Beta

Slashdot: News for Nerds

×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Wall Street Predicts Merge of OS X and iOS

samzenpus posted more than 2 years ago | from the two-in-one dept.

Apple 258

gumbi west writes "One Wall Street analyst predicts what slashdot commenters have predicted for years, that iOS and OS X will merge into a single OS. However the analyst sees this happening because the iOS devices receive a substantial CPU boost from the quad core A6 which can power MBA and smaller devices while following 64-bit ARM processors can bring the remainder of the Apple lineup back to ARM under a single architecture."

cancel ×

258 comments

He's a Wall Street Analyst (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36978580)

Therefore, he's speaking out of his ass.

ARM shares are up by 80% (2)

improfane (855034) | more than 2 years ago | (#36978652)

...from a few years back

They're growing too:
http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=ARM.L#symbol=arm.l;range=1y;compare=;indicator=volume;charttype=area;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=off;source= [yahoo.com] ;

Hence I share your sentiment, this article is here purely to increase share prices. Who do you think benefits from that? There are vested financial positions behind most articles they print. They do not print real analysis.

Remember, the value of your investments can rise or fall.

Here's my take: (5, Insightful)

fyngyrz (762201) | more than 2 years ago | (#36978850)

OSX doesn't need -- and never has needed, and likely never will need -- the simplifications and limits that presently show up all over IOS. The current glitch in thinking over at Apple that has informed Lion with IOS like features is, I am confident, in error. On the other hand, the reason IOS needs these limits is because as of this point in time, the hardware itself is extremely limited... fast memory to support real multitasking, video (and main) memory to cache windows, the power budget presently required for same, small space to stuff the OS in, consequent loss of support for things like USB devices and complete bluetooth profiles... these things create IOS's limits; they're not there because they're a better way to do things, they are there because they are one of the only ways to do things, given the present environmental limits.

But electronics, if nothing else, follow a fairly predictable path of increasing compute and display power in less space with a lower power budget. So IOS can -- and therefore should -- leave its limits and its modality behind, bring the capability to do more complex work with it. OSX, on the other hand should continue forward -- not backwards into ISO land.

Finally, since access to Apple's App Store software library isn't open to competing tablet manufacturers, they (the competitors) are likely to strongly differentiate their tablets with USB, broad bluetooth support, a real filesystem and related file management the user can get at if they like, memory cards, and so on... putting some pressure on Apple to do the same (and thereby bringing over already existing OSX capabilities.) And of course consumers like more features -- the more they can do on an iPad, the better they will like it, as long as it doesn't get in the way of the things they could already do. That's the design challenge, but I don't think it is a challenge that Apple will have any trouble at all meeting.

So yeah, we will almost certainly see a merge, eventually. But hopefully it won't be IOS into OSX; just the opposite.

Re:Here's my take: (1)

Culture20 (968837) | more than 2 years ago | (#36978986)

The current glitch in thinking over at Apple that has informed Lion with IOS like features is, I am confident, in error.

We all believe it's in error, but some of us believe it will continue until the error prone management changes.

Re:Here's my take: (1)

stewbacca (1033764) | more than 2 years ago | (#36979614)

It's an error that is easily avoidable. You don't have to use Launchpad, and it is trivial to revert scrolling back (although I prefer the new way better, but it has nothing to do with iOS biases...just makes more sense to pull the information on the screen down by scrolling down, especially with the hidden menu bars).

The effort to include iOS like features is most likely to lure new users into the computer division of Apple, not the other way around.

Re:Here's my take: (0)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | more than 2 years ago | (#36979066)

I want to see how well OSX works when the ability to run things like scripts is removed and only TrustedTM executables are allowed to be run.

Re:Here's my take: (2)

hairyfeet (841228) | more than 2 years ago | (#36979332)

The problem with your thinking the current trends at Apple are a glitch is simple, Steve isn't there and unless/until Steve comes back I have a feeling you are gonna see "the return of the Pepsi guy" as far as bumbling incompetence goes.

It isn't just Lion either, look at how they burned and pretty much destroyed their small but quite lucrative market in movie/TV production by burning all the pros by replacing FCP with iMovie. Losing that market wasn't only stupid because of the money it generated, but even more than that it generated tremendous buzz for Apple by making them "the hip machine" which made the movies and TV shows you watch every day. You'd always see some director or producer on the behind the screens type shows in front of an Apple machine. Now that market is gone, switched to the competitors, and all that buzz is gone with it.

Then there is the "don't say malware and don't help the customer" stink, which wouldn't have happened under Jobs, hell I bet the folks here can think of plenty of others. As much as Ballmer is a sweaty used car salesman, throwing shit at a wall in a "me too!" fest hoping something sticks? It doesn't even compare to Apple without Jobs. You just have to give that man credit where credit is due, he is the one who cuts through the BS and has the vision to see what needs to be done.

Just let me leave with this little story I read by one of the guys who developed iDVD which i think illustrates why Apple has to have Jobs at the helm..."So we knew Steve was coming to look at what we were doing that day, so I had worked with my team to come up with all these mockups, with tabs for the various features and all the extras, when in walks Steve. He completely ignores what we've laid out and walks over to the whiteboard. He draws a box and says "This is the product. You drop a movie in the box and a single button comes up that says "burn" and that's it. that's what I want" and then he put down the marker and walked out while we stood there with our mouths open."

And THAT is why you HAVE TO have Jobs at the helm of Apple. Without him the team was thinking button fest and featureitis and BAM! Jobs walks in and cuts through the shit. Even though I'm not an Apple guy I will give that man credit, he has earned his place in that tiny circle of kings of their domain, where they can be named by just their last names, Jobs, Buffet, Gates, Ellison. Like 'em or hate 'em each one knew what they wanted and had the drive and big brass balls to get things done. If Lord forbid Steve kicks the bucket I have a feeling it'll be a seriously bad time at Apple, maybe even worse than the Pepsi guy.

