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KDE 4.7.0 Released

samzenpus posted more than 3 years ago | from the get-it-while-it's-hot dept.

KDE 212

jrepin writes "KDE 4.7 releases provide many new features and improved stability and performance. Lots of visual polishing took place with an update to the Oxygen icons, and improved consistency between panel items such as clock and notification areas. The window manager KWin brings a new shadow system and can now run on OpenGL ES supporting hardware, making it better suited for mobile devices. Network management widget is much improved. Navigating through applications and recent files is easier with the addition of breadcrumbs to the Kickoff application launcher. Kontact groupware solution rejoins the rest of the KDE software, with increased stability, better connection to new services and sharing of communication information between more applications. Dolphin file manager has a cleaner default appearance. The menu bar is hidden, but easy to reach and restore. The file searching interface has been improved. Marble the virtual globe now has voice navigation support and a map creation wizard. Gwenview image viewer now offers the ability to compare two or more pictures side by side. Digikam photo management app brings face detection and recognition."

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Gnome (1)

Nerdfest (867930) | more than 3 years ago | (#36903698)

Not pulling a "Unity"? Right. Carry on then, and keep up the good work.

Re:Gnome (3, Interesting)

m2vq (2417438) | more than 3 years ago | (#36903706)

I've always liked the KDE interface better anyway. It seems more professional (even back in the 90's) while Gnome has always been somehow "childish". And this was even before Unity-time.

Re:Gnome (2)

Nerdfest (867930) | more than 3 years ago | (#36903790)

I like them both, I just found that for low resolution laptops Gnome fit better, while if I had a nice desktop with lots of space for widgets, etc, I'd probably go with KDE. As an Ubuntu user, I'm re-evaluating my options and may go with KDE or possible XFCE if Gnome 3 does not allow me the configurability I need. The ridiculous 'menu at the top' decision of Unity completely rule it out for me.

Re:Gnome (2)

spaceporn (2423004) | more than 3 years ago | (#36903914)

For me it isn't only a matter of space, I'm not that fond of widgets. Being an Ubuntu user I prefer indicators, they suit me better than any other option, and they feel less bloated. XFCE is my backup option. I still don't blame Ubuntu for Unity, though. I found myself getting used to it pretty fast. The only direction I didn't really appreciate was the one Gnome took with Shell. That said, it's good to see that KDE is being conservative about their interface.

Re:Gnome (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36904382)

Have you tried the netbook containment for KDE. It is designed for smaller screens.

You can use both (1)

dbIII (701233) | more than 3 years ago | (#36904450)

I've got a few users running on gnome with Kwin as the window manager because the window manager that comes with gnome won't beep the PC speaker and it also very badly messes up some things with some legacy applications (eg. mouse clicks don't work!).
Personally I've had the same Enlightenment desktop theme since 1997 but have E17 at home.

Re:Gnome (1)

jimmydevice (699057) | more than 3 years ago | (#36903832)

I've felt the same way, too many feet. Rather use gnome though.

Re:Gnome (2)

Osgeld (1900440) | more than 3 years ago | (#36904118)

your professional is another mans clown show

Re:Gnome (1)

ozmanjusri (601766) | more than 3 years ago | (#36904626)

your professional is another mans clown show

Or another child's Fisher Price toy [guidebookgallery.org] .

Re:Gnome (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36903834)

KDE's motd isn't "The user is a idiot" as is the case with gnome.

Re:Gnome (2)

Nate B. (2907) | more than 3 years ago | (#36903984)

Perhaps it's not as prevalent but it does exist in KDE as well. Mind that I was dedicated KDE user after 3.4 hooked me. I stuck with it until 4.4.something, or about a year ago on Debian. I installed a second video card and KDE4 lost its mind and barfed widgets, apps, and desktop backgrounds everywhere. I dumped it in short order, tried GNOME which coped better with the setup only by a matter of degree. I then gave XFCE4 a spin and it handles my Zaphod heads independent desktops like a champ. Session restoration does what I expect by putting apps back on the screen/desktop I prefer them and doesn't bork backgrounds or panels either.

The download/installation footprint of KDE these days makes it a non-starter to see if things have improved with respect to handling independent desktops. If it's working for someone else, that's great. I'm not going back.

Re:Gnome (2)

SomeKDEUser (1243392) | more than 3 years ago | (#36904166)

a) your pet bug has actually probably been fixed: there was much work on multi -desktops

b) The size of KDE?? Uhhh, it is modular now.your download is probably smaller than it ever was in the KDE3 days.

Re:Gnome (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36904130)

KDE thinks their users are idiots too. I mean, look at those GUIs. I'm not an idiot, so I don't even use X. I don't even use ncurses. I ban that shit. I'm no fucking idiot.

In reality, just because every KDE configuration menu is endlessly cluttered with endless bullshit doesn't mean it's somehow smarter or more sophisticated, especially when they use it as an excuse to make the defaults in most applications completely horrible (see: Kopete). Many of us just call it "bloat", "bad defaults", "bad design", "stupid", "a failure in usability", etc.

edit: CAPTCHA = "usably". Fitting.

Re:Gnome (2, Insightful)

siride (974284) | more than 3 years ago | (#36904182)

I keep seeing people post these kinds of attacks on KDE, yet they are never followed up with any substantial explanation of what the clutter and bloat actually is. I guess compared to GNOME, where having two checkboxes in a single window is considered advanced and confusing, KDE might look "cluttered". Personally, I like being able to actually do things with my computer. Every other OS lets you do that, why shouldn't Linux?

