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GE Bets On Holographic Optical Storage

samzenpus posted more than 2 years ago | from the putting-all-your-bits-in-one-basket dept.

Data Storage 159

Lucas123 writes "Years after announcing they had developed holographic optical disc technology that could store 500GB of data, GE this week said they're preparing to license the technology to manufacturing partners. At the same time, InPhase, which failed to actually get its holographic disc product out the door for years, says GE's product is nothing more than a 'science project,' and its own optical disc is almost ready to go to market — again. But, as one analyst quipped, the old joke about optical disc is that 'there's more written about optical disc than stored on it.'"

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159 comments

So what (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36908436)

GE is outsourcing a big chunk of it's business to China, and invest 2 billion in new factories over there.
They get huge tax breaks too from the American government, some jobs czar this CEO is.

Re:So what (1)

couchslug (175151) | more than 2 years ago | (#36909010)

China is a huge new market. Better American companies exploit the opportunity to enter it than not.

Want to make money? Invest in GE.

Re:So what (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36909092)

sorry I dont have a job and therefore no money to invest in GE, see how quickly that smartass attitude falls apart

fuck why dont I just flush what little money I am managing to bring in down the john, let the Chinese sell one of their 1 trillion slave babies to get by

Re:So what (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36910664)

I'm sorry you have no skills or work ethic, wait, no, you should apologize for that.

Re:So what (1, Offtopic)

clonan (64380) | more than 2 years ago | (#36909814)

Ohh, so you are against the free market!

You must be a SOCIALIST!!!

But honestly, I still have yet to have one person explain how limited socialism is a bad thing. Every time it has been tried it tends to improve standards of living, improve access to free markets and improve economies

Re:So what (1)

scamper_22 (1073470) | more than 2 years ago | (#36910190)

Find me the society that began poor, implemented socialism and became well off.

Most socialism works like this:

Country is rich to begin with.. typically via the free market or if they're lucky oil or natural resources. Europe and America was wealthy and far ahead of the rest of the world long before socialism.

Then they implements socialism.

The jury is still out on how long the mixed market socialism can last. At best it's been around for about 50 years in the western world. Not even long enough to see one generation from cradle to grave.

Re:So what (1)

clonan (64380) | more than 2 years ago | (#36910232)

I said limited socialism.

Pure socialism lasts for about a generation. The next generation will generally not follow in the same footsteps and productivity dropps dramatically

Pure capitalism last for about 5 years. It then degrads into anarchy and is reborn as feudalism.

But Limited capitalism with some socialist aspects is the ONLY form of government that has actually lasted any length of time.

Please find me an example of pure capitalism that lasted more than a few years.

You know what else is a science project? (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36908442)

Geeks that know every single Linux kernel variation, can compile any code, are very accurate when it comes to their knowledge, but somehow can't tell IT IS from ITS. I think it would take a few decades of research, but if we could raise an entire generation that could understand the apostrophe, it would be worth it. The same people who have no problem with operator overloading don't seem to grasp the simplicity of the possessive pronouns.

Re:You know what else is a science project? (0)

omnichad (1198475) | more than 2 years ago | (#36908694)

Technically an exception with the apostrophe. Apostrophes are used to denote possession AND contraction. Any other possessive noun does include an apostrophe. I agree, everyone should know, but it's not like they're missing a basic rule - it's an exception.

Re:You know what else is a science project? (1)

Trepidity (597) | more than 2 years ago | (#36909158)

It's also an exception that's only become fully standardized relatively recently. Thomas Jefferson uses "its" and "it's" in a much more interchangeable way, for example.

(Though I also happen to dislike the misuse, because I seem to mentally expand "it's" to "it is", which throws me off.)

Re:You know what else is a science project? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36909278)

Any other possessive noun does include an apostrophe.

You mean like "his" and "hers"? Fail.

Re:You know what else is a science project? (1)

CSMoran (1577071) | more than 2 years ago | (#36910952)

Pronouns are not nouns. Fail.

Re:You know what else is a science project? (1)

Phreakiture (547094) | more than 2 years ago | (#36909484)

Posessives: His, Hers, Its.