Re:Here's my take: (1)

stewbacca (1033764) | more than 2 years ago | (#36979630)

It's a bit presumptuous to declare the pro video market "gone" after a month of a new release.

Re:Here's my take: (1)

monoqlith (610041) | more than 2 years ago | (#36979954)

What? As far as I know, the people who resent the new version of FCP (that's what you're referring to when you say iMovie, right?) are just doing something very simple: not upgrading. Much like with Windows XP/Vista/7, as soon as the re-write of FCP matures to the same or better level of functionality you will see upgrades. No market gone. An entire generation of film and TV producers have been trained on FCP and will continue to use it.

Don't worry (0, Troll)

bonch (38532) | more than 2 years ago | (#36978592)

Don't worry, even if every Mac ran iOS tomorrow, people would still make inaccurate marketshare comparisons between the entire Android platform of devices and just one single iOS device, the iPhone. With iPads and iPods included, iOS far surpasses Android in marketshare, but little facts like that get in the way.

Re:Don't worry (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36978648)

This isn't a discussion of market share, so why are you even bringing it up?

Re:Don't worry (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36978662)

See windmills; tilting at.

Re:Don't worry (1)

improfane (855034) | more than 2 years ago | (#36978694)

Because he loves Apple of course!

I'll just sit frowning at you guys on the sidelines and play snake on my Nokia 1661.

Re:Don't worry (1)

Gadget_Guy (627405) | more than 2 years ago | (#36979074)

I'll just sit frowning at you guys on the sidelines and play snake on my Nokia 1661.

There's an app for that [apple.com] !

Re:Don't worry (1)

DragonWriter (970822) | more than 2 years ago | (#36978714)

Don't worry, even if every Mac ran iOS tomorrow, people would still make inaccurate marketshare comparisons between the entire Android platform of devices and just one single iOS device, the iPhone.

The most common comparison I've seen is mobile phone marketshare comparing Android phones (of which there are many) to iPhones (of which there are several models on the market at any one time, not "one single device".)

This isn't the whole universe of Android devices (which include tablets, dual-boot laptops, and I think some dual-boot desktops) against a single iOS device.

With iPads and iPods included, iOS far surpasses Android in marketshare

What analytically useful market exists that includes iPads, iPods, and the iPhone as part of the same market?

Re:Don't worry (1)

mrxak (727974) | more than 2 years ago | (#36978842)

What analytically useful market exists that includes iPads, iPods, and the iPhone as part of the same market?

The app market. It's useful for software developers to see the entire platform when determining what to code/port their software for/to. Obviously they'll take other factors into account as well, but knowing how large various operating systems are, over all devices, is important.

So yes, the iPad, iPod Touch, and iPhone are all in a single market.

Re:Don't worry (1)

DragonWriter (970822) | more than 2 years ago | (#36979950)

The app market. It's useful for software developers to see the entire platform when determining what to code/port their software for/to. Obviously they'll take other factors into account as well, but knowing how large various operating systems are, over all devices, is important.

So yes, the iPad, iPod Touch, and iPhone are all in a single market.

You seem to be describing as the "app market" the "market of things that run software that developers might want to target". While that might be an analytically useful market, its not usually the market iOS to Android comparisons are made in, and it includes as major players things that aren't usually included in iOS vs. Android comparisons (like Windows.)

Though app developers, even on OS's that nominally support a wide range of devices of different form factors, frequently target specific form factors, so I'm not convinced that, even from a developers perspective, even the narrower "mobile app platform" market that includes tablets, phones, and phone-sized-non-phone devices is really a coherent single market.

And aside from form factor, there is also an important distinction for lots of developers between phone and non-phone devices.

Re:Don't worry (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 2 years ago | (#36978746)

There is one more than one iPhone. I think there have been four or five now.

Re:Don't worry (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36979564)

There's also been more than one Mac. However, I doubt very much that there's many IIci's that add to the market total.

There are +two+ currently supported iPhone models- three if you count those capable of running the latest IOS. There are +two+ currently supported iPad models. Both phones and tablets made by Apple, a single manufacturer.

Now, how many smartphone and tablet models are out there that are proudly emblazoned with "I'm an Android!" by how many manufacturers?

That's the point people are trying to make and the one that you're seemingly trying to wriggle out of.

Re:Don't worry (1)

Hognoxious (631665) | more than 2 years ago | (#36979620)

There are four or five ways to hold them, and six of those are wrong.

Re:Don't worry (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36978758)

Don't worry, even if every Mac ran iOS tomorrow, people would still make inaccurate marketshare comparisons between the entire Android platform of devices and just one single iOS device, the iPhone.

Dont think I've ever seen that. Normally people compare iPhones to Android phones (Android has the bigger marketshare)
  and iPads to Android tablets (iPad has the bigger market share). I don't think there are any Android devices comparable to iPods so I don't think there would be a very meaningful comparison but I guess you could say Apple 'wins' that by default, if that makes you feel good.

Re:Don't worry (1)

renegadesx (977007) | more than 2 years ago | (#36979976)

Most iPods dont use iOS.

Re:Don't worry (1)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 2 years ago | (#36979304)

That's kind of like making "inaccurate market share comparisons" between Macs and the rest of the computing industry.

Nothing new there...

