Beta

Slashdot: News for Nerds

×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

cancel ×

204 comments

First! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36911222)

First mofos!

Annnnd? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36911246)

And the majority of software folk go "meh"

Re:Annnnd? (2)

uberjack (1311219) | more than 2 years ago | (#36911302)

And the majority of the software folk go "we need a language that's not stewarded by Beelzebub himself"

Re:Annnnd? (2)

Ngarrang (1023425) | more than 2 years ago | (#36912462)

And the majority of the software folk go "we need a language that's not stewarded by Beelzebub himself"

Will these be the same developers using Visual Studio?

Re:Annnnd? (1)

treeves (963993) | more than 2 years ago | (#36911310)

Well, being under new ownership one might expect things to get better (or worse). I don't know, just a possibility. A lot of people have this software on their laptops and desktops so it might be significant.

Re:Annnnd? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36911464)

I hear it is great and use it all the time! Oh, excuse me I just got a request to go meet with some lawyers who just happened to stop by. I hope it will all be okay....

Re:Annnnd? (5, Funny)

rubycodez (864176) | more than 2 years ago | (#36912400)

that's the truth, for the language itself warmed over 1980s c++ concepts, then the promise of right-once - run anywhere in practice just a pile of B.S., the typical libraries used make business apps bloated hardware hogs.....now add to that the Oracle ogre.....fuck java, the jvm and j2ee. Superior lightweight alternatives are being embraced except for those companies with time and money to burn. And if you want to descend to an even deeper level of Hell, than sign IBM up for websphere project and watch the con-slut-ants descend like vampires

What are the alternatives? (3, Interesting)

Paul Fernhout (109597) | more than 2 years ago | (#36913156)

"Superior lightweight alternatives are being embraced except for those companies with time and money to burn."

Please list them with pros and cons.

BTW, Java was a stupid idea (VisualWorks Smalltalk was better then and might still be), but after fifteen years or so of suffering, there is a lot of good stuff about the Java platform IMHO, both code libraries and including the use of the JVM for other languages. Android is based around a version of Java. Everything has its problems. Java could use a lot more attention on the desktop, and I prefer a message passing model over a function calling model myself. Too bad Java has not been free-as-in-freedom from the start or it would have gone much further.

Anyway, I'd be curious what you thought the alternatives were.

Re:What are the alternatives? (2)

rubycodez (864176) | more than 2 years ago | (#36913596)

hours of typing for pros and cons, but I'll agree the JVM can be all right for running other languages with slimmer libraries.

Re:Annnnd? (1)

sapgau (413511) | more than 2 years ago | (#36913170)

Such as what other superior lightweight alternatives?

Re:Annnnd? (1)

MrTheDevious (1352409) | more than 2 years ago | (#36913466)

My company is busily transitioning from COBOL to Java and just purchased WebSphere ESB...what are the alternatives here? I think a bunch of us would love to know.

Re:Annnnd? (2)

rubycodez (864176) | more than 2 years ago | (#36913586)

keep the cobol, run in MIcrofocus Server Express on Linux, wrap with its c to cobol api, and access with your favorite web language.

lawsuit (3, Insightful)

Threni (635302) | more than 2 years ago | (#36911284)

Will they sue me if I install it?

Re:lawsuit (2, Insightful)

Compaqt (1758360) | more than 2 years ago | (#36911466)

Only if you change a few things around and name it after a fishing village in Iceland [wikipedia.org] to try to get out of paying royalties for mobile Java.

Re:lawsuit (4, Insightful)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 2 years ago | (#36911554)

Dalvik is not java. One is stack on is register based, they will not use each others byte code.

Re:lawsuit (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36911650)

Really? That's the best comeback you've got? You do realize there is far more to Java than it being stack or register-based, right?

Re:lawsuit (1, Informative)

Bill_the_Engineer (772575) | more than 2 years ago | (#36911704)

Um no. Implementation issues aside (stack vs. register), Dalvik is a virtual machine that runs the Java language using an incompatible byte code dictionary. That said the byte code that can run in Oracle's JVM can be easily mapped into byte codes that can be executed within Dalvik. The fact that Android (ie Dalvik) isn't using Java SE libraries is immaterial to Oracle v. Google.

Re:lawsuit (2)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 2 years ago | (#36911832)

It uses a language like java, but could use any other just as well. Just like bytecodes that can be translated so can the human readable code.

Are you trying to claim that the issue is that is uses a human interface (the high level language) that looks too much like java?

