investigation20110719_1_fbi-agents-ucf-student-fbi-program [orlandosentinel.com] The hacks tend to make bigger news than the arrests.

Re:From the title... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36881980)

TFS looks like a bad google translation. Maybe it's because I'm on my first cup this morning, but ""Evidence servers of the Italian National Anti-Cybercrime Center for the Protection of Critical Infrastructure (CNAIPIC) have been breached" doesn't parse.

Evidence is an adjective in this sentence, and the verb is passive voice. Servers containing evidence...

Hint (2)

dimethylxanthine (946092) | about 3 years ago | (#36880836)

Hey, maybe it's the kids' way of saying they're in search of a job. If I were the italians, I'd sit down with them and see what they can do for the (Italian|American|NATO... ) govt - as they can obviously do quite a bit and clearly more than their employed, university educated cybersecurity "specialists". 2c/

Re:Hint (5, Insightful)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | about 3 years ago | (#36880884)

That can, and sometimes does, work with the 'bored kids poking stuff because they can' flavor of hackers; but is not obviously a winning strategy with more ideologically motivated ones:

If somebody has nothing against you personally, a comparatively small amount of money, some positive social feedback, and the chance to not get sodomized in prison, can often turn them into a useful and productive security researcher.

If somebody does have something against you personally, taking them onboard just means that you can be more or less certain that you have an insider threat, rather than it merely being a possibility, as before.

Re:Hint (1)

Opportunist (166417) | about 3 years ago | (#36882958)

No. Just no. No way, no chance, not a moment I'd consider someone like this for a security job.

Why? Because I cannot trust them. I cannot trust them not to break the law, and very obviously I cannot trust them to at least shut up about it. And the very last thing I need is my security group being associated with black hat hacking.

Re:Hint (1)

dimethylxanthine (946092) | about 3 years ago | (#36883620)

In Soviet Russia the government listens to no one

Stolen or Copied? (2)

Scarletdown (886459) | about 3 years ago | (#36880838)

Was it actually stolen, as in it no longer exists on CNAIPIC's computers, or was it simply copied?

Re:Stolen or Copied? (3, Insightful)

Pieroxy (222434) | about 3 years ago | (#36880888)

They walked in, unplugged a USB key, pocketed it and walked out.

Does that count as theft ? ;-)

Re:Stolen or Copied? (0)

drinkypoo (153816) | about 3 years ago | (#36881290)

Nope, it's copyright infringement, unauthorized access, maybe trespassing depending on jurisdiction, but still no theft.

Re:Stolen or Copied? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36881378)

USB-devices does not count as property now?

Re:Stolen or Copied? (2)

kestasjk (933987) | about 3 years ago | (#36881388)

Taking a USB stick that doesn't belong to you isn't theft?

Re:Stolen or Copied? (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about 3 years ago | (#36881446)

Sorry, I read it as them going in and copying data onto their own USB stick.

Re:Stolen or Copied? (1)

tehcyder (746570) | about 3 years ago | (#36881732)

How about if the data was original, not backed up and you took the only version of it? Wouldn't that be theft?

Re:Stolen or Copied? (1)

Threni (635302) | about 3 years ago | (#36881886)

If they're sharing it? It's still theft if you hand it back? Sounds more like borrowing to me.

Re:Stolen or Copied? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36881410)

Nope, it's copyright infringement, unauthorized access, maybe trespassing depending on jurisdiction, but still no theft.

are you retarded?** If you take something that is not yours, without asking and without permission, that is theft. "copyright infringement", seriously??

**rhetorical question.

Re:Stolen or Copied? (1)

elewton (1743958) | about 3 years ago | (#36881932)

What thing did they take that doesn't belong to them? I see that they made unauthorised copies of data, and know that this is a crime in many jurisdictions, but see no thing that has been taken.

