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Movie Studios Want Automated BitTorrent Warnings

Soulskill posted more than 3 years ago | from the what-could-possibly-go-wrong dept.

Piracy 140

daria42 writes "The lawsuit filed by movie and TV studios against Australian Internet service provider iiNet appears to have taken a new twist, with the studios using early judgments in the case to attempt to push other ISPs towards what it has described as a 'standardized automated processing system' for BitTorrent copyright infringement notices that would integrate with the ISPs' networks and automatically forward messages to customers when they were sent by the studios."

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"We want to spam all your customers at will..." (5, Insightful)

Chris Mattern (191822) | more than 3 years ago | (#36932620)

"...but it's too much trouble to do it ourselves. You do it for us."

Re:"We want to spam all your customers at will..." (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36932958)

And get your customers to pay for it.

Re:"We want to spam all your customers at will..." (1)

Dexter Herbivore (1322345) | more than 3 years ago | (#36934150)

This is the biggest problem with the tactic that the *IAAs are taking IMHO. They're effectively suing the company that makes a highway, for the traffic that travels on the highway. Screw you *IAAs, if you can't find your real target... don't try to drop the responsibilty on everyone else.

Re:"We want to spam all your customers at will..." (1)

Scarletdown (886459) | more than 3 years ago | (#36934246)

And get your customers to pay for it.

Or engage in Hollywood style accounting and bill the MAFIIA organizations a ridiculously high fee for each notice sent out. Make it high enough that they feel it hard in their revenues.

Re:"We want to spam all your customers at will..." (4, Insightful)

causality (777677) | more than 3 years ago | (#36933006)

"...but it's too much trouble to do it ourselves. You do it for us."

If they keep pushing this, the result will be predictable enough.

It will eventually result in a new distributed peer-to-peer protocol. This new protocol will have mandatory strong encryption, will be obfuscated, will likely not have central trackers of any kind (perhaps it will rely on something like DHT), and will generally make it much more difficult to identify individual users. In turn, the pirates, who already feel quite bold, will likely share even more copyrighted material as a result of the reduced risk.

If they really want to drive it even more underground, they can, but they will regret the results. Meanwhile, the more unreasonable they become the more likely it is that Joe Sixpack will start to see them as little more than greedy thugs. Right now a lot of people who don't keep up with these developments have at least some sympathy for them. There are still many who will entertain arguments claiming that infringement of copyright is exactly the same thing as theft of tangible goods (which it is not) and the like, but the copyright cartels are on a certain path towards changing that.

Unreasonable asshats with control complexes who have politicians in their back pockets are a recipe for lawlessness, both of the unprincipled type that just wants a new movie/game/mp3 and of the civil-disobedience type who promote and support what the cartels are trying to stop as an act of protest. Exactly how many thousands of examples are needed for this to become something obvious that "everybody knows" and no longer wants to try?

No tracker/DHT (1)

sourcerror (1718066) | more than 3 years ago | (#36933034)

" will likely not have central trackers of any kind (perhaps it will rely on something like DHT), and will generally make it much more difficult to identify individual users. "

IIRC DHT uses a bootstrap node too. If MPAA can't find the users, then the users can't find each other either.

Re:No tracker/DHT (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36933966)

With an overlay network, it is cryptographically possible to exchange information without knowing who you're exchanging with.

Re:"We want to spam all your customers at will..." (2)

mlts (1038732) | more than 3 years ago | (#36933116)

Exactly. If people start getting caught left and right, it wouldn't take much for people to go to a lower tech solution -- proxy servers and secure VPNs.

If ISPs want to play a cat and mouse game, they can block proxies. However, a bit on a wire is a bit on a wire and there will be always a way to get encrypted data to another site.

Re:"We want to spam all your customers at will..." (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36933856)

re:proxies:

I can see a system where, in addition to connecting to a file tracker, you also connect to a 'proxy tracker' (very likely the same machine). Your bittorrent client also hold open a certain number of proxy channels (each, say, 1mb/sec). For each proxy channel you offer, you get to use one. So, offer 10 channels, and you can run 10 connections through 10 proxies on other people' machines, OR 1 connection, chained through 10 proxies. (Or 5 through 2 or 2 through 5, or whatever.)
Of course the program wouldn't keep logs. And even if the **AA's put a hacked version of the client online, all they would be able to see is data coming from one IP (which may or may not be the actual source) and going to another (which may or may not be the actual destination). I doubt that meets the legal requirements for sending a blackmai- er, 'copyright infringement' letter.

Yes, it'd be slower than torrenting is now. Yes, ISPs could block proxies. But when everyone is a proxy...

Re:"We want to spam all your customers at will..." (1)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 3 years ago | (#36933636)

Sounds like you are describing freenet :)

however, with bandwidth caps it will become academic here soon anyway.

Re:"We want to spam all your customers at will..." (4, Interesting)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | more than 3 years ago | (#36933746)

welcome back to the rise of sneakernet.

I have not been in college for decades and decades; but I *assume* that that many kids together will have drive sharing parties. no intertubes THERE to get in the way.

Re:"We want to spam all your customers at will..." (1)

brim4brim (2343300) | more than 3 years ago | (#36933972)

Brothers friends used to do this in the past few years. Ireland does have relatively poor broadband and crap caps already so this never went away.