Re:Gnome (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36904714)

I'm no fucking idiot.

Ah. So you're the basement-dwelling kind, then.

Re:Gnome (2)

jonahbron (2278074) | more than 3 years ago | (#36904156)

In my humble opinion, it's not so much "the user is an idiot" as much as "the user doesn't need built-in functionality to change every flippin' thing via a GUI". Note though that I'm talking about Classic Gnome, not Gnome Shell: don't know much about Shell.

Disclaimer: I use Gnome.

Re:Gnome (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36904128)

Gnome never "pulled a Unity". That was Ubuntu's doing. If you're talking about GNOME 3's default interface, that was in part because the old UI was hard to maintain and they wanted a fresh base to start off on. It will improve in future released substantially if you don't like it the way it is now (Google about the list of changes in 3.2, it looks great).

Re:Gnome (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36904796)

But also not far from it.
The "The menu bar is hidden, but easy to reach and restore." gives you an idea: Why would you hide the thing in the first place??
A user having to restore all the useful but hidden-from-the-retards functions after installation, reminds me of something:
Let's say... they are pulling a "Windows". As always. :/

And then is the whole âoePlasmaâ thing, which has no fuckin' point whatsoever.
It offers you a thousand "Plasmoids", all of which offering pointless bling instead of real usefulness. Which is kinda understandable, considering that you can't see them anyway, since your actual application, with an actual use, lies over them in fullscreen at all times..

But at least it requires 695 MB just for krunner, which seems to have only two features:
1. Offer some kind of merger between the command line and a GUI widget, with the disadvantages of *both*. CLI: Disadvantage of not knowing or having to learn by heart what's available to type in, other than with a *menu*. Widget: Disadvantage of not offering an actual full CLI with scripting abilities and all.
2. Create a jumping animation of the icon of whatever you are executing. I kid you not.
Wow, that certainly needs 695 MB, doesn't it?

Of course plasma-desktop (here with a few barely useful widgets like time, calendar, weather, calculator and k-menu, all on the dashboard) takes another 717 MB,

Yes, most of it is swapped and not actually used by the program. But why allocate it in the first place then?

I am a KDE user, who only uses KDE, because Gnome is even worse... not because I would like KDE..., and because I don't want to go back to Windows 951^W^WXFCE.

Re:Gnome (1)

EsbenMoseHansen (731150) | more than 3 years ago | (#36905110)

Re hidden plasmoids: Some people prefer and use the "show desktop"-button. The rest of us puts plasmoids in the panel, where it is visible all the time (or however you like it.)

If you don't like krunner, don't use it. I find it incredible useful. I use it for math, unit conversion and program launching all the time, plus the occasional shutdown as well. For me, it's the feature of KDE I use the most, and one of the killer features.

Each major release is taking longer (2, Insightful)

thsths (31372) | more than 3 years ago | (#36903710)

Each release takes longer before it becomes useful. KDE 1.1 was working just right for me. So was KDE 2.3. KDE 3 did not really mature until 3.3 or 3.4. KDE 4 is just now getting there, after 8 minor releases. Some things are still working better in KDE 3, or in KDE 1 for that.

Don't get me wrong, I like KDE. But we are paying a huge price for "progress".

Re:Each major release is taking longer (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36903788)

It was pretty much fine at 4.3, I'm not sure what everyone is still so damn hung up on, yes yes yes we know 4.0 sucked major balls and 4.1 didn't improve much... but between 4.2 and 4.3 it was all pretty much handled aside from minor shit.

Re:Each major release is taking longer (1)

The Master Control P (655590) | more than 3 years ago | (#36904680)

Personally I'm stuck on the unbelievably, mind-warpingly horrible performance.

Half a minute to generate a few thousand .jpg thumbnails in konqueror? Dragon player sputtering and dropping frames on a 640x480 video? It doesn't even seem to be exclusive to multimedia. The entire qt4 framework is so shockingly slow it's unbelievable... Every damned release they keep saying "performance is even better" and yet the instant I moved any window, the screen slowed to a slideshow for an appreciable fraction of a second while it apparently dug something out of cache.

I've since installed xfce4 and never looked back. KDE is basically unusable on a 2.7Ghz dual core Athlon2 and has been since 4.x came out... I'm not joking when I say that xfce4 is more responsive on a 15 year old SGI Indy on than KDE is on my normal desktop, despite having 1/50 the CPU power, 1/30 the memory and a 2MB framebuffer graphics card.

The only part of kde4 that I've ever missed is the "mouse mark" applet.

Re:Each major release is taking longer (1)

EsbenMoseHansen (731150) | more than 3 years ago | (#36905136)

Yet other people report stellar performance on low-ends, so it's not clear-cut what is going on --- it could be a defective driver, some application going haywire on you, or a distro problem. I don't own a low-end computer (an Athlon64 is my current lowest-end), and on these KDE works just fine. The 1Gb RAM machine is struggling with the number of facebook tabs my wife wants to put on it, though.

Re:Each major release is taking longer (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36903900)

Each release takes longer before it becomes useful. KDE 1.1 was working just right for me. So was KDE 2.3. KDE 3 did not really mature until 3.3 or 3.4. KDE 4 is just now getting there, after 8 minor releases. Some things are still working better in KDE 3, or in KDE 1 for that.