Re:Don't worry (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36979962)

1) Offtopic, this is about MacOSX and iOS becoming a unified OS.
2) This is a discussion about the merging of MacOS & iOS
3) This is a discussion about the merging of MacOS & iOS
4) iPods don't use iOS except the iPod Touch which is more an iPhone without the phone part than an MP3/Video player. 5) This is a discussion about the merging of MacOS & iOS
6) If there were other iOS phones you would have a point but there isn't. Its like a Mac fan complaining that there are more Mac's sold than any model of Windows PC so saying Windows is more popular than MacOS is false
7) This is a discussion about the merging of MacOS & iOS
8) This is a discussion about the merging of MacOS & iOS

ARM laptops (1)

XanC (644172) | more than 2 years ago | (#36978596)

When will I be able to get an ARM laptop?

Re:ARM laptops (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36978686)

You already can.

Asus EeePad Transformer.
I have one. Its a tablet with a keyboard.
When docked its a laptop, when undocked its an Android 3.x tablet.

I'm just waiting for someone to port Linux to it.

Re:ARM laptops (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 2 years ago | (#36978784)

What needs to be ported?
It is already running linux the kernel, how hard can it be to run Debian-arm on it? I would imagine if you are ok just accessing it via vlc and running the same kernel you could do it now. Just like lots of people are doing on Android phones.

Re:ARM laptops (1)

MaskedSlacker (911878) | more than 2 years ago | (#36979354)

When docked its a laptop, when undocked its an Android 3.x tablet.

I'm just waiting for someone to port Linux to it.

You just made my head explode.

Re:ARM laptops (1)

ChunderDownunder (709234) | more than 2 years ago | (#36979626)

I've mentioned to a Apple-obsessed colleague that the 11" Macbook Air would be great machine if (a) it had a multi-touch and (b) a detachable screen, switching between iOS and OS/X seamlessly.

Response? "Oh, you need to buy 2 devices. The Macbook isn't a tablet and the iPad isn't a laptop."

Anyway, Steven Barker from NZ is porting Ubuntu to the transformer. Awaiting official nvidia support for drivers etc.

Re:ARM laptops (2)

renegadesx (977007) | more than 2 years ago | (#36980006)

I'm just waiting for someone to port Linux to it.

Priceless

Re:ARM laptops (1)

ozmanjusri (601766) | more than 2 years ago | (#36978750)

Google "Chromebook"

Re:ARM laptops (1)

Henriok (6762) | more than 2 years ago | (#36978930)

I did, and two came up: Samsung Series 5 and Acer AC700. Both powered by an Intel Atom processor. Not ARM.

Re:ARM laptops (1)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 2 years ago | (#36978820)

I've got two already. They came from here [genesi-usa.com] .

Re:ARM laptops (1)

lucian1900 (1698922) | more than 2 years ago | (#36978914)

I'm typing this on such a laptop. It's pretty good. Linux desktop ARM isn't quite mature (I'm still on maverick), but it's alright. Btw, It's my main machine.

Re:ARM laptops (1)

gumbi west (610122) | more than 2 years ago | (#36980030)

The analyst is claiming Apple will release an A6 MBA in 2012.

In fact its more that rumors (-1, Troll)

astrodot (2428728) | more than 2 years ago | (#36978624)

There are photos of A4 based laptop motherboard right here [aeonity.com]

Re:In fact its more that rumors (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36978666)

MODS please ban this guy

Re:In fact its more that rumors (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36979158)

Understand slashdot, you do not, young padawan.

Duh. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36978644)

They already are the same OS, essentially. They have the same core OS and the same basic application framework; only the top-level UI layer is different. Now that desktops are heading toward touch interfaces, it seems obvious that the UI layers would merge at some point.

Re:Duh. (4, Insightful)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 2 years ago | (#36978868)

AppKit on OS X 10.7 already adopts a lot of the event model from UIKit. The reason that Apple keeps them separate is the screen size. Designing a UI for a small touchscreen is very different from designing one for a laptop or desktop with a large screen and a keyboard and mouse. You can share 90% of the code between a Mac and iOS app, but you have to rewrite the UI. This was a good decision - I own a Nokia 770, and it has a lot of ported Linux apps, 90% of which are horrible to use because they were never designed for such a small screen. Sure, you can use AbiWord on it, but 60% of the screen is filled with UI widgets, with only a small sliver for your document. Meanwhile, Android apps are all designed for the small device, even if they're ports of desktop apps.

Re:Duh. (2)

mrxak (727974) | more than 2 years ago | (#36978888)

They already are the same OS, essentially. They have the same core OS and the same basic application framework; only the top-level UI layer is different.

Nobody ever said Wall Street understood the technology involved in the tech companies they are trading.

"Wall Street Predicts..." groan.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36979236)

The Wall Street morons can't even see a record tsunami coming in their own 'field'.

If this doesn't happen, whom do taxpayers have to bail out?

If that's where Slushpump gets its technical news now, it's over guys. Shut down the servers, Taco.

ANALysts (1)

david.emery (127135) | more than 2 years ago | (#36979938)

Nobody ever said Wall Street understood the technology involved in the tech companies they are trading.

What's worse is they don't understand the business end of the tech companies they are trading. Look at how poorly the "professional analysts" do predicting earnings, sales, etc, when compared to the independent bloggers: http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/07/20/another-apple-blowout-quarter-once-again-the-street-blew-it/ [cnn.com]

The consistently better results from the bloggers show "the data is out there," you just have to understand the company well enough to understand it.

I guess my perspective on the Wall Street analysts is the emphasis on the Anal part; that seems to be where their heads have been on Apple for at least the last several years...

Re:Duh. (1)

Hognoxious (631665) | more than 2 years ago | (#36979700)

Now that desktops are heading toward touch interfaces

I guess it's been long enough that gorilla arm syndrome has ridden off the pages of history into legend, and from there into myth.