Re:lawsuit (1)

slack_justyb (862874) | more than 2 years ago | (#36912328)

The underpinning problem with Dalvik is that its implementation follows many JVM specifications. For example:

The binary format, not the actual instructions themselves, follows very closely to Java's binary class format (I think this one is a weak argument, but it is one that Oracle is throwing.)

The method used to pre-process the binary code and package the binary so that it can be pre-processed is very similar in both. (This one is a little bit less weak because the binary headers look almost the same between the two, not true for ELF binary format versus PE/COFF for Windows or Mach-O on Apple.)

Dalvik uses the same method that the JVM uses to resolve references in native code. (Basically both Dalvik and the JVM read memory from the underlying system using the same native code process, the native instructions aren't 1:1 per se but the general method is exactly the same. This could really be up for debate because the method could be argued as pretty generic.)

There are a couple of more but I'm not recalling them right off the top of my head. Let's not make the argument as petty as the use the same language, Java. That's not exactly what Oracle is claiming that Google did. Besides, Google is a bit at fault here. They could have built on top of IcedTea and have a GPL Android platform sans the lawsuits.

Re:lawsuit (1)

GooberToo (74388) | more than 2 years ago | (#36912508)

The underpinning problem with Dalvik is that its implementation follows many JVM specifications. For example:

No it doesn't. They specifically break away from JVM specifications because Java's formats are slower and hinder some of both speed and memory optimizations.

The binary format, not the actual instructions themselves, follows very closely to Java's binary class format (I think this one is a weak argument, but it is one that Oracle is throwing.)

With this definition, anything is everything. Furthermore, law specifically allows for interoperability. But beyond that, there isn't any similarities worth noting as they specifically did not care to retain any interoperability. That's the first I've heard such a claim. If in fact they are making such a claim, its like saying you and I are the exact same person because we happen to have the same hair cut.

The method used to pre-process the binary code and package the binary so that it can be pre-processed is very similar in both.

Of course its the same because its the exact same tools UNTIL the dalvik tools are used. After that, the only thing they have in common is the fact they are stored in zip files. With this logic, Oracle is in violation of every zip file format.

Besides, Google is a bit at fault here. They could have built on top of IcedTea and have a GPL Android platform sans the lawsuits.

That's a red herring Oracle propaganda position and is not true at all.

Re:lawsuit (1)

slack_justyb (862874) | more than 2 years ago | (#36913406)

No it doesn't. They specifically break away from JVM specifications because Java's formats are slower and hinder some of both speed and memory optimizations.

I guess the best way to present this would be if I had a patent on eating cereal (which would and should be ruled invalid but let's not get off the point here.) If my method is to grab cereal, grab bowl, grab milk, pour cereal into bowl, pour milk into bowl ... put milk up, put cereal up, grab spoon, eat, then just because your method is to leave the box of cereal out until done eating and grab the spoon while getting the bowl just to save time; doesn't mean you haven't infringe on my cereal eating idea. We are both basically eating cereal. I'm with you I hate patents that do this kind of thing, but it is the argument that I am making that has gotten Google into trouble. Both Dalvik and JVM use the same "processes" to load bytecode, preprocess bytecode, look up symbols in native code, etc... The bytecode is different between the two and the steps to process the bytecode are different but the overall effect is the same.

With this definition, anything is everything. Furthermore, law specifically allows for interoperability. But beyond that, there isn't any similarities worth noting as they specifically did not care to retain any interoperability. That's the first I've heard such a claim. If in fact they are making such a claim, its like saying you and I are the exact same person because we happen to have the same hair cut.

Well exactly. I'm not saying its a valid argument, it's pretty weak in my book, but it is an argument none-the-less that is being made. However, I don't know if you analogy is correct but whatever, point being it's a pretty weak argument and I think you got the point. The idea isn't that their is interoperability, I could very well make my own version of Mach-O and it not run on an Apple computer, all I really have to do is change the magic number or just put the static init code in a different place, its still Mach-O just it won't work on Apple. Likewise, I can take a Java class file and very easily change it for register based processing by changing a couple of thing in the class file, it still is a Java class file with just a couple of parts moved around (NOT SAYING that, that's exactly what Google did but I'm just simply illustrating a point that to be different you have to be very different.)

Of course its the same because its the exact same tools UNTIL the dalvik tools are used. After that, the only thing they have in common is the fact they are stored in zip files. With this logic, Oracle is in violation of every zip file format.