Contracted with "is": He's, She's, It's.

The pattern is brick-stupid simple when it is pointed out.

Re:You know what else is a science project? (1)

omnichad (1198475) | more than 2 years ago | (#36909760)

Ok, the exception applies to all posessive pronouns, but it doesn't apply to all nouns. It's still an exception to the general rule. A arm's length vs. My arm's on fire shows that all other nouns are ambiguous with their apostrophes.

Re:You know what else is a science project? (2)

dgatwood (11270) | more than 2 years ago | (#36910014)

AFAIK, using 's to form a contraction between a noun and the word "is" isn't considered acceptable in formal written English, so an apostrophe on a noun is not ambiguous except in fairly informal writing.

Re:You know what else is a science project? (1)

Bengie (1121981) | more than 2 years ago | (#36909990)

silly silly person. English doesn't have rules, it just has a few coincidences that look like rules. The rest of the language is just learning "exceptions"

In English, rules are the exception and exceptions are the rule.

Re:You know what else is a science project? (2)

derGoldstein (1494129) | more than 2 years ago | (#36908744)

std::string reply = "your wrong.";

Re:You know what else is a science project? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36908890)

std::string reply = "your wrong.";

is that like std::string reply = "my bad."; ?

Re:You know what else is a science project? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36910214)

is that like std::string reply = "my bad."

No, actually (std::string "my bad") == - (std::string "your wrong") once you have all your overloads in place.

Re:You know what else is a science project? (2, Funny)

Baloroth (2370816) | more than 2 years ago | (#36909004)

Aw, common, its' to hard to always remember all the rules of written language. English sure has it's exceptions which we just have to put up with. Me and you might find it annoying, but you're point is not relevant sense we all know what the summary means. Addressing just this minor point to the summary writer might be a bit insensitive to he.

Re:You know what else is a science project? (1)

cp.tar (871488) | more than 2 years ago | (#36909584)

You mean, miner point and summery writer.

Re:You know what else is a science project? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36909052)

It's common, but wrong, to assume that people who make grammatical mistakes are ignorant. In my experience most people actually know the correct word: they've just made a mistake. We have a custom scripting language at work and every now and then I'll slip up and try to close an "if" block with a "fi" (as if it were bash) instead of "endif". It's not that I don't know it should be "endif": it's just that I wasn't concentrating properly and made a simple mistake. Don't assume that because someone doesn't do something 100% perfectly every single time that they're ignorant.

Re:You know what else is a science project? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36909074)

Geeks that know every single Linux kernel variation, can compile any code, are very accurate when it comes to their knowledge, but somehow can

database error: invalid parameter

Re:You know what else is a science project? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36909356)

well good thing we dont lack grammar nazi's..

Re:You know what else is a science project? (0)

silas_moeckel (234313) | more than 2 years ago | (#36909768)

Because the English language is a huge cluster f of exceptions, It's to programming equivalent of nestled if else goto all over the place. There is little simple about it. Spellings are derived from how some guy though it was spelled years ago with a local accent. Grammar is a nasty mess of contradictions that can lead to ambiguity of meaning.

Re:You know what else is a science project? (0)

jameskojiro (705701) | more than 2 years ago | (#36910000)

Silly Poster, Apostrophes arent used for talking, they are used to strong quote something in code. Silly Poster.

Re:You know what else is a science project? (1)

deblau (68023) | more than 2 years ago | (#36910692)

I have an easy solution. English teachers should start immediately returning the student's papers with a grade of 0%, and a note attached that reads

paper.c:5: error: apostrophe unexpected after "it"
paper.c:7: error: apostrophe unexpected after "it"
paper.c:13: error: apostrophe unexpected after "it"
paper.c:18: error: apostrophe unexpected after "it"

ISO image not compatible with Windows? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36908488)

I'm in an Internet cafe and the idiot in charge informs me that an ISO image is incompatible with Nero on Windows, this after he managed to erase the image ...

Re:ISO image not compatible with Windows? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36908554)

Burn his house down. With the off-topic moderations you're going to be lambasted in.