Re:Stolen or Copied? (1)

Opportunist (166417) | about 3 years ago | (#36882992)

Only if they handed back that USB stick. Then it could be seen akin to Joyriding [wikipedia.org] . Still a crime, but no theft at least.

Corrupt governments resorting to movie-logic. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36880910)

That's what is a dead give-away about all these articles blaming Anonymous and the so-called splinter groups of Anonymous. Rather than assert that anonymous proxy-zombie computers are copying insecure data from compromised government computers, we are told a fancy-filled story about a non-regulated malevolent cyber terrorist organization known as Anonymous that the governments are all forcing political dissidents to become associated with and membership to that criminal non-incorporation organization. It stinks that when governments are so-corrupt they blame everyone else for their problems so they can inspire new doctrines into more deadly legislation that does more to remove the inneficiency of comfort from the everyday lives of the people. That's all governments have been doing recently since September 11 is stabbing theirselves in their own chest to blame minority groups that have been found to had defected from these same governing bodies after found funded prior to be subversive to their own countriymen. If the people are caused damage to their property or injury to theirselves, then we file a claim in our country customs house like a County Court or such to retrieve compensation or repair for actual value, yet when governments are caused anything similar then they always provide a contract of regulation for which they demand any stile of scaled payment for the privilege of regulation and anything out of order they compel payment of fines of which non benefit from.

Organized government became institutionalized government, and now it is become deceased and no government at all.

Re:Corrupt governments resorting to movie-logic. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36882306)

"Organized government became institutionalized government, and now it is become deceased and no government at all." Then why are you still bitching and moaning about governments which according to your logic no longer exist? With no governments around to screw things up everything should turn into fluffy bunnies, campfire songs, peace on earth, and benign anarchy for the beloved masses. And why would the government blame Anonymous or any of these other little kiddie clubs when they do such a good job advertising their own accomplishments, hopes, and dreams?

Re:Stolen or Copied? (3, Funny)

Co0Ps (1539395) | about 3 years ago | (#36881184)

Don't worry. Even if the group did steal the data they have clearly stated that they will give it back. To as many as possible.

Pastebin is a news source now (3, Interesting)

bennett000 (2028460) | about 3 years ago | (#36880850)

strange that manifestos and data dumps from pastebin have become normal news http://pastebin.com/r21cExeP [pastebin.com]

Re:Pastebin is a news source now (3, Interesting)

TubeSteak (669689) | about 3 years ago | (#36880898)

I'm not surprised that the BBC article didn't link to the pastebin source.
When is 'big media' going to figure out that, on the internet, you can cite your sources?

Re:Pastebin is a news source now (1)

Tei (520358) | about 3 years ago | (#36881080)

I have noticed, too.

I think pastebin works somewhat like AnonOps news and Twitter. Withouth the size limits of Twitter.

Some dude X can upload a text to pastebin. And some dude Y can link to it, and make it public. Is anonymous and searchable (google index it).
Since is indexed in google Y can be a person that don't know X. X could have find the paste in google, and be one of the first to be reporting it. Since soon a lot of people will cite the link, no one can know whos the first poster of the link.

That it supports ASCII art is just icy on the cake :D

Re:Pastebin is a news source now (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36881186)

icing.

Always let your cake thaw!

Only in Italy... (1)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | about 3 years ago | (#36880866)

It's the silliest thing I've ever heard. Taking possession of the data and then threatening to publish it? Or what? It smells like Mafia-ish blackmail or "protection", but what's the payout?

Seriously: if they aren't pushing for some kind of concession on the part of the data owners, the best thing they could have done was just publish the information FIRST, then STFU. Or take credit for it afterward, if their egos simply couldn't stand the pressure. But announce it FIRST, and threaten to publish it LATER?

Definitely, somebody has been watching too many mob movies.

Re:Only in Italy... (1)

MimeticLie (1866406) | about 3 years ago | (#36880890)

They aren't threatening to publish it, they've put up some documents to substantiate their claim and have said they will publish it.