Students organise to each download different things then meet up to watch a movie with some beers and share their wares around for free.

I thought the funniest part was they used PS3's to distribute the content since it was in the main room and was going to be used to watch the movie anyway.

Re:"We want to spam all your customers at will..." (1)

kitsunewarlock (971818) | more than 3 years ago | (#36934066)

Many campuses already have LAN based file-sharing systems set in place. They share the address (and password, if any) via word-of-mouth and share their media folders/servers. I've heard of some servers on a local campus sharing upwards of 300 gigs of what appeared to be all copyright material at speeds faster than both torrents or direct download. Almost makes me wish I lived on campus...

Re:"We want to spam all your customers at will..." (4, Interesting)

aaaaaaargh! (1150173) | more than 3 years ago | (#36933688)

What about this: What counts is trust. You need to make a network where everybody connects directly with trustworthy friends ONLY---talking real friends, not "Facebook friends." These are connected with other trustworthy friends, but friendship is not transitive, and so you cannot connect with the friends of your friends unless they are already your friends. On top of this, add an onion-routing based mechanism to request things from friends, and their friends if they don't have it, and so on, until the requested entity is found and onion-routed back.

Assuming it's technically implemented in the right way, a node in such a network can only be compromised when a friend betrays you. As long as you add only real friends, the network is pretty safe and very hard to subvert. I wanted to implement this myself but the NAT traversal without central servers needed for this to work turned out to be a tough nut to crack. Of course, using a broadcast/flooding search the network is also not very efficient. But perhaps someone finds the idea interesting...?

Re:"We want to spam all your customers at will..." (4, Informative)

maugle (1369813) | more than 3 years ago | (#36934194)

You just described Freenet.

Re:"We want to spam all your customers at will..." (1)

Urza9814 (883915) | more than 3 years ago | (#36934386)

If only I had mod points. Parent, and GP both...couldn't help but thinking, as I was reading, 'these systems already exist, and have for many years.' We don't need something strong enough to push people to BUILD things like these, we just need something strong enough to push people to USE them. But there are plenty who do already -- last time I was on Freenet, there was a better selection of movies than Netflix streaming!

Re:"We want to spam all your customers at will..." (1)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | more than 3 years ago | (#36934634)

Except with freenet, you don't have to trust the nodes. Unless an attacker can control a great many nodes, more than is practical, they can't determine what you are doing even if you are connected to a node they control. They can tell you are using Freenet, but that's about it.

Re:"We want to spam all your customers at will..." (1)

Em Adespoton (792954) | more than 3 years ago | (#36934310)

OK: so I connect to my friends, one of whom happens to live in LA. They connect to their friends, one of whom happens to be an actor. They connect to their friends, one of whom happens to be a producer. They connect to their friends, 5 of whom work for the MPAA.

Now, this could actually work, as for the MPAA guys to find anything whatsoever out, they'd need to be sharing stuff they shouldn't be... but the final connection would be between them and you, unless you're proxying. If you're doing an onion proxy, there goes any claim to being faster than, say FreeNet or TOR.

For a look at how this theory works out in real life, look at LinkedIn. You still get "friend addicts" who will link to anyone, and if one of them happens to be a friend of yours, then you're somewhat compromised.

The sad point I'm making, is that unless you and all your friends are Information Security analysts or something similar, you can't trust them in this sort of thing just because they're your friends. You're really trusting their computer hardware and their ISP, not just the physical person you call your friend.

Re:"We want to spam all your customers at will..." (3, Interesting)

discord5 (798235) | more than 3 years ago | (#36934340)

What you are describing is typically called a darknet. In small groups darknets work great, but as the group grows the risk grows.

Assuming it's technically implemented in the right way, a node in such a network can only be compromised when a friend betrays you.

Let's assume 3 friends are in the relationship A -> B -> C. If A is somehow caught (due to coincidence, stupidity or simply trusting the wrong person) then that exposes B. When B is caught inevitably due to A, that exposes C. Each node that is compromised on the network reveals more and more, and basically an attacker only needs one node to get started.

Given the nature of the average user, this network will not survive many iterations of "friends of friends". It's inevitable that someone who misunderstands the concept of a darknet breaks trust. What you're describing is already implemented several times and is used by W.A.S.T.E. and if I'm not mistaken Freenet 0.7 has an implementation of a darknet.

I wanted to implement this myself but the NAT traversal without central servers needed for this to work turned out to be a tough nut to crack. Of course, using a broadcast/flooding search the network is also not very efficient. But perhaps someone finds the idea interesting...?

Kademlia does a good job of maintaining a "routing table" for your network, but doesn't solve the NAT traversal problem for you. You're stuck with STUN and NAT-PMP or UPnP for solving the NAT problem. These techniques are already in use in current bittorrent clients that use DHT. The biggest problem with Kademlia is that it builds a list of all nodes on the network for efficiency reasons, allowing it to survive network churn. A kademlia like DHT would be needed for building an index of what is on the network.