What about virtualization? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36978674)

If devs can't run VMWare/Parallels so we can run linux/windows in Mac OS X, I really don't see Mac as being usable by anyone with work to do outside word processing or mac development.

Re:What about virtualization? (1)

Ossifer (703813) | more than 2 years ago | (#36978740)

And thus mac development will be limited to writing word processing apps?

In fact its more that rumors (-1, Troll)

applejunkie34 (2428736) | more than 2 years ago | (#36978682)

There are photos of prototype A5 based laptop motherboard right here [aeonity.com]
A5 is SOC used in iPad2

Re:In fact its more that rumors (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36978722)

GOATSE

Re:In fact its more that rumors (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36978736)

Above link is GOATSE!

Re:In fact its more that rumors (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36979078)

lmao i love the username too,

Cisco won't stand for it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36978708)

Apple cannot use the trademarked IOS term on non-phone/ipod platform

Never going to happen. (4, Insightful)

avihappy (1023761) | more than 2 years ago | (#36978728)

This is one of those moronic things that will never happen that are being continuously predicted by people who don't understand anything about usability. Apple knows you can't just shoehorn a "one size fits all" OS onto every device you make; that the ways people use different devices are fundamentally different. Keyboard and Mouse apps do not work well with a touchscreen, and vice versa. Just because Lion imported some of the UI features of iOS like hidden scrollbars and an application launcher does not mean they will merge; they are simply implementing ideas from one platform that have utility on another.

Re:Never going to happen. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36978874)

I would agree except we are talking about Apple. This is the same group that dropped Final Cut Pro and renamed iMovie Final Cut Pro and simply did a major upgrade and hoped no one would notice. Why I compare the two is Apple has a history of catering to the masses and ignoring the needs of the minority. If 90% are happy with an iOS platform they will drop the desktop environment like a hot potato.

Re:Never going to happen. (1)

mrxak (727974) | more than 2 years ago | (#36978950)

Except you can only create iOS apps using OS X. OS X and actual desktop computers aren't going anywhere.

Re:Never going to happen. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36979256)

Why couldn't Apple develop for iOS on iOS if they wanted to? I already have gcc on my jailbroken iPhone.

Re:Never going to happen. (1)

david.emery (127135) | more than 2 years ago | (#36979974)

... OS X and actual desktop computers aren't going anywhere.

Apple's growing market share on the high end of personal computers, particularly laptops, shows that, while the industry as a whole may not be going anywhere, Apple's part of that industry is showing substantial growth in all of (a) absolute sales; (b) proportion of the market; (c) profitability. (And I personally contributed to that growth last quarter and am very happy with my new machine...)

Re:Never going to happen. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36978952)

How does hiding 10 pixels worth of scroll-bars have any utility on a screen that is 1600 pixels wide?

Re:Never going to happen. (1)

stewbacca (1033764) | more than 2 years ago | (#36979684)

Yes. It encourages you to scroll things in the natural direction, as opposed to scrolling the scroll bars. If you can't see the scroll bar, you are more likely to "pull" the content on your screen "down", which is natural, as opposed to the wrong way we've been doing it for years...pull the SCROLL BAR down and the content goes up. Hide the scroll bar and that association goes away.

Re:Never going to happen. (1)

gumbi west (610122) | more than 2 years ago | (#36980044)

Interesting. So should scroll bars be the other way around then?

Re:Never going to happen. (1, Insightful)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 2 years ago | (#36979008)

You're totally wrong, influential sources inside Apple have already said that OSX and iOS will be converging, and it's only a matter of time. There's no reason it can't have multiple interfaces; hell, Apple has done that BEFORE with Classic Mac OS and the alternate launcher interface with the big stupid icons. Didn't last long, but that interface is now back on mobiles, with more eye candy.

What you are saying is contradicted by both Apple and reality.

Re:Never going to happen. (0)

sessamoid (165542) | more than 2 years ago | (#36979056)

You're totally wrong, influential sources inside Apple have already said that OSX and iOS will be converging, and it's only a matter of time. There's no reason it can't have multiple interfaces; hell, Apple has done that BEFORE with Classic Mac OS and the alternate launcher interface with the big stupid icons. Didn't last long, but that interface is now back on mobiles, with more eye candy.

What you are saying is contradicted by both Apple and reality.

Citations, please.

Re:Never going to happen. (2)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 2 years ago | (#36979768)

Just go back through stories on Slashdot and you will find stuff from the front page. But I'm not bored enough for that.

I can't even find info on the old stupid launcher. I think it was in OS 8. Maybe just 7. Might have been performa-only or something.

Re:Never going to happen. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36980216)

Then you're not bored enough to justify your argument.

OSX and IOS will share more in the future, but the tablet/phone device and the laptop/desktop computer are two very different beasts. The two OS's will not be the same. They already share a lot of the same code - but I assume that's not what is being discussed in the article.

That said, it's ENTIRELY possible Apple will think the traditional computer/laptop is redundant and drop their entire lineup in favor of specialized devices. At which point I'll be switching back to a PC and whatever OS makes the most sense for me personally.

Re:Never going to happen. (0)

c.r.o.c.o (123083) | more than 2 years ago | (#36979088)

This is one of those moronic things that will never happen that are being continuously predicted by people who don't understand anything about usability. Apple knows you can't just shoehorn a "one size fits all" OS onto every device you make; that the ways people use different devices are fundamentally different. Keyboard and Mouse apps do not work well with a touchscreen, and vice versa. Just because Lion imported some of the UI features of iOS like hidden scrollbars and an application launcher does not mean they will merge; they are simply implementing ideas from one platform that have utility on another.