I think you are thinking about that point at too high a level. I'm not talking about ZIP files, I am talking about things like moving long pointers and long jump instructions to pre-defined locations to better optimize how code is executed and provide better predictability in the JIT pipe. The fact that those locations are wrapped up in a ZIP file is pretty irrelevant. Google could have used RAR or gzip, it's not the bread that your using on the sandwich that's being questioned it's the contents and how they are ordered. (I must be really hungry because I'm using a lot of food analogies.)

That's a red herring Oracle propaganda position and is not true at all.

Actually that's the FSF propaganda position, and it is very true. Google chose Harmony from Apache which was a questionable move. Google could have used IcedTea which was already GPL and would have been less questionable. I really think Harmony is a great project and I really think that Oracle should rethink their stance on the Java TCK, but they haven't. Thus it has tossed Harmony into question and products derived from it even more so. It is a fairly obvious observation. Build things upon things that are in question will bring your thing into question. Build things upon things that have been settled and face less questionable issues. Google did what it did and bully for them, I'm not a real big fan of the patents that are being argued and its good that someone may very well invalidate them, but Google knew that they were doing things a lot like the JVM and even went back and forth on whether to get a license for Java. Just like my cereal eating patent, just because you leave the cereal out and use dry milk, you violate my patent by eating cereal.

Re:lawsuit (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36913856)

because Java's formats are slower

This is slightly misleading because they're optimized for different use cases. Dalvik is optimized for startup time and memory use but it's almost always much, much slower for long running processes.

Re:lawsuit (1)

BLToday (1777712) | more than 2 years ago | (#36913440)

Then I shouldn't need to install Java for the Android SDK.

Re:lawsuit (3, Funny)

Migala77 (1179151) | more than 2 years ago | (#36911614)

Yes. But they'll also sue you if you don't install it.

Google must be watching... (0)

bogaboga (793279) | more than 2 years ago | (#36911290)

I am sure Google is watching this front carefully. I mean, it (Google), will weave any [new] developments in this release into Dalvik as well, while reminding us that "Dalvik is not Java."

Re:Google must be watching... (2)

Baloroth (2370816) | more than 2 years ago | (#36911520)

Ummm, I think you need to look up clean room design [wikipedia.org] , which is supposedly what Dalvik is. New developments can be worked into Dalvik through that process, while definitely keeping Dalvik as "not Java". It's Java in pretty much the same way an AMD processor is an Intel processor. They do the same thing, pretty much, they just do it completely different ways (or at least ways that aren't based on each other). Result: Oracle is being evil, Google not so much.

Re:Google must be watching... (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36911622)

Not quite AMD started with an intel design. When Intel couldnt make enough 386 chips they got AMD to do help them (and a bunch others). That meant 'here are the plans to make it'.

Re:Google must be watching... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36913266)

[Citation Needed]

Re:Google must be watching... (2)

Tomato42 (2416694) | more than 2 years ago | (#36913778)

Around Athlon AMD started to use completely different microarchitecture than Intel.

Re:Google must be watching... (1)

Bill_the_Engineer (772575) | more than 2 years ago | (#36911794)

Ummm, I think you need to look up clean room design [wikipedia.org], which is supposedly what Dalvik is.

I think you may need to review the definition of "clean room design". I assumed that the GP was talking about Google reviewing the JSRs related to Java 7 and not the actual source code of OpenJDK 7.

Re:Google must be watching... (1)

GooberToo (74388) | more than 2 years ago | (#36911574)

will weave any [new] developments in this release into Dalvik as well

Can you tell us which valid patents (or at least likely valid; and no I don't mean granted patents) Dalvik is infringing which is part of the JVM?

Originally Oracle claimed copyright and patent violations. From what I read, all of the copyright crap has proven to be just that - crap. And of the supposed 236 patents which Dalvik violated, over 220 are patents which should have never been granted by the USPO. So on and so on; leaving only about three of any serious point of contention. So honestly, which actually valid patents is Dalvik in violation?

Re:Google must be watching... (1)

Bill_the_Engineer (772575) | more than 2 years ago | (#36911874)

I think you may have confirmed the sarcastic humor of the GP. He never mentioned patents, instead he was poking fun at people who insist that "Dalvik is not Java". You on the other hand fell into his trap by essentially saying "Yes Dalvik is Java! Now what patents are being infringed?"