You would most likely be more interested in having each node in the network act as a relay for other nodes, so Kademlia is perhaps a bit overkill for tracking nodes. Suppose that you're interested in downloading "cop_dog.mpg". You go look in your lookup table for "cop_dog.mpg" and find that you got keys from your neighbour node B. So you know who to contact. Node B knows that Node C and D on the network have this movie, but they are only connected to node B, and you're node A. This would mean that node B can download the movie from C and D, and has to relay all that data towards your node A (if you want to make sure that you only allow direct peers to connect to eachother).

There are several problems with this setup as well:

  • Node B in this scenario is pulling twice the bandwidth (one for download from C&D, and one for upload to A). Given how many ISPs are implementing data caps this becomes a bit of a problem.
  • Node B is also the point where you can start doing traffic analysis. Since node B is using so much bandwidth, an ISP or totalitarian regime X could start checking the IPs node B sends traffic to/receives traffic from. It becomes apparent quickly that 1.4GB of data is being uploaded to Node A, and 700MB is downloaded from C & D.

I'm not an expert on the subject, and I'm sure the developers of Tor, I2P and Freenet have much more interesting things (and most likely more accurate) to say on the subject. There's also a lot of interesting research papers written on P2P networks, although mostly about churn. I got interested in P2P a long time ago when I was looking for a solution to a particular problem, but opted for a centralized system in the end due to not finding a decent way to "trust" nodes in the network.

Re:"We want to spam all your customers at will..." (1)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | more than 3 years ago | (#36933732)

you just described what we know as an 'arms race'.

you'd think those in power would understand this. then again, I take that last sentence back.

since when have humans ever really retreated from a known arms race?

Re:"We want to spam all your customers at will..." (1)

FutureDomain (1073116) | more than 3 years ago | (#36933836)

There's Tahoe [wikimedia.org] , which is pretty much what you described.

Better yet (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36932624)

Just notify EVERYONE. They're all dirty pirates, right?

Yep. This is not a free country. (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36932784)

Just notify EVERYONE. They're all dirty pirates, right?

Yeah. That's how America works these days.

Treat everyone as a terrorist - search them at airports, train stations, on the road, etc - ever been for radiation therapy? Look out!

Everyone is a potential meth addict - gotta show your driver's license to get 10 pills of Sudafed!

Everyone is a drunk driver - that's why there are road blocks where they stop everyone to see if they're drunk - sucks when you're working weekend nights and you're automatically considered a drunk!

On the internet? Well, you're pirating and downloading child porn unless proven innocent!

Re:Yep. This is not a free country. (1)

Dexter Herbivore (1322345) | more than 3 years ago | (#36934174)

Yeah. That's how *EVERY WESTERN COUNTRY* works these days.

FTFY

Re:Yep. This is not a free country. (1)

Teun (17872) | more than 3 years ago | (#36934352)

Everyone is a drunk driver - that's why there are road blocks where they stop everyone to see if they're drunk - sucks when you're working weekend nights and you're automatically considered a drunk!

As someone on the road during weekend nights I happily blow a few times a year in that breathalyser and gain some peace of mind knowing that oncoming car is more likely driven by a sober person.

Freedom doesn't come for free.

Another warning proposal (4, Insightful)

Pieroxy (222434) | more than 3 years ago | (#36932626)

Can we also have a warning for *AA affiliates exec? It should be triggered everytime they approach a public statement, it should say "If you're about to talk about piracy, please consider the fact that you're about to make a fool of yourself. Again."

Re:Another warning proposal (1)

Bahamut_Omega (811064) | more than 3 years ago | (#36932882)

The studios scream piracy, while we scream about their own little brand of corporate thuggery. Just leaves me with one question; shall we be keelhauling or hanging the corporate lobbyists from the yardarm?

Re:Another warning proposal (2)

mbone (558574) | more than 3 years ago | (#36932942)

They are paid enough that they don't care if they appear as fools.

Re:Another warning proposal (1)

Pieroxy (222434) | more than 3 years ago | (#36933724)

Exactly! The warning will have the exact same effect on them that it will have on all the pirates firing a BitTorrent client. Nobody will give a shit.

My patience is running low (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36932642)

Do I have to go all indie or CC?

Re:Do I have to go all indie or CC? (1)

TaoPhoenix (980487) | more than 3 years ago | (#36932900)

Yes!

Make copyrighted material "the new pariah!"

"Eew! You watched THAT? Yeah maybe it's an okay show, but you can't show me your favorite clip!"

MOVIE STUDIOS CAN BITE MY SHINY METAL ASS !! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36932662)

Then they can get on their knees and work on my torrent !!

Re:MOVIE STUDIOS CAN BITE MY SHINY METAL ASS !! (1)

mrsurb (1484303) | more than 3 years ago | (#36932738)

ITYM "Bite my fhiny metal aff"

solution (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36932666)

the world is slowly going all fascist.

why don't we just put everyone in jail and be done with it already.

if you want to do, see or say anything you have to apply in writing. you will be let out of your cell only if your activities are pre-approved.

Re:solution (1)

ScrewMaster (602015) | more than 3 years ago | (#36933094)

the world is slowly going all fascist.

why don't we just put everyone in jail and be done with it already.

if you want to do, see or say anything you have to apply in writing. you will be let out of your cell only if your activities are pre-approved.

Living under a totalitarian state can be considered a form of imprisonment.