From what I've been seeing, Apple's main interest at the moment is the consumer market. Developers, movie editors, servers all come a distant second. Why else would they cripple Lion server? Why would they make Lion a download only OS? Or why release a very incomplete Final Cut Pro X?

Granted, at the moment iOS cannot function as a full desktop OS. However it's been getting more and more features, and over time it will become an adequate substitute for general purpose computing. The success of the iPad shows that people like it, and would be willing to use it as a main device. This is crucial for Apple, because iOS has something OSX will NEVER have, that is a complete dependency to the App Store. Unless you jailbreak your device, you cannot install apps from alternate sources. We all know the large cut Apple takes from every app, book or doodah sold in the App Store.

If Apple were to try and implement a similar dependency in OSX, there would be a shitstorm overnight even if they tried it a few years from now. People expect OSX to allow them to install apps from whatever source, to tweak the system to some extent, and to generally own it. But if they attack the problem from the other end, by replacing OSX with iOS, not many people will even notice, let alone complain because they are used to the iPhone or iPad being locked in.

I would not be at all surprised if the next MacBook Air will be just an iPad with a keyboard running iOS. Two generations from now, low end MacBooks will also be running iOS, with only the most expensive and profitable MacBook Pros still running OSX. Is it likely to happen? I don't know for sure, but this is where things are pointing at right now with Apple trying to control the hardware, software distribution and entertainment distribution.

Remember that Apple, like every single other company out there, has the single purpose of maximizing its profits for its shareholders. Everything else is irrelevant. If you believe otherwise, you need to learn some history.

Re:Never going to happen. (3, Insightful)

avihappy (1023761) | more than 2 years ago | (#36979702)

Remember that Apple, like every single other company out there, has the single purpose of maximizing its profits for its shareholders. Everything else is irrelevant. If you believe otherwise, you need to learn some history.

And the way they do that is by making products people want to buy. Running the same UI on both a Mac, tablet, and phone will result in a sub par experience on all three devices and will surely drive away users. iPhones have no business running a windowed GUI, and Macs need to be able to have multiple windows up due to their expanded screens space. Macs use indirect interaction with highly precise input devices, while iPhones and iPads are direct interaction and have a fairly imprecise input mechanism. So many fundamentals are so different that merging the two UIs would make their devices desirable to no one. Not to mention the fact that iPhones have many more sensors than a Mac. If Apple wanted to pursue your strategy, they wouldn't do it by merging their operating systems. They would do it by locking down OS X while still keeping it as a separate platform.

Re:Never going to happen. (0)

LynnwoodRooster (966895) | more than 2 years ago | (#36980240)

From what I've been seeing, Apple's main interest at the moment is the consumer market. Developers, movie editors, servers all come a distant second. Why else would they cripple Lion server? Why would they make Lion a download only OS? Or why release a very incomplete Final Cut Pro X?

I've said it a few times before: Apple is a Consumer Electronics Phone marketing company. One single product - the iPhone - accounts for half their revenues and nearly 60% of their profits. EVERYTHING ELSE - iPads, iPods, Macs, iTunes, software, accessories, etc - accounts for the minority of their revenue and profits.

Apple has evolved in spectacularly profitable fashion to become a literal one-trick pony - the iPhone. They are losing marketshare in all other areas, nothing else has taken fire like the iPhone. So they are single-mindedly pursuing the iPhone metaphor across all business segments hoping it will ignite those other, smaller segments. But so far - nothing's caught.

Apple's big problem is going to be keeping the momentum in the phone market, or replacing it with momentum in another market. The iPhone is losing marketshare in the smartphone world, and its biggest share is in the US and EU markets - which are close to saturation. The growth markets for smartphones is China, South East Asia, and India - and Apple has very little penetration or positive growth in those markets. As the US and EU market growth for smartphones slows down, and that is coupled with Apple's slow loss of marketshare in those markets, they will face falling revenues and profits from the iPhone business.

So, make your other products as much like an iPhone as possible and hope people will grab on to it and keep them rolling for a few more years while Apple tries to identify another market for expansion.

Let's hope this means iOS becomes more like OSX (2)

Kethinov (636034) | more than 2 years ago | (#36978734)

I could live with this if it means iOS+OSX = no more iOS DRM: allow users to gain root and allow users to install apps from arbitrary sources.

You know, like OSX.

If instead it means iOS+OSX means OSX gains the aforementioned DRM, I'm done with Apple forever.

Re:Let's hope this means iOS becomes more like OSX (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36979224)

HTC announced recently that they are going to unlock their bootloaders. It's not root out of the box, but it's a hell of a lot better than having to exploit your own phone to get root.

Perhaps Apple will move this direction?

Re:Let's hope this means iOS becomes more like OSX (1)

rsborg (111459) | more than 2 years ago | (#36979366)

I could live with this if it means iOS+OSX = no more iOS DRM: allow users to gain root and allow users to install apps from arbitrary sources.

You know, like OSX.

If instead it means iOS+OSX means OSX gains the aforementioned DRM, I'm done with Apple forever.

You're dreaming. Even freedom-loving Google has, in absentia, allowed DRM (see locked bootloaders on Droid2, G2, etc) on devices bearing their brand. However, I don't think it makes sense to have a hybrid iOSX yet (if ever). What is more likely, is that the ARM target code for iOS will be backported into OSX and OSX 10.8 will likely run on ARM (and also Intel).