Seeing as they didn't make any demands in that press release, I think they're seeking media hype rather than attempting extortion.

Re:Only in Italy... (1)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | about 3 years ago | (#36880980)

"... they've put up some documents to substantiate their claim and have said they will publish it."'

Ahem... excuse me... that's called a "threat". Until it's published, that's all it is: a threat.

"Seeing as they didn't make any demands in that press release, I think they're seeking media hype rather than attempting extortion."

That's precisely what's so silly. They could get the identical amount of attention by just publishing it, rather than threatening to, and inviting some kind of harsh intervention.

Re:Only in Italy... (3, Insightful)

icebraining (1313345) | about 3 years ago | (#36881170)

This lasts longer - they get the attention due to the threat, and due to the actual release.

Re:Only in Italy... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36880946)

Wan't Assange doing the same [blogspot.com] ?

Re:Only in Italy... (1)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | about 3 years ago | (#36881010)

"Wan't Assange doing the same?"

No. It wasn't the same at all.

Re:Only in Italy... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36881220)

Um, yeah, it kind of was.

Re:Only in Italy... (1)

flimflammer (956759) | about 3 years ago | (#36881244)

That particular instance may not be exactly the same but Wikileaks has been following this pattern for a long, long time. Drumming up hype and keeping it in the news until the inevitable payoff.

Re:Only in Italy... (1)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | about 3 years ago | (#36881346)

I won't argue with that. But if these folks want to be WikiLeaks, they have to straighten up their act a little.

First off, I would try to establish at least SOME sort of credentials as a "journalistic" or "news" source, as opposed to "a kid in his mother's basement" source. I'm not saying that can't be a source of legitimate news! But it should be an established source of news FIRST. For self-protection.

Second (AFAIK they did not do this, but others have): don't try to blackmail actions out of somebody in exchange for not releasing the information. Extortion is extortion. The laws are pretty clear. Which means:

If you say you are going to release the information, then you'd better release it, or else (a) you lose all credibility, and (b) somebody might try to hold you responsible for extortion after all.

Which is why I say (c) they should dump the information and be done with it, until they get a bit more sophisticated and can protect themselves.

Re:Only in Italy... (1)

Xest (935314) | about 3 years ago | (#36881588)

"But it should be an established source of news FIRST. For self-protection."

Right, because that worked out so well for Assange, who when he fell out with his media partners such as the NYT and The Guardian started attacking his character? Sorry no, the established press has shown itself irresponsible and easily bought. There's no protection there, at best an illusion of it.

"Second (AFAIK they did not do this, but others have): don't try to blackmail actions out of somebody in exchange for not releasing the information. Extortion is extortion."

Yeah, except they've not tried to blackmail any actions, so extortion might be extortion, but this isn't extortion.

"If you say you are going to release the information, then you'd better release it, or else (a) you lose all credibility, and (b) somebody might try to hold you responsible for extortion after all."

Right, and that's exactly what they've said they're going to do, what's the problem exactly? Let's give them chance to release this before we start bitching at them for not releasing it shall we? We can use that argument against Wikileaks because they still haven't release the financial institution data they were saying they would a fair while ago, and so likely were just shit talking, but this lot have hardly had chance yet.

"Which is why I say (c) they should dump the information and be done with it,"

Which is what they've said they're going to do, again, what's the problem?

Re:Only in Italy... (1)

rebelwarlock (1319465) | about 3 years ago | (#36881048)

Can't tell if trolling, or commenting without having read the article.

As far as we've come with internet related technology, 8gb is still a lot of data. They need to actually sort it and make it available for download. One guy with an old laptop as the only seed of an 8gb torrent isn't going to work very well. Also, they made it clear that this is a preview of things to come. Even if you didn't click through to the pastebin, if you bothered to read the article, you would have noticed this line:

"The group has made clear that its sitting on around eight GB of stolen data and that it plans to release it all."