Does it include an envelope for the fine? (3, Insightful)

yossie (93792) | more than 3 years ago | (#36932682)

Man, this is starting to sound more and more like the local parking enforcement and red-light camera issued tickets! Guilty without need to present evidence and little to no contesting rights. Next thing you know, the studios will have enforcement troops.

Re:Does it include an envelope for the fine? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36932806)

They already do have enforcement troops, police, the FBI, ICE, and other Federal law enforcement agencies. Also included in the package is a court system that will do anything and everything on behalf of the studios, and the administration that supports it all....

Re:Does it include an envelope for the fine? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36933382)

Man, this is starting to sound more and more like the local parking enforcement and red-light camera issued tickets! Guilty without need to present evidence and little to no contesting rights. Next thing you know, the studios will have enforcement troops.

Well, you know, there is evidence in the case of traffic enforcement. As much as it sucks, they do things correctly, at least most of the time. Red light cameras do not issue fines - they gather evidence that a traffic violation occurred. Using that, the traffic enforcement authority then issues a notice, usually in the form of a fine and/or demerit points. If you pay, its taken as an admission of guilt - easy. If you contest it, the case proceeds like any other hearing. Probably with a judge hearing your side of the story, and weighing it up against the evidence given by the traffic enforcement authority (that red light camera). Laws are usually passed that specifically allow these devices to be used to gather evidence the way they do - and part of the deal is that they need to be regularly verified to be working properly.

While, yes, there is little-to-no point in contesting, that's usually because they've got pretty strong evidence. I make no comment about whether these things do anything for road safety.

All in all, I'd say that local parking and red light camera (and speeding cameras, too) are much fairer than this scheme. At least with those systems, the whole thing is monitored closely to prevent abuse/error. This scheme, I imagine, will do nothing of the sort.

*sigh*

Re:Does it include an envelope for the fine? (1)

Flipstylee (1932884) | more than 3 years ago | (#36933384)

They do already, that's where the warrantless wiretaps come in.

Slippery slope (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36932686)

First it is automated warnings, then it is automated lawsuits and then it is automated executions....

Rent it and Rip it (5, Interesting)

realityimpaired (1668397) | more than 3 years ago | (#36932700)

Seriously.... between tools like MakeMKV and Handbrake, it is trivial to rip a DVD these days. And on the crappy connections that they want to sell us (I'm on a 5mbit DSL with torrent traffic shaping turned on so I'm lucky to pull more than 100kbit), it's faster to simply rip the DVD to your local hard drive. Since I've already paid for the privilege, where's the incentive to actually go out and buy a DVD, now?

These people do realize that pirates are actually their best customers, right? The whole try before you buy thing? Yes, some folks will do it simply because they can, but I simply won't buy a DVD unless I've seen the movie, because I want to make sure I'm not paying for a crappy movie. That either means I download the movie, or I've seen it in theatre. If they don't want my business, that's their call; I'll just give the money to the local rental store, instead.

Re:Rent it and Rip it (3, Interesting)

Mr Thinly Sliced (73041) | more than 3 years ago | (#36932764)

So you are saying you're willing to pay some scratch for it (rental).

This is it's worth to you, crappy movie or not.

The fact you indulge in pirate downloading actually validates some of their arguments (you acknowledge it has _some_ worth, but take the convenience route).

The best thing that can happen to the open source / free software movement is that enforceable / unbreakable DRM exists - so idiots like you who think convenience justifies pirating content can't play your pirated games or movies any more. (This also goes for Office, Windows etc)

If you had to pay the real price for the things you pirate - you wouldn't - so it clearly isn't worth that much to you, right?

O wait, I forgot, we have a few generations now who believe they should get stuff for free. Sure you should, but only the things people have decided they want to give you for free.

Re:Rent it and Rip it (1)

spire3661 (1038968) | more than 3 years ago | (#36932820)

NO we have a few generations who now KNOW that the entertainment industry artificially inflates pricing to the point to where cost has no real bearing on profit. We are fine with people making money, we are not fine with artificial scarcity inflating prices. DO you not see that?

Re:Rent it and Rip it (2)

Mr Thinly Sliced (73041) | more than 3 years ago | (#36932854)

O I see it, I just don't see the current approach (piracy) as changing the status quo in any way.

All you are doing is encouraging the **IA to enforce harsher penalties and stricter control.

Not funding or pirating the content at all would be the way to change it. But people _need_ their pirated games and movies, right?

Re:Rent it and Rip it (1)

realityimpaired (1668397) | more than 3 years ago | (#36932994)

I see it as the media equivalent of a demo disk. Remember how you used to be able to get the first episode of Commander Keen or Wolfenstein 3D on a floppy, and you could mail away for the full version? Same deal with pirating movies.... if it's worth owning, I'll buy it outright. If it's crap, I'll do the digital equivalent of walking out of the theatre: I'll stop it halfway through and delete the file.

I realize that some people download movies they have no intention of ever watching, just because they can, but I'm not in that category. I download movies because I don't trust the recording industry to not put out crap, and because the movie theatres are charging too much money to find out whether it's worth seeing, and because the majority of the people reviewing the stuff are paid shills. I really don't have a reliable mechanism to determine whether a movie is worth watching without actually *watching* the movie. My "pirating" movies actually increases their sales: between TV series I've bought on disc and actual movies, there's nearly 500 discs in my collection, and most of those never would have been bought if I hadn't had the chance to watch enough of it to determine if it's worth paying for.