Don't get me wrong, I like KDE. But we are paying a huge price for "progress".

You are going to have to name something which you think is "still working better in KDE 3", because from an objective perspective KDE SC 4 stomps all over KDE 3, and has done so for quite some time now.

BTW, progress is rampant in KDE SC 4, and it is absolutely stalled in KDE 3.

Re:Each major release is taking longer (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36903924)

BTW, progress is rampant in KDE SC 4, and it is absolutely stalled in KDE 3.

Maybe that has to do with KDE SC stopping all development on it in favor of a total (and at the time only partially functional) rewrite? Nah, that can't be.

Re:Each major release is taking longer (1)

siride (974284) | more than 3 years ago | (#36904158)

It was three and a half years ago. Get over it.

Re:Each major release is taking longer (1)

Lord Kano (13027) | more than 3 years ago | (#36904580)

It was three and a half years ago. Get over it.

Count me in his camp. KDE4 is poop. I still use KDE 3.5, the Trinity KDE project is proof enough that a substantial minority of KDE users feel as we do.

I dispute the notion that it's "progress" to copy what everyone else is doing, but implement it with your own little twist.

Re:Each major release is taking longer (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36904636)

I dispute the notion that KDE4 is poop. I dispute the notion that there is a single, solitary thing about Trinity KDE that is better in any way than KDE4.

Re:Each major release is taking longer (2, Insightful)

fast turtle (1118037) | more than 3 years ago | (#36903980)

Did they return the multiple desktop and individual backgrounds? Locking Apps to specific Desktops?

No they haven't and they're still pushing Dolphin as the File manager instead of sticking with Konq, which worked quite well for that and browsing the web. Hell I found it quite useful when accessing an ftp site that I had write privs as it allowed me to simply copy files from the system to the server.

As a 3.5 user, I would have preferred them to simply bug fix and transition 3.5 over to QT4. Some of the restructuring was needed but the complete change to the UI was totally unneeded. Instead they had to copy MS and Vista and loose the one feature that made KDE stand out for me, which was the configurable desktops, background images and locking apps to specific desktops.

Re:Each major release is taking longer (0)

elfprince13 (1521333) | more than 3 years ago | (#36904126)

You should try OS X. We have these nifty things called Spaces. They don't have background images per desktop, but locking apps to a desktop (or set of desktops) is easy.

Re:Each major release is taking longer (1)

SomeKDEUser (1243392) | more than 3 years ago | (#36904214)

Spaces is a terrible implementation of multiple desktops. As for binding apps to desktops, kwin allows you to set rules which will force apps to launch in a specified desktop.

Also, you can have an activity per desktop, and thus a background per desktop.

The parent has clearly not used KDE for 3 years, and has no clue what he is talking about.

Re:Each major release is taking longer (1)

Freultwah (739055) | more than 3 years ago | (#36905270)

Spaces is a terrible implementation of multiple desktops.

And you back your claims how exactly? Or is it just sufficient to blurt something out?

I switched from KDE 3.5.x to OS X 10.6 on the desktop at the end of 2007. Save a few glitches with Microsoft apps, there was absolutely nothing about Spaces that came up short in any way compared to KDE. Things have only got better since.

Re:Each major release is taking longer (1)

colinrichardday (768814) | more than 3 years ago | (#36904136)

I have multiple desktops with individual backgrounds. It also appears that I can lock apps to a desktop (icon->advanced->special applications settings). But I agree with you on Dolphin.

This is on KDE 4.6.

Re:Each major release is taking longer (3, Informative)

ManTaboo (2027174) | more than 3 years ago | (#36904154)

How about settings>Workspace Behaviour>Virtual Desktops>Different Widgets for Each Desktop...It's that easy!

Re:Each major release is taking longer (1)

ftobin (48814) | more than 3 years ago | (#36904298)

Thank you for posting this. I'm not sure if you were trying to be sarcastic, but it's certainly non-obvious how to achieve different wallpapers for each desktop.

Re:Each major release is taking longer (1)

ManTaboo (2027174) | more than 3 years ago | (#36904346)

I agree that it is not 'completely' obvious. I wasn't trying to be sarcastic, I was simply stating that the functionality is in deed there

Re:Each major release is taking longer (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36905284)

The main thing is that I got rid of my virtual desktops and replaced them with activities.

The activities directly allows different wallpapers, plasmoids and so on.
They just are virtual desktops on steroids...

Re:Each major release is taking longer (1)

AvitarX (172628) | more than 3 years ago | (#36904516)

I bet it's even easier if you search "desktop" or maybe "backgrround" in the settingds app.

I though kde4 was ok from 4.3, and 4.6 was the first that was really good (no crashes on my laptop, or graphical curuption).

I am willing to bet with the new changes it's now really good (clean up of open gl).

Re:Each major release is taking longer (2)

visualight (468005) | more than 3 years ago | (#36904228)

At first you could still use konqueror as a file manager but then they "fixed" it so that konqueror just uses the same kpart as dolphin. And it sucks. Doesn't refresh half the time and when it does it flashes your focus back to the top. Konqeror didn't do that and I loved it.

Konqueror has always sucked as a dedicated web browser though. I've always wondered why they killed the best file browser ever made in favor of the worst web browser ever made

Re:Each major release is taking longer (1)

AvitarX (172628) | more than 3 years ago | (#36904532)

I've always loved dolphin for it's speed and obvious dual panes, and wondered why all other file browsers feel slow and sucky.