Re:Google must be watching... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36912310)

Sounds to me like the OP came up with the usual "Dalvik is Java" line, and the poster you are referring to simply said "Prove it, and incidentally, the following old chestnuts that have been brought up before have proven invalid". At what point did anyone admit to Dalvik being Java?

Re:Google must be watching... (1)

GooberToo (74388) | more than 2 years ago | (#36912322)

Actually I didn't fall into the trap. I'm normally the voice of reason of saying exactly what you're saying while being troll moderated to hell. I decided I'd try something different and try to see if he was joking or not and if not, to determine which, if any patents people believe actually have any merit. I mean, are you not a little curious to read about these so called few patents which, according to some, may actually have at least some debatable merit? I know I am.

Regardless, at this point I'm convinced the copyright claims are completely bogus and 236 patents in violation is completely out of Oracle's ass. Of the 236, the counter claim from the peanut gallery of three or so having at least some debatable merit seems plausible and I'd like to learn more about those. Wanting to learn is hardly the same thing as buy in or even outright validation. And even still, my gut says even three is iffy. But again, given the nature of a lot of patent disputes, three still seems very plausible.

Re:Google must be watching... (1)

slack_justyb (862874) | more than 2 years ago | (#36912682)

Some of the ones still outstanding:

#5,966,702
#6,910,205
#7,426,720

Not saying they are valid just answering your question. There are a couple of more and I even think that Oracle was ordered to reduce the claims down to three distinct violations, of which, I am not sure if any of these were cited.

However, Google is in a sort of hot mess right now because all of the patents have to be proven invalid, a recent review of Google employee's email show that they were indeed worried about the legal ramifications of their implementation. With a going back and forth between Google employee's over should a license to Java be acquired before going forward. http://allthingsd.com/20110727/old-email-may-bite-google-in-java-patent-suit/ [allthingsd.com]

Re:Google must be watching... (1)

GooberToo (74388) | more than 2 years ago | (#36912788)

Thank you. With Oracle's claims, its probably best to start saying, "patents", and/or, "valid". Making sure they are always wrapped with quotes.

Re:Google must be watching... (1)

slack_justyb (862874) | more than 2 years ago | (#36913432)

Very valid statement. Some of Oracle's "patents" are of questionable "validity."

Re:Google must be watching... (1)

jmak (409787) | more than 2 years ago | (#36912910)

Considering the bytecode didn't change between Java 6 and 7, they can just watch and get all the Java 7 benefits for free.

Java Facts and Figures (5, Funny)

luizd (716122) | more than 2 years ago | (#36911432)

* 97% of enterprise desktops run Java
* 1 billion Java downloads each year
* 9 million developers worldwide
* #1 programming language (TIOBE Programming Community Index)
* More than 3 billion devices are powered by Java technology

They forgot one:

* #1 programming language used in judicial patent cases

Re:Java Facts and Figures (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36912230)

* #2 at nagging users to upgrade coming in behind Adobe Flash

Re:Java Facts and Figures (1)

sapgau (413511) | more than 2 years ago | (#36913308)

so true +1

Re:Java Facts and Figures (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36912246)

Do you know why there are 1 billion java downloads each year? Hint: it has something to do with how often security vulnerabilities are found in Java and the fact that they DON'T patch - they make you download a whole new version.

Oh, and each new version breaks some non-trivial set of existing applications. Fun stuff managing Java on the desktop in a global enterprise.

Re:Java Facts and Figures (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36912262)

Most of all, they forgot the ad populum fallacy [wikipedia.org] .
Like that signature: "Eat shit! A billion flies can't be wrong!" ^^

And I'm saying that as a Java programmer. (Well... At least it's grown-up enough to be able to manage its own memory, instead of pissing pointers all over itself. [...or expecting you to re-invent the wheel yet again.] ;)

<fanboi>
I still prefer Haskel, to which I'm migrating right now. (I finally "got" monads. Yay! [You're normally hearing all this stuff about them being so hard to get, and therefore think it would be hard for you too. The trick is, that it's actually a very easy concept. The people who try to explain it are just really bad at explaining, because they oversimplify things with stupid analogies. ^^])
They have the most friendly and educated IRC channel I've ever seen. the C/C++ channels look like a diner full of scum-class construction workers in comparison. ;)
Also, they *really* think about stuff.... It is awesome to, as a experienced programmer, still feel like a n00b to which it's all Greek... and then get it, and suddenly become so much more powerful as a programmer.
</fanboi>

Re:Java Facts and Figures (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36913874)

and then get it, and suddenly become so much more powerful as a programmer.