It's the equivalent of listening to an album play on a radio station that still does that kind of thing, or you're in a music store that lets you listen to the disc before buying it. Some of them actually do still do that, and I have discovered some bands I never would have spent money on otherwise through that kind of try-before-you-buy stuff.

This thread isn't talking about software... you won't find any pirated software in my home, actually. Not a one. Largely because most of it won't work on my system, and I can't be bothered to make it work when there's perfectly good alternatives available to me...

tara@MarchHare:~$ uname -r
2.6.35-28-generic
tara@MarchHare:~$

'nuf said?

Re:Rent it and Rip it (1)

Rennt (582550) | more than 3 years ago | (#36933090)

I realize that some people download movies they have no intention of ever watching, just because they can, but I'm not in that category.

And - I'd like to add - this category does not represent lost revenue either.

Re:Rent it and Rip it (1)

Grygus (1143095) | more than 3 years ago | (#36933070)

I think they're encouraging them to adopt a new business model; the industry just refuses to adapt because they know it's all a big show.

There have always been people who stole movies (sneaking into theaters, etc.) but if you really believe your customer base is widely engaged in such behavior then you really should realize that you are doing something right in the making of the movies and something terribly wrong in the distribution. I believe the industry has realized this; these are smart people. However, they've also realized that lawsuits are lucrative, the public's perception of them is irrelevant, and that they can use the situation to get favorable legislation passed. The incentive to actually address the situation isn't enough to move them; therefore, they believe that fixing their model would not result in sufficient revenue to exceed their current perks, i.e., piracy isn't really as big a problem as they're making it out to be, and they know it.

Re:Rent it and Rip it (1)

Dexter Herbivore (1322345) | more than 3 years ago | (#36934206)

Can you please explain why the **IA should be enforcing penalties at all? Why a profit driven organisation should have ANY place in determining penalties? Or does your logic fall down on why a for profit organisation should determine legal policy?

Re:Rent it and Rip it (3, Insightful)

ScrewMaster (602015) | more than 3 years ago | (#36933262)

The best thing that can happen to the open source / free software movement is that enforceable / unbreakable DRM exists - so idiots like you who think convenience justifies pirating content can't play your pirated games or movies any more. (This also goes for Office, Windows etc)

Of course, there are still idiots like you that continue to use incorrect terminology. That dilutes whatever message you may think you have (especially here on Slashdot) and, if anything, makes you appear like a media company shill. That's the facts, jack. If you're an American (and I accept that you may not be) you should read up on what our law considers the definition of "piracy" to be. Hint: it's not the GP grabbing a couple of torrents. Using the attempted re-definition of legal language that the media companies are using to promote their twisted definition of copyright does not help matters at all, no matter what side of the fence you're sitting upon. Outright lies, fabrications and untruths (something that big media is absolutely famous for spewing forth at regular intervals) rarely improve any situation, and make any form of reasonable compromise impossible. More fact: these little pricks put themselves into the situation they're in today, by demonstrating a depth of vision flatter than a sheet of Reynold's Wrap. Luddites and modern technology rarely get along well, especially when you toss in a sprinkling of sociopathy.

What I think you fail to understand are a couple of important things. One: this is not directly about money. I think it's pretty clear at this point that copyright infringement, even on the scale afforded by the Internet, is not lowering industry profits overall, in fact, it's probably the opposite. Two: what these conglomerates want is to regain control of content distribution, like they had prior to the rise of peer-to-peer. Three: that gives them control not only of consumers (who then have little choice but to "enjoy" whatever pablum those bastards decide to dole out at any given time) but, just as importantly, control of the artists, who then have no place to go to sell their works except through "approved" channels. Why do you think the record labels hate iTunes so much? Because they effectively ceded control of their entire music distribution network to Steve Jobs, who is just as big a control freak as they are. Well, I told you they aren't particularly intelligent.

Sorry buddy, that is simply not the social contract that the Constitution granted Congress the power to make between business and the public domain. It just isn't, and when you add into the mix the insanely extended copyrights (also not exactly Constitutional) any sympathy I might have for the big copyright holders just evaporated. Time to get a reality check: you are not supporting artists with your attitude, you are not supporting the public domain, you are not supporting what is best for your own society. You are, instead, taking the side of several criminal gangs who have successfully corrupted our legal system and spent quite a bit of money conscripting the Federal government to enforce copyright. That's not how it is supposed to work: having a copyright simply means that you have the right to seek redress: it was not supposed to mean that the United States Federal Government will seek to destroy people and companies on your behalf.

I ask you: is that a good thing?

Re:Rent it and Rip it (2)

Slashdot Assistant (2336034) | more than 3 years ago | (#36933326)

That's not how it is supposed to work: having a copyright simply means that you have the right to seek redress: it was not supposed to mean that the United States Federal Government will seek to destroy people and companies on your behalf.

Well put, sir!