Re:Each major release is taking longer (1)

TheABomb (180342) | more than 3 years ago | (#36904478)

All of this, and ksirtet.

Re:Each major release is taking longer (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36904486)

Did they return the multiple desktop and individual backgrounds? Locking Apps to specific Desktops?

No they haven't and they're still pushing Dolphin as the File manager instead of sticking with Konq, which worked quite well for that and browsing the web. Hell I found it quite useful when accessing an ftp site that I had write privs as it allowed me to simply copy files from the system to the server.

As a 3.5 user, I would have preferred them to simply bug fix and transition 3.5 over to QT4. Some of the restructuring was needed but the complete change to the UI was totally unneeded. Instead they had to copy MS and Vista and loose the one feature that made KDE stand out for me, which was the configurable desktops, background images and locking apps to specific desktops.

"Activities" is all about setting up specific Apps, shortcuts, folder views, desktop icons, widgets, etc etc to specific named activities. One can then set up a specific activity to a specific desktop.

http://maketecheasier.com/use-kde-plasma-activities/2010/09/01

By default, all virtual desktops operate on the same activity and look identical. If you add a widget on desktop 1, it will be the same on 2, 3, and 4. Similarly, icons, panels, and anything else you add will all be the same. With activities, however, you can separate each desktop into truly independent workspaces.

To have a unique activity for each desktop:

1.Open System Settings
2.Under the “Workspace Appearance and Behavior” section, click “Window Behavior”
3.Click the “Virtual Desktops” icon.
4.In the Layout section, check “Different widgets for each desktop”
5.Click “Apply”.

After you have enabled this feature, you can add unique icons, widgets, and wallpapers to each individual desktop.

Dolphin works perfectly well with ftp sites, sftp sites and even online code management systems.

http://kde.org/announcements/4.7/applications.php

Dolphin, KDE’s file manager, has a cleaner default appearance. The menu bar is hidden, but easy to reach and restore. The file searching interface has been improved. In addition, Dolphin now has much deeper integration with source code management systems, including the ability to create and clone repositories, push and pull changes, view diffs and much more.

KDE 3.5.x was essentially broken, parts of it such as the aRts sound server are no longer maintained. There was a problem maintaining KDE 3.5.x that went well beyond just Qt4.

There is no part of the KDE UI, AFAIK, that is not at least retained capability from KDE 3.5.x, and much of the desktop UI is vastly improved.

Re:Each major release is taking longer (5, Informative)

tick-tock-atona (1145909) | more than 3 years ago | (#36904742)

Did they return the multiple desktop and individual backgrounds? Locking Apps to specific Desktops?

Yes [kde.org] .

No they haven't and they're still pushing Dolphin as the File manager instead of sticking with Konq, which worked quite well for that and browsing the web. Hell I found it quite useful when accessing an ftp site that I had write privs as it allowed me to simply copy files from the system to the server.

Yes they have. Konqeror is still there, and can be set as the default file manager if you want.

As a 3.5 user, I would have preferred them to simply bug fix and transition 3.5 over to QT4. Some of the restructuring was needed but the complete change to the UI was totally unneeded. Instead they had to copy MS and Vista and loose the one feature that made KDE stand out for me, which was the configurable desktops, background images and locking apps to specific desktops.

As I said, all these features are available, accessible, and are arguably better than they were in KDE 3. I honestly don't know how you haven't been able to discover them.

Re:Each major release is taking longer (1)

EsbenMoseHansen (731150) | more than 3 years ago | (#36905182)

How the heck could KDE4(.0) copy Vista?

As for your desktop woes, I think your problem is that you are using Desktop for the usecase Activities were designed to. If you instead of multiple desktop use multiple activities, you can have your wallpapers and your application configured per activity. As a bonus, you could even have some application on more than one (or all) activities, if that makes sense for you.

Re:Each major release is taking longer (0)

Lord Kano (13027) | more than 3 years ago | (#36903926)

IMHO, KDE peaked with 3.5.x. I haven't had any interest at all in 4.x. I tried a few releases but I got so tired with being disappointed that I just said to hell with it, so I went to Trinity KDE.

LK

Re:Each major release is taking longer (3, Interesting)

SomeKDEUser (1243392) | more than 3 years ago | (#36904230)

But thankfully, the KDE devs are not wedded to the 90s, and those of us who want a modern desktop still get one. Isn't free software wonderful?

Also, you say you tried a few releases. my guess is you haven't tries in a year. Which is an enormous amount of dev time. So you maybe should keep trying :)

Re:Each major release is taking longer (0)

Lord Kano (13027) | more than 3 years ago | (#36904462)

Fortunately, some devs are more concerned with doing what works instead of following the herd. Yes Free Software is great.

The KDE team lost me two years ago. I don't care what they're doing now. If I wanted everything I did to feel like I was using a cell phone, I'd buy an iPad.

LK

Re:Each major release is taking longer (1, Insightful)

SomeKDEUser (1243392) | more than 3 years ago | (#36904618)

Uhhh. Nope, that is GNOME (or apple). KDE still has a desktop which feels like a desktop. The mobile/tablet thing is just an option: on a small screen, I prefer the UI designed for it, and on large screens, the classical desktop UI.