"Made clear", not "threatened".

I teach an ESL class you might want to attend.

Re:Only in Italy... (1)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | about 3 years ago | (#36881096)

"Can't tell if trolling, or commenting without having read the article."

Neither. I was making a comment about their stupid actions.

Look it up. If you've "made it clear" you're going to do something, but haven't actually done it, it's called a "threat". It's a pretty simple concept. Until you do it, it is nothing more than a threat.

I have a dictionary you might want to attend: "Threat: n a declaration of an intention or determination to inflict punishment, injury, etc., in retaliation for, or conditionally upon, some action or course; menace."

Is that clear enough for you?

Re:Only in Italy... (1)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | about 3 years ago | (#36881100)

Damn typos.

Re:Only in Italy... (1)

rebelwarlock (1319465) | about 3 years ago | (#36881352)

You can't attend a dictionary. A dictionary is not an event.

Re:Only in Italy... (1)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | about 3 years ago | (#36881470)

"Attend" is a bit more flexible a word than you give it credit for. It means "to give your attention to".

Re:Only in Italy... (1)

mcgrew (92797) | about 3 years ago | (#36881648)

Can't tell if [insert adverb here] trolling, or commenting without having read the article
You can't attend a dictionary. A dictionary is not an event.
I teach an ESL class you might want to attend.

I think if I was trying to learn English, I'd rather have a native speaker as an instructor.

How to Publish??? (1)

barv (1382797) | about 3 years ago | (#36880868)

Is this a case for SuperWikiLeaks?

Reason behind the attack (2)

MimeticLie (1866406) | about 3 years ago | (#36880880)

The summary (and article) say that the attack was motivated by the AntiSec movement, but the group's release [pastebin.com] has more specific claims. Namely that:

This corrupted organization gathered all the evidence from the seized property of suspected computer professional entertainers and utilized it over many years to conduct illegal operations with foreign intelligence agencies and oligarchy to facilitate their lust for power and money, they never used obtained evidence to really support ongoing investigations.

Also, it's nice to see that CNAIPIC subscribes to the "big useless video wall" [imgur.com] school of command center design. (there are also diagrams of their network architecture in that album)

Re:Reason behind the attack (2)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | about 3 years ago | (#36880934)

I really love the ergonomic excellence of this one [imgur.com] ...

"Yo. dudes, as a stopgap until you get get some sort of 3D gesture-based 'cyber-space' interface up and running, go find 6 or 8 of the l33t3st looking network monitoring programs, then run them all on a big screen at the front of the room, far enough away from all the operators that nobody can read any of the text without intense eyestrain..."

Re:Reason behind the attack (3, Insightful)

1s44c (552956) | about 3 years ago | (#36881902)

I really love the ergonomic excellence of this one [imgur.com] ...

"Yo. dudes, as a stopgap until you get get some sort of 3D gesture-based 'cyber-space' interface up and running, go find 6 or 8 of the l33t3st looking network monitoring programs, then run them all on a big screen at the front of the room, far enough away from all the operators that nobody can read any of the text without intense eyestrain..."

This is an overfunded government department. That huge video screen exists to look high tech, make managers feel good and justify their huge budget for next year.

If they had any sense they would buy two normal widescreens per desk and spend the savings on employing someone who can fix those nagios errors on the bottom right.

Re:Reason behind the attack (1)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | about 3 years ago | (#36881944)

Given that the color balance on each of the six sub-panels making up the big screen is glaringly different even in that fairly lousy photograph, they can't be too overfunded. It isn't quite as skeezy looking as an old 3-tube rear projection unit that has started to drift out of alignment; but it is still pretty dire.

Eh? No (1)

phorm (591458) | about 3 years ago | (#36883752)

Actually, if you're running a system monitoring app, having a big screen in your monitoring/operations center does have an important purpose.