... and then go and write another quicksort implementation.

Why's that whenever Haskell's mentioned it's always "OMG, I understood monads and learned that tongue-breaking CS term!" and almost never "OMG, I wrote this neat program that will be incredibly useful for everyone!"?

Re:Java Facts and Figures (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36912742)


* More than 3 billion devices are powered by Java technology

How many will be left after the Android injunction?

Project Lambda (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36911480)

Project lambda [java.net] was arguably the most important planned addition to the JDK7, but apparently got dropped in the last few months and pushed back to JDK8. To be honest Project Coin [java.net] , Fork/Join, and InvokeDynamic are useful, but not much of a big deal as Project Lambda.

Isn't this the problem? (4, Funny)

MrEricSir (398214) | more than 2 years ago | (#36911540)

You don't make a good language by smashing a bunch of "projects" together. If you do that, you end up with C++.

Re:Isn't this the problem? (1)

jojoba_oil (1071932) | more than 2 years ago | (#36911852)

I disagree.

There are quite a few situations where the bloat of Java doesn't fit. One of those is writing operating systems and drivers. Another is writing games. Sure, there are a few games here and there (Altitude, Minecraft) written with Java; however, a significantly greater number of games are written in C++.

It's kind of like Lua vs Python. When you need a huge set of libraries built into the language's standard library, go with Python. When you don't need all that bloat, use Lua.

Re:Isn't this the problem? (1)

glwtta (532858) | more than 2 years ago | (#36911942)

You don't make a good language by smashing a bunch of "projects" together. If you do that, you end up with C++.

On the other hand, having people use new features for a few years "in the wild", before incorporating them into the language seems like a pretty reasonable way to do things.

Re:Isn't this the problem? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36912032)

Presumably you mean C++0x?

Re:Isn't this the problem? (1)

sapgau (413511) | more than 2 years ago | (#36913358)

So you should take 10 years to come up with an improved language designed from scratch?

Re:Isn't this the problem? (1)

marcosdumay (620877) | more than 2 years ago | (#36913876)

I was going with "So you write an extendable language". But your way works too.

Re:Project Lambda (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36911826)

It's a pity even the proposal of Java large array got dropped from Project Coin. Current Java arrays are limited to 2^32 elements, which should be enough for many except for, perhaps, scientists. Huge arrays should be implemented by now since 2^32 single-precision floating point elements take 16GB, which is well within the reach of commodity desktops. Exon-exon interaction map could benefit from huge array indices since it involves arrays of at least 300000^2 elements. To get around this, we implemented a really ugly hack.

Re:Project Lambda (1)

sapgau (413511) | more than 2 years ago | (#36913380)

Interesting, did you file that as a suggestion to the java community process?

Re:Project Lambda (1)

Compaqt (1758360) | more than 2 years ago | (#36911876)

The thing I've always wondered is:

If you want lambdas and such, why wouldn't you just use LISP or Scheme [racket-lang.org] instead of trying to hack it into a C-syntax family language.

Not only that, but tacking lambdas on to Java is going to be some crazy reuse of syntax instead of having a well-designed syntax for it.

So then, you're neither here nor there. Neither do you have a powerful, but possibly tricky language, nor do you have a dead simple language for programming corporate CRUD apps.

Re:Project Lambda (1)

Raenex (947668) | more than 2 years ago | (#36912368)

If you want lambdas and such, why wouldn't you just use LISP or Scheme instead of trying to hack it into a C-syntax family language.

Because those languages have different features than a language like Java -- the biggest being that they are not statically typed. It's a useful enough feature that hacking it into the language is worth it.

Also, there's tons of Java code and programmers already in place, and people don't want to abandon it all just to gain a new feature.

Re:Project Lambda (1)

DragonWriter (970822) | more than 2 years ago | (#36913604)

If you want lambdas and such, why wouldn't you just use LISP or Scheme [racket-lang.org] instead of trying to hack it into a C-syntax family language.

Because the main competing C-derived language to Java (C#), which is also the key systems language for the main competing managed framework to the JVM (.NET) already has "lambdas and such", while still having the rest of syntax more accessible than Lisp-family languages to the vast number of developers that have strong backgrounds in C-derived languages but less background in Lisp-family languages.

Not only that, but tacking lambdas on to Java is going to be some crazy reuse of syntax instead of having a well-designed syntax for it.

The syntax seems very well designed to me, and is fairly similar lambda syntax in C# and other non-Lisp-family languages.