I also note that although you haven't tried the desktop in two years, you still feel justified in saying horrible things about the work people are doing for free. I guess the recent article about people behaving like psychopaths on the internet was not too far off the mark.

BTW, you may criticize, this is your freedom, and makes for good debate. You may even say "two years ago, I thought it sucked". But it is dishonest to say it still suck when you could not be bothered to try. Presumably because you derive joy in being cruel to people you have never met because of a perceived slight you received years ago. About a computer programme you got for free.

Re:Each major release is taking longer (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36904470)

Ahhh...Trinity KDE. It reminds me of when I gave a shit about KDE, back before the 4.x crap!

Clueless. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36904552)

You really have no idea what you are talking about. You are essentially parroting the argument that Mac OS X was imaginary “progress,” as you imply, because it was feature incomplete compared to Mac OS 9. The reality is: future development could not be made on the existing platform. The same is true with KDE. The programming models and APIs found in the three series (Qt included) were insufficient for the demands designers would place on it.

Bottom line: sometimes, in engineering, you have to cast-off bad decisions and make fresh ones with the benefit of hindsight.

Wireless system connections (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36903716)

Did they fix the disabled checkbox in Knetworkmanager for setting a wireless connection as system? Because I've been waiting for that one since ... 6 years ago? Longer? Because quite frankly, I could care less if the shadow system is improved or the icons have more lens flare on them. User experience is ruined by not being able to do something basic like set up an always on wireless connection out-of-the-box without resorting to installing additional packages and configuration file hacking.

Re:Wireless system connections (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36903822)

Did they fix the disabled checkbox in Knetworkmanager for setting a wireless connection as system? Because I've been waiting for that one since ... 6 years ago? Longer? Because quite frankly, I could care less if the shadow system is improved or the icons have more lens flare on them. User experience is ruined by not being able to do something basic like set up an always on wireless connection out-of-the-box without resorting to installing additional packages and configuration file hacking.

You are kidding, right? Wireless connections are inherently portable and therefore transient, they are not always available. This is in fact the whole point of a wireless connection, that it is NOT always on.

If you want an always on connection, plug in a network cable, so that it is always on.

Re:Wireless system connections (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36903880)

So that's a no then? Instead of fixing the broken box (something that has just WORKED on Gnome since forever, by the way) - the KDE fix is "plug in a network cable".

Re:Wireless system connections (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36904184)

So that's a no then? Instead of fixing the broken box (something that has just WORKED on Gnome since forever, by the way) - the KDE fix is "plug in a network cable".

I didn't say it was "No" ... I said only that wireless is intended to be a transitory connection, it dpends if you happen to be within 100-odd feet of a particular wireless router or not. It is not normally available until after a given desktop user logs on, even in Windows.

There is no penalty for this. If you need network drives to be mounted via a transitory wireless network connection, just run smb4k in the system tray after you login. Set up smb4k to see your network drives, then include it in auto-started applications. It will work exactly the same as the equivalent of network drives over wireless as in Windows.

Re:Wireless system connections (1)

bmo (77928) | more than 3 years ago | (#36903896)

Some people can't run wires through walls.

Grow up.

--
BMO

Re:Wireless system connections (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36904946)

he has a point.. wireless connections are NOT reliable.

Re:Wireless system connections (1)

bill_mcgonigle (4333) | more than 3 years ago | (#36903956)

You are kidding, right? Wireless connections are inherently portable and therefore transient, they are not always available. This is in fact the whole point of a wireless connection, that it is NOT always on.

No, the point is that you don't need a wire. You do realize that some people have their entire homes/offices setup with wireless as they don't need to run wires and wireless is fast enough for then, right?

Perhaps you only use laptops with wireless connections, but your use case does not describe the broader market.

Re:Wireless system connections (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36904294)

You are kidding, right? Wireless connections are inherently portable and therefore transient, they are not always available. This is in fact the whole point of a wireless connection, that it is NOT always on.

No, the point is that you don't need a wire. You do realize that some people have their entire homes/offices setup with wireless as they don't need to run wires and wireless is fast enough for then, right?

Perhaps you only use laptops with wireless connections, but your use case does not describe the broader market.

I don't know if the updates to the KDE network manager in KDE SC 4.7 now allows a wireless connection to be defined as the system network connection, or not.

If one's use case absolutely requires wireless networking to be running before any user logs on, and setting this up has not been enabled in the KDE network manager, why not simply install and use the GNOME network manager?

http://jeffhoogland.blogspot.com/2010/04/howto-use-gnome-network-manager-in.html

A lot of people like to make mountains out of molehills, it seems.

Re:Wireless system connections (2)

layer3switch (783864) | more than 3 years ago | (#36903964)

This is in fact the whole point of a wireless connection, that it is NOT always on.

You mean like cellphone, wireless keyboard and mouse and of course GPS. You really nailed it. /sarcasm

Re:Wireless system connections (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36904028)

You are kidding, right? Wireless connections are inherently portable and therefore transient, they are not always available. This is in fact the whole point of a wireless connection, that it is NOT always on.

If you want an always on connection, plug in a network cable, so that it is always on.

1. A very good troll
2. Clueless

You are one of these two.

Re:Wireless system connections (1)

jonahbron (2278074) | more than 3 years ago | (#36904070)

that it is NOT always on.

Kind of like a network cable, right? They can be disconnected FYI.