Re:Rent it and Rip it (1)

ScrewMaster (602015) | more than 3 years ago | (#36933592)

That's not how it is supposed to work: having a copyright simply means that you have the right to seek redress: it was not supposed to mean that the United States Federal Government will seek to destroy people and companies on your behalf.

Well put, sir!

Thank you. I vote that every prevarication issuing from the throat of an RIAA/MPAA mouthpiece be henceforth known as a "Valenti", in honor of the man [wikipedia.org] himself.

Here's a perfect example: "The entertainment industry is losing thousands of billions of dollars to piracy" (ejaculated by the media company representative at the recent EG8 conference.) Matter of fact, that's what I call a "big Valenti" since it's damn near Biblical in scope.

Re:Rent it and Rip it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36934602)

several criminal gangs who have successfully corrupted our legal system and spent quite a bit of money conscripting the Federal government to enforce [unreasonable] copyright.

Criminal indeed. Hollywood was formed because these criminals wouldn't pay reasonable license fees for film technology, so they moved to the west coast where enforcement was lax. Then when they become "legit", they cook the books (hollywood accounting), and join organizations that condone slavery and treason (Scientology).

Re:Rent it and Rip it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36933738)

Hey look everybody, it's a paid MPAA shill.

Re:Rent it and Rip it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36933760)

kill yourself asshole

Re:Rent it and Rip it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36933904)

Haha, wonderful troll old-timer! You almost had me going!

Re:Rent it and Rip it (1)

Dexter Herbivore (1322345) | more than 3 years ago | (#36934232)

It'd be a better troll if he bothered to put his account to it, instead of an AC post. AC posts fail...

Re:Rent it and Rip it (2)

macemoneta (154740) | more than 3 years ago | (#36932940)

Don't forget that you don't even need to rip it - many libraries now carry popular DVDs. I live near a county branch, and the DVD selection is excellent (about 5,000 titles). They also have popular CDs, periodicals, and ebooks ('checkout' from their website). They are all free and legal. Check out your local resources.

Re:Rent it and Rip it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36933072)

Wait, is that actually legal? I can see RIAA/MIAA going after libraries soon!

Re:Rent it and Rip it (1)

Hadlock (143607) | more than 3 years ago | (#36933074)

A lot of people I know will torrent a movie rather than wait for it to arrive by mail from netflix, if it isn't available via streaming, or there is a higher quality version on bittorrent that you can't get from hulu or netflix.

Re:Rent it and Rip it (1)

Totenglocke (1291680) | more than 3 years ago | (#36934418)

I know people who do it one better - they check it out of the library for free and then rip it.

How much bittorrest traffic is pirated material? (1)

mallyn (136041) | more than 3 years ago | (#36932704)

I admit, I don't use bittorrent, but I am curious since I hear so much about it and piracy and tv/movie studios whining about bittorrent. Which brings up my question, just how much of bittorrent (and large ISP's) traffic is pirated tv/movie studio content? 0.1 percent? 5 percent? Is this such a big deal?

Re:How much bittorrest traffic is pirated material (2)

Haedrian (1676506) | more than 3 years ago | (#36932756)

Most important question is

"How much money can we get from that percentage?"

Re:How much bittorrest traffic is pirated material (1)

Slashdot Assistant (2336034) | more than 3 years ago | (#36932760)

I'd expect the figure to go the other way, i.e. 5 percent or less is legitimately copied content. Ignoring trackers for very specific uses - such as Blizzard's tracker for distributing WoW patches, the bulk of the torrents would almost certainly be infringing content.

Re:How much bittorrest traffic is pirated material (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36933284)

perhaps so, but that's only because it's an efficient method of transfering files. Anybody want to guess what the percentage of ftp traffic was pirate stuff before bittorrent came along?

Re:How much bittorrest traffic is pirated material (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36932848)

Hard to say but considering that many games push patches down with it now... world of warcraft must generate a lot of traffic. If one were to open it up to all p2p traffic, there is a lot of legit traffic now. There's also many linux distros that distribute ISOs with bittorrent.

Someone needs to tell these movie studios that their kids games use this technology.

Re:How much bittorrest traffic is pirated material (1)

Em Adespoton (792954) | more than 3 years ago | (#36934392)

Using bittorrent is similar to using a pickup truck with a gun rack (yeah, I know, an almost-car analogy) -- it doesn't really matter what percentage of the traffic is pirated media. Just like we don't want people poaching wildlife in their pickup truck, the media companies don't want people stealing their product (which isn't the content, it's the viewers) by torrenting the media.

Actually, now that I think of it, "poaching" is a much more accurate term than "pirating" for what people do with corporate media content.

I think it's funny how the... (1)

carlhaagen (1021273) | more than 3 years ago | (#36932714)

...studios all seem to think that it's the ISPs' duty and responsibility to do their job for them, for free. Ask them where to send the bill, I say.

Re:I think it's funny how the... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36932740)

It's like forcing every messenger to know what people are sending to each other, and stop them if it's the wrong thing. Imagine if a private company or organisation tried this with the post office.

Re:I think it's funny how the... (1)

rrossman2 (844318) | more than 3 years ago | (#36932798)

They do... its called the postal inspector. Granted its not *every* package, but they do catch stuff and arrest people

Re:I think it's funny how the... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36932866)

...studios all seem to think that it's the ISPs' duty and responsibility to do their job for them, for free. Ask them where to send the bill, I say.