Re:Project Lambda (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36911892)

Probably the biggest planned change was the switch to releasing it under the GPL. We shouldn't underestimate the work involved with re-implementing many of the libraries that Sun was licensing from 3rd parties.

Given what we had been told would be part of this release during the eternity since 1.6 was released, it's natural that the massively scaled down release would seem underwhelming. But hopefully with this release done, the next release can focus on adding more goodies.

Version 6 Update 26 the last of Version 6? (1)

Bloodwine77 (913355) | more than 2 years ago | (#36911482)

I currently have Version 6 Update 26 installed on all my home computers. Will that be the final release of the version 6 branch? I hate using x.0 releases until they work out any kinks or bugs, but I have also been bitten by having an old Java version installed (it is the only vector that has successfully installed malware on my computers).

For another year (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36911722)

http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/eol-135779.html [oracle.com]

Java 6 will be updated through July 2012

(After which it will still be updated, but on a paid-only basis.)

Actually, probably longer if you have a proprietary Unix OS such as Mac OS X, AIX or HP-UX where the OS vendor ships patches. The OS vendors usually find it easier to just issue patches for the old version rather than adding support for a new one.

Re:Version 6 Update 26 the last of Version 6? (3, Interesting)

francium goes boom (1969836) | more than 2 years ago | (#36911728)

And we have applications that REQUIRE specific java versions. I wish i could uninstall all the previous versions.

Right now i have:
1.4.2.11
1.6.010
1.6.17
1.6.26

Re:Version 6 Update 26 the last of Version 6? (4, Interesting)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 2 years ago | (#36911770)

Find the developers and beat the ever living shit out of them. How you can fail at Java that hard I will never understand.

Re:Version 6 Update 26 the last of Version 6? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36912142)

It's more likely that the company only tested it under those specific versions and is only willing to support it under those versions (not that that's an excuse for it... but it's probably not the devs fault)

Re:Version 6 Update 26 the last of Version 6? (0)

rubycodez (864176) | more than 2 years ago | (#36912478)

you're half right...find the jvm developers and beat the living shit out of them. Documented backward incompatibilities. of course, some maintain that's what the jvm and j2ee is, the diseased shit out of a certain kind of developer

Re:Version 6 Update 26 the last of Version 6? (1)

Cramer (69040) | more than 2 years ago | (#36913032)

There are several applets that simply will not function with an updated version... whatever was "fixed" ends up wrecking the app. Cisco's PDM is one of them; I think it was somewhere around 1.6U13(?) where it's broken.

But then, yes, there are devs *cough*netbotz*cough* that deserve execution for wiring the full version string into the app. But given the overall lameness of Java, I'll let it slide, esp. given serious incompatibilities between major revs and the very ugly subtle problems between updates.

Re:Version 6 Update 26 the last of Version 6? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36913458)

Java has always been perfectly backwards compatible. If you broke it you had to be poking somewhere deep, deep in the forbidden zone.

You know, like system.getenv which used to be part of the api and suddenly disappeared only to come back from the grave once they got a clue or any custom tablecelleditor instead of one of the default ones since the damn logic was fundamentally broken and had to be replaced.

Re:Version 6 Update 26 the last of Version 6? (3, Informative)

curunir (98273) | more than 2 years ago | (#36911984)

According to this page [oracle.com] , you've got until July, 2012 before they stop supporting 1.6. When 1.6 was released, they continued to release fixes for 1.5, so I would assume they'll do the same for the 1.6 to 1.7 transition.

Re:Version 6 Update 26 the last of Version 6? (1)

Nivag064 (904744) | more than 2 years ago | (#36912476)

Version 6 Update 23 is due to be released soon, it is already at beta 3.

http://jdk6.java.net/6uNea.html [java.net]

Re:Version 6 Update 26 the last of Version 6? (1)

Nivag064 (904744) | more than 2 years ago | (#36912494)

I meant: Version 6 Update 27

Oracle Malware Installer V1.7.0 (1)

Deathlizard (115856) | more than 2 years ago | (#36913026)

Not to take this thread off course a little, but malware is the #1 reason we're stripping Java off of our systems this year.

From what I can tell, Java 1.7 is no different then 1.6 when it comes to updating. It still doesn't have an option to automatically install updates without prompting. And since nobody ever clicks on the taskbar icon to update Java and are usually 2-5 updates behind, Malware authors have a field day infecting systems with Java left and right.

If they need Java they can install it.