Re:Wireless system connections (2)

ManTaboo (2027174) | more than 3 years ago | (#36904220)

I thought the whole point of a wireless connection was for mobility and convenience. The fact of the matter is knetworkmanager was a fail when 4.0 was released imho. I had nothing but issues with it on 3 out of the 4 machines I run. Shortly after I discovered wicd and never looked back. It may require a little more configuration depending on your needs, but I have no problems with it period!

Re:Wireless system connections (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36904338)

You are kidding, right? Wireless connections are inherently portable and therefore transient, they are not always available. This is in fact the whole point of a wireless connection, that it is NOT always on.

If you want an always on connection, plug in a network cable, so that it is always on.

I know better than you and you're going to take it up the ass like I want it!

You wouldn't happen to be a GNOME developer would you?

Re:Wireless system connections (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36904504)

You are kidding, right? Wireless connections are inherently portable and therefore transient, they are not always available. This is in fact the whole point of a wireless connection, that it is NOT always on.

If you want an always on connection, plug in a network cable, so that it is always on.

I know better than you and you're going to take it up the ass like I want it!

You wouldn't happen to be a GNOME developer would you?

Apparently you missed the part where this was an issue in KDE that doesn't exist in GNOME.

Re:Wireless system connections (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36904718)

You are kidding, right? Wireless connections are inherently portable and therefore transient, they are not always available. This is in fact the whole point of a wireless connection, that it is NOT always on.

If you want an always on connection, plug in a network cable, so that it is always on.

I know better than you and you're going to take it up the ass like I want it!

You wouldn't happen to be a GNOME developer would you?

Apparently you missed the part where this was an issue in KDE that doesn't exist in GNOME.

KDE can use any of several network managers, including wicd and GNOME network manager, if one wants to. Unlike GNOME, KDE is not "exclusive". It isn't a "KDE issue" at all, it is a minor capability of the default (but replaceable) network manager in KDE4 that has not been functional in previous releases of KDE4. I don't know if it is fixed yet, or not, but if the default KDE network manager doesn't suit anyone's particular needs, just replace it for goodness sake!

Re:Wireless system connections (1)

EsbenMoseHansen (731150) | more than 3 years ago | (#36905276)

Try searching their bugzilla.. in this case, that would give you bug 204340, which is indeed fixed and should be part of 4.7.

Re:Wireless system connections (1)

colinrichardday (768814) | more than 3 years ago | (#36904170)

Did they fix the disabled checkbox in Knetworkmanager for setting a wireless connection as system?

No, it appears not, as the box is grayed out, at least in 4.6.

Re:Wireless system connections (1)

SomeKDEUser (1243392) | more than 3 years ago | (#36904252)

ifup is the way to go for permanent connections at the system level. Networkmanager is crappy for multi-user systems anyway.

Now if you are a single user, well, what is wrong with "connect automatically"??

Re:Wireless system connections (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36905106)

Did they fix the disabled checkbox in Knetworkmanager for setting a wireless connection as system? Because I've been waiting for that one since ... 6 years ago? Longer? Because quite frankly, I could care less if the shadow system is improved or the icons have more lens flare on them. User experience is ruined by not being able to do something basic like set up an always on wireless connection out-of-the-box without resorting to installing additional packages and configuration file hacking.

No clue why it is hard for people to answer the question that was asked directly instead of going off on a tangent, but then again... Anyhow, here is a good source on why that is the case for some people:

http://lamarque-lvs.blogspot.com/2011/07/some-clarifications-about-plasma-nm.html

Search for "system connection" if you do not want to read through the whole article.

Is this a production release or another alpha? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36903856)

The last time that I tried KDE was when they released their 4.0 release. As it turned out, "4.0" meant "release 4, alpha 1".

Is it safe to use KDE in a production environment yet? Can you do things like surf the *internet* or rotate a cube of workspaces?

Re:Is this a production release or another alpha? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36903986)

Yes.

Re:Is this a production release or another alpha? (1)

siride (974284) | more than 3 years ago | (#36904168)

Short answer: yes. Longer answer: yeah, it's pretty usable, actually seems more polished and complete than KDE 3.5 was. I was a hold-out, too, lest you accuse me of being some KDE 4 fanboi.

yeah whatever (1)

For a Free Internet (1594621) | more than 3 years ago | (#36903882)

I use LINUX not KDE. Because I am an 31337 Hacker! Linuex is amuch morepowerful and versatile operating system than KDE, GNoME or Python.

GTK integration? (1)

Nutria (679911) | more than 3 years ago | (#36903898)

How's that coming?

As a Firefox user who's children love Flash games, that's a /sine qua non/.

Re:GTK integration? (1)

bill_mcgonigle (4333) | more than 3 years ago | (#36903946)

As a Firefox user who's children love Flash games, that's a /sine qua non/.

What doesn't work for you? My daughter plays flash games on my home PC, which is Fedora 14 w/ KDE 4.6 and Firefox. I use the leigh123linux repo for Flash updates.

Re:GTK integration? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36903990)

Fedora? lol

Re:GTK integration? (1)

Nutria (679911) | more than 3 years ago | (#36904296)

What doesn't work for you?

Nothing, since I use GNOME 2.32. But v3.0 and (since I use Ubuntu) Unity approacheth.

It's been a long time (Mandrake 7.0) since I used KDE, but ever since then I've consistently read of theming and font problems mixing GTK and KDE apps.