Re:ISO image not compatible with Windows? (-1, Offtopic)

derGoldstein (1494129) | more than 2 years ago | (#36909210)

That's probably not going to happen. It appears that someone turned the mod-points faucet down to the point where just "off-topic" doesn't cut it. You need a certain about of mod points available just to keep the racist AC comments down, and there are tons of them. I haven't seen a +5 funny in days, and not due to some mysterious disappearance of humor -- "funny" is just the least important mod point, and mods try to at least make the article's interesting/insightful/informative posts pop-up first. We're left with articles sporting 300 Score:0/1/2 comments, because most mods that do have mod points move to the latest articles as quickly as possible.

Someone's broken Slashdot. Find them!

Re:ISO image not compatible with Windows? (1, Offtopic)

derGoldstein (1494129) | more than 2 years ago | (#36909686)

Thanks for making my point. There's an entire discussion going up there, almost completely unmoderated, and you've just sunk 2 mod points getting this thread down. Are you going to spend 3 more mod points knocking down this post and my previous post? What if a really hideous post pops up and you run out of points?

Re:ISO image not compatible with Windows? (0)

jameskojiro (705701) | more than 2 years ago | (#36909882)

Umm you can use the command line utility in the Windows 2003 Resource Kit tools to burn a ISO image in windows. CDBURN.EXE

http://www.microsoft.com/download/en/details.aspx?id=17657 [microsoft.com]

Free to download, use "cdburn.exe" to burn your iso images, plus other cool nifty tools.

The old joke? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36908608)

Whoever made that joke is an idiot. CDs and DVDs are optical discs.

Re:The old joke? (1)

derGoldstein (1494129) | more than 2 years ago | (#36908910)

TFA's using the phrases "optical disc", "optical storage", and "micro-holographic" in a way that makes you wonder when they're talking about which.
When they write "optical disc originally had an advantage over tape media", do they mean CD/DVD/Blu-Ray or the new holographic technology?

Re:The old joke? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36911006)

When they write "optical disc originally had an advantage over tape media", do they mean CD/DVD/Blu-Ray or the new holographic technology?

Yes.

Re:The old joke? (1)

tenco (773732) | more than 2 years ago | (#36908912)

I bet there was more written on GMR than stored with it, too.

Re:The old joke? (1)

Osgeld (1900440) | more than 2 years ago | (#36909632)

no shit fuckwad, care to explain to us other forms of media that come on a disc and is read optically

the OLD JOKE is from the early 80's where everyone was going ape shit bonkers writing about all the endless possibilities years before they even came to market, and a decade before they came cheap enough every pc had one

the only thing more dense than the media in this story is you

Interesting times (1)

Artraze (600366) | more than 2 years ago | (#36908628)

What's interesting about these systems is that they're being developed for backup purpose by the computer industry, and not by the movie industry. That means that hardware will be in production and quite probably in place before the media groups start to even think about their next DRM / license encrusted format. Sure, they'll probably still try to compete, but given the initial cost of Bluray and the rather long time it's taken to come down they may well not be able to if even a few major studios start releasing on one of these holographic formats.
Time will tell, but at the least, it'll be nice to be able to actually make a backup that doesn't require swapping out media all day (it's starting to feel like using floppies again!)

High Efficiency Video Coding (4, Informative)

westlake (615356) | more than 2 years ago | (#36909224)

That means that hardware will be in production and quite probably in place before the media groups start to even think about their next DRM / license encrusted format.

Work began on the next-generation codec in 2004:

HEVC aims to substantially improve coding efficiency compared to AVC High Profile, i.e. reduce bitrate requirements by half with comparable image quality, probably at the expense of increased computational complexity. Depending on the application requirements, HEVC should be able to trade off computational complexity, compression rate, robustness to errors and processing delay time.

HEVC is targeted at next-generation HDTV displays and content capture systems which feature progressive scanned frame rates and display resolutions from QVGA (320x240) up to 1080p and Ultra HDTV (7680x4320), as well as improved picture quality in terms of noise level, color gamut and dynamic range.