Most monitoring systems use some form of color-coded status, so green=good, red=bad. Now if your one of the important systems that monitoring depends on goes down (say your mail server or SMS gateway, whatever), you're not going to be getting those important alerts when stuff breaks. However, if you've still got the "big wall of status" up, then there's still a decent chance of noticing of a bunch of important stuff goes from green to red.

That assumes that you don't have a bunch of false alerts that are always red in the first place. Having the ability to acknowledge a known issue and shift it out of the alerts pool is also important,

Antisec movement is obvious false flag. (1)

elucido (870205) | about 3 years ago | (#36881070)

I mean why not just call it the "anti police" movement, or the "anti government" movement.

Who exactly benefits from an anti-sec movement? Hackers don't generally benefit from it. Users don't generally benefit from it. Who benefits from it?

If you are a hacker and a teenager, someday you'll be working in the security industry. So basically you'll be killing your job prospects if you support such a movement and you'll be making it impossible for hackers in the future to ever go legit. This is like drug dealers creating a movement to keep drugs illegal, so that their drug deals can never be regulated. It seems to not make any sense at all from the perspective of the hacker.

It makes no sense for a user to ever support this movement because what does the user gain by having their passwords cracked and shared on some russian forum? This is no better for users than Facebook sharing their private information with other corporations.

The only group that can benefit from the anti-sec movement are the high up government overlords who will decide that since there is a deliberate anti-sec movement, they must in return start a pro-sec movement. It creates an even sharper divide in the hacker community which empowers the elite government types who don't know a damn thing about computers. It's divide and rule all over again, by dividing the hacker community into black and white, and then dividing the blackhats in Anonymous into various movements some which seem to make no sense, it only creates a sort of boogyman which lawmakers can capitalize on with...

"See? We need to do something about these cyber terrorists. They are terrorists, they have a political movement now."

So now cyber crime is turned into cyber terrorism and more resources are poured into surveillance. So what is the first big move they have done to catch these anti sec types? Trojan software on every PC. FBI malware to monitor every computer for illegal activity. And how long before they use this sort of monitoring to go after copyright infringers and other low hanging fruit?

Re:Antisec movement is obvious false flag. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36881108)

This is like drug dealers creating a movement to keep drugs illegal, so that their drug deals can never be regulated. It seems to not make any sense at all from the perspective of the hacker.

Drugs being kept illegal means their value will continue high, so it is good for drug dealers (well, for the ones who don't die because of it).

Re:Reason behind the attack (1)

MichaelSmith (789609) | about 3 years ago | (#36881838)

Sounds like they want (pinky to corner of mouth) One Million Dollars!

Sunlight is the best disinfectant (5, Interesting)

TubeSteak (669689) | about 3 years ago | (#36880882)

Governments are going to have to get used to operating under a bright light as these hacks and leaks keep happening.
There's just so much sensitive information, accessible to huge numbers of people, and scattered across so many poorly secured systems.

And we have to get used to even more surveillance (0)

elucido (870205) | about 3 years ago | (#36880974)

Cryptome just released news that the FBI is trying to put surveillance software on every PC as a way to deal with anonymous criminals. http://cryptome.org/0005/fbi-trojan.pdf [cryptome.org] see for yourself.

Re:And we have to get used to even more surveillan (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36881038)

Uhm, you know I actually read that link... it
1. Doesn't say anything about installing the software on "every PC", just every PC for that person accused of a crime.
2. Was withdrawn, and replaced with a command not to use computers until the trial is complete.

It would hardly help against anonymous people, since you wouldn't know which computers to install it on beforehand.

Re:And we have to get used to even more surveillan (1)

elucido (870205) | about 3 years ago | (#36881088)

You're right, my mistake.

But this is still a move I expect the FBI to make if they haven't already.

Re:And we have to get used to even more surveillan (1)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | about 3 years ago | (#36881520)

The exact scope of use is unclear; but both "Magic Lantern [wikipedia.org] " and "CIPAV [wikipedia.org] " would arguably qualify, in terms of FBI-employed, endpoint-installed, surveillance software.