The ARM MacBook Air makes a shit-ton of sense... it will reduce costs, increase Apple's control over the hardware, lock more folks into the Mac App Store and Apple's XCode (since it would be their toolchain that can target OSX_ARM accurately), all without needing DRM (though they may still add it). It was pretty amusing to see that Fake Tim Cook already exists and commented about this on asymco a few months ago (cant find link to comment): "Wait till you see us put an A6 into the 2012 MacBook Air"

Re:Let's hope this means iOS becomes more like OSX (1)

am 2k (217885) | more than 2 years ago | (#36979394)

If instead it means iOS+OSX means OSX gains the aforementioned DRM, I'm done with Apple forever.

Unfortunately, right now it looks like it's heading exactly in this direction.

Right now, the Mac App Store is very dominant for Mac software, and it will become very restrictive in the near future (even more than the iOS store has ever been). As a Mac developer myself, I can speak from experience that having a product not in the Mac App Store is a death sentence for it, so I have to implement my apps in the way Apple allows me to, even when you could install it manually in theory.

The next step would be to make the Dashboard the default application instead of the Finder. This way, non-experts have absolutely no way to install any third party application from outside the Mac App Store. I can totally see that happen in 10.8.

Re:Let's hope this means iOS becomes more like OSX (1)

am 2k (217885) | more than 2 years ago | (#36979416)

Erm, I meant Launchpad instead of Dashboard. I always mix them up (and have disabled both).

Re:Let's hope this means iOS becomes more like OSX (1)

kangsterizer (1698322) | more than 2 years ago | (#36979500)

And tomorrow, pig will fly. Sorry, but they love DRM and lock ins.

Stupid and technically ignorant (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 2 years ago | (#36978774)

OSX and iOS share a common base, but it does not mean they will merge. Apple has stated repeatedly that touch screen devices are fundamentally different than desktops/laptops. While they may borrow UI features back and forth they are never going to merge into one unified device or GUI.

Re:Stupid and technically ignorant (1)

QuasiSteve (2042606) | more than 2 years ago | (#36978924)

Apple has stated repeatedly that touch screen devices are fundamentally different than desktops/laptops. While they may borrow UI features back and forth they are never going to merge into one unified device or GUI.

While they are 'fundamentally different', that doesn't mean that they're not poking at the foundations.

You mention borrowing UI features, so you might be including the recent decision for the scrollbar direction reversal - defended (as usual, the shill that he is) by David Pogue as being far more natural.. slide down to make the page slide down, who could argue with that logic - for it applies to the real world and whaddayaknow touch devices, too.

This despite the fundamental point of a scrollbar, vs scrolling a page, being that it tells you where you are in a documen. It, in essence, defines the viewscreen's position, rather than the underlying page.. There's even extensions for FireFox that will put little markers near the scrollbar for search hits on a page ( https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/scrollbar-search-highlighter/ [mozilla.org] ).

All of those conventions, however.. thrown out in Lion. Yes, you can still change it back - and maybe if enough people do so, Apple will revert this change in the next OS X. But I wouldn't count no it.

That change, like many before it, most definitely point to a continued merger of OS X and iOS paradigms.
Will they be merged into a unified GUI? Probably not. Most likely there will still be GUI- and input-related differences between a desktop and a tablet, just as there are between a tablet and a(n i)phone.
But that doesn't mean the underlying OS can't be the result of a complete merger.

Re:Stupid and technically ignorant (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 2 years ago | (#36979166)

slide down to make the page slide down, who could argue with that logic - for it applies to the real world and whaddayaknow touch devices, too.

Touch pads are touch devices. That's why that logic is applied ONLY when touch-based input is used.

The difference between the systems is one is interacting with the screen directly, the other is removed (and mandates a keyboard).

This despite the fundamental point of a scrollbar, vs scrolling a page, being that it tells you where you are in a document

The scrollbar, when visible, still tells you where you are in the document. And as noted you can turn it back on for permanent display if it's too weird for you to query by touch.

That change, like many before it, most definitely point to a continued merger of OS X and iOS paradigms.

It's like saying if I put a Type R badge on my car, within a month I'll be owning a type R.

There's no merger, just as I said a borrowing of good UI ideas back and forth.

Will they be merged into a unified GUI? Probably not.

And that right there is exactly what I am saying. You can't say in one breath the two paradigms are "merging" and then claim they are not.

Re:Stupid and technically ignorant (1, Insightful)

chispito (1870390) | more than 2 years ago | (#36979192)

Apple has stated repeatedly that

computer mice need only one button and no scroll wheel
the Power PC is a faster and better platform than x86
Apple is not going to release a netbook

Re:Stupid and technically ignorant (1)

stewbacca (1033764) | more than 2 years ago | (#36979742)

Apple has stated repeatedly that

computer mice need only one button and no scroll wheel

Hey thanks for the argument that hasn't been valid for 10 years! Have you even used a Mac?

And for the record, PowerPC was faster than the equivalent x86 (not sure how you can even argue otherwise) and Apple never released a netbook. What's your point?

Re:Stupid and technically ignorant (2)

Serious Callers Only (1022605) | more than 2 years ago | (#36979388)

OSX and iOS share a common base, but it does not mean they will merge. Apple has stated repeatedly that touch screen devices are fundamentally different than desktops/laptops. While they may borrow UI features back and forth they are never going to merge into one unified device or GUI.

I'm afraid your subject line is a better description of your post than the original speculation.

Apple has stated repeatedly all kinds of nonsense - for example originally HTML apps on iPhone were 'a really sweet solution' and the future of iOS, before iBooks was launched 'no-one reads any more', before the iPod Nano was launched 'no-one watches video on these tiny devices', Carbon was an equal partner and would always be supported, until it wasn't. etc, etc, etc. Most of their public statements are misdirection or misinformation, so if you're trying to work out what they are going to do, I wouldn't attempt to quote Apple pronouncements as if they are gospel or revealed truth. You can in fact usually see them do the exact opposite of what they claim they will. It is more instructive to look at what they have done with Lion: started to merge the UI of iOS and Mac OS.