The timescale for completing the HEVC standard is as follows:

February 2012: Committee Draft (complete draft of standard)
July 2012: Draft International Standard
January 2013: Final Draft International Standard (ready to be ratified as a Standard)

High Efficiency Video Coding [wikipedia.org]

Re:Interesting times (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 2 years ago | (#36909296)

Swapping out media? Tapes have hit 1.5TB raw and if you are too poor/cheap for tape, like most folks, use hdds.

Re:Interesting times (1)

wagnerrp (1305589) | more than 2 years ago | (#36911106)

Optical media has a couple things going for it over tape:

The media is composed of 20 stacked layers of 25GB each. It is conceivable that with sufficient focusing, they can simply continue stacking layers as needed.

Despite images floating around the internet, optical disks can be accessed randomly, and there is no need for a 'DVD Rewinder'. You don't need to spend time spooling to the specific location you need before you can read the data.

They are very thin, meaning you can store half a dozen or more disks in the space used by one cartridge. Their size lends them to carousel storage. A 400-disk carousel could have a double entry reader located in the center to allow for dual sided (1TB) disks. Or you could have four readers stationed at each corner for increased concurrency. Or you could have four carousels placed around a single center reader for reduced cost. In any case, it would be drastically cheaper than the robotic loaders found in existing tape archives.

Re:Interesting times (1)

Phreakiture (547094) | more than 2 years ago | (#36909660)

I think that the problem is that BluRay was the wrong thing at the wrong time, coupled with being involved in a format war with HD-DVD for several years.

I'm not saying Blu-Ray is good or bad. I don't own the gear, so I can't comment there, What I can comment on is that DVD looks good enough on my HDTV, even though it does not look as nice as the broadcasts do. It also sounds good enough, as AC3, despite being lossy, is a pretty darned good codec. I gather that a lot of people have taken this point of view, and so have had no drive to upgrade their relatively-recently-upgraded-from-VHS movie collections to Blu-Ray.

Maybe if SVCD or VCD had caught on, then Blu-Ray might have had a better chance, because of catching things at a different stage of the market cycle. SVCD is a slam-dunk against VHS (VCD not so much) for picture quality, and DVD, while it looks better than SVCD, it doesn't look that much better.

Then there was this unnecessary format war. Blu-Ray might have fared better if, instead of duking it out, the HD-DVD consortium had agreed to allow players to be built that could read both formats. I think that the transport mechanism wouldn't be much different than that which is found in Blu-Ray players anyway, which carry both blue and red lasers so that they can read DVD and other legacy disc formats as well as Blu-Ray.

I think that there were a few combo players, but they don't count because they were rare and ungodly expensive. You need to put that in the hands of the audience and then convince them that it's worth the upgrade. If he still likes what came before, then it isn't going to work.

Sounds like they may be too late... (1)

jellomizer (103300) | more than 2 years ago | (#36908664)

500GB, but considering years old Blue-Ray stores 50gb and magnetic drives, and flash drives which can store a lot of data and now are relativity small and cheap, and more and more people are use to saving and retreading Data via "Cloud" or network type storage, It may be dead on arrival.

Re:Sounds like they may be too late... (2, Interesting)

Thavilden (1613435) | more than 2 years ago | (#36908788)

Maybe too late for consumer use, but I can see companies that wouldn't want to put their information in the cloud using them for backup. If their shelf life is longer than other optical media it may also be put to good use for archival in libraries and musuems.

Cap (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 2 years ago | (#36908872)

more and more people are use to saving and retreading Data via "Cloud" or network type storage

As I understand it, this product is designed for applications that wouldn't work with the kind of monthly transfer cap that comes with a home or small business Internet plan.

Re:Cap (1)

derGoldstein (1494129) | more than 2 years ago | (#36909044)

Unless we're talking about areas with no infrastructure at all, then broadband and data caps will increase long before this is commercially viable. Consider how much CD burners cost initially, and it was the same for DVD and Blu-ray. Not to mention, the first ~2 generations of each were A) slow, and B) unreliable. Broadband is already here and there's already a legislative push in most countries to get it to every home. This really is a "science project".