Another bag of shite (0)

Dynamoo (527749) | more than 2 years ago | (#36911492)

Another bag of shite that will get the computers under my stewardship infected with crap.

Seriously folks, if you really don't need it, uninstall it.

fuck you oracle (1, Flamebait)

hosecoat (877680) | more than 2 years ago | (#36911552)

that's right, fuck you

Yahoo Toolbar - Go away please (5, Interesting)

landoltjp (676315) | more than 2 years ago | (#36911558)

Dear Oracle,

Please turn off the default installation of the Yahoo Toolbar. I don't know why you have it checked on, but I am happy to decide for MYSELF what I Want to install on my machine.

Re:Yahoo Toolbar - Go away please (5, Funny)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 2 years ago | (#36911628)

Dear landoltjp,

We will not as we make a lot of money from that bundling. We don't care what you want, try to remember that ORACLE is an acronym for One Rich Asshole Called Larry Ellison.

Did you ever imagine? (3, Insightful)

voss (52565) | more than 2 years ago | (#36912214)

There would be someone out there that would make Bill Gates seem like a nice guy.

Re:Did you ever imagine? (1)

KillaBeave (1037250) | more than 2 years ago | (#36912618)

I'm no M$ fanboi, but Bill Gates did give away most of his fortune and is trying to cure malaria and what not. Even if his business practices were a bit scummy that's gotta earn him some nice guy points!

Larry Ellison would be more likely to use his fortune to invest in a pharmaceutical company that makes malaria medicine and then start a bunch of mosquito farms ...

Re:Yahoo Toolbar - Go away please (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36913140)

LOLROFL!

Re:Yahoo Toolbar - Go away please (1)

jojoba_oil (1071932) | more than 2 years ago | (#36911654)

They would make far less money that way...

Re:Yahoo Toolbar - Go away please (1)

fnj (64210) | more than 2 years ago | (#36913452)

We can't have that, now, can we.

Ubuntu (1)

Compaqt (1758360) | more than 2 years ago | (#36911778)

If someone has installed this on Ubuntu, could you post your experiences? Also, anything in the repos yet?

apt-get command lines, please.

Re:Ubuntu (4, Informative)

wandazulu (265281) | more than 2 years ago | (#36912010)

Funny enough, I just set up an Ubuntu box and decided to grab JDK 7 without knowing that today would be the day it was "released". As such, I downloaded it directly from Oracle/Sun/Java/Whatever. [java.net] .

Note, I then installed Eclipse Indigo, which was having some problems with some of the plugins. I added the following line to the eclipse.ini file and the problems went away:

-Djava.util.Arrays.useLegacyMergeSort=true

Everything's working fine now.

Re:Ubuntu (1)

H0p313ss (811249) | more than 2 years ago | (#36912780)

Note, I then installed Eclipse Indigo, which was having some problems with some of the plugins. I added the following line to the eclipse.ini file and the problems went away:

-Djava.util.Arrays.useLegacyMergeSort=true

Damn that's scary. If it breaks Eclipse what else does it break?

Re:Ubuntu (3, Interesting)

yincrash (854885) | more than 2 years ago | (#36912976)

It breaks things that improperly implement the Comparable interface then try to sort objects that implement that interface.

See the incompatibilities list [oracle.com]

Before, these situations were silently ignored, now an IllegalArgumentException is thrown, unless you use the option to use the legacy sorting algo.

Re:Ubuntu (2)

H0p313ss (811249) | more than 2 years ago | (#36913588)

It breaks things that improperly implement the Comparable interface then try to sort objects that implement that interface.

*sigh* ... I've seen more invalid implementations of Comparable than valid ones.

However, the reason for the change is that there's a new implementation of the default merge sort that is much faster for partially sorted input and small collections so if we get over the adoption phase it will speed up a lot of legacy code.

Re:Ubuntu (1)

Bios_Hakr (68586) | more than 2 years ago | (#36912528)

You can add the custom PPA and see if it's out there yet:

sudo add-apt-repository ppa:ferramroberto/java
sudo apt-get update

apt-cache search sun-java7-jre

If it's there, then do this:

sudo apt-get install sun-java7-jre sun-java7-plugin sun-java7-fonts

Re:Yahoo Toolbar - Go away please (1)

archen (447353) | more than 2 years ago | (#36912284)

Didn't that appear before Sun was bought by Oracle? I would guess that was an attempt at Sun to stay afloat more than Oracle to make more money. Likely now they're obligated to package it from some contract that hasn't expired.