On the network side, there is a whole different set of alphabet codenames and alphabet soup. ECHELON, CALEA, Carnivore, a number of former Information Awareness Office projects(IAO itself managed to creep congress out, and was defunded; but some of its activities survive under other names), virtually anything you can buy from Narus, whatever the NSA is up to in room 641A, DCSNet, IDW, etc, etc.

A wealth of choices, really...

What about corporations? (2)

elucido (870205) | about 3 years ago | (#36881020)

Who cares about governments? Corporations write the fkn laws.

Dont wait - release it (5, Insightful)

unity100 (970058) | about 3 years ago | (#36880912)

In our time, the only ones not informed about their governments' doings are the citizens. this means, us. all the supposed enemies have capabilities to acquire information that is supposedly 'secret'. only, we, 'the people' dont.

its high time we started to learn what is being done with our taxes.

Re:Dont wait - release it (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36880994)

It's called transparency. People want and need to be informed what the government is doing, otherwise it's no longer a democracy. But, the bureaucrats that reach those positions don't want to make their actions visible, because they'd have to claim responsibility for them, both the good things and the bad. This is especially bad for them; since their primary goals is advancement, gaining more money and power, which in turn means they've received those positions for their connections, not skills or experience.

Here comes 2010-2011 the age of information. We have hackers and whistle-blowers, both good and bad, intelligent and stupid, well intentioned and malevolent, regardless, what they're doing is wrong, but on a higher level, it points out to the common citizens that something is really wrong with their government. Well, they've done their job, we see the crimes, the fuckups and so on, the question is, what will we do about it?

Re:Dont wait - release it (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36881086)

The US isn't a democracy, last I checked it was technically a "representative republic". So of course the representatives get what they want. You could petition to switch to a "direct democracy", but that just has other problems (like letting bigots vote directly on race issues, etc.). Nothing is perfect.

Re:Dont wait - release it (-1)

Gaygirlie (1657131) | about 3 years ago | (#36881266)

Nothing is perfect.

Incorrect: I am perfect.

Re:Dont wait - release it (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36881312)

But are you a thing as well?

Re:Dont wait - release it (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36883224)

Sorry, I would wager that this has always been the case - technology or not, governments have long since been trying to prevent the public knowing their internal dealings and the spies of other nations have known more than the public of the nation they are spying on. I doubt this will change any time soon, especially when the governments of said nations have dozens of methods of distraction at their disposal.

Pre-release announcements (5, Funny)

subreality (157447) | about 3 years ago | (#36880962)

Pre-release announcements are *getting old*. Please save it for when you have something that's going to be really earthshaking. The Pope rape tapes. Oswald's gunsight cam. The Illuminati's member list. Proof that not only does God exist, but he's being detained in Gitmo.

Y'know, shit that could start a war.

For anything else, please just post the torrent already, okay?

In Italy you cannot steal data. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36881054)

Just a little note, before you go on with the jokes about our unprotected critical infrastructure. According to the Italian law, data cannot be stolen since the act of stealing implies that some physical object is somehow transferred. If they walked in and took a USB key the will be charged with intrusion and theft of a 15€ USB key. Copying the data falls under completely different charges like espionage, unauthorized breach in computer systems etc.

Italy... (2)

X10 (186866) | about 3 years ago | (#36881118)

It's Italy, what can you expect? A country that had a prime minister - Andreotti - who turned out to be a mobster? A country where the current prime minister owns all TV stations?

Re:Italy... (1)

ledow (319597) | about 3 years ago | (#36881134)

Better yet - one that can't organise refuse collections in Naples because the resident Mafia are the incumbent refuse collectors, and they just dump it around the country wherever they like (including commercial/toxic waste).

Naples has been up to its neck in household rubbish for a few years now, to the point where the residents are marching in front of government buildings demanding a cleanup.