Mobile broadband (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 2 years ago | (#36909126)

broadband and data caps will increase long before this is commercially viable

Optical discs can be used in a vehicle. To transfer one dual layer BD's worth of data over mobile broadband would take ten months.

Re:Mobile broadband (1)

derGoldstein (1494129) | more than 2 years ago | (#36909314)

Ok, that's one example. How much media consumption takes place in vehicles, of any type? You can't give the general "mobile/smartphone" example because these devices don't have optical drives, so we're left between the not-at-home and not-walking-around space. How large is that market?

Re:Mobile broadband (2)

yodleboy (982200) | more than 2 years ago | (#36909472)

i'd point to the people with kids market. It would be great to be able to put 500GB of ripped Barney, Sesame Street etc DVDs on a single disk for playback on the car media system. There are other people in the car not engaged in driving that would like some entertainment.

Re:Mobile broadband (1)

NatasRevol (731260) | more than 2 years ago | (#36909646)

I already do this, but it's compressed down to about 15 GB, which works just fine for the screens in a car/van. And it's on my ipod, plugged into the A/V port in the van.

Re:Mobile broadband (1)

wagnerrp (1305589) | more than 2 years ago | (#36911170)

Why not stick those on a shock mounted mobile hard drive? Your application doesn't seem like it needs the decades of media lifetime, or the costs it entails.

Re:Cap (1)

Bob the Super Hamste (1152367) | more than 2 years ago | (#36909226)

The problem is the "legislative push" aspect of it. Now if you have a strong dictator that isn't an issue but given how fickle the political winds are I wouldn't bet on a legislative push being the solution.

Re:Cap (2)

derGoldstein (1494129) | more than 2 years ago | (#36909502)

How about market demand? Numerous large corporations need the end-user to have broadband so that they (the corporations) can make more money off them. Google, Microsoft, Apple, Amazon -- they all really want you to have hefty pipes. And Walmart just added streaming rentals. The fickle politicians can be as fickle as they want -- the economy demands broadband, it's inevitable.

Re:Cap (1)

wagnerrp (1305589) | more than 2 years ago | (#36911130)

As I understand it, this product is designed for the kind of companies that don't have monthly transfer caps to worry about, and can spend millions on a large data vault.

Re:Sounds like they may be too late... (1)

Hythlodaeus (411441) | more than 2 years ago | (#36909112)

In the "cloud" there is still physical media somewhere.

Re:Sounds like they may be too late... (1)

derGoldstein (1494129) | more than 2 years ago | (#36909388)

You mean datacenters. When you need additional space, are you going to install new hard drives, or install optical drives with those robotic disc swappers? What's going to cost more and is more likely to fail? Which one's faster and more flexible?

Re:Sounds like they may be too late... (1)

earls (1367951) | more than 2 years ago | (#36909904)

Optical media is definitely more flexible than hard drives. ;)

Re:Sounds like they may be too late... (1)

EraserMouseMan (847479) | more than 2 years ago | (#36910484)

I know for a fact some startups are trying to make optical hard drives. Identical form factor to a typical hard drive but it's got optical disks instead of magnetic platters. Personally I think it's DOA. Magnetic HDs are super cheap and SSDs are super fast, durable and are very versatile. I'm just not sure where the demand will come from for optical HDs. Any ideas?

Re:Sounds like they may be too late... (1)

wagnerrp (1305589) | more than 2 years ago | (#36911208)

While I agree with you completely, you would only need relative cheap carousel loaders, not the big robotic loaders you see on tape archives. Sony makes a handful of them for DVDs that store between 200 and 400 disks, around a central reader.

Re:Sounds like they may be too late... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36909658)

What about massively fault tolerant of-line backup, with a shelf life closer to centuries than years, another poster said tapes have a 1.5 tb capacity, so 3 disks = 1 big tape but with holographic levels of fault tolerance (very high) and less mechanical strain on the actual medium.

Day late and a dollar short (1)

localman (111171) | more than 2 years ago | (#36908674)

I consider myself one of the last holdouts - I still use my optical drive occasionally - but even I'd have to admit that it's a dying technology. By the time they get this to market everything will be solid state and/or in the cloud. Oh well, I was excited about these high capacity optical disks five to ten years ago. Now I just feel bad someone's wasting their r&d time and money on it.