Re:GTK integration? (1)

bill_mcgonigle (4333) | more than 3 years ago | (#36904526)

I guess I don't notice them. There's an optional thing you can install to force KDE font preferences onto GTK apps, if you want the consistency. I don't think I've installed that on a new machine in a while though.

Re:GTK integration? (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36904114)

How's that coming?

As a Firefox user who's children love Flash games, that's a /sine qua non/.

Integration of GNOME/GTK+ applications in KDE is very good.

http://kde.org/announcements/4.7/plasma.php

Recognizing the modular nature of KDE software and the ability to mix and match applications from many different sources, KDE has also improved the Oxygen GTK themes, making applications from GNOME (and other applications using GTK+) blend seamlessly with KDE applications in your Plasma Workspace.

It would be fair to say that integration of GNOME/GTK+ applications under the KDE SC 4.7 Plasma desktop is orders of magnitude better than integration of KDE applications under the GNOME desktop of any variety.

Re:GTK integration? (4, Insightful)

siride (974284) | more than 3 years ago | (#36904176)

Don't forget QtCurve, which I find to be considerably better than the ugly and garish Oxygen theme.

Re:GTK integration? (1)

RobbieThe1st (1977364) | more than 3 years ago | (#36904232)

Seconded!
Personally though, I like the clearlooks/cleanlooks style to be better than both, but...

Also, I run a very mixed desktop - half KDE, half GTK apps on top of a KDE desktop, with Metacity for my window manager. How more mixed could you get? :P

Re:GTK integration? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36904802)

Don't forget QtCurve, which I find to be considerably better than the ugly and garish Oxygen theme.

I find Oxygen to be perfectly fine, except for the indistinct "active title bar". With the Oxygen theme by default the active title bar is the same colour as the active window border. There is a setting obscurely called called "highlight window title" which fixes this, however.

Re:GTK integration? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36904330)

Pretty good - there is a gtk-oxygen theme that renders gtk2 (gtk3 in next version) widgets identical to kde-oxygen. 1.1 is released to go with KDE 4.7 which gets the animations close to identical and makes changes to colours etc work in gtk immediately using dbus. Appart from the file open/save dialogs I can't really tell if an application is GTK or KDE these days.
http://hugo-kde.blogspot.com/

If you don't like oxygen (the default KDE style) then QTCurve has a corresponding GTK style that works quite well.

Quit whining (5, Insightful)

pinkeen (1804300) | more than 3 years ago | (#36904084)

There will always be something that doesn't work as it should or as you would like it to be. KDE 4 is a stable, solid desktop environment. I used KDE as my day-to-day working dekstop since 3.x. I jumped the wagon when they ironed out showstoppers in SC4 and don't look back.

BTW I wonder why there is so much complaining about KDE when it comes to some minor features? Such scale is unseen in windows world. Maybe windows users don't complain so much because ms doesn't care about fixing and improving things anyway? Here you can discuss and have things fixed or even redesigned in a matter of weeks or months.

Re:Quit whining (3, Insightful)

RobbieThe1st (1977364) | more than 3 years ago | (#36904254)

Isn't there an old quote that states that when soldiers stop complaining, they've lost hope(or something like that?

It's exactly that here: With KDE, it's possible to make change happen. Windows? No way!
So, people complain. Because it might get better.

Re:Quit whining (2)

SomeKDEUser (1243392) | more than 3 years ago | (#36904300)

It is a mystery to me too. Even the mac users who obsess about the tiniest details of their holy interface are not nearly as anal as the kde3-or-death users.

And it makes particularly little sense as KDE SC4 is better in pretty much every way as KDE3. Maybe is comes from investing so much emotion in your desktop and being shown that deep down, at was not nearly as great as it could be. Perhaps linux users care more about their software than normal users, and any change is seen as a personal insult.

KDE (0)

jonahbron (2278074) | more than 3 years ago | (#36904102)

Everything about it still looks like it was designed by a developer, IMHO. Maybe I just need to really try it and get used to it. So much gray though...

kick ass (0, Flamebait)

Osgeld (1900440) | more than 3 years ago | (#36904110)

polished icons as the number 1 improvement, this will be worth the pain!

Good Job guys really burning the midnight oil on that one

Re:kick ass (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36904644)

I didn't see "polished icons" listed as a number 1 improvement. I found a page saying there was updates to the Oxygen theme but I didn't find it a worthy of cynicism.

I agree though in general that I'm sick of hearing about improvements to icons and themes. Once the quality is there is at a certain level, it doesn't matter anymore and the desktop devs need to stop touting such things. It's lateral change because it just boils down to what one graphics artist thought looked better than another graphics artists. This is a largely an aesthetics-based change... meaning improving nothing quantitatively.

Starting to get out of hand! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36904152)

This whole Linux desktop thing is starting to get out of hand! You've got Unity and Gnome 3 gearing up for netbooks and tablets. Does Ubuntu and Gnome.org honestly feel that users are going to un-install Win 7 for something like what they have to offer? Do they feel manufacturers are going to buy into it and start shipping Linux machines? As long as KDE remembers it's desktop users it's fine other wise I think they'll have a rough time like Gnome.

Re:Starting to get out of hand! (1)

RobbieThe1st (1977364) | more than 3 years ago | (#36904282)

Some mfgrs will. Why? Because it's generally loads better than Windows on underperforming hardware. Sure, gaming performance might be a little less, and benchmarks might not show it, but as far as overall responsiveness, Linux beats Windows any day.
Also, if Meego takes off, there will be an opportunity to throw a KDE or Gnome front-end on your Meego tablet, either aftermarket or stock. And it just might be an improvement there.