"Rights holders" already sit on billions of dollars worth of property, and don't pay a penny in property tax. Big Name watch makers already have customs agents working for them making sure that people that buy legitimate product in country A don't take these into country B, all on the taxpayer's dime. So yes, it's all part of the business model.

Translation: (1)

gman003 (1693318) | more than 3 years ago | (#36932718)

"We don't even want to bother figuring out their email address."

ISP response: sure, studios - here's the BILL (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36932722)

The ideal ISP response to this would be to agree and then send the studios a bill at, say, $10000 per notification to cover "costs". Hollywood accounting works both ways...

Movie studios don't have a clue (1)

zcomuto (1700174) | more than 3 years ago | (#36932736)

If they want to reduce piracy, they need to provide more incentive for purchasing a £10, £15 DVD or bluray. At the moment, the price/entertainment ratio is appalling. I buy some stuff, I prefer to buy than pirate, I like a physical collection, but when movies come out more often than not at £15 there's no chance in hell I'd go out and buy them.

Re:Movie studios don't have a clue (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36933910)

As far as I'm concerned, if the studios want to retain control of their "product", then they are obliged to produce an environment of their own, which I pay to enter and partake of the experience. If they want to have me enjoy/endure it in my own home, then my consumer rights supersede their right to profit, and I can do *whatever* I want with it.
That is where the balance of citizen's and suppliers' rights even out. It's a compromise which doesn't impede on either side, doesn't require more legislation, policing, or fiscal irresponsibility. Yes, it's unfortunate (for Big Media Inc) that computers and the internet have rendered the home entertainment market niche virtually worthless, but that kind of wealth displacement is supposed to happen in a healthy, open market. It keeps assholes from wresting control and impeding competition.

abuse (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36932744)

In its letter to Exetel, AFACT noted that it was also sending the ISP a comprehensive spreadsheet detailing “a sample of up to 100 instances per week” of alleged copyright infringement actions taking place by Exetel customers. The letter stated that a high degree of detail was contained in the spreadsheet — including the date and time of the alleged infringement, the IP address on which it occured, the name and detailed of the file shared online, the name of the AFACT member company holding the copyright and more.

Yeah there is no way this could be abused. We're just supposed to trust the figures presented by the "AFACT". Look piracy has gone up 2000%!!

Construction royalties (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36932746)

I'd like royalties for 60 years on every house I've ever worked on.

Re:Construction royalties (1)

mbone (558574) | more than 3 years ago | (#36932874)

Better start lobbying Congress.

and next week... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36932802)

...the movie studios will want an automated settlement system that adds on a few grand to your ISP's bill and is automatically deposited in the account of their choice, likely the 'Christmas bonus' account

Just Stop watching Movies and Start Reading Books (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36932808)

Really, It's YOU who gives them the money to screw you....

Re:Just Stop watching Movies and Start Reading Boo (1)

lennier1 (264730) | more than 3 years ago | (#36932962)

You think publishing houses will be any better if you allow them as much influence as Hollywood has gained?

and the less money they take in... (1)

Lead Butthead (321013) | more than 3 years ago | (#36933214)

and the less money they take in, the more they'll blame "the low life scum sucking free loading pirates." I often wonder if it has ever occur to them that maybe (most of) their product suck donkey balls?

Here is how to save time (1)

mbone (558574) | more than 3 years ago | (#36932862)

If the movie studios want it, and it is not directly related to the making of movies, oppose it. This will save lots of time in the end.

Go indie (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36932926)

I hate the *AA. They sodomize anything and everything around them, and on top of that, most of what they produce is utter trash. I've completely weened myself from RIAA music, and that wasn't hard at all as there are plenty of fantastic and truly independent musicians out there and their music is easily accessible. Movies/TV are another thing, the girlfriend can't get enough, but I've cancelled cable TV and haven't been to a theater or bought a DVD in ages. We have Netflix, so I'm still guilty, but I would absolutely love to cut the cord entirely. I'd love to see a streaming service that was all indie content, I'd ditch Netflix just so the MIAA wouldn't get paid. Maybe that's extreme but I truly believe that you vote with your dollars and you should approve of the people you support with them.

I wish we were strong enough to collectively boycott their products until they got their act together, actually it's too late for that, until they finally collapse like the hulking outdated business model they are. I'd like to think it's only a matter of time--that you can't run a successful business by treating your customers like criminals, that your customers just won't put up with it. I sure hope that's the case.

Yes, actually I am on a personal quest to spread my hatred of *AA far and wide to everyone that will listen, I'm glad you noticed and I hope you'll join me. I haven't even gotten a letter or anything, their behavior is enough for me.

The movies studios are "THE MATRIX" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36932954)

Every single article about the movie studios has the word "WANT" in it

The MPAA/hollywood should get their house in order (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36932978)

A hugely successful film makes a huge loss on paper according to the hollywood accounting rules.
What utter tosh. According to them no film can ever make a profit. So why are the MPAA members living in multi million $ mansions?

Why don't they run their business according to the same accounting rules that the rest of us have to follow?
The answer is simple. The money that is actually made on a file in then used to grease some sweaty palms in places like DC to keep the status quo in place.