Re:Day late and a dollar short (1)

tonywestonuk (261622) | more than 2 years ago | (#36908708)

So, tell me where you subscribe to a cloud based backup service with 500gb of storage, and you can push data to at 20mb/second.

Re:Day late and a dollar short (1)

earls (1367951) | more than 2 years ago | (#36908882)

Google and Amazon both offer those levels of storage - it's really just finding a decent connection.

Home and Business uses need to be separated.

Home business (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 2 years ago | (#36908966)

Home and Business uses need to be separated.

Citation needed [wikipedia.org] .

Re:Home business (1)

earls (1367951) | more than 2 years ago | (#36909796)

Home class data usage = home class connection.

Business class data usage = business class connection. Regardless of where the business is located.

So the production and consumption of new physical optical media is needed because cloud backups are impractical because (ab)users don't want to pay for business class internet for a home business?

You miss the point, I think (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36911252)

Many home users generate huge data they'd like to backup (their own digital photos, videos; consumer media they want to protect from their toddler's fingers, fire, theft). At the same time, many businesses have relatively low data volumes (email, documents).

The level of reliability and predictability needed (traditional home vs. business QoS) is different than the bandwidth needed (digital media vs traditional messaging and documents).

Re:Home business (1)

fast turtle (1118037) | more than 2 years ago | (#36911356)

I'd gladly pay for a Business Class connection if I could get one for my Home Business but since it's based out of my home, I'm limited to what is actually available to my home, which is either a dial-up AOL connection or Cable as DSL is not an option and to get even a fractional T1 line will cost me $10,000 just for the line itself. Now tell me another story please. I don't like this one.

Re:Day late and a dollar short (1)

afidel (530433) | more than 2 years ago | (#36908794)

500GB is 2x the highest capped home data plan in the US right now. Unless something radical happens to open up the last mile in the next few years (which is VERY doubtful given current economic and political realities) I don't think this kind of technology is without a market.

Re:Day late and a dollar short (1)

earls (1367951) | more than 2 years ago | (#36908978)

If you're pushing 500GB a month to and from home, you're doing something wrong.

Re:Day late and a dollar short (2)

afidel (530433) | more than 2 years ago | (#36909104)

Glad you're the arbitrator of what is the correct way to use the internet.....
On a more specific note, 1080P video can be up to ~14.4GB/hour for current standards so that's just over 1 hours of video a day, hardly an extravagant usage.

Re:Day late and a dollar short (1)

hedwards (940851) | more than 2 years ago | (#36909466)

Considering that it would take ~32mbps to stream that I'd say that it's extravagant. There's plenty of places around here where streaming an hour of video would take nearly an entire day. I know of a few neighborhoods around here where you'd be looking at 1.5mbps max bandwidth.

Re:Day late and a dollar short (1)

wagnerrp (1305589) | more than 2 years ago | (#36911358)

And yet... that's what you get on Bluray. Some of us prefer something better quality than 5Mbps Netflix and 2Mbps Hulu streams.

Re:Day late and a dollar short (0)

earls (1367951) | more than 2 years ago | (#36909672)

I see. Because you use a petabyte of data a day, everyone must, so cloud backups are impractical for everyone.

Re:Day late and a dollar short (1)

afidel (530433) | more than 2 years ago | (#36910446)

What of that did I say? I said that there is probably a market for physical storage media with a large amount of storage and that someone saying there is not because they think 500GB/month is an extravagant amount is probably wrong about there being no market.

Re:Day late and a dollar short (1)

wagnerrp (1305589) | more than 2 years ago | (#36911298)

No. What he's getting at is the market for a device like this is limited to people generating large volumes of data. Large volumes of data cannot be readily transferred across the internet on a consumer grade connection. People generating that large quantity of data are going to come up with their own storage solution (or purchase one to have on premises) rather than farm it out to some other company over the internet.