Yeah, and then they vote for the mafia guy (2)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | about 3 years ago | (#36881242)

Power without accountability is a terrible thing. Police for instance has power, so they must be accountable. But voters also have great power... but how are they held accountable? How are the voters for Berlusconi held to account for their actions?

That is why democracy is flawed. In a dictatorship you only need one responsible person. In a democracy you need millions.

Re:Yeah, and then they vote for the mafia guy (1)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | about 3 years ago | (#36881546)

The problem, of course, is ensuring that the responsible person is somehow allocated the position of dictator, a fate which befalls those you would want having it with starkly limited frequency...

As for accountability in democracy, the theory is that voters are held accountable by giving them what they asked for. Good and hard.This doesn't help much in the case of majoritarian repression of a minority(which is why absolute democracies along Athenian lines fell out of favor with the Enlightenment set, and we have bills of rights and judiciaries); but the theory is that when the set of people who have power and the set of people they have power over are the same, they are automatically held accountable because they suffer the cruel fate of getting what they ask for rather than what they want...

Re:Yeah, and then they vote for the mafia guy (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36883538)

I'd rather see an athenian democracy than a representative one. A representative democracy is like a dictatorship, only difference being that there are more officials to bribe.

Hivemind NOW plz!

Re:Yeah, and then they vote for the mafia guy (1)

tehcyder (746570) | about 3 years ago | (#36881856)

Power without accountability is a terrible thing. Police for instance has power, so they must be accountable. But voters also have great power... but how are they held accountable? How are the voters for Berlusconi held to account for their actions?

That is why democracy is flawed. In a dictatorship you only need one responsible person. In a democracy you need millions.

And the flaw of dictatorship is that a single person is never flawless. Oh, let's take a guess, I suppose you are?

Re:Yeah, and then they vote for the mafia guy (1)

Nidi62 (1525137) | about 3 years ago | (#36882474)

Power without accountability is a terrible thing. Police for instance has power, so they must be accountable. But voters also have great power... but how are they held accountable? How are the voters for Berlusconi held to account for their actions?

That is why democracy is flawed. In a dictatorship you only need one responsible person. In a democracy you need millions.

They are held accountable when the people/things they irresponsibly voted for go horribly wrong. To quote someone that is rather controversial here on slashdot: "To vote is to wield authority, the supreme authority from which all other authority derives...[and] the converse of authority [is] responsibility....To permit irresponsible authority is to sow disaster...If [you vote] the impossible, the disastrous possible happens instead."

Democracy itself is not flawed, it is one of, if not the best system of government that has ever been tried. However, the issue arises when the people use their power irresponsibly, which they inevitably will. In most cases, it is not even they who pay for their irresponsibility, it is others. This can easily be seen in the US right now, with the debt crisis, the financial issues that California has had recently, etc.

Re:Italy... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36881160)

The prime minister doesn't own ALL TV station.
And there are an opposition too...
It's all a bit complicated to explain... after all the politicians are italian too and representative.

Re:Italy... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36882148)

Yeah, not just all TV but all media, newspaper, radio, internet, you name it. He's the biggest don around, a real godfather. And worse for Italy than Mussolini.

Re:Italy... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 years ago | (#36881994)

Where are you from ?
Because, of course, we have our problems in Italy, but if you were from US maybe it would be better to think about your own country
where the government is chosen by JPM and GS ... ;-)
Poor government is pretty standard today in western countries ... "From lobbies (People) to lobbies (People) and With the lobbies(People)" ;-)

if there's a Legion of Anonymous Doom... (5, Funny)

ks9208661 (1862000) | about 3 years ago | (#36881240)

...I wonder if there's a Hall of Anonymous Justice.

Re:if there's a Legion of Anonymous Doom... (1)

Larryish (1215510) | about 3 years ago | (#36883336)

Yes, there is a Hall of Anonymous Justice.

PossiblyAquaman said so.

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