Java 7 not supported under VMware or MS Hypervisor (1)

jweinshe (116522) | more than 2 years ago | (#36911632)

and not even supported under Oracle's current Type-1 Hypervisor Oracle VM 2.2

http://jdk7.java.net/JDK7SupportedSystemConfigurations.html [java.net] - note this:
All supported platforms are supported when virtualized in a supported hypervisor
Supported hypervisors are: Oracle VM 3.x, VirtualBox 3.x, 4.x, Solaris Containers and Solaris LDOMs. Except where noted.
VMWare and Microsoft Hypervisor NOT supported

I wrote up a blog article on this and the repercussions for paying Oracle customers of things like Oracle E-Business Suite that utilize Java
http://weinshenker.net/blog/2011/07/28/oracle-playing-fair-vmware/ [weinshenker.net]

Re:Java 7 not supported under VMware or MS Hypervi (2)

slack_justyb (862874) | more than 2 years ago | (#36912070)

Well many in my circle have noted that an immediate roll out of Java7 is not warranted at this time, in fact discouraged. The update 26 of 6 is good enough for most customers now and Java7 should be used in small installations and test beds.

Not dissing what you have here, VMWare support is a biggie in my book, but this is the x.0 release. Maybe we should give Oracle the benefit of the doubt (OMG I'm really saying this?) and wait for them to provide the support later.

Re:Java 7 not supported under VMware or MS Hypervi (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36912472)

That's kind of funny. Some of the vSphere apps are written in Java and they support running those things in VMs...

Fuck Java (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36911858)

Keep an eye on Pypy (python virtual machine with just-in-time compiler).
Dynamic, fast (and getting faster), nice and highly flexible syntax. Programming in python is pure fun, not pain.

They did not announce it (1)

Eirenarch (1099517) | more than 2 years ago | (#36911880)

They did not announce it. They RELEASED it!

invokedynamic benchmarks? (2)

glwtta (532858) | more than 2 years ago | (#36911980)

I'm curious how much of an impact the new 'invokedynamic' has - specifically on Ruby and Python - any good performance analysis out there?

Re:invokedynamic benchmarks? (1)

rsborg (111459) | more than 2 years ago | (#36913844)

I'm curious how much of an impact the new 'invokedynamic' has - specifically on Ruby and Python - any good performance analysis out there?

Well, according to a comment on HN [ycombinator.com] :

InvokeDynamic is a pretty awesome new feature in JDK7 and will likely be tranformative for dyanmic languages on the JVM. For my mustache.java templating solution it increased performance on an integration benchmark by 25%.

http://groups.google.com/group/mustachejava/browse_thread/thread/24b6c59d2ea55f04 [google.com]

Some of the changes (2)

yincrash (854885) | more than 2 years ago | (#36912132)

SE 7 Release Notes [oracle.com]
  • switch statements can now use strings (more efficient than if/else chain)
  • some new concurrency features (fork/join) to better handle multiprocessor setups
  • try with resources (so you don't always have to set a finally block to make sure your i/o object gets closed)

Re:Some of the changes (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36913710)

Ooooh, I love that try with resources. The first time I saw this was in C# (I think it's called Disposable there, I haven't coded in C# in a few years). It's a great feature to prevent resource leaks and it just looks nice.

List of features in Java 7 (4, Informative)

Necroman (61604) | more than 2 years ago | (#36912362)

Oracle has a detailed list [oracle.com] of the additions in Java 7. OpenJDK has relatively the same information [java.net] listed in a different way.

While it took forever to get JDK7 out the door, it's finally out and they can work toward JDK8, which is currently scheduled for release a year from now. The Oracle takeover is said and done and they are able to keep pushing new features into the language now. For all of us that use Java daily, this is a nice change.

I recommend looking over the feature list if you are a java dev. There are some really nice changes to make your day-to-day code just a little easier.

All politics aside (1)

ADRA (37398) | more than 2 years ago | (#36912468)

Going through the release notes, there really are a ton of neat and cool features going into the language. I hope that Eclipse will be ready for me to start playing around with some of the ones that are more IDE centric are supported!

Mac Version? (1)

tonywestonuk (261622) | more than 2 years ago | (#36913274)

Didn't oracle say they were taking over releases of Java on the mac?

And now Java 7 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36913284)

Duke Nukem Forever, Debian/hurd install CDs, Linux 3.0 and now Java 7. I'm beginning to think 2012 is really the end of the world...

Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...