Re:Day late and a dollar short (1)

Bob the Super Hamste (1152367) | more than 2 years ago | (#36909398)

Really. I can probably get close to that in a few days. I do a lot of mapping and GIS work in my spare time and have been known to run things in a batch mode late at night to gather or send off entire state wide data sets. Now add in that all of TV viewing in my house (wife and child mostly) is done over the internet and 500GB is a trivial amount.

Re:Day late and a dollar short (0)

earls (1367951) | more than 2 years ago | (#36909822)

Yet somehow you've been able to operate to date without issue? Are broadband data caps causing a problem or was this simply "look how many GB my dick is!"

Re:Day late and a dollar short (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36911368)

The European market is larger than the US market and there are plenty of European countries where there is no problem to get relatively cheap 100/100Mbps connection without cap.
I decided to stay at 30/30Mbps since.. well, I didn't really need 30/30 either but it was less than $10 more than the 10/10 one so why not?

Not that there will be a market for them anyway unless they are significantly cheaper than the 2TB HDD's.

Re:Day late and a dollar short (1)

AJH16 (940784) | more than 2 years ago | (#36908918)

I use my optical drives for some output, but the main killer of optical drives is not the cloud, but rather the low cost of HDDs. When you can get a 2TB HDD for $100 it really isn't worth spending $1 per 25gb optical disk ($80 for that same 2TB and far more of a nuisance to work with). Give me an optical solution that is 1/4 the price again like DVDs were back in the day and I will switch back to optical backups in a huge way. Small files move on reusable USB sticks or the cloud and backup is just straight HDD or web depending on the amount of data. Large quantities of data still require HDDs as they are the most cost effective way and the cloud isn't really a good option at 100gb+ levels.

Re:Day late and a dollar short (1)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 2 years ago | (#36909474)

The advantage of optical disks is that they are cheap and easy to post. If (and that's a big 'if') 500GB disks can be made cheaply, then you can just burn one and pop it in the post every week, and you've got off-site backups for the cost of one stamp. If you need them back, first class post will get them returned to you the next day, very cheaply.

Re:Day late and a dollar short (1)

NatasRevol (731260) | more than 2 years ago | (#36909694)

How is that any different than a 500GB hard drive? The box is slightly bigger, but so what?

Re:Day late and a dollar short (1)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 2 years ago | (#36909898)

Try posting a 500GB hard drive every week, then try posting a CD-sized letter every week, and see what the difference is. Aside from cost, there's also the fact that the letter will be slipped through the letter box without any problems, while the hard disk needs someone in to receive it.

Re:Day late and a dollar short (1)

alen (225700) | more than 2 years ago | (#36908958)

blu rays in the cloud? even itunes is a niche for movie purchases.

$30 for a blu ray/dvd/digital file combo plus a bunch of extras is a good deal. the whole home server rip everything to NAS and stream over wifi is niche as well

Re:Day late and a dollar short (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36909812)

even itunes is a niche for movie purchases

There isn't a company out there that would like to have the niche that iTunes movies does.

Re:Day late and a dollar short (3, Informative)

ZenDragon (1205104) | more than 2 years ago | (#36909014)

Except what they are talking about is not your typical old opitical disk technology. They are basically talking about storing data in a 3 dimensional photosensitive material. I read an article in Wired a while back that was talking about something like a 500GB capacity in a 1cm square block I believe. Its much more efficient than magnetic storage, and more resilient than non-volitile solid state storage. The technology holds a lot of promise I think if they can make it affordable. GE is appears to be intent on preparing it in a disc configuration, but if this technolgy becomes readily available I would imagine we might start seeing things like the crystals in Supermans fortress of solitude with terabytes of capacity. I really dont understand enough about the technology to speak on its limitations and roadblocks, but the possibilities are fascinating to say the least.

A risky bet (1, Interesting)

whiteboy86 (1930018) | more than 2 years ago | (#36908778)

Mechanically driven spinning disks technologies? Are they easy to manufacture? Nope. Cheap? Nope. Simple? Nope. Future proof? Nope. Bug free? Nope. Patent free? Nope. Fast and solid state? Nope.