I will keep torrenting until their house is in order. Ok?

well ... (2)

lennier1 (264730) | more than 3 years ago | (#36932980)

I'm surprised the IRS hasn't already caught on to this.

If media companies they pick your IP they demand over $20,000 for every shared track which can be bought for a single dollar on iTunes, no matter if it was you who downloaded the song or someone else.

So, in return make Hollywood execs personally responsible for 20,000 times the amount of money companies are hiding from taxes through Hollywood accounting.

So whats next... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36932996)

All emails must be scanned and flagged if they contain 4 words in a row that match any book in print?

And I'd like an automated warning (1)

woodengod (863603) | more than 3 years ago | (#36933026)

that what movie studios distribute utter crap anyway.

Encrypted anonymized BT overlay network (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36933042)

I've been thinking about this for years. I'm sure it's been developed.

Just waht people need to see (1)

Dusanyu (675778) | more than 3 years ago | (#36933132)

A "Piracy" warning while downloading Free software.

Another sign (1)

failedlogic (627314) | more than 3 years ago | (#36933160)

Another sign ..... that bribery works to get what you want out of the legal and political system. No surprise.

What would be interesting is every American gave $1 to fight this lobby group. $300 mil would hire a nice team that could rid the MPAA and RIAA in short order methinks.

Only possible with deep packet inspection (1)

gweihir (88907) | more than 3 years ago | (#36933472)

The thing is that a BT tracker does not announce or even admit what files it tracks. The only way to get it to talk to you at all is to give it the crypto-hash of the file you want. This means any kind of detection what is offered by a tracker has to look into the data streams of the clients and recognize patterns of known files there.

A possible countermeasure would be that the tracker also gives an encryption key to each swarm participant and all data gets encrypted individually per swarm participant. Then even deep packet inspection is worthless.

Food DVD (1)

toxickitty (1758282) | more than 3 years ago | (#36933584)

I'm sorry RIAA, MPAA ,whateverAA no one can afford your shit anymore, if you haven't looked out front your door lately a lot of people are barely able to afford their food let alone some shiney discs you sell. I mean the USA is in big trouble right now so is half of europe, if we have a choice we're going with dinner > DVD thank you very much, please just go and fade away you're no longer relevant anymore.

Leeches. (1)

unity100 (970058) | more than 3 years ago | (#36933662)

This is what these have become now. leeches. nothing more. at an age where their middlemanship is not needed, they are not only forcing middlemanship on entire society, but also requesting control of very important lifelines of the society for ensuring their profit.

from this point on, it is insolence. not even self interest. because society, the people, does no retribution to these people in person, and they can buy out laws to defend themselves from law, their insolence has reached such a level.

ISP's, say no to tracking now, or expect a pile on (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36933734)

TO BIG ISP's. First tracking. Now bit torrent warnings. It will never end. Why are you creating tools of your own enslavement? Put down those twitch games, read a history book and learn to play chess.

The Control Freaks will never stop. This will eat into your bottom lines. Stop them at the bun. Hire a bunch of lawyers and lobbyists. Do it now. It will be cheaper in the long run

TO NERDS: Invent a card that sells for about 29.95 that hooks to an antenna on my roof. True peer to peer over RF. True Decentrailized. Nothing anybody can do about it. Actually, I think this just exists, all that is need is for the public internet to become too restricted.

The thing about torrents is (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36933844)

If I only download 50%- I don't necessarily have a usable 50% since I have scattered bits. Even 95% or 99% may not be a usable file. Moreover what if something is named either coincidentally or intentionally to sound like a movie or other copyrighted work. I believe they need to prove that a) you downloaded 100% of the file b) it is a copyrighted file (actual physical verification of the contents) c) that your ip is really your computer d) your computer really had you at it.

YOU FAIL iT (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36933964)

Availability is the real issue (1)

ripdajacker (1167101) | more than 3 years ago | (#36934008)

What about making it affordable to not pirate? In Denmark an average movie ticket costs $17 US, if you want the 3D version it can cost you up to $25. It's too expensive to buy a movie if you are only going to see it once, but rentals are a pain too. They cost ~$7 for a not-old movie, they cost time and they are usually on DVD with stupid unskippable commercials before the movie starts.

That raises the question: Why would I want to pay that much for a much worse product? Any downloaded move has, as dictated by scene rules, no anti-piracy propaganda/commercials before the movie. They are more readily available, and I can download a DVD movie in about 20 minutes and spare the trip to the video store.

Content should be more easily available, then I wouldn't pirate it. I stopped pirating games after I got steam, maybe their model is a good solution?

Bittorrent will not die easily, and if it does a replacement is inevitable as long as it is such a pain to get content.

It's our own fault (1)

kimvette (919543) | more than 3 years ago | (#36934016)

This whole thing is our own fault. Why? Because decades ago we stopped electing statesmen who understand that the marking of a good leader is a servant mentality, and instead we vote elitist career politicians into office.

Until we start voting sensibly and kick out every last bought-and-paid-for politician, we will continue to have no one to blame but ourselves.

Oh fucking great (1)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 3 years ago | (#36934250)

Another spam window to click away.

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