Please widen kde.org! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36904530)

For the love of god, I am so sick of websites catering to the iPad's portrait format and limiting horizontal resolution to 800 pixels(or whatever). I have a 1080p monitor and I can fit two kde.org websites into it horizontally.

Re:Please widen kde.org! (1)

MikeUW (999162) | more than 3 years ago | (#36904954)

It may surprise you to know that the majority of the world [w3schools.com] is not yet using 1080p monitors.

That said...nobody's forcing you to view every page fullscreen. Also, with a near-1080p monitor myself, I could care less if the screen is filled entirely from left-to-right. That actually reduces readability of most text.

Ever see a newspaper print its text all the way accross the page? No, they use many smaller columns to break-up the text. Since the website is not printed on paper, it's somewhat irrelevant if there's blank space on the sides.

Aside from all that...what the heck does this have to do with the release of 4.7?

Best Distro to try this new KDE with? (1)

Lord of the Fries (132154) | more than 3 years ago | (#36904620)

So let's say I did a lot of Linux back in the day, now days, I do it rarely under vmware with OSX. I've been installing (k)Ubuntu now and then again. What's the best KDE friendly distro these days (running under vmware)?

Re:Best Distro to try this new KDE with? (1)

nzac (1822298) | more than 3 years ago | (#36904732)

Most distros support KDE well enough that it does not matter. Make your decision depending on what you want

openSUSE supposedly is pretty good for KDE (i run gnome) from what it see it has pretty good visualisation support (used with WMware often).

You will have to at least upgrade to tumbleweed (like testing) or factory (sid) to get 4.7 before November I suspect though.

Re:Best Distro to try this new KDE with? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36904924)

OpenSuSe, PCLinuxOS, Mandriva, Slackware, Sabayon, Chakra, MEPIS, Mageia then Kubuntu (in order of Distrowatch page rankings) are the Linux distributions which ship KDE4 by default. Arch is neutral, and it gives a fairly good cutting-edge KDE installation.

The KDE SC is the KDE SC, it is pretty much the same on any of these distributions. The KDE Plasma desktop is highly configurable, so the default configuration which ships with each distribution is not much of an issue. Choose between them based on their repository/package manager/number of packages/distribution arrangements which best suit you. For example, if your ISP has a locally-hosted un-metered repository for OpenSuSe, PCLinuxOS, Mandriva and Kubuntu distribution packages, as my ISP does, but not the others, then this would influence your choice.

I have heard that Linux Mint is preparing a KDE4/Debian rolling-release variant. This also could be a good option for many people.

Re:Best Distro to try this new KDE with? (1)

markdueck (796208) | more than 3 years ago | (#36904776)

I've used openSuse for 3 years - from kde 3.5 -> 4.2 till now. Just got a Sandy Bridge laptop with an i7 and Kubuntu is the only distro that runs acceptable, but as soon as suse 12.1 is out, I'm switching back. there's no comparison in the professionalism of these 2 distros. Maybe it's more a being used to, but everyday I have points that irk me about kubuntu. The only other distro I would like to try some is Fedora, but there KDE is not the default, so have lower hopes for it being as good as openSuse.

Re:Best Distro to try this new KDE with? (1)

Beelzebud (1361137) | more than 3 years ago | (#36904814)

Slackware is a great KDE distro. If Slackware scares you off, try the KDE edition of Mint.

How is it with the tablet+stylus ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36904862)

Anyone with a thinkpad convertible or similar? If you don't mind sharing your experiences with this KDE...

Personal review. (1)

Gravis Zero (934156) | more than 3 years ago | (#36905096)

i've been on Gnome a while and have seen KDE advance. Plasma seemed particularly interesting and how they integrated apps seemed cool. today i tried KDE again and now i'm back in Gnome 2.x writing this.

complaints:

my biggest complaint is that they took away the desktop icons. it's a big deal. i have files on my desktop that are fast and easy to access and they took those away from me! i searched a good half our trying to find how to restore them but low and behold, it's not just a configuration, they removed that functionality completely. if you are about to say, "hey! you cant criticize, Gnome 3 does that too!" i would like to reiterate i'm using Gnome 2.x for that same reason.

it's graphics accelerated but not snappy. i expected since the graphic render system is offloaded that it would be super snappy but alas, it is NOT! opening a new file manager window or any thing else took a second, sitting there with a "busy" cursor. before you blame my hard drive, please know that i have a very high-speed SSD (cost me an arm but talked them down so i could keep the leg). even Gnome's file manager (Nautilus) renders faster and it's no slimline file manager.

one annoying thing is the file manager's configuration fragmentation. in the file manager, you can right click lots of different things and configure them but not everything. it's really annoying to have to open eight different configuration windows instead of just one with a well organized system for configuring everything in the file manager.

setting up widgets in the panels can be a little clumsy trying to put a widget between two others and i hope that will be addressed.

conclusion:

it's pretty but it can be frustrating to use. it's not ready for general consumption.

and please dont tell me KDE is for "advanced users and not you, noob!" or some BS because i've been on the Linux scene over a decade using everything from kernel configuration frontends to IDEs to that damn fish applet. i know what i'm talking about.

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