Optical media replication (2)

tepples (727027) | more than 2 years ago | (#36909016)

Cheap? Nope. [...] Fast and solid state? Nope.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. How much does it cost to press 1000 DVDs for distribution to end users, compared to storing the files on 1000 8 GB USB flash drives? Or 1000 BDs compared to 1000 32 GB USB flash drives? Sneakernetting large data to end users is where optical media still shines.

Re:Optical media replication (1)

whiteboy86 (1930018) | more than 2 years ago | (#36909360)

Replication or mass distribution? That is what the net and the cloud is for. Apple has ditched the optical drive already and for a good reason, all digital content we buy should be in the "cloud" and then downloaded only when needed to some local memory (flash). I can delete any game in my Steam account for space reasons and download it quickly again next year including cloud stored saves.. Why would I want to keep some unreliable physical media around? That is so last century. This tech. might help in some niche storage market perhaps, but no longer as a general "digital goods" distribution channel. Another example is that next-gen Sony VITA console, no physical media could be found there too.

Re:Optical media replication (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36909626)

So then the answer is to rely on Apple's, Amazon's or Google's unreliable physical media?

Re:Optical media replication (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36910602)

I can delete any game in my Steam account for space reasons and download it quickly again next year including cloud stored saves.. Why would I want to keep some unreliable physical media around?

And what when the service is gone?

I will have access to all my physical media games until they pry it from my cold dead hands.

Re:Optical media replication (1)

TangoMargarine (1617195) | more than 2 years ago | (#36910640)

I remember back in the old days, when there was this crazy assumption that someone might EVER not be connected to the Internet...

Re:Optical media replication (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36910594)

The holographic technique used here cannot be mass-produced with a traditional "press" method. However, the criticisms of the write speed are also possibly off base, as the drive can employ parallel writes to different layers simultaneously (at higher drive cost, of course).

Re:Optical media replication (1)

wagnerrp (1305589) | more than 2 years ago | (#36911426)

How much does it cost to press 1000 DVDs for distribution to end users

Can you actually "press" holographic media? I thought the whole purpose of using holographs as proofs of authenticity was because they were difficult and expensive to produce.

Re:A risky bet (2)

mswhippingboy (754599) | more than 2 years ago | (#36909124)

You forgot:

Going away anytime soon? Nope.

Re:A risky bet (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36909206)

Mechanically driven spinning disks technologies? Are they easy to manufacture?

Yes.

Cheap?

Yes.

Simple?

Reasonably

Future proof?

Given the history of CD-R, I'd say more so than other technologies so far.

Bug free?

See previous answer.

Patent free?

Show me a storage technology that was at introduction.

I make that 1/6. Must try harder.

Re:A risky bet (1)

orange47 (1519059) | more than 2 years ago | (#36909448)

reusable? probably not.. at least not like flash drives because of scratches and dirt. plus you'd have to wait a long time to write the tiny file because of leadin+leadout.
and plastic is not environment friendly..

Jesus, just how much has been written about them? (2)

nedlohs (1335013) | more than 2 years ago | (#36909136)

Because judging by the local bestbuy store there's a fuckton of stuff stored on optical disc just in the bluray section.

Re:Jesus, just how much has been written about the (1)

Svartalf (2997) | more than 2 years ago | (#36910292)

Heh... Holographic storage has been in the making since the 50's when they figured out that they might be able to do it. And about every 5-10 years, they trot out a new big "push" to plug the new concept in the tech, this time with discs as opposed to something more akin to Star Trek's "isolinear chips", which is what they were on about some 2 or so decades ago.

Re:Jesus, just how much has been written about the (1)

EraserMouseMan (847479) | more than 2 years ago | (#36910644)

Exactly. 500Gb on one disk. Even in a standard hard drive form-factor with 2 disk platters that's still only 1Tb. I can buy a magnetic HDD from Newegg today with 2Tb for $100. What problem is being solved by trading magnetic platters with optical ones? And at what cost? Just another glittery idea for VCs to waste their capital on.

5 years away (2)

jweller13 (1148823) | more than 2 years ago | (#36911450)

Holographic store devices have been "just 10 years away" for the past 30 years.
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