There are two issues with merging iOS and Mac OS, neither of which are a deal-breaker:

* The two have a completely different (though substantially similar and overlapping) UI stack and set of APIs. iOS is the newer one and has been getting the most attention the last few years - draw from that what conclusions you will.
* The two do not have compatible UIs, and the desktop UI would not make sense on a touch screen and would be impossible to use. The touch screen UI and conventions however, works pretty damn well on a desktop, and you'll see a lot more of it on the desktop in future, as Jobs has obviously decided that overlapping windows, saving files, hierarchical folders, and the desktop itself, are yesterday's UI.

When I open launch control on Lion, or swipe around the UI, it feels very like using my iPad - I expect that feeling to continue to grow until NSView etc are simply deprecated, and the new shiny APIs are all available both on iOS and Mac OS, and then eventually we'll get to a point where they have one OS again. From a technical point of view, it's insane for them to maintain two very similar APIs indefinitely, particularly when they are becoming more and more similar. It is quite possible for them to merge them, and you might not like it, but Apple really don't care what you think.

Personally I think they are clearly going to merge the two, or rather iOS will subsume and replace what remains of Mac OS, as Cocoa did Carbon, and Carbon did Mac OS 9 - Apple is not afraid to completely throw away the rule book, piss off third party developers yet again, or completely contradict their recent statements with their actions. That's what makes them interesting, and somewhat dangerous.

I predict a merge too (3)

FudRucker (866063) | more than 2 years ago | (#36978792)

of Wallstreet and Skidrow

Re:I predict a merge too (-1, Troll)

Aimeng Jewelry (2397790) | more than 2 years ago | (#36980148)

Hello, nice to meet you... I recommend this http://www.aimengcrystal.com/ [aimengcrystal.com] for you! Aimengcrystal.com specializes in providing Swarovski Crystal Jewelry [aimengcrystal.com] , Natural Crystal Jewelry and Pure Silver Jewelry [aimengcrystal.com] - Cheap, Professional and High Quality!

no way (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36978798)

It's not what everyone has seen coming for at least the last 6-months

correct me if I'm wrong (1)

SocietyoftheFist (316444) | more than 2 years ago | (#36978910)

iOS is just stripped down version of Mac OS X with a different interface isn't it? So the real story is that they are moving towards the iOS GUI if this proves correct.

Re:correct me if I'm wrong (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36979986)

iOS is just stripped down version of Mac OS X with a different interface isn't it? So the real story is that they are moving towards the iOS GUI if this proves correct.

if osx lion didn't make this painfully obvious yet, i don't know what will.

In fact its more that rumors.... (-1, Troll)

applejunkie35 (2428744) | more than 2 years ago | (#36978918)

There are photos of prototype A5 based laptop motherboard right here [aeonity.com]

Since when has wall street made a solid prediction (1)

Targon (17348) | more than 2 years ago | (#36978956)

Wall street people are fairly clueless about anything in the realm of technology, so who cares what THEY think?

One World, One GUI (1)

kakyoin01 (2040114) | more than 2 years ago | (#36978980)

Apple has already clearly indicated this in its forecast with "features" like reverse scrolling. Apple, you'd be better off doing more development for (read: finding uses for) the iPad, than trying to make everything one and the same.

Will be the end of what little corporate uses mac (1)

Joe_Dragon (2206452) | more than 2 years ago | (#36979016)

Will be the end of what little corporate uses mac has left even the pure mac photo shop guy will look at windows then put up the limited file systems, app lock down and dumbed down apps and that is on top of paying $2,500 for a good system that LET'S use your own screen or pay about $800 + for a mini desktop + EXT DVDRW + EXT big HDD + Backup disk or for about $1000 or less get good PC + EXT backup disk.

also the price of photo shop / CS and the lack of upgrade pricing on the app store make at price now for CS 5.5 makes apples cut $390-$780 per sale now web hosting much lost a lot less then $390-$780 per sale for adobe to sell on there own.

WOW (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36979210)

I don't know what I'm more impressed with: The super long sentence you just did (that was all one sentence) or the number of grammatical mistakes you made in that long sentence. That should be posted to some sort of "best of" list because it'd be tough to top.

Wall Street Predicts Merge of OS X and iOS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36979148)

Who gives a sh#t

Steve Jobs said this a year ago -- so a duh (2)

GMGruman (1254692) | more than 2 years ago | (#36979240)

Apple CEO Steve Jobs basically said this when he announced Lion a year ago, so the fact that this financial analysis firm is predicting it a year later strikes me as worse than a non-story -- it's a moldy story that anyone who's been following the industry already knows. And both Lion and iOS 5 show this slow but deliberate merger in action. The real news is that Microsoft has decided to follow suit with Windows 8: http://www.infoworld.com/t/microsoft-windows/the-end-both-the-desktop-os-and-mobile-os-upon-us-168915 [infoworld.com]

Re:Steve Jobs said this a year ago -- so a duh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36980116)

[Citation Needed]

This Happens Every Five Minutes (1)

SuperMog2002 (702837) | more than 2 years ago | (#36979296)

OS X and iOS merging, Apple branded television, Macs switching to ARMs, subscription based iTunes, iTunes steaming, etc., etc. These things have been predicted by members of the media constantly for years, with subscription based iTunes being rumored for nearly a decade now. Why is this news? When drivers for Macintosh hardware start showing up in prerelease builds of iOS, then you've got a story worth printing. Until then, your argument has about as much weight as me saying they're switching to BeOS on Itanium based chips.

Re:This Happens Every Five Minutes (1)

stewbacca (1033764) | more than 2 years ago | (#36979758)

None of those will come true, which makes me sad, because I really want subscription based iTunes (ala Spotify).

What about Windows 8? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36979414)

Hasn't Microsoft already announced that Windows 8 will be doing essentially the same thing (Universal OS across desktop and mobile processors)?

Re:What about Windows 8? (1)

david.emery (127135) | more than 2 years ago | (#36980002)

Hasn't Microsoft already announced that Windows 8 will be doing essentially the same thing (Universal OS across desktop and mobile processors)?

But now Microsoft has to actually (a) deliver and then (b) be successful in both markets. It's a risk for Microsoft, what happens if Win 8 tanks on smartphones/tablets, or Win 8 turns out to be Another Vista?

In fact it's more than rumors. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#36979596)

There are photos of prototype A5 based laptop motherboard right here [aeonity.com]

Most logical time for it to happen? (1)

countertrolling (1585477) | more than 2 years ago | (#36979678)

When the iMac gets its touch screen.

Re:Most logical time for it to happen? (1)

david.emery (127135) | more than 2 years ago | (#36980060)

When the iMac gets its touch screen.

Actually, that's already happened, kinda. I was given an Apple "Magic Mouse" ( http://www.apple.com/magicmouse/ [apple.com] ) which is both a mouse and a touchpad device. For someone with 25+ years using mice, it's taking some getting used to and I'm still not quite convinced by the touch metaphor for what I view as primarily a keyboard oriented device (laptop/computer) as opposed to smartphone/tablet. But if you actually spend some time with a Magic Mouse or use a MacBook Pro trackpad (or the Apple external trackpad), it'll be clear that Apple has already delivered 'touch' on personal computers. (And of course iOS and MacOS X share a lot of the OS core and internal structure.)

If you have any interest in user interface design and/or hardware, regardless of what you think of Apple the company or Mac computers, you should probably spend some time playing with a Magic Mouse. It might not be revolutionary, but I think it's a quantum jump over conventional mice as an input device.

Makes Sense (though WS is late to the party) (2, Interesting)

Lord_Jeremy (1612839) | more than 2 years ago | (#36979864)

Normally I don't create new parent posts when there's already a lot of response, but I feel like just about everyone else who has posted has missed the mark. I'm a pretty hard-core Mac user. I'm certainly not an Apple fanboi - I'm quite unhappy with their new direction and I don't own an iPhone :P. Still, it has been pretty clear for at least a little while that iOS "computers" are Apple's goal. If you read the stories from the original Macintosh development team (check out some here [folklore.org] ), it's pretty clear that this is what Steve Jobs has wanted forever. His original dream of the Mac was an appliance, everyone having identical models that suit their needs in a generalized, mass produced way. Home computers running something resembling iOS are pretty damn close to that. And to be honest, as much as the prosumer in me screams in rage at it, it makes sense.

Just about everyone I know that went off to a state school after high school either already had or bought an Apple laptop. I know a ton of people that got MacBook Pros, for no reason other than they're middle class and have money. Most of them won't use the resources of that computer for anything even resembling its capabilities. For a large majority of the computer-using populace, an iOS-like operating system is much better suited to their use cases than any of the typical desktop OSes. I know the slashdot crowd hates to accept this, but the average consumer-level computer user clicks the same three or four shortcuts every day: web browser, music player, email client/instant messenger, and piracy software. Bringing a tablet or smartphone-style OS to their home computer is less of a reduction in as opposed to a better targeting of capabilities. The walled garden model provides a huge boost to security (I know people will cry bullshit about that but face it, less attack vectors means less attacks) and makes things drastically easier to use. I hear a lot more about people's grandmothers figuring out how to use iPads than how to use computers.

People in this thread have been talking about a reduce in hardware capability. Personally I wouldn't see that as a given. As hardware has evolved, so has software. Modern OSes and runtimes quite obviously have drastically higher overhead than of years ago. Again, personally I feel that in terms of efficiency operating systems have taken many steps backward. Regardless, MacBook Airs aren't by any definition low-end hardware, and the iPad 2 (and presumably iPhone 5) has an incredibly powerful processor for a handheld device.

I defined myself earlier as a "prosumer." I base that definition off the fact that I make heavy use of the Mac OS X and iOS development tools, in addition to Logic and Adobe software in freelance and hobbyist work. It troubles me greatly that very likely, the consumer Mac OS will soon lack the capabilities that I have always loved it for. My personal theory is that there will be a paid "Pro" upgrade to the next version of Mac OS X, ala editions of Windows. Hell, it'll probably be available on the Mac App Store like the Mac OS X Server upgrade is now. Although I certainly don't like where Apple (and personal computing as a whole) is heading, it really makes a lot more sense.

lol (5, Insightful)

smash (1351) | more than 2 years ago | (#36980042)

The complaints about IOS-ification of lion make me laugh. Apple have taken 3 major features and implemented them in lion: extensive sandboxing of apps (a good security practice), launchpad (meh, its optional - don't like it, don't use it) and auto save (which is a good thing).

And people are crying like its the end of the world.

OS X and IOS are ALREADY mostly the same. The places they are different are for very good reasons (resource usage, small touch interface). If apple wanted IOS and OS X to be the same (which, quite frankly would be retarded), they would have made them that way from the start.

I've actually upgraded to Lion and have lost precisely ZERO features vs snow leopard (well, except for rosetta, but that wasn't related to the implementation of IOS-isms and was already on its way out